IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 22 February 2009   (all times are UTC)

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00:46
<alkisg>
Nubae: gooooood morning! :) The logs are down again... :(
00:46
<Nubae>
agh... lemme go check wasss up with da bot
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00:49
<Nubae>
well lost 2 days...
00:51
<Ryan52>
Nubae: wanna move it to me vps yet? :)
00:51
my*
00:52
<Nubae>
I dont mind... what OS?
00:52
<Ryan52>
Debian Lenny
00:52
<Nubae>
my cronjobs dont work or are deleted by sysadmins or something at godaddy
00:53
<Ryan52>
/msg me your public ssh key and I'll give you an account and let you go from there..
00:55
<Nubae>
hmm, that reminds me I have to create new keys since a reinstall
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11:03
<berriop>
heyyy, anyone have ever tried the mustation thing or the ncomputing one????
11:04
are they working?
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11:57
<James_Waldron>
Hi
11:58
LTSP Server is set up on Fedora 10. How to I get a client to attach?
11:59
Using an ASUS Ecc PC on Linux. Wireless connection to local hub.
11:59
Make Ecc Ecc please
11:59
How about Ecc to Eee (dumb fat fingers)
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12:15
<FreakGuard>
hm... something non-technical: someone got that wallpaper shown on the laptop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BYZ2UDzjDE
12:20James_Waldron is now known as jwaldo
12:22
<johnny>
jwaldo, it should just work ..
12:22
as long as you setup network boot in the bios
12:23
<laga>
johnny: wireless? not gonna work out of the box
12:23
<johnny>
oh.. missed the wireless
12:23
jwaldo, yeah.. wireless requires manual intervention
12:23
and will probably be too slow
12:23
for any decent usage
12:25
<jwaldo>
jonny - Don't think the Eee has a network boot option. Can I copy something to it and launch from the client. Perhaps I am way off, but isn't this just a client application running on the client that handles screen/keyboard/mouse/sound IO?
12:25
<johnny>
yes it does
12:25
other people have used it
12:25
but you must connect to the wired interface
12:25
<jwaldo>
I can't find anything on what aps/utils to put on the client.
12:25
<johnny>
i don't know the details.. but i saw it work in person
12:25
no need
12:25
for wired
12:26
wireless.. i don't know .. there is a post somewhere about it
12:26
that will require such things..
12:26
but.. i wouldn't recommend it
12:26
at least not until everybody has better tech than G....
12:26
<jwaldo>
Ok. If I go wired - I still need something on the client. Right?
12:27
<johnny>
no
12:28
<jwaldo>
?? Something has to be running to pass the data.
12:28
<johnny>
sure.. the bios has it built in
12:29
most modern boards with onboard nic have network boot
12:29
<jwaldo>
If I don't have a network boot option (I have a chubby client)
12:30
Should I just skip LTSP, connect ssh and launch an Xterm session on the host?
12:31
<johnny>
no
12:31
you won't get sound, nor local devices ,
12:31
<jwaldo>
so it sounds like without a network boot option, I'm toast.
12:31
<johnny>
you can always use gpxe on a floppy or cd
12:31
eeepc has networkboot.
12:31
as i keep saying
12:32
most other nics have other ways of network booting.. via gpxe
12:32
on a flopy/cd/harddisk install
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12:33
<jwaldo>
OK, I think I'm getting it. (bulb is not too bright yet). Let me see what I can do. Thanks ! !
12:34
<johnny>
jwaldo, iirc the first generation of eeepc had a bug for network booting.. there is a resolution
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12:34
<johnny>
i'm not recalling it tho
12:34
perhaps a bios upgrade fixes it
12:35
<jwaldo>
I'll try it wired first, or I'll try another machine.
12:36
Should be able to find something
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14:54
<alkisg>
I'm trying to install nvidia-glx-96 into the chroot, but I have the -server kernel, so DKMS complained about not being able to find the kernel sources. What's the command to lie to the chroot that I don't have the -server kernel, something like `setarch i386 chroot...` ?
14:55
And, how can I tell DKMS to try again to insert the nvidia module?
14:56
<laga>
alkisg: the man page for dkms probably tells you how to specify the kernel uname
14:56
<alkisg>
laga, I don't even know how to call dkms, it's called automatically
14:57
Ah, I guess I can call it like any other program, eh? :)
15:00
Hmm... It'll be easier if I just boot with the non -server kernel, rebooting... :)
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15:28
<alkisg>
Erm... now I get this: Error! Your kernel source for kernel 2.6.27-11-generic cannot be found at /lib/modules/2.6.27-11-generic/build or /lib/modules/2.6.27-11-generic/source
15:29
<laga>
you probably dont have the correct headers installed. or it's picking up the kernel from outside and you are running an older copy inside the chroot
15:31
<alkisg>
laga thanks, I had installed "linux-headers-2.6.27-11", it needed "linux-headers-2.6.27-11-generic"
15:34
OK, here comes the difficult part: how can I specify that only a few clients load the nvidia driver? (I think X prefers "nv" over "nvidia" if I don't specify anything). Would XSERVER=nvidia be enough?
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15:39
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: how hard do you think it would be to set up a keybinding for guest login?
15:39
<Ryan52>
not that hard.
15:39
<johnny>
alkisg, you might also need to load the module..
15:39* Ryan52 adds to todo list..
15:39
<Ryan52>
vagrantc: what keys?
15:40
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: like those little underlined letters that suggested to use Alt-FOO
15:40
<alkisg>
johnny: with MODULE_01=nvidia ?
15:40
<johnny>
probably
15:40
i've never used it
15:40
<alkisg>
Thanks, I'll try
15:41
<Ryan52>
vagrantc: can we even do that? /me thinking about l10n..
15:41
<alkisg>
Well, if I can't do it this way, I can always pass a custom xorg.conf...
15:41
<johnny>
i think that's the least of your problems..
15:41
what about the fact that nvidia overwrites core GL files?
15:41* Ryan52 sucks at knowing how to do stuff without breaking translation and/or making them weird.
15:41
<johnny>
if you're all nvidia, i'm sure it's no problem..
15:41
<alkisg>
I heard about that, so I'll probably need a different chroot for nvidia clients, eh?
15:42
<johnny>
no.. the server
15:42
or maybe not..
15:42
maybe i'm off base.. but it sure sounded complicated
15:43
<alkisg>
Well, I couldn't find any hints from anyone that actually tried it (wiki or anywhere), so I guess someone has to do the dirty job and actually test it :P :)
15:43
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: i think translations translate the hotkeys or whatever they're called ... i remembered seing special handling for some of the translations
15:43
in the .po files
15:44
<alkisg>
vagrantc, Ryan52, yes, e.g.. _Username gets translated to _Όνομα χρήστη
15:44
<vagrantc>
good old Alt-Ό
15:45
<Ryan52>
okie doke.
15:46
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: i'm guessing an _ for Guest ... although that brings up another issue...
15:46* Ryan52 hides
15:46
<Ryan52>
what?
15:47
<vagrantc>
"Login as Guest" suggests the username it'll autologin as will be guest ... but really, it would be nicer if it could say "Login as $LDM_USERNAME" or whatever logic it uses to figure out the username ...
15:47
though, that logic is not in the greeter
15:48
<Ryan52>
"Login as diskless143"? eww.
15:48
but ya.
15:48
<vagrantc>
yeah, something like that.
15:48
or "Guest Login ($whoever)"
15:48
<Ryan52>
that's better.
15:48
<vagrantc>
or something along those lines...
15:49
looks like there's an ugly backlog on debian's NEW queue ...
15:49
that'll really stall my plans for ldm and ltspfs uploads, introducing new packages
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15:50
<Ryan52>
yes, there is.
15:50
<vagrantc>
maybe i'll upload a new upstream version to unstable, and then a second debian revision to experimental until it gets through...
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15:51
<vagrantc>
that'll break ldminfod, unless i do something ugly like supporting alternatives for ldminfod...
15:55
Ryan52: do you understand the current proposal for machine-parseable debian/copyright files?
15:55
<Ryan52>
yes.
15:55
most of my packages use it.
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15:56
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: recommend an example to look at?
15:57
<Ryan52>
the one on the wiki? :)
15:57
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: this brings us back to not understanding it, then.
15:57
<Ryan52>
eww, nevermind, that's kinda wrong..
15:58
<vagrantc>
the one on the wiki seems totally incomprehensible ... i'd rather look at a real example. :)
15:58
<Ryan52>
want me to just make one for whichever package you're intending on doing it for? then you can use that for an example for the rest.
16:00
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: ldm would be a good start
16:01
<Ryan52>
okie doke.
16:01
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: although i haven't merged the experimental packaging branch into the regular branch yet
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16:02
<Ryan52>
uhhh...hmm.
16:02* Ryan52 can't tell which is sposed to be a copyright in this file..
16:02
<Ryan52>
in any of these.
16:02
<vagrantc>
?
16:03
<Ryan52>
./gtkgreet/langwin.c
16:03
the only copyright statement is:
16:03
* Copyright (2007) Oliver Grawert <ogra@ubuntu.com>, Canonical Ltd.
16:03
but there's a list of other contributors and years also..
16:03
<vagrantc>
all of them, really.
16:03
<Ryan52>
in a really weird format..
16:04
<vagrantc>
this is where copyright butts heads with collaborative development.
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16:10
<Ryan52>
ugh. okay, why don't we just put one copyright on the whole thing?
16:10
each file doesn't *have* to have it's own set of copyright statements, afaik.
16:11
<vagrantc>
i've had packages rejected before by trying to use a global copyright
16:11
<Ryan52>
oh.
16:12
I haven't. xD
16:12
oooo...we use two different licenses.
16:12
GPL version 2 in some files, and GPL version 2 (or at your option a later version) in other files.
16:13* Ryan52 wonders if that was intentional
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16:15
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: and in ltspfs, some files just plain ol GPL.
16:15
Ryan52: i think the vast majority of licensing differences are due to people not wanting to bother with copyright at all.
16:16* Ryan52 nods
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16:16
<vagrantc>
i was fairly happy with the two-liner copyright notice, but then ogra started adding the more elaborate stuff, and i just followed suite.
16:16
suit.
16:17
just so there's some consistancy
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16:21
<Ryan52>
who's Francis Giraldeau?
16:22
<knipwim>
fgiraldeau ?
16:22
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: think francis works with stgraber
16:23
<stgraber>
yeah, he works with me
16:29
<Ryan52>
0.o
16:29
licensecheck doesn't look at .h files..
16:30
and none of them have copyrights..
16:30
except for the greeter.
16:30
vagrantc: ?
16:37
vagrantc: should we add copyright statements and licenses to the header files too? can you do that?
16:37
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: it's a mess.
16:37
<Ryan52>
no, having different copyright statements and different licenses in every file is a mess. :D
16:37
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: i honestly don't know what's passable, what's preferrecd, and what's unacceptable.
16:38
what i do know is it's always better to be explicit than not, as anything that's not clearly marked will have a totally non-permissive copyright, if it ever came to that.
16:39
<Ryan52>
ya.
16:39
so.
16:39
will you add the stuff to the .h files?
16:39
<vagrantc>
but how to make it anything less than a total administrative headache is beyond me.
16:40
and it's debateable weather a one-liner is really copyrightable...
16:41
though there was only one one-liner that i recall
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16:55
<Ryan52>
src/ldminfo.c is wrong.
16:55
I know that I've contributed to that.
16:55
and I am not listed.
16:56
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: so fix it :)
16:57
<Ryan52>
ugh. ok.
16:57
<vagrantc>
i probably missed it because it had some semblance of a valid looking copyright/license header
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17:01
<Ryan52>
LTSP.org is a valid copyright holder?!?!
17:03* vagrantc wonders why Ryan52 is surprised at each individual mess :)
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17:07* Ryan52 pushes
17:07
<Ryan52>
okay, pushed.
17:07
<vagrantc>
to ldm-trunk ?
17:08
<Ryan52>
to wherever my debian checkout was from..
17:08
bzr+ssh://bzr.debian.org/bzr/pkg-ltsp/ldm/ldm-experimental-packaging/
17:09
that copyright file is rediculous.
17:09
I have never written one that long.
17:10
oh, and I didn't get the debian/* copyright right, cause it goes back farther than that, right?
17:10
<vagrantc>
debian/* goes back to 2005
17:10
<Ryan52>
ya, I only based it off of the changelog, which only goes back to 2007.
17:11
<vagrantc>
ah, ldm was split out from ltsp in 2007
17:11
they used to be a single source package
17:12
<Ryan52>
oh.
17:12
<vagrantc>
took me two years to get my way on that one :)
17:12
<Ryan52>
so ya, you should probably fix debian/*'s copyright and add all of the header files.
17:12* Ryan52 left out even the one with a copyright by accident.
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17:16
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: so, the main issue is that authors and years for different files need to be defined separately...
17:17
<Ryan52>
main issue with what? the copyright format? no. you can say "*" and "blah/*" and "file1, file2, file3". but none of our files have the exact same copyright statements..
17:18
<vagrantc>
right, that';s what i mean
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17:33* vagrantc uploads ltsp 5.1.62-1 to debian unstable ...
17:33
<vagrantc>
let the next couple years begin :)
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17:34
<Ryan52>
:)
17:36
<vagrantc>
this also breaks ldminfod until we can get ldm-server accepted through new...
17:37
<johnny>
vagrantc, kick their butts into action
17:48
<vagrantc>
johnny: well, i haven't actually getting ldm-server *into* new yet, so it's all still pretty much in my court :)
17:48
<Ryan52>
what's ldm-server?
17:48
<vagrantc>
i've mostly been dreading it as it will likely involve a little more scrutiny of the licensing ... and i knew it was a bit of a mess.
17:48
<Ryan52>
new binary package or new source package?
17:49
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: new binary ... shipping ldminfod and dependencies relevent for an ldm server
17:49
maybe other scripts if they come up
17:49
<Ryan52>
ah.
17:49
<vagrantc>
don't think it warrents a separate source package
17:51
also might split ltspfsd into ltspfsd and ltspfsd-core, and finally kill off http://bugs.debian.org/454478
17:51
as now the udev rules actually do spawn cdpinger...
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18:32
<mistik1>
what are you guys using for remote audio these days?
18:32
<vagrantc>
pulseaudio
18:32
with hooks to alsa
18:33
<mistik1>
cool
18:33
This not ltsp specific but I have a machine here with lots more power than mylaptop but has no sound card
18:34
I may just go source diving and copy the new ltsp method to hook that box up
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21:00
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: i just updated ltspfs-debian-package/rules to use debhelper v7, although i suspect there's even more conversion possible.
21:01
<Ryan52>
much better.
21:01
which branch?
21:02
<vagrantc>
http://bzr.debian.org/bzr/pkg-ltsp/ltspfs/ltspfs-debian-packaging
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21:02
<Ryan52>
$ bzr pull http://bzr.debian.org/bzr/pkg-ltsp/ltspfs/ltspfs-debian-packaging/
21:02
http://bzr.debian.org/bzr/pkg-ltsp/ltspfs/ltspfs-debian-packaging is permanently redirected to http://bzr.debian.org/bzr/pkg-ltsp/ltspfs/ltspfs-debian-packaging/
21:02
bzr: ERROR: Transport error: Server refuses to fullfil the request
21:02
*sigh*
21:03
<vagrantc>
hrm.
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21:03* Ryan52 tries with bzr+ssh
21:03
<vagrantc>
i use sftp ...
21:03
<Ryan52>
o
21:03
<vagrantc>
sftp://vagrant-guest@alioth.debian.org/bzr/pkg-ltsp/ltspfs/ltspfs-debian-packaging/
21:03
<Ryan52>
DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS is handled by something else.
21:04
I think dpkg-buildpackage
21:04
or something.
21:04
<johnny>
so.. debian hosts bzr now?
21:04
<vagrantc>
johnny: for years
21:04* Ryan52 removes those lines and will commit
21:04
<johnny>
never noticed it
21:04
<vagrantc>
though it's nothing fancy
21:04
<johnny>
then again.. i haven't used debian in.. whoa..
21:04
like 5 years
21:04
<Ryan52>
Suspicious line 58. Save anyway? (y or n)
21:04
<johnny>
it was on a server i touched.. but nothing i've personally used
21:04
<Ryan52>
emacs lost its mind.
21:05
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: emacs is now evaluating your code for you? :)
21:05
<Ryan52>
I guess :)
21:06
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: what's all that DEB_*_GNU_TYPE code about?
21:07
<Ryan52>
used in the config.status target which doesn't get used...:D
21:07
<vagrantc>
it definitely runs configure at some point ...
21:07
<Ryan52>
yep, but not from there.
21:08
debhelper does it.
21:08
<vagrantc>
dh_auto_configure ...
21:08
<Ryan52>
ya, tho I'm not sure which sequence that's a part of.
21:08
<vagrantc>
build
21:08
<Ryan52>
ah, build.
21:08* vagrantc checks that the packages still work
21:09
<Ryan52>
wait, I've got more to mess with :)
21:09
<vagrantc>
no need to wait ... :)
21:09
parallel processing...
21:10
<Ryan52>
woah, are you even using dh at all?
21:10
oh yes, halfway.
21:10
<vagrantc>
the diffstat took out a lot of lines...
21:11
overally, 70 less lines, with more to go, sounds like
21:13
still have problems with the local ltspfs mounts and CDs
21:13
but since that codepath is only activated when people intentionally install ltspfs in the chroot, i think i'll do an upload anyways...
21:18
well, the packages i built test fine so far ...
21:18
<Ryan52>
hmm.
21:18
$ ./autogen.sh
21:18
[...]
21:18
Makefile.am: required file `./ChangeLog' not found
21:18
$ echo $?
21:18
1
21:18
<vagrantc>
i think mkdst generates a ChangeLog
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21:19
<Ryan52>
oh, it does.
21:19
weird.
21:19
<vagrantc>
doesn't for ltsp, as i think the changelog was "too long", according to some people.
21:20
<Ryan52>
hm. I wonder if I broke stuff with my dh7izing.
21:20
can you pastebin the output of "debc"?
21:21
or should I push and let you look?
21:21
<vagrantc>
output of debc on one of the .debs ?
21:22
<Ryan52>
no, on the .changes
21:23
<ltsppbot>
"vagrantc" pasted "debc ~/pbuilder-results/ltspfs_0.5.9-1~20090222.5_i386.changes" (105 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/261
21:24
<vagrantc>
that was built against the tarball from ubuntu, which should be equivalent to ltspfs-trunk
21:27
<Ryan52>
what version?
21:27* Ryan52 doesn't see a tag..
21:27
<Ryan52>
maybe I pulled wrong.
21:27
<vagrantc>
revision 100 should be ltspfs-0.5.9
21:27
<Ryan52>
anyway, doesn't matter.
21:28* Ryan52 pushes
21:30
<Ryan52>
pushed.
21:33
why do you handle the ltspfsd.udev that way? why not just copy it before dh_installudev and then remove it after? or remove it in clean?
21:33
<vagrantc>
i tried it other ways with other scripts, but i'm open to something better.
21:37
<Ryan52>
http://slexy.org/view/s2AaQqUg7j
21:37
works fine for me.
21:37
it installs the file in the correct place, the generated postinst has everything it should, etc.
21:40
<vagrantc>
cool
21:42
maybe we could do that with all the init scripts in ltsp, too... that would make things a whole lot cleaner.
21:42
Ryan52: dh_install
21:42
cp: cannot stat `./usr/bin/ltspfs': No such file or directory
21:42
Ryan52: that's why i left dh_install the way i did...
21:45
<Ryan52>
huh?
21:45
works for me.
21:47* Ryan52 is still confused
21:47
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: did you use a clean build environment?
21:48
<Ryan52>
oh, I see.
21:48
./autogen.sh
21:48
and then it works.
21:51
did the old rules not require autogen.sh to be ran first?
21:52
<vagrantc>
well, we run ./autogen.sh from mkdst before creating the tarball ...
21:52* Ryan52 pushed that patch
21:52
<vagrantc>
though i suspect that's not really correct.
21:52
and i don't think running autogen.sh in debian/rules will be acceptible.
21:52
<Ryan52>
no, of course not, that's mkdst's job.
21:53
but with a tar made by mkdst the build works fine.
21:53
so there's no problem, right?
21:53
<vagrantc>
doesn't work for me
21:53
and i'm using the tarball generated and uploaded to ubuntu, which already should have autogen run
21:56
i'm building in cowbuilder ...
21:56
<Ryan52>
okay, lemme check
21:57
ugh. wtf? it works fine for me. lemme try with the ubuntu tar.
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22:03* Ryan52 tries in cowbuilder..
22:04
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: with revision 81 reverted, it works like a charm for me.
22:05
<Ryan52>
I did:
22:05
tar xzvf ltspfs_0.5.9.orig.tar.gz
22:05
cd ltspfs-0.5.9
22:06
mv ../ltspfs-trunk/debian ./
22:06
debuild -S -sa
22:06
cd ..
22:06
buildit `last-dsc`
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22:06
<Ryan52>
and it worked
22:06
(ignore my insane alias system..)
22:06
but it worked fine.
22:06
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: try it by exporting the debian dir from the branch
22:07
<Ryan52>
how?
22:07
<vagrantc>
~/src/ltsp/ltspfs/tmp/ltspfs-0.5.9$ bzr export debian ~/src/ltsp/ltspfs/ltspfs-debian-packaging/
22:07
substituting dirs as appropriate, of course...
22:08
<Ryan52>
it still works...
22:08
maybe.
22:08
<vagrantc>
you building the whole package?
22:09
or just the source
22:09
hmmm... it worked.
22:09
<Ryan52>
you got it to work?
22:09
<vagrantc>
maybe i had something unclean in my build...
22:10
<Ryan52>
ok.
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22:31
<vagrantc>
Ryan52: so, i'm going to build and test ltspfs unless you have any other important changes waiting...
22:32
build, test and hopefully upload, that is...
22:33
<Ryan52>
go for it, I'm done.
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23:00
<vagrantc>
ltspfs 0.5.9-1 uploaded to debian unstable...
23:01
<stgraber>
vagrantc: oh, what about your bug ?
23:02
<vagrantc>
stgraber: since it's only triggered by installing ltspfs in the chroot, i decided to ignore it
23:02
<stgraber>
k
23:02
<vagrantc>
stgraber: but the local mounts still don't respond to cd insertion/removal events ... and sometimes it can even cause the remote mounts to hang.
23:02
at least for me
23:03
<stgraber>
ok, I'll try again with cd-rom locally, at least the remote part works fine for me
23:05
<vagrantc>
i think it's triggered by trying to access the local mount after the Cd has been removed ... everything stalls out until it finally gives up and removes the local Cd mount... and never adds it back in.
23:06
it also doesn't add it in the local mount if the cd wasn't present at ldm startup ... or maybe login.
23:06
no idea why it doesn't work.
23:07* vagrantc is rearing to make some proper ltsp backports through backports.org
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