IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 14 January 2012   (all times are UTC)

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07:32
<VectorX>
trying to do an apt-update on the image in ubuntu and getting "W: GPG error: http://extras.ubuntu.com oneiric Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 16126D3A3E5C1192"
07:32
whats the fix for that
07:33
trying to create the key gives "gpg: fatal: can't create directory `/home/ik/.gnupg': No such file or directory"
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08:27
<VectorX>
ok got that sorted
08:27
so im doing this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall but when the client loads there are no apps, just a control bar on the top with file etc
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09:31
<knipwim>
hey alkisg. good morning
09:31
<alkisg>
Good morning knipwim
09:31
<knipwim>
i'm working on a more elaborate proposal for the plugin redesign
09:31
<alkisg>
The ltsp-build-client plugin, or the ltsp-chroot plugin?
09:31
<knipwim>
ltsp-build-client plugin
09:31
the function based stuff
09:32
the one we talked about earlier
09:32
<alkisg>
Keep in mind that we want to strip much of that and put it in the early boot stages
09:32
E.g. in the initramfs
09:32
I'm not sure if the function based method will suit ltsp-build-client... will it?
09:33
knipwim: have you heard about the "bootable chroot" goal, where we move stuff to the early boot stages?
09:33
<knipwim>
yes
09:33
<alkisg>
OK
09:33
<knipwim>
although i'm not sure have to implement it for gentoo yet
09:33
but i like the idea
09:34
still, some ltsp-build-client stuff will remain i guess
09:34
<alkisg>
Yes, for those that want a directory-based chroot
09:34
E.g. I think I won't be using it in the future, but I'll be using vbox to install a normal ubuntu installation as the ltsp chroot
09:35
But sure e.g. for thin chroots, ltsp-build-client is still ideal
09:35
Anyway, what did you have in mind?
09:36
<knipwim>
i was wondering to put the proposal on the dev mailing list
09:36
or put it in one of those public pads
09:36
and refer from the mailing list
09:36
<alkisg>
Do you have something written already?
09:36
<knipwim>
about halfway there
09:36
<alkisg>
Can I have a look?
09:36
<knipwim>
still have to think of some migration steps
09:39
http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/eeM3b5X9OJ
09:45
<alkisg>
knipwim: how about a compromise? Instead of redesigning from scratch, to expand "ltsp-common-functions" into a library
09:45
The common code would be written there, and the functions would be overriden by distro-specific scripts
09:45
E.g. in ltsp-common-functions, we'd have:
09:46
get_package_version()
09:46
{ die "Your distro doesn't implement this function" }
09:46
In common-functions.d/Ubuntu, we'd have:
09:46
get_package_version()
09:46
{ dpkg-query etc }
09:47
And ltsp-common-functions, in its end, would source all distro specific scripts so that the overrides take effect
09:47
...then, slowly, we'd rewrite whatever we can from ltsp-chroot, ltsp-info, ltsp-build-client to take advantage of that common "shell library"
09:47
I think this way the migration will be painles...
09:48
...because ltsp-build-client is too big to change in one step
09:49
<knipwim>
migration is an issue i agree
09:49
but would you want all common code for all commands in ltsp-common-functions?
09:50
<alkisg>
Why not?
09:50
Wait, not all common code
09:50
E.g. if some initscripts want to do something in a portable way, they can use that "shell library"
09:50
They don't have to be "in" the library, they'd just use it
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09:52
<alkisg>
If you even read about javascript libraries, which are supposed to take away the burden of browser-specific-details from the programmer, I'm talking about something like this, but for shell
09:52
*ever
09:52
I'm not talking about stripping the code of initscripts into that library...
09:53
The library would only have a set to make shell programming more portable across distros, and the initscripts or ltsp-build-client scripts would use that library
09:53
*a set of functions...
09:54
<knipwim>
basically a set of templates which could be expanded using e.g. common-functions.d/Ubuntu
09:55
<alkisg>
A basic set of functions that common ltsp code can rely upon, yes
09:56
<knipwim>
but still, the functions of ltsp-update-image, ltsp-build-client etc. would all be in there, resulting in relatively large file
09:56
that won't be a problem?
09:56
<alkisg>
I don't think they should be there
09:57
If their code is portable (using the library), they could be inside ltsp-update-image etc
09:58
If it's not, we just apply the same system there?
09:58
<knipwim>
i was still wondering how to solve the redundancy issues that currently exists for the commandline parts
09:58
different distro's defining the same commands in their own functions
09:58
that should be common i guess
09:59
<alkisg>
OK suppose ltsp-update-image needs "get_package_version" and "compress_chroot", both of which are distro specific
09:59
get_package_version would be in common-functions, because it's common, more scripts would need it
09:59
compress_chroot shouldn't be there, as ltsp-update-image is the only script that would need it
09:59
So, maybe we can use function overrides for ltsp-update-image too
10:00
Inside ltsp-update-image:
10:00
<knipwim>
overrides for commands and distros
10:00
<alkisg>
compress_chroot()
10:00
{ your distro doesn't implement this }
10:00
<knipwim>
that could work
10:00
<alkisg>
inside ltsp-update-image.d/ubuntu => the override
10:01
I think that would still allow the ltsp-update-image main code to be portable...
10:02
<knipwim>
i like it, but, isn't this also a complete redesign resulting in migration issues? ;)
10:05
<alkisg>
I think it allows for slow migration...
10:08* knipwim is wondering about that
10:08
<knipwim>
but still
10:09
i could also try to implement that based on the code i have already
10:09
so we have two proposals to discuss
10:09
and migration issues to consider
10:09
<alkisg>
Let me check if we can make a nice "call_distro_specific_function" wrapper, that would source files or report errors as appropriate...
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10:15
<knipwim>
going for some breakfast....
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12:06
<alkisg>
While it's doable, people at #bash didn't like the "call_distro_specific_function" wrapper idea, so having dummy "not implemented" functions is probably the way to go
12:08
A complimentary idea is that ltsp-common-functions could also source $0.$distro
12:08
So if called by ltsp-update-image on ubuntu, it would source ltsp-update-image(functions).ubuntu,
12:08
while if called by ltsp-chroot, it would source ltsp-chroot.ubuntu, etc etc
12:09
<knipwim>
yeah, i was thinking along those lines as well
12:10
so the command would only have to source ltsp-common-functions
12:10
<alkisg>
Yeah
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12:23
<VectorX>
ok so bit baffled here,*ubuntu installed amd64 ran ltsp-build-client --arch i386 and the clients just have a file menu sort of thig with no apps, if i install the 386 version and client loads all the regular apps are available, how do i make that happen with the other method ?
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13:40
<knipwim>
alkisg: just checking some assumptions
13:40
* the common-functions.d/ will contain the plugin functions (function based)
13:40
* each distro will either use the old system, or the new system
13:40
* each command (ltsp-*) first checks if there is a distro specific part in common-functions.d/ , if there is, use that, otherwise execute using old system
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13:59
<alkisg>
knipwim: so the scripts will be named something like this? common-functions.d/ltsp-update-image-common, common-functions.d/ltsp-update-image-ubuntu... ? Also, in this specific case, maybe the ltsp-update-image-common functions belong to the ltsp-update-image script itself?
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14:55
<alkisg>
We could also leave it up to the packager to put the distro functions always in /usr/share/ltsp/distro-functions.d ...
14:56
So, common-functions.d, overriden by distro-functions.d, and those could even be overriden by vendor-functions.d. All those sourced automatically by checking $0 at the top of ltsp-common-functions.
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