IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 11 January 2011   (all times are UTC)

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02:00
<gnunux>
bonjour
02:01
sorry ...
02:01
hi
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02:13
<alkisg>
Καλημέρα from Greece too
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02:23
<hahlo>
alkisg: are you from greece?
02:23
<alkisg>
Yup
02:24
<hahlo>
ok we just wait here some comenius guests (students + teachers) from greece
02:52
seems that usb-creator doesn't work when I run it from fatclient, in the end always got some error file not found
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05:03
<arvin_>
Guys, just for shits and giggles, if you would give your best guess, how many LTSP clients would you be able to sustain on a minimal Ubuntu server (running stand alone LTSP with only essentials) and rdesktop + X as the only things running, on a generic 16GB RAM server?
05:04
<muppis>
arvin_, how about CPU?
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05:05
<arvin_>
Wait, let me check some HP rackmounts.
05:07
<muppis>
But if you calculate about 512 MB per user, then any of G6 series HP will be fine.
05:07
<arvin_>
Holy crap
05:07
512MB per user
05:07
That's way too much for a slim X + rdesktop.
05:07
I was counting max 128MB.
05:08
If even that.
05:08
<muppis>
Then do the math.. If you enough power on client to run that X + rdesktop.
05:08
<arvin_>
I read somewhere that a regular LTSP installation should consider 192MB as a reasonable load.
05:08
Well yeah I can do the math, but you guys have the experience.
05:08
That's what I'm after. :)
05:09
<muppis>
192 is safe good.
05:09
<arvin_>
You know what would be an insanely useful utility?
05:09
A tool that would show different resouce loads per user.
05:10
Though I suppose that would be slightly complex.
05:11
The thing is, as long as the client is only running rdesktop, the load should be very consistent.
05:11
So just by knowing one client load, should give me a very good idea of the rest.
05:12
<muppis>
I use Gnome system monitor. Give enough info.
05:15
<arvin_>
Yeah but the server doesn't have GNOME installed. :)
05:15
Though I see your point.
05:15
I suppose I have only one real way of finding out. Stresstest.
05:16
<muppis>
That's good also.
05:16
<arvin_>
The thing is, 32MB plus minus will make a big difference in the end.
05:17
<muppis>
You can start at 128, so you see quickly if that is too low.
05:18
<arvin_>
Yea
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06:36
<hahlo>
what I should put ARCH= if fatclient machine is x86_64?
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06:47
<muppis>
hahlo, is that something special or just regular 64bit PC?
06:49
<hahlo>
regular i5 machine
06:49
64bit pc
06:51
<muppis>
amd64
06:53
<hahlo>
ah I should put AMD64 instead of i386
06:53
with big letters?
06:53
<muppis>
Well, if you don't need use that same chroot in 32 bit machines.
06:53
Small is default.
06:53
<hahlo>
no I try to build for 64bit client
06:53
ok
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06:58
<gsouque>
hi
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07:02
<gsouque>
i have a ltsp server running ubuntu 10.04. and sometimes some thin-client refuse to boot. The thin-client have the ubuntu boot logo but gdm never start.
07:04
<alkisg>
gsouque: remove "quiet splash" from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default and see what error message it produces
07:04
(when it fails to boot)
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07:07
<gsouque>
ok
07:10
it's fail after Starting LTSP client
07:10
<alkisg>
Any error messages?
07:11
<gsouque>
no
07:11
<alkisg>
And sometimes it boots and sometimes it doesn't?
07:11
<gsouque>
sometime it's work sometime not...
07:11
mybe a X org issue?
07:12
<alkisg>
Wait 3 minutes to see if a message will come up about hanged processes
07:12
(while the client is still hanged)
07:12
I.e. don't reboot/poweroff the client
07:13
"sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't" usually means networking issues...
07:17
<gsouque>
hum
07:18
<alkisg>
Still no messages?
07:19
<gsouque>
i still waiting
07:19
i have an other issue :when booting the thin client the message "missing parameter in configuration file" appear just before the boot of the client
07:19
<muppis>
07:20
<elias_a>
muppis: 69€?
07:20
<muppis>
elias_a, sure.
07:20
<elias_a>
Dirt cheap.
07:20
<alkisg>
Oooh last year I bought 1 Tb with that money, good deal
07:21
gsouque: that's not an ltsp message, did you install anything extra in the chroot?
07:21
<muppis>
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07:21
<elias_a>
muppis: What brand?
07:22
<muppis>
elias_a, Samsung
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07:23
<elias_a>
Should be a quality product.
07:23
<mgariepy>
good morning everyone
07:23
<gsouque>
i now have some errors
07:24
<elias_a>
mgariepy: Good afternoon! :D
07:24
<gsouque>
rsyslogd blocked for more than 120 seconds
07:24
sshd blocked for more than 120 seconds
07:25
etc...
07:25
<alkisg>
gsouque: sshd?! Anyway, maybe it's yet another nbd-proxy problem, try this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/589034
07:26
<gsouque>
i have a ssh server running on the thin client
07:26
<mgariepy>
elias_a, i assure you it's morning ;P
07:26
<alkisg>
Good morning mgariepy
07:31
<muppis>
elias_a, already got Samsung's 2 X 1TB and 1 X 2TB
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07:46
<robehend1>
Mornin all
07:48
<elias_a>
mgariepy: You must be walking upside down if it is morning :)
07:49
<mgariepy>
elias_a, yeah almost, canada is upside down ;)
07:53
<robehend1>
what can you expect, when milk comes in bags
07:55
<gsouque>
alkisg:i have followed the solution from the launchpad bug report and it's seems to work !!! i have done 5 boots with no erros. Thanks you very much for your help!!
07:56
<robehend1>
gsouque: ooo the nbd proxy fix?
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07:59
<robehend1>
say, for Fat Clients, do i just do the standard ltsp-build-client --fat-client?
07:59
finally got a machine that i think might work for it
08:04
<_UsUrPeR_>
robehend1: if I recall, yeah
08:04
it's pretty easy
08:05
<robehend1>
cool. i'm curious on how performance will be.
08:05
<_UsUrPeR_>
been a while since I experimented with fat clients, but there wasn't much to change
08:05
there's a lot of weird foibles that are fixed by fatclienting
08:05
<robehend1>
which is what i'm hoping for ;)
08:05
<_UsUrPeR_>
especially issues between localapps and server apps
08:06
I.E. opening word spreadsheets from firefox/google email
08:06
<robehend1>
ltsp-remoteapps fixed alot of my issues, but its still hit or miss
08:06
<_UsUrPeR_>
things like that
08:06
yeah
08:06
<robehend1>
plus i ended up running most of the common apps, like OpenOffice and Firefox, as localapps anyways
08:06
<_UsUrPeR_>
ok, speaking of local vs server applications, I have a doozyt
08:06
err doozy
08:06
<elias_a>
mgariepy: Thought so :)
08:06
<robehend1>
kill it with fire?
08:06
<_UsUrPeR_>
I am running eclipse as both a localapp and server application
08:07
as a localapp, it works fine
08:07
as a server application, the program fails to run, stating that "the workspace is in use or cannot be created"
08:07
the workspace is a directory created in the user's home dir
08:07
<robehend1>
hmm
08:08
<_UsUrPeR_>
inside of the directory, which is created upon running, it creates /home/<user>/workspace . inside there, it creates a .metadata dir, and inside the .metadata dir, it creates a .lock file
08:08
deleting the .lock file does nothing
08:08
<robehend1>
thats weird.
08:08
only time i've had issues similiar to that was on Mac OSX
08:09
<_UsUrPeR_>
disclosure: All user home directories are nfs shares, and I am running this on an LTSP cluster
08:09
though neither of those really should matter that much
08:09
<robehend1>
one of these days, i'm going to sit down and play with LTSP cluster. i'm quite curious on it
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08:11
<_UsUrPeR_>
robehend1: it is a good thing
08:11
<robehend1>
_UsUrPeR_: just as a thought, could you take a test users workspace folder and just give it 777? should show if its a permission issue
08:12
<_UsUrPeR_>
robehend1: no dice
08:12
same problem
08:12
<robehend1>
hmm. anything in logs? though i'm not sure which one i'd be for that
08:12
<_UsUrPeR_>
neither am I
08:13
<robehend1>
kill it with fire?
08:13
out of curiosity, why would you want to have it as both a server and localapp?
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08:25
<robehend1>
for fat-clients, is the system loading the OS into a ram-disk, or is it actually using local storage?
08:28
<hahlo>
when tried to build client got an error: "W: Failure trying to run: chroot /opt/ltsp/amd64 mount -t proc proc /proc"
08:29
is it possible to build 32bit server to 64bit client?
08:29
<robehend1>
yes
08:29
lts-build-client --arch i386
08:30
er, ltsp, not lts
08:30
<hahlo>
otherway around my server is i386 and fat client will be amd64
08:31
<robehend1>
hmm, interesting. Technically, it should work, since the 64bit code would only be run on the fat client..
08:32
<hahlo>
I got that above error is it related to architechtures?
08:32
<robehend1>
very well could be. I've never tried doing it the way your asking, though. Is there a reason you want 64bit fat clients?
08:34
<hahlo>
I just thought to put stronger hardware on client side it is i5 with 6gb ram, I could use pae kernel in i386 too could I?
08:35
<robehend1>
mhmm, and find increased stability
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08:37
<robehend1>
is there a way to install a fat client without it install, say, openoffice and such into the chroot?
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08:38
<Gadi>
hahlo: you cannot build a 64-bit client on a 32-bit system because the system cannot run the chroot's binaries
08:38
<hahlo>
ah ok
08:38
<Gadi>
hahlo: and we don't have much in the way of cross-compiling support
08:38
or "cross-building" in this case
08:38
:)
08:39
<hahlo>
Gadi: but I could use pae-kernel in fatclient image could I?
08:39
<_UsUrPeR_>
hmm. ok, his appears to a write issue to nfs from the client
08:39
<Gadi>
sure - you can use whatever kernel you like
08:39
<hahlo>
ok thanks
08:39
<_UsUrPeR_>
I am able to write to the user's nfs-shared home directory from the console, but cannot write to the user's home dir with firefox, or openoffice
08:40
<Gadi>
I forget the command line option to do so...
08:40
<_UsUrPeR_>
stranger still, it creates the file name, but cannot put data in the file (i.e. it will create a file with the name, but it is 0 bytes)
08:40
<hahlo>
now that my image build failed what I should do to clean up and start over?
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08:41
<Gadi>
sudo rm -rf /opt/ltsp
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08:42
<hahlo>
ok
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08:46
<Gadi>
hahlo: quick-and-dirty: if you are running Ubuntu, edit: /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/020-kernel-selection
08:47
<hahlo>
yes thanks
08:47
<Gadi>
hahlo: change "generic" to "generic-pae"
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09:04
<_UsUrPeR_>
running a 10.10 ltsp server here
09:04
err 10.04
09:04
why does dhcp3-server not automatically start?
09:05
I see it in /var/log/messages - dhcpd writes leases to the files
09:06
then it's shut off, and I have to manually start dhcp3-server :/
09:06
<robehend1>
well, thats just plain weird. i've always had the issue of it starting, cuz i forget to remove it ;)
09:19
<evil_root>
lol agreed robehend1
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10:09
<_UsUrPeR_>
ok, so I figured out one problem, and am on to another
10:09
I was having problems writing to the directory, because the nfs server sharing out the users home dir was also mounting the directory :D
10:10
now that I have fixed that ussue, I am having problems logging in :/
10:10
I enter a username and password, and my client creates the user directory from skel, then sits there
10:10
no errors, no restarting X
10:10
nothing about passwords or the inability to write to the directory
10:10
it just... sits there :/
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10:33
<evil_root>
_UsUrPeR_ can you ssh to the ltsp app server using that username/pass
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10:52
<alkisg>
gsouque: if you want put a comment on the bug report saying that removing nbd-proxy solved your booting problems
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10:59
<moobyFR>
Hi
11:00
<evil_root>
hi
11:00
<moobyFR>
I want to use LTSP for providing both acces to several Linux server (X11) or RDP server (windows
11:00
Apart definint an entry for each VT, is another way to do that ?
11:01
<gsouque>
alkisg: ok i will do this i also had to put the new version of nmb_ ltsp_nbd and regenerate the initrd file
11:02
<alkisg>
gsouque: About ltsp_nbd and generating the initrd, unfortunately that's required on lucid, but what do you mean with "nmb_" ?
11:03* alkisg hopes nbd-proxy can move into an ltsp-cluster* package...
11:05
<gsouque>
alkisg: sorry just a copy and past error ...
11:05
<alkisg>
np
11:06
<robehend1>
alkisg: say, when you have a chance, I've got a few questions on fat-clients
11:06
<alkisg>
robehend1: shoot, it's beer time over here... :D
11:06
<gsouque>
alkisg: is this required on 10.10 too?
11:06
<robehend1>
alkisg: ha not fair, i havent even gotten lunch yet
11:06
<alkisg>
gsouque: only the pxelinux.cfg/default part, putting nbd_proxy=false there
11:06
<gsouque>
ok
11:07
<robehend1>
alkisg: basically, I finally got some clients that I can make into fat-clients. I understand I build it just by using the --fat-client switch. But I can find little to no documentation on how they work. Do I need to have hard drives in the machines? Does it load the whole thing into a ramdisk? Will it use the /homes from the server, or do I need to setup an nfs export, so students get the same homes on fat and thin clients?
11:07
<alkisg>
!fatclients
11:07
<ltspbot>
alkisg: "fatclients" :: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
11:08
<alkisg>
Did you read that?
11:08
<robehend1>
yes
11:08
showed me how to use fat-clients, but i guess I'm wondering more of the thought behind em
11:08
<alkisg>
OK then you'll need to put your questions + answers there :D
11:08
Hard drives => no
11:09
Whole thing in a ramdisk => no, as in thin clients it's just a networked disk, reading only the parts it needs each time
11:09
Use the /homes of the server => yes, by default with sshfs, but if you want you can also use nfs easily
11:09
<robehend1>
any reason to?
11:10
<alkisg>
Some apps don't work well (or at all) with sshfs
11:10
<robehend1>
makes sense
11:10
<alkisg>
googlechrome needs some weird workarounds, evolution, googleearth etc
11:10
It's a locks issue, sshfs doesn't support them
11:11
<robehend1>
well that makes sense
11:11
<alkisg>
students get the same homes on fat and thin clients => sure most labs here are mixed, they have e.g. 6 fat and 6 thin clients
11:11
<robehend1>
nice. thats what i was hoping.
11:12
if i have say, localapp firefox on the thin clients, and then some fat clients, would their bookmarks be present in both?
11:12
<alkisg>
Normal bookmarks? Or are you doing something weird with them?
11:12
<robehend1>
normal bookmarks. Kids cant seem to remember a web address to save their life
11:13
<alkisg>
All /home/username is accessible (a) directly on the server on thin clients (b) with sshfs for localapps or fat clients (c) with nfs if you specify NFS_HOME for fat clients
11:13
And since the bookmarks are under /home/username, they're there too
11:13
<robehend1>
hmm nice
11:13
i wasnt sure were firefox stored them, to be honest
11:15
<alkisg>
/home/username/.mozilla/firefox/profile.default/places.sqlite
11:15
You can even edit that with an sqlite3 script
11:15
<robehend1>
alrighty, final question
11:15
er, maybe 2 final questions ha
11:16
the --fat-client tag installs all kinds of software, evolution, open office, etc. Is there a way to pick and choose, or am I just basically building a thin client with local-apps then
11:17
<alkisg>
The easiest way would be to let it install what it wants, and remove stuff you don't want later, but if you want you can also "transform" a localapps chroot to a fat chroot with 3-4 commands inside it
11:17
<robehend1>
oh, how do you do that
11:17
<alkisg>
/usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/030-fat-client
11:18
E.g. disable network manager and gdm
11:18
<robehend1>
hmm
11:18
<alkisg>
and touch $CHROOT/etc/ltsp_fatchroot
11:19
<robehend1>
hmm, alright
11:19
since this is a new server, ill just do the standard fat-client install and get rid of the crap ;)
11:19
<alkisg>
robehend1: what exactly do you want to remove? I didn't see anything that bothers me...
11:20
(other than adding a few MB on the chroot, which doesn't matter speed-wise)
11:20
<robehend1>
wanting to remove transmission, gnome-terminal, empathy, the vnc and rdp client, gwibber
11:20
<alkisg>
Ah, for policy reasons, ok
11:20
<robehend1>
yep
11:21
while most of them are blocked at the firewall by port blocking, i figure its not nice to tease
11:22* alkisg uses a club for that, it's more effective :P
11:22
<robehend1>
ha, if only
11:22
darn public school and there lack of corporal punishment
11:22
i should move to Texas.
11:23
<evil_root>
um....
11:24
texas is capital punishment
11:24
<robehend1>
i thought some k-12 still had the paddle there.
11:24
coulda swore i read an article
11:24
<evil_root>
nope, its texas, they just electrocute people they dont like
11:24
<robehend1>
ah
11:24
well, you know, that might work for a few students
11:24
<evil_root>
indeed
11:25
but i will never go back to that dam state, scares the hell out of me
11:25
<robehend1>
eh, i could see that, ya
11:32
alkisg: with fat-clients, if down the road i need to add a program, say pidgin, is it just like installing local-apps? e.g chroot /opt/ltsp/fatty apt-get install x ?
11:32
<alkisg>
Yup
11:32
<robehend1>
hmm, nice
11:32
<alkisg>
robehend1: you don't need 2 chroots, you can use the same (fat) chroot for thin, localapps + fat clients
11:33
<robehend1>
i did see how you can put that in the lts.conf setup
11:33
<alkisg>
Easier to configure + maintain
11:33
<robehend1>
i'm just building a seperate chroot for testing it out before deployment though
11:33
<alkisg>
Clients can be fat or thin automatically based on their RAM
11:33
FAT_RAM_THRESHOLD, default = 300 if I remember well
11:33
<robehend1>
how do you do localapps if you have thin and fat clients in the same chroot though
11:34
like, say, firefox
11:34
<alkisg>
If it's a thin, it'll use any localapps you have
11:34
<robehend1>
oh thats right, i have to define the localapps in the lts.conf
11:34
<alkisg>
Nope
11:34
<robehend1>
ok, then i'm confused
11:34
<alkisg>
Erm, all available apps would be made local, so yes you'd need to define just a few of them, so that not all local apps are used
11:34
By default you don't need to define the localapps
11:34
<robehend1>
ah ok
11:35
now it makes sense
11:35
i wouldnt want a thin-client with 256 ram trying to load gimp ;)
11:35
<alkisg>
Right
11:36
<robehend1>
also, with a fat-client, when you click on something in the firefox download window, i'm assuming it'll open up according to it's mime-type?
11:36
<alkisg>
Fat clients behave exactly like standalone installations (except for any sshfs quirks)
11:37
So yup
11:37
<robehend1>
hmm nice
11:37
i've had good luck so far with using remoteapps, but noticed a few quirks yet, sadly
11:37
namely, it'll work great when downloading the file right in firefox and using ltsp-open to open it, but if i went into the downloads window and attempted to open, wouldnt go
11:39
<alkisg>
File a bug for that, I'm sure it's easily fixable
11:39* alkisg doesn't use neither localapps nor remoteapps, just thin+fat clients
11:39
<robehend1>
sneaky snake
11:40
<alkisg>
Although gnome-about-me should probably be ran as a remoteapp on fat clients...
11:40
...to allow the users to change their passwords
11:40
<robehend1>
can you tell certain programs to be remote apps in a fatclient?
11:40
<alkisg>
afaik yes, like usual, but I've never tried it
11:41
<robehend1>
hmm. i ask cuz of gimp, and letting it use the power of the server would be handy
11:41
<alkisg>
Hmmm not sure there, I think gimp behaves better on 512 RAM than on a thin client
11:42
<robehend1>
i'm more worried about rendering, as the kids are using these damn 14 megapixel cameras that produce jpg monstrosities of images..
11:42
and the teacher doesnt want them to scale it down..so their all working in 4400 by 5600 images..
11:42
<_UsUrPeR_>
ok, got it figured out -- nfs v4 fixed all the problems we were having
11:42
<alkisg>
Ouch
11:43
<robehend1>
exactly
11:43LedHed has joined #ltsp
11:44
<alkisg>
Well I suppose all it would take is a ltsp-remoteapps gimp "$@"
11:46
<LedHed>
I have several LTSP clients, and their time drifts. Is there a way for them to get time from the LTSP server, or should I just install ntpd on the client image?
11:47
<alkisg>
Install ntpd on the ltsp server and use TIMESERVER in lts.conf
11:47
<robehend1>
alkisg: ha, i never thought of that
11:53
<LedHed>
alkisg, thanks
11:55Da-Geek has quit IRC
11:55
<LedHed>
alexqwesa, I already have TIMESERVER set in ltsp.conf and ntpd running on the server
11:55
but the clients dont sync time
11:56
<alkisg>
LedHed: (it's alkisg, not alexqwesa) distro/version?
11:56
<LedHed>
oops. Sorry. Damn auto complete
11:56
alkisg, Ubuntu
11:56
10.04
11:57
<alkisg>
!SCREEN_02
11:57
<ltspbot>
alkisg: "SCREEN_02" :: to get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using%20a%20shell%20SCREEN
11:57
<alkisg>
Get a root shell, and from there, try: ntpdate $TIMESERVER; hwclock --systohc --${HWCLOCK:-"utc"} --noadjfile
11:58
(put your server ip instead of $TIMESERVER)
11:58
<LedHed>
TIMESERVER = 10.1.1.251
11:59
oh
11:59
on the client
11:59
sorry
11:59
<alkisg>
Yup
11:59
To see if there are any error messages etc
11:59
<LedHed>
echo $TIMESERVER returns a blank line
12:00
<alkisg>
Yes, that's normal, just replace it with your server ip
12:00
But on a root shell, not on a gnome terminal, read the above link
12:01
Also, if your client time is "correct" but exactly 2 hours more or less than expected, it might be a utc issue, not a timeserver issue
12:01
Erm, some number of hours, not 2 hours
12:02NixGeek has joined #ltsp
12:02
<NixGeek>
I installed LTSP on an xubuntu box, adn tried to boot another computer over the netork. It gets to the ubuntu screen with the loading dots, but then doesn't load (or it loads extremely slowly, I left it for an hour)
12:03
<LedHed>
alkisg, ok, I did as you said, I suspect that synced the time with my time server, and updated the RTC in the bios.
12:03
but how do I get them to sync on a regular basis?
12:03
cron.hourly?
12:03
<alkisg>
LedHed: that command is ran automatically on boot
12:03
<LedHed>
alkisg, they never get rebooted
12:03
<alkisg>
Ah
12:04
!lts.conf
12:04
<ltspbot>
alkisg: "lts.conf" :: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
12:04
<alkisg>
See the CRON* lts.conf variables there
12:04
<LedHed>
thanks
12:05
<alkisg>
NixGeek: remove "quiet splash" from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default, reboot the client and watch for any error messages
12:11
<NixGeek>
I'm getting "udhpc[331]: sending discover... (break) udhpc[331]: sending select for 192.168.1.5...
12:11
udhpc[331]: recieved DHCP NAK" over and over again
12:11
<alkisg>
So your dhcp server is configured to send a NAK to this client
12:12
What are your dhcpd.conf settings?
12:12
(NAK = ignore the ip offer you just got, I'm the authority and the other dhcp server that send you that offer is a rogue one)
12:13
<NixGeek>
http://dpaste.com/307160/
12:13
<alkisg>
And do you have another dhcp server around?
12:13
<NixGeek>
my router
12:13
<alkisg>
That's not a correct setup
12:14
If you want to continue using your router as a dhcp server on the same subnet, can you at least configure it to provide a boot filename?
12:14
(and remove the dhcp3-server from the ltsp server)
12:15
<NixGeek>
I don't know, but I doubt it. it's pretty, um, basic. Next upgrade for me is a new router that supports dd-wrt or tomato
12:15
<alkisg>
Then this will come in handy for your setup: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP
12:16
<NixGeek>
thnak you!!
12:28
<robehend1>
random question. anyone know of any good handbooks for Gimp? I have the official docs, but I'm looking for an "idiots guide" for my art teacher
12:33
<NixGeek>
alkisg: I follwed the guide to the letter, and now It won't even show the ubuntu screen
12:34
<_UsUrPeR_>
Can anybody tell me where the /etc/hosts file is written from in ltsp-cluster?
12:34
<alkisg>
NixGeek: at what point does it stop? last lines?
12:34
<_UsUrPeR_>
It's over-written on client boot
12:35
<NixGeek>
alkisg: it can't even find the server
12:36
<alkisg>
NixGeek: you mean that it doesn't load the kernel?
12:37dr_data has joined #ltsp
12:37
<NixGeek>
I mean the serer is not being found byu the client...
12:37kesou has joined #ltsp
12:38
<alkisg>
NixGeek: how are you booting the client? pxe? gpxe? etherboot?
12:38
<NixGeek>
PXE
12:38
<alkisg>
NixGeek: on the server check /var/log/daemon.log, do you see the offers that dnsmasq sends to the client there?
12:39
<Gadi>
NixGeek: and the router is on the same switch as the client with a running dhcp server?
12:40
<NixGeek>
I'm thinking about purging everything and restrting
12:40
<alkisg>
NixGeek: for a dhcp problem? I don't think purging will solve anything..
12:41
<NixGeek>
i messed up alot of things, I'm a bit new to thin clients, but I have like 4 or 5 old computers and I wanted to see if I could get them running as thin clients.
12:41Pweg has joined #ltsp
12:42
<NixGeek>
wait a second, the last line of my daemon.log is dhutdown was requested
12:43
and I have the server and client connected to the router, directly, no switches
12:44
<alkisg>
alkisg@alkis:~$ grep dnsmasq /var/log/daemon.log
12:44
Jan 11 20:19:28 alkis dnsmasq[1136]: using nameserver 10.160.31.1#53
12:44
etc etc, lines like that, which say that dnsmasq actually gets the client request
12:46
<NixGeek>
http://dpaste.com/307234/
12:46
<alkisg>
No client requests there
12:47
Can you pastebin your /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp.conf?
12:48
<NixGeek>
http://dpaste.com/307239/ I'm sorry about all of this, it'll probably be some stupid thing on my end. I hope I'm not being to much trouble
12:48komunista has quit IRC
12:49
<alkisg>
NixGeek: and your server ip is?
12:49
<NixGeek>
192.168.1.8 static ip
12:51
<alkisg>
DId you restart dnsmasq after putting that configuration file?
12:51
<NixGeek>
I restarted the entire server
12:52
<alkisg>
So you have a line like this in your daemon.log ? Jan 11 18:07:52 alkis dnsmasq-dhcp[1136]: DHCP, proxy on subnet 10.160.31.10
12:52
<NixGeek>
no, and I just tried restarting it and I got this: dnsmasq: failed to create listening socket: Address already in use
12:53
<alkisg>
Did you remove dhcp3-server?
12:53
As the wiki page says?
12:54
<NixGeek>
yes, I just checked again also
12:55
<alkisg>
sudo netstat -nap | grep :69
12:55
<NixGeek>
udp 0 0 0.0.0.0:69 0.0.0.0:* 2374/in.tftpd
12:58
<alkisg>
Ah sorry, I meant 67
12:58
sudo netstat -nap | grep :67
12:58
<NixGeek>
nothing
13:01
<alkisg>
sudo service dnsmasq restart
13:01kesou has quit IRC
13:01
<alkisg>
Any errors there?
13:01
(the problem is your configuration, there's something wrong with it and dnsmasq doesn't start)
13:02
<NixGeek>
dnsmasq: illegal repeated keyword at line 9 of /etc/dnsmasq.d/ltsp.conf.save
13:02
<alkisg>
Remove that file, you can't have the same configuration twice
13:02
I assume your editor made a backup file there...
13:03
<NixGeek>
that would probably be it
13:03
okay, let me try to boot
13:06
It getting to the ubuntu screen now, but when I look at the output (if you press the esc key, it lets you see the outout) I'm getting it's sending discover 3 times, and then getting no lease and failing
13:07
<alkisg>
Read the wiki page again, the section about IPAPPEND 3
13:09
<robehend1>
alkisg: wth fat clients, do I need to do all my likewise-open and pam mounts in the chroot, or will they still pull from the server as well. I'm still waiting for the image to finish, hence asking instead of trying
13:09
<alkisg>
Authentication is done on the server as with thin clients, so afaik no.
13:10
What pam mounts?
13:10
<robehend1>
alkisg: i have pam mounts setup to automatically mount samba shares according to active directory group membership
13:10
<alkisg>
Under /home/username/somewhere?
13:11
<robehend1>
but since it ties in with likewise, i'm thinking it should go
13:11
yep, under their home
13:11
<alkisg>
Well, if localapps can see that, then fat clients will also see that dir locally
13:11
Not sure if NFS will, though
13:12
(sshfs should be ok)
13:12
<robehend1>
i'm hoping i can get by with sshfs
13:14
<alkisg>
But I wonder if it would be faster to mount those locally...
13:14
it would, but how much faster...
13:16
<robehend1>
hmm
13:16
i may have to test it
13:16
how does the user interact with the local file system? are commands issued as root, or as the user
13:22
<alkisg>
As the user
13:22
<robehend1>
hmm. it should mount fine then, as long as likewise passes the auth token
13:30
<NixGeek>
I followed that part of the wiki page before, and now I did it again, and It's still sending the discover 3 times and then failing. here is what "sudo ltsp-update-image --force"'s output was. http://dpaste.com/307342/
13:33
<alkisg>
NixGeek: pastebin your /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
13:34
<NixGeek>
http://dpaste.com/307356/
13:35
<alkisg>
NixGeek: remove the autoconf=dhcp part
13:36
<NixGeek>
okay, now try to boot the client?
13:36
<alkisg>
udhcpc has some known problems, fixed in later versions, that should work around the problem
13:36
Yes
13:39
<hahlo>
where is lts.conf in ubuntu 10.10?
13:40
<alkisg>
/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
13:40
(unless you upgraded and your tftp setup is broken and you're using /srv)
13:41
<hahlo>
thanks I thought I looked that place, is it possible that it doesn't exist?
13:44
<robehend1>
yes, its possible. just create it
13:47
<hahlo>
ok thanks
13:58
<dr_data>
I have two machines that I want to run as fat clients, with identical installs. Unfortunately, one has nvidia graphics and the other fglrx (ati/amd). Do I have to have two entirely different images for these to use the appropriate binary blobs on each?
14:03
<Gadi>
dr_data: do nvidia and fglrx conflict?
14:03
ie, can you not install them concurrently?
14:04
if all you need to do is select the correct driver (ie it doesnt autodetect), you can set XSERVER=nvidia in lts.conf for the appropriate machines
14:05
or you can have separate static xorg.conf files and do X_CONF=/path/to/file
14:08
<robehend1>
i've had good luck with Nvidia drivers being detected now. pretty much everything but the ION 2, so far
14:09komunista has joined #ltsp
14:10
<_UsUrPeR_>
hey all. I have ssh killing my proc on one of my ltsp servers. When running top, sshd is pushing ~25% of my processor.
14:11
<robehend1>
try ldm_directx = true ?
14:11
<_UsUrPeR_>
I have LDM_DIRECTX = true set
14:11
<Gadi>
_UsUrPeR_: stop scp'ing porn
14:11
<_UsUrPeR_>
fffffffffffffff
14:11* _UsUrPeR_ shuts off the torrent
14:11
<robehend1>
Gadi: man gotsa do what a man gotsa do
14:11
<_UsUrPeR_>
srsly dude, you work hard, you play her
14:11
d
14:11
err hard
14:11
<robehend1>
i like your first way better
14:12
<_UsUrPeR_>
heh
14:12
anyway, any hints?
14:13
<Gadi>
_UsUrPeR_: trace the children of that process
14:14
may lead you to the real culprit
14:14vagrantc has joined #ltsp
14:15
<_UsUrPeR_>
Gadi: hmm
14:15
ok
14:21
<robehend1>
ls
14:22
<m4xx>
lawl
14:23
<robehend1>
dont mock my failure of dual monitors ;)
14:25
<m4xx>
my new fav quote: <_UsUrPeR_> srsly dude, you work hard, you play her
14:28
<NixGeek>
alkisg: If your still on the channel, thank you SO MUCH!
14:28NixGeek has left #ltsp
14:28
<muppis>
How I get local hdd mounted in client?
14:28
<m4xx>
rob, you can always get a usb to vga converter, or dvi splitter if that's what the output is on your mobo
14:29
<robehend1>
m4xx: i will, one day. after i gain the idea to clean off my desk enough for 2 monitors..
14:29
so, 2012.
14:29
<vagrantc>
muppis: LOCALDEV_DENY_INTERNAL_DISKS=false in lts.conf
14:30
<muppis>
vagrantc, thanks. That's missing from manpages.
14:30
<vagrantc>
local disks are disabled by default for some data integrity reasons (i.e. booting a laptop with suspendd to disk)
14:30
muppis: what version of ltsp-docs do you have installed?
14:30
<muppis>
vagrantc, looking at website.
14:31
<robehend1>
ok, weird. Just built a new chroot, made sure that it's export is in inetd.conf , added the right port to pxelinux.cfg/default, but i still get the "error: failed to connect to nbd server" message
14:31
<vagrantc>
added to bzr:
14:31
104 Vagrant Cascadian 2010-02-14
14:31
document LOCALDEV_DENY* lts.conf parameters.
14:32
muppis: which website?
14:32
<muppis>
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/karmic/man5/lts.conf.5.html
14:32
First founded with Google.
14:33
<vagrantc>
note "karmic"
14:33
look for one with a more current version
14:33
muppis: or just install ltsp-docs and use "man lts.conf"
14:34
then you *should* get a version appropriate to whatever you have installed
14:35
<muppis>
I noted that afte i asked.. Thank you anyway, now I got little wierd looking Gnome, but local hdd mounted. :)
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14:41
<muppis>
Just for curiosity, I checked effect of LDM_DIRECTX. Incredible.
14:41
<robehend1>
oh? how much better throughput?
14:42
<muppis>
robehend1, yes.
14:42alexqwesa has joined #ltsp
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14:42
<vagrantc>
muppis: yes, dropping encryption will obviously have a huge impact
14:42
<muppis>
Can play youtube -videos without any lag.
14:42
<robehend1>
without local apps?
14:43
<m4xx>
ok, who broke it?
14:43
<muppis>
m4xx, I didn't do it.
14:43
robehend1, yes.
14:43
<robehend1>
wow. i may have to try that, for my curiosity
14:43
<muppis>
This client is C800 / 256 RAM. Server is C2D E6300 / 1 GB RAM.
14:44
<robehend1>
c800..not familiar. Celeron?
14:44
<muppis>
robehend1, old school one, at time of Pentium III. :)
14:44
<robehend1>
ha oh wow
14:46
<_UsUrPeR_>
woof
14:46
that's some old stuff right thur
14:48* alkisg hides his amd k6 @300 Mhz/64 ram :P
14:49
<robehend1>
i had one of those laptops
14:49
<muppis>
But hey, my previous home server was dual Pentium III with 1 GB RAM. Turn off no longer than 3 months ago. :)
14:49
<robehend1>
i wont admit to my pore celeron with 256 megs ram thats my home server at the moment.
14:49
<m4xx>
300 or 333?
14:50
<robehend1>
alkisg: quick way with a fat-client to make sure its *actually* a fat client?
14:51
<alkisg>
robehend1: open a terminal... if it says @server, it's on your server, if it says @ltspxx, it's a fat client...
14:51
300
14:52* alkisg also has a debian squeeze ltsp server with 128 ram, 400 mhz :D
14:52
<robehend1>
wait wait wait, the server has that?
14:52
jeebus
14:53
<muppis>
I had K6-2 at once..
14:53
<alkisg>
Just for testing, sure, but clients can boot from it :)
14:53
<robehend1>
i hope not many
14:53NixGeek has joined #ltsp
14:54
<robehend1>
is fat client performance supposed to be extremely slow? Cuz ya..i'm noticing it is..
14:54
<muppis>
I think I might switch back my old homeserver to get C2D to better use..
14:55
<alkisg>
robehend1: no, it's supposed to be exactly the same as a local installation with a disk as fast as your network speed
14:55
<robehend1>
ah, that explains it. i'm on a 10 meg uplink here right now ;)
14:56
<alkisg>
Caching will help if a client has enough ram
14:56
<robehend1>
through a...*shudder* hub...
14:56
<alkisg>
So opening Oo or firefox the second time should be much faster...
14:56
<robehend1>
ya, noticed opening terminal was much better the second time
15:03dgroos has joined #ltsp
15:03
<dgroos>
Hi hi
15:04
<robehend1>
heloo
15:04
hey, another minnesotan!
15:04
<dgroos>
ya hey!
15:04
<robehend1>
celebration!
15:04NixGeek has quit IRC
15:04
<dgroos>
Indeed! Where you from?
15:04
<_UsUrPeR_>
robehend1: about fat client performance: I didn't notice any differences when using it
15:05
<robehend1>
up by fargo
15:05
_UsUrPeR_: I traced it down to my horrendous 10 mb/s link up back here in da cave
15:05
<_UsUrPeR_>
lol oh
15:05
that will do it
15:05
<robehend1>
so waiting for the kids to get out in 4 minutes, will go test on the actual network ha
15:05
<dgroos>
Cool. I drive by there when bringing my daughter to the U of Manitoba... from Mpls.
15:05
<robehend1>
nice to see another one in the state is looking at linux :D
15:08
<alkisg>
robehend1: ah btw, re-enabling compression for fat chroots in /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.conf makes your "network disk" about 3 times faster
15:08
<robehend1>
alkisg: any downside?
15:08
<alkisg>
No
15:09
(ah maybe nbd-proxy has problems with it, disable it if you have it enabled)
15:09
<robehend1>
already did ;)
15:09
nbd-proxy disable is part of my standard "makin a new chroot" list
15:10
<muppis>
Ok, it's time for me to get some sleep. Doing something so nasty that you guys don't like it at all..
15:10
<robehend1>
umm..enjoy?
15:11
<muppis>
robehend1, I'll enjoy from sleeping, but not this where I had to put my hands on.. (Ok, I tell. Had to install XP.)
15:11
<alkisg>
Boooo
15:12
<muppis>
Doing it without CD drives in machine..
15:12
<alkisg>
/kick muppis, and stay out
15:12
<muppis>
alkisg, heh. Please, it is just for a week. And I always can boot machine to LTSP. :)
15:13
But now time for some sleep.
15:13
Good night and stay in, it's cold out there.
15:17
<robehend1>
haha see ya
15:17
_UsUrPeR_: getting out of the cave and onto a network with sane speeds was all the difference
15:18
<_UsUrPeR_>
that makes sense
15:18
<robehend1>
only thing i have to fix now is the one custom image i used to make a menu..that i stored on the server, and now the menu isnt pulling the right icon
15:24bobby_C has joined #ltsp
15:28
<dgroos>
my room's invaded with students looking for help on projects... after school... I'll be back!
15:38
<robehend1>
wow, students wanting help. not fair.
15:45NixGeek has joined #ltsp
15:45
<robehend1>
so, if i made a menu in say, Sabayon, and created a custom menu with a custom icon which i saved in /usr/share/icons/students/ on the server..any way I could bring that icon to a fat client so it works?
15:56
ooo, nvm, got it
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16:06
<dgroos>
robehend1: well, to tell the truth, about half of those here were here because they weren't doing their work in class :)
16:06
alkisg: thanks for your cool ideas on ways to do the computer-tables.
16:06
<alkisg>
dgroos: did you decide to implement one of them?
16:07
<dgroos>
Your idea about making a cluster of nodes, 1 per table, connected wirelessly, sounded the best (of course I don't know if it is possible).
16:08
I wonder, can you connect low-power computers into a cluster ltsp server via wireless?
16:10
Oh yea, and then the clients would be connected via ethernet cable to these nodes.
16:11
like, 1 node would have 2-3 fat clients connected to them.
16:14
<alkisg>
Right, and you don't even need switches, 2-3 nics on those nodes would suffice
16:20
<dgroos>
Right, so clever!
16:21
Then, with some kind of multi-seat software that works on LTSP fat clients, I could have 4 clients fit into 1 table with only 2 recycled computers and 1 node.
16:21
<alkisg>
Erm, don't mix too much, you'll get an administrator's headache :D
16:21
<dgroos>
More than I have? :)
16:22
Right.
16:22
So, alkisg, you know that you can create a cluster via wireless? Or is that a pretty sure?
16:24
<alkisg>
I believe so, it's not booting over wireless, it's just communication after they boot... shouldn't matter if it's wired/wireless
16:25
<dgroos>
Makes sense. Isn't stgraber "Mr. Cluster"?
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16:39
<dgroos>
stgraber: ping
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16:40
<neil_d>
I have a new ltsp setup! but the client logins are not reliable... the correct name and password sometimes get refused by the server... is there anything that can be done about this?
16:47
<dgroos>
neil_d: I've never seen that problem in my 2+ years of using thin clients in my classroom. Though you can't believe how many times my students repeatedly mistype their username/password combo.
16:47
Have you seen any patterns?
16:49
<neil_d>
dgroos: i am using ubuntu/lucid
16:50
<dgroos>
That's what I'm using in my classes this year as well.
16:50
Last year Jaunty, the year before that Hardy. I really like Lucid--much more stable in several respects, esp. than hardy.
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