IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 24 June 2019 (all times are UTC)
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| 18:05 | <gbaman> Any suggestions for debugging ldm starting issues? Giving LTSP a go with Buster on a Pi and looks like ldm is starting, then falling over. The ldm log just says its starting then running rc.d init scripts, then repeats same 5-10 seconds later
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| 18:06 | <alkisg> gbaman: thin or fat chroot?
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| 18:06 | <gbaman> Fat
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| 18:07 | <alkisg> Do you have anything in lts.conf?
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| 18:07 | E.g. autologin or xrandr or x_smart_color_depth...
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| 18:08 | Also check /var/log/ldm.log and /var/log/Xorg.?.log
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| 18:09 | <gbaman> [default]
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| 18:09 | LTSP_CONFIG=True
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| 18:09 | LTSP_FATCLIENT=true
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| 18:09 | REMOTE_APPS=True
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| 18:09 | INIT_COMMAND_RM_NBD_CHECKUPDATE="rm -rf /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/I01-nbd-checkupdate"
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| 18:09 | LOCAL_APPS_EXTRAMOUNTS=/home/shared
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| 18:09 | Thats the lts.conf
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| 18:10 | And ldm.log has "INFO: starting on client with IP address : 10.0.12.92" and "INFO: calling rc.d init scripts" every 5-10 seconds
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| 18:10 | <alkisg> I guess that's just xorg resetting, what's there on xorg.log or xorg.log.old?
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| 18:13 | <gbaman> I think I have a hunch what it might be, buried in there is a fb driver error
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| 18:16 | Looks like Raspberry Pi Foundation switched to their fancy new graphics driver being enabled by default
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| 18:22 | Unless anything else in there stands out to you alkisg? https://pastebin.com/jzMwNRVY
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| 18:23 | <alkisg> gbaman: try SCREEN_02=shell in lts.conf. From there, type just this: xinit
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| 18:23 | If you see an xterm, then xorg is working ok, and it might be an ldm issue
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| 18:27 | <gbaman> I have a very basic looking xterm up in the top left of the screen (with white background) alkisg
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| 18:28 | (when I say very basic, am talking a while box with a prompt up top left, that's all)
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| 18:29 | <alkisg> !cheap-client
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| 18:29 | <ltsp`> cheap-client: https://www.gearbest.com/tv-box-c_11262/?attr=2081-1279
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| 18:30 | <gbaman> Haha, that doesn't solve the actual issue :)
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| 18:31 | Plus, apparently at least a million Pis now sold into education each year now (according to figures from this morning), so not going to help them either
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| 18:32 | <alkisg> gbaman: hehe, I didn't paste that for you! :)
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| 18:32 | I needed it in some mail I was writing
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| 18:33 | Re: xterm, then it sounds like xorg is ok
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| 18:33 | <gbaman> Haha, well Pi 4 should be in your cheap client list nowadays, pretty powerful machine
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| 18:33 | <alkisg> Yeah I think it's around half the power of the pentium 4's we want to throw away :P
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| 18:34 | * alkisg has 3 rpi2's and 1 rpi3... looking forward to rpi4, but wants to avoid them for schools | |
| 18:34 | <alkisg> They're fine for remote desktop or print servers, but I wouldn't want them as desktop PCs in my computer lab...
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| 18:35 | <gbaman> Haha, well from what I have seen, runs stuff a whole lot faster than pentium 4s
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| 18:35 | <alkisg> But anyway those thoughts are unrelated to the actual issue
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| 18:35 | <gbaman> True
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| 18:35 | <alkisg> Btw, I'm developing the new ltsp, it won't have ltsp-build-client anymore
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| 18:35 | So you'd need a script that would extract the sd image to a chroot
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| 18:36 | <gbaman> *Grumbles* More code to write *Grumbles* :)
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| 18:36 | <alkisg> *less code to maintain* :D
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| 18:36 | Nowadays there's vagrant and docker and vbox and and... no need for chroots
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| 18:37 | <gbaman> At some point, it would make sense to integrate it all in with pi-gen, Pi Foundations tool for building SD card images
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| 18:37 | Someday...
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| 18:38 | <alkisg> I think it'd be best if you shipped a qemu-based VM for raspberry pi "chroot"
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| 18:38 | People would be able to boot and graphically maintain it,
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| 18:38 | and the new ltsp19 supports images as sources for `ltsp-update-image`, so it would be very easy to export it
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| 18:38 | <gbaman> Well, will admit I am tempted to look at doing it all on a Pi 4
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| 18:38 | Full gigabit ethernet finally
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| 18:39 | <alkisg> They skipped nebooting though?
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| 18:39 | <gbaman> Which makes just shipping an image for the whole thing, rather appealing
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| 18:39 | Well, PiNet always has something on the card anyway
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| 18:39 | <alkisg> You'll still need a local kernel instead of just the boot-something.bin?
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| 18:39 | rpi3 can netboot without an sd card
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| 18:39 | <gbaman> The bootcode.bin method should still work for Pi 4
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| 18:39 | Just not the no sd card method
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| 18:40 | <alkisg> OK that's still better than updating the kernel/initrd locally all the tim
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| 18:40 | <gbaman> But I have a kernel on the card anyway
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| 18:40 | <alkisg> e
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| 18:40 | Why?
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| 18:40 | I tested it and it worked even on rpi2
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| 18:40 | <gbaman> Haha, just never moved away from it
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| 18:40 | <alkisg> Hehe
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| 18:40 | <gbaman> Not had the time to rewrite
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| 18:40 | Is on the (ever growing) todo list
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| 18:41 | But not overly a priority. Still got the wifi version on the todo list as well, and that does need the full kernel stuff on the card
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| 18:46 | <alkisg> Fat clients over wifi? That'd be slooooowwwwww....
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| 18:47 | <gbaman> Haha, fat clients with the filesystem cached basically
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| 18:47 | <alkisg> So just sshfs home?
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| 18:47 | <gbaman> Yeah
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| 18:48 | <alkisg> OK that'd be workable for a few clients, but in this case it's a local installation, not just "local kernel"
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| 18:48 | <gbaman> Then the initramfs having all the drivers/code to keep that image up to date
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| 18:48 | <alkisg> In the new ltsp I have code for pam-based authentication, so you'll be able to do sshfs home even without ltsp booting
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| 18:48 | <gbaman> Given plenty of environments that Ethernet doesn't work, but they still need a managed environment
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| 18:49 | :)
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| 18:49 | <alkisg> I.e. normal raspbian plus the pam/sshfs script
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| 18:49 | (no ldm anymore)
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| 18:49 | <gbaman> Well, nothing wrong with LDM :)
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| 18:49 | <alkisg> Except that it doesn't start? :D
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| 18:49 | <gbaman> Well
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| 18:49 | <alkisg> LDM won't really work with wayland
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| 18:50 | And it breaks each time .desktop files change
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| 18:50 | <gbaman> In this particular case... It is less working I will admit
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| 18:50 | <alkisg> And there's no point in having LDM when one can use all the other DMs with pam
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| 18:50 | The new ltsp doesn't even have compiled code; it's all sent as an additional initrd
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| 18:50 | There's not even an ltsp-client package
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| 18:51 | <gbaman> What is this hacking you speak of :)
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| 18:51 | This could not be *real* LTSP
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| 18:51 | <alkisg> It's a complete rewrite of ltsp
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| 18:51 | To be released in september
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| 18:51 | <gbaman> Well, I would say PiNet will stick around on this version for a while
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| 18:52 | <alkisg> Buster will have ltsp5; the next one will probably have ltsp19
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| 18:52 | <gbaman> Well, Pi Foundation jumped the gun a tad on Buster, we shouldn't really be having this conversation yet...
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| 18:53 | Guess they didn't want to include support into Stretch for the new hardware
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| 18:53 | Same thing they did for Pi 3B+ and Jessie->Stretch. Jessie never got official support for the new hardware
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| 18:53 | Anyway, any suggestions for next place to check for ldm debugging?
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| 18:54 | <alkisg> Put `set -x; exec 2>/tmp/out` in the scripts, to see which point it reaches
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| 18:56 | <gbaman> Which scripts we talking about here?
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| 18:58 | <alkisg> /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/*
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| 18:59 | <gbaman> Ok, will have a play around
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| 19:19 | <vagrantc> considering buster is in deep freeze, it's not terribly unreasonable to base new things on it
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| 19:20 | even a release date scheduled in a couple weeks
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| 20:38 | <gbaman> Ok alkisg, I am back and have done a little more tinkering. From the looks of things, the "ldm-script" file is finishing fine
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| 20:38 | Is there some level above that?
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| 20:52 | Also can confirm it isn't x that is the issue, given can run startx and it runs (although with broken stuff left right and centre)
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| 21:55 | <gbaman> alkisg this looks like getting a little closer https://pastebin.com/wnem4RvX
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