IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 24 February 2014   (all times are UTC)

00:03
<TheProf>
!pastebin
00:03
<ltsp`>
pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
00:07
<TheProf>
Hello. I hope you are all doing well. I am super-frustrated and am begging for help please. My lts.conf is entirely being ignored and I've spent 3 hours trying to determine why. Two versions: one works, one doesn't, and the only difference is a commented line
00:07
Works: http://pastebin.com/9e8ZdqmU
00:07
Fails: http://pastebin.com/KzdBc5AF
00:08
I don't have any more hair to pull out :(
00:09
I am attempting to get the printer working. The server isn't reading any changes - there's no shell login screen, nothing. It just hangs if I remove the comment in front of the x_color_depth=16
00:13
<ccat>
TheProf: no idea, but have you tried other vals, like 32?
00:13
<TheProf>
ccat: Hello. It doesn't seem to be an issue with the x_color_depth value. If I uncomment the line above or below it, it also crashes.
00:14
It seems like there's an error in parsing the lts.conf and it just hangs
00:14
If everything is commented out, it works.
00:15
<ccat>
TheProf: when was the last time you had a fully working config?
00:15
--file
00:16
<TheProf>
ccat: the file has been fine for about 18 months no problem. I never needed to change anything so it was always just the default with no options.
00:17
I wanted to add the settings for the thin client so I added a new section under [default] and that's when I noticed the problems arising. It was never reading the settings under the thin client part so I worked backwards
00:17
and realized it's not reading the stuff under [default] either.
00:18
<vagrantc_>
TheProf: i'd put the comment for the mac-address specified stanza after the mac address
00:19
just a hunch, but i seem to recall having similar problems
00:19
<TheProf>
vagrantc_: Hello. I think I've done it that way. The mac-specific items are after the mac address within the stanza
00:19
<vagrantc_>
TheProf: yes, but you have a comment immediately before it
00:19
<TheProf>
the x_color thing was just to test if it's reading the file at all
00:19
<ccat>
TheProf: "It was never reading the settings under the thin client part" ??
00:20
<vagrantc_>
TheProf: "# Front Desk Computer where HP Laserjet Printer is located"
00:20
<TheProf>
vagrantc_: Oh I understand.
00:20
<vagrantc_>
TheProf: move that after the mac address line
00:20
<TheProf>
vagrantc_: Right.
00:20
vagrantc_: I'll try that now.
00:20
<vagrantc_>
TheProf: might not help...
00:20
TheProf: but i have a vague memory of needing to do that
00:21
<TheProf>
vagrantc_: I'll try anything whatsoever. I need to go up and down a flight for each test (adding to the frustration) so I'm trying that now.
00:21
<vagrantc_>
ouch
00:21* vagrantc_ suggests virtual thin clients for testing
00:23
<ccat>
TheProf: however, as there are also comments after that section, then post-section comments work, so perhaps a dummy section at the very top?
00:24
<TheProf>
vagrantc_: virtual thin clients is something I know nothing about but may need to as I'm losing weight doing this.
00:24
just tested the comment change - no effect. still hangs
00:25
ccat: by a dummy section do you mean another stanza?
00:27
From what I see if everything in the file is commented out, it loads. If you uncomment the thin client settings, it loads but ignores whatever you put. If you uncomment things from the default section, it crashes
00:27
<ccat>
TheProf: no, just a section-tag like [dummy-section] or [system notes]
00:27
<TheProf>
ccat: OK I'll try that now.
00:27
<vagrantc_>
TheProf: running it through getltscfg manually produces a syntax error
00:28
TheProf: probably want to do that before running up and down stairs :)
00:29
TheProf: what version of ltsp?
00:29
<ccat>
vagrantc_: which are the "thin client settings" ?
00:29
<TheProf>
vagrantc_: getltscfg not installed by default. I'm running Edubuntu 12.04 LTS which I think is LTSP 5 I believe
00:30
<vagrantc_>
long long ago, there was a bug that required there to be enttries in the [default] section ...
00:30
maybe something's triggering that, or it got reverted
00:31
TheProf: adding "DUMMY_VALUE=true" seems a viable workaround
00:31
TheProf: you can put arbitrary values in there...
00:33
<ccat>
vagrantc_: are the thin client settings below this? [00:22:64:BB:60:A8]
00:33
<TheProf>
ccat: your idea of putting a fake or dummy header worked. The thin client boots
00:33
But nothing under is taking effect on the thin client
00:33
<ccat>
:)
00:33
:(
00:34
<TheProf>
I put screen_07=shell
00:34
but it still boots to the gui
00:34
vagrantc_: should I be putting that dummy-value=true under the fake header?
00:34
<vagrantc_>
TheProf: try with a dummy value in the [default] section
00:34
<TheProf>
vagrantc_: OK
00:35
<vagrantc_>
TheProf: apparently, you're triggering some bug that requires there to always be something in [default]
00:35
<ccat>
TheProf: is this a client of the pc several stairs away?
00:35
<vagrantc_>
thought we fixed that... but apparently not
00:35
<TheProf>
ccat: yes it is
00:35
<ccat>
TheProf: can you now conn to that pc?
00:36
<TheProf>
ccat: I can get it to boot but not take on any of its thin client settings.
00:36
Let me rephrase it like this:
00:36
if I don't put that [dummy] header, no thin client in the building boots.
00:37
<vagrantc_>
TheProf: i'd remove the [dummy] and just use a dummy value in [default]
00:37
<TheProf>
putting the [dummy] headers gets them to boot but not to read any of the settings in lts.conf
00:37
OK
00:37
<ccat>
TheProf: but can you reach the other pc now, and edit, so you don't have to do so by foot?
00:38
<TheProf>
ccat: I have been doing that but whenever I trigger an error that causes it to not boot, i have to head back to the server room.
00:38
So it's sorta like roulette in that sense. Comment out the line, reboot - yay! no stairs
00:38
Comment out another line - crash! head downstairs, reverse changes, etc.
00:39
<ccat>
TheProf: can you get 2 clients side-by-side?
00:39* vagrantc_ hands TheProf "ssh"
00:39
<TheProf>
ccat: that is a smarter solution but in my frustration I wasn't thinking it.
00:40
vagrantc_: I wasn't sure how ssh would help me for this
00:41
<ccat>
TheProf: so think it now! and triple your productivity (at expense of waistline alas)
00:41
<vagrantc_>
if you have a machine you can reliably ssh to to the server with, then you don't have to run up and down the stairs...
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00:42
<TheProf>
Does not boot. This is what it looks like: http://pastebin.com/gciv5xw8
00:43
<ccat>
vagrantc_: can you maintain the ssh link (for config) and the ltsp link (being tested) independently?
00:43
<vagrantc_>
there is also a bug in jetpipe that caused this behavior...
00:43
ccat: i really don't understand what you're asking
00:44
at least on debian.
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00:44
<TheProf>
vagrantc_: the problem is happening without the printer parameters. I'm working on that thin client and if it's correct, when it boots I should just see a shell. But I don't - I see the gui
00:45
<vagrantc_>
TheProf: so edit your chroot in /opt/ltsp/*/usr/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d/ ....
00:45* vagrantc_ looks up the exact script
00:45
<vagrantc_>
it's /opt/ltsp/*/usr/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d/*jetpipe
00:46
if you comment out the line that starts jetpipe, run ltsp-update-image, my guess is it will work
00:46
well, it will boot
00:46
but it won't allow you to print anything, of course
00:46
but i think this is a bug i worked around in debian with a different patch
00:47* vagrantc_ bets there's a ppa with a version built that's patched properly...
00:47
<TheProf>
vagrantc_: If I understand you correctly, the fact I'm trying to hook up a printer is causing this?
00:48
vagrantc_: Because I believe even if I erase all the lines related to the printe configuration it still causes the same problem.
00:48
<vagrantc_>
TheProf: basically, yes. there's a bug in the code that starts the printer, it starts it *way* too early in the bootprocess, and it fails to daemonize
00:48
hrm.
00:49
<TheProf>
OK I can test this by eraseing everything related to the printer to check if that would help
00:49
<vagrantc_>
there is a syntax error in your lts.conf, too, but it shouldn't matter
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00:50
<vagrantc_>
since you didn't need to set any values before, it probably was silently erroring out
00:50
but i bet setting any client-specific values would have been silently ignored
00:51
so by working around the syntax error in your lts.conf, it triggered the jetpipe bug... at least, that's my diagnosis so far.
00:52
<TheProf>
My ideal test is just a simple 'yes it's reading or not it's not reading' lts.conf. I thought the screen shell command would do it
00:52
I might as well erase everything from lts.conf including comments, just leave default and the thin client stanza and see what happens?
00:52
vagrantc_: right.
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00:52
<TheProf>
vagrantc_: OK. so the test of this would be see if I remove all the jetpipe stuff, set the screen=shell and see that is followed
00:55
well that's upsetting. Only 4 lines and it failed: http://pastebin.com/JvFQjbqh
00:55
<vagrantc_>
my tests suggests there *must* be something set in [default] or it will ignore everything
00:55
i.e. syntax error
00:55
<ccat>
TheProf: you are just erasing a temp renamed config file?, so you always have a work-on version
00:56
<vagrantc_>
[default]
00:56
<TheProf>
ccat: I'm sorry I don't understand your question.
00:56
<vagrantc_>
dummy_value=dummy_value
00:56
[foo]
00:56
screen_08=shell
00:57
hrm.
00:57
TheProf: so, how exactly did it fail? fail to boot? boot to the wrong thing?
00:58
<TheProf>
vagrantc_: yes sorry I didn't clarify. When it boots up it finds the server, then loads up a 'loading' screen from edubuntu with 4 dots. and just freezes on that screen
00:58
<vagrantc_>
hrm.
00:58
<ccat>
TheProf: instead of repeatedly deleting and retyping blocks in your config file, are you just deleting them from a temp copy and renaming it to be the config
00:58
<vagrantc_>
TheProf: which file are you editing?
00:59
<TheProf>
I am editing /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64/lts.conf The changes take effect immediately
00:59
ccat: I'm been making backup copies from a working version I had in a different directory
01:00
<vagrantc_>
TheProf: changes will require a reboot to take effect
01:00
of the client
01:01
<TheProf>
vagrantc_: Yes I've been rebooting each time I make a change
01:01
<ccat>
TheProf: do you have an original copy made before starting this new setup?
01:01
<TheProf>
ccat: Yes I made two copies in two different places just to be sure :)
01:02
<ccat>
TheProf: copy one and try it
01:02
<TheProf>
ccat: the original working one back in? Sure
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01:02
<ccat>
y
01:05
<vagrantc_>
TheProf: try disabling the bootsplash screen
01:05
<TheProf>
alright I've copied my original one back in and heading up to test
01:05
<vagrantc_>
TheProf: it might show some errors or something...
01:05
<TheProf>
brb staircase
01:07
ccat: original lts.conf works fine
01:07
<ccat>
TheProf: thought you were going to put 2 clients side-by-side
01:07
<vagrantc_>
in that it allows boot to continue...
01:07
<TheProf>
ccat: hooking it up requires finding another machine and wiring up the appropriate network cables through the patch panels, different lans etc.
01:07
vagrantc_: yes all the way to the login screen
01:08
<vagrantc_>
TheProf: i've gotta head out soon.
01:09
<TheProf>
this is the configuration that is currently working: http://pastebin.com/YBQRXwc3
01:09
<vagrantc_>
TheProf: if it really is the jetpipe bug:
01:09
Bug-Debian: http://bugs.debian.org/700881
01:09
Upstream-Bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/996533
01:09
<TheProf>
vagrantc_: I understand. OK
01:09
<vagrantc_>
it has very similar symptoms
01:09
<TheProf>
but I think this working one is just ignoring everything
01:09
<ccat>
TheProf: oh well --- http://pastebin.com/JvFQjbqh try changing [default] to [blabla]
01:09
<vagrantc_>
TheProf: yes, if you run getltscfg on it, it just errors out with a syntax error
01:10
<TheProf>
vagrantc_: OK.
01:10
ccat: I'm making that change now
01:10
<ccat>
hm, nm
01:10
<TheProf>
oh ok.
01:10
<vagrantc_>
it always needs to either be empty or contain at least two lines: [default] variable1=value1
01:12
actually, apparently it doesn't require default anymore
01:12
<TheProf>
vagrantc_: I could try to get rid of default
01:12
<ccat>
TheProf: did we try moving the [default] section to the bottom?
01:12
<TheProf>
ccat: we tried putting something on top of it only.
01:12
the options are - move to the bottom or delete entirely
01:13
<ccat>
-- after the new printer section
01:13
<vagrantc_>
at least on my debian wheezy environment, getltscfg (which is the binary that parses lts.conf) needs at least one value set for every section defined.
01:14
<TheProf>
ccat: on the most recent working version correct?
01:14
<vagrantc_>
order doesn't matter.
01:14
<ccat>
TheProf: no, one of the bad ones
01:14
<TheProf>
ccat: alright
01:20
I reversed it and it did not boot. http://pastebin.com/ibbjigCx
01:20
How do you turn off the splash screen?
01:23
<ccat>
vagrantc_: can you maintain the ssh link you suggested for doing this config, if you still have to keep rebooting the pc with the faulty ltsp link?
01:24
<TheProf>
ccat: This is a good point. Else you need to physically be at the machine
01:24
I found the instructions to remove the slash screen.
01:25
<ccat>
TheProf: now try changing [default] to [blabla]
01:26
<TheProf>
ccat: the current lts.conf is non-functional. Should I change it in that one?
01:26
<ccat>
y
01:26
<TheProf>
OK
01:29
ccat: I changed it and it did not work. Removing the splash screen didn't entirely work - it gave me a couple more lines during booting and then put up the splash screen again - just a bit later
01:30
<vagrantc_>
you need a var=value for each [stanza]
01:31
<TheProf>
oh wait, there's another line on the splash file = plymoth:force_splash
01:31
I didn't get rid of that one.
01:31
vagrantc_: I have one variable in each stanza
01:31
<vagrantc_>
TheProf: ok, good.
01:32
<TheProf>
under default I have sound=true, under the mac address i have screen_07=shell
01:35
Nope. That plymouth line seems to be needed. Without it, the thin client loads the image file from the server, then the monitor goes to sleep!
01:39
<vagrantc_>
!splash
01:39
<ltsp`>
splash: to disable the splash screen in Ubuntu, in order to see any boot error messages, run `sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default` and remove quiet splash .
01:39
<TheProf>
vagrantc_: Yes I did that.
01:40
<vagrantc_>
just seeing if there's anything more useful hidden there
01:40
<TheProf>
It allowed me to see 2 more lines.
01:40
the line where you have the .................... as it loads
01:40
and then one more line that ended in OK
01:40
<vagrantc_>
right
01:42
TheProf: well, good luck!
01:42* vagrantc_ waves
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01:43
<ccat>
TheProf: in all No cases, both default and ::section have values
01:45
<TheProf>
And he left just when it got interesting!
01:45
ccat: So I just found this situation out:
01:45
I stripped out spaces between lines, indents, etc.
01:46
And it doesn't work in this case:[default]
01:46
SOUND=true
01:46
[00:22:64:BB:60:A8]
01:46
SCREEN_07=shell
01:46
But it does work if you comment out the last line!
01:46
#SCREEN_07=shell boots
01:46
<ccat>
TheProf: see above :)
01:47
<TheProf>
ccat: ah...yes :)
01:47
<ccat>
now repeat but c-out just [def]
01:47
<TheProf>
the sound line? and leave the header?
01:47
<ccat>
-- sorry, just the sound
01:48
y
01:48
<TheProf>
OK
01:48
It should work. Checking
01:51
ccat: yes it worked. Doesn't this mean it's just ignoring the lts.conf file and working off some sort of default settings elsewhere?
01:53
This is driving me nuts.
01:54
<ccat>
TheProf: it means you can have defaults OR customized settings -- but not BOTH ! :D
01:55
--- well, so far
01:56
<TheProf>
ccat: I'm OK with customized settings - but from what I can tell there's no customized settings that are carried out, because screen_07=shell never works
01:56
<ccat>
TheProf: even with #sound ?
01:59
<TheProf>
ccat: I misunderstood your instructions earlier. I commented out both sound and screen. I'll uncomment screen and see what it does
02:02
ccat: OK. Uncommenting screen_07=shell allows it to boot correctly but does not show you a shell. It loads the regular GUI
02:03
So it seems to be ignoring the screen command unless I don't understand what it is suppose to do.
02:03
<ccat>
TheProf: but in all cases if default and ::section both have values it does not even boot?
02:04
<TheProf>
SCREEN_07=shell is suppose to drop you into a shell login correct? I don't need to do ctrl+alt+F7?
02:04
ccat: Correct if there are uncommented values it fails to boot.
02:05
<ccat>
TheProf: do not know, just trying to find the common patterns for boot and no-boot --- seems we found the latter
02:05
<TheProf>
I ask because ctrl+alt+F1 gives me a shell
02:06
so let me try changing the screen number
02:08
ccat: No change. It's for sure not parsing through lts.conf
02:09
<ccat>
TheProf: not even through the original?
02:09
<TheProf>
This is bizzare - the first time I want to modify lts.conf I can't.
02:10
ccat: the original had no settings that I was ever able to tell if it was parsing or not
02:10
things like using encrypted vs decrypted traffic - how could I know to check it?
02:11
<ccat>
TheProf: not even colordepth?
02:11
<TheProf>
This is the first time I made a change from the original that would be noticable IE the shell
02:11
ccat: I changed it to 16 bit from 32 bit. I didn't think I'd notice a different <hangs head in shame>
02:12
It seems it never actually read lts.conf. I wonder if I have to change the other lts.conf and then re-create the image
02:12
<ccat>
TheProf: maybe. maybe not --- but with SOUND you should get ti loud and clear -- if it works :)
02:12
-- it
02:12
<TheProf>
ccat: but the default settings is have sound working.
02:13
So me telling it sound=y isn't relevant to the server if the default is also on.
02:13
If that makes sense.
02:13
so instead of turning sound off, I turned shell on
02:13
<ccat>
well, actually soft, and silent, it seems --- but make sure you DO hear it before changing it
02:14
--- i.e turning it off
02:14
<TheProf>
For sure sound works - we regularly are playing songs, youtube etc.
02:14
<ccat>
then DO set it off
02:14
-- in the original working one
02:15
<TheProf>
Alright so then allows us to test if default is even being read. So the settings will be [default] sound=off, [mac address]#setting commented out
02:15
<ccat>
y, because anything else not commented and it won't even boot, y
02:16
--- any other values that is
02:20
<TheProf>
ccat: Nope. So lts.conf currently has:
02:20
[default]
02:20
SOUND=false
02:20
[00:22:64:BB:60:A8]
02:20
#SCREEN_01=shell
02:20
Boots = yes
02:20
Sound yes works
02:21
<ccat>
ok, so either it ignored Sound, or it ignored the whole config
02:21
<TheProf>
ccat: it seems be ignoring the whole config.
02:21
because this was under default, not a specific thin client
02:21
<ccat>
ok, so now comment the [mac] header
02:21
<TheProf>
OK
02:22
ccat: working your way up?
02:22
<ccat>
is this not a master config file for all clients?
02:22
you mean p the configs?
02:22
-- up
02:25
<TheProf>
ccat: yes this is the master one for all thin clients. It currently reads:
02:25
[default]
02:25
SOUND=false
02:25
#[00:22:64:BB:60:A8]
02:25
#SCREEN_01=shell
02:25
client booted correctly and there was sound yes
02:27
<ccat>
re "because this was under default, not a specific thin client" -- no client should have sound now
02:28
<TheProf>
ccat: I agree no client should have sound but there was clearly sound on youtube
02:29
<ccat>
ok, back to orig cfg file --- is there ANYTHING in there that showed a clear sign of becoming enabled by the config?
02:31
oh, are there ANY other config files? maybe for specific clients?
02:31
--- working files
02:32
<TheProf>
ccat: There is nothing. None of the clients have anything specific for them - this is the first attempt
02:32
I looked in the logs now and noticed only one different between a thin client that does and does not boot
02:32
the ones that do not boot never display "ltsp nbd_server[15557]: Disconnect request received."
02:33
That's all.
02:34
<ccat>
TheProf: well if it boots, and assumingly connects then it can disconn -- but if it never boots then it never conn, so can't disconn?
02:34
<TheProf>
ccat: fair enough :)
02:36
<ccat>
ok, LDM_LIMIT_ONE_SESSION --- can you conn TWO clients in LDM? -- or is that one client twice?
02:37
<TheProf>
LDM_LIMIT is suppose to only let one person log into one machine, so you can't log into multiple machines with the same client.
02:37
sorry, username
02:39
<ccat>
with the working cfg, you can log into one pc (eg play youtube) do so, then try logging into another at the same time
02:39
i.e DO "log into multiple machines with the same client"
02:39
-- well try
02:40
<TheProf>
ccat: I just tried something and got a different situation where it crashed
02:40
[default]
02:40
SOUND=false
02:40
SCREEN_07=shell
02:40
<blank line where I pressed enter>
02:40
#[00:22:64:BB:60:A8]
02:40
#SCREEN_01=shell
02:40
That configuration crashed
02:40
the blank line seems to have caused it to fail to boot
02:41
<ccat>
crashed meaning not booted, or worse now?
02:41
<TheProf>
I'm sorry - same
02:41
Not booting
02:41
frozen.
02:41
Not responding. It is no more. An ex-thin client :)
02:43
With regards to the LDM Limit, I remember now from the teachers in the school they are able to log into more than one computer with the same username
02:44
<ccat>
TheProf: so if this config file controls their access, then that setting is not working either, y?
02:45
<TheProf>
correct. Despite it being set to limit one login per username in lts.conf it's being ignore by the thin clients.
02:45
however the lack of complete booting based on what's in lts.conf indicates it is being read just not acted upon
02:46
<ccat>
y
02:46
where did you get that Screen line?
02:47
<TheProf>
This is pretty nuts. This is a clean installation with no modifications.
02:47
I got that line from the lts.conf documentation
02:47
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/lucid/man5/lts.conf.5.html
02:47
<ccat>
which is where?
02:47
<TheProf>
There are example entries at the bottom
02:54
<ccat>
y
02:57
so..... it accesses the file but ignores the contents unless it doesn't like them, whereupon it fails to even boot
02:58
<TheProf>
exactly
02:59
<ccat>
i've got it! I'M dreaming!
02:59
-- but since i can't wake up.... back to work
03:00
<TheProf>
oh man! You got my hopes up for a moment! :)
03:00
<ccat>
what are the permissions on the file?
03:01
<TheProf>
Checking
03:02
644 root:root
03:04
<ccat>
don't know that form yet --- but file must not be read-only as you just edited it --- what about "can-execute" ?
03:05
<TheProf>
root can read yes, write yes, execute no.
03:06
group is root and can read only, not write, not execute
03:06
other can only read
03:08
<ccat>
are ltsp and conf in same root?, group?, or other?
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03:15
<TheProf>
ccat: I'm not too sure what you mean
03:18
<ccat>
if conf is different dir than exe maybe it can't access it properly?
03:20
<TheProf>
I'm not sure - is there a correct way to check?
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03:23
<ccat>
hold....
03:23
<TheProf>
thank you
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03:29
<ccat>
meanwhile...
03:29
<TheProf>
Looks like it's bad luck I tried the channel during low activity period
03:30
<ccat>
(testing...testing)
03:30
hmmm
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03:31
<ccat>
dir /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64/lts.conf is where conf is --- but where is ltsp's exe?
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03:34
<ccat>
TheProf: dir /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64/lts.conf is where conf is --- but where is ltsp's exe?
03:34
<TheProf>
What about/opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/ldm-script ?
03:35
I'm basing that on this http://www.redhat.com/archives/k12osn/2011-March/msg00075.html which may be similar
03:37
Or /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d/05-getltsconffile ?
03:38
<ccat>
hold.
03:41
<TheProf>
holding for orders.
03:42
<ccat>
not sure what you mean ---- where is the exe you activate by cmd or click
03:42
-- re the paths that is
03:43
<TheProf>
ccat: I haven't activated any command that then loads lts.conf
03:44
<ccat>
no no, however you start up ltsp
03:44
<TheProf>
I don't do anything. It's a prebuilt distribution. it starts everything automatically from bootup
03:45
<stgraber>
TheProf: ok, so which lts.conf did you change (fulle path) and what did you put in it?
03:45
<TheProf>
ccat: Edubuntu is ubuntu + ltsp integrated together
03:45
stgraber: Hello. The full path is:
03:46
<stgraber>
TheProf: you mentioned /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64/lts.conf which seems a bit odd for Edubuntu as we typically only ship a 32bit chroot, making that path /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf instead.
03:46
<TheProf>
the path is /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64/lts.conf
03:47
I determined that by locate lts.conf
03:47
and it's what I navigate to to edit
03:47
under ltsp I only have amd64 no i386 entry
03:47
<ccat>
y, but the ltsp runtime must be somewhere
03:48
<stgraber>
ok, that's not a typical Edubuntu install or if it is, that's a pretty old one. We've been only shipping i386 chroots for the past few years...
03:48
TheProf: ok, so what's in there now?
03:48
<TheProf>
stgraber: this is a clean install of the 12.04 LTS which I have incrementally updated as point releases are available.
03:48
Currenlty in the file there is
03:49
[default]
03:49
SOUND=false
03:49
SCREEN_07=shell
03:50
a blank enter line
03:50
and 2 more commented out lines:
03:50
#[00:22:64:BB:60:A8]
03:50
#SCREEN_01=shell
03:50
that's all
03:50
this setup will cause the thin client to not boot entirely
03:50
if I remove the blank enter line, it will boot up to a GUI and I can log in
03:51
but it's ignoring any of the settings in the lts.conf file
03:53
<ccat>
stgraber: are there debug cmdline switches that would show some status of the conf read?
03:53
<stgraber>
ccat: no
03:53
TheProf: so there's nothing obviously wrong with that config. It should indeed turn off sound support and get you into a shell instead of starting the GUI.
03:54
<TheProf>
stgraber: right. Except it doesn't do either. I have a gui and full sound.
03:54
But if I make a change in lts.conf it doesn't like it won't boot properly.
03:55
<stgraber>
TheProf: makes me wonder if there's something wrong with the content of that file, that's not immediately visible to the naked eye. Can you do "base64 /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64/lts.conf" and pastebin the result (pastebin.com and give me the resulting url)
03:56
<TheProf>
I can get it to boot by removing the blank line between screen and the commented out mac address but it will still not follow the settings.
03:56
Sure
03:57
stgraber: here it is: http://pastebin.com/tQF1n347
03:57
<ccat>
and if you try to do both at the same time in two different [sect] it will not even boot
03:58
<TheProf>
ccat: Yup that's very weird indeed.
04:00
<stgraber>
TheProf: that looks fine...
04:01
<TheProf>
OK.
04:03
<stgraber>
TheProf: sorry I can't help much more, that config really looks like it should be working, you may have more chance with alkisg or vagrantc whenever they show up (although I maintain LTSP in Ubuntu and Edubuntu, I haven't poked at the code in years...)
04:05
<TheProf>
stgraber: thanks for looking into it. vagrantc was helping earlier but we dodm
04:05
dodm
04:05
oh man!
04:05
didn't!
04:06
have a solution before he had to go.
04:06
<ccat>
TheProf: open a cmd line window
04:06
<TheProf>
ccat: I've got one.
04:07
<ccat>
ok, type "strings -h"
04:08
did it do anything?
04:09
<TheProf>
ccat: a whole bunch of help settings
04:09
<ccat>
just type "strings"
04:12
<TheProf>
ccat: sorry standby, phone call
04:13
<ccat>
... dum dee dum doo dee da da Da doo dee dum.... (ascii hold-music)
04:17
<TheProf>
ccat: Sorry about that! It seems I've got to head out, and it's probably good since I've been banging my head about this for the past 5 hours.
04:17
ccat: Thanks very much for all your help.
04:18
stgraber: thank you also.
04:18
<ccat>
can you wait 5 more min?
04:18
TheProf: ?
04:18
<TheProf>
ccat: with an ill spouse calling me? not if i value my life :)
04:18
<ccat>
ok, real quick
04:19
#1 try -- strings conf-file > clean-conf file
04:19
#2 try removing indents from all val lines
04:19
# good luck :D
04:20
ps --http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/lucid/en/man1/strings.1.html
04:21
<TheProf>
ccat: thanks I've saved the log to deal with it later. Bye!
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04:21
<ccat>
ok bb hurry!
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06:48
<ccat>
.
06:48
hello: Does your LDM and this LDM have anything in common? http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/ldm/ldm-current/manindex.html
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07:00
<work_alkisg>
ccat: no
07:00work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
07:02
<ccat>
alkisg: ok, ty ---- BTW...
07:02
http://wiki.x2go.org/doku.php/doc:faq
07:02
"LTSP requires a high bandwidth on your network. It can efficiently be used in Local Area Networks (LANs) only."
07:03
y/n?
07:04
<alkisg>
ccat: let's say yes
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07:05
<alkisg>
But it'd make more sense to state your requirements and ask for advice, instead of asking yes/no questions
07:06
For example, I could use ltsp-client just as a "deep-freeze + remote authentication + remote /home" method, to boot an ltsp client from its local disk and connect to the ltsp server over WAN. The performance there would be fine...
07:07
(ltsp *fat* client)
07:10
<ccat>
alkisg: well after reading the wiki a bit, thought that site might be mischaracterizing ltps just a little
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07:12
<ccat>
alkisg: my needs though would be for a remote graphics workstation desktop -- but ltsp is mostly for just the initial boot if i understand right
07:12
<alkisg>
LTSP is a framework upon which you can do a lot of stuff
07:13
E.g. you could use virtualgl to propage 3d over the network, upon ltsp
07:13
LTSP is about remote graphics, sure, but you do need to realize that remote graphics isn't as simple as it sounds
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07:14
<ccat>
alkisg: more info please?
07:14
<alkisg>
You need to describe your requirements more
07:14
Which programs you'll run, client/server specs etc
07:14
E.g. if you want 3d over the network on ancient clients, just forget it :)
07:15
As vagrantc said, for multimedia apps, fat clients are the best way to go, as long as their specs as good enough
07:15
(ltsp fat clients)
07:16
XV makes it possible to stream video at low bitrates, so just for video playback, the requirements aren't very high
07:16
There are lots of technologies involved, but you should specify exactly what you need, to select the best options
07:17
<ccat>
alkisg: examples: cad, solid-modeling (eg Blender) ---- Just want to send the screen and receive the gui inputs --- All processing on server
07:18
<alkisg>
ccat: there's no good technology for what you ask
07:18
<ccat>
-- send the screen at 30 to 60 fps
07:19
<alkisg>
The graphics cards on the server aren't designed to provide acceleration to multiple clients
07:19
<ccat>
oh?, hmmmmm
07:19
<alkisg>
So you need to change your requirements to something that's doable
07:19
You can try with e.g. linux virtualgl or windows remotefx, but don't expect good *or* stable results
07:20
<ccat>
no, just whatever is on the screen, send to the client --- like a transparent link
07:20
<alkisg>
Maybe after 5-10 years, the *VM software will mature enough to push the graphics cards vendors to support your use case
07:20
On what screen?
07:20
1 server screen for all clients?
07:21
It's a "virtual" screen. For 10 clients, you have 10 virtual screens on the server, *without* 3d acceleration
07:22
So it'll fallback to software 3d acceleration, which is extremely slow, no CPU exists that could do that for 10 clients
07:23
...in other words, my advice to you is "get good clients that can run those apps locally. ltsp is nice to netboot all of them then from a single image"
07:23
<ccat>
alkisg: y, 1 server with graphics card as usual but no monitor or kb or mouse -- just sending that image and receiving those inputs from 1 client at a time even if multiple clients are connected
07:24
<alkisg>
Ah, if you only want a single client, then that could be doable
07:24
What are the client specs? cpu/ram/graphics card?
07:25
<ccat>
alkisg: basically its a remote desktop -- but cant tell if any of the remote-desktop projects can send graphics_CARD picture as opposed to normal internal-gpu image
07:26
<alkisg>
Does this "remote desktop" support 3d?
07:26
Because if it doesn't, you can't use some of the available solutions
07:27
<ccat>
alkisg: ideally it would be a cheap client, as it is basically a visual terminal --- so ideally it does no processing but for visual i/o -- so it should not need 3d anything
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07:28
<alkisg>
Sending 3d commands on the client to render them makes the server use less network bandwidth, so it might strain the server and the client and the network less
07:29
Anyways... from what you've said so far, I'd look at http://www.virtualgl.org/About/Introduction
07:30
<ccat>
alkisg: well, just thought, if you can make a screen-shot of a video-card image, then you can send said screenshots as fast as they can be made --- so it Should be feasible even if it is not yet available
07:30
<alkisg>
You could use that over ltsp, or not... the "where to boot from" part is more standard
07:30
ccat: just try to find one program to record your desktop on linux. You'll be very dissapointed :)
07:31
Making a video stream out of a video card stream is not as easy as it sounds
07:31
<ccat>
alkisg: y, v-gl might be nice but don't know if faster to send image on slow conn, or compute image on slow pc
07:31
<alkisg>
You want 3d over the network *and* a slow network?
07:32
...you'd better change your requirements :)
07:32
<vagrantc>
1 + 2 + 3 = 100
07:33
don't let reality constrain your dreams, but don't let your dreams stop you from implementing something real.
07:33
<ccat>
alkisg: well, meant "slow" sending as opposed "fast" local generation on server
07:34
<alkisg>
ccat: compressing 2 gbps is not fast. Sending a few 3d rendering commands is.
07:34
!flash
07:34
<ltsp`>
flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
07:34
<alkisg>
...2.5 gbps... :)
07:35
<vagrantc>
so you just need 10GB network cards in all the clients, no problem.
07:35
<alkisg>
And a 50-core cpu...
07:36
<vagrantc>
well, you could get by with 25 dual-core CPUs
07:36
<ccat>
alkisg: what is the x4 there
07:37
<alkisg>
32 bits per pixel = 4 bytes
07:37* vagrantc wonders if theprof ever got the issue figured out
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07:37
<alkisg>
It's badly written, it should say 32 instead of 4, since it calculates bps and not Bps
07:37
<ccat>
vagrantc: so you are saying a laptop just the size of a small refrigerator? and connected to one as well? :)
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07:38
<ccat>
alkisg: y, but you are computing bits/s, not bytes/s
07:39
vagrantc: not yet -- tbc
07:39
<alkisg>
Yes that's what I said in my previous line above ^
07:39
<ccat>
alkisg: oh, sorry, things get lost while replying :)
07:41
<vagrantc>
alkisg: hope to get 5.5.1 out tomorrow or maybe the next day for real this time
07:41
<alkisg>
vagrantc: cool, I think it'll be a nice stable long-lasting version
07:41
...until the next release 1 week after that :P
07:41
<vagrantc>
heh
07:43* vagrantc waves
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07:44
<ccat>
alkisg: if you can watch live streaming ok-quality video over a 2Mbs conn, then why can't you send screenshots that fast?
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07:44
<alkisg>
Because decompressing is very easier than compressing
07:44
And screen playback very easier than screen grabbing
07:45
<ccat>
alkisg: hmmmmmmmmm
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07:53
<alkisg>
ccat: how many clients are you going to deploy?
07:56
<ccat>
alkisg: don't know how many, but only 1 at a time needing any server support regardless of how many "logged in"
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08:01
<ccat>
alkisg: basically just as if 1 client
08:02
<alkisg>
Then buy a good client instead of a good server
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08:04
<ccat>
alkisg: how good IS good here?
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08:05
<alkisg>
Try to run blender locally and check for yourself :)
08:05
<ccat>
--- and what is it doing with that power
08:05
hmmmm
08:11
alkisg:still, a powerful enough server (but how powerful??) can compress "fast" so why would it not be like sending the client a video stream? Those little wireless pan-tilt cameras send 30fps video
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08:22
<ccat>
alkisg: sorry, trying to plan the system Before buying anything that could pass the real tests -- hard to do
08:22
<alkisg>
ccat: sure, that's why I asked you about how many clients, to help you in planning
08:22
I.e. if it would be best to buy good clients or good server
08:23
The cameras compress video because they have hardware chips that do that
08:23
CPUs aren't optimized for that. You need a dual core cpu to compress a single video, and not an HD one
08:24
<ccat>
alkisg: too bad can't point camera at screen and run camera app on client !
08:30
<alkisg>
Yes... zero clients try to do that, more or less, but they too still have problems
08:40
<ccat>
alkisg: is "zero client" same as "kvm extender" ?
08:42
<alkisg>
No
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08:48
<ccat>
alkisg: maybe... same as kvm-extender over network?
08:53
<cyberorg>
alkisg, hi, got a question, how is nbd swap handled now? earlier we had xinetd create one on the fly for the client
08:53
<alkisg>
cyberorg: nbd-server runs standalone now, not from inetd,
08:53
so we have a prep script that creates it on the fly
08:53
nbdswapd...
08:54
/etc/nbd-server/conf.d/swap.conf => prerun = nbdswapd %s
08:54
ltsp-config nbd-server should create the swap.conf too
08:54
<cyberorg>
alkisg, ok, thanks :)
08:55
<alkisg>
np
08:55
!learn alkisg-todo as implement ltsp-config aoe
08:55
<ltsp`>
The operation succeeded.
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21:06
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: can you test https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1040638 with a newer ltspfs, e.g. the one in greek schools ppa, or the one in 14.04?
21:07
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, not sure how exactly
21:07
I don't run 14.04, nor Greek schools ppa I think.
21:07
Nor do I have any USB drives.
21:08
<alkisg>
You no longer have the WD disk you reported?
21:08
<Hyperbyte>
Wow.
21:08
I reported that?
21:08
<alkisg>
Yup, that's why I pinged you... :)
21:08
<Hyperbyte>
Hah, I did.
21:08
I think that must've been a colleagues drive.
21:09
Honestly I don't know what to say.
21:10
This was nearly two years ago... I had just started experimenting with LTSP.
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21:10
<Hyperbyte>
Well, not really
21:10
But I don't know what else to tell you about this.
21:10
<alkisg>
OK, np, I just thought I'd help there but if you no longer have the drive you don't need the fix either :)
21:11
<Hyperbyte>
Well, there were a lot of problems back then I think.
21:11
USB DVD drives didn't work, I think you or vagrant gave me some custom "cdpinger" to remedy that
21:11
Maybe that also solved the WD problem, not sure.
21:18
<gbaman>
what is the best way to manage users?
21:19
mainly best graphical client to manage them and more importantly, how can I let users change their passwords?
21:24
<alkisg>
Fat clients or thin clients?
21:24
gbaman: ^
21:25
<gbaman>
fat
21:25
Raspberry Pis
21:25
which were tested for the first time in a classroom today with 7 :)
21:25
I have a very happy teacher
21:25
but he was curious how he can handle users
21:25
<alkisg>
You need to run the password changing UI as an ltsp-remoteapp
21:26* vagrantc has been experimenting with u-boot on raspberry pi
21:26
<vagrantc>
should make for much easier network booting
21:26
<alkisg>
There are several GUIs for managing users. Here in Greece we didn't like any of them and we developed our own solution :D We hope to internationalize it in the future...
21:26
<vagrantc>
then the SD card just needs the RPI firmware and u-boot
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21:27
<gbaman>
The sd card currently uses the solution you came up with earlier vagrantc, having the kernel on the sd card
21:27
so it isnt available in english alkisg?
21:27* alkisg hopes kexec will be very stable in the future so that we could use any old local kernel just for setting up networking + downloading the initramfs...
21:27
<alkisg>
gbaman: no, it isn't
21:28
<vagrantc>
working towards only having u-boot on the SD card, so that you can download the latest kernel off the network just like the rest of the OS
21:28
<gbaman>
hmm, would be nice vagrantc
21:28
we are due to run another test tomorrow with 15 pis with 15 kids
21:28
only thing we havent be able to get working yet is Minecraft Pi edition, some weird issue with vchiq
21:28
<alkisg>
gbaman: and the teacher was happy with the PI's performance?
21:29
<gbaman>
yes
21:29
<alkisg>
Nice!
21:29
<gbaman>
his comment was it wasnt any noticeably slower than sd card booting
21:29
the entire network he is using is 10/100mbit
21:30
so tomorrow with 15 pis will be the big test
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21:30
<gbaman>
Then I am down to give a talk on this at the Raspberry Jamboree on Friday in front of 200-300 people, large chunk of them teachers
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21:31
<gbaman>
Talk will also be recorded
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21:32
<alkisg>
Heh, netbooting via u-boot sounds easy, it obviously contains the most common drivers needed... http://kernelnomicon.org/?p=327
21:32
<vagrantc>
i always thought i was tolerant of slow computes, but found the rpi to be fairly un-useable
21:32
gbaman: what magic did you work?! :)
21:32
<gbaman>
overclocking!
21:32
:)
21:32
na, pis nicely run idle, libre writer etc
21:32
<alkisg>
And on a 10/100 network? Probably Job's patience pills...
21:33
<gbaman>
well alkisg, thats the bit I really dont understand..
21:33
I though am not in the room, skyping him as he is miles away
21:33
so can not verify it myself
21:33
but he was happy
21:33
so I am happy :)
21:34
<alkisg>
Maybe he had other reasons... from the previous night... to be happy... :P
21:34
<gbaman>
sigh
21:34
<alkisg>
Libreoffice reads 120 MB the first time it's loaded
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21:34
<alkisg>
For 15 clients loading it simultaneously on a 100 mbps network, that's a lot more than 1 minute
21:35
Students don't have that much patience...
21:36
<gbaman>
Hopefully, he is getting a gigabit switch in next week for more testing
21:36
but we are stuck with 100mbit for now
21:36
it will be interesting to see anyway
21:36
and of course, in real world, students dont all open it at the same time
21:36
in our tests, they did
21:37
<alkisg>
In the real world the teachers says "double click on exercise.odt", or "type that in libreoffice", so they do open it simultaneously very frequently
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21:38
<gbaman>
true
21:38* vagrantc waves to sbalneav1
21:38* vagrantc waves to sbalneav
21:38
<gbaman>
i was asked again by his network manager, can we not just use wifi..
21:38
<alkisg>
If it needs e.g. 1 minute to load, it doesn't have to be exactly simultaneously, you can launch it 30 seconds apart and still have delay issues
21:39
<vagrantc>
wifi == terrible performance
21:39
<gbaman>
thats what i told him
21:39
so basically said no :)
21:40
Was funny, when the pis booted, I could see them but they couldnt see me, as I watched as his network manager came in and informed the teacher they must be thin clients and there was no way fat clients could possibly boot that fast
21:41
or be that response on that network
21:41
<vagrantc>
huh
21:42
<gbaman>
*reponsive
21:42
<vagrantc>
i guess i've only tested on a pi with 256MB of ram... that extra 512M probably makes a big difference then
21:42
<gbaman>
yes, these were all 512mb pis
21:42
model B rev 2
21:42
<vagrantc>
i think i have model b rev 1
21:43
<gbaman>
Is interesting, they make a lot of changes to the OS for the official foundation sd images
21:43
which I have had to replicate in my script
21:44* vagrantc never booted an r6pi foundation image
21:44
<gbaman>
well that will explain it
21:44* vagrantc wonders if they ever released the source code
21:44
<gbaman>
their images have got faster and faster as they optimise it
21:45
am guessing you had initially used the soft float debian version?
21:45
<vagrantc>
just raspbian
21:45
<gbaman>
ah ok
21:45
<vagrantc>
which is what the rpi foundation uses
21:45
<alkisg>
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/pcs/2012/04/16/raspberry-pi-review/4
21:45
A dual core CPU is more than 100 times faster than pi... :P
21:45
<gbaman>
raspbian uses hardfloat
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21:45
<gbaman>
that was a while ago :D
21:46
but yes
21:46
still likely
21:46
but for £28?
21:46
and one can run the pi up to 1000MHz
21:47
as i do for all my pis
21:47
the images built by my script are only clocked at 800MHz
21:47
<alkisg>
The default is 700?
21:48
<gbaman>
yes
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21:48
<alkisg>
OK so then only 87,5 times faster than pi...
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21:48
<gbaman>
one can easily overclock it up to 1GHz, is even built into the setup whiptail script, an option to do so
21:48
:)
21:49
<vagrantc>
the MHz comparisons are not really meaningful
21:49
<||cw>
doyou need to add a heat sink to do that?
21:49
<alkisg>
My 386 CPU from 1991 should have about the same speed :P
21:49
<gbaman>
what they have done though is optimise the OS and software that runs on it
21:49
<alkisg>
I think they used some benchmark program in that page above ^
21:49
<||cw>
also, compare speed to watts ratio
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21:50
<||cw>
or get complicated an add speed to watts to cost
21:50
<gbaman>
too much maths...
21:50
again though, arguing does not really matter, schools are already getting them
21:50
<||cw>
though you can get a P4 with speedstep that's not a lot of power and like $50 and very good performance as a thin client
21:50
<alkisg>
If it's too slow and can't be used in classrooms, the watts don't matter at all for this use case
21:51
<vagrantc>
it's only recent intel procs where they start comparing to the computer power per watt
21:52
<gbaman>
they just gave away 5000 to schools in the UK, 100 schools got 20 pis each
21:52
so there is 100 schools with pis
21:52
who will want to make good use of them
21:52* vagrantc wonders how the math on that works
21:52
<gbaman>
and thin client is already ruled out
21:52
first 100 got 20 pis
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21:52
<gbaman>
rest got 5 pis each
21:52
<vagrantc>
ah
21:53
<gbaman>
they werent expecting 750 schools to ask for pis..
21:53
thin clients are ruled out as kids need access to GPIO pins
21:53
to do hardware hacking
21:54
<vagrantc>
do you give them root?
21:54
<gbaman>
By default, the foundation images ship with default user (pi) in sudoers file
21:54
without need to enter password
21:54
<vagrantc>
yes, but with your ltsp setup
21:54
<gbaman>
currently, no
21:55
as my trial school isnt using GPIO pins yes
21:55
*yet
21:55
but am leaning towards yes
21:55
<alkisg>
(11:53:35 μμ) gbaman: thin clients are ruled out as kids need access to GPIO pins => I bet you could easily provide access to those with localapps or with socat...
21:55
<gbaman>
but having an option for it
21:56
<vagrantc>
i also noticed that the rpi even gives non-root users access to write to the SD card
21:56
at least with LTSP, localdevs kick in and whee!
21:56
<gbaman>
also applications like minecraft pi only run on the pi
21:56
as they do something weird with the GPU
21:57
<vagrantc>
i guess my setup also didn't use GPU acceleration
21:57
<gbaman>
The raspberry pi is nightmare for security, but that wasnt its point
21:57
<vagrantc>
so if you get that working, you'd probably get a big performance boost
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21:58
<gbaman>
it wasnt and isnt meant to be a impregnable fortress
21:58
was designed to give kids an opportunity to play with linux
21:58
<vagrantc>
sure, but it's also an easy oversight
21:58
if you start using thin clients for testing purposes or whatever ...
21:58
<gbaman>
vagrantc: a lot of stuff on the pi is now hardware accelerated
21:58
<vagrantc>
gbaman: what else is there?
21:58
<gbaman>
true
21:58
?
21:59
what else what?
21:59
<vagrantc>
gbaman: what else other than the GPU is hardware accelerated
21:59
<gbaman>
I am meaning software running on the pi now makes a lot more use of the GPU directly
22:00
<vagrantc>
got it
22:00
<gbaman>
things like minecraft pi
22:00
they are also working on some alternative to X (I think?) which makes much heavier use of the GPU
22:00
<vagrantc>
hard to imagine that working well... is it also more limited in scope?
22:00
<gbaman>
have forgotten its name now..
22:02
weston?
22:02
weston/wayland!
22:02
and a gpu accelerated web browser
22:03
cant remember if that is included now by default..
22:03lee___ is now known as lee
22:04
<gbaman>
anyways, it is very usable, especially with killer apps like sonic pi, minecraft pi etc
22:04
mathematica is now available on pi
22:04
and oracle have a custom version of java for the pi now
22:05
anyways, that still hasnt solved my issues with user management!
22:06
vagrantc: how can kids change their password?
22:09
<vagrantc>
gbaman: in what context?
22:09
<gbaman>
with fat clients
22:09
Need a way that they can change their own passwords?
22:09
<vagrantc>
ssh server passwd
22:09
<gbaman>
...
22:09
<vagrantc>
could also make it a localapp
22:09
<gbaman>
and how does one do that?
22:10
<vagrantc>
er, not localapp, remoteapp
22:10
<gbaman>
all the kids will have a default password and when they log on, will be told to change it
22:10
<vagrantc>
probably some gui tool on the server you could run as a remoteapp
22:10* gbaman wants the greek user management software now...
22:10
<gbaman>
:(
22:10
<vagrantc>
hrm. remoteapps are poorly documented
22:11
not even in lts.conf
22:11
<gbaman>
i know!
22:11
most of LTSP is poorly documented!
22:11
thats why I am on here so much!
22:11
:)
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22:12
<vagrantc>
gbaman: seems like you know enough to start contributing to improving it, though! :P
22:12
i've only done some basic remoteapps testing
22:12
<gbaman>
I really should get round to helping out
22:12
maybe when this pi LTSP thing is done...
22:12
if it is ever done..
22:13
<vagrantc>
nothing is ever truely done, it just reaches certain points
22:13
<gbaman>
also, the other question I meant to ask vagrantc, one from the teacher
22:13
we are keeping the local sd card images on the sd cards
22:13
so the kids can in theory take them home
22:14
but need some way they can easily swap the 2 config files on the boot partition
22:14
that control whether it boots via LTSP or locally
22:14
need some way to let them switch, hopefully without another computer...
22:15
is there some way we could run a script early on, before it starts waiting for an OS from the server?
22:15
<vagrantc>
the SD cards have a complete OS on them?
22:15
<gbaman>
yes
22:15
well, a completely different one from the server
22:15
but yes
22:15
<vagrantc>
hrm.
22:15
<gbaman>
best thing would be if they hold down a key for example when it boots?
22:15
it switches?
22:16
<vagrantc>
if you had a real bootloader on there, maybe
22:16
<gbaman>
:)
22:16
<vagrantc>
you could run a hook from the initramfs that swaps the files around and then reboots
22:16
<gbaman>
if a key is being held down?
22:17
<vagrantc>
it would require writing it
22:17
<gbaman>
..
22:17
<vagrantc>
i.e. no such software exists that i'm aware of out-of-the box
22:17
<gbaman>
:(
22:18
how far along is your bootloader idea?
22:18
<vagrantc>
i envisioned a timeout that waits say 5 seconds and just boots as normal if you don't change anything
22:18
<gbaman>
well that is also a possibility
22:19
<vagrantc>
u-boot mainline works, but doesn't have usb (and thus network) support yet
22:19
<gbaman>
ahh
22:19
:(
22:19
<vagrantc>
there appear to be patches on the maintainer's branch of u-boot
22:19
<gbaman>
https://github.com/gonzoua/u-boot-pi ?
22:19
<vagrantc>
also, i had a number of weird problems with the booted OS ... u-boot may not be initializing the hardware quite right
22:20
https://github.com/swarren/u-boot
22:20
swarren is listed as the maintainer of the rpi board in u-boot mainline
22:21
i was thinking of giving a try to swarren's branch sometime after getting ltsp 5.5.1 uploaded
22:21
so maybe later this week
22:21
<gbaman>
whats new in 5.5.1?
22:21
<vagrantc>
just a few bugfixes
22:21
nothing too exciting
22:22
<gbaman>
is there a gui ever coming?
22:22
<vagrantc>
there are GUIs all over the place
22:23
we're hoping to get rid of the only GUI that's LTSP-specific for LTSP6 ... i.e. LDM
22:23
<gbaman>
not seen many updated any time recently
22:24
wait, but...
22:24
LDM...
22:24
<vagrantc>
that's a GUI
22:24
<gbaman>
it is useful!
22:24
<vagrantc>
for LTSP6, people will have to learn the commandline.
22:25
<gbaman>
wait, so you want people to login using commandline?
22:25
whats wrong with LDM?
22:25* vagrantc is trolling
22:25
<vagrantc>
gbaman: what's wrong with LDM is it doesn't sanely support logins, which is it's one purpose. it's got some serious design flaws.
22:25
<gbaman>
well yes, did notice that
22:26
it lets you log in, and that is about it
22:26
no ability to force a user to change passwords!
22:26
<vagrantc>
so we're going to work on hooking into existing more well-established DMs ... i.e. lightdm, GDM, KDM, etc.
22:26
<gbaman>
that can force the user to change their password?
22:27
<vagrantc>
that's one of the main goals, yes.
22:27
<gbaman>
:)
22:27
timescale?
22:27
<vagrantc>
basically we've got a pam plugin that the DM authenticates against
22:28
proof of concept already exists... was really hoping to have it ready for Debian's next release, but haven't had the time to drive it through
22:28
i.e. i'd like to have it reasonably ready by end of July or so...
22:28
but that might be overly optimistic
22:29
<gbaman>
whens jessie freeze?
22:30
<vagrantc>
"Reminder: we will freeze Jessie on Wednesday, 5th November, 2014."
22:30
<gbaman>
ah
22:30
thats quite some time away
22:30
<vagrantc>
so i want it "ready" by end of july, so we can polish it up for a few months before the freeze
22:30
<gbaman>
ah
22:31
<vagrantc>
otherwise, it'll have to wait for jessie+1
22:31
but i haven't managed to get that rolling
22:32
<gbaman>
ohh, just found "LTSPManager"
22:32
which hasnt been touched since 2007
22:32
<vagrantc>
gbaman: hopefully you don't make the mistake of running it on anything you want to work
22:32
<gbaman>
so you recommending I stay away from it vagrantc?
22:34
<vagrantc>
i guess it's only 7 years out of date, what could possibly go wrong. :P
22:34
is that ogra's project?
22:34
<gbaman>
yes
22:36
anyways, bbl
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23:16
<Gbaman_>
another question vagrantc from this teacher, shared folders?
23:16
best way to do that?
23:17
<vagrantc>
for fatclients ... hrm.
23:17
<Gbaman_>
he wants a shared read only (for students) network drive basically
23:18
<vagrantc>
should be able to mount it using FSTAB_XX or something
23:18* Gbaman_ reminds vagrantc that gbaman is new to a lot of this
23:20
<Gbaman_>
was just reading through the greek schools wiki (via google translate)... i want sch-scripts..
23:21
in english..
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23:23
<Gbaman_>
it is the little things like that
23:23
that arent documented anywhere
23:23
<vagrantc>
it's documented in lts.conf
23:23
for FSTAB stuff
23:23
<Gbaman_>
that and passwords for example
23:23
or ways to manage users
23:24
and remoteapps :D
23:24
<vagrantc>
managing users is not LTSP specific
23:25
allthough passwords are a little weird with fatclients
23:25
<Gbaman_>
which is understandable
23:25
the entire thing about fat clients is weird! i dont think all the kids in that testing class today fully understand what was going on
23:26
<vagrantc>
one of the goals of LTSP is that the users don't notice any difference from a "normal" computer
23:26
still have a ways to go with that
23:26
<Gbaman_>
true, but it is a good start
23:27
i am running LTSP fat clients on an old computer room in my own school and it works perfectly
23:27
not pis
23:27
<vagrantc>
glad to hear it
23:28
<Gbaman_>
normal computers
23:28
all running nicely off an old mac mini
23:28
solely to run arduino ide
23:28
as the machines themselves run xp and have some weird group policy stuff
23:29
so arduino was a fat no
23:29
but it works seamlessly
23:29
and was surprisingly easy to set up for one with the pnp guide
23:29
*once
23:30
is the 30+ kids first ever use of linux, has gone down well
23:30
<vagrantc>
yeah, ltsp-pnp stuff is probably the best innovation i've seen in ltsp since ltsp5
23:31
<Gbaman_>
well, until a kid somehow decided it would be a good idea to turn off his friends computer, hit the wrong plug and turned the server off..
23:31
and all machines froze
23:31
<vagrantc>
right
23:32
generally good to keep those machines out of reach
23:32
<Gbaman_>
:)
23:32
have learnt that now
23:33
it was out of reach, just the plug for the extension cable wasnt :)
23:33
<vagrantc>
heh
23:34
<Gbaman_>
have moved it all anyway now
23:34
kids seemed to pick up ubuntu quite quickly which is good
23:35
btw, is there an easy way currently to push files out to every user account?
23:38
as the teacher has suggested shared drive + ability for him to drop files into all the kids folders
23:39
am thinking might just write a script to iterate through folders in /home?
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