IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 27 May 2008   (all times are UTC)

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01:45
<alkisg>
ogra, I'm looking (and from what I've seen so far it's possible) for a way to enable the ltsp clients and server to seamlessly co-exist with other dhcp servers and clients (like, in mixed linux/windows environments). This will be done by slightly modifying ipconfig to send a specific dhcp request option, and by putting a match directive to dhcpd.conf to only reply to pxe/bootp/etherboot and ipconfig requests. My question is: if I do this, and if t
01:45
ogra, this "confirmation" will be helpful for me to convince the ipconfig maintainers. :)
01:49
<Pascal_1>
bonjour
01:50
<johnny>
why don't you just set dhcport
01:50
sounds easier
01:50
dhcpport*
01:50
<alkisg>
to enable pxe clients to boot
01:50
if I put 1068 they won't boot. :(
01:52
If I'm correct, then there won't be a need for a custom dhcp port (I think)
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02:03
<alkisg>
ogra, of course the dhcp match directive will be optional (a documentation hint), because some sites will only have the ltsp server as a dhcp server, and they'll need it to reply to non-ltsp clients as well.
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03:46
<alkisg>
Using /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default I can pass options to the initramfs for pxe clients. Anyone knows if I can pass similar options to etherboot clients?
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04:37
<alkisg>
OK, I found it, in dhcpd.conf I have to pass a special Etherboot signature as option-128 and the kernel parameters as option-129.
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05:00
<primary>
q-funk i double checked that amd-geode and core are installed but we still have the issue with the terminals not booting through to log in screen
05:00
<Q-FUNK>
installed, updated and the LTSP image rebuilt?
05:04
<primary>
yep
05:07
<Q-FUNK>
hm
05:09
deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/q-funk/ubuntu hardy main
05:09
can you try those core and geode packages instead and see if it improves anything?
05:10
those use al alternate solution
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05:45
<Nubae>
I'm getting this in my log files, and I've seen it either has something to do with VMware or mounting usb sticks: VMBlock warning: DentryOpRevalidate: invalid args from kernel
05:45
<stgraber>
vmblock is one of vmware's module
05:46
<Nubae>
could it interfere with usb stick mounting?
05:46
<stgraber>
maybe, IIRC it's managing I/O
05:47
<Nubae>
yeah, since its coming up sticks have stopped automounting... but there's little information, other than other people are getting the same error on launchpad
05:48
<stgraber>
did you search on vmware forum ?
05:50
<Nubae>
yeah, didn't get much luck there, launchpad seems to have the most info
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05:58
<new2linux>
does installing k12ltsp on fedora core 8 found on this site https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/InstallGuide is the same way as installing ltsp5 on fc9 http://k12ltsp.org/mediawiki/index.php/FC9-LTSP5_walk-through?
05:59
<alkisg>
stgraber, hi, in hardy scp-client (I think it's the old thin client manager) is running as a service. Is this supposed to happen? Haven't we moved to iTalc?
05:59
<stgraber>
ogra: ^ ?
06:00
<ogra>
alkisg, the client part is still there so you can easier connect the gui to it thin client manager will persist as lightweight tool but not as the default
06:00
if i find the time i'll drop the vnc pieces from it, the rest seems to work fine and doesnt need much maintenance
06:01
its nothing to manage a classroom with but for a 5 client office setup its a fine tool
06:02
the scp-client binary will only start if it detects you are on a thin client, else it stays off
06:02
<alkisg>
ogra, thanks! When you have 5 minutes, I'd like to talk to you about ipconfig -c bootp...
06:02
<ogra>
sure, shoot
06:03
<stgraber>
ogra: I'm looking at today's commits for iTalc and it looks like the UI in 1.0.9 will be a lot easier to change (user defined menu entry, toolbars where we can show/hide buttons, ...)
06:03
ogra: I may well be able to drop one more of my patches there :)
06:03
<ogra>
sweet !
06:04
sigh, that willowng code gives me headdaches
06:04
<stgraber>
and I'll probably push a debug release of iTalc to my PPA (if LP doesn't remove the dbg symbols) with some debug options turned on to get more details about those VNC crashes
06:04
<ogra>
i wonder how Amaranth ever got it to work ...
06:05
stgraber, if LP removes them from a clear -dbg package its a bug that needs to be fixed
06:05
<alkisg>
Here it goes: after a talk in ipconfig list, I learned that we should have a resident dhcp client, like dhclient. Now, with ipconfig, leases may expire and we may get into trouble. As a viable workaround, we may use ipconfig -c bootp, which (according to the RFC) requests for an infinent lease. This has a nice side effect, that ltsp clients ignore requests from other dhcp servers (e.g. routers) and it makes mixed environments (e.g. linux/windows) coo
06:05
<ogra>
makes mixed environments (e.g. linux/windows) co
06:06
^^^ was cut off there ^^^
06:06
<alkisg>
cooperate better
06:06
<stgraber>
ogra: do you have any webpage or something for willowng ? the only thing I can see is a 125 weeks old branch on LP :)
06:07
<alkisg>
ogra, so, in pxelinux.cfg/default, we should add ip=bootp, and somehow enable the nbd.img take the same kernel parameter... I tried option-128 and option-129 in dhcpd.conf and etherboot clients, but I couldn't pass the parameter to the kernel.
06:07
<ogra>
stgraber, i was woking the last three days on it, i'll push my branch and upload a package as soon as i have something that partially works
06:07
<stgraber>
ogra: ok, cool
06:07
<ogra>
(and i have to write up the spec we discussed at UDS)
06:08
guadalinex is urgently waiting for a working branch as well :) and i'm hoping for something suitable to push into gnome upstream :)
06:08
alkisg, how would that hanlde the case where you have more than 254 clients ?
06:09
<alkisg>
ogra, is there a limit in bootp clients?
06:09
<ogra>
if you have permanaent leases you run out at some point
06:09
no, but on IPs in a class C network
06:10
<alkisg>
ogra, I'm not saying that this should be the default behavior, rather a documented and supported option
06:10
<ogra>
i'm not really fond of switching on bootp by default without very very widespread testing what breaks
06:10
ah
06:10
well, additions are always welcome ;)
06:10
<alkisg>
ogra, if a network has more than 254 clients, how do we guarantee that there won't be ip conflicts now?
06:11
I mean, if a client stays up for some time and its lease expires?
06:11
<ogra>
we dont but if you have say 300 clients and not all of them run at the same time the remaining 46 need to be able to get an IP
06:11
so having a fixed lease might break it
06:11
<alkisg>
Yes, but if they also have another 300 non-ltsp clients, ip collisions could occur...
06:12
<new2linux>
hey guys
06:12
mind if i ask a question
06:12
<alkisg>
From what I understood, it would be better for admins to erase a lease file once in a while, than to risk ip collisions.
06:12
<new2linux>
You'll need to configure your NSF exports file so that the client will have access to its operating system. Just add this line to your /etc/exports file: /opt/ltsp *(ro,async,no_root_squash)
06:12
<ogra>
we had people running out of IPs at some point where there was a bug in ubuntus dhcpd that caused the client to request a new IP even on the second request ...
06:13
<alkisg>
But I'm just a teacher, I'm not sure if I understood correctly!
06:13
<ogra>
i dont want to see such issues again :)
06:13
<new2linux>
do i just go terminal, become root and then type vi /etc/reports
06:13
<ogra>
(that were 125 clients eaing up 250 IPs automatically)
06:14
<alkisg>
OK, so an option then. It's already there, we just have to document it. (1) tell me where, (2) tell me how to pass kernel parameters to etherboot images! :)
06:14
for pxe clients, just ip=bootp in pxelinux.cfg/default.
06:15
<ogra>
alkisg, http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/ch03s06.html
06:15
it should go there
06:15
<alkisg>
for etherboot clients, dhcpd.conf option 128 and 129 should be able to do it, but I couldn't make it.
06:16
<ogra>
new2linux, thats how it should work on fedora, yes
06:16
(as fasr as i understand it at least, not a fedora user here)
06:16
s/fasr/far/
06:16
<alkisg>
ogra, e.g. a random page that describes the 128/129 options is this: http://osdir.com/ml/ubuntu.user.edubuntu/2006-08/msg00000.html but i couldn't reproduce it.
06:18
ogra, I don't have access to write in this page, maybe I should write something to a wiki page and someone else to transfer it there?
06:18
<new2linux>
so vi /etc/exports --> press i for input --> type /opt/ltsp *(ro,async,no_root_squash) --> esc --> :wq
06:19
<ogra>
alkisg, talk to the ubuntu-doc team (via their mailin list or irc channel)
06:20
new2linux, i guess thats right, yes (we dont do such stuff in ubuntu, it's set up out f the box here)
06:20
(and we dont use nfs anyway by default :) )
06:20
<alkisg>
ogra, ok. If you know of someway to pass parameters to the nbi.img kernel, tell me please. :)
06:21
<new2linux>
what does nfs for?
06:21
it said e325 attention
06:22
found a swap file by the name /etc/.exports.swp
06:22
owned by root
06:22
while opening file "/etc/exports"
06:22
what should i do to erase the old one?
06:23
recover or vim?
06:23
what is vim?
06:23
what is vi?
06:24
<ogra>
alkisg, iirc you can create /etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf in the chroot, add BOOTPROMPT_OPTS to it and run sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 /usr/lib/ltsp/update-kernels
06:26
<alkisg>
ogra, that's what I wanted to avoid. In Greece we'll be deplying ltsp in some schools (I'm part of a pilot program) and many of them never saw a console
06:27
<ogra>
new2linux, vim is an editor (in ubuntu we ship nano for users which is more like the windows editor so its less complicated for users to understand)
06:27
<alkisg>
ogra, it would be OK to tell them to edit a file like pxelinux.cfg/default, but rebuilding the kernels may be too much for them, they'll hate linux instantly! :)
06:27
<new2linux>
sounds like ubuntu is easier for user who just migrate from windows to linux
06:27
<ogra>
alkisg, well, does the default setup not work for you ? many many schools use ubuntu ltsp out of the box without tweaking parametaers
06:28
<alkisg>
ogra, no, in all schools here we'll have to have a windows server and some windows pcs also, and a router=dhcp server
06:28* ogra doesnt understand why alkisg needs to tweak at all
06:28
<alkisg>
ogra, this gets us in a busybox :(
06:28
the ltsp clients get an address from the router and fall to busybox
06:28
<stgraber>
why can't you have a separate network for the thin clients ?
06:28
<alkisg>
No money! :)
06:29
<stgraber>
can't you use VLANs ? (if your switches support it)
06:29
<ogra>
wel, then fix your dhcp server to supply the proper next-server option
06:29
<alkisg>
ltsp_nbd already has provision for this with the IPOPTS kernel parameter, I just can't pass it the correct value from etherboot disks
06:30
<ogra>
use PXE emulation in etherboot
06:30
and you dont need to care anymore
06:30
<alkisg>
usually the routers (=dhcp servers) are very cheap with no configuration options like these
06:30
<ogra>
well, then use one of the LTSP servers ad dhcpd
06:30
s/ad/as/
06:30
or a windows machine if you feel more comfortable with that
06:31
<alkisg>
the ltsp-server is not always online! :) I've been thinking about this for weeks!
06:31
<stgraber>
alkisg: my house router cost me ~40$, has VLAN support, runs Linux and can do everything you want from VPN to custom DHCP server :)
06:31
<ogra>
keep it online then :)
06:31
<alkisg>
ogra, OK with the pxe emulation, how does that work?
06:31
stgraber, I had 2 serial mice I wanted to change and it took me 2 months to convince the principal...
06:31
<ogra>
etherboot acts as PXE client after the image was loaded
06:32
<stgraber>
alkisg: erk
06:32
<alkisg>
ogra, I'll dig into that.
06:32
<ogra>
look at rom-o-matic
06:32
there is a configuration option
06:33
<alkisg>
there's another problem with rom-o-matic, not all clients have the same NICs, so we usually use another disk (anadex.de) which supports most of them... Anyway, I'll manage!
06:33
<new2linux>
stgraber: you said your house router cost you only 40$, what are you using?
06:34* ogra guesses linksys
06:34
<stgraber>
new2linux: Buffalo WHR-G54S
06:34
<new2linux>
linksys cost more than that
06:34
<stgraber>
ogra: nope, same hardware but cheaper than Linksys
06:34
<new2linux>
see
06:34
linksys acquired by cisco already
06:34
<ogra>
mine costed €59 but has a DSL gateway integrated
06:35
(linksys)
06:35
<new2linux>
what does the router benefits for thin-client?
06:37
i've got so many setroubleshoot
06:37
anyway to get it fix automatically
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06:41
<ogra>
new2linux, get a server with two network cards, download the ubuntu alternate iso and follow https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
06:41
thats the easiest you can get
06:43
<new2linux>
i think so
06:43
;asdlfjadfj
06:43
which architecture should i get
06:43
for intel xeon 3065?
06:43
<ogra>
i368
06:44
<new2linux>
ok
06:44
<ogra>
and after install of the system use the -server kernel image instead of the default if you have more than 4G in your machine
06:44
<new2linux>
what's that for?
06:44
i have 4 g
06:44
<ogra>
(the i386 -server kernel flavour supports up to 64G)
06:45
usual i386 kernels end at 3G
06:45
<new2linux>
and about to share it to 10 thin-clients only
06:45
<ogra>
well, you will need about 128M per running client session on the server plus about 256M once for the server to operate
06:45
<new2linux>
u say get ubuntu alternate iso
06:45
u mean the edubuntu / kubuntu
06:46
xubuntu / gobuntu
06:46
<ogra>
so for ten clients you are easy up with 2.5G
06:46
<new2linux>
do you what does buntu means in my country?
06:46
<ogra>
there s link on the page i pasted
06:46
<new2linux>
it meant dead end
06:46
:(
06:46
indonesian language
06:46* ogra hasnt heard about that
06:47
<new2linux>
just fyi only
06:47
:)
06:47
<ogra>
i know ubuntu in russian means something rather rude though
06:47
<new2linux>
ok
06:47
<ogra>
check he link on the page
06:47
<new2linux>
so, i get the server ubuntu 1st?
06:47
<ogra>
look for ubuntu-alternate-i386.iso or something similar
06:47
<new2linux>
i get the server edition or the desktop edition?
06:47
<ogra>
desktop
06:48
<new2linux>
why not the server?
06:48
i have server chipset
06:48
on the motherboard
06:49
<ogra>
the server doesnt have a desktop installed
06:49
ltsp needs a desktop to log in to
06:49
just follow the help page
06:49
<new2linux>
ok
06:49
<ogra>
if you are done with everything, open the package tool and look for linux-image-server and install that package
06:50
<new2linux>
and after install of the system use the -server kernel image instead of the default if you have more than 4G in your machine --> so i just type "- server kernel image" on the terminal?
06:51
<ogra>
no
06:51
i can walk you through, finish a normal install first
06:52
<new2linux>
the ubuntu-alternate-i386.iso is different than the desktop installation is it?
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06:53
<new2linux>
which one should i download now?
06:53
<ogra>
ubuntu-alternate-i386.iso
06:53
<wwx>
<ogra> i know ubuntu in russian means something rather rude though
06:53
i doubt
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06:53
<ogra>
wwx, well, someone told me its "fuck" or "fucking"
06:54
<wwx>
just strange word and nothing more
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06:54
<wwx>
ogra, nope, fucking is jebat
06:54
<ogra>
ah, k
06:54
<wwx>
:)
06:54
<ogra>
then i probably was misinformed, i dont speak russian beyon da/njet :)
06:54
<new2linux>
indonesia-english dictionary and type buntu
06:56
i can't find the alternate file on the website
06:57
try google and must use torrent to download
06:57
<ogra>
do you see the link at the top ?
06:57
saying "get the iso from" ... with a link behind it
06:58
and a little CD icon in front
06:58
<new2linux>
http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download
06:58
i'm on there
06:58
<ogra>
no
06:58
the page i pasted 30min ago
06:58
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
06:58
<new2linux>
owh
06:59
so, i just click ubuntu desktop
06:59
<ogra>
no
06:59
<new2linux>
and click standard personal computer
06:59
<ogra>
alternate
06:59
<new2linux>
and below
06:59
there's a check box
06:59
<ogra>
no
06:59
gplease go to the page i pasted
06:59
<new2linux>
saying check here if you need the alternate desktop cd
06:59
ok
06:59
<ogra>
there is a direct link to the download dir
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07:00
<ogra>
"PC (Intel x86) alternate install CD" is what you want
07:01
<new2linux>
done :)
07:01
<ogra>
good
07:01
<new2linux>
40 minutes to go
07:01
<ogra>
there are also torrents
07:01
<new2linux>
i see now
07:01
so, i don't have to install all the way back
07:01
just upgrade from fedora 9 to ubuntu
07:01
right?
07:01
<ogra>
no
07:01
thats doesnt work
07:02
fedora != ubuntu
07:02
<new2linux>
i still have to start all over?
07:02
<ogra>
you need a fresh install
07:02
it takes about 1h
07:02
<new2linux>
yes
07:02
699 mb
07:02
<ogra>
and if your server has two network cards, everything will work out of the box
07:02
<new2linux>
i click on the pc (intel x86) desktop cd
07:02
<ogra>
(the install takes about 1h)
07:02
<new2linux>
wrong click
07:02
oops
07:02
alternate
07:03
ubuntu-8.04-alternate-i386.iso, 697mb
07:03
<ogra>
right
07:03
<new2linux>
3 hours 40 mins remaining
07:03
-_-
07:04
so, it's a fresh install
07:04
<ogra>
right
07:04
you cant mix up distros
07:04
<new2linux>
ok
07:05
after that, install linux-image-server
07:05
you said
07:05
<ogra>
well, you probably technically could with deep knowledge about both distros you want to mix :)
07:05
<new2linux>
and, after that what shold i do next
07:05
isn't ltsp integrated on ubuntu hardy heron?
07:05
<ogra>
right
07:05
<new2linux>
i'm really new2linux
07:05
can't even do 1 rightfully
07:05
<ogra>
everything will work out of the box after the fresh install
07:06
<new2linux>
ok
07:06
so, after linux-image-server, i just boot the client?
07:06
<ogra>
the -server kernel package is only needed for using all your RAM which you wont need in the beginning ... you can add it later at every tme
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07:06
<ogra>
you can just boot the client after the CD finished and rebooted your system
07:06
<new2linux>
simple as like that?
07:07
<ogra>
linux-image-server isnt needed for that
07:07
yes
07:07
<new2linux>
so, what does the image server for?
07:07
<ogra>
using all your ram
07:07
the kernel image on the CD can only use up to 3G
07:07
<new2linux>
i thought the ram will be used automatically?
07:07
i see
07:08
the image is to use the memory more than 3g
07:08
<ogra>
which is still enough for you
07:08
right
07:08
<new2linux>
nice
07:08
what about flash player on ubuntu?
07:08
which should i download?
07:08
flash-nonfree?
07:09
<ogra>
if you have done your install, open the applications menu on the desktop
07:09
<new2linux>
i did install ubuntu at 1st
07:09
<ogra>
go to "Add/Remove software"
07:09
search for flash :)
07:09
<new2linux>
and change to fedora, coz i can't install flash player onit
07:09
on it
07:10
<ogra>
or just open firefox and go to youtube, open a flash movie and firefox will handle the install
07:10
<new2linux>
really take an effort just to have flash player on the website
07:10
:p
07:10
i tried that
07:10
<ogra>
its a two click install in ubuntu
07:10
<new2linux>
just won't allow to install adobe flash player
07:10
<ogra>
from the firefox dialog ?
07:10
works flawless here on al my machines
07:11
<new2linux>
can't recall
07:11
i think yes
07:11
from firefox
07:11
on the tabs that shows up when you're missing a plug-in
07:11
<ogra>
it tels you it cant find flash and if it should install it ... you click yes, and thats it ... after some minutes flash works
07:11
<new2linux>
i install the server ubuntu
07:12
server i386 ubuntu
07:12
<ogra>
no idea about server, i dont use it for desktops :)
07:12
so i dont need flash on it
07:12
<new2linux>
i thought i need server for linux thin-client, when buying the hardware
07:12
didn't know that standard desktop hardware will do
07:13
<ogra>
you need desktop software
07:13
not HW
07:13
<new2linux>
coz, when reading ncomputing
07:13
<ogra>
the user session runs on the server
07:13
<new2linux>
it only can support 10 tc with windows xp
07:13
and lots more with windows server 2000/2003
07:13
so, i thought linux is the same
07:13
<ogra>
ncomputing is a hardware solution ... has nothing to do with the way ltsp works
07:14
not even remotely
07:14
<new2linux>
is not the same?
07:14
on technology term?
07:15
<ogra>
nope
07:15
totally different
07:15
<new2linux>
ok
07:18
5 hours to go...
07:18
could i just install the server i386?
07:18
i have the iso file for that
07:18
laksdjf
07:18
buntu
07:19
<Big-K>
I would recommend you the edubuntu desktop installation
07:20
<new2linux>
i do have that one as well
07:20
what's the different between ubuntu and edubuntu?
07:21
<ogra>
Big-K, there is no edubuntu desktop install CD anymor with hardy
07:21
<Big-K>
ogra, huh
07:21
<ogra>
the CD bits moved into the alternate CD now
07:21
<Big-K>
sorry didn't know that
07:21
<ogra>
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyClassromServer
07:21
the edu content is an addon CD now
07:22
giving us about 400M free diskspace to fill now
07:22
<Big-K>
07:22
<ogra>
(as opposed to having the edubuntu install CD which always forced us to drop stuff)
07:22
right, the edubuntu-desktop package still exists an wont go away
07:22
<Big-K>
ok
07:23
<ogra>
but the Classroom CD isnt existing anymore
07:23
whoops, typo in the link
07:23
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyClassromServer
07:24
<new2linux>
so, between all the ubuntu, edubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu, gobuntu
07:24
why you pick edubuntu? big-k
07:24
<ogra>
new2linux, it had the best ltsp integration until hardy ... all of LTSP5 was developed on edubuntu initially
07:25
now we moved that into ubuntu itself
07:25
<new2linux>
owh
07:25
<ogra>
new2linux, here you can read some history while downloading http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Ltsp5
07:25
<new2linux>
so i don't need to add the edubuntu now, right?
07:25
to get the ltsp
07:26
<Big-K>
right
07:26
<ogra>
right
07:26
<new2linux>
i see
07:26
<ogra>
and some more info on LTSP5 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/Content/UbuntuContributions#head-ad8371c02ef631489e14cc76ad6c6fbd1a4b72a0
07:26
<new2linux>
i'm a linux specialist in 6 months
07:26
<Big-K>
:D
07:26
<new2linux>
lots of reading on linux
07:27
<ogra>
yeah :)
07:27
<new2linux>
cheers
07:27
<Big-K>
I am pretty new to linux, too
07:27
<new2linux>
here linux specialist get better paid than windows specialist
07:27
<Big-K>
who wants to be a windows "specialist"? :D
07:28
<new2linux>
throw ur windows out of the windows, who needs windows and gates in the free world
07:28
i love that quote
07:28
<Big-K>
In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates?
07:29jammcq has joined #ltsp
07:29
<ogra>
:)
07:29
<Big-K>
didn't know the other one
07:29* ogra goes for some late lunch
07:30
<new2linux>
have a nice lunch
07:30* new2linux needs to take shower
07:30
<new2linux>
4 hours 30 mins to go
07:30
be back big-k
07:31
<Big-K>
new2linux, what is in 4 hours 30 mins?
07:31
<new2linux>
downloading the alternate iso file
07:31
ubuntu alternate iso file
07:31
<Big-K>
uh
07:32
what a connection o.O
07:32
<new2linux>
768kb/s conn. :(
07:32
3rd world conn. sux
07:32
but singapore has good conn.
07:32
s$45 for 3mb/s
07:33
where are you at big-k?
07:33
<Big-K>
germany
07:33
<new2linux>
what do u use for the conn. and how much do u pay for it?
07:33
<Big-K>
I'm @ work
07:33
we have a pretty fast one
07:33
<new2linux>
here that 768kb/s through cable conn. is about us$25
07:33
t1?
07:34
<Big-K>
07:34
<new2linux>
16 megabits or 16 megabytes?
07:34
<Big-K>
bits
07:35
<new2linux>
wow
07:35
16!!
07:35
i'll download all linux distros
07:35
<Big-K>
u only need debian :D
07:35
<new2linux>
hehe
07:35
<Big-K>
ubuntu is nice too
07:35
<new2linux>
but it's nice to know the differences
07:36
anyway, need my shower
07:36
talk to u later big-k
07:37
<Big-K>
ok, bye
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07:59
<Nubae>
Q-Funk u there?
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08:13
<Appiah>
I'm running Suse 10.3 and I setup ltsp acording to the wiki page on opensuse. When I'm booting on this newly created image , it complains about ifplugd not beeing installed
08:13
and it cant seam to setup the network
08:13
then the screen just goes black
08:14
kiwi-ltsp-setup -p says all mandatory packages are installed
08:15
<cyberorg>
Appiah, using prebuilt image?
08:15
<Appiah>
Yes
08:15
Since I have no idea on how to build my own
08:15
and the wiki does not describe that
08:17
<cyberorg>
Appiah, ok, network is already set up, ltsp clears screen before setting up xorg.conf, what graphics hardware you have?
08:19
<Appiah>
it's a virtual machine and it should be using VESA
08:19
<cyberorg>
Appiah, how much memory?
08:19
<Appiah>
512mb
08:20
<cyberorg>
Appiah, what vm?
08:21
<Appiah>
Vmware
08:22
<cyberorg>
Appiah, try full screen, i haven't had any problem with it, how big is your monitor
08:22
<Appiah>
22w
08:24
does not help
08:24
is there any logs I can check? beacuse I think there are more errors , I just cant see them
08:24
last error I see is about ifplugd not beeing installed
08:24
<cyberorg>
Appiah, you can ssh into the client
08:24
<Appiah>
aah
08:24
true
08:25
I'll check
08:25
dmesg and such
08:25
<cyberorg>
/var/log/ldm.log and check xorg logs too
08:26
<Appiah>
well that was stupid of me , I turned it off and THEN tried to ssh to it xD
08:29mikkel has quit IRC
08:29
<cyberorg>
Appiah, can you pastebin /srv/tftpboot/pxelinux.cfg/default ?
08:30
<Appiah>
hold on im checkin the logs
08:31
<cyberorg>
Appiah, also check if /etc/X11/xorg.conf is generated in the client
08:32
<Appiah>
there is and its using driver vmware
08:32
and Xorg log shows no errors about it
08:33
cant find any modelines thought
08:34
<cyberorg>
Appiah, you can try XSERVER = vesa in /srv/tftpboot/KIWI/lts.conf
08:35
<Appiah>
umm
08:35
<cyberorg>
also try booting another machine or a laptop if you have just to make sure everything is alright
08:35
<Appiah>
I did "startx" from ssh
08:35
and X started up
08:35
I think it dosent even try to run
08:35
X
08:35
and it wont allow me to see the tty?
08:36
console*
08:37
SCREEN_07=ldm , but ldm is nowhere to be found
08:39
<cyberorg>
Appiah, ldm is in the client
08:40
<Appiah>
oh
08:41
<cyberorg>
Appiah, try another machine first, just to know the entire sequence
08:41
<Appiah>
problem is that I cant right now
08:41
Have to try that later
08:42cliebow has joined #ltsp
08:42
<Appiah>
its ESX server and havent patched this VirutalSwitch to a realswitch so I cant pxeboot from a physicalmachine
08:43
<cyberorg>
k
08:45
Appiah, is the server in vmware too?
08:46
<Appiah>
yupp
08:46
<cyberorg>
it didnt like nbdroot last time i tested server in vmware
08:46
<Appiah>
ndbroot ?
08:47
<cyberorg>
we use nbdroot, but as you get as far as getting xorg.conf generated, that is not an issue here
08:47
tried vesa in lts.conf?
08:49
<Appiah>
yupp vesa did not help
08:52
<cyberorg>
Appiah, tray vga=791 in /srv/tftpboot/pxelinux.cfg/default on the server, not sure if that would help, but try anyway
08:52
*try
08:53
<Appiah>
I got a bunch of errors in kiwi.log
08:53
<cyberorg>
scp it on the server and pastebin it
08:54
<Appiah>
on the way
08:56Gadi has joined #ltsp
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09:04
<x86>
I'm looking for a suggestion on HP thin clients
09:04Skarmeth has joined #ltsp
09:04
<x86>
any ideas?
09:05mccann has joined #ltsp
09:08
<x86>
not sure if I should get the HP Compaq t5135 thin clients for $199 each, or the HP Neoware c50 thin clients for $249
09:09
the t5135 does not say it supports Linux
09:09
which I'm sure is just a marketing ploy
09:09
the Neoware ones all say they support "NeoLinux"
09:12Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
09:20
<Nubae>
x86... take a look at: thincan.com
09:24
<x86>
I want something supportable
09:24
HP gives me 3 years parts AND labor warranty on all thin clients
09:24
also we've standardized our IT infrastructure to HP
09:24
so I have to buy HP clients
09:25
<new2linux>
i love that thincan clients
09:26
do they sold in my country yet?
09:26
all we have here is ncomputing and those hp clients
09:27
5watts power consumption
09:28
<x86>
new2linux: HP clients work well with LTSP?
09:28
new2linux: and which model are you using?
09:28
<new2linux>
no, never use one before
09:29
i'm only using old pc
09:29
but pentium 3 still consuming 100 watts over
09:29
not including monitor
09:30
200 watts x 30 = 6000 watts
09:31
5 watts x 30 = 150 watts
09:31
40w x 30 = 1200w
09:32
good on electricity bill
09:38
<Nubae>
well, the thincan devs are on this channel a lot of the time
09:38
so that's pretty good support
09:38deavid has joined #ltsp
09:39
<x86>
no one has LTSP experience using HP thin clients?
09:39
or Neoware thin clients?
09:39
I just want to make sure they'll work fine before I spend 30k on all new clients
09:40
<new2linux>
try 1 first
09:40
working well or not, depends on the server as well
09:40
<Nubae>
can understand that... waht I did is order 1 as new2linux points out
09:41
We run a HP server though
09:42
has been excellent, except can't mention debian to the support staff at HP or they quickly tell you its unsupported
09:42
<new2linux>
see if it's running well all the applications that your company needs
09:42mccann_ has joined #ltsp
09:42
<Nubae>
actually, debian is slightly supported, ubuntu they totally frown at
09:43
<x86>
HP sells thin clients running Debian
09:43
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/12454-12454-321959-338927-89307-3634729.html
09:43
<Nubae>
yeah I live in Spain
09:43
and I'm talking about the server
09:45
my god that's expensive...
09:46
<new2linux>
450 for a tc
09:46
:D
09:46
might as well buy a pc
09:46
<Nubae>
there's no mention of etherboot or pxe either
09:46
<stgraber>
ogra: oh btw, the thin client I had for the demo on saturday worked just fine (the one with the transmetta CPU)
09:47
<new2linux>
can it be attach to the monitor like ncomputing?
09:47
<Nubae>
heh, dell is selling laptops for that price
09:47
seems a much better deal
09:47
<x86>
not what I'm buying
09:47
<Nubae>
with ubuntu preinstalled!
09:47
<x86>
I was just pointing out they do sell Debian thin clients
09:48The_Code has joined #ltsp
09:48
<x86>
think I'm going to buy this: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/12454-12454-321959-338927-89307-3341342.html
09:48
but not sure what "HP ThinConnect" is
09:48
<Nubae>
thincan.com sells for 50 and 100 euro
09:48
<new2linux>
50 - 100 euro
09:48
let me convert
09:48
how much is that in us?
09:49
<Nubae>
x 1.3
09:49
I believe
09:49
<x86>
lol
09:49
<stgraber>
$80 - $160
09:49
<x86>
try 2.2 ;)
09:49
<Nubae>
2.2?
09:49
<new2linux>
80 - 160, fair price
09:49
love those things
09:49
<Nubae>
come one the euro is not that high yet
09:49
<x86>
hmm wait
09:50
I was thinking pounds not euros
09:50
<Big-K>
no dollar is that weak :D
09:50
<x86>
1.5727 dollars for 1 euro
09:50
80 euro = 128.82 USD
09:50
<Nubae>
right, well its still a good deal
09:50
<new2linux>
oanda.com
09:51
<x86>
http://ichart.finance.yahoo.com/1y?eurusd=x
09:51
<new2linux>
yes 1.57
09:51
<x86>
that image is very sad
09:51
<Nubae>
I'm surprised some american company hasn't started selling generic thin terminals yet
09:51* stgraber is just using google :) "50€ in USD" and you get the result :)
09:51
<Nubae>
hehe, gotta love that fuzzy logic stuff
09:52
<new2linux>
50 euro = 78.5 us, fair price for the cheapest one
09:52
it's the best deal
09:52
80 us with only 5w!
09:53
ROI in only a year
09:53
<Nubae>
seriously though, once you calculate teh price of the flat screen tft, you're almost better off getting a laptop
09:53
<johnny>
yeah.. that's the problem with thin clients :(
09:53
<new2linux>
just saving from the electricity bills
09:53
<johnny>
who's doing one imac style?
09:53
anybody?
09:54
<Nubae>
think the best solution is with the classmate/eeepc style laptops + thin booting
09:54
<johnny>
screens are too small
09:54
<new2linux>
flat screen is only 30-40w mostly
09:54
<Nubae>
for cost that is
09:54
<new2linux>
totally 35-45w per tc
09:54
<Nubae>
the newer ones have bigger screens now though
09:54
<new2linux>
with thincan
09:54
<johnny>
still not big enough
09:55
if i gave somebody less than 15 inch screen.. they'd laugh
09:55
<new2linux>
17"
09:55
<Nubae>
well then the pre-mentioned dell laptops
09:55
<new2linux>
normally
09:55
<johnny>
dell laptops ain't that cheap..
09:55
<Nubae>
teh real cheapies are like 450$
09:55
<new2linux>
19" is quite medium
09:55
22" is big
09:55
<johnny>
new2linux, yeah right
09:55
nowhere i've ever been
09:55
<new2linux>
how big a laptop screen is?
09:55
<johnny>
i'm using one 17 and one 19 atm
09:55
one flat, one not
09:56
<Nubae>
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
09:56
<johnny>
usually 12-15.4 inch
09:56Skarmeth has quit IRC
09:56
<johnny>
there are 17's tho
09:56
<Nubae>
ok, I'm 50$ off
09:56
<new2linux>
but it's a very big laptop
09:56
with 17" monitor
09:56
:D
09:56
<johnny>
yep
09:56
HUGE
09:56
<Nubae>
still in euros thats 315$
09:56
<johnny>
need a solution to MOUNT the laptop
09:56
<new2linux>
hassle free to move around though
09:56
<Nubae>
thats a good deal
09:57
<johnny>
Nubae, power savings not so good tho
09:57
and then you still need to make it easier to add discs
09:57
<Nubae>
better than a desktop
09:57mccann has quit IRC
09:57
<new2linux>
but a thincan and a 17" monitor almost require less energy or almost the same as bringing around a 17" laptop
09:57savetheWorld has quit IRC
09:57
<johnny>
disc drives in laptops are not something i'd trust a user with, if the laptops were mine
09:57
somebody would snap it off accidentally
09:58
<Nubae>
disc drives?
09:58
<johnny>
cds
09:58
dvd
09:58
<Nubae>
why do u need disc drives?
09:58
<johnny>
cuz people would like to burn cds?
09:58
<Nubae>
that isnt possible anyway with ltsp
09:58
<johnny>
atm
09:58
<Nubae>
I just get tehm to use the server
09:58
one place to burn
09:59
<johnny>
i would only do that if i had a jukebox
09:59
err media changer
09:59
so i could stock 100 or so at one time
09:59
and it would just spit em out
09:59
but those ain't cheape ither
09:59
<Nubae>
cds are not needed... use memory sticks instead
09:59
<johnny>
you can't put a memory stick in a car cd player
10:00
or in a discman
10:00
<Nubae>
discman... that still exists?
10:00
<johnny>
or whatever else peopel still have laying around
10:00
<Nubae>
:-)
10:00
<johnny>
sure
10:00
my gf's car still has cd player
10:00
<Nubae>
well, the kids at this school are unlikely to have that laying around
10:00
<johnny>
no way to put a flash drive in :)
10:00
yet..
10:00
her car is too new for me to try to take it apart and mod it :(
10:01
<Nubae>
heh
10:01
car too new, player too old
10:01
<johnny>
yep
10:01
<new2linux>
-_-
10:01
<johnny>
and newer cars come with ipod connections
10:01
but i'll never buy an ipod
10:01
stupid proprietary nonsense
10:01
<new2linux>
in here, some still have cassette player
10:01
:D
10:01
<johnny>
hehe
10:01
<new2linux>
a double din player, that has a single cd/dvd with cassette player
10:02
<johnny>
yeah
10:02* johnny <3 mix tapes
10:02
<new2linux>
i never see a music store that still selling cassette
10:02
<johnny>
been awhile since i could play one tho
10:02
<Nubae>
here in Spain you see caswettes sold at the bus stations :-)
10:02
but mostly in rural places
10:03
like local folk music
10:03
<johnny>
my friend is in spain right now
10:03
meeting some old revolutionary ...
10:03
<Nubae>
oh yeah, what part?
10:03
<new2linux>
cool
10:04
<johnny>
not sure atm... but he's prolly on his way back today
10:04savetheWorld has joined #ltsp
10:04
<Nubae>
why would this: sudo ltsp-update-image -a fati386
10:04
suddenly not do anything anymore
10:05
I took out ltsp-client-core from it... maybe that's why?
10:07
heh, yeah
10:07
<Big-K>
what is -a fati386 for?
10:07
<Nubae>
so one cannot do apt-get remove ltsp-client-core
10:07
or image wont rebuild anymore
10:07
I put it back and now it works again, funny
10:07
Big-K: Low Fat clients
10:07
<new2linux>
11 minutes to installing alternate ubuntu
10:07sepski has joined #ltsp
10:08
<Big-K>
aha
10:08
<new2linux>
:D
10:08
hey big-k
10:08
<Big-K>
hey new2linux
10:08
<new2linux>
5 hours just now was using dl program from firefox
10:09
after installing the addons, download them all
10:09
it's getting faster
10:09
no more 5 hours
10:09
hehe
10:09
<Big-K>
:)
10:09
<new2linux>
3 hrs
10:10
how do we manage internet bandwidth on thin-client?
10:10
can still using the standard bandwidth management?
10:11
<Nubae>
what's teh screen command to get a console, something like SCREEN_04=terminal?
10:12
<new2linux>
don't ask me any commands
10:12
<Big-K>
afaik shell
10:12
<rjune>
I think that's it.
10:12
<Big-K>
SCREEN_02=shell
10:13Q-FUNK has quit IRC
10:14
<Nubae>
cool, thanks
10:17slappy has joined #ltsp
10:20
<slappy>
Hi, I would like to use the autologin feature with LDM. When I make a ifconfig -a on the client, it gives me the MAC adress of the server's network card. My question is: how can I get the MAC of the client's NIC?
10:20* new2linux off to install ubuntu
10:20new2linux has quit IRC
10:21
<johnny>
you would have to either read it from the card itself on the outside, or login locally on the client
10:21
or read your dhcp server log
10:21
i always go with dhcp server log
10:21
err dhcp lease file
10:21
<slappy>
in /var/log ?
10:21
<johnny>
no.. dhcp lease.. i don't know where isc dhcpd stores it
10:22
i use dnsmasq
10:22
<Nubae>
/var/lib/dhcp3/dhcpd.leases
10:22
on ubuntu
10:23zeltron has quit IRC
10:25
<slappy>
I (you) found it. Thanks
10:25hersonls has joined #ltsp
10:26
<Nubae>
I couldn't get autologin to work... let me know if it works for you
10:29
<x86>
does NX work with LTSP?
10:29
I guess I'm not sure how the whole thin client thing works ;)
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10:33
<slappy>
Nubae:I doesn't work in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf or in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf (with an lstp-update-image / sshkeys). Any clues?
10:33
<Big-K>
does anyone know how to execute a script when a user log out?
10:34
<Nubae>
slappy... like I said, I couldn't get autologin to work either
10:34
<johnny>
autologin is great.. i use it with guests
10:34
and assigned hostnames
10:35
<Nubae>
think there are problems, read something in launchpad - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/161794
10:36
<slappy>
johnny: wich release do you use. I'm using ubuntu 8.04
10:36
<johnny>
me too
10:36
<slappy>
humm
10:36
did you spell some magic?
10:36
<Nubae>
johnny, u just added teh usera nd pass to lts.conf?
10:37
jeez... sticky fingers
10:37
<johnny>
no
10:37
i used sshkeys.. cuz some idiot logged in remotely and setup an irc bot
10:37
<Nubae>
sshkeys?
10:37
<johnny>
yes.. auth with ssh keys
10:37
<slappy>
can you give us a starting point?
10:37
<x86>
does NX work with LTSP?
10:37
<johnny>
this is my config
10:37
http://rafb.net/p/fdesot35.html
10:38
x86, no idea.. but people often ask that
10:38
<x86>
just got off the phone with HP, and the HP Neoware c50 does indeed support PXE booting
10:38
<Nubae>
LDM_ALLOW_GUEST=Y - that's how
10:38
<johnny>
it doesn't natively work
10:38
<x86>
is that the only requirement for using it with LTSP?
10:38
<johnny>
x86, and enough ram
10:38
<x86>
on the server or the client?
10:38
<Nubae>
both
10:38
<x86>
not sure what the client would need much ram for
10:39
<johnny>
it needs at least 64
10:39
128 is a better bet
10:39
<x86>
these have 256
10:39
<johnny>
you won't be able to run local apps tho
10:39
so flash will prolly suck
10:39
<Nubae>
yeah almost enough to run them as low fat
10:39
<johnny>
not full fat?
10:39
<x86>
I dont want to run local apps at all -- and no Internet at all
10:39
purely OpenOffice and some other office-like apps (abiword, koffice, etc)
10:40
<Nubae>
then u dont need much ram at all
10:40
<x86>
right
10:40
these come with 256mb standard, I figured that'd be fine
10:40
<johnny>
if you want the proprietary drivers you need at least 30M for them
10:40
hopefully you won't need those
10:40
<x86>
proprietary drivers for what?
10:40
<johnny>
video
10:42
<Nubae>
so hang on johnny... autologin works with which user as guest?
10:42
<johnny>
all my users are guests
10:43
but they all have accounts
10:43
named after the PC
10:43
the user/pass was hostname/hostname
10:43
thats why i had to implement sshkeys
10:43
too easy to guess
10:44
i used dnsmasq to give map hostnames to mac
10:44
<Nubae>
ok, so just by having the hostname the same as the user/pass it allows guests to autologin?
10:44
<johnny>
yes, without configuration per user
10:44
which is ultra annoying to manage a flat file for that
10:44
<Nubae>
yeah I already have that, though do it through dhcp
10:45
<johnny>
the ALLOW_GUEST doesn't actually do autologin
10:45
if you want just autologin you use LDM_AUTOLOGIN
10:46
<x86>
anyone use Neolinux with LTSP?
10:46
<Nubae>
that doesnt work
10:46
<x86>
(is that even possible?)
10:46
<Nubae>
there's a bug in autologin
10:46
<johnny>
why would you wnt to do that?
10:46
<Nubae>
but if you're saying it works you're way, I'll do it that way
10:46
<johnny>
my solution brings up the greeter, with a button called "Login as Guest"
10:46
<Nubae>
good enough I guess
10:46
and it doesnt log out?
10:47
<johnny>
people never logout .. the machines stay up all day
10:47
in the guest account
10:47
<Nubae>
so when it logins as guest, its the user guest?
10:47
<johnny>
no
10:47
hostname/hostname
10:47
<Nubae>
this is what is confusing me :-)
10:47
ok... so its hardwired that way
10:47
<johnny>
you can still override it
10:47
that's just the default
10:48
a happy default for me
10:48
<Nubae>
where is that set then?
10:48
<johnny>
inside the code
10:48
<Nubae>
hardcoded
10:48
?
10:48
<johnny>
defaults are always hardcoded
10:48
that's what makes them defaults
10:48
<Nubae>
but you said you can override it
10:48
<johnny>
sure
10:49
<Nubae>
dont say by changing the code...
10:49
<johnny>
LDM_USERNAME, LDM_PASSWORD or whatever it is
10:49
but why bother
10:49
<Nubae>
that doesnt work... well it might with ldm_allow_guest
10:49
<johnny>
why?
10:49
why do that
10:49
<x86>
anyone use Neolinux with LTSP? or is this even possible?
10:49
<Nubae>
well, cause I want seperate users for each machine I want guest access too
10:49
<johnny>
x86, wtf is neolinux
10:49
if it's a normal distro.. then it would need an ltsp5 port
10:49
<x86>
johnny: Neoware's thin client linux platform
10:50
<Nubae>
otherwise what happens if they run firefox or whatever?
10:50
<johnny>
Nubae, i said each machine goes by hostname
10:50
10 times :)
10:50
<Nubae>
oh wait... hostnames... they are alrady sepeate
10:50
doh
10:50
ok ok
10:50
<johnny>
makes it simple to manage
10:50
<Nubae>
fine... well thats a solutino I guess... not real autologin
10:50
but close enough
10:50
<johnny>
autologin will work with that too
10:50
or should
10:51
i know it did for me
10:51
maybe the overrides are just broken
10:51
<Nubae>
it doesn't... I've tested it several times on gutsy and hardy
10:51
<johnny>
try setting the username and pass as the hostname
10:51
and enable LDM_AUTOLOGN
10:51
<Nubae>
yeah I'll try that
10:52
<johnny>
the GUEST thing didn't exist in gutsy
10:52
<Nubae>
autologin I'm talking about
10:52
<johnny>
just mentioning that i was using autologin and not guest in gutsy
10:52
<Nubae>
the guest thing, you've just made me realise exists today
10:52
<johnny>
cuz guest didn't work in hardy
10:53
the guest thing is nice if you have some real accounts
10:53
and some guest
10:53
that way they can still login with their username and pass
10:53
if they have one
10:53
from any terminal
10:53
<Nubae>
yeah, figures that's pretty nice
10:53
<johnny>
you can thank vagrantc for that feature i think
10:54
all that's missing is timed autologin for the guest feature
10:54
that way you get the best of both worlds
10:54
<Nubae>
wow, that would be nice
10:54
anyway, have to go...
10:54
<johnny>
cya
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11:10
<jitan>
hi
11:11
anyone speaking french or spanish?
11:14
<slappy>
jitan: oui
11:15
<jitan>
slappy: cool
11:15
j'ai une question
11:15
je voudrais savoir comment démarrer un client depuis grub ou lilo
11:16
tu sais comment?
11:16
<stgraber>
jitan: tu dois pouvoir utiliser l'image disquette d'etherboot
11:16
jitan: et l'utiliser comme image disque
11:17
<jitan>
est-ce qu'il y a un lien à me donner?
11:17
<stgraber>
rom-o-matic.net pour le .img
11:18
<jitan>
uoi, comme pour une disquette?
11:18
oui
11:18
<stgraber>
ouais
11:19
<jitan>
et puis?
11:19
<stgraber>
tu utilises quelle distribution ?
11:19
<jitan>
ubuntu 8.04
11:19
pour les clients mandriva
11:19
<stgraber>
ok, donc install le paquet "syslinux"
11:20
ah, donc il faut faire cette partie là sur les clients ...
11:20
donc faut trouver le paquet syslinux pour mandriva
11:21
<jitan>
pas de problème avec ça
11:21
<stgraber>
ensuite tu dois avoir un fichier /usr/lib/syslinux/memdisk
11:21
il faut l'utiliser comme kernel dans grub
11:21
et mettre le .img comme initrd
11:21
ça permet de booter n'importe quelle image de disquette avec grub
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11:23
<jitan>
c'est très intéressant ça, linux me surprend de plus en plus!!!!
11:23
je vous remercie les deux, je vais essayer ça.
11:24
à bientôt, merci
11:24
<stgraber>
np
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11:58
<x86>
anyone use Neolinux with LTSP? or is this even possible?
11:59
<johnny>
nobody knows
11:59
<gbolte>
not heard of it...
11:59
<johnny>
ask them :)
11:59
<gbolte>
what is its claim to fame?
11:59
<johnny>
x86, go to their chatrooms or list and find out
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12:09
<x86>
they have no chatroom it looks like
12:10
<alkisg>
Hi, does anyone know of a boot floppy that supports multiple NICs, but is based on the newer etherboot version, gpxe? Something like http://etherboot.anadex.de/ (this is for the old version...)
12:13mccann_ has joined #ltsp
12:14
<johnny>
x86, list perhaps?
12:14
<x86>
list what?
12:14
<johnny>
mailing list
12:14
did a web search tell you anything?
12:15
my thought is that if it is another thin client solution, then they prolly wont' play together
12:15
but that's why i suggest you ask them
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12:18
<gbolte>
x86, according to wikipedia HP purchased neoware so I suggest you go talk to your hp rep
12:18
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoware
12:18
<x86>
yeah HP has no idea what LTSP is though
12:18
gah this is such a headache!
12:18
<gbolte>
http://www.hp.com/sbso/busproducts_thinclient.html?jumpid=ex_r295_go/thinclient
12:19
thats what I could find
12:19
sorry
12:22
<johnny>
x86, from that description.. no
12:22
they will not work together
12:22
<gbolte>
anyway x86 I dont see why the devices would not work with ltsp but I doubt the os will
12:22
<johnny>
they are two products that do the same thing or similiar
12:22
<gbolte>
yeah
12:23
agreed
12:23
but that means the hardware will most likely work provided you can pxe boot them
12:23
<johnny>
yeah.. but the hardware will tho.. as gbolte said
12:23
<gbolte>
need to choose another distro to boot them with
12:23
eg ubuntu
12:24
x86, if you tell us a little more about the devices eg model numbers there may be more research that can be done to see if it will work
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12:32
<gbolte>
johnny, you are working on ltsp for gentoo right?
12:32elisboa has quit IRC
12:33
<johnny>
yes
12:33
also sorta for ubuntu
12:33
barely
12:33
<gbolte>
have you got to the point of being able to login to gentoo with ldm?
12:33
<johnny>
i only knew how to do it for gentoo, because i had already deployed it with ubuntu
12:34
yes
12:34
there are 3 manual steps. which is why it hasn't been pushed to ltsp upstream yet
12:34
but the chroot part is automated
12:34
<gbolte>
do you have an issue where ldm freezes if you type the wrong password in
12:34
<johnny>
i've seen that on ubuntu before
12:34
but not lately
12:35
<gbolte>
hmm k
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12:35
<johnny>
i'm using either the latest bzr (for gentoo) or whatever is in hardy
12:35
<gbolte>
we have it with opensuse and cyberorg said that it is because ldm is expecting a password failed response from sshd
12:35
<johnny>
what does it actually get?
12:35
<gbolte>
but our default is to just prompt for password again
12:36
so it never gets a failed password response and then gets confused
12:36
<johnny>
what does it get?
12:36
<gbolte>
what do you mean
12:36
<johnny>
it expects password failed as you said
12:36
but what happens instead
12:36
<gbolte>
it gets a login prompt again just like with gentoo
12:36
<johnny>
just like ubuntu does
12:36
but it says password failed?
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12:36
<johnny>
on the greeter
12:37
<gbolte>
no no thats what it wants to say
12:37
it just sits there
12:37
with nothing
12:37
heh
12:37
<johnny>
i'll have to go to my clients and see
12:37
can't now tho.. doing web dev stuff
12:37
<gbolte>
k
12:37
<johnny>
that's my primary means of income
12:37
not ltsp..
12:37
<gbolte>
heh
12:37
yeah
12:37
<johnny>
i'm not making any money off ltsp yet
12:37
<gbolte>
I am working on getting it deployed for work
12:37
so we are trying to smooth out the bugs
12:38
so it is usable
12:38
<johnny>
i just haven't been able to spendtime on ltsp in the past few weeks
12:38
i hope i can soon tho
12:38
<gbolte>
heh yeah
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12:40
<gbolte>
oh johnny if you put the wrong pass it just gets stuck on Verifying password, please wait....
12:40
:D
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12:42
<johnny>
you really should setup a reference implementation of ubuntu or debian
12:42
most likely debian tho.. until closer to intrepid
12:42
that way you'll know if the brokeness is from your stuff or in general
12:43
vm are nice for that ;)
12:43
<gbolte>
heh yeah
12:43
<cyberorg>
gbolte, see devzilla, it is sshd_config settings
12:44
<gbolte>
cyberorg, yeah I just tried setting it to 2 and 0
12:44
both do not work
12:44
<cyberorg>
gbolte, you need rcsshd restart
12:44
<gbolte>
I did
12:44
after each change
12:44
and restarted the client
12:45
<cyberorg>
gbolte, try ssh and see if you get failure on first wrong password first
12:45
<gbolte>
k
12:46
it disconnects and then said too many auth failures
12:46
<japerry>
cyberorg: Received disconnect from 10.0.x.x: 2: Too many authentication failures for admin
12:46
<cyberorg>
japerry, on settings it 0?
12:46
<gbolte>
yes
12:46
<japerry>
yes set on 0
12:47
<cyberorg>
try 1
12:47
<japerry>
thats what happens after putting a bad password once
12:47
<gbolte>
alright
12:47sepski has quit IRC
12:47
<gbolte>
changing it to 1
12:47
<cyberorg>
oh, then it seems ok
12:47
"<japerry> thats what happens after putting a bad password once"
12:47
ldm should now give you login again
12:48
<japerry>
yah it should
12:48
;-)
12:48
but it doesn't
12:48
<cyberorg>
that worked for me here
12:49
<japerry>
I wonder if our ldm is outdated.. we're still using our nvidia image
12:49
<gbolte>
I could switch to cyberorg's prebuilt
12:49
but I dont know if it would make any difference
12:50
<cyberorg>
try prebuilt one, but i think they are all same
12:50
japerry, btw, did you try initrd with the bootsplash i attached to your bug report?
12:50
<japerry>
cyberorg: yah I saw that, we tried it and it didn't boot
12:50
no network drivers
12:51
<cyberorg>
what drivers you need? default should have all covered
12:51
<gbolte>
forcedeth
12:52
<cyberorg>
gbolte, that is there, i am using it on my laptop
12:52
<gbolte>
hmm
12:52
it said that it couldnt find it
12:53
<cyberorg>
it is present <file name="drivers/net/forcedeth.ko"/>
12:53
<gbolte>
:/
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12:54
<cyberorg>
gbolte, japerry try it with prebuilt image, you shout get "Too many authentication failures" on first wrong password, but should be able to log in with correct password on first try
12:55
<gbolte>
hmm alright
12:56
cyberorg, I just tried your boot splash image again and it is still saying failed to load network module
12:57
and the splash is not showing...I assume it is supposed to show after the initrd is downloaded from tftp
12:57
<cyberorg>
gbolte, put kiwidebug=1 in /srv/tftpboot/pxelinux.cfg/default
12:57
<gbolte>
k
12:58
<cyberorg>
you should get a prompt when it fails next, try to modprobe it
12:58
<gbolte>
in the append line?
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12:59
<cyberorg>
yes
13:00
btw the initrd will work with opensuse 11.0 beta3 image only
13:01
<gbolte>
cyberorg, could not load /lib/modules/2.6.22.17-0.1-default/modules.dep no such file or directory
13:01
oh
13:01
well thats why
13:01
:P
13:01
lol
13:03
<x86>
how many XDMCP clients can I have on a single server with (2) quad-core processors and 2GB of RAM?
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13:04
<dyn>
x86: how fast are the CPU's ?
13:05
2gb of ram is not very much.. but, it kinda depends on what your thin clients are going to be doing
13:06
A lot of firefox and openoffice? You need maybe.. 256-512 per thin client to be safe
13:07
<x86>
no firefox
13:08
just open office
13:08
<dyn>
are you stuck with 2 gigs or can you at least go to 4?
13:08
how many clients would you *like* to have ?
13:09
we have about 25 people using FF and OpenOffice and other intenstive stuff w/ 16gb of RAM on quad 3.0ghz w/ a good adaptec RAID card
13:10
we could probably get away with 12 gigs but.. we're being 'scalable'
13:11
<gbolte>
we get away with 8 gigs
13:11
:P
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13:12
<gbolte>
we have 3.9 gig free
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13:17
<x86>
I was going to start with 2... the server I'm looking at can go to 32
13:17
<dyn>
total used free shared buffers cached
13:17
Mem: 16036 15643 392 0 518 8289
13:17
-/+ buffers/cache: 6834 9201
13:17
<x86>
looks like 16MB
13:17
<dyn>
so yeah.. 7 used.. 9 free heh. So we could get away with 10 prob. for 22-25 people.
13:18
free -m gives it in MB's :)
13:18
<gbolte>
total used free shared buffers cached
13:18
Mem: 8113 7969 143 0 175 3603
13:18
-/+ buffers/cache: 4190 3922
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13:23
<cyberorg>
check out the kiwi talk video and presentation http://en.opensuse.org/Talk
13:24sepski has joined #ltsp
13:24
<gbolte>
k
13:24
cyberorg, this is the same one that japerry watched the other day I think
13:25
<cyberorg>
gbolte, yup
13:25
<gbolte>
ah
13:25
ok
13:25
you need to do a talk on kiwi-ltsp
13:25
:P
13:25
hehe
13:27Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp
13:28
<cyberorg>
i did one recently, very tiny one, some slide straight from jammcq's old presentations
13:28
<gbolte>
ah
13:29Pascal_1 has joined #ltsp
13:31
<cyberorg>
demo was the main "talk" http://forgeftp.novell.com/kiwi-ltsp/KIWI-LTSP.pdf
13:32
<gbolte>
cyberorg, where did you do this presentation
13:33
<cyberorg>
http://dev.compiz-fusion.org/~cyberorg/2008/04/14/soss-08-a-great-success/
13:33
this event http://dev.compiz-fusion.org/~cyberorg/2008/03/31/a-two-day-symposium-on-open-source-software/
13:34
<gbolte>
wow nice
13:34
looks like it went well according to your blog
13:34
:)
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13:35
<cyberorg>
yeah, have a look at pictures, it was house full, more than venue's capacity
13:38
<gbolte>
I especially like the "pimping" of the opensuse t-shirt
13:39
definitely looks like a full house
13:40
<cyberorg>
heh, there are more of those :) http://picasaweb.google.com/jigish.gohil/KanheriCaves/photo#5203531640913881234
13:41
<gbolte>
haha
13:41
<cyberorg>
i wear that one everywhere i go
13:41
<japerry>
I want one of those shirts
13:41
<laga>
does it ever get washed? ;)
13:41
<japerry>
I wonder if there will be some at OSCON
13:41
<cyberorg>
laga, once i take it off ;)
13:42
japerry, all you need to do is file a lot of bugs on bno to get one
13:42
<japerry>
hehe
13:42
well starting on that ;-)
13:42
<cyberorg>
*bnc
13:42
but kiwi-ltsp bugs dont go there
13:43hersonls has joined #ltsp
13:43
<gbolte>
http://picasaweb.google.com/jigish.gohil/Bangalore/photo#5170265510993532034 I like that novell booth
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13:43
<japerry>
hehe
13:44
ahh ohmm well I guess I'll have to start filing more bugs then
13:44
<gbolte>
japerry, we need some of this snow action in our ltsp setup http://picasaweb.google.com/jigish.gohil/Opensuse/photo#5144128163319819378
13:44
<japerry>
hheh interesting, everyone in india seems to have nice button down shirts, I'd look way out of place methinks
13:45
<Skarmeth>
hi all
13:45
<cyberorg>
japerry, you wont find me in one of those, i don't own one
13:45
<Skarmeth>
I am trying LTSP 5 with debian etch and I am having problems with VIA RHINE NIC. The boot process stop's on IP-Config phase... any problems with this NIC's? using a intel one works well, all my thin clients use via rhine nic's
13:46
<japerry>
cyberorg: heh nothing like these shirts eh? http://picasaweb.google.com/jigish.gohil/Symposium/photo#5189033316650272658
13:47
<cyberorg>
japerry, i dont have any :(
13:48
<japerry>
me niether.. some days I wonder if I should have more professional dress. I goto MS conferences once in a while around seattle and everyone wears buttondowns it seems.. its fun to poke fun at their stuff
13:48
<cyberorg>
i like kiwi-ltsp logo, may be i'll get some t-shirts done
13:48sepski has quit IRC
13:48
<japerry>
heh think novell will sponsor some of those?
13:49
I hope that once our system is running well and we spread the joy, that some of us can talk about kiwi-ltsp at OSCON or various linuxfest conferences
13:49
<cyberorg>
Skarmeth, you need to catch vagrantc when he is around
13:49Simys has joined #ltsp
13:50* cyberorg goes to sleep
13:51Simys has quit IRC
13:52
<gbolte>
g-night
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14:29
<slappy>
Is there a way to change ldm default language?
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15:04
<cliebow>
did we lose scotty again?
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16:09
<gbolte>
anyone around
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16:12
<vagrantc>
gbolte: just ask:
16:12
!question
16:12
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "question" is if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
16:13
<gbolte>
vagrantc, you have a ubuntu box?
16:13
<vagrantc>
not i, no.
16:13
<gbolte>
oh
16:13
damn
16:14
<vagrantc>
but unless you ask your question, nobody can help.
16:15
<gbolte>
I just want to see what the ubuntu sshd server gives as an error if you ssh in to it 3 times incorrectly
16:16
<Gadi>
Permission denied (publickey,password).
16:16
<gbolte>
oooh ok
16:16
cool
16:16
thats with 3 attempts or just one
16:17
<Gadi>
3
16:17
<gbolte>
ok
16:17
Gadi, thanks thats the problem
16:17
opensuse throws a different error
16:17
<Gadi>
same with 1
16:17
ssh -o "NumberOfPasswordPrompts 1" localhost
16:18
what error do you get?
16:18
<gbolte>
when you try to log in too many times it says Received disconnect from 10.0.5.11: 2: Too many authentication failures for admin
16:18
or whatever user you are using to login with
16:19
<Gadi>
grep -i maxauthtries /etc/ssh/sshd_config
16:19
<gbolte>
opensuse dose not throw any errors on incorrect password attempts it just prompts again for password
16:19
I have it set to 0 right now
16:19
<Gadi>
comment it out
16:19
and restart ssh
16:19
<gbolte>
alright
16:20
<Gadi>
or alternatively, make it >3
16:20
:)
16:20
<gbolte>
I just commented it out
16:21
ok now that error message is correct
16:21
<Gadi>
if you want to reuce the number of password prompts, do it on the client not the server
16:21
<gbolte>
ssh admin@10.0.5.11
16:21
Password:
16:21
Password:
16:21
Password:
16:21
Permission denied (publickey,keyboard-interactive).
16:22
<Gadi>
ie: echo "NumberOfPasswordPrompts 1" >> /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_config
16:22
ltsp-update-image
16:22
<gbolte>
on ubuntu dose it say "please try again" when you fail a password
16:23
<Gadi>
yes
16:23
<gbolte>
ah see thats why opensuse is broken
16:23
it dosent say anything
16:23
just prompts for password again
16:24
<Gadi>
try the NumberOfPasswordPrompts thing
16:24
<gbolte>
k
16:24
<Gadi>
it will brush the problem under the rug
16:24
<gbolte>
lol
16:24
<Gadi>
:)
16:25
<gbolte>
I wonder how hard it would be to get my ssh server to just say "please try again"
16:25
lol
16:25
that would "fix" it too
16:25
haha
16:27
in your sshd config Gadi is there a param for that "Please try again"
16:29
<Gadi>
fraid not
16:29
<gbolte>
:/
16:29
must be compiled in
16:29
or compiled out of opensuse sshd
16:29
lol
16:31
<Gadi>
could be from pam
16:32
<gbolte>
Gadi, you might be right
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16:32
<gbolte>
in any event ldm dose not work because opensuse has a weird implementation of sshd
16:32
<Gadi>
even with NumberOfPasswordPrompts?
16:33
<gbolte>
Gadi, I have not tried that yet I cant rebuild the image right now
16:33
I am on one of the clients
16:33
:P
16:33
<Gadi>
gotcha
16:34
do you have a shell on that client?
16:34
<gbolte>
nope...but I bet I could ssh into it
16:34
:D
16:34
<Gadi>
do you have sshd running on it?
16:35
<gbolte>
yeah
16:35
ook
16:35
here we go
16:35
<Gadi>
crazy
16:35
<gbolte>
this is a testing lab
16:35
not much security
16:35
:P
16:36
<johnny>
gadi :)
16:37
<Gadi>
gbolte: btw - I am pretty sure you can reroll the image from the client without losing your session
16:37
nbd should be exporting the inode
16:38
tho i admit, i havent tested this extensively
16:38
<gbolte>
Gadi, your hack works
16:38
:)
16:38
<Gadi>
:)
16:39* Gadi majored in hacks
16:39
<Gadi>
:)
16:40* gbolte has to report Gadi's hack back to the kiwi devzilla
16:45
<gbolte>
Gadi, http://devzilla.novell.com/kiwi-ltsp/show_bug.cgi?id=8#c3
16:45
:)
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16:48* Gadi bows - ltsp hacker at your service
16:49
<gbolte>
:)
16:50* gbolte thinks the real fix will need to come in a patch to sshutils.c
16:50
<gbolte>
but I am not a programmer and dont know where to start
16:50
lol
16:51
<Gadi>
no
16:51
<jammcq>
that excuse doesn't work around here
16:51
<Gadi>
the real fix would be to patch ldm
16:51
<jammcq>
Gadi's not a programmer either
16:51
<Gadi>
exactly
16:51
I finally got you to admit it, jammcq
16:51
:)
16:51
<jammcq>
darnit.... you got me
16:52
<Gadi>
watch ur language - this is a PG chat room
16:52
:)
16:52
<jammcq>
most of the guys around here aren't programmers
16:52
<gbolte>
Gadi, sshutils.c is part of the ldm package its the part that interacts with ssh
16:52
:)
16:52
<Gadi>
oh, right
16:52
i forget what sbalneav called it
16:52
its een a while since I hcaked that one up
16:52
*been
16:53
<jammcq>
we're gonna have to have a serious talk with sbalneav about his lack of attendence
16:53
<gbolte>
line 196 is where the problem is
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16:53
<Gadi>
gbolte: so, fix it
16:53
:)
16:53
and recompile
16:53
<vagrantc>
jammcq: hrm?
16:53
<gbolte>
well I would but I am not sure what to change it to
16:53
lol
16:54
as opensuse dosent give any message when you input a wrong password
16:54
<vagrantc>
jammcq: lack of attendence?
16:55
<Gadi>
gbolte: ldm should present a password prompt when ssh does
16:55
that simple
16:56
it shouldnt key off of please try again
16:56
:)
16:56
it should key off of assword
16:56
<gbolte>
Gadi, yeah I know
16:56
haha
16:56
assword eh?
16:56
<vagrantc>
simple way to work around case-sensitivity with the P
16:56
<gbolte>
I will submit a bug report up to the sshd guys and see if we can get them to call it assword from now on ;)
16:56
<Gadi>
its all about the assword
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16:57
<Gadi>
:)
16:57
<jammcq>
vagrantc: yeah, here in the channel. we all miss him so
16:57
well, at least I do
16:57
<Q-FUNK>
hm
16:57
<vagrantc>
jammcq: ah, indeed.
16:57
jammcq: i was worried for a second about july
16:57
<jammcq>
we'll have 4 days in portland to hammer that into him
16:57
<Q-FUNK>
warren: what was the offset that you guys ended up using with mkelfimage?
16:57
<jammcq>
he's already bought and paid for the ticket, so I assume he'll be there
16:58
<gbolte>
who is Scott Balneaves
16:58
<jammcq>
he's one of the main LTSP developers
16:58
<gbolte>
k
16:59
<jammcq>
although he's been extremely busy with his day job lately, so we don't get to see much of him
16:59
<gbolte>
yeah we need to get someone fresh on this I think
16:59
because it really needs a rework
16:59
<Q-FUNK>
where are you guys meeting +
17:00
<warren>
Q-FUNK: 16MB seems to work on most but not all kernels
17:00
<vagrantc>
Q-FUNK: portland, oregon, usa ... july 25th-28th
17:00
<warren>
Q-FUNK: it is actually an accident that hardcoded 8MB works. none of the other loaders use a hard coded value because it doens't work in all cases on all hardware.
17:00
<Q-FUNK>
ok
17:01
warren: could you paste me th eexact line you're currently using?
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17:02
<warren>
um
17:03
<gbolte>
oooh yeah thats right you guys are having a hack fest
17:03
maybe sshutils.c can gets some action?
17:03
:P
17:03
<warren>
gbolte: no, it is celibate.
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17:03
<gbolte>
damn
17:04
:P
17:04
<Gadi>
gbolte: that joke will cost you 2 drinks
17:04
there is a minimum
17:09* gbolte sees jammcq did the get_ip.c
17:09
<gbolte>
:P
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19:09
<Q-FUNK>
anybody on hardy with broken LTSP on geode willing to make a test?
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19:13
<lns>
Q-FUNK, I'd love to, maybe in a day or two - don't have all the equipment in the same place
19:14
Just upgraded my first site to Hardy though, like 30min ago.. leaving the office now, but if you need help send me an email
19:15* lns waves
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19:40
<gbolte>
hah so I finally got to see what happens in the ldm.log when I dont use the hack that Gadi provided me
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19:42
<gbolte>
http://rafb.net/p/HV3crr76.html
19:43
kinda interesting
19:43
thats what happens when ldm dosent receive any response from sshd stating that the user needs to "please try again"
19:46
<johnny>
why doen't it?
19:46
or why does ubuntu's.. either way
19:47
<gbolte>
opensuse has done something to their sshd to make it not give an error when the wrong password is entered
19:47
<johnny>
or wrong user
19:47
i assume
19:47
<gbolte>
ldm is looking for an error message "please try again." to be specific
19:48
<johnny>
guess ldm needs to be patched
19:48
<gbolte>
yeah I am just trying to figure out how to go about doing that
19:48
what should ldm look for when the wrong password is entered
19:48
:/
19:49
not all distros are the same
19:50
what needs to happen is that ldm just assumes that the user needs to put in a password whenever it sees a password prompt
19:50
and then not worry about error messages
19:50
users know they screwed up when it prompts them for a password again it dosent need to tell them that
19:50
imo
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19:54
<gbolte>
johnny, have you looked at the sshutils.c code any
19:58
<johnny>
been awhile
19:58
<gbolte>
ah
19:58
<johnny>
there must be a reason why it works the way it does..
19:59
or not :)
19:59
<gbolte>
I am not sure why it works on gentoo
19:59
because they dont use the please try again message
20:00
<johnny>
i am not sure if it works or not, i haven't tried in a bit..
20:00
i'll see what we can come up with
20:00
<gbolte>
gbolte@kioskserv02:~> ssh root@10.0.5.1
20:00
Password:
20:00
Password:
20:00
Password:
20:00
Permission denied (publickey,keyboard-interactive).
20:00
thats a gentoo box
20:00
it dose the exact behavior as opensuse
20:01
ubuntu spits out please try again errors when you screw up
20:02
<johnny>
lemme look at what patches gentoo has added
20:02
<gbolte>
alright
20:02
cool
20:06
<johnny>
nothin jumps out
20:06
you should check debian's patches
20:07
if there is such a patch, debian prolly includes it
20:07
<gbolte>
well they wouldnt need it more than likely
20:07
but I will check
20:08
<johnny>
well.. it looks like the behaviour ldm relies on, is not standard
20:08
i could be wrong..
20:08
<gbolte>
yeah
20:08
<johnny>
so debian might have a patch
20:08
i don't have time look atm, doing paid work atm
20:08
<gbolte>
checking
20:08
hehe me too
20:08
;)
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20:22
<gbolte>
I cant find anything
20:22
:/
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22:51
<new2linux>
i cant see any nicknames on this channel using ubuntu distro
22:52
and my keyboard cant click the apostophre sign
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22:55
<new2linux_>
can we use wine on thin-client for it to be able to play games such as warcraft or counter-strike?
22:55
lan games such as those require different ip and different serial key for each pc
22:56
would it be a problem to install the lan games on a centrallized system?
22:56
anybody has already experiencing to install lan games on thin client?
22:56
share plz
23:00
and, how to back up the system or restoring system? incase, any user do some changes and make the system error?
23:03
and, how to setup a router on ubuntu?
23:03
ive got 2 nic cards on the system, could linux be set up to be a router as well?
23:09
and i cant import or backup my bookmarks
23:09
i export the bookmarks from fedora and now trying to import it on ubuntu, using the same firefox
23:10
<rjune_>
new2linux_: it doesn't work well, don't do it.
23:11
3d games that is.
23:12
<new2linux_>
thatś what i think about the game
23:12
not possible right
23:12
what about 2d online game, also not possible
23:21
before updating the ubuntu, i could install xchat
23:22
after installing all the updates, cant install xchat from the add/remove programs
23:22
or failed to install xchat
23:22
now, restarting for updates, hopefully the xchat still can be open
23:22
after rebooting
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23:28
<new2linux_>
does the command to go to root on ubuntu is su - ?
23:28
password auth. failure