IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 15 February 2011   (all times are UTC)

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02:15
<gnunux>
hi
02:43
<hahlo>
lo
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04:08
<user__>
hi there! I was wondering if I can use load balancing when I set up the "next-server" option in dhcp3-server to the TFP servers, with DNS Round Robin. Is it possible?
04:09
*TFTP
04:12
Server-name should be a numeric IP address or a domain
04:12
name.
04:13
ahh found it. great
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07:06
<mgariepy>
good morning everyone
07:12
<elias_a>
mgariepy: Hyvää iltapäivää! Tuntuuko hyvältä olla ylösalaisin? ;-)
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07:17
<mgariepy>
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07:24
<garymc>
Hi Guys my Laptop keyboard is not working right when I login via ethernet on my sony vaio
07:25
to my ltsp server. when i goto keyboard layout etc i cant seem to fix it. Any ideas?
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07:28
<alkisg>
!lts.conf
07:28
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "lts.conf" :: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
07:28
<alkisg>
See XKBLAYOUT there
07:30
<garymc>
thanks
07:33
<mgariepy>
anybody here knows how to use the mkdst tool ?
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07:39
<Naranek>
I'd like to test setting swappiness my ltsp client before making changes to the configuration. So I though I'd just get myself root privileges on the client and change the swappiness with sysctl. However sudo doesn't seem to work even after I added myself to sudo group at the chroot environment.
07:40
Am i doing something wrong, or do you have ideas how to solve this?
07:40
I'm using ubuntu, so I'd rather use sudo than set the root password
07:41
<muppis>
Naranek, add SCREEN_02=shell to lts.conf so you get root console in client.
07:43
<Naranek>
thanks. gotta check that out
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07:46
<Naranek>
um.. I'd rather do it some way that doesn't give everybody root access who figures out the ctrl+alt+F2
07:48
<mgariepy>
Naranek, you can set it only for one thin client.
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07:50
<Naranek>
oh. great! Thanks :)
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08:24
<markit>
mgariepy: root access without password?
08:28
<mgariepy>
markit, huh?
08:28
ls
08:28
oops
08:29
<alkisg>
!SCREEN_02
08:29
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "SCREEN_02" :: to get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using%20a%20shell%20SCREEN
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08:38
<alkisg>
Naranek: what do you want to test about swappiness?
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08:55
<Naranek>
alkisg: just that it doesn't break anything
08:55
<alkisg>
Hmm and are you sure it's swappiness that needs the testing, and not swap itself?
08:56
<Naranek>
I'm just looking to improve responsiveness
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08:58
<Hyperbyte>
Hey hey hey!
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08:58
<Hyperbyte>
I've set TIMEZONE and TIMESERVER in lts.conf, installed ntpdate into the chroot... still the clients refuse to set the timezone specified or update the time. What am I missing? :-)
08:59
This is with LTSP 5.1.95-1 running on Fedora 13 x86_64.
08:59
<alkisg>
Fedora uses a bridge? Maybe you need NATting on the server?
08:59
<Hyperbyte>
It works if I run ntpdate manually
09:00
And I have a local ntpd from which it fetches the time
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10:44
<markit>
Naranek: not a good idea at all
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11:33
<alkisg>
Naranek: sure, you can update the image while users are logged in
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14:48
<shogunx_>
hey, vagrantc... hows it going?
14:48* vagrantc waves
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14:50
<zeitsofa>
hello :) is there a docu/howto available for setting up a client with 2 graphic-cards?
14:50
<shogunx_>
what do you think on the t5325?
14:51
or any other arm based client device, for that matter. i am trying to shave some watts.
14:53
getting ready to roll out some more solar powered ltsps in the south pacific.
14:53
a bunch of islands where the first contact most of the people will have with computers will be these networks.
14:56
<vagrantc>
shogunx_: i don't have any experience with them, really
14:56
shogunx_: ah yes, the solarone project?
14:56
i mostly work with recycled hardware, and have only recently been working with arm at all
14:56
<shogunx_>
solarnetone... thats me.
14:56
well, thats more working with arm than me:)
14:59
<vagrantc>
heh
14:59
presuming the hardware is supported by your distro of choice, it shouldn't be too hard to work with.
15:01
with ltsp in debian squeeze, you can install an armel LTSP environment on an i386 server (and presumably amd64) fairly easily
15:01
(using qemu-user-static)
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15:20
<shogunx_>
that efika client listed here looks pretty cool, but the hdmi limits what i can do on low power displays:
15:20
http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/LTSPArm
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15:21
<vagrantc>
yeah, that's the one i have
15:21
<shogunx_>
your opinion?
15:22
that is your standard model pxe to be hit with an arm debian payload, correct?
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15:23
<vagrantc>
the efikamx doesn't netboot, and the HDMI is a limiting factor
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15:25
<shogunx_>
boots and then connects via ldm?
15:25
<vagrantc>
i've done it once ... it works
15:25
requires kernel + initrd on the flash or SD card though
15:26
shogunx_: the ethernet is implemented on a usb bus, too ..
15:26
<shogunx_>
ahh.
15:26
<vagrantc>
my overall rating is they're better suited to disked machines, given all that
15:26
<shogunx_>
comprendo.
15:27
<vagrantc>
and there's not yet a kernel in debian that supports them
15:27
<sidartha>
is there anyone around who might be familiar with problems with a limit to how many simultaneous users can access a acls shared folder?
15:28
<shogunx_>
i suppose i could do some similar hackery on the hp t5325
15:29
<sidartha>
I have tuxpaint set up as a local app and its set to save to a folder shared with acls. However I can only open tuxpaint with a couple of machines at a time.
15:29
<shogunx_>
might not be worth it unless i can save 2-3W per client over the geodes we are using now.
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15:31
<shogunx_>
thanx, vagrantc. i appreciate it.
15:31
<vagrantc>
shogunx_: how many watts do the geodes use?
15:32
<shogunx_>
only maybe 5-6 running off dc... without the wall wart.
15:32
<vagrantc>
ah yes, you do some hardware hackery
15:32
<shogunx_>
yep
15:33
<vagrantc>
yeah, i'd be surprised if you'd be able to cut that in half ...
15:33
numbers i'd heard with wall-worts and stuff were more like 12-15watts vs. 6-8 watts
15:34
<shogunx_>
well, i got a nokia n900, which runs a debian based distro called maemo. its got an arm in there clocked at 600mhz, and its really efficient.
15:35
oh, those transformers eat up the power... you lose 30-40% that way, in heat.
15:36
since the geode client has a regulated power supply that can handle 7-24V, i can just run that right off my solar batteries, which never reach higher than 14.6 or so.
15:36
no need for an inverter, and no need for the wall wart.
15:37
<vagrantc>
nice
15:37
<shogunx_>
i was just thinking that a phone like this n900 with the right interfaces would make a great thin client.
15:37
<vagrantc>
yeah
15:38
shogunx_: i think there are some sheevaplug/guruplugs that include video output
15:38
<shogunx_>
honestly, doing the power system that way is the only way the project was economically viable... i had to bring the solar cost down, so i made the load as efficient as i could by eliminating the waste.
15:38
heyyyy... now that is a thought!
15:39
<vagrantc>
the sheevaplug was the first arm based hardware i got running ltsp, but only with a serial console at the time
15:39
but i think they take absurdly little power
15:40
<shogunx_>
that is totally the goal.
15:40
<vagrantc>
someone dumped off a bunch of the e1000 (e2100?) thin clients from disklessworkstations.com at freegeek the other day... i gave them a test whirl to see if by freak chance newer operating systems somehow worked better, but no, they still took 5-10 minutes to boot LTSP :(
15:42
<shogunx_>
fall back on xdmcp maybe?
15:42* vagrantc will just recycle them
15:43
<shogunx_>
sooner or later i am going to want these boards with refinements such that i am going to have to make them myself.
15:43
<evil_root>
vagrantc when we switched to ltsp 5 all of our e1000s were no longer realistically usable
15:43
at my work
15:43
we use and love the 1620s now
15:43
<vagrantc>
evil_root: yeah. there's something weird about those machines that just didn't work with newer OSes
15:44
<shogunx_>
some of my older clients with the 500mhz geode take a bit to boot, but the 800mhz model does fine.
15:44
on the former, removing the encryption seemed to do the trick.
15:47
hmm. thinking about making this board wants me to get an open source hardware thin client going based on arm
15:47
<vagrantc>
i'd be interested
15:48
<shogunx_>
we could hack together a nice little 2-3W client.
15:48
fun fun
15:50
hmm... bucket list. arm processor. dvi/vga video, usb x3-4, regulated dc-dc converter
15:50
10/100 enough, or should we consider gigabit?
15:51
<vagrantc>
i've *heard* gigabit takes considerably more power, but i don't really know
15:51
<shogunx_>
the chipset datasheets should tell us.
15:55
pxe in any case.
15:55
how much memory is enough memory?
15:56
<alkisg>
Heh, with X-pixmaps-hungry firefox and openoffice
15:56
?
15:56
I've seen thin clients using 512 RA
15:56
m
15:56
...and I need a bigger keyboard
15:57
Without localapps
15:57
<vagrantc>
tasty pixmaps
16:00
<shogunx_>
wow... that guruplud almost does what i need
16:00
were it not for the hdmi...
16:00
<vagrantc>
doh
16:01
i guess there are hdmi-to-DVI adapters
16:01
<shogunx_>
except, of course... the "plug" part.
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16:03
<shogunx_>
i would have to crack them open and add a dc jack, bypassing the trafo or whatever.
16:03
not that i really mind, but for 50 of them, it could get tedious.
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16:28
<shogunx_>
hmm. poe would even be yummier
16:29
<vagrantc>
if given the chance to dream... :)
16:30
<shogunx_>
well... if the other 4 rj45 pins are not used in the guruplug...
16:30
that is just 2 jumper wires and disconnenting the bridge rectifier on the trafo.
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16:30
<shogunx_>
so something like this to tack the hdmi situation:
16:31
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=hdmi+to+dvi+converter&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=ivns&resnum=4&biw=1105&bih=730&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=8959628692992665594&ei=OShaTYnLJ4mgtwfqr634Cw&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CIABEPMCMAE#
16:31
?
16:31
<m4xx>
i've just setup an ltsp server on ubuntu 10.04, my thinclient boots to the greeter just fine but auth's aren't working. nothing in the auth.log
16:32
<vagrantc>
shogunx_: yeah, that's what i was thinking of
16:33
the adapter works either direction? that's nice.
16:33
<shogunx_>
that was my reaction as well
16:33
<m4xx>
any ideas?
16:34
<shogunx_>
is /home mounted on the server?
16:34
<m4xx>
yes
16:35
i can login locally just fine
16:35
<shogunx_>
ssh keys all set up properly and such?
16:36
<m4xx>
i can re-generate them
16:36
but would that cause it not to even show failed attempts in logs?
16:37
<shogunx_>
i am just going through conditions i have met in the past that mostly fit your symptoms
16:37
<m4xx>
ah =]
16:37
rebuilding image now
16:38
<shogunx_>
if i try to add another process like thinking through that all the way at this point, my brain will short out.
16:42
<m4xx>
brilliant
16:42
thank you very much shogunx_ =]
16:42
<shogunx_>
cheers:)
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17:06
<nyarl-tep>
aloha
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17:52
<Nubae>
bugger... lost my last message... here goes again... right now we have fairly sporadic net connectivity some places and would like to redirect certain addresses. especially something like activity.mydomain.com to something internal.. since its unsure wehn inet is available..... any ideas?
17:54
I've tried using /etc/hosts to overide settings, but its not really concrete enough in the action it might take.... really just need a way to grab _any_ public net address and resirect locally, without people noticing anytthign
17:54
any ideas? would be sooooo appreciative
17:56
<shogunx_>
you need a local cache
17:56
squid, perhaps?
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18:08
<shogunx_>
hey vagrantc, check this out:
18:08
http://www.pactroninc.com/OpenRDTasman.htm
18:14
<Nubae>
local cache how? I thought about proxy....
18:14
but in this case its like just one particular domain
18:15
I thought about doing something with /etc/hosts, but it has to be done more centrally
18:15
there are too many computers to edit the /etc/hosts files
18:17
shogunx_ how about some simple iptables rule?
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18:18
<shogunx_>
that might work, on the edge router
18:19
<Nubae>
shogunx_ u're still working on projects where loctaions have little to no inet connectivity right?
18:19
h9ow do u get around it
18:21
I'm currently looking for a solution for Paraguay/Uruguay, where folks have intermittent inet access, so we need to redirect certain high bandwidth addresses to something local (usually repos, but http access based)
18:21
<shogunx_>
the access is not so spotty with vsat uplinks... just slow and costly. squid helps quite a bit there.
18:23
<Nubae>
yeah squid is great, but I need to be able to acually get the content itself and then have the laptops (xos) look for the content locally and not traverse the net
18:23
thats my problem
18:23
<shogunx_>
ohhh. xo's. ok.
18:23
<Nubae>
so squid helps at the second level
18:23
<shogunx_>
yep
18:23
<Nubae>
but first level, they need to get the stuff from a local source
18:24
<shogunx_>
you have a local dns server, right?
18:24
<Nubae>
i have a bunch of theoretical ideas :-/
18:24
no... but I can build one
18:24
we use the XS server (which sucks)
18:25
<shogunx_>
you could zone jack the domain in question with a local dns server, and publish whatever address you want.
18:25
<Nubae>
I'm in the midst of building our own server, but at the moment we have to use XS
18:25
<shogunx_>
as long as all your xo's use your dns server to resolve addresses, that should be the same as doing all the /etc/hosts files.
18:25
<abeehc>
i'd imagine you really need local dns
18:25
<Nubae>
right, I thought about that, but wanted a simpler solution, the guys in the field there are not really rocket scientists
18:25
<abeehc>
after that doesn't squid do everything else
18:26
<Nubae>
they dont even know what a dns server is
18:26
<abeehc>
ouch
18:26
<shogunx_>
yeah, you run into some of that.
18:26
<abeehc>
http://linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2001/08/02/offline_squid.html
18:26
<Nubae>
i wanted to get around using a dns server
18:26
<shogunx_>
it goes with the territory.
18:26
<abeehc>
super old content i just posted there
18:27
<shogunx_>
i will not even proposed a dtn tunnel then.
18:27
<Nubae>
cool... I'll take a look
18:27
hehehe
18:27
<abeehc>
if your connectivity is sketchy you aren't going to get around having local dns
18:27
<shogunx_>
thats pretty true
18:27
<Nubae>
explaining editting the /etc/hosts file was already hard
18:27
<shogunx_>
the zone jacking could be done remotely...
18:27
<abeehc>
and having local cahcing dns will imporved the experience for the users anyway
18:28
<shogunx_>
i agree there too.
18:28
<abeehc>
yeah if you have shell all of this is possible remotely
18:28
<Nubae>
I thought about writing a script that propogates the hosts files across laptops
18:28
I need something super KISS
18:28
<shogunx_>
this should be apt-get install bind9 and a dhcp server tweak
18:28
but iptables on that same server should do to.
18:28
<abeehc>
or you could look at an appliance i suppose
18:29
m0n0wall/dnsmasq
18:29
<Nubae>
right ok, so u guys think, go the DNS route
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18:29
<abeehc>
i'm not suggesting jacking zones is a great plan
18:29
never considered it
18:29
<shogunx_>
tho i agree... local dns will be a boon to your network in general, but iptables on that xs server will do the job
18:30
<Nubae>
right so... iptables rules or DNS, which do u think is best, long run?
18:30
<shogunx_>
well, i would not be without local cacheing dns server.
18:30
abeehc is totally right on that.
18:31
zone jacking is a quick and dirty hack if you have dns in place already
18:31
<Nubae>
dnsmasquerading then
18:31
with some iptables rules
18:32
<shogunx_>
i would just redirect requests to the ip addresses in question
18:32
redirect those to your local host that has the cache in it.
18:32
and set up the file tree the same way.
18:33
<Nubae>
hmmm... but add squid in that scenario too then or what?
18:33
<shogunx_>
if connectivity is spotty, or bandwidth is pricy, having a local cache of the elements of commonly browsed websites will be to your advantage as well.
18:34
go you don't have to pull down the google logo every time someone gos to google.
18:34
<Nubae>
yeah, its mid south america, so definite spottiness
18:34
;-)
18:34
<shogunx_>
long range wifi hop?
18:34
<Nubae>
thanks... think I have a good idea
18:35
depends on location... uruguay has a contract in place to give a laptop to every child in the country
18:35
<shogunx_>
got it
18:35
<Nubae>
thats about 2 million laptops
18:36
<shogunx_>
with a mesh tho, you only really need minimal backhaul infrastructure
18:36
<Nubae>
thats the idea... but having worked with mesh now for several years, I can tell you that the theory is far far better than practice :-/
18:37
<shogunx_>
here is how i originally thought that would work...
18:37
say you have two villages whose meshes cannot hear one another.
18:37
both have vsat connections.
18:38
ospf and real routing needs to happen for one village to talk to the next.
18:38
without paying double for the satellite time.
18:38
<Nubae>
sounds like an idealistic setup already ;-)
18:39
<shogunx_>
so there needs to be long range bridges in between.
18:39
ubnt.com makes the right kind of gear for that.
18:39
<Nubae>
hmmm will take a look
18:39
we have massive problems in Peru for connectivity
18:39
<shogunx_>
well, lately, it has not been villages for me, but islands.
18:40
15-20km apart.
18:40
<Nubae>
there is about 1% connectivity there
18:40
because of terrain/distance etc
18:40
<shogunx_>
mountain tops tho, no?
18:40
difficult to deploy transmitters on.
18:41
<Nubae>
yeah in theory its possible, but the big problem there is villages have too few habitants to make it worthwhile
18:41
know what I mean?
18:41
<shogunx_>
we need to go back to tesla, and figure out how he was planning on using the schumman resonance as a carrier wave and then this is cake.
18:41
i know exactly what you mean.
18:41
you know about 03b networks, right?
18:42
<Nubae>
yeah shit... we used 20% of teslas knowledge and still dont even understand that
18:42
<shogunx_>
i would say 20% is pushing it.
18:42
<Nubae>
:-)
18:42
03b networks?
18:42
<shogunx_>
yep
18:42* Nubae listens
18:43
<shogunx_>
other 3 billion
18:43
satellite constellation funded by google among others.
18:43
should be live now, or going live soon.
18:43
<Nubae>
ooh... yeha
18:43
now know what u mean
18:44
shogunx_ so where u working these days?
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18:44
<shogunx_>
daytona beach still
18:44* Nubae is involved with olpc stuff in SA
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18:45
<shogunx_>
getting ready to move the operation into a bigger building tho.
18:45
i have projects going in zimbabwe, serbia, and kiribati
18:45
and was in tatarstan last year.
18:45
<Nubae>
I tought u might be taking things offshore by now
18:46
I mean working from offshore locations
18:46
<shogunx_>
i put a transmitter in tatarstan for point to point coverage of a small town.
18:46
http://gnuveau.net/wisp/
18:46
<nutron>
looks like firefox-bin is causing a lot of io, I've turned off on-disk caching, any ideas what it would want to write at 500kbps?
18:47
<Nubae>
there are some big projects happening in solomon islands right now
18:47
<shogunx_>
Nubae, well, i have my family here, raising 2 kids so they can be around their grandparents.
18:47
i will be going back to kiribati this year
18:47
<Nubae>
ah yeah... family indeed comes first
18:48
<shogunx_>
http://gnuveau.net/kiribati/ <-- pictures from unspoiled south pacific.
18:48
<Nubae>
if u are interested though I can drop your name in SA, for helping connect remote regions internet wise
18:49
looking at pics now
18:49
<shogunx_>
oh, sure, i'm always up for some net building.
18:49
scott@solarnetone.org
18:49
<Nubae>
cool... u have a linkedin link or cv or something?
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18:49
<shogunx_>
hablo poquito, pero necessito practicar.
18:50
yeah, i'm on linkedin.
18:50
just search solarnetone.
18:50
<Nubae>
bien bien.. no es necesario hablar español, pero ayuda
18:50
<shogunx_>
comprende
18:50
:)
18:51
<Nubae>
but seriosuly... we are looking for infrastructure peeps... to make transmitting internet connectivity easy...
18:51
I'll introduce u to my boss David Farning,,, dont know if u know him
18:52
<shogunx_>
i can consult with you on specific problems, but as far as a heavy time commitment... i have a busy 2 years in front of me already.
18:52
<Nubae>
we work for the Paragauyan government right now... so there is a bit of leeway, as they are funding the project
18:53
no probs... think its more about how to make it as easy as possible to make our net connectivity happen in remote locations
18:53
so consulting is what it would be about
18:53
<shogunx_>
18 islands in the south pacific, a learning center in africa, and some power system related consulting i am already committed to.
18:54
i am right there with you on that.
18:54
<Nubae>
cool, got your email, expect a mail in the near future...
18:54
<shogunx_>
many thanks
18:55
<Nubae>
ttyl, thanks for the advice on redirecting urls
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19:09
<abeehc>
cool stuff
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19:16
<nutron>
vagrantc: anything I should prepare for in lenny --> squeeze upgrade?
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19:55
<nutron>
vagrantc: or are the backports the equivalent of the squeeze release?
19:55* nutron goes to check version numbers
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20:40
<nutron>
ltspfsd isn't installed on my server, and the client doesn't have it either. Is this required? (well apparently not, since my clients run just fine) Well I guess I'm asking if I'm missing much or if I'm out of spec by not using it? The debian description does not give me much to go on.
20:49
<shogunx_>
if you want usb sticks and things to work, you need it.
20:59
<vagrantc>
shogunx_: those OpenRDTasman sound pretty nice
21:01
nutron: the backports are pretty much equivalent, though other things like major changes to X.org might hit you
21:02
but the LTSP code is almost identical (i think LDM is one minor version behind)
21:02
nutron: ltspfsd should be installed on the thin-client if you want localdevice support
21:02
nutron: or possibly ltspfsd-core, and then you roll your own udev rules... though i wouldn't recommend that
21:06
shogunx_: looks like the openrd tasman takes a power brick, though :(
21:07
<shogunx_>
12VDC input:)
21:07
just pull the power brick out of the way.
21:08
<vagrantc>
ah, suppose that's perfect for you :)
21:08
<shogunx_>
yep
21:08
but maybe too much stuff on that board. haha.
21:08
<vagrantc>
it seems to have it all
21:09
<shogunx_>
it looks to be quite full featured... yes.
21:09
<vagrantc>
though i suspect it's supported by the default kernels in debian
21:09
<shogunx_>
i might pick one up and do some real power testing on it.
21:11
even at break even on the power, this has much more memory and a faster core than the geodes.
21:47
<nutron>
vagrantc: so when you say xorg differences, well, it's not ltsp related then is it? I guess clients, but it does work under squeeze right? :)
21:47
Sorry that was three thoughts in one. I meant, clients would be affected by xorg, overall it is a safe upgrade path right?
21:54
<vagrantc>
nutron: overall, yes. there are some video cards that don't handle the new X server.
21:54
nutron: the switch to KMS (kernel mode setting) doesn't work everywhere
21:55
nutron: good thing about thin clients is you're not installing on the hardware itself, so it's easy to switch back if you have problems :)
21:56
<nutron>
vagrantc: heh yeah, I guess I'll have to do up a plan. Can't afford the downtime and I never got around to setting up the secondary app server. Now's a good time I guess :P
21:57
Still dealing with the IO issue, has anyone been reporting anything like this before?
21:57
Seems it's truly the app server that's pumping 8MB or more /sec of disk writes.. all coming from icedove and iceweasel, which I find hard to believe.
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