IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 1 November 2011   (all times are UTC)

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01:35
<jammcq>
hey friends
02:08
<MrDoh2>
ok, I'm back... I guess the simplest way to ask my question, is netbooting a requirement for running LTSP 5?
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02:46
<jammcq>
vagrantc: hey
02:49* vagrantc waves from cascadia
02:49
<jammcq>
nice trip back home?
02:50* vagrantc stayed up way too late last night trying to get epoptes to work
02:51
<vagrantc>
though, it kind of gets me back on pacific time...
02:54
well, may as well finish getting home...
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03:00
<mistik1>
jammcq: Hey Jim
03:03
<jammcq>
hey mistik1
03:03
you missed a great BTS in SW harbor
03:03
<mistik1>
jammcq: So I hear :(
03:05
<jammcq>
scotty and I just got home about 2 hours ago
03:05
had a great time, lots of driving
03:05
<mistik1>
weekender, eh?
03:06
<jammcq>
heh, more like 9 days for us
03:06
bts was just the tail end of it
03:06
<mistik1>
I've been way too busy and far away this year
03:06
cool
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03:12
<mistik1>
jammcq: So what the verdict, Ochie next year? :)
03:13
<miks>
Hyperbyte: Good advice. I think I'll go with Edubuntu 11.10 unless anyone has a reason has a good reason to hang back at 11.04. I just need to find a gconf tool that will let me lock things down. Can anyone tell me how to avoid having thin-clients boot up with Unity? I'd like to stick with the more classic gnome look if possible...
03:14
<jammcq>
mistik1: we'll be back at SW Harbor, but we've also talked about additional dev sprints in other locations
03:16
<mistik1>
nice
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04:14
<mistik1>
jammcq: Our little project is growing up bigtime :) http://www.corcyraglobal.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1320004133/0#5
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08:45
<Hyperbyte>
miks:
08:45
!classic-gnome
08:45
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: classic-gnome: To set classic-gnome as the default session instead of Unity in Ubuntu >= 11.04, put LDM_XSESSION="gnome-session --session=classic-gnome" in lts.conf
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09:43
<laurei>
tst
09:51
<Hyperbyte>
mhm
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11:21
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, hi! How's UDS? :)
11:22
<alkisg>
Hey Hyperbyte - it's fun!
11:22
Lots of interesting topics + people
11:22
They even have a band in the evenings - I should have brought my guitar
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11:56
<andygraybeal>
wazzzap?
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12:10
<cliebow_>
jammcq: if you talk to sbalneav i have his "Scotsman" story for him to review before i release it..
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12:20
<jammcq>
cliebow_: hey
12:20
I saw the email, but the link didn't work
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12:30
<alkisg>
stgraber: Good morning. :)
12:30
epoptes-client connects to "localhost" for thin client user sessions, and to "server" for all other cases. That "server" hostname can be overriden from /etc/default/epoptes-client.
12:30
Idea: I can make epoptes-client.postinst connect to that hostname, and ask the epoptes daemon for the server certificate, and store it locally in /etc/epoptes/server.crt.
12:30
That would completely automate the certificate transfer for most common cases (thin, fat, standalone clients), and since it calls a specific DNS name and only on postinst, it should be acceptable security-wise, right?
12:31
<jammcq>
alkisg: HEY !
12:31
<alkisg>
Hi Jim, how are you :)
12:31* alkisg is missing all the lobster fun already
12:33
<jammcq>
I'm great. Are you enjoying Orlando ?
12:33
<alkisg>
Yup, although I haven't seen anything outside the hotel yet
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12:38
<cliebow_>
jammcq: yeah..Gadi mentioned getting the ok feom Scottie..
12:39
<jammcq>
ah
12:39
<alkisg>
Meh it's a nice story and the one filming the video has all the copyrights anyway :P
12:39
<jammcq>
I'll talk to him when we get to my office
12:41
<cliebow_>
can i open it long enough for you to get aq copy?
12:42
<jammcq>
we're just leaving my house right now. I'll be back online when we get to my office
12:42
<cliebow_>
ok..holler and ill change perms on it
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13:18
<fellowEntx>
Good morning
13:18
<mgariepy>
good morning
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13:18
<fellowEntx>
Is there any way to specify the thin client name in the lts.conf? I'm using ltsp w/ windows dhcp; the client ends up with ltsp618, I'd like to change it
13:23
<Gadi>
fellowEntx: you can do it several different ways. One way is in lts.conf. Create a section for the thin client by MAC address and specify HOSTNAME=foo
13:24
alternatively, I believe if you make a dhcp reservation and pass the hostname by dhcp, that should work, too
13:25
also, we have an lts.conf param that creates a dynamic hostname based upon MAC address rather than IP
13:25
I believe it is HOSTNAME_MAC=True or some such, but I have to check
13:25
<fellowEntx>
Thanks Gadi, I'm currently using a reservation in dhcp as "unitXXX" but on the terminal server it shows the ltspXXX,
13:25
trying the HOSTNAME=unitxxx now
13:26
<cliebow_>
worked like a champ in 4.2..i had such wierd hardware i had to specify all sorts of stuiff that wau
13:27
<Gadi>
fellowEntx: if all you want to do is change the prefic, you can set HOSTNAME_BASE = unit in lts.conf
13:27
ah, and HOSTNAME_EXTRA=mac would adjust the dynamic part to be MAC address
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13:28
<Gadi>
!s
13:28
<ltsp>
Gadi: s: Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
13:28
<alkisg>
fellowEntx: note that if you use HOSTNAME=xxx, that doesn't mean that you'll be able to ping it, it doesn't automatically update DNS. Making the dhcp/dns combo work is usually better.
13:28
<sbalneav>
Morning all
13:28
Hello Gadi!
13:28
<alkisg>
Heya Scotty
13:28
<sbalneav>
Hey hey alkisg!
13:28
<fellowEntx>
Morning
13:28
HOSTNAME=X worked perfect, thank you again
13:29
<cliebow_>
sbalneav, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
13:29
<sbalneav>
Got a full day of hacking ahead, got the autoconf infrastructure set up last night, libnss-sshsock, here I come.
13:29
<cliebow_>
can i give you link to this m4v i made for you to look at?
13:29
<sbalneav>
cliebow_: Hey Chuck, yeah, go ahead and post the video.
13:29
<cliebow_>
coming at you
13:29
<Gadi>
I've got videos, too
13:29
:)
13:31
<sbalneav>
Post 'em if you like. I didn't say anything that I wouldn't gladly tell to a room full of people. Oh, wait, I *DID* tell them to a room full of people :)
13:31
<cliebow_>
http://169.244.3.137/scotsman.m4v
13:32* Gadi works on making the drinking song go viral
13:32
<cliebow_>
weee!!
13:33
from ther you can do as you like with it..prob a better way thaan i haqve
13:34
I ll pull out a couple more as time allows
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13:37
<cliebow_>
i think it worked pretty well for an afterthought
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13:38
<sbalneav>
Heh, other than the fact that I was hammered enough that I kept slipping into the scottish accent for the Girl as well as the stranded Scotsman, the joke went pretty well.
13:38
<cliebow_>
it rocked here..the it crowd here enjoyed it in spades
13:39
<sbalneav>
By that time in the evening, it was requring staggeringly large amounts of concentration not to slurr my words :)
13:39
<Gadi>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obozUwkK3Xw
13:39
;)
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13:40
<sbalneav>
Another winner.
13:40
Ragnar quit after only one "Drikke yay!"
13:40
There's supposed to be 3
13:41
<Gadi>
we all know you're the truer Norwegian ;)
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14:09
<cliebow>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7szJXyXJS8U
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14:33
<Gadi>
did my email to ltsp-devel make it through re: moving configure_sound_volume to udev?
14:35
anyone?
14:35
Beuller?
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14:35
<alkisg>
Gadi: I don't see it
14:36
<Gadi>
ok, I will try to resend
14:37
<alkisg>
Gadi: did you use html?
14:37
If so, it needs to be moderated, I think. (by Scotty?)
14:38
<Gadi>
I don't think I did, but I never remember which of my user accounts is the one subscribed, so I prolly sent it under the wrong one
14:38
I just resent
14:38
hopefully this one makes it
14:39
<jammcq>
there's nothing pending
14:39
in the ltsp-developer mail queue
14:39
also, we no longer reject html mail
14:40
<Gadi>
hmm...
14:40
<jammcq>
also, in the archives, there's been no messages today
14:40
<alkisg>
Gadi: are you sure you're using the correct email address?
14:40
<Gadi>
ltsp-developer@lists.sourceforge.net
14:41
right?
14:41
<alkisg>
right
14:41
Maybe an SF problem, then...
14:41
<jammcq>
in fact, we haven't seen any emails on that list since Oct 19th
14:42
Gadi: could you try one more time?
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14:44
<pscheie>
morning all
14:44
<mgariepy>
good morning pscheie
14:44
<pscheie>
hi there mgariepy
14:44
did you make it back to home okay?
14:44
<alkisg>
Good morning pscheie
14:45
<pscheie>
hi alkisg! Are you warm & sunny now?
14:45
<jammcq>
mgariepy: did you notice the slippery roads heading to Bangor?
14:45
<mgariepy>
yeah from swhb to bangor jonathan was driving
14:45
<alkisg>
pscheie: yup, Orlando is much warmer than the Maine snow :)
14:45
<mgariepy>
from bangor to sherbrooke the road was ok,
14:47
<pscheie>
alkisg, highvoltage, stgraber, how are things at UDS? Any noteworthy developments?
14:48
<Gadi>
jammcq: just resent
14:48
<alkisg>
The noteworthy development doesn't come from UDS, but from sbalneav :)
14:48
libnss :)
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14:53
<jammcq>
hmm, I'm not seeing anything getting into the ltsp-developer list
14:54
<sbalneav>
I've just got a test suite going. I'll make pushes hourly so you can see my progress...
14:54
<Gadi>
hmm...
14:55
well, for all those who are here, I want to move configure_sound_volume to udev (from the init scripts)
14:55
this will cause a change in the packaging
14:55
<sbalneav>
lp:~sbalneav/ltsp/libnss_sshsock
14:55
<Gadi>
so, I wanted to clear it with the distro pkg maintainers first
14:55
<sbalneav>
It's working, but I'm getting the wrong result code:
14:56
<jammcq>
hey, just got Gadi's message on ltsp-developer
14:56
<sbalneav>
sbalneav@eris:~/Source/libnss-sshsock/test$ ./testnsslib
14:56
getpwnam
14:56
NSS_STATUS_TRYAGAIN
14:56
pw_name -> sbalneav
14:56
pw_passwd -> x
14:56
pw_uid -> 1111
14:56
pw_gid -> 1111
14:56
pw_gecos -> Scott Balneaves,,,
14:56
pw_dir -> /home/sbalneav
14:56
pw_shell -> /bin/bash
14:56
it got that pw information over the ssh socket.
14:59
<highvoltage>
pscheie: so far so good, no big flamewars yet :) (which is really good for 12.04)
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15:05
<Gadi>
pscheie: can you pastebin the contents of /lib/udev/rules.d/60-persistent-alsa.rules on your centos box when you have a chance?
15:08* Gadi notices that the udev rule on ubuntu to set volume levels on boot runs in the background, which may actually cause a race condition if I have another rule to set volume in udev .... grrr....
15:08
<pscheie>
Gadi, my ltsp stuff is on my laptop at home, but I've got a Centos 6 system here at work, but no ltsp installed.
15:08
Will that suffice?
15:08
<Gadi>
pscheie: yeah, that's fine
15:08
<pscheie>
ok, hang on...
15:08
<alkisg>
Gadi: http://paste.ubuntu.com/725401/
15:08
(for your collection :P)
15:09
<Gadi>
:)
15:09
ah, so fedora doesn't set sound out of udev
15:10
I guess they set it in an init script
15:10
<cliebow>
mgarieoy:so you picked the guy from South Africa to do the snow driving 8~)
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15:11
<pscheie>
Gadi, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/725402/
15:11
<Gadi>
thx
15:11
<pscheie>
Strictly speaking, that's from my SL6.1 box, but it should be the same as Centos.
15:11
<alkisg>
Gadi, so the goal is to add an udev rule that will call your script as soon as the card is detected, and then your script would call amixer to set the volume AND save the state?
15:12
<Gadi>
yeah, thats fine. Is there something in /etc/init.d/*alsa* or /etc/init/*alsa* ?
15:12
<pscheie>
Gadi, no.
15:12
<Gadi>
alkisg: well, our configure_sound_volume right now only calls amixer to set things and runs out of an init script
15:13
this is distro-agnostic
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15:13
<Gadi>
but, I would like to get it out of the init script
15:13
<alkisg>
Gadi: is it? what if the distro init script overrides the volume after we set it?
15:13
<Gadi>
both to avoid race conditions, AND to eliminate a special init script
15:13
<alkisg>
(or udev script, or whatever the distro uses)
15:13
<Gadi>
right
15:14
well, that's the issue
15:14
seems ubuntu/debian set volume from udev
15:14
<alkisg>
I mean, apart from setting the sound volume, we also need to notify the distro tool, and one way to do it is to save the volume (if that's what the distro uses)
15:14
<Gadi>
but fedora/redhat may set it from init
15:14
right
15:14
so...
15:15
we could wait until the sound card is ready and then run our script and store it
15:15
<alkisg>
Right
15:15
<Gadi>
but, udev fires when the device comes up
15:15
<alkisg>
But again we need distro specific code, if the "save" mechanism is different
15:16
<Gadi>
that ANS we need to make sure we can do it at the appropriate time
15:16
*AND
15:16
<alkisg>
E.g. `find /var -name '*alsa*'` is empty on Fedora 13
15:16
<Gadi>
right
15:16
<alkisg>
So maybe they don't save the volume at all (at least until newer versions)
15:16
<Gadi>
how about ls /etc/init.d/*alsa*
15:16
<alkisg>
Empty too
15:16
<Gadi>
and /etc/init/*alsa*
15:17
<alkisg>
$ find /etc/ -name '*alsa*' 2>/dev/null
15:17
/etc/modprobe.d/dist-alsa.conf
15:17
/etc/makedev.d/01alsa
15:17
<Gadi>
not sure if that sets the volume, tho
15:17
or just makes the dev
15:17
<alkisg>
I don't think it does
15:18
So maybe f13 doesn't save/restore the system sound volume?
15:18
And only does that per user?
15:18
<Gadi>
maybe
15:18
<alkisg>
In any case I think we can ignore that, and leave it up to the distro maintainer to implement the "save volume" part
15:19
<Gadi>
well, only if our script will continue to change the sound last
15:19
if we are going to change the sound first and then store it so a later script can restore it
15:19
(which sounds funny)
15:19
then, we would have to store
15:20
<alkisg>
Hmmm we can also just delete the service that restores the volume
15:20
So we don't have to save the volume then
15:20
<Gadi>
if we ARE going to set sound last, then I think we need to override the stock udev script that sets the volume on ubuntu and replace with our own
15:20
right
15:21
in Ubuntu it is a udev script
15:21
in another distro, it may be an init script
15:21
<alkisg>
What's that? /etc/init.d/alsa-mixer-save
15:21
It's a broken symlink in my system...
15:21
<Gadi>
yeah, that stores it
15:21
and it is upstart-ified
15:21
so, /etc/init/alsa-mixer-save.conf
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15:22
<alkisg>
OK. We'll need a method to prevent services on boot anyway
15:22
So we may as well disable that by default
15:23
<Gadi>
that one is harmless
15:23
<alkisg>
(and currently we do it in Ubuntu with RC_WHITELIST)
15:23
<Gadi>
it stores on shutdown
15:23
<alkisg>
Ah, ok, let's see the udev one...
15:23
<Gadi>
what we care about is the udev rule that restores
15:23
because it also sets "sane" volume levels
15:23
so, it is setting levels and we are setting levels
15:24
not sure if stgraber will appreciate a dpkg-divert
15:24
:)
15:24
<alkisg>
You can override udev rules from /etc
15:25
$ cat /lib/udev/rules.d/80-alsa.rules
15:25
KERNEL=="controlC[0-7]", ACTION=="add", RUN+="/lib/udev/alsa-utils"
15:25
You're talking about that one, right?
15:25
<Gadi>
yeah look at that script
15:25
/lib/udev/alsa-utils
15:25
it basically sets the volumes in the background
15:26
<alkisg>
weird syntax :D
15:27
And you basically want to allow it to run, and just run your script after that, right?
15:28
<Gadi>
right - but since this one is backgrounded, I think the two scripts would race
15:28
so, we may need to replace it
15:28
<alkisg>
we can do that in the initramfs too, with various ways
15:29
Either override the whole udev rule from /etc/, or move files around
15:29
<Gadi>
ah, I see what you mean. Just drop ours in /etc/udev/rules.d/80-alsa.rules
15:30
<alkisg>
Yes, but I just thought of something else too
15:30
KERNEL=="controlC[0-7]", ACTION=="add", RUN+="/lib/udev/alsa-utils"
15:30
=> put one of ours in 88-
15:30
and instead of *adding* to RUN, to replace it with a script of ours
15:30
RUN="...ltsp/our-alsa-utils"
15:31
<Gadi>
ah!
15:31
that's a good idea
15:33
ok bbiab
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16:00
<sbalneav>
NSS_SSHSOCK_SOCKET=/tmp/lasock
16:00
NSS_SSHSOCK_HOST=205.200.162.13
16:00
sbalneav@eris:~/Source/libnss-sshsock/test$ grep sshsock /etc/nsswitch.conf
16:00
passwd: compat sshsock
16:01
sbalneav@eris:~/Source/libnss-sshsock/test$ grep scbalvpn /etc/passwd
16:01
sbalneav@eris:~/Source/libnss-sshsock/test$
16:01
sbalneav@eris:~/Source/libnss-sshsock/test$ getent passwd scbalvpn
16:01
scbalvpn:x:1001:1001:Scott Balneaves VPN,,,:/home/scbalvpn:/bin/bash
16:01
It got that passwd entry over the ssh socket.
16:01
<mgariepy>
great :D
16:02
<sbalneav>
VERY buggy, NO error testing, but...
16:02
working.
16:02
I'll debug passwd completely, then implement group.
16:02
committing and pushing.
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16:12
<cliebow>
sbalneav, you Rock!
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18:02
<Mip5>
Afternoon folks - I have a script that I'd like to run when ltsp clients logout. I have the script in their home directory, and have it set to be run from .bash_logout, but I can't seem to get .bash_logout to run when they logout. What's the best way to make this happen? LTSP server is running Lucid 10.04.3.
18:07
<Gadi>
Mip5: you want it to run on the client or the server?
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18:11
<alkisg>
vagrantc: Hi! Idea: when epoptes-client gets installed in the chroot, postinst can connect to epoptes daemon at localhost:569 and get the server certificate from there. That's acceptable, security-wise, right?
18:12
But on the other hand, on standalone clients, it's not acceptable to connect to server:569, correct?
18:12
!xexit | echo Mip5:
18:12
<ltsp>
Mip5: xexit: Instead of gnome-watchdog one can use xexit, which is a similar (but better!) tool written by an LTSP developer: http://www.opinsys.fi/en/killing-user-processes-with-xexit-on-ltsp-servers
18:14
<Mip5>
Gadi: the script deletes some prefs that client users like to mess around with. The prefs get restored when the next client logs in, which works great on stand alone desktops in our labs. I'm trying recreate this for our thin clients.
18:15
Gadi: I'll take a look at xexit.
18:16
<alkisg>
Mip5: why not do it on login for thin clients too then?
18:17
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i'm not sure about postinst making network connections ... i'll have to look into it.
18:17
alkisg: found a few undeclared dependencies...
18:18
<alkisg>
Which one(s)?
18:18
<Mip5>
alkisg: The script only needs to run once, as once the prefs are gone, they are automagically recreated when the client logs in.
18:18
<alkisg>
vagrantc: Btw, we're considering switching from vinagre to remmina, it looks more maintained + has less dependencies
18:18
<vagrantc>
alkisg: you can check my branch at: bzr get http://anonscm.debian.org/bzr/users/vagrant/epoptes/epoptes/
18:19
<alkisg>
Ty
18:19
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i'm not attached to vinagre ...
18:20
<alkisg>
Mip5: what I'm asking is, why do you need to run something on logout, instead of always running it on login
18:20* vagrantc wanders off
18:22
<matrix3000>
what would cause a specific pc to get a boot: _ after the pxe screen
18:22
<cliebow>
vagrantc: ca n you shoot me that mac netboot stuff we talked about at bts?
18:22
<Gadi>
alkisg: did Marc Andre present FreeRDP yet?
18:23
<alkisg>
Gadi: yup, we're now on the next session, he's sitting right beside me if you have any questions :D
18:23
<Mip5>
alkisg: I could easily have the script run on login; that would be fine. Does it make a difference? Would it be implemented differently?
18:23
<alkisg>
matrix3000: if you press enter on that, does it then boot?
18:24
<Gadi>
alkisg: I don't think he knows me from a fly on the wall, but you can say hi and give him a pat on the back from me
18:24
:)
18:24
<alkisg>
Done :)
18:24
Mip5: The difference it makes is that login scripts are guaranteed to be executed, while logout scripts, not
18:25
<Mip5>
alkisg: Ah! Nice - where should I put it then?
18:26
<alkisg>
Mip5: here's an example: http://www.mail-archive.com/ltsp-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net/msg39777.html
18:27
<Gadi>
that's an example in the chroot. You can also put it on the server in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/
18:27
<alkisg>
Or in pam_exec
18:27
<Gadi>
or as an autostart script
18:28
<alkisg>
Autostart is too late for applying settings, gconf etc is already running
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18:28
<Gadi>
true
18:28
<awakecoding>
Hi
18:28
I'm marc-andre from the FreeRDP project
18:29
<alkisg>
Gadi: here's your chance ;)
18:29
<cliebow>
hello!!!
18:29
<Gadi>
:)
18:29
awakecoding: welcome. a virtual pat on the back to go with the real one
18:29
:)
18:29
<alkisg>
Marc was unhappy that we people are using freerdp etc but never stopped by their mailing list to say thanks!
18:29
<awakecoding>
Lol, no worries
18:29* Gadi has said thanks. :)
18:30
<awakecoding>
I just didnt know until today that you guys were using freerdp
18:30
<Gadi>
but, not SO many LTSPers using RDP
18:30* alkisg also said thanks, especially for the keyboard layout code - I never got greek working properly in rdesktop
18:30
<Gadi>
as jammcq likes to tell me, the 'L' in LTSP is for....
18:30
;)
18:30
<awakecoding>
Not surprised, theres no good rdp server yet for linux
18:31
But id like to find more people who want to work on freerdp as a server
18:31
<alkisg>
Gadi, you'd be surprised, I know many schools in Greece which use freerdp to connect to win VMs from LTSP clients...
18:31
<awakecoding>
Which, if developed, would beat hands down other solutions
18:32
Take a look at screenshot #5 on freerdp.com
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18:32
<Gadi>
we could definitely use a better-performing remoting protocol moving forward
18:32
<cliebow>
alkisg:isnt that a licensing nightmare?
18:32
<alkisg>
cliebow: with the crisis we have real nightmares, so teachers here don't worry much about licenses :P
18:32
<awakecoding>
Haha
18:33
<alkisg>
But no, some usual TS CALs should suffice, I think
18:33
<awakecoding>
There's always the thinstuff rdp server to reduce licensing costs on the server side
18:33* cliebow cliebow googles
18:33
<awakecoding>
Alkisg: there's more to it... You need a special license of office for installation on a terminal server
18:34
<alkisg>
True, but OK we can use openoffice instead
18:34
<awakecoding>
Unless you're using the thinstuff server
18:34
True, i heard of a case where they switched to openoffice for that exact reason
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18:35
<awakecoding>
Obviously the best solution on the long term would be a good freerdp server
18:35
<alkisg>
I've been glancing at the thinstuff.com site before, but I thought they didn't offer a legitimate solution, MS-license-wise... how do they work around the licensing issues?
18:36
<awakecoding>
Or even more fucked up: a freerdp server serving individual applications on wine
18:36
<cliebow>
anyone remember fabian franz and the "Happy Packet Dance" in Montreal?
18:36
<Gadi>
A linux-based end-to-end rdp solution with multimedia acceleration and remotefx might be a neat way to improve thin client performance above X
18:36
<awakecoding>
Alkisg: don't worry, ms hates them, but cant do anything about it
18:36
<Gadi>
or NX
18:36
<alkisg>
:D
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18:38
<awakecoding>
Alkisg: i dont fully understand it, but the law does not make thinstuff illegal. It's not a crack, but added features on top of the built-in rdp server
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18:39
<awakecoding>
The thing is that ms wants you to buy certain licenses of windows to get certain features, but nothing prevents someone from adding those features in editions where they werent
18:40
<Gadi>
awakecoding: how was your talk received at UDS?
18:40
<awakecoding>
Well received
18:41
<Gadi>
excellent
18:41
<awakecoding>
People are excited i think
18:41
<Gadi>
I think freerdp is one of those projects that anyone who looks at it gets excited
18:41
:)
18:41
<alkisg>
I don't think you'll find anyone complaining about the rdesktop => freerdp move
18:41
<awakecoding>
But i think we need more than excitement, we need more developers
18:42
Looking for people actually against the move to freerdp might be hard :p
18:42
<Gadi>
well, I have been saying for years that it would be nice for LTSP to attack the remoting protocol issue
18:42
and not just rely on hacking around what is out there
18:42* vagrantc reminds vagrantc to switch to prefer freerdp in the next Debian upload
18:42
<Gadi>
maybe a freerdp server is a way to do that
18:43
<awakecoding>
Come work with us, if we have people working on the server you will control both the client and server implementations
18:43
And have a much better solution than anything else that currently exists as oss
18:43
<vagrantc>
awakecoding: does otavio salvador contribute to freerdp?
18:43
<awakecoding>
Yes, he has been there since two years ago i think
18:43
<cliebow>
vagrantc:send me that mac netboot stuff?
18:44
<awakecoding>
One of the first to join after the founders
18:44
<vagrantc>
cliebow: ah, yes. sorry. it's spread across three servers and i only half understand it
18:44
<cliebow>
that scares me..but ive had it working in powerpc
18:44
<vagrantc>
awakecoding: i thought so. he did a bunch of work with LTSP for a while
18:44
<awakecoding>
I didnt know, but it makes sense
18:45
I havent been watching ltsp at all
18:45
<alkisg>
cliebow: I've no idea if that helps you, but here's a link that someone here updated recently: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/PowerPC
18:46
<Gadi>
awakecoding: has ubuntu assigned someone to package freerdp for the distro?
18:46
is that otavio still?
18:47
<cliebow>
it could alkisg..most her is now intel..but there are still some relics
18:47
<awakecoding>
Otavio is a debian dev
18:47
There
18:47
There is someone at canonical assigned
18:49
<vagrantc>
yeah, otavio's the maintainer of the freerdp packages in debian
18:49
<cliebow>
alkisg:yeah that has the old magic vendor encapsulated options i stumbled on
18:49
<Gadi>
ah. I guess in the past, ubuntu just sync'd from debian
18:49
<alkisg>
Nice
18:52
(unrelated question) so how do I "install" a printer in a thin client, so that any student in the class can print to that? Just put PRINTER_0_DEVICE=/dev/usblp0 and I'm done?
18:53
<awakecoding>
Do you think there would be ltsp devs interested in undertaking the implementation of a good linux rdp server to be used in ltsp?
18:54
<Gadi>
alkisg: that will start jetpipe, then you need to set up the print queue on the server to point to the thin client port 9100
18:55
<alkisg>
Gadi, go on... :D
18:55* alkisg wasn't around in the lpq days
18:55
<Gadi>
alkisg: hehe
18:55
alkisg: so, jetpipe basically turns the device into a jetdirect-type printer
18:55
so, once you have that in lts.conf,
18:55
you should:
18:55
<cliebow>
awakecoding, arent too many capable of putting it together..i know i am not
18:56
<Gadi>
1. Make sure that the IP/hostname of the client is fixed
18:56
2. Create a server-side print queue pointed at: <ip>:9100
18:56
done
18:56* alkisg googles for (2)...
18:56
<Gadi>
you can do that through the gui
18:56
<alkisg>
Ah
18:56
<Gadi>
or by commandline with lpadmin
18:58
awakecoding: is Jay Sorg still working on that?
18:58* Gadi was under the impression that he was
19:00
<awakecoding>
Gadi: jay's working on xrdp, but we should base a new server-side implementation on freerdp
19:00
The new libfreerdp-core can be used both as a client and server
19:00
<alkisg>
Gadi: so I just run /usr/share/system-config-printer/system-config-printer.py and just put the IP in "Appsocket/HP JetDirect"?
19:00
<Gadi>
alkisg: I guess that's one way to do it
19:00
:)
19:01
<alkisg>
Cool, ty
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19:02
<Gadi>
awakecoding: my guess is that by the time freerdp 1.0 is nice and shiny, it may coincide with our efforts here on a new and shiny ltsp 6. With those two as solid foundations, it might make sense to turn some attention towards the protocol
19:02
but, of course that's just me talking
19:02
:)
19:03
<alkisg>
(session change...)
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19:16
<Hyperbyte>
LTSP 6!
19:16* Hyperbyte drools
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19:17
<pscheie>
What is in mind for ltsp 6?
19:17* cliebow cliebow needs to listen
19:19
<vagrantc>
total world domination, what else?
19:19
<Gadi>
naturally
19:20
<vagrantc>
cliebow: maybe drop by #freegeek and ask Epitrope about our ppc setups ... he's the one who engineered it
19:20
<pscheie>
I thought we'd already achieved that, at least in terms of "who has the coolest, most efficient implementation".
19:20* vagrantc is not so sure
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19:22
<cliebow>
very good!
19:23
<pscheie>
Well, the coolest, most efficient implementation compared to all others.
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19:28
<matrix3000>
Anyone know why i would get a Boot: _ after a pxe boot
19:28
it tells me to select a boot image
19:28
only on a few computers though
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19:33
<mgariepy>
matrix3000, are you booting from the same server?
19:34
<matrix3000>
yse
19:34
yes
19:34
<mgariepy>
you might have some configuration file in pxelinux.cfg for some clients then
19:35
<matrix3000>
it's the stock
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19:36
<mgariepy>
can you ls the content of the /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg directory ?
19:36
<matrix3000>
yea one sec
19:37
default
19:37
<alkisg>
(08:23:41 μμ) alkisg: matrix3000: if you press enter on that, does it then boot?
19:37
<matrix3000>
from scrathc?
19:37
if there is nothing entered the boot it will not boot
19:38
you are saying type in pxelinux.cfg/default
19:38
into that field?
19:38
<alkisg>
If you enter nothing, but press the enter key
19:38
No, in the client prompt
19:38
Boot: _ [Enter]
19:38
<mgariepy>
can you paste the dhcp configuiration ?
19:39
maybe you have a different filename dhcp value for some client.
19:39
<matrix3000>
yea it doesn't boot it just brings up another boot line
19:39
yea one sec
19:40
<alkisg>
And you get no messages at all between the first boot line and the second one, after you've pressed enter? Doesn't it try to load the kernel inbetween?
19:40
<matrix3000>
i do
19:40
i get a whole pxe screen
19:40
let me post the picture of the scree
19:40
screen
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19:41
<alkisg>
So you get Boot: _ [Enter]
19:41
=> a whole lot of messages *after* that
19:41
=> and again Boot: _ ?
19:42
<matrix3000>
no, just a whole lot of messages
19:42
just one second
19:42
ill post the pictuer of what i see
19:43
<fellowEntx>
*hopes he sees boobs
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19:45
<markit>
fellowEntx: I would not hold my breath ;P
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19:48
<cliebow>
fellowEntx, heh wrong channel for that
19:49
00
19:49
<fellowEntx>
sorry, too much time in /r/gonewild...
19:49
<cliebow>
this channel is rated i..
19:49
immature audiences only
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19:53
<alkisg>
Gadi: about r1946, shouldn't that be implemented as `chroot $rootmnt /usr/share/ltsp/initramfs-hook` instead?
19:54
(maybe with a more generic name, not specific to initramfs)
19:54
And then we just put distro-specific plugins for each services we want to delete, settings we want to modify, etc etc
19:55
In /usr/share/ltsp/boot-plugins/distro or something
19:55
<Gadi>
alkisg: ultimately, that code will be moved out of there again, once we implement what we talked about in Maine
19:56
with the initramfs calling a rootfs-plugin script
19:56
but, that needs to be implemented first
19:56
<alkisg>
Ah, I thought it'd be better if we put the hook first, and started moving things later
19:56
<Gadi>
well, I am anxious to get things going
19:56
:)
19:56
<alkisg>
Me too, and if you create the hook, I'll start moving stuff too :D
19:57
<Gadi>
fair enough. I just was wary about making the hook, but we should just do it
19:58
<alkisg>
The hook itself wouldn't hurt at all
19:58
Now, actually moving stuff from build-client to initramfs may, or may not, hurt
19:58
<Gadi>
well, it will hurt if stephane doesn't package it
19:58
but, we can just make sure he does
19:58
:)
19:59
otherwise, lots of stuff will break
19:59
so, shall we put it in init-bottom?
20:01
<alkisg>
init-bottom sounds good. But yeah, we'd better ask the maintainers about their packaging intentions... :)
20:01
<vagrantc>
my intentions are good
20:01
<alkisg>
:D
20:02* Gadi wants to push his configure_sound_volume changes first
20:02
<alkisg>
In any case, moving stuff inside ltsp_nbd to avoid creating the hook doesn't sound modular to me
20:02
<Gadi>
might as well break as much as possible
20:02
:)
20:02
its not modular at all
20:02
:)
20:02
<alkisg>
Hehe, Gadi++
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20:04
<Gadi>
ok, with that out of the way, I can break other stuff
20:04* Gadi is going to fear "bzr blame"
20:04
<Gadi>
:)
20:05
<cliebow>
or bzr flame
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20:06
<alkisg>
Gadi: don't forget to bind-mount /proc and whatever else the plugins will need
20:06
Before chrooting to $rootmnt
20:07
<Gadi>
yup yup
20:09
<vagrantc>
and the hackfest continues
20:09
<alkisg>
Well gadi didn't get to code then, he had a management role :D
20:10
<jammcq>
you should see Scotty. he's hacking like a crazy man all day today
20:10
<alkisg>
Time for him to make up! Btw, I think that we have the "run_parts with distro overrides" code in ltsp-build-client somewhere... go go Gadi!
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20:27
<ogra_>
Gadi, 88-ltsp-sound ?
20:27* ogra_ has a deja vu
20:27
<ogra_>
:)
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20:28
<Gadi>
so, I don't know that every distro needs to ship every other distros' plugins, so I don't think we need a distro directory
20:28
because then we have to check distro at boot time, too
20:28
easier for each distro to just adjust the initramfs-scripts.d/ dir as needed or make the scripts distro-agnostic
20:31
<alkisg>
And in the source tree? Use distro/ dirs and symlinks?
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20:33
<Gadi>
ogra_: yeah, sound familiar?
20:34
<ogra_>
i try to remember when we removed it ...
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20:34
<ogra_>
i know for sue i once added that file
20:34
*sure
20:36
<alkisg>
Gadi, you're right, it doesn't make sense to have distro specific initramfs-scripts.d plugins in the ltsp-client package... a simple dir + run_parts should suffice
20:36
<Gadi>
alkisg: I wish I knew more how other distros beyond debian/ubuntu would use it or differ
20:37
for now, I see mainly distro-agnostic scripts
20:38
<alkisg>
I don't think that messing with services + settings will be distro-agnostic...
20:38
<Gadi>
and/or distros that won't use it at all
20:39Parker955_Away is now known as Parker955
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20:41
<alkisg>
Gadi, so in the source, we'd create e.g. client/initramfs-scripts.d/Debian/00-prepare-nfs-bind-mounts, and make a symlink for it in Ubuntu/00-prepare-nfs-bind-mounts?
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20:45
<Gadi>
alkisg: let me know what you think of that (just pushed)
20:46
hmm...
20:46
<alkisg>
(Launchpad is processing new changes to this branch which will be available in a few minutes. Reload to see the changes. )
20:46
<Gadi>
I guess that would be better
20:47
I didn't have the distro dirs in the source tree, but I should
20:48
let me change a few things
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20:51
<Gadi>
does "lsb_release -is" work on all distros?
20:51* Gadi feels this getting messy
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20:52
<alkisg>
Why do you need to check the distro?
20:52
<vagrantc>
lsb_release --id --short works pretty well, but --codename is really unreliable in my experience
20:53
<pscheie>
Is lsb_release a command?
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20:54
<Gadi>
alkisg: I am just worried that we rely on the packagers putting the right things in the right places. I mean, suppose someone compiles from source
20:54
<vagrantc>
pscheie: should be, in order to be an LSB compliant distro ...
20:54
<Gadi>
vagrantc: any thoughts?
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20:55
<vagrantc>
Gadi: there's no way to "compile from source" for this part of the LTSP distro ... since it's so distro specific
20:55
<pscheie>
No lsb_release command on my SL6 box
20:55
<vagrantc>
pscheie: are there LSB packages you can install?
20:56
<alkisg>
Gadi, 00-upstart => maybe put it to 50-upstart, so that e.g. 10-nfs-bind-mounts can make the file system writeable before the deletions
20:56
<Gadi>
ok
20:56
yeah, and we need a 00-getltsconffile
20:57
<pscheie>
vagrantc, yes, looks like there is a redhat-lsb package.
20:57
<vagrantc>
Gadi: i like common, and distro-specific dirs ... but since it's an initramfs, you could specify the distro at initramfs build time
20:57
<alkisg>
Gadi: doesn't ltsp_config do that?
20:57
<pscheie>
not installed by default, however.
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20:57
<vagrantc>
Gadi: to save from having to have lsb_release working
20:58
<Gadi>
so, should I have an /etc/ltsp/initramfs.conf where we put DISTRO=Ubuntu
20:58
or some such?
20:58
and source it
20:58
alkisg: ltsp_config *reads* lts.conf, but we need something that *fetches* lts.conf over tftp
20:59
alkisg: that way, we can use the stock nbd initramfs stuff
20:59
or use other methods
20:59
<alkisg>
Gadi: then remove . /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp_config from client/initramfs-scripts, as lts.conf isn't yet fetched?
20:59
<Gadi>
my thinking is that ltsp_nbd will go away, right?
20:59
alkisg: true
20:59
<alkisg>
Not all of it
20:59
<Gadi>
why not?
20:59* vagrantc still isn't convinced mount --move will work reliably
21:00
<Gadi>
vagrantc: we currently use mount -move for cow
21:00
in ltsp_nbd
21:00
<alkisg>
Gadi, ltsp_nbd is the "main" procedure that sources nfs-top etc
21:00
<vagrantc>
Gadi: hmm.
21:00
<alkisg>
If we remove that, we'd need to use the nbd initramfs script to mount nbd
21:00
And that doesn't handle all the udhcpc etc stuff we do now
21:00
<vagrantc>
maybe i'm thinking older versions, and now everything should work again
21:01
<Gadi>
alkisg: ok, so we just like how we mount nbd better than how upstream does
21:01* vagrantc goes back to work...
21:01
<Gadi>
still, the non-mounting features should be indep of how the rootfs is mounted
21:02
<alkisg>
Right, until we can send some patches to the nbd package
21:02
Yup
21:02
So ltsp_nbd might not go away soon, but it can certainly get smaller
21:02
bbiab, changing sessions..
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21:13
<Mip5>
Gadi: if you're still around, would xexit solution work to run a script that just deleted a few gnome prefs (.gnome2, .gconf, and .gconfd)?
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21:17
<Gadi>
just pushed some changes
21:17
Mip5: xexit can run any scripts when the X connection dies
21:18
bbiab
21:19
<Mip5>
I'm not sure exactly how I'd modify it for my purposes based on the example you linked. If my accounts were enumerated names, eg. ltsp1, ltsp2.. ltsp25, and I wanted to delete a file called: junk.txt, what would it look like?
21:20
<Gadi>
Mip5: xexit runs on the server and I believe runs as the user
21:20
Mip5: so, it should be able to rm $HOME/junk.txt
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21:22
<Mip5>
thanks - I'm still not sure how I'd adjust the script that was linked to here: http://www.mail-archive.com/ltsp-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net/msg39777.html - I'm not sure how to modify it for my command.
21:23
how would I edit $LDM_USERNAME? Just change the guest* to ltsp* (since all of my accounts start with that)?
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21:30
<alkisg>
So... can't `make install` handle $DISTRO instead of having the initramfs worry about $DISTRO?
21:31
And packages copy just copy common/* and e.g. Ubuntu/* to the initramfs-scripts.d dir
21:34
In any case that was a good start though! I'll move the network manager stuff there too
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21:39
<Mip5>
alkisg: should I install xexit into chroot environment if I want scripts to be run when thin clients logout? In general, I'm not sure how to adapt this app to my scenario
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21:42
<sbalneav>
Mip5: xexit's usually installed on the server.
21:42
unless you're running fatclients or the like.
21:43
\o/ libnss-sshsock's coming along QUITE nicely.
21:43
pushing the next version...
21:43
<Mip5>
sbalneav: thanks. Well, I *am* running some fat clients for things like firefox and openoffice
21:43
<stgraber>
sbalneav: libpam-sshauth is now in Ubuntu btw
21:44
<kusznir>
Ok, more on my video-on-thin client issues: I've managed to identify the next big problem (which also confirms a suspicion I had that would delay deployment of the new server): My hardware has Intel 945GM chipsets in them, but X is using VESA driver even though the Intel driver is installed.
21:44
I'm not sure if this is a purely Ubuntu problem, or if its LTSP-related. On 9.10, it just used the intel driver.
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21:46
<sbalneav>
stgraber: Whoot
21:46
<kusznir>
The master is in!
21:48
<Mip5>
sbalneav: the actual script I'd like to run is a short script, and only deletes a few gnome pref files (panel settings and desktop changes). In this case would installing this on the server only be fine?
21:53
<sbalneav>
If you're running gnome on the server and just running some localapps, that should be fine.
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22:00
<matrix3000>
alksig: sorry, had some work issues come up had to leave my desk
22:01
alkisg: sorry had some work issues come up had to leave my desk for a few
22:01
i have the pic just have to upload it
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22:04
<kusznir>
So how would I "force" ltsp to make X use a specific graphics driver that's already installed?
22:04
(I've got intel 945GM graphics, and ubuntu/ltsp 11.04 insists on using vesa)
22:05
(and the intel driver/module is installed)
22:07
<alkisg>
matrix3000: ok, you can use imagebin.org for that
22:12
<kusznir>
Actually, I think I may have realized part of why I'm having my problem. In order to get ltsp to boot (last week's problem), I had to add acpi=off, nolapic. the problem was occuring at the point the console font was set. Once I set those boot options, I was able to boot, but perhaps that's now preventing the auto-detection of the proper video card?
22:13
Anyway, I suspect this is more of an OS and less of an LTSP problem. So far I haven't had any luck over on #ubuntu.
22:13
<Mip5>
alkisg: I installed xexit on the server (not thin clients), and put my script in /etc/Xexit.d/ but it's not working (gnome prefs aren't getting deleted). Any ideas? The script is executable.
22:14
alkisg: I log in as a student, make some changes to the desktop or panels, logout, and then log back in. My changes are still there - but I hoped that my settings would return to default.
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22:14
<alkisg>
Mip5: I haven't used xexit, I don't know how it's used. You can also use pam_exec or xsession.d or autoexec
22:15
None of those are ltsp-specific; you're just looking for a method to run things on login
22:20
<matrix3000>
http://ubuntuone.com/3yNKS46UJYgdeCrib6fLGW
22:20
thats teh ppicture
22:21
<Mip5>
alkisg: So, if I wanted to run a script that deleted some gnome prefs, I could put that script into the xsession.d/ and then it would run as the user so for example, rm -rf $HOME/.gnome2 work would for each user whenever they logged in?
22:22
<matrix3000>
alkisg: http://ubuntuone.com/3yNKS46UJYgdeCrib6fLGW
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22:30
<Mip5>
okay - thanks gang, I'll have to hit it again tomorrow. G'night!
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22:57
<matrix3000>
anyone here upgrade an LTSP server yet from 11.04 to 11.10
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23:57
<kusznir>
Got it working (dual-head and all). Turns out that acpi=off was preventing the intel driver from loading, which was preventing the dual-head. It also turns out that acpi=off wasn't required, but nolapic was required, and that option does not interfere with the video driver stuff.