IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 11 June 2009   (all times are UTC)

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08:29
<erieslabnx>
good morning everyone :)
08:30
I am trying to diagnose some connection issues, does anyone know of a way to see all connections/ip addresses assigned and connected to my switch?
08:31
would that be a dhcp monitor of some sort?
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08:39
<sbalneav>
Morning all
08:41
<erieslabnx>
My staff uses tablet PC's and Laptops, My client's are all wired, but the staff needs mobility. Can I plug a wifi router into my switch?
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08:42
<erieslabnx>
Would I need to set the router to simply act as a access point?
08:42
<jammcq>
good morning friends
08:42
<erieslabnx>
morning jammcq :)
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08:46
<erieslabnx>
alkisg I got the background fixed :)
08:46
<alkisg>
nice :)
08:46
<erieslabnx>
It was the permission settings, the file was not marked as read only
08:46
there were no rights at all :)
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08:59
<cyberorg>
jammcq, hi, check out our live LTSP distro http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Live/Screenshots#openSUSE_thin_theme
08:59
something you can show off at brazil conference?
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09:00
<cyberorg>
jammcq, there is usb stick version too
09:00
<jammcq>
cyberorg: wow, that's pretty cool
09:00
I'll definately talk about it. I dunno if I'll have a chance to actually run it
09:01
<cyberorg>
cool, li-f-e and kiwi-ltsp are two distros with ltsp preconfigured to run directly from live sessions
09:02
<ogra>
the app selection looks pretty overloaded
09:03
otherwise lokks sweet :)
09:03
*looks even
09:03
<jammcq>
ogra: too many apps?
09:03
<cyberorg>
ogra, heh had to please all students :)
09:03
<erieslabnx>
ogra did you work on an open source cms/web framework system?
09:03
<ogra>
jammcq, way to much duplication
09:03
<cyberorg>
ogra, ltsp one does not have that many
09:03
it does not even have open office
09:03
<ogra>
erieslabnx, not to my knowledge :)
09:04
<erieslabnx>
ok the name looked familiar, I am probably not good with my memory though
09:05
If set my router up to act only as an access point, plug it into the switch, will the switch handle all the DHCP things?
09:06
<jammcq>
switches don't do "dhcp things"
09:07
they just pass packets from one port to another
09:07
you'll need a dhcp server on your network
09:08
<erieslabnx>
sorry I will be more clear, the ubuntu system running ltsp currently handles all dhcp on the wired network through the switch... I wanna add wifi to the switch for use with a laptop
09:08
so would I set the router to act as an access point without the dhcp or would it not work?
09:08
<jammcq>
ok, then your linux box should be able to hand out dhcp leases to your wireless nodes
09:08
that's how I do it
09:09
<erieslabnx>
ok
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09:16
<erieslabnx>
how do I view the current dhcp leases?
09:17
sorry habit of asking before searching
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09:43
<tarzeau>
i've got an ldm greeter, when i run ldm vt1 :7 as root
09:43
and when i enter my login information it just says verifying stuff and nothing
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11:12
<erieslabnx>
will most any KVM switch work with Linux?
11:13
I don't wanna use my server for my security system's DVR, but love my new monitor.
11:13
can't afford to go buy another display for a few more weeks.
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12:14
<lal00>
what is the "proper way" to shutdown the client? I'm running fluxbox so I want to add the proper command to the menu so that the client can exit and power off their terminal gracefully
12:14
<ogra>
the simple answer is: do it from LDM
12:15
<lal00>
ogra: I have auto-login enabled
12:15
<ogra>
the less simple one is: make a localapp launcher that calls "poweroff -fp"
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12:16
<lal00>
let me try that one :)
12:16
<ogra>
(probably rather a script that also properly kills your desktop session first before calling the localapp)
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12:28
<johnny>
or.. just power off your client :)
12:28
hehe
12:28
that's what i do..
12:28
of course.. mine stay on all day
12:28
and a cron script cleans up at night
12:29
<erieslabnx>
I have a really basic question on switches.... I have a 16 port switch at the server. I don't wanna run 12 different lines to all the offices. Can I run one line to each office and then just use a 5 port switch in each office and a bunch of patch cables to the switches?
12:29
Or can you have only one switch on the network?
12:30
<johnny>
uhmm.. that's a basic networking question :)
12:30
but sure.. you can have multiple switches
12:30
<erieslabnx>
very simple I know
12:30
google couldn't give me a straight answer, thanks johnny
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12:49
<Lumiere>
erieslabnx: that is a standard networking design
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12:52
<erieslabnx>
I am very new to everything outside of MS Office
12:53
I was only worried that too many switches would confuse the server
12:54
I honestly wanted to do it with the 4 Belkin routers I have, but they don't seem to get an internet connection from the server switch.
12:54
It's like they are still trying to be the router lol
12:56
<johnny>
well usually you have to configure them not to be switches
12:56
err not to be routers
12:56
like turning off the dhcp
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13:07
<coordinador>
hi all
13:07
im desperate :S
13:07
i cannot do login
13:08
only with gnome fail proff
13:08
when i try to do normal login i only get back to login screen
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13:08
<coordinador>
*failproff = failsafe
13:09
help please
13:17
<sbalneav>
coordinador: Can you log in normally on the console?
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13:24
<coordinador_>
please help about this
13:29
<sbalneav>
coordinador: Can you log in normally on the console?
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13:30
<sbalneav>
coordinador_: Hello?
13:31
<coordinador_>
i cannot login
13:31
even local
13:31
locally i got "out of range" in screen
13:31
in terminal i got login screen again
13:31
it happened suddenly
13:32
even if i try to login from tty locally on server, i got the same "out of range" message
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13:32
<sbalneav>
ok, so the problem has nothing to do with ltsp
13:32
<coordinador_>
hum i see, ok thanks
13:32
<sbalneav>
What changed?
13:32
Did you add another user?
13:33
what happend just before it stopped working?
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13:36
<sbalneav>
coordinador_: Hello?
13:36
If you'd like help, you need to answer my questions :)
13:37
<coordinador_>
i didnt nothing related to video
13:37
i just wanted to configure sound in ltsp
13:38
i can only login remotely with gnome failsafe mode
13:38
its pretty weird, since as i said, i cannot login locally in server
13:38
<sbalneav>
ok, if you can't login locally, you've got another problem.
13:39
How do your users authenticate? Do you just have local password files?
13:39
<jammcq>
Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
13:39
<sbalneav>
Or do you use something like ldap
13:39
Hey jammcq
13:39
<coordinador_>
yes, users authenticate
13:39
its a common ltsp system
13:40
no tweaks
13:40
ill try to reboot server :S
13:40
if cannot login ill try to log with livecd and edit files
13:40
i wish rebooting works ....
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14:19
<coordinador>
hey
14:19
it was a problem from ltsp
14:19
i solved it
14:19
in the ltsp site, there is a script named ltsp-sound.sh
14:21
this script modifies /etc/profile file
14:21
<sbalneav>
What version of ltsp are you running?
14:21
<coordinador>
adding two lines at the end: umask 022 and . /etc/ltsp-sound.sh
14:21
4.2
14:22
<sbalneav>
Ah, old.
14:22
<coordinador>
well, those lines didn't allow to log into machine
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14:23
<coordinador>
i use 4.2 because my terminals are old ebox
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14:23
<coordinador>
4.2 runs ok with ubuntu 9.04 btw
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14:23
<ogra>
but if it breaks you have to keep the pieces on your own
14:25
<coordinador>
unfortunately my boxes are old so i haven't a choice since with ltsp5 the boxes runs very slow
14:25
well, thanks for the help
14:25* alkisg has a 300Mhz/64Ram box which runs fine with ltsp 5
14:26
<coordinador>
videocard?
14:26
<alkisg>
S3 virge 4mb
14:26
<ogra>
alkisg, wont help for the ebox
14:26
its a weird piece of HW
14:26
<alkisg>
OK, I didn't see the hw specs :)
14:27
<ogra>
all SiS single chip solution
14:27
its the e1000 on disklessworkstations.com
14:27
<coordinador>
my ebox II has Processor -- 200 MHz Vortex86 system-on-chip
14:27
<ogra>
yeah
14:28
http://www.disklessworkstations.com/cgi-bin/prod/200110.html?id=pRtfgc8b
14:28
<rjune_wrk>
what's new ogra?
14:28
<coordinador>
alkisg, are you sure your boxes runs fine with ltsp5? since we have to upgrade all boxes
14:28
<alkisg>
Yeah, mine runs just fine
14:28
<coordinador>
can you watch youtube vids?
14:29
<alkisg>
CPU limits the max bandwidth to 120 mbps
14:29
So I can watch full screen dvd but that's the best it can do
14:29
<ogra>
with proper CPU and GPU boxes should even run fine on 64M
14:29
<coordinador>
alkisg do you chat everyday here?
14:30
<sbalneav>
There's something odd with 2.6 kernels and the e100
14:30
<ogra>
the prob with the ebox is the HW design
14:30
<alkisg>
Mostly... but my hardware isn't specialized, just 10 y.o. PCs
14:30
<sbalneav>
it's way, WAY slower that what it should theoretically be.
14:30
<coordinador>
hum ok
14:30
<ogra>
yeah
14:30
<sbalneav>
I suspect that there's a driver problem somewhere.
14:30
<ogra>
but its identical on all distros it has been tested on
14:30
<sbalneav>
Right.
14:31
That's why I say, it's something inherent to the 2.6 kernel.
14:31
<coordinador>
well i think ill be back here tomrrow to choose new boxes
14:31
<ogra>
or the way the distros build the kernel
14:31
<sbalneav>
yeah, or that.
14:31
<ogra>
might be for example that the HW is only 486 compatible
14:31
none of todays distros build -m486
14:31
<coordinador>
see you, thanks for all the help and info btw
14:31
<sbalneav>
The SiS northbridge driver has a big, BIG change in 2.6.10
14:31
<coordinador>
and patience, since my main language isn't english
14:32
<sbalneav>
old ltsp 4.2 used, like, linux 2.6.8
14:32
<ogra>
coordinador, youre welcome :)
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14:34
<coordinador>
bye
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14:48
<otavio>
ogra: iirc Debian does
14:49
ogra: afaik it uses 486 compatible code
14:49
<ogra>
i thought with lenny that switched to -M586
14:50
<otavio>
ogra: no, we were using 386 code; now we use 486
14:51
<ogra>
ah, k
14:51
<otavio>
ogra: that is what I recall of the change
14:51
ogra: and there were some discussion lately to drop 486 for squeeze but it was denied
14:51
<ogra>
ubuntu switched to 586 :(
14:51
with karmic
14:52
<otavio>
ogra: dunno of the performance boost tradeof is nice enough
14:52
ogra: i'd much more keep it compatible
14:53
<alkisg>
486 PCs usually have 16Mb RAM or less... does a recent kernel even boot there?
14:53
<ogra>
well, it was discussed for several hours at UDS .... the toolchain and kernel teams found it worth ... i personally would have kept compatibility too
14:53
alkisg, its only about the instruction sets
14:53
<alkisg>
OK, but if 486 won't boot, why keep it compatible?
14:54
<ogra>
there are via chips that need 486 in the kernel despite largely being 586 for example
14:54
<otavio>
alkisg: there're new machines that still uses 486 inst. sec
14:54
alkisg: and vortex new cpus too
14:54
<alkisg>
Really? I thought that 586 instruction sets was supported, like, back in 1996...
14:54
<otavio>
alkisg: those are new but need 486 i.set
14:55
<alkisg>
OK, thanks for the clarification
14:55
<otavio>
alkisg: basically .. you can run Debian on those but not Ubuntu! yey! :P
14:55
ogra: :P
14:55
heh
14:56
<ogra>
yeah
14:56
<alkisg>
Heh :D I don't see a big difference between them
14:56
<ogra>
well, in case of the ebox the difference doesnt help
14:56
debian as well as ubuntu take minutes to boot
14:57
<otavio>
ogra: yes, that needs to be worked on
14:57
<ogra>
upstream
14:57
its a kernel.org prob
14:57
<otavio>
ogra: ?
14:57
<ogra>
its like that on fedora too
14:57
<otavio>
ogra: why?
14:57
it is not only kernel
14:57
<ogra>
well, feel free to solve it, but its a general prob with newer 2.6 kernels
14:57
as sbalneav said above
14:58
<otavio>
but for a small system like those, the system looks bloaded no?
14:58* otavio goes to read it
14:58
<sbalneav>
It litereally spends 3-4 minutes in JUST the kernel and udev
14:58
<ogra>
yeah
14:58
<sbalneav>
after it gets out of that phase, it's fast.
14:58
<ogra>
yup
14:58
i use my ebox as my main router
14:58
<sbalneav>
There's definitely some kind of problem on that box with device enumeration.
14:58
<ogra>
it even locally takes 3min for booting
14:58
<alkisg>
So... will the 10- sec boot in Karmic+1 also have a good impact in LTSP clients?
14:58
<ogra>
from CF
14:59
alkisg, depends :) if mount --union comes it will
14:59
<sbalneav>
When I researched it, there was some big transistion in the SiS northbridge driver right around the 2.6.10 kernel, IIRC/
14:59
<ogra>
currently we have fallen back to unionfs-fuse ... which is slow as hell
14:59
<alkisg>
Kernel switching is the bottleneck in unionfs-fuse?
14:59
<johnny>
yeah.. finally union mounts are coming..
15:00
<otavio>
ogra: any reason to not use aufs?
15:00
ogra: it works like a charm here
15:00
<ogra>
otavio, its gone
15:00
<otavio>
ogra: no, it is not
15:00
<ogra>
doesnt apply to the kernel code anymore with .30
15:00
<otavio>
ogra: theŕe aufs2
15:00
ogra: i have it in 29 .. and I think people is keeping it up to date with kernel. Hold a sec
15:00
<ogra>
well, it wont be in ubuntu
15:01
we're going more and more with plain upstream
15:01
<johnny>
and neither aufs or unionfs will ever make it upstream
15:01
al viro won't let it
15:01
<ogra>
which means no aufs/unionfs ... but upstream works on mount --union which will happen in .31 (which is the default karmic kernel)
15:01
<otavio>
ogra: http://git.c3sl.ufpr.br/gitweb?p=aufs/aufs2-2.6.git;a=summary
15:02
<johnny>
otavio, doesn't matter..
15:02
changes go from linux -> aufs
15:02
but they will ever go aufs -> linux
15:02
<ogra>
otavio, our kernel team refuses to add it
15:02
<johnny>
al viro and other vfs wonks won't let it
15:03
<otavio>
well and i mostly agree with it not being merged indeed
15:03
<johnny>
al viro has been on the side of union mounts for quite some years
15:03
<otavio>
but anyway, until mount --union it could be used as an alternative solution
15:03
<johnny>
otavio, except nobody will take it :)
15:03
<ogra>
mount --union will happen within the next weeks
15:05
<otavio>
it will be interesting to see how --union goes
15:05
<ogra>
ubuntu will give it a big user/tester base ... so it should go fine
15:05
we're switching all union mounting things over to it
15:06
(and union mounts are used a lot all across the distro in various toopls)
15:07
staring with the default upgrade tool ... over livecds, vm builds, ltsp etc etc
15:14
<sbalneav>
Has nbd swap finally been made stable? iirc, it "worked" but caused stability problems.
15:16
<ogra>
i think alkisg uses it a lot
15:16
<alkisg>
Ah, I'm not sure if it's actually used or not (64 mb ram)
15:16
But I didn't have any problems (other than with a broken nic driver)
15:17
I do have NBD_SWAP=true
15:19
<Gadi_CA>
anybody know if gnome can be told to mount a cifs share on login?
15:19
without pam_* but with gvfs
15:19
<sbalneav>
Add a bookmark in Naughtylus?
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15:20
<Gadi_CA>
anything that doesnt need clicking?
15:20
:)
15:20
<stgraber>
Gadi_CA: generate .gtk_bookmarks
15:20
that's what adds a bookmark in nautilus
15:20
<ogra>
add a microphone ... and make your uses use a shouted command ;)
15:20
(that executes a click)
15:21
<alkisg>
ogra, I was thinking about that, would it be possible to let students login by pronouncing their names into a mic? :D
15:21
<Gadi_CA>
well, I am trying really to find the easiest way to mount a cifs share on top of Documents
15:21* alkisg ducks
15:21
<Gadi_CA>
its a royal pain
15:22
<ogra>
alkisg, definately :)
15:22
<Gadi_CA>
and the tools keep changing
15:22
:P
15:22
<ogra>
Gadi_CA, gvfs-mount ?
15:22
<Gadi_CA>
hmm...
15:24
<johnny>
can't you put it in your autostart folder?
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15:25
<Gadi_CA>
may not handle the unmount
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15:25
<johnny>
you could cron it :)
15:25
hehe
15:25
<ogra>
your logout should do that if you use gvfs
15:25
<johnny>
ahh truly
15:25
<ogra>
it automatically unmounts if the gvfsd dies
15:26
<Gadi_CA>
so gvfs-mount in the autostart folder... I suppose its worth a try
15:27
<ogra>
for a bookmark you put into .gtk_bookmarks before ;)
15:27
<johnny>
hmm? why bookmarks?
15:27
<ogra>
and while youre at it, gvfs supports ssh :) throw away cifs
15:28
<johnny>
ogra, i notice a speed difference when doing it over plain sshfs vs gvfs
15:28
<ogra>
hmm, yeah, that might be
15:28
<johnny>
plain sshfs is faster.. except when you go to a page with movies or pics
15:28
<ogra>
you add one layer indeed
15:28
<johnny>
err lol.. not page
15:28
a folder
15:28
<ogra>
does it depend on the content ?
15:28
<johnny>
since gvfs respects nautilus remote settings options
15:28
<ogra>
(of the movies)
15:28
probably ssh has taste :)
15:28
<johnny>
but nautilus on sshfs mount does not
15:29
thinks it is a local folder indeed
15:29
ogra, hehe
15:29
<Gadi_CA>
no can do - this is part of AD integration :P
15:29
<johnny>
Gadi_CA, huh?
15:29
no can do what where who?
15:29
oh ssh..
15:29
that's why you need sshfs
15:29
err cifs
15:30
<Gadi_CA>
right
15:31
ooh
15:31
this is interesting
15:31* Gadi_CA finds so many quirks when doing these kinds of things
15:32
<Gadi_CA>
evidently, the "backslash" between domain and user in an AD username login with likewise causes several issues
15:32
<johnny>
Gadi_CA, i think you're the quirk
15:32
<Gadi_CA>
all over the place
15:32
:)
15:32
<johnny>
"with likewise" ?
15:32
<Gadi_CA>
likewise-open
15:33
<johnny>
wtf is likewise-open
15:33
<Gadi_CA>
used to join an AD domain
15:33
<johnny>
ah
15:33
joining is dumb
15:33
don't do it
15:33
<Gadi_CA>
apt-cache show likewise-open
15:33
;)
15:33
<johnny>
stop conforming :)
15:37
ok.. so the MS won't ship a windows 7 with ie8 in EU
15:37
i don't like many monopolistic tactics of MS.. but even i don't think that is very fair
15:38
you'd think talking to the OEMs would work in a cleaner way
15:38
sorry.. not fair.. but just..
15:39
sometimes google news doesn't make sense..
15:39
2 different stories next to each other had contradictory information
15:40
not opinion pieces of course.. as that would be a normal thing
15:40
but actual news pieces..
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16:10
<nicros>
i hope MS never ships Windows 7
16:11
<Lumiere>
why?
16:13
<johnny>
looks like it is already close to being shipped
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16:25
<Lns>
Gadi_CA: =p nice nick!
16:26
nicros: why?
16:30
<nicros>
because it's just another Vista
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16:36
<Gadi_CA>
anybody here have forcedeth drivers and problems with jaunty?
16:36* Gadi_CA is fine for a while and then has the internet cut out from under him
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17:00
<Lns>
nicros: then don't use it ;)
17:01
<nicros>
never have
17:02
<nubae>
actually windows 7 reacts pretty nicely
17:02
It felt very much like kde 4 actually
17:02
and reacts at least 3 or 4 times faster than Vista with the same hardware
17:02
but visually, it is similar to Vista, though going in the direction of KDE...
17:03
Lns: u wanted to do some video screen casts on how to use edu apps right?
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17:05
<nubae>
I mention it because I found some pretty nice ones for inkscape here: http://screencasters.heathenx.org/
17:06
<Lns>
nubae: You obviously aren't aware of the windows "honeymoon period" are you :) Use it for a good couple of months and see how your performance is after that
17:06
it's been the same since '95...nice and snappy at first install, and progressively slower the more you use it
17:06vagrantc has joined #ltsp
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17:08
<Lns>
nubae: yeah, edu apps, ltsp stuff, etc.
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17:11
<Lns>
nubae: wow, nice looking tutorials on inkscape
17:11
i could use those ;)
17:13
<nubae>
I'm putting together a Moodle portal for opensuse Edu.... I have a whole stack of inkscape tutorials... there seems to be no shortage of material for that program. I'm having more difficulty finding good stuff on Open Office, though I have found some screen casts
17:14
For real beginngers, this is quite good: http://www.tutorialsforopenoffice.org/category_index/wordprocessing.html
17:15
written for aliens...
17:15
Anyway, if u know of links to tutorials, articles, support or screen casts for any edu programs, let me know
17:18
<Lns>
nubae: will do!
17:22
<nubae>
cool, found some scribus screencasts... http://showmedo.com/videotutorials/series?name=NfUrduNov
17:23
actually that site has loads of screen casts for open source educational programs... worth looking at
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20:07
<pmatulis>
where can i get the code to the bots in this channel?
20:09
<try2free>
you mean this http://pastebot.ltsp.org/ ?
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20:16
<pmatulis>
yeah, but there is also ltspbot
20:17
<try2free>
pmatulis: do you know about using shorewall and squid?
20:17
<pmatulis>
try2free: no
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20:25
<jammcq>
hey friends
20:33
<try2free>
hi
21:02
<sbalneav>
Evening all
21:06
<pmatulis>
goodnight
21:07
sbalneav: coming or going?
21:08
<jammcq>
Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
21:23
<try2free>
hi sbalneav
21:24
can you help me to setting shorewall and squid?
21:24
good morning here...
21:25
<sbalneav>
Squid I could help you with, shorewall I don't use.
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21:58
<try2free>
sbalneav: how to setting for use in lstp with transparent proxy?
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22:07
<sbalneav>
try2free: http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-setup-transparent-proxy-squid-howto.html
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22:46
<try2free>
sbalneav: thanks you very helpfull
22:46
<sbalneav>
I try :)
22:54try2free has left #ltsp
23:08* vagrantc thinks sbalneav usually does much more than simply try
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23:16
<sbalneav>
Sometimes, I try hard.
23:21
<alkisg>
...you're doing really good, keep trying :P :D Morning, all
23:23
<sbalneav>
Καλημέρα
23:24
<alkisg>
Wow!!! :D Καλημέρα!
23:25
<sbalneav>
Not sure whether that's a greeting, a curcuit diagram, or a calculus equation :)
23:26
If I had to be a greek philosopher, I think I'd be a stoic.
23:27
<alkisg>
You'd fit the role just fine!
23:29
<sbalneav>
"For a man to conquer himself is the first and noblest of all victories." --Plato
23:29japerry has quit IRC
23:29* sbalneav changes channel topic to "Greek Philosophers"
23:32
<sbalneav>
I'm still fighting the battle.
23:32
I suspect it will be a pyrrhic victory :)
23:33
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory
23:33
<alkisg>
Is there anything about ancient Greece in your usual education, or did you study by your own?
23:34* alkisg lives in Epirus, homeland of Pyrrhus...
23:34
<sbalneav>
I took a whole course on Greek history in grade 10
23:35
And one one Roman history and Latin in grade 8
23:35
We got edumacation here in Canada :)
23:35
<alkisg>
What age is that? E.g. grade 10?
23:35
<sbalneav>
For me? A long long time ago :)
23:35
hummm
23:35
<alkisg>
Heh...
23:35
<jammcq>
about 16
23:35
err
23:35
eyah
23:35
<sbalneav>
15-16 yeah
23:35
<jammcq>
15-16
23:36
<sbalneav>
I knew about Thermopolye before it became "cool"
23:36
I've got the ORIGINAL 300 spartans movie :)
23:36
<jammcq>
it was cool?
23:36
<sbalneav>
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055719/
23:37
Greeks were hardcore.
23:37
<alkisg>
The Greek edu system is 6 years with no school or only pre-primary, 6 years primary, 3 Gymnasio (secondary?) and 3 Lyceum (High school?). Then it's University
23:37
<sbalneav>
'bout the same here.
23:38
"Go tell the spartans, traveller passing by, that here obediant to their laws we lie"
23:38
<alkisg>
Wow sounds strange in English :D
23:38
<sbalneav>
I think the new monument just says "Nolo labe", right?
23:38
"Come and get them"
23:38
<alkisg>
Molon Lave
23:38
<sbalneav>
What is it in greek characters?
23:38
<alkisg>
Μολών Λαβέ
23:39* sbalneav cut and pastes to his quotes file
23:39
<alkisg>
We don't talk that way anymore, sadly... the language has changed a lot
23:39
<sbalneav>
The greek naval victory later over the persians later was *way* more impressive anyway.
23:40
<alkisg>
Damn. /me gotta run for school. Later, all :)
23:40
<sbalneav>
cya
23:40alkisg has quit IRC
23:40
<sbalneav>
Ancient greek navy was kick-ass.
23:41
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/features/salamis/trireme.jpg
23:41
They used to just RAM other ships.
23:41
And then there was greek fire
23:42
πῦρ θαλάσσιον
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