LTSP 5 is in minimal maintenance mode
The new LTSP is hosted at https://ltsp.github.io

IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 11 February 2019   (all times are UTC)

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06:09
<alkisg>
!nbd-client
06:09
<ltsp>
nbd-client: To try mounting the NBD image from the client initramfs: nbd-client 192.168.67.1 -N /opt/ltsp/i386 /dev/nbd0
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18:35
<markit>
hi alkisg, I would like to try kubuntu 18.04 for a school for the first time. But I would do a "pnp" install with 2 lans and inside a qemu vm (on a Proxmox server). My question is: does it work fine if the teacher is on a (fat) client himself?
18:35
How can I prevent students from printing, but not teachers? Have only teacher belong to lpr group (or something like that) but they still see the printer?
18:37
and finally, since the teacher has to do some work on the server (i.e. add/delete accounts, reset student home config files etc), how could he "log" in the vm from the client? What about a dual boot "teacher client" and second boot has a stand alone kubuntu with xrdp against the server (does xrdp work fine?)
18:37
end of questions :)
18:39
oh, one more thing... I remember that there was a sort of "standard config", like server name being "server" and thin client network being like 192.168.XY.0/24, but can't find a document that says so
18:42
ok, remove last question, I've just found it (shame on me) "LTSP expects you to set up a static IP of 192.168.67.1 for the internal subnet"
19:01
<alkisg>
markit: yes it works fine if the teacher is using a fat client
19:02
About allowing teachers but not students to print, google it in general, it's not specific to ltsp
19:02
You could say CUPS_SERVER=localhost per client, but not per user
19:02
To log in to the VM remotely, you can either use a thin client, or xfreerdp, or x2go, or vnc...
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20:16
<markit>
alkisg: I mean, you don't have ltsp on a VM in some schools? The advantage is that the school Proxmox server is always on, so I can update or whatever from remote at every time I like, and also Proxmox does a full scheduled backup, or I can create snapshots and test upgrades/updates etc.
20:17
so the "client with hd that can boot and connect" to the VM server could be the best way, so I can reboot the server or rebuild the client image without cutting my legs
20:18
wondering if xrdp works good enough, I will do some tests (so many times FOSS has a lot of options, but when you try them you find that are half-broken)
20:19
<alkisg>
markit: having a VM means maintaining 2 different installations
20:19
Most teachers don't want that
20:19
And also, it requires more ram, cpu etc
20:19
If the server reboots, /home for the clients is cut anyway
20:20
It doesn't matter much if the OS stays up once you lose your work and files
20:20
The performance of desktop is: fat client > thin client (=remote xorg) > x2go, freerdp > vnc
20:21
So fat is always the best way to go
20:23
<markit>
alkisg: btw, I've seen there is a 1.0 release of epoptes, I have to try it to see if solves the broadcast teacher's video bug recent version had with KDE (btw, I've completed the italian translation). I've also seen that Italc is resurrected and now more FOSS.
20:24
<alkisg>
Yeah, let's hope he continues maintaining it and doesn't stop after a few years again
20:24
<markit>
recently I'm very confused and upset about the network status of servers, I'm old school "/etc/network/interfaces" and "resolv.conf", 2 files and you dominated the networking setup
20:25
now I'm clueless, systemd is getting pervasive, netplan of ubuntu is a new thing with json config files, etc.
20:25
<mwalters>
yaml, not json
20:25
<markit>
mwalters: thanks
20:26
<mwalters>
"yet another markup language" :)
20:26
So, the cool thing about netplan is... regardless of netplan or networkd, it works
20:26
or at least that's the idea
20:26
eer, regardless of networkmanager or networkd, it works ;)
20:27
I found getting bonds up and running pretty easy w/ netplan
20:27
<||cw>
it's also very flexible, though the defaults are not friendly in a mixed OS environment
20:27
<markit>
yep, but you have a complex syntax that you can't remember, and a lot of layers... if you install dnsmasq how does it integrate with systemd-resolver? with /etc/network/interfaces configuration? and so on
20:27
<||cw>
major issue with windows DHCP that less than obvious how to fix
20:27
<mwalters>
yaml's syntax is pretty straight forward, which was the point of it
20:28
meaningful whitespace... no braces
20:28
<markit>
mwalters: well, maybe I'm getting too old, but syntax is becoming complex, and having "3-4 ways" to configure networking is not a "clean design"
20:28
<mwalters>
I'll say this: I had your initial reaction to it ;)
20:28
Then I was OK once I got over my initial "grumpy old man"ness and everything was OK ;)
20:29
<markit>
also from console I can't tell what dns is in use... and how to change "on the fly"...
20:29
with desktop too, nmcli and no clue
20:29
<mwalters>
I'll agree with you there... how to change config "on the fly" is unclear to me... supposedly: `netplan apply` does it... I've had mixed results
20:29
<markit>
mwalters: yep, but still netplan is, AFAIU, very "ubuntu specific"
20:30
<mwalters>
I generally resort to using `ip` on my manjaro laptop
20:31
I attribute most of *my* issues to not thoroughly reading the docs, though ;)
20:31
I got it working well enough and moved on
20:32
<markit>
mwalters: yes, but you have to learn "if you are using systemd-whatever then...", " else if you are using netplan then..." but what if I've both installed? Which prevails? And if I remove one?
20:32
<mwalters>
You ever play jenga? ;)
20:32
<markit>
and if I install dnsmasq, does it work fine? Is the packager responsability to make it work, or mine?
20:33* markit googling for jenga
20:33
<markit>
lol
20:33
<mwalters>
in reference to "remove one"
20:33* markit loves ranting on IRC
20:34
<mwalters>
Yeah, dunno. I haven't gotten into really advanced configs yet. I have ubuntu server/networkd on my VM hosts... doing bonding using netplan... my LTSP servers are ubuntu-mate 18.04 w/ networkmanager... non fancy configs there, though
20:34
It seems to work well enough
20:34
When I was migrating all my boxes, I had a terrible time getting bonding to work with networkmanager & netplan
20:35
I hade mate on my laptop and wanted to temporarily host some freepbx VMs on there and it just didn't work right and I never did figure it out
20:35
bridging, not bonding
20:35
bonding w/ network manager & netplan on a desktop install
20:36
I'm sure it was due to my inexperience... and never *really* understanding how networking worked on linux anyways ;)
20:36
<markit>
mwalters: do you have ltsp with a 2 nic config? Do you config also client lan with network manager? Does bonding with NM work?
20:36
<mwalters>
Naw, I don't do the 2 nic thing
20:37
I work in a non-profit, not education. My usecase is different :D
20:37
<markit>
I'm wondering what advantage I would have with 2 nics setup in my VM
20:37
<mwalters>
(e.g., non-lab/non-classroom environment)
20:38
My guess would be not having to worry about vlans/subnets with more than 1 dhcp server
20:38
E.g., you're making your own little broadcast domain
20:39
With a VM you have this strange situation where you need to create the network physically and virtually, though
20:39
that sounds complicated ;)
20:40
I have 4 separate LTSP servers, all on 4 separate networks (and 4 separate physical buildings)
20:40
I just use dnsmasq on the LTSP box for dhcp
20:40
*boxes
20:41
<markit>
mwalters: have a look at Proxmox project, I find virtualization to be the best thing since beer invention for our sysadmin
20:41
<mwalters>
My LTSP servers are virtualized w/ libvirt/qemu/kvm
20:41
<alkisg>
(10:26:47 μμ) mwalters: eer, regardless of networkmanager or networkd, it works ;) => https://xkcd.com/927/
20:41
So now ltsp will need to support 4 different things :D
20:42
(including ifupdown, /etc/network/interfaces)
20:42
<mwalters>
alkisg: I need one of those "Days since ___" flip charts for this comic ;)
20:42
<alkisg>
Hehe
20:42
The good thing about netplan is that it's made by ubuntu, so it'll die along with snaps not very far in the future
20:43
<mwalters>
lololol
20:44
<alkisg>
If debian froze in a constant date every two years (and released when it could), and had a proper live cd image/installer, I think i'd have already switched to it...
20:44
<markit>
I'm scared by systemd, is too pervasive, wondering why wants to manage networking also, and dns
20:44
<alkisg>
If systemd grows up to cover everything except for the desktop apps, it'll be great
20:45
No more distro specific chaos
20:45
<mwalters>
...I watched a good presentation on "why systemd" over the weekend
20:45
in a nutshell: the nature of a "daemon" has changed drastically over the last 25 years
20:45
<markit>
yep, and just a single point of failure with maybe a huge system registry with all settings in one place in binary format... oh, hold on, we already have it! Win rulez
20:46
<mwalters>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo
20:46
well
20:46
the title is a bit snarky ;)
20:47
<alkisg>
markit: binary settings are the best, yes
20:47
Better performance. That's why dconf uses them.
20:47
<mwalters>
I found the history lesson interesting, if nothing else
20:47
there might be some nsfw language in there, I can't recall
20:47
<alkisg>
single point of failure => not sure what you mean there; why, sysvinit wasn't a single point?
20:48
Isn't the kernel a single point?
20:48
<markit>
if dnsmasq is buggy or has any problem, I can use bind
20:48
<mwalters>
do people have dnsmasq and bind9 installed on the same system?
20:48
<alkisg>
If dnsmasq AND bind developers worked on the same system, it would have less bugs than both of them
20:49
Same for the kernel, same for init systems, same for almost any software
20:49
<mwalters>
if people made good software, the software would be good ;)
20:49
<markit>
mmm with foss if you merge 2 teams, you don't double the energy and improve the development I think
20:49
<mwalters>
my sarcasm might get lost in translation there
20:49
<alkisg>
Oh now they're trying to make people with software :P (genome editing)
20:50
<mwalters>
https://xkcd.com/2030/
20:50
speaking of software
20:51
Is there one of those "internet laws" for XKCD, yet? Something like, "for any conversation occuring over the internet, there is a relevant XKCD comic"
20:52
<alkisg>
I think its quality has degraded though
20:52
<mwalters>
I'm sure it's difficult to keep pumping them out at the rate he does
20:53
I bought my daughter his "thing explainer" book when she was 7ish, she loved it
20:54
I suspect a significant portion of his work has a US bias that I don't quite notice
20:54
As far as social commentary goes
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21:28
<markit>
Sleep time, thanks to everybody and good night :)
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