IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 1 August 2008   (all times are UTC)

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00:06
<btil>
anyone on now?
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01:28
<epoxy>
haha...i had lstp on /ajoin at the house for a month and didn't even realize
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08:19
<stgraber>
ogra: http://pastebin.com/fd167b29 that'll remove the error message when no /etc/exports file exists
08:20
<ogra>
stgraber, thats in the code
08:20
since a century or so
08:20
<stgraber>
?
08:20
<ogra>
oh, not the -sq
08:20
<stgraber>
yeah, I added the -sq
08:21
<ogra>
right, i'll add that, thanks
08:21
<stgraber>
np, I hate useless output in .postinst :)
08:22
<ogra>
i'm wondering why we didnt get the error before
08:23
we avent had exports since gutsy
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08:35
<Gadi>
ogra: do you know any of the guys working on the ubuntu-eee stuff?
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08:36
<ogra>
Gadi, there is no such thing :) that might be a community effort ... canonicl has the netbook-remix
08:37
that thats only for OEMs afaik
08:37
<Gadi>
there is definitely a community project of that name
08:37
:)
08:37
<ogra>
but the n-r packages are public
08:37
(its essentiall just four packages replacing the default desktop with something adjusted for the small screen)
08:38
<Gadi>
http://www.ubuntu-eee.com/index.php5?title=Main_Page
08:38
these guys work on getting all the drivers and such right, too
08:38
<ogra>
https://launchpad.net/~netbook-remix-team/+archive
08:39
we are trying to get an ubuntu-mobile seed ready in the mobile team that shuld include all the changes from netbook (to make gnome apps suitable for the smaller screensize)
08:39
if they fix drivers that should go into the main kernel
08:40
either the ubuntu package or where suitable directly to upstream
08:40
<Gadi>
right
08:40
I think its more of finding, including, and configuring things out of the box
08:40
<ogra>
their screenshot looks a bit like my classmate desktop :)
08:41
<Gadi>
http://www.ubuntu-eee.com/index.php5?title=EeePC_901
08:41
<ogra>
my classmate stuff (including the imagebuilder and installer are public)
08:41
<Gadi>
I am keeping an eye on what doesnt work just yet ;)
08:41
<ogra>
well, just wait until fall and yu can buy devices with UNR preinstalled :)
08:42
and likely cheaper and more powerful than eee
08:42
<Gadi>
hehe
08:42
<ogra>
(and in my opinion way more beautiful as well)
08:42
<Gadi>
well, I really like this baby so far
08:42
<ogra>
oh, you got an eee ?
08:42* Gadi nods
08:42
<Gadi>
just came this week
08:42
the 901
08:42
<ogra>
poor you :P
08:43
<Gadi>
I wanted it before my vacation at end of august
08:43
:D
08:43
I intend to put ubuntu on it eventually
08:43
but, you guys are so damn slow :P
08:43
<ogra>
ah, yeah, the cool stuff is unlikely ot be out by then i guess
08:43
its not *us guys*
08:44
its our OEM dept. ... i have nothing to do with them and they work with the OEMs who have their own plans i guess
08:44
all i know is that at some point devices with UNR will appear in the shops ... and the HW i saw is beyond eee
08:45
in design and powerfulness
08:45
<Gadi>
i dunno, my 901 is pretty nice hw wise
08:45
and it actually exists ! :P
08:45* ogra doesnt really like the keyboards
08:45
<Gadi>
thats because you have gorilla fingers
08:46
<ogra>
well, i even like the mechanics of the cmpc more
08:46
the eee keys feel like they would just fall off if i used them for a while
08:46
it feels pretty cheap to type on
08:46
<Gadi>
they get better with each rev
08:46
the 901 feels solid
08:47
you've only seen the first-gen stuff
08:47
and first-gen classmate is pretty dorky looking, too
08:48
<ogra>
yeah
08:48
second is only slightly better
08:48
third will overtake eee even
08:50
the classmate was simply the first of its kind ... nearly a year older than any other of them ... its sad that nobody credits it for being the base they all stole of
08:50
beyond that its still slightly ugly :)
08:50
but getting there
08:50
<Gadi>
well, the Apple Newton came out over a decade ago
08:50
;)
08:51
<ogra>
it didnt cause a mass change in HW though
08:51
<laga>
bah, the OLPC is *really* innovative. ;)
08:52
<ogra>
innovative in slowness ? or unusability ?
08:52
<laga>
hah
08:52
<ogra>
it just includes a lot of innovative technology that wont be used under XP at all :P
08:52
<laga>
burn. :)
08:53
<Gadi>
heh - the mass hw change was not cmpc's fault - it was all timing
08:53
<ogra>
and sadly has really bad specs
08:53
thast where they burned themselves imho
08:53
<Gadi>
we revisit the same old ideas every decade in computers
08:53
<ogra>
putting in a bit more ram and a slightly faster CPU would have gottem them where they had planned to
08:53
<Gadi>
its economics that decides what makes for a market change
08:54
<ogra>
no, its not
08:54
at least not in case of the netbooks
08:54
there it was actually the consumers making the change
08:54
and the market followed
08:55
classmate was presented but not marketed ... then via showed a netbook as proof of concept design last computex ... they never went to market with that (i wonder who got fired for it when the eee took off :P )
08:56
and then asus took the idea and founded the success for all the netbooks we have today
08:56
<laga>
i'd rather have intel hardware than VIA hardware ;)
08:56
<ogra>
but masses of people buying the eee made the manufacturers listen up and join the hype
08:57
<Gadi>
and the only reason they could build any of it to make it attractive to consumers is because the cost of SSD has dropped dramatically
08:57
which, in turn, is due to the semiconductor industry
08:57
<ogra>
indeed
08:57
<Gadi>
which coincided at this point in time
08:58
<ogra>
and people buying digita cams
08:58
<Blinny>
UNR?
08:58
<ogra>
ubuntu-netbook-remix
08:58
<Gadi>
had the Apple Newton had access to 20GB SSD over a decade ago and 1.6G atom processors, it would have introduced the netbook
08:58
<ogra>
Blinny, http://tombuntu.com/index.php/2008/06/03/canonical-announces-the-ubuntu-netbook-remix/
08:59
<Gadi>
we're all just drifting along the same river
08:59
<Blinny>
Dig.
09:00
I dug the newton. Handwriting recognition was the shizzle back in '96.
09:00
<Gadi>
my point is, I dont see the netbook as a revolution - just an evolution
09:01
<ogra>
its a backwards revolution actually
09:02
suddenly people are not after the biggest and most powerful stuff anymore
09:02
thats the noticeable thing here
09:02
<laga>
well, back then you needed the latest hardware to be able to run windows nicely
09:02
<ogra>
and what will get linux forward everywhere
09:02
you still do
09:02
<laga>
nowadays, hardware is much more powerful. and these netbooks usually run windows xp or linux
09:02
<Gadi>
well, intel learned that long ago, when the customers stopped caring about cpu speeds
09:02
<laga>
ogra: yeah, windows vista
09:02
<ogra>
i dont want to se vista on the first gen eee
09:02
<laga>
but who uses that? ;)
09:05
<ogra>
MS hopes everyone soon :)
09:11
<Blinny>
Well with things moving to the cloud, PCs won't need to be more powerful. Sysadmins won't be needed (unless you work for google, RH, canonical, or amazon).
09:11
<laga>
that's a scary thought
09:11
<ogra>
more powerful means you also burn more power ...
09:12
so less powerfull and the new "green thinking" isnt actually a bad thing
09:12
sysadmind will still be needed
09:12
software will evolve and change etc
09:13
<Blinny>
notebooks/PCs/phones will merge, and become appliances. If they break, replace them.
09:14
<ogra>
s/replace/recycle/ ;)
09:14
<Blinny>
rightO
09:15
<laga>
recycle? yeah, let's ship them to some remote place in china :(
09:16
<ogra>
or to something like freegeek :)
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09:53
<warren>
ogra: did anyone i mplement the changes to S01-localapps that was talked about?
09:54
<ogra>
warren, i thought you wanted to do that, i have no prob doing that today though
09:54
<warren>
I'm trying to fix nspluginwrapper now
09:55
<laga>
ogra: for that LTSP SRU i'd like to do, do you want a ready-to-upload debdiff or just the patch to the mythbuntu plugin?
09:56
<ogra>
warren, ok, i'll add the fixes during the day
09:56
laga, either way is fine ... debdiff makes it easier for me though
09:56
<laga>
ogra: great
09:57
<warren>
ogra: although xrexecd is still broken
09:57
<ogra>
indeed
09:57
but one step at a time
09:58
i guess our release dates dont differ much, so we both have interest in getting it fixed in time (of which we still have plenty atm)
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10:27
<laga>
ogra: do you know that ltsp-build-client in intrepid is broken?
10:27
?
10:27
oops, too many question marks :)
10:27
<ogra>
using yesterdays package ?
10:27
<laga>
ogra: it's trying to cp /usr/share/ltsp/scripts/start-stop-daemon after diverting..
10:28
let me check the version
10:28
ogra: 5.1.14-0ubuntu2
10:28
from 28 of july
10:28
<ogra>
3 has the fix
10:28
<laga>
gah. sorry for the trouble then
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10:54
<mib_3hs4d5>
can anyone tell me how to change the default session for ldm (from gnome to openbox), and enable autologin under ubuntu?
10:54
I tried editing /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf and /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf, but that didn't work
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10:55
<warren>
under ubuntu you need to use alternatives somehow
10:55
I don't have ubuntu so I don't know excatly how
10:56
<mib_3hs4d5>
ok, thanks
11:00
one more thing, where's the best place to look for up to date LTSP documentation? Everything I find seems to be out of date or incomplete - version 4 or earlier
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11:11
<Egyptian[Home]>
does anybody know what version of ltsp is k12fedora using?
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11:23
<Gadi>
Egyptian[Home]: k12ltsp is LTSP 4.2 based
11:24* Gadi waves to Egyptian[Home] - and reflects on the long time no speak
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11:33
<warren>
Egyptian[Home]: https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/
11:33
Egyptian[Home]: please give this a try instead
11:39
<laga>
ogra: grr, looks like mirrors aren't up to date yet wrt ltsp. although packages.u.c has the latest upload
11:39
<ogra>
you should really not use mirrors for source packages if you develop
11:40
it will be up to date in the main archive
11:40
but note that i did to uploads today as well
11:40
*two
11:41
<laga>
i'm not developing, i'm just testing right now
11:41
<Gadi>
ogra: btw - yesterday I deployed LTSP on hardy with ActiveDirectory and pam_mount - definitely could have used that ssh -O patch
11:41
;)
11:42
<ogra>
i thought that didnt work ?
11:42
<Gadi>
you know me, there's always a hack
11:42
<laga>
ogra: archive.ubuntu.com doesnt have anything newer than ubuntu2
11:42
<Gadi>
many of which open security holes
11:42
<ogra>
oh
11:42
<laga>
ogra: i'll build the package myself
11:42
<Gadi>
but, there's always a hack
11:42
:)
11:42
<ogra>
heh
11:44
<Gadi>
pam_mount on ubuntu has its own issues, because the unmounting happens as the user (not uid 0)
11:44
no matter how you slice it
11:44
<ogra>
that has nothing to do with pam_mount though
11:44
<Gadi>
right
11:44
thats ssh
11:44
<ogra>
yeah
11:44
<Gadi>
evidently on ubuntu only, too
11:44
<ogra>
which does that on purpose
11:45
no, debian as well
11:45
<Gadi>
other distros dont have that security measure
11:45
ah
11:45
<ogra>
the ssh packages are identical
11:45
well, then other distros diverge from upstrem policy
11:45
<Gadi>
indeed
11:46
<ogra>
the separation is done upstream
11:46
<Gadi>
its a scary world out there
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11:51
<gbolte>
anyone know if gnome dose any logging on startup?
11:52
<ogra>
in ~/.xsession-errors usually
11:52
<gbolte>
alright
11:52
thanks
11:52
:)
11:52
<ogra>
btil, hey
11:54
<gbolte>
so what if that file dose not exist
11:54
:/
11:54
<ogra>
then your distro mangles it or gnome didnt start yet
11:54
<gbolte>
:/
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11:55
<ogra>
do you have the file in working sessions ?
11:55
(to rule out that suse doesnt fiddle with defaults here)
11:55
<gbolte>
lemme make sure
11:56
ugg
11:56
no
11:56
its missing from mine as well
11:56
<ogra>
well, then find out hos suse does per session logging i guess
11:56
*how
11:57
<warren>
ogra: your firefox maintainer is the same person as your nspluginwrapper maintainer?
11:57
<ogra>
we dont actually have maintainers :)
11:57
<gbolte>
this is going to require an aggonizing visit to #suse
11:57
<ogra>
we have a mozilla team
11:57
and asac is the lead of that
11:57
<gbolte>
er agonizing
11:58
<ogra>
nsplugnwrapper is maintained by the ubuntu-core-dev team
11:58
(which includes me)
11:58
(but asac as well)
11:59
the rule is: "who touched it last is responsible untl someone else touches it"
11:59
so you wont see me touching FF ;)
11:59
<gbolte>
rofl
12:00
<ogra>
unless its a real emergency
12:00
but if you have any nspluginwrapper fix i should push i'm fine to do that
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12:27
<stgraber>
ogra: any reason for using passthrough for debconf instead of noninteractive ? (it creates some noise that noninteractive would avoid)
12:30
<ogra>
the cd installer
12:31
which doesnt work properly yet though ... but passthrough makes it possible to redirect to a different fd to get the progressbar proper
12:31
and its only noise
12:31
<stgraber>
indeed
12:32
oh, btw looks like vmmouse has been fixed, I now have a working mouse in my kvm
12:34
<laga>
ogra: where can i find the LTSP packages for ubuntu in DVCS? looks like lp:~ogra/ltsp/intrepid-packaging hasn't been updated in a while
12:37
<ogra>
apt-get source ltsp
12:37
i need to merge vagrants branch manually first that requires some time i dont have atm
12:37
<laga>
heh, chicken-egg problem if the mirrors haven't been updated ;) but it's shown up in the meantime
12:38
<ogra>
the above branch is just a single checkin
12:38
<laga>
heh, chicken-egg problem if the mirrors haven't been updated ;) but it's shown up in the meantime
12:38
oops, sorry.
12:39
<ogra>
you mean, chicken-egg problem if the mirrors haven't been updated ;) but it's shown up in the meantime ?
12:39
<laga>
yeah, that's what i meant to say
12:39
thanks
12:39
<ogra>
:)
12:40
<laga>
i hope AUFS is in good shape in intrepid. i've heard some complaints about the live disks being broken
12:40
<ogra>
really ? i havent
12:40
and cjwatson either, we just discussed it in the big intrepid release meeting yesterday
12:40
(you should have attended :P )
12:41
<laga>
i guess i should get more involved :(
12:41
but it's great if there are no problems with it
12:41
<ogra>
i didnt see any in ltsp either
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12:43
<stgraber>
ogra: there was a bug with aufs and the livecd :)
12:43
<laga>
stgraber: got any details?
12:43
<ogra>
oh ?
12:44
<stgraber>
I don't think it's really been fixed in fact. It's be work-arounded by fixing dpkg not to trigger it
12:44* ogra wonders why nobody mentioned it yesterday when the question about ufs stability was discussed
12:44
<ogra>
*aufs
12:44
<stgraber>
basically dpkg was doing chroot() and then another operation without first doing chdir("/"). and made the kernel to panic
12:44
<laga>
i seem to remember a thread on aufs-users where aptitude would hang
12:44
oh
12:44
no, that was a different thing
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12:45
<ogra>
we dont use aptitutde apart from one bit in d-i
12:45
<stgraber>
* src/help.c: chdir("/") after chroot(). Not only is this good practice,
12:45
but it works around bug #251223
12:45
-- Matt Zimmerman <mdz@ubuntu.com> Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:31:52 +0100
12:46
<ogra>
i would actually not blame aufs for broken behavior of dpkg
12:46
<laga>
i wonder why it's not possible to do http://bugs.launchpad.net/<bug-id>
12:46
<stgraber>
hmm, in fact it looks like aufs doesn't seem to be the cause of it any longer :)
12:46
<laga>
grr
12:46
<ogra>
because you need a project name
12:46
<stgraber>
laga: launchpad.net/bugs/<bug-id>
12:46
<ogra>
or that
12:46
<laga>
ooh, nice. thanks
12:46
<ogra>
LP is more than bugtracking
12:47
and tracks for hundrets of upstream projects beyond doing ubuntu tracking
12:47
<stgraber>
oh and the bug has been marked fix released, great :)
12:48
<laga>
heh, apparmor was the cause
12:54
gah, ltsp-build-client is currently broken due to unresolved dependencies :(#
12:55
<stgraber>
ah ? worked fine here less than an hour ago
12:56
<laga>
http://pastebin.ca/1089957
12:56
i'm on intrepid, of course
12:56
<stgraber>
ogra: heh, "User account has expired" ?? What's happening with my root account :)
12:57
<laga>
stgraber: are you using intrepid?
12:59
<ogra>
stgraber, sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd -u
12:59
before setting a passwd
13:02
<stgraber>
ogra: hmm, ok but that was with --prompt-rootpass
13:02
laga: yeah
13:02
<laga>
bah, i guess i'll retry later. development releases are frustrating sometimes
13:02
<ogra>
right, that still doesnt unlock the account
13:03
<laga>
stgraber: you must be lucky - or somethjing is broken at my end ;)
13:03
<ogra>
stgraber, i guess we shuld just add the passwd -u call to the plugin
13:04
<stgraber>
ogra: sounds like a good idea yes
13:04
<ogra>
oh
13:05
well, the 095-rootpass plugin seems buggy
13:06
<warren>
I turn that plugin off
13:06
<ogra>
it doesnt take ROOTPASS=prompt into account for after-install
13:06
so it will always be locked
13:06
even if you tell it to unlock :P
13:06
warren, i find it essential
13:06
but indeed we dont want bugs :)
13:06
<warren>
My chroot process disables it
13:06
chroot creator
13:07
sigh
13:07
so the fix to xulrunner actually changes the ABI
13:07
so I have to truly understand it to fix nspluginwrapper
13:07
the old ABI was actually broken
13:07
<ogra>
asac wil be back next week, he understands that stuff very well
13:07
<warren>
has he submitted patches for nspluginwrapper?
13:07
<ogra>
so if you have gotten nowhere until then lets just ask him
13:08
<stgraber>
ogra: I added a passwd -u before the passwd root in 095-rootpass, that should work
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13:12
<ogra>
stgraber, well, i wrapped an if statement around the after-install call
13:12
and pushed :)
13:16* warren tries Fedora 10 as client chroot...
13:19
<ogra>
warren, ldm fix pushed
13:19
<warren>
ooh, can't test it yet
13:19
blew away my known good chroot
13:19
<ogra>
i need to think more about the rest of S01-localapps ... there is a lot stuff i dont really like in it
13:20
<warren>
I'd want xrexecd to actually work before we think about cleanups
13:20
<ogra>
but at least the home mounting should work now
13:20
wel, no home, no xrexecd testing ;)
13:21
i will think how to get proper temporary overlays for group and passwd ... i'm not really happy about the fact that we leave so much sensible info around after logout
13:22
it should vanish automatically if ldm restarts
13:23
<warren>
the plan was to wipe out the changes after login
13:23
there should be a copy of passwd and group
13:23
that's why we added a directory
13:23
<ogra>
right
13:23
i see that
13:24
<warren>
I guess we don't have a way to do it yet...
13:24
however
13:24
the code could be like:
13:24
If the copy exists, wipe out whatever we have
13:24
so the next ldm will reset it
13:24
<ogra>
yeah
13:25
<warren>
this could be done easily after gadi pushes his init.d patches
13:25
<ogra>
prob is that you cnt do that with these potential multiple ldms we dont have yet :)
13:25
<warren>
however writing it in C would be faster...
13:25
is it really worthwhile to support multiple ldm?
13:25
<ogra>
not really
13:25
<warren>
we can't do local apps with multiple ldm's
13:25
securely
13:25
<ogra>
but currently you can start more than one
13:26
works fine on ubuntu
13:26
so as long as we dont block that we have a prob
13:26
scottie has bean a big promoter of that
13:26
<warren>
I don't see how we can make this work with local apps
13:26vagrantc has joined #ltsp
13:27
<ogra>
with the nss thingie that allows you to use non standard passwd and group files
13:27
thas way you can use er ldm files
13:27
*per
13:27
but i dont like that either
13:28
<warren>
but two different users can't have a different overlay
13:28
<ogra>
i have no solution yet though
13:28
<warren>
you could login to two different ssh servers
13:28
<ogra>
right
13:28
i will meditate over it on the weekend, lets see what i come up with
13:29
worst case we can really just restrict to a single ldm
13:29
if someone wants multiple ones he needs to come up with a patch first :P
13:30
btw, the x2go gusy seem t be intrested to have support for ther client in ltsp :)
13:30
what they do is similar to nx
13:31
but 100% free and doesnt use its own xlibs copy afauk
13:31
*afaik
13:32
they have debian and ubuntu packages ready i was told ... not sure about fedora
13:34
<vagrantc>
yeah, i heard about the x2go stuff on the debian-edu lists ...
13:34
wouldn't they just need to add a screen script to add support for it?
13:35
<warren>
x2go?
13:35
<ogra>
yeah
13:36
warren, see above
13:36
<warren>
sweet, the EEEPC 901 just came in the mail
13:36
<ogra>
like nx
13:36
<warren>
URL?
13:36
<ogra>
lol, you bought one ?
13:36
<warren>
yeah, saw how long I resisted?
13:36
<ogra>
nobody listens to me ... you will be sooo envious if i come to maine with my new device :P
13:37
<warren>
classmate?
13:37
<ogra>
nah
13:37
one of the things our OEM team works with that ship with UNR by default
13:37
they will be available around sept.
13:38
and are way beyond the eee's out there
13:38
Gadi apparently got a 901 as well today
13:39
<warren>
in what way better than the 901?
13:39
<ogra>
i'll hopefully be done with classmate by friday and never have to touch it again
13:39
HW setup, case keyboard design
13:46
<warren>
F10 chroot was surprisingly problem free
13:50
<ogra>
no X issues ?
13:53
<warren>
crap
13:53
mkinitrd issue
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14:01
<Gadi>
warren: I got one, too - on Wed
14:01
let me know how the fedora image works
14:01
:)
14:03
<warren>
I'm trying to figure out its partitioning scheme and how difficult it will be to dual-boot or reload it with original software
14:05
<Gadi>
did u try ur usb stick?
14:05
<warren>
yes, it works fine
14:07
hah
14:07
<Gadi>
does it recognize everything?
14:07
<warren>
it has a "learn chinese" app
14:07
<Gadi>
yeah
14:07
<warren>
it plays a drum track
14:07
<Gadi>
I thought that was funny
14:07
<warren>
funny
14:08
<Gadi>
does fedora recognize everything - like the nic, bluetooth, wireless...
14:08
(btw enable bluetooth in the BIOS)
14:08
it comes disabled by default
14:08
no idea why
14:09
<warren>
Fedora 10 has all the drivers I hear
14:09
Fedora 9 is missing the wireless
14:09
for the moment at least
14:09
<Gadi>
cool
14:11
<warren>
the interface that it comes with is pretty well designed
14:11
only problem is I keep accidentally touching the touch pad
14:11
I usually turn off taps
14:12
<Gadi>
I have found a bunch of the English grammar mistakes in the stuff they wrote
14:13
that's always fun
14:13
<warren>
of course
14:13
made in Taiwan
14:14
<Gadi>
so far, all the hardware works nicely
14:14
only thing I can't get going is using my phone as a bluetooth modem
14:14
(my cell phone, that is)
14:14
<warren>
what about the webcam?
14:14
<Gadi>
webacm works
14:15
you can test it in a few places
14:15
like under System Diagnostics
14:16
webcam even works when disabled in the BIOS
14:16
which is cool
14:16
<ogra>
install cheese to use the cam ;)
14:17
<Gadi>
warren: check out the /opt directory
14:17
its a fun tour of some of the work xandros did
14:17
:)
14:21
<warren>
how do you get a shell on this?
14:21
<Lns>
warren, oooh you got a new one! =) I have a 701
14:22
If you get the webcam workign with youtube quick capture lemme know..i can't seem to figure it out, as the cam works fine otherwise
14:22
<Gadi>
warren: ctrl-alt-T, of course
14:24
<Lns>
warren, i really wouldn't stick with the 'easy' interface though...if you like gnome, i wrote a howto on eeeuser.com forums
14:24
cuz the 'full' interface is kde..blech
14:24* ogra guesses if warren wants gnome he just installs fedora
14:24
<ogra>
but gnome is no fun on these screens ... there are lots of pending fixes i'm about to push upstream to make it work ...
14:25
the majority of the apps are not really designed for 600px height
14:25* Lns uses ubuntu hardy and it seems to work great...besides some screen res stuff
14:25* Lns nods
14:25
<ogra>
(though an experienced user will know about alt+drag)
14:25
Lns, did you try out the UNR desktop ?
14:26* Lns had to edit gconf to allow alt-drag above top panel
14:26
<ogra>
depends whyt WM you use
14:26
<Lns>
unr? is that the new ubuntu interface for mobile/touchscreens?
14:26
ogra, gnome..
14:26
er
14:26
metacity
14:26
heh
14:26
<ogra>
that should work without setting gconf keys
14:26
weird that it didnt
14:26
<Lns>
well
14:27
i installed 'ubuntueee' or 'eeebuntu' or whatever it is
14:27
seems like it wasn't worth it...not many things worked
14:27
<ogra>
https://launchpad.net/netbook-remix
14:27
<Lns>
oh yeah saw that
14:27
is it stable yet?
14:27
<ogra>
http://tombuntu.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/netbookremix.jpg
14:27
its only four apps, mostly stable, yes
14:27
<Lns>
that's pretty slick
14:28
looks good
14:28
<ogra>
you need a compiz capable crd for it
14:28
but i think the eee has intel all over
14:28
so should work
14:29
<Lns>
yeah
14:29
compiz is actually pretty damn nice on eee 701
14:29
i was surprised
14:32
<Gadi>
Lns: did you go for the straight format - or did you preserve xandros?
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14:37
<Lns>
Gadi, i did straight format - but i'd dd xandros if you can..its nice to have the backup
14:38ace_suares has quit IRC
14:38
<Lns>
i did get most stuff working good in xandros but i wanted more stuff that ubuntu had - but i had gotten full gnome, 80x24 terminal, compiz all working in xandros at one point
14:40vagrantc has joined #ltsp
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14:46
<Lns>
I HATE WINDOWS! *clears throat* sorry...sorry
14:46Subhodip has quit IRC
14:46* ogra actually lies to look through thme
14:46
<ogra>
*them
14:46
*likes
14:46
gah
14:47
<Lns>
=p those windows i love
14:47
but whenever i use the software..it's like...all closed windows, all with different keys...half of them are broken off in the lock
14:48
i just wanna use quickbooks...that's all...4 hours later...i'm copying the install cd files to a share because it won't read the damn cd in the vm
14:49
even though it launches the installer... can't copy files
14:49
<ogra>
year, like american hotel rooms
14:49
you cant open them
14:49
<Lns>
haha..yes
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14:51
<Lns>
microsoft really did tie the masses up with their stuff....why would anyone WANT to be so greedy? Don't they have nightmares of angry mobs? It seems so senseless
14:51
i guess that's just the balance between completely selfish and selfless though..
14:52* Lns will shut up now
14:52* ogra isnt completelly selfless
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14:52
<ogra>
i'm hapy that canonical has a closed division that earns enough to pay my salary
14:52
as long as we have an open product i can work on through that
14:53
<Lns>
that's much different though...canonicals morals are quite the opposite as microsoft's
14:53
they give back, they enjoy helping the community...microsoft intentionally sabotages it
14:53
nothing wrong with making money
14:53
we all have to
14:54
<ogra>
right, but in the end canonical might become as evil at some point ...
14:55
<Lns>
possibly... but at least they aren't now, which is why they have so much support imho
14:55
<ogra>
though there will never be a possibility we could close the software dowm, or sell it as an entreprise product like others do or so
14:56
right, and we made sure the SW we use and make our money with will always be free
14:56
<Lns>
i think canonical has a great thing going and the ones at the top hopefully won't let greed take over...after all, it's the community that gave them the chance to create a company around OSS in the first place
14:56
exactly
14:56
<ogra>
well, mark surely has no reason gor any greed, he has all he will ever need
14:57
but there is no guarantee that mark will keep working in the company for example
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14:58
<Lns>
very true..and company images revolve directly around their leaders
14:58
<warren>
Lns: if I completely wipe out the disk, is it easy to reload the original os/
14:58
<Lns>
he'll have to choose wisely whoever will take his place
14:58
warren, dd should work fine
14:58
i don't see why it wouldn't
14:59* warren wonders if they included the original OS on media..
14:59
<Lns>
i didn't get one...there was a recovery option during boot
14:59
that's the 701 thou
14:59
<ogra>
even if he might not there are fuses and safety nets that keep ubuntu from being switched to something evil
14:59
<Lns>
that's good
15:00
and being tied in with debian definitely is a safety net of sorts =)
15:00
<ogra>
all i wanted to point out is that you shouldnt mix up canonical and ubuntu :)
15:00
<Lns>
oh no, i don't
15:00
it's hard not to sometimes though =)
15:00
<ogra>
caonical can turn evil any time ... ubuntu will always stay free
15:00
<Lns>
well then LNS will be the new official ubuntu sponsor =p
15:01
<ogra>
yeah, i know i step into that trap myself, even i know better :)
15:01
<Lns>
hehe
15:01
i would love to see ubuntu blossom into a "product" that is supported by as many third-party vendors/support firms as possible
15:02
that's where i see the real value in open source, besides obviously quality programmers
15:02
<ogra>
well, that happens already
15:02
since years
15:02
<Lns>
it does..i'm proof of that..but to see it as a household name and still be OSS would be phenominal
15:02
<ogra>
there is a big support market around ubuntu canonical doesnt influence at all
15:03
<Lns>
yep...which i wish canonical would cater more to '1st tier' support companies..it seems that their support schedules are all about end-user customers..me, for example, would love to see a 'cover-all' plan, say hourly support rates, no matter how many different clients/systems you have setup
15:04
whenever i looked to canonical for upper-level support options, i went away because it was so expensive in my scenario
15:04
<ogra>
well, canonical has a per system plan, but i bet you can find a local company that handles t differently
15:06
<Lns>
that's the thing though, i *am* the local company..i want canonical as a support partner
15:06
its just that i don't see the options that cater to my business (tech support/consulting)
15:07
<ogra>
did you write to the support dept. ?
15:07
i bet there are possibilities
15:07
<Lns>
i haven't..just sales
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16:41
<operador>
gadi :)
16:41
its me mario
16:41
ops ryudo :D
16:43
gadi which command to disconnect the user ?
16:50
<Gadi>
hola, ryudo
16:50
do you mean kill off the user?
16:51
as in all of their processes?
16:51
I always enjoy a good-ole sudo pkill -u <username>
16:51
:)
16:51
something cathartic about that command
16:52
<operador>
kill user :D
16:52
student-control-panel <== HEAVY !
16:52
student-control-panel <== BUG !
16:52
:/
16:53
<Gadi>
don't look at me
16:53
Ive never even seen it
16:53
:)
16:53
<operador>
here Ubuntu 8.04.1 22 users
16:54
16:54
to open the program, it hangs with 22 users logged
16:54
<gbolte>
Gadi, I personally like killall -9 -u username
16:54
<Gadi>
operador: sudo apt-get remove --purge tracker
16:55
operador: sudo pkill -9 tracker
16:55
gbolte: I have always been more of a pkill guy, myself
16:55
<gbolte>
ah
16:55
killall sounds more brutal
16:55
<operador>
tracker ?
16:55
<Gadi>
operador: yeah, ubuntu installs it by default - its malware
16:55
:P
16:56
<operador>
ahahha yes
16:56
other malware for ltsp eviroment is firefox !
16:56
flash too !
16:56
gadi i solve my performaces problems
16:57
16:57
even with a new server c2quad, continued slowly and with many operations of reading and writing to disk
16:57* gbolte takes a walk around the office to see who is left on this friday afternoon
16:57
<Gadi>
operador: remove tracker
16:57
that could definitely be the problem
16:58
<operador>
16:58
I swapped the firefox3 by epiphany, and the operations of io missing! All this super lightweight
16:58
16:58
I already removed a long time :P
16:59
firefox cause many operations IO disk from my server
17:00
another thing that makes the performance drop significantly, is the disk cache used by firefox ... you must disable it
17:00* Gadi nods
17:00
<operador>
browser.cache.disk.enable;false
17:00
;P
17:01
17:01
replacing the firefox 3 at epiphany and disabling the cache to disk, my server is super fast
17:02
Firefox 3 + Flash = Terryble Malware
17:02
in ltsp enviroments
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17:03
<gbolte>
what kinda environment are you using ltsp in operador
17:04
22 users on what hardware
17:05
<operador>
gbolte Core 2 Quad 2.4 ghz@ 3 ghz \m/ 6 GB DDR2 800 2x160GB SATA2 NCQ
17:05
<gbolte>
hmm
17:05
<operador>
server link GIGABIT
17:05
you need gigabit link server--switch
17:06
<gbolte>
you have a setup somewhat close to ours
17:06
<operador>
what kinda environment are you using ltsp in operador
17:07Gadi has left #ltsp
17:07
<operador>
how many clients you have?
17:07
<gbolte>
we have 2 servers splitting the load of our ~20 users
17:07
<operador>
humm you user firefox ?
17:08
replace for epiphany :D
17:08
<gbolte>
each server has dual xeon quad 3ghz processors and 8 GB ram
17:08
we use firefox 3
17:08
<operador>
17:08
another process that consumes much processing is the nspluginwrapper, used to run the flash plugin in 64-bit versions of ubuntu
17:09
OMFG O_O
17:09
<gbolte>
heh we use 32bit
17:09
:)
17:09
<operador>
32 bits wich PAE ?
17:09
<gbolte>
yeah
17:09
<operador>
i dont use :(
17:09
<gbolte>
-/+ buffers/cache: 2667 5448
17:10
<operador>
PAE is stable ?
17:10
<gbolte>
5.4GB free of ram
17:10
yes
17:10
<operador>
hummm you use default ubuntu kernel recompiled wich PAE or vanilla kernel ?
17:10
sorry my english so bad :D
17:10
<gbolte>
we actually are not using ubuntu
17:10
<operador>
:O
17:10
<gbolte>
we use opensuse 11
17:11
<operador>
é realmente foi um erro meu usar um sistema operacional 64bits
17:11
it really was a mistake I use an operating system 64bit
17:12
:{ nspluginwrapper consume much processor cycles
17:12
<gbolte>
yeah we didnt want to deal with the issues that come when you use 64bit on the desktop
17:12
it would make sense if it was a database server
17:12
but not for desktop computing
17:15
<operador>
yes its true
17:16
<gbolte>
operador, are you using ltsp in your business?
17:16
<operador>
i will change to 32 bit version wich PAE in ubuntu 8.10 :}
17:16
17:16
I use in my college, in a laboratory with 22 machines
17:17
I was inexperienced ... 100 Mb switch using the performance was bad ... nobody liked the idea
17:17
<gbolte>
heh
17:18
<operador>
17:18
but now I rebuild all, and is running better
17:18
next mission is
17:18
using 32 BITS + PAE
17:18
:D
17:18
<gbolte>
we have had good success deploying ltsp to our employees using gigabit switches and a pair of high powered servers
17:21
<operador>
17:21
how many users each server ? and specs plz :(
17:22
<gbolte>
well I think we have it down to about 12 users on each server at this point
17:23
<operador>
server specs ?
17:23
<gbolte>
the specs of the servers are dual quad core xeon 3GHz processors and 8GB ram with 500GB hard drive space each
17:23
<operador>
here 22 users using Openoffice Gnome(openbox) epiphany
17:24
500 raid 5 ?
17:24
two processors quad core each correct ?
17:24nicoAMG has quit IRC
17:24
<gbolte>
yeah
17:24
2 processors
17:25
the hard drives are raid 0
17:25
user data is stored on another server
17:25
mounted with nfs
17:25
<operador>
humm COOL
17:25
<gbolte>
yeah
17:25
<operador>
but if one HD crash
17:26
system has great downtime
17:26
:{
17:26
<gbolte>
we put everyone on the other server
17:26
:)
17:26
<operador>
i using RAID1 mdadm
17:26
<gbolte>
ah
17:26
<operador>
:O
17:26
load balance or backup server ?
17:26
<gbolte>
well we are just load balancing for the moment
17:27
the servers can easily handle everyone
17:27
we just like to leave room
17:27
<operador>
you using ltsp-kiwi correct ?
17:27
<gbolte>
yeah
17:27
<operador>
kiwi = ubuntu ltsp or diferent ?
17:28
gbolte i need to go
17:28
<gbolte>
kiwi uses the ltsp server packages and dose some of its own things to build the images
17:28
oh ok
17:28
<operador>
thanks for your atention
17:28
<gbolte>
well I will talk with you later
17:28
<operador>
:D nice to meet you !
17:28
<gbolte>
bye
17:28
<operador>
:D
17:28
i from brazil and you ?
17:28
<gbolte>
USA
17:28
<operador>
cool :D
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17:29
<gbolte>
alright we will talk again later
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20:31
<acp_>
Hi do i really need to install libflashsupport for flash sound to work in my thinclient?
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22:00
<warren>
acp_: yes, unless you use Flash 10 beta
22:01
acp_: flash 10 beta talks native alsa in a way that alsa's pulseaudio emulation can handle
22:06
<acp_>
thanks warren, i did install it and it work. I only notice is that some times firefox crush but once I open it agin its ok. seem that its not stable but it suit my need
22:06
<warren>
acp_: crashes are very likely caused by plugins, not firefox itself
22:07
acp_: firefox on fedora runs all plugins in a separate process with nspluginwrapper even on i386 where it is not necessary. We find that firefox then crashes almost never, while you can see the plugins crash often.
22:07
acp_: not sure if Ubuntu can do nspluginwrapper on 32bit
22:08
<acp_>
ok, I will look in to it, tnx!
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