IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 3 September 2008   (all times are UTC)

00:04
<johnny>
neither..
00:04
dont' see many centos folks.. mostly ubuntu,debian,fedora,opensuse
00:04
many of them use rdesktop tho
00:06
<cyberorg>
warren, pong?
00:06
<warren>
cyberorg: see ltsp-developer
00:07
<cyberorg>
yeah saw that, sounds reasonable to make that request
00:10
you can mention that if it was open sourced we would have sent patches instead of request ;)
00:12
<johnny>
guess we just have to get swfdec better or something
00:12
<cyberorg>
johnny, that was what i was typing :P
00:13
johnny, not better, it would serve our purpose as probably it's missing feature would be flv playback if any
00:13
<johnny>
warren, look at how fedora does it where?
00:13
where do you do this hostname thing?
00:13
<warren>
johnny: hmm
00:14
johnny: grep ltsp-trunk for hostname, you'll find it
00:14
<johnny>
btw.. i see you have something like this
00:14
<warren>
cyberorg: can you get official support from someone at suse or novell?
00:14
<johnny>
[ "$ARCH" = "i586" ] && ARCH=i386
00:14
[ "$ARCH" = "i686" ] && ARCH=i386
00:14
<warren>
cyberorg: somebody that sounds official
00:14
johnny: yes, the common arch plugin is not common at all, nobody uses it.
00:15
<johnny>
no.. this is your ltsp-client-launch
00:15Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
00:15
<johnny>
not setarch
00:15
we use something like this
00:15
ARCH=$(uname -m | sed -e 's:i[3-6]86:x86:' -e 's:x86_64:amd64:' -e 's:parisc:hppa:')
00:15
<cyberorg>
warren, suse has a tie up with adobe, we ship flash-player on official dvd media, ill have to find who
00:15
<warren>
johnny: your version looks cleaner, but mine runs faster.
00:16
johnny: less pipes and forks
00:16
<johnny>
yeah.. i'm sure it does.. but not fast enough for me to care atm
00:16
<warren>
cyberorg: I don't care, we only need someone official sounding to agree to co-sign when I send this as an official request.
00:16
<cyberorg>
johnny, saw how i handled that in the script i posted?
00:16
<warren>
"Foo Bar, President of Something, Novell"
00:16
<johnny>
and this ?
00:16
TFTPPATH="/ltsp/${ARCH}/lts.conf"
00:17
what do you think about getting it from / ?
00:17
as a fallback
00:17
hmm.. i think imma put that option in my settings for ltsp-client-setup
00:17
<warren>
johnny: the way Ubuntu/Debian and Fedora does the tftp and lots of the kernel image stuff is entirely different
00:17
entirely different set of scripts
00:18
I really hate the way they do it
00:18
and it contains lots of debianisms
00:18
I also don't like set -e
00:18
also my scripts are way simpler
00:18
and I'm missing a few features as a result
00:18
<johnny>
yeah.. i'm cutting some stuff
00:18
i think imma cut hosts.ltsp
00:18
i don't really see the value
00:18
am i missing something?
00:19
<warren>
is hosts.ltsp their thing?
00:19
I don't know if I use it
00:19
<johnny>
i think it's a throwback to ltsp4
00:19
<warren>
johnny: the idea earlier is that if we don't like something upstream, write your own equivalent and later we work on making things into the common-functions files
00:19
johnny: I already redid some of their stuff to go into common files
00:20
<johnny>
i'm still just working with their stuff
00:20
and stealing your tftp code
00:20
<warren>
which tftp code?
00:20
<johnny>
in ltsp-client-launch
00:20
<warren>
ltsp-client-launch contains a great pile of lazy on my part
00:20
<johnny>
lol
00:20
<warren>
I need to be doing lots of that earlier
00:20
<johnny>
that's why i'm sticking with ltsp-client and ltsp-client-setup
00:21
<warren>
ltsp-client* is the pile of debianisms and set -e that I hate.
00:21
<johnny>
where ltsp-client depends on ltsp-client-setup, and ltsp-client-setup happens as early as it can
00:21
<warren>
I'm likely going to split ltsp-client-setup into ltsp-client-setup-early
00:21
<johnny>
nano says ..
00:21
[ "set -e" not found ]
00:22
<warren>
oh
00:22
hm
00:22
i haven't looked at it for a while
00:22
I gave up on it around January
00:22
<johnny>
i'm about to commit some updates to mine
00:22
<warren>
there is another potential issue
00:22
their initrd grabs lts.conf via tftp
00:23
mine grabs lts.conf after initrd
00:23
I don't think I'm missing any options as a result
00:23
<johnny>
no, it isn't
00:23
hmm.. modules could be loaded earlier?
00:25
i'm not finding any of that code warren
00:25
<warren>
johnny: what modules?
00:25
johnny: I'm not loading any modules
00:25
manually at least
00:26
<johnny>
i mean MODULES_xx
00:26
so.. where is this hostname stuff warren?
00:27
<warren>
hm
00:27
hmmm
00:27
I don't support MODULES_xx options, but that sounds easy to implement
00:28
I haven't found a single case where it is needed though.
00:28
nobody copmlained about it
00:29
<johnny>
i just based mine off the debian implementation.. but without most of the overhead, as gentoo init scripts are not like switch statements like debian's are
00:31loca|host has quit IRC
00:31
<warren>
johnny: client/chroot-setup/k12linux/010-etc-hosts
00:31
johnny: horrible horrible hack that auto-configs a fake hostname on each client
00:32
johnny: I'm going to make this conditional to look for a real hostname first, and fallback to fake if it doens't have one.
00:32
johnny: nobody else is using chroot-setup yet, but you can write your own handy plugins there.
00:34
johnny: does Gentoo have aufs or unionfs?
00:35
<johnny>
they use something like 127.0.0.1 $HOSTNAME
00:35
err 127.0.0.2
00:35
gentoo has ebuilds for aufs available
00:35
<cyberorg>
warren, next time if you need anything official from novell/suse just cc zonker too, he is the right person for that
00:35
<johnny>
it's not integrated into our gentoo-sources kernel
00:35
<cyberorg>
i've forwarded your mail to him
00:36
<warren>
cyberorg: thx
00:36
johnny: good, about not integrated
00:36
johnny: bad to integrate things that have no chance of going upstream
00:36
<johnny>
squashfs is patched in
00:36
<warren>
squashfs is actually heading upstream
00:36
RH is rewriting parts of it
00:37
<johnny>
yeah.. gentoo is great about focusing on upstream
00:37
except during hal.. when we couldn't get them upstreamed for a few releases
00:37
<warren>
johnny: squashfs is also a lot safer in being entirely self contained, read-only and without overlay problems to worry about.
00:37
<johnny>
now they all have
00:37
<cyberorg>
stgraber, ping
00:38
<johnny>
warren, .. this is our patched kernel
00:38
http://dev.gentoo.org/~dsd/genpatches/trunk/2.6.26/
00:38
err patches
00:39
that is the entirety of the patches of gentoo-sources
00:39
<warren>
johnny: yeah, that's a lot less patches than us
00:40
<johnny>
we offer git-sources,vanilla-sources,suspend2-sources, etc
00:40
within the portage tree
00:40
<warren>
johnny: although 95% of our patches are heading to upstream in one form or another, since we have a massive kernel team pushing stuff all the time or maintaining entire subsystems
00:40
some of our other patches wont make it upstream because Linus hates it
00:40
<cyberorg>
johnny, did i mention that our chief kernel hacker gkh is also one of the gentoo kernel maintainer?
00:40
<warren>
but we do it for security purposes
00:40
like most of execshield
00:40
<johnny>
cyberorg, i knew that
00:41
<warren>
I'm curious why nobody else ships execshield
00:41
<cyberorg>
:)
00:41
<johnny>
cyberorg, gentoo gets udev releases VERY QUICKLY
00:41
<warren>
execshield has proven itself to be problem free for many years now.
00:41
really low effort way of adding lots of security
00:42
<johnny>
warren, of course we have many other gentoo uses who maintain their own kernels, and some have grown communities around them
00:42
<warren>
yikes
00:42
I guess in our case we just beat our users until they quit, or submit things upstream.
00:43
We've been getting softer lately in that
00:43
<johnny>
well some of it is stuff like unionfs
00:43
that will never make it upstream, but are still useful to people doing real work right now
00:43
other.. is stuff like reiserfs
00:44
yuck
00:44
but i liked using con koliva's sources
00:44
been awhile since my computer has felt that fast
00:44
the new scheduler sucks
00:44
at least by default..
00:44
<warren>
you sure it is the scheduler?
00:45
Linus ripped out a piece of the VM in 2.6.26 that made it slower for everyone
00:45
forcing everyone to rewrite it properly
00:45
hasn't hit upstream yet
00:45
<johnny>
and that hits when?
00:45
oh
00:45
<warren>
I dunno
00:45
but that's an effective way to force something to get fixed
00:45
<johnny>
problems have existed since 2.6.23
00:45
<warren>
it really hurt real time everything
00:46
earlier versions of Ingo's new scheduler had many problems
00:46
but it's been awesome for me in 2.6.25
00:46
2.6.26 is back to badness
00:47
<johnny>
hmm.. let's hope it gets better.
00:48
<warren>
heh, I'm playing a 1920x1080p video over the network to a thin client
00:48
it is a little jerky
00:54
<Nubae1>
warren: where can I find ltsp installation instructions for Fedora?
00:54Nubae1 is now known as Nubae
00:55
<warren>
Nubae: https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/
00:55
<Nubae>
warren: thanks
00:55
<warren>
Nubae: upgrade ltsp-server manually from the announcement repo before doing it
00:55
Nubae: the official repo didn't get this latest version yet
00:56
<Nubae>
its for general ltsp documentation, I may not install just yet...
00:57
of course the installation parts need to be distro specific
00:57
but hopefully not much more
00:58
<warren>
Nubae: I would really point upstream doc readers at the distro's own docs instead of duplicating stuff that will quickly become out of date
00:58
Nubae: my own docs need rewriting entirely
01:04
<Nubae>
right, well, thats where I hopefully come in... I'm not pointing, but including the content that's there in terms of installation
01:04
the other stuff is non distro specific
01:04
I'm uploading to LTSP 5 documentation on launchpad...
01:05
and trying to keep it as upto date as possible, from what I understand, only Suse really works slighlty differenty, everything else can be put under common documentation
01:06
it'll be in docbook format, so hopefully u can use it to pick out what u want
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01:12
<warren>
Nubae: please remove any mention of ltsp-server-initialize
01:12
Nubae: I'm going to remove it from our package
01:12
it is too broken
01:17
<Nubae>
ok done
01:18
if there's anything else, let me know... think of os me as documentation man for the time being :-)
01:18
<warren>
Nubae: cool, are you on ltsp-developer?
01:18
Nubae: what is your name there?
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01:18
<Nubae>
ltsp-developer mailing list?
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01:20
<Nubae>
am now at least.... was really just on buntu's ltsp mailing lists... Name on launchpad is Dvanassche
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01:31
<kwak>
johnny. anyway, i think rdesktop works almost the same in different distros. My question about it is how to set it up in the lts.conf
01:31
i have screen_02 = rdesktop
01:31
rdp_server = ip_address
01:31
rdp_options = -u username -d domain.local -a 16
01:32
but i only get a grey screen with the X pointer. no login screen for W2K3 TS
01:32
<johnny>
as i said.. i've never used it
01:32
i don't know a single thing about it.. and i hope i never have to :)
01:34
<kwak>
np. i seldom use it anyway. just for the sake of configuring it. i also have parse error problem in the lts.conf
01:34
<Nubae>
johnny: lol
01:34
<kwak>
what distro are you using?
01:36
<johnny>
ubuntu and gentoo
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01:36
<johnny>
i don't think you should have spaces before and after the =
01:42
<kwak>
i tried ubuntu at the beginning of this month. it was so slow (client)
01:42
running out of time, so decided to install centos/k12ltsp
01:42
anyway, we'll check the configuration again.
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01:44
<Pascal_1>
bonjour
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01:53
<kwak>
anyone using fedora 9 with ltsp5
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02:15
<cilkay>
Yes! I have a thin client booted from Ubuntu Hardy.
02:16
<cyberorg>
kwak, use easy-ltsp to generate lts.conf, it has rdesktop configuration too, you can copy paste from example it generates
02:16
kwak, packages here http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/server:/ltsp/
02:16
<cilkay>
I made my life more complicated than it needed to be by attempting to use the dhcp server on IPCop. I just disabled that one and enabled the one in the Ubuntu and the client booted.
02:18
I was reading the installation notes on the Fedora LTSP wiki. I like the idea of creating a bridged subnet by default to avoid exactly this kind of issue. As long as the subnet doesn't clash with an existing one, it's a drop-in solution.
02:18
<kwak>
cyberborg, thanks
02:18
<cilkay>
Not to figure out what this "Client not authorized to connect business is." I recall reading about that somewhere.
02:22
ltsp-update-sshkeys; ltsp-update-image
02:24
It's aligning flux capacitors now.
02:26
And there was dancing in the streets!
02:27
I have my first LTSP client booted.
02:27
It seemed to boot faster than off the local hard disk. Strange.
02:28
It's telling me Firefox is already running. How can that be when this is the first time I'm launching it?
02:29
<johnny>
cuz you picked a user you're logged in as?
02:29
and running firefox on
02:29
?
02:29
<cilkay>
Aha. That's it.
02:29
I only have the one user.
02:29
<johnny>
make a new one
02:29
easy enough
02:29
<cilkay>
sure
02:29
<johnny>
assign computer names as user names
02:29
err I*
02:30
makes autologin a breeze to setup, or that guest login
02:30
<cilkay>
That won't work in the target environment, which is a school.
02:31
Each student has their own login.
02:31
<johnny>
yeah, my env is internet cafe... no own login..
02:31
<cilkay>
Assuming we keep the Windows Server around, I could try authenticating from it since it already has all staff and students.
02:31
<johnny>
clear out the home environments every night
02:32
here's a note i learned recently
02:32
when you make em accessible via ldap auth.. please makre sure they are like ubuntu's default group setup
02:32
where every user is in their own group, otherwise you have problems with seeing other people's devices
02:32
<cilkay>
Good tip. Thanks.
02:33
<kwak>
hi, i got a dependency error for easy-ltsp, it's looking for mono. I'm installing it in centos 5.2
02:33
<johnny>
well install mono?
02:37
<kwak>
yes, johnny, tried it. yum install mono
02:38
not found
02:38
<johnny>
it's probably in a different repository
02:38
gonna have to go look that up
02:40
<kwak>
k
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02:52
<cilkay>
How can I set the screen resolution on the client? It's actually set higher than on the server.
02:53
It works but it's not optimal.
02:53
<johnny>
look in the lts-parameters.txt file
02:53
<cilkay>
Can that be changed per client?
02:53
<johnny>
it's in your chroot for now
02:53
yes
02:53
<cilkay>
Good, thanks.
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04:19
<Nubae>
q-funk not around?
04:19
hmmm... have problems with thincan clients and hardy
04:19
probably geode related
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04:30
<generalsnus>
Heyas, where is the config file for users /home ? i want to make a shortcut on each users desktop..but i have no clue how
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04:42
<johnny>
create the launcher you want
04:42
and then just copy it in their Desktop..
04:42
that's it..
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05:44
<generalsnus>
in xubuntu when a user inserts a usb-drive, it mounts in /media/"username"/usbdisk how can i change this, so it mounts in the users home?
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06:02
<stgraber>
cyberorg: pong (sort of, I'm preparing to go to work)
06:03
<cyberorg>
stgraber, improved script http://pastebin.com/d7dfca2c6
06:03
it reads stuff from config files
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06:06
<wigwam>
hi
06:06
please, how to set splash screen for thin clients?
06:06
<generalsnus>
in xubuntu when a user inserts a usb-drive, it mounts in /media/"username"/usbdisk how can i change this, so it mounts in the users home?
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06:08
<laga>
generalsnus: patience is a virtue, please don't ask the same question twice. if someone knows the answer, they will tell you
06:15
<stgraber>
cyberorg: hmm, ok. I'm just not entirely sure why you would need a .ini config file. Any specific reason ?
06:16
<cyberorg>
stgraber, /etc/sysconfig/ica is used to change default behavior
06:17yanu_ is now known as yanu
06:18
<cyberorg>
stgraber, this is what we use http://pastebin.com/df4c3b4e
06:18
admins dont have to mess with different config files or launch scripts to change things
06:25
<stgraber>
ok, bookmarked those two. I'll have a look if we have enough people asking to implement/test that in Intrepid, we are now past feature freeze so it'd be up to our release manager as to if it's a new feature or not.
06:27
<tsurc>
when updating the sshkeys on ubuntu so allow the clients to logon how do I add keys for secondary servers?
06:28
<cyberorg>
stgraber, it is a "bugfix" ;)
06:28
<tsurc>
I've already tried the instructions in the edubuntu handbook but it doesnt work
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07:23
<coolio>
struggling to restart dhcp any tips
07:31
:'(
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08:17
<wigwam>
please, how to set video modes for thin clients?
08:17
something like vga in grub
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08:19
<cyberorg>
wigwam, see lts-parameters.txt
08:22
<wigwam>
cyberorg: thanks, but i have to set it earlier... in order to use bootsplash
08:22
<cyberorg>
wigwam, vga=791
08:22
<wigwam>
cyberorg: kernel parameter in pxelinux conf?
08:23
<cyberorg>
wigwam, pxelinux.conf/default
08:24
<wigwam>
thanks
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08:43
<sbalneav>
Morning all
08:43
ogra: FYI, I've got about 1/2 of a patch worked out for the pw expiry for hardy, I'll finish that up today, get it to you.
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09:02* ogra hugs sbalneav
09:02* cliebow cliebow blows kisses
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09:21
<tsurc>
This is going to sound crazy, but I need to change the gid of messagebus group on a dapper box, any idea how I'd do it without braking everything
09:22
cant get nis authenticated users to load usb memory sticks because they dont appear to be members of the fuse group.
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09:28
<Nubae>
ahhh... no q-funk here?
09:28
anyone who can help with the thincans?
09:28
on hardy?
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09:35
<Nubae>
warren: is lts.conf in fedora also here: /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/<arch>/lts.conf?
09:38
johnny: and gentoo?
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09:52
<Nubae>
is there somewhere a totally complete list of lts.conf variables for the very latest distributions?
09:54
<ogra>
in the recent source tree
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10:20
<warren>
Nubae: yes
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10:33
<Nubae>
warren: right now the install instructions refer to Fedora 8, can that be updated to mention only 9?
10:34
<warren>
Nubae: yes
10:34
<Nubae>
k
10:35* warren removes Fedora 8 and ltsp-server-initialize from fedora docs
10:36
<Nubae>
there is also this: ltsp-build-client If your server is running Fedora 9 but you want to build a Fedora 8 chroot, add --release=8 to the command.
10:36
is there any reason for someone to be building a fedora 8 chroot?
10:39
I shall add, this document assumes you have a working Fedora 9 insallation :-)
10:39
<warren>
no
10:39
<bjohnson>
hi. I'm trying to set up a new server for existing ltsp-4.2 clients (not pwoerful enough for ltsp 5) and am getting an error that I haven't seen before that I haven't been able to troubleshoot. Error is "nfs: server 192.168.0.5 not responding, still trying" after "Freeing ram used by initramfs"
10:39
<Nubae>
no to a, or to b?
10:39* ogra shakes his head about http://dev.chromium.org/developers/how-tos/build-instructions-linux
10:39
<ogra>
"Note: There is no working Chromium-based browser on Linux." ...
10:39
"Internally, our development platform has been a variant of Ubuntu"...
10:40
why the heck do they develop on linux but dont compile for it ...
10:40
tsk
10:40
<bjohnson>
my nfs server is running and I can mount on another linux machine on the same subnet .. so shouldn't be general nfs or firewall problems
10:40
<rjune>
Chromium? isn't that the a top down game?
10:40
<warren>
It is like Ubuntu, but amoral. Not immoral. Just business.
10:40
<Nubae>
ogra: lol, xo teams were all flustered abotu that too
10:41
<ogra>
warren, well i heard they also do the windows development on ubuntu ...
10:41
<Nubae>
shit google does the same...
10:41
<ogra>
but if you develop on a linux anyway, why the heck dont you build a linux version along ? ...
10:41
<laga>
support?
10:42
<warren>
ogra: same reason Adobe hates doing linux development, a lot less standardization
10:42
<ogra>
warren, well, google is a but different ...
10:43
<Nubae>
it is sometimes, and sometimes not...
10:43
<laga>
yeah.. read the chrome EULA
10:43
<ogra>
adobe lives mostly from their windows software ... google does web stuff
10:43
<Nubae>
there was no build for gears for example... + it was broken, only way was to install .xpi, which left users many versions behind
10:44
while windows et al all have latest builds
10:44
<warren>
Google updates apps for Linux like Google Earth
10:44
<ogra>
indeed
10:44
<warren>
although it seems they use winelib to do it...
10:44
<Nubae>
there ya go... its always a halfass attempt
10:44
<ogra>
and google runs most of their office desktops on linux
10:45
<Nubae>
like the support it... but only half
10:45
<ogra>
they have a close realtionship to linux stuff
10:45
<Nubae>
either u support something or u dont
10:45
<ogra>
and are aware that there wouldnt be a www like we have today without it
10:45
<Nubae>
they are the biggest funders of the olpc project
10:45
but they're apps don't work on the xos...
10:45
:-)
10:46
<ogra>
well, their google searchbar doesnt run on the classmate either
10:46
though thats a diskspace issue :P
10:49
<Nubae>
don't know if its because not enough people know linux or not enough developers know linux
10:50
<ogra>
well, google certainly knows linux :)
10:50
<Nubae>
heh, yeah...
10:50
<bjohnson>
I think I've stumbled upon the right google search string to find the answer to my problem
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12:09
<Lns>
Can anyone make sense of this ~/.xsession-errors line when a user tries to start Firefox 3 while others are in it? I'm getting mucho complaints that *some* people can get on FF3, but after they get on, others cannot - this is the only thing I can find. "firefox: Fatal IO error 2 (No such file or directory) on X server localhost:21.0."
12:11Gadi has joined #ltsp
12:12
<cyberorg>
Lns, try rm -rf ~/.mozilla
12:14
<Nubae>
kinda drastic
12:15
<Lns>
cyberorg: any reasoning behind that?
12:15
a lot of these users are brand new
12:15
<cyberorg>
Lns, some stale socket, bad cache, bad settings etc
12:16
<Lns>
ok.. i'll give that a whirl, thank you!
12:16
<cyberorg>
Nubae, not really drastic as that is re created, settings would be lost though
12:17
<Lns>
I've also got a TON of these in another users' errors file - this is a different user - (firefox:9463): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_widget_hide: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed
12:17
<Nubae>
right, still... if its shared... settings could be in /usr/lib/mozilla
12:18
or /usr/share/mozilla...
12:18
<cyberorg>
Nubae, they just go back to default, so no harm done
12:18
<Nubae>
might be better to reinstall firefox completelty
12:18
but thats even more drastic :-)
12:18
<Lns>
...that doesn't sound right =p
12:19
i've never had to re-install software on linux, ever
12:21
<Nubae>
really? lucky you
12:21
<Lns>
I don't see the point - unless there's file corruption
12:21
<Nubae>
with multi user sessions so much can happen
12:21
good luck pinning it down
12:21
<Lns>
there's no registry to muck-up ;) I've been using linux for 10+ years
12:22
actually 15+
12:22
multi-user shouldn't be a factor - everyone has their own config
12:22
I did have a global install of adblock running which might have screwed up every users' config
12:22* Lns ducks
12:23
<Nubae>
damn... so if you know the issue...
12:24
I've been working with firefox for a while, and doing some multi user development work (extensions and plugins)
12:24
it gets ugly
12:24
easy to mess up sessions
12:24
like what you describe above :-)
12:26* Nubae lols... reading through ubuntu ltsp intro guide Lns wrote...
12:26
<Nubae>
RTFM (Read The Fine Manual)
12:26
:-)
12:26
<Lns>
;) Nubae
12:26
Ancient Unix philosophy
12:26
<Nubae>
written for teachers for sure...
12:27
<Lns>
must be handed down to young grasshopper
12:27
<Nubae>
in new form of course
12:27
in my day the F stood for something quite different
12:27
<Lns>
it can go either way, depending on if you want the people to take offense or not ;)
12:28
<Nubae>
u can always pull a battle star galactica and say fracking
12:30
<cyberorg>
i like f for fubur
12:30
many manuals are beyond recognition
12:31
<Nubae>
what's the second u stand for?
12:31
<cyberorg>
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fubur
12:32
*fubar
12:32
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?page=4&term=fubar
12:32
<Nubae>
ah :-) heh
12:33
<cyberorg>
manuals i write are "fine" btw ;)
12:33
<Lns>
GOD i love shell scripts...even though I am a complete n00b at it still
12:34* Nubae goes out
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13:07
<_UsUrPeR_>
Anyone know why a 1220 client booting ubuntu 8.04.1 w/ LTSP 5 would not have a working mouse in USB or PS/2? Keyboard works in PS/2.
13:07
srry. 1220 = tk3750/1G
13:08
<ogra>
smells like a broken kenrel update or some such
13:08
if your modules dont match the kernel version such things happen
13:09
the keyboard is driven by the in kernel keyboard driver while a ps2 mouse and usb mouse use modules
13:09
<_UsUrPeR_>
would such a discrepancy occur, say, if the server were running 2.6.24-19-server while the client was running 2.6.24-19-generic ?
13:09
<ogra>
no
13:09
the server's kernel doesnt have any influnece on that
13:10
what counts is /opt/ltsp/$arch/boot vs /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/$arch
13:10
<_UsUrPeR_>
ok. Say I have rebuilt the client image as such prior to asking about this: ltsp-build-image --copy-sourceslist
13:13
<ogra>
ltsp-build-client or ltsp-update-image ?
13:13
<_UsUrPeR_>
ogra: pardon me, it was client
13:13
<ogra>
(the first creates a complete chroot, the latter only updates and existing .img file)
13:14
*an
13:14
ah, k
13:14
<_UsUrPeR_>
err it was ltsp-build-client
13:14
<ogra>
that would essentially replace the kernel
13:14
it runs ltsp-update-kernels and ltsp-update-image at some point to make sure they are up to date
13:15
did you see any errors durng boot of the client ?
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13:18
<cilkay>
I'm just amazed at how much time I burned through over the last week in trying to get LTSP working on various distros only to have had it working without realizing it last week when I first installed LTSP from the Ubuntu Alternates CD.
13:18
<_UsUrPeR_>
ogra: prior to this, we were having a boot problem, which was fixed by adding acpi=off . I'll need to check the boot logs to see if anything popped up that was unseen.
13:19
<cilkay>
While it's not quite plug-and-play, LTSP on Ubuntu is pretty close to it.
13:19* ogra is happy to haer cilkay saying that :)
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13:20
<ogra>
*hear even
13:20
<warren>
cilkay: tried fedora's live ltsp server?
13:20
<ogra>
_UsUrPeR_, dropping the splash keyword from your PXE config might help seeing if there are module errors
13:20
<warren>
cilkay: http://wtogami.livejournal.com/27610.html
13:21
<cilkay>
Yes, but it doesn't offer KDE3 as far as I could tell.
13:21
<warren>
nod
13:21
<cilkay>
And I think the last few parts where one has to do stuff at a shell in Ubuntu can be dealt with some Kommander UIs.
13:22
I had openSuse installed and it looked very promising as well but I'm like a fish out of water with Suse.
13:22
I'm comfortable with Mandriva, Red Hat/Fedora, Debian/Ubuntu.
13:23
Besides, Suse locked up hard several times on the machine I was using so that disqualified it. This has to work pretty much close to flawless to be accepted at the school in which I'm deploying.
13:24
Surprisingly, CentOS 5.2 had the same issues as Suse. Any attempt to get X running would lock up the machine hard and I'd have to resort to power cycling the machine.
13:24
Fedora worked though.
13:24
... which is even curiouser and curiouser
13:24
<_UsUrPeR_>
ogra: will do. Lemme check that, see if he's seeing any other errors
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13:32
<warren>
cilkay: what video card?
13:32
<cilkay>
Intel Q965 chipset
13:32
Intel cards are usually well-supported.
13:32
<warren>
cilkay: on the server side?
13:32The_Code has quit IRC
13:33
<cilkay>
K/Ubuntu has no trouble with it.
13:33
That is on the server side.
13:33
This is before I attempted booting a client.
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13:34
<warren>
confirmed, seems there are issues in the older intel drivers and 965
13:34
Ubuntu's 8.04 was more recent of a release by years
13:34
so it would have a newer version
13:34
<ogra>
years ?
13:35
<warren>
year?
13:35
I dunno
13:35
<ogra>
yeah, rather that :)
13:35
<cilkay>
openSuse 11 should not have had those issues.
13:35
<warren>
RHEL5 is based on FC6. We're almost at F10 now.
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14:01
<gbolte>
anything new today?
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14:06
<ltsppbot>
"Lns" pasted "Common ~/.xsession-errors while trying to logout (logout delays up to 3 minutes)" (8 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/57
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14:06
<Lns>
Tons of users in a new Ubuntu 8.04.1 lab get the errors pasted above
14:07
Also, they can't get into Firefox..these are new users with no existing ~/.mozilla dirs...teachers are piiiissed :(
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14:07
<Lns>
Why would thin clients try to auth to GDM ?
14:09
<_UsUrPeR_>
was there a change pertaining to ssh made lately? I just created a new image, and am having problems scp'ing log info off a client.
14:10
It's giving me the following error: permission denied, please try again. permission denied (publickey,password)
14:10
<gbolte>
hmm
14:11
Lns, lol @ This shouldn't happen!
14:12
<Lns>
gbolte: i appreciate your humorous laugh...but at this point i'm about to jump off a cliff
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14:13
<Lns>
this is happening at 4 different sites, school is in, and nobody can work
14:13Nubae has quit IRC
14:13
<Lns>
I wish I could figure out wtf is going on
14:13plamengr has quit IRC
14:13
<Gadi>
Lns: what kind of authentication do you use?
14:13
AD?
14:14
<Lns>
Gadi: no, normal passwd file
14:14
<gbolte>
Lns, I am sorry I know how it feels to have your head over the fire
14:14
<Gadi>
Lns: have you tried rebooting the server?
14:14
<gbolte>
its just great for once its not me
14:14
:P
14:15
<Lns>
heh
14:15
Gadi: you think that would help?
14:15
<Gadi>
sometimes you have crap in /tmp
14:15
<rjune>
!g
14:15
<ltspbot`>
rjune: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
14:15
<Gadi>
that gums things up
14:15
rather than deleting everything in /tmp
14:15
<Lns>
Gadi: well it's been rebooted 6 days ago due to kernel update
14:15
<Gadi>
it can be cleaner and faster to reboot
14:15
<Lns>
and it was happening before that too
14:16
<Gadi>
ah
14:16
and did these problems happen after the reboot?
14:16
or did they creep in over time?
14:16
<Lns>
before and after
14:16
this is a brand new install
14:16
new users
14:16
here's a message from a different school's tech: It took 15 minutes for 20 computers to logon to Firefox. The first one took 10 seconds, the next 20 seconds, the 6th one to try and come up had the "Already Open" error. After 20 minutes I went back into Apps/firefox with the remaining workstations and all but two went in. Workstations s8, s9 have the error message. I left them so you could see what is going on with them.
14:17baba_melone_ has quit IRC
14:17
<Gadi>
you aren't using one user account for multiple users, are you?
14:17
<Lns>
no
14:17
i'm not that dumb :p
14:17indradg has quit IRC
14:17
<Lns>
i understand your asking though
14:17
<Gadi>
maybe your users are hitting the firefox button many times in a row
14:17
<rjune>
Lns: what do you use for auth?
14:18
<Gadi>
that would account for "Already Open"
14:18
rjune: hi
14:18
<Lns>
Gadi: right - but it never comes up
14:18
<rjune>
!g
14:18
<ltspbot`>
rjune: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
14:18
<Lns>
not even the first time
14:18
<Gadi>
rjune: local passwd (great minds...)
14:18
<Lns>
rjune: /etc/passwd
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14:18
<rjune>
ok, so it's all self contained, not part of a network
14:18
<Lns>
right
14:18
<rjune>
can you get to a shell?
14:18
<Gadi>
Lns: try running firefox from terminal window
14:18
<rjune>
heh
14:18
<Gadi>
and see what errors it spits
14:19
:)
14:19
<rjune>
Gadi: boy, we've been doing this a while, eh?
14:19* Gadi was thinking the same
14:19
<rjune>
either that or I think like a jew.
14:19
<Lns>
Gadi: i can if i get onsite..
14:19
hold on, phone call..sorry
14:19
<Gadi>
there are worse things ;)
14:20
<rjune>
yeah, gentiles
14:20
<Gadi>
lol
14:20* Gadi avoids the rabble rjune is rousing
14:20
<rjune>
or is the proper term Goya ;-)
14:20
<Gadi>
and checks his passport
14:20
brb
14:21
<Lns>
ok back
14:21
I'll have a tech run FF from a terminal window and get me the output
14:22
<rjune>
fantastic
14:22baba_melone has quit IRC
14:25
<Lns>
ugh..is anyone else having these issues?
14:25* Lns hopes he isn't alone
14:26* Lns would like to see syslog from clients directed to the server for easy remote parsing :)
14:26
<rjune>
I think you can do that
14:27
<gbolte>
Lns, how many clients are there connected to the server?
14:27
<Lns>
gbolte: 35
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14:27
<gbolte>
nice
14:28
we have ~15 per server
14:28
due to a novell client bug
14:29
<Lns>
yikes
14:30
<gbolte>
http://www.fcdnet.org/japerry/2008/07/novell-client-20-after-few-days.html
14:31
thats what happens after about 18 users
14:32
<_UsUrPeR_>
I'm having problems ssh'ing from client to server w/newly created image.
14:32
<gbolte>
evidently the kernel module was never designed with LTSP in mind :P
14:34
<Lns>
Gadi: there's no terminal output at all, just the "firefox is already running" msg that pops up. lemme kill that user proc and see. There are a TON of FF procs lingering.
14:37
rjune: Gadi: Ok they're going to try to launch Firefox again after me killing all of the lingering FF procs, they'll get back to me in a few min
14:37
<rjune>
k
14:37
<Lns>
with what i've seen so far, it almost looks like FF3 isn't LTSP compatible at all
14:38
but i'm sure i wouldn't be the only one complaining if that were the case
14:38
<warren>
ogra: any response to my response to you?
14:38huey_ has quit IRC
14:39
<ogra>
response comes from responsibility eh ? :)
14:39
<Lns>
also, why is firefox proc showing from a ps list as "/usr/lib/firefox-3.0.1/firefox" ?
14:39
seems weird
14:42
<ogra>
warren, you mean the flash one ? i need to have a test setup for that which i currently have near me (especally not with two different releases)
14:42TelnetManta has joined #ltsp
14:42
<ogra>
*currently dont
14:42
sorry
14:42
(chatting in ten different channels, lots of work stuff atm)
14:43
<Lns>
jeez, firefox link gets symlinked through like 5 different links
14:44
/usr/bin/firefox -> firefox-3.0, /usr/bin/firefox-3.0 -> ../lib/firefox-3.0.1/firefox.sh
14:45
<cilkay>
I've found FF3 to be a huge memory hog.
14:46randra has quit IRC
14:46* ogra wonders if cilkay has tried any version before FF3
14:46
<ogra>
its a *massive* improvement
14:47
<cilkay>
Actually, perhaps RAM isn't the measure I'm complaining about. It's CPU utilization. I've found FF3 to go "off in the weeds" more frequently.
14:47
Especially if Flash is involved.
14:47
And yes, FF2 is a hog too.
14:48
How do you deal with the DHCP server setup if you want to have more than one LTSP server on the network?
14:48
<ogra>
have one dhcpd and multiple app servers
14:48
<cilkay>
How does a given client know which one it's supposed to boot from?
14:49
<ogra>
in ubuntu you use nbdrootd=serverip in your pxe config
14:49GodFather has quit IRC
14:49
<cilkay>
I know I could run dhcpd on all of them and have two NICs and segment the network but that makes the network configuration a bit more complex.
14:50
Aha. Thanks.
14:51
<ogra>
for other distros you might want nfsroot
14:51
<cilkay>
I'm running Ubuntu, as mentioned above.
14:52
I've been looking at the Ubuntu multimedia respin, I think it's called Medibuntu or something, for the computer lab. Setting aside issues of running multimedia apps across the network, is there a way that the teacher could listen to what a given student is playing on their computer?
14:53
We have a computer music course at the school and it would certainly make the teacher's life easier if he could do that.
14:53
I can provide a means of the teacher seeing, controlling, and spotlighting student desktops but I don't know if that works for audio too.
14:54
It's just a digital stream so it should be possible to tap into it.
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14:55
<ogra>
well, try mythbuntu, they have a ltsp diskless mode
14:56
makes a lot of sense to have fanless clients in the livingroom and a powerful streaming server in the basement
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14:56
<cilkay>
ok, thanks. This will take a bit of experimentation but it'll be awesome once it's working.
14:56
It sure does.
14:57
<ogra>
laga maintains it
14:58
<cilkay>
I'm off to see the wizard (to the school) to demo my shiny new server.
14:58
See you.
14:58
<ogra>
ciao ...
14:58* ogra is off too
14:58
<cilkay>
I think it'll be quite a thing for them to see how the clients boot faster off the network than they do off the local hard disk.
14:59
And shutdowns are almost instant.
14:59
bye
15:02
<_UsUrPeR_>
why is it that when I try to add a user to chroot that is expires the account automatically?
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15:14
<Lns>
I'm seeing that idle Firefox 3.01 sessions are taking ungodly amount of CPU time...at http://start.ubuntu.com/8.04, they are just sitting at the page, taking 66%, 80% CPU time per user proc
15:14
you know, i'm thinking some of these new page seeking features are the culprit
15:16Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
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15:19* vagrantc fires off a few emails requesting release-exceptions for ltsp, ltspfs and ldm
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15:41
<Lns>
Ok - does anyone have anything to say about urlclassifier3.sqlite in Firefox 3.0 with LTSP ? It seems outrageous that each FF user profile on a multi-user system such as LTSP should have individual files in upwards of 8MB...that's a lot of space when you're talking potentially hundreds of users.
15:42
Why can't there be a global pointer file to it? Or is there a way?
15:44
ahh...found this: http://ychittaranjan.wordpress.com/2008/06/27/urlclassifier3sqlite-woes-on-firefox-3/
15:51_UsUrPeR_ is now known as _UsUrpAwAy_
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16:45
<johnny>
Lns, it may be fixed in newer firefoxes
16:45
i'm not sure which version ubuntu is distributing
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16:58
<Lns>
johnny: I'm seeing 3.0.1+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.04.3
16:59
IMHO The Mozilla people really didn't think too much about non-standalone, non-singleuser installations..it seems so bloaty as far as the sqlite stuff goes, and the fact that you can't ref. those types of files beyond a single instance is just hell for LTSP installations.. I used to be able to have global bookmarks.html files, can't with the new places.sqlite :(
17:00
<warren>
you can turn it off though?
17:00
it isn't realy needed
17:00
<johnny>
you can't? i'm suprised.. merging sqlite files should be trivial?
17:00
altho they should offer the script too
17:01
aha.. so they are finally an official 3.0 build
17:01
<Lns>
warren: can you? I *just* started researching that
17:01
after finding out what's going on
17:02
<warren>
Lns: about:config
17:02
Lns: there are options in there
17:02
<johnny>
for which?
17:02
<Lns>
warren: how about for massive multi-user ?
17:02
<warren>
Lns: there is a way to make a global config file that forces the about:config optoins to be omething for all users
17:03
<Lns>
warren: I think that might be another issue..hold on lemme bring up the LP bug
17:03
<johnny>
warren, he's talking about sharing bookmarks
17:03
<warren>
http://togami.com/~warren/guides/mozlockdown/ this was how you do it in mozilla 4 years ago. firefox likely has something similar.
17:03
oh
17:03
he started talking about resource hog and sqlite
17:03
<Lns>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/19033
17:03
<warren>
which is one of the huge performance problems of firefox 3
17:03
<johnny>
sure.. about urlclassififier first..
17:04
then he said something about sharing bookmarks about 15 linues up
17:04
<Lns>
at least for ubuntu, that bug reflects my experience w/global config
17:04
<johnny>
i'm still providing my own custom config right now
17:04
<Lns>
johnny: that's not as big of an issue, it just sucks not being able to do that when bookmarks.html has been used for a billion years
17:04
<johnny>
in /etc/firefox or whatever it is
17:04
well bookmarks.html was hard to parse
17:04
really bad html
17:04
<Lns>
still worked for bookmarks :)
17:04
<warren>
wow, it really doesn't do bookmarks.html anymore
17:04
?
17:05
<Lns>
warren: it does but you have to import/export manually from places.sqlite
17:05
<johnny>
it creates one called postplaces
17:05
iirc
17:05
but i don't know if it updates
17:05
<Lns>
There are config options to automatically export/import but it's a big hack
17:05
<johnny>
you're a big hack :)
17:05
<Lns>
and takes up a lot of CPU..when you're talking ~30-40 users logging on at once it's unusable
17:05
johnny: :p~
17:06
<johnny>
i couldn't help it :)
17:06
<Lns>
don't test me right now... I'm about to say "$*#@ it" and install windows terminal server :p
17:06* Lns ducks
17:06
<Lns>
"Play me off, Johnny!"
17:06
<johnny>
beep beep boop beep?
17:07* Lns laughs
17:08
<johnny>
hmm.. i enjoy playing with ltsp on gentoo. much funner than on ubuntu
17:08X0d_of_N0d has quit IRC
17:08
<johnny>
it's easier to tweak the packages for my liking
17:09
so. we still have to start cdpinger from the init scripts?
17:09
i thought it could be started by udev now
17:12Guaraldo has left #ltsp
17:13
<vagrantc>
johnny: shouldn't have to start from init ... although i put in a check to run from both.
17:14mccann has quit IRC
17:14
<johnny>
so.. how often do folks request to turn off local dev?
17:16
<vagrantc>
it's disabled at freegeek
17:16
<johnny>
it sounds like it should be controlled by stuff like that usb security framework
17:17
<vagrantc>
too little bandwidth, so if there's no way to save it, people don't download DVDs and such.
17:17X0d_of_N0d has joined #ltsp
17:20
<Lns>
Ahhhhh...this might be of much use to us LTSP folk using FF3... http://kb.mozillazine.org/Browser.safebrowsing.enabled
17:44
<johnny>
hmm.. my ltsp-client and ltsp-client-setup scripts.. are quite a bit varied than the defaults..
17:51The_Code has quit IRC
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18:07
<johnny>
hmm... c'mon guys HELP me :)
18:08
do you know if broadcom pxes have ever been known to not get the tftp prefix?
18:08
on another note.. what is CONFIGURE_FSTAB used for?
18:09
vs setting it manually
18:09
<warren>
i've never seen that before
18:10Egyptian[Home1 has quit IRC
18:11
<johnny>
if [ -z "$CONFIGURE_FSTAB" ] || boolean_is_true "$CONFIGURE_FSTAB" ; then
18:11
echo "/dev/root / rootfs defaults 0 0" > /etc/fstab
18:11
echo "tmpfs /tmp tmpfs defaults,nosuid,nodev 0 0" >> /etc/fstab
18:11
mount /tmp
18:11
fi
18:12Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp
18:13
<Gadi>
johnny: CONFIGURE_FSTAB was added as a param I think to help people making diskless fat clients
18:13
so that you can turn off LTSP's tendency to write an fstab
18:14
on the fly
18:14
in terms of PXE, it is not that the client needs to "get a prefix"
18:15
the client requests the file as in "filename"
18:15
in dhcpd.conf
18:15
<johnny>
yeah.. it gets that
18:15
<Gadi>
it is the tftpd server that knows to append the prefix
18:15
<johnny>
hmm.. one client gets it
18:15
<Gadi>
based on how it is launched
18:15
<johnny>
virtualbox vm gets it
18:15
but neither of my dell laptops do
18:15mccann has joined #ltsp
18:15
<Gadi>
are you sure?
18:16
I mean that it just does not get the peefix?
18:16
<johnny>
it says TFTP Prefix: /ltsp/x86 on vm
18:16
<Gadi>
*prefix
18:16
<johnny>
and then TFTP Prefix:
18:16
on the two dells
18:16
<Gadi>
where is that?
18:16
in a log?
18:16
<johnny>
on boot
18:16
right when it starts
18:16mccann has quit IRC
18:16
<Gadi>
how do you set the prefix?
18:17mccann has joined #ltsp
18:17
<Gadi>
the client should not get any "prefix"
18:17
I have never seen that
18:18
<johnny>
huh? i have 10 clients.. (not that many , i know)
18:18
but when they all start
18:18
they all show tftp prefix after getting the ip
18:18
<Gadi>
http://syslinux.zytor.com/archives/2005-October/006033.html
18:18
do you have next-server in dhcpd.conf?
18:19
<johnny>
i don't ue dhcpd
18:19
i use dnsmasq
18:19
i have the equivalent
18:20
dhcp-boot=net:pxe,/ltsp/x86/pxelinux.0,beep,192.168.2.4
18:20
the virtualbox vm finds everything fine
18:20
<Gadi>
what tftp server?
18:20
<johnny>
i tried both tftp-hpa, and atftp
18:20
same diff
18:21
<vagrantc>
johnny: the example in ltsp-trunk/server/doc/examples/dhcpd-dnsmasq worked for me.
18:22
<johnny>
mine is based on that
18:22
and that deployment works at red emma's
18:22
<vagrantc>
but you added stuff
18:22
<johnny>
except for 1 machine
18:22
using rom-o-matic floppy on that
18:23
vagrantc, i've tried a few different things
18:23
that's just the current iteration
18:23
same errors
18:23
i'm about to test with another desktop machine after i use some compressed air on it
18:52
<Lns>
FYI, you guys might want to look a bit more into gnome-watchdog package - it seems to be working great on my server, and I'm going to start testing at my 7 sites hopefully in the next couple of weeks. It seems to rid stale user processes pretty cleanly - I haven't had a problem with ~1 week of testing, using on a daily basis.
18:53
Might be good to integrate into core ltsp functionality on the different distros
18:53Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
18:53
<Lns>
once fully tested
19:11cpunches has joined #ltsp
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20:04
<warren>
Another approach is to use the /usr/lib/firefox-3.0/firefox.cfg file and lockPref("network.proxy.http","127.0.0.1");
20:04
lockPref("network.proxy.http_port",3120);
20:04
ah
20:04
this is how to do the config file
20:04
in modern firefox
20:44J45p3r___ has joined #ltsp
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21:09
<vagrantc>
sbalneav, ogra: i'm having trouble tracking down the proper build-dependencies for xatomwait
21:13
warren: you have some sort of build-dependencies? did you need to add anything when we added xrexecd/xatomwait?
21:14
i'm missing a build dependency for something installed on my laptop, because it seems to work fine there.
21:14
so that narrows it down to 866 packages ...
21:14mdc___ has left #ltsp
21:16
<vagrantc>
Makefile:218: .deps/xatomwait.Po: No such file or directory
21:16
make[2]: *** No rule to make target `.deps/xatomwait.Po'. Stop.
21:19johnny has left #ltsp
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21:23
<Ryan52>
vagrantc: configure makes it for me...
21:23* Ryan52 growls at auto*
21:24
<vagrantc>
automake1.7, maybe...
21:26
no, because in an act of desperation, i tried automake1.7
21:26
er, intltool, which depends on it
21:27
<Ryan52>
but did you rerun autogen.sh and configure before trying to make?
21:28
<vagrantc>
re-ran configure. autogen.sh isn't supposed to be run as part of the build process.
21:28
that's done during tarball creation.
21:28
it works fine when i build on my laptop, but not from cowbuilder.
21:29
so it's got to be a missing build-dep.
21:34
well, adding automake1.7 fixed it ... seemingly.
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22:22SupremeMan_25 has joined #ltsp
22:22
<SupremeMan_25>
hi all
22:22
i need to buy 20 thin clients which one are the best?
22:22
<MacIver>
heh, we've been buying gpcs and removing the drives
22:23
<SupremeMan_25>
i have space problems :/
22:23
<MacIver>
how big?
22:24
<SupremeMan_25>
now im using eboxes..
22:25
<MacIver>
how much $?
22:26
<SupremeMan_25>
cheapest possible but not as crappier as eboxes
22:26
*crappy
22:26
im using in a classroom
22:26
<MacIver>
http://www.everex.com/products/gpc/gpc.htm <-- these are not bad
22:26
<SupremeMan_25>
let's see
22:27
normal things, like OOo, frozen bubble, youtube
22:28
<MacIver>
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883118005R
22:29
although you probably don't need the cdrw and sata hd :-p
22:30gregbrady has joined #ltsp
22:30
<SupremeMan_25>
i think they are too big
22:30
ebox are like... an ipod of tall
22:30
<MacIver>
probably, the tower is quite large, but very hollow :-p
22:30
how much does the ebox cost?
22:31
<SupremeMan_25>
like $100
22:32
but arent enough since soundcard isnt supported by ltsp5, and they have a slow videocard, then video shows slowly
22:34
why ltsp4 is much faster to boot than ltsp5?
22:34
<vagrantc>
because it's not doing as much
22:35
<SupremeMan_25>
what are the most important differences that makes ltsp5 boots slower?
22:35
*which
22:36
<cilkay>
I just came back from the school where I installed an LTSP Server on Hardy. Clients booted quickly here but at the school, I noticed the first one was quick. The second took quite a bit longer. The third was ridiculously long and the fourth never made it.
22:36
<johnny>
huh? soundcard isn't supported by ltsp5? are you sure it has anything to do with ltsp5?
22:36
<cilkay>
Load average was nothing on the server.
22:36
<johnny>
the main difference between ltsp4 and 5 in the boot regard
22:37
<cilkay>
The clients weren't doing anything, just booting.
22:37
<johnny>
is that ltsp5 uses more of it's host distro styles
22:37
including init
22:37
not that i've ever seen ltsp4.. but it was it's own custom distro..
22:37
i assume it could be a bit more svelte
22:37
<SupremeMan_25>
johnny, yes, its an ebox1000, sound card is obsolete i think, i was searching for months without results
22:38
<cilkay>
The last time I installed LTSP was in 2000 or 2001. I don't know what version it was but on a P3-650 with 512M of RAM, it was plenty fast.
22:38
<johnny>
don't search by ltsp SupremeMan_25 .. only by linux
22:38
if linux supports it, ltsp can
22:38
<SupremeMan_25>
the kernel was the problem
22:40
even compiling some modules
22:40
<johnny>
it's the same as it's host distro
22:40
in ltsp5..
22:40
<SupremeMan_25>
besides, boot takes like 3 minutes in ltsp5 , in ltsp4 takes like 40secs
22:40
<johnny>
hmm.. i'm not seeing it take 3 min here
22:40
<cilkay>
Mine was taking longer for clients after the first.
22:40
<johnny>
you can trim stuff down if you know what you're doing tho
22:40
<cilkay>
Longer than 3 minutes.
22:40
<SupremeMan_25>
ebox1000 are 128mb ram, 233mhz or so
22:40
<johnny>
like cut down the default kernel
22:40
oh.. wow
22:40
thought they were newer
22:40
<SupremeMan_25>
are the size of an ipod
22:40
<vagrantc>
ebox2300 ? there's all sorts of problems with those ...
22:41
<johnny>
the ones symbio technologies sell, seem neat
22:41
<cilkay>
And these weren't lightweight machines. The server is a P4 2.8G with 2G of RAM. The clients were the same or better.
22:41
<johnny>
i personally want something big enough for an optical drive
22:41
<cilkay>
Asus EEE Top
22:41
<johnny>
that sounds like my server cilkay
22:41
i only have 4 clients here tho
22:41
but they all seem to start reasonably quickly
22:42
<cilkay>
I never made it to four.
22:42
<johnny>
i got 4 off a relatively default install
22:42
i haven't even tweaked the kernel.. since they are all different chipsets and have totally different devices
22:42gregbrady has quit IRC
22:42
<cilkay>
With that kind of horsepower, should be able to do much better.
22:42
<SupremeMan_25>
i have 20clients in an xeon quadcore 8gbram
22:42
<cilkay>
I'll try one of the Core2 Duo machines as a server and see if that makes a difference.
22:43
<SupremeMan_25>
now the problems are clients, of course
22:43
<johnny>
oh.. that p4 wasn't dual core?
22:43
dual core is worth it for this kinda setup
22:43
at least
22:43
<cilkay>
It probably has crappy I/O too. Probably an IDE drive, not SATA.
22:43
I know I/O makes a huge difference.
22:44
The P3-650 was an IBM workstation with a fast SCSI drive. It was pretty impressive in its day.
22:44
<johnny>
cilkay, even thought we have dual core.. we actually still use the server itself, as a desktop
22:44
it's our POS system
22:44
and folks use it to play music
22:44
<cilkay>
Sure, why not? It's not Windows.
22:44
<johnny>
so it gets more of a load than any normal ltsp system
22:45
err
22:45
different kind of load
22:45
for that spec range
22:46
i wish i could afford thin clients
22:46
real ones
22:46
then i'd bring in a different machine for the POS
22:46
need to make more space in that place.. it's too small
22:47
my tech budget is something like $130 a month, takes awhile to save up :)
22:47petre has joined #ltsp
22:47
<cilkay>
You'd blow 2.5 months of your budget on one EEE Top.
22:48
<SupremeMan_25>
how can i show flash fluidly in an client?
22:48
youtube
22:48
<cilkay>
Local apps? Experimental from what I understand though.
22:48
<SupremeMan_25>
humm
22:49
<johnny>
SupremeMan_25, yeah.. you really want to use local apps
22:49
<SupremeMan_25>
and full screen vid, that should be the solution too? or that is too much for network?
22:49
<johnny>
too much
22:49
unless you run it local
22:49
and you need something up to 512mb for good performance
22:49
<SupremeMan_25>
from localdrive
22:49
<johnny>
flash is a dog
22:49
no.. not local drive
22:49
if you don't have em
22:49
you can serve up the files of firefox + flash from the server, but execute them locally
22:49
so the video is compressed all the way to the client
22:50
<SupremeMan_25>
ok, and it will show fluidly fullscreen?
22:50
<johnny>
there was a major blocker in making this easy
22:50
it just got solved recently
22:50
uhmm.. i don't know from personal experience
22:50
i'll find out soon
22:50
when i test out my setup
22:50
i'm building ltsp for gentoo
22:51
and i plan on trying to use it for a media center/set top box thing
22:51
<SupremeMan_25>
i ve used in ubuntu, ltsp4 and 5, and now im with rhel, i ve tried both ltsp too
22:52
humm
22:52
<johnny>
you'd probably want to trim down the default kernels
22:52
and then tweak the bootup, if you wanted to really make the best usage out of what you have
22:52
ubuntu includes a --kiosk option for ltsp-build-client
22:52
<cilkay>
what does that do?
22:52
<johnny>
it does local apps that way, served up in the image
22:53
but only includes firefox and flash
22:53
<cilkay>
Oh my!
22:53
<SupremeMan_25>
humm
22:53
<johnny>
i've never used it
22:53
i would suggest using the real local apps
22:53
<SupremeMan_25>
can i have access to other apps?
22:53
<johnny>
so it won't bloat your image size
22:53
no.. everything runs local with that
22:53
the image size would be too huge
22:53
<SupremeMan_25>
humm..
22:53
<johnny>
boot times would be astonomical
22:54
<SupremeMan_25>
thats only in ltsp5 right?
22:54
<johnny>
uhmm.. i have no idea
22:54
i have never used ltsp4, and i never plan to
22:54
<cilkay>
I've been wondering why it wouldn't be feasible to just write that image to the local disk and still use LTSP to manage the whole thing?
22:54
<petre>
ltsp 4 has no support for local apps
22:54
<SupremeMan_25>
yes
22:54
with a little package
22:54
<johnny>
because it doesn't affect boot times that much
22:54
<SupremeMan_25>
ltsp4.2 has it
22:55
<johnny>
oh.. even with that junk
22:55
<cilkay>
It would be like booting from a live CD and then installing from the live CD.
22:55
<SupremeMan_25>
localapps and localdev
22:55
<johnny>
i think in kiosk mode
22:55
you can't use anything but local
22:55
<petre>
local devices, but what local apps run under 4.2?
22:55
<SupremeMan_25>
humm maybe im wrong...
22:56
i ll find out right now
22:56
<johnny>
cilkay, imo it's cheaper to invest in more hardware than spending all the time messing with the underlying software, unless you plan on becoming a guru
22:56
or pay somebody to do that messing
22:57
<vagrantc>
there was crude support for localapps in ltsp4, but you needed to set up the LTSP build environment ... there wasn't much in the way of existing support.
22:57
<johnny>
aha vagrantc !
22:57
<SupremeMan_25>
:o
22:57
<johnny>
so.. tonight i'm rearranging my office..
22:57
now i'm just wishing for more network cable :(
22:57
<vagrantc>
although i didn't get involved until ltsp5 came around either.
22:58
<SupremeMan_25>
vagrantc, how can i do to run local apps inl ltsp4.2.. loading into image too?
22:58
<vagrantc>
!localapps
22:58
<ltspbot`>
vagrantc: Error: "localapps" is not a valid command.
22:58
<vagrantc>
!localapp
22:58
<ltspbot`>
vagrantc: Error: "localapp" is not a valid command.
22:58
<vagrantc>
!localdev
22:58
<ltspbot`>
vagrantc: "localdev" is (#1) Information regarding using pluggable devices and cdroms with LTSP can be found at http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42-LocalDev, or (#2) for ubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnableLTSP5LocalDevices, or (#3) for debian-edu: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/HowTo/LocalDeviceLtspfs, or (#4) http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
22:58
<SupremeMan_25>
i have localdev in ltsp4.2
22:59* vagrantc wonders when incompatibilities in the X protocol will make ltsp 4.x a dead-end road.
22:59
<vagrantc>
did it even use X.org ?
22:59
<johnny>
vagrantc, do you know what that debug console option in lts.conf does?
23:00
<vagrantc>
johnny: which one?
23:00petre has quit IRC
23:00
<johnny>
gadi made it recently..
23:00
<vagrantc>
LDM_DEBUG_TERMINAL?
23:01
<johnny>
yes
23:01
<vagrantc>
it spawns an xterm when you log in
23:01
running locally
23:03
<SupremeMan_25>
keep ltsp4.2 alive pls
23:03
<johnny>
SupremeMan_25, it has no maintainer
23:03
<SupremeMan_25>
its much better for really slow and oldies machines :(
23:03
<johnny>
our distro has dropped it due to unresolved security concerns
23:04
<vagrantc>
ltsp4 hasn't recieved updates in years...
23:04
it's only a matter of time before something breaks that can't really be fixed
23:04
<SupremeMan_25>
and i assume that will not exist an ltsp5 lite :P
23:05
<vagrantc>
why do you assume that?
23:05
<SupremeMan_25>
:o
23:05
<johnny>
SupremeMan_25, ltsp is only as light as your distro can be
23:05
it isn't in itself very intensive
23:05
<vagrantc>
we've definitely tried to keep the specs as low as possible, but there are some limitations.
23:05
<johnny>
it's just a set of scripts
23:06
<SupremeMan_25>
johnny, i dont think so , since as i told you , i ve tried both ltsp4 and 5 in the same distro
23:06
<johnny>
ltsp4 is it's own distro
23:06
in the chroot
23:06
<SupremeMan_25>
humm
23:07
<johnny>
compare the versions of the components
23:07
does ltsp 4 even use a 2.6 kernel?
23:07
<SupremeMan_25>
so thats why ltsp4 gives me soundcard supports and ltsp5 not... hummm now im unterstanding
23:07
<vagrantc>
4.2 is 2.6 ...
23:07
<johnny>
aha .. that's nice
23:08
<SupremeMan_25>
2.6.8 i think
23:08
<vagrantc>
SupremeMan_25: if your distro doesn't support your soundcard, then it won't be supported by ltsp5 ... ltsp5 is built out of your distro, ltsp4 was it's *own* distro.
23:08
<SupremeMan_25>
since 2.6.18 or so it doesnt supported my clients' sound card
23:08
yes, vagrantc i just noted that
23:08
<johnny>
that is why ltsp4 will never recieve updates
23:09
the closest to ltsp4 is altlinux
23:09
it's sorta ltsp4 and ltsp5 hybrid
23:09
<SupremeMan_25>
and, what about if i get and old light distro (that uses 2.6.8kernel) and put ltsp5, it should boot fast in clients right?
23:10
:o altlinux humm...
23:10
<johnny>
well i wouldn't get old anything if possible
23:10
<vagrantc>
SupremeMan_25: you would need ltsp5 to have support for that distro.
23:10
<SupremeMan_25>
then, i have to assume that all 20eboxes are thrash now?
23:10
<johnny>
SupremeMan_25, you could try LDM_DIRECTX=Y
23:10
btw
23:11
you should read the lts-parameters.txt file
23:11
<vagrantc>
there's pages suggesting what to do with the eboxes
23:11
<SupremeMan_25>
yes, i already did it, the problem is the kernel
23:11
<vagrantc>
search for ltsp and ebox
23:11
<SupremeMan_25>
and boot time
23:12
kernel doesnt support sound anymore, 7019 or so
23:13
sis7019 i think
23:18
?
23:19
ebox II are my clients
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23:48
<SupremeMan_25>
from one moment to another everybody stops talk
23:52
see you, thanks
23:52
bye
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