IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 3 December 2008   (all times are UTC)

00:03
<SSlater>
G'day. Got a question about NICs for old hardware. Anyone able to help?
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00:08
<twb>
Personally, I *VASTLY* prefer the two-pane approach of a separate editor and preview, to WYSIWG.
00:09
For example, Emacs and xdvi or an HTML viewer. Particularly this is useful if the preview tool can use inotify to automatically refresh when the rendered file changes.
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00:10
<sbalneav>
SSlater: Don't ask to ask, just ask :)
00:10
What's the question?
00:11
<SSlater>
I have a bunch of old PIIs and a new Dell server.
00:12
I would like to get a small ltsp setup running.
00:12
most don:t have nic:s, and the rest don:t have 2 the same.
00:12
<rjune__>
!S
00:12
<ltspbot`>
rjune__: "S" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
00:13
<rjune__>
SSlater: you have to have a nic
00:13
intel eepro nics work well
00:13
<SSlater>
I:ll be using fedora 10 (when I set it up)
00:14
<johnny>
p2 might be underpowered for such a setup
00:14
<SSlater>
These intels will boot from the server fine?
00:14
<johnny>
all nics will
00:14
<rjune__>
intell eePro will PXE boot
00:14
johnny: not out of the box
00:14
<sbalneav>
Any nic that supports PXE booting will work "out of the box"
00:14
<johnny>
oh.. vs using a floppy on the side :)
00:14
<alkisg>
SSlater, how much RAM do the P2's have?
00:15
<johnny>
and cpu too..
00:15
<SSlater>
There won:t be much graphical stuff. So I hope the PII will work. At least till I get familiar with things ltsp.
00:15
<sbalneav>
Any nic that DOESN'T have a pxe boot rom can use something like gPXE
00:15
<rjune__>
sbalneav: true dat
00:16
<sbalneav>
PII should be fine even for graphics, so long as it has at least 128 megs of memory.
00:16
<SSlater>
The ram varies. But not much by todays standards.
00:17
<twb>
I have used PIIIs for normal (i.e. not thin) workstations before with absolutely no problems
00:17
Of course, I don't run bloated junk like VMware, Firefox and OpenOffice...
00:17
<SSlater>
I have enough lying around to get them to 128
00:17
Or can get more.
00:18
<sbalneav>
I've still got a bunch of offices running 550 mhz via's with 128 megs of ram, and they work fine.
00:18
<twb>
SSlater: you might find it hard to get new RAM compatible with kit that old :-)
00:18
<SSlater>
I:m still reading up on PXE booting.
00:19
There are some recycling places nearby where I can get it.
00:19
<rjune__>
yeah, 128MB ram would be good
00:19
sbalneav: how's life?
00:20
<alkisg>
SSlater: for starters, you may download the gpxe:all-drivers disk from http://rom-o-matic.net/gpxe/gpxe-git/gpxe.git/contrib/rom-o-matic/
00:20
You don't need anything else (other that a nic...) client-side.
00:20
<sbalneav>
rjune__: Busy, but manageable.
00:23
<SSlater>
If I can I want to get the bits I need, like nics, before Christmas, when things close down.
00:23
Ill work on the setup while the cricket is on.
00:23
<rjune__>
sbalneav: interviewed with canonical today
00:25
<sbalneav>
Yeah?
00:25
<rjune__>
went well
00:26
<twb>
gpxe is super nice
00:26
But I'd use the CDROM or USB version if you can, rather than a floppy version
00:27
Just because I hate floppies :-)
00:27
<johnny>
twb, but that's why i use floppies
00:27
because my users like cds and usb :)
00:27
they never need to use the floppy
00:28
so i just tape up the floppy drive on the last machine of mine that can't pxe boot
00:29
<SSlater>
So the gPXE .iso image goes on a (excuse me) floppy or whatever, then boot the client that has a nic matching those on the rom-O-matic site?
00:29
<twb>
Well, of course, the machines I used these days have neither floppy nor optical drives
00:29
Because moving parts are suck!
00:29
<SSlater>
Some of these cold be put in a museum.
00:30
<sbalneav>
SSlater: But remember: if the card has pxe on board, you won't need gPXE
00:31
<SSlater>
Yeah, gpxe is if the existing nics can be matched to that site.
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01:31
<alkisg>
While installing from the Ubuntu alternate CD, if the server is AMD64, what chroot is generated? For i386 or for AMD64?
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02:02
<generalsnus>
What is the best disk cloning tool, i can use for linux? i have a HD here, id like to clone. ive tried ghost, but it wont find my external hd, so i can save a image
02:06
<cyberorg>
generalsnus, dd
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02:30
<johnny>
generalsnus, if they are the exact same size. it is as simple as dd if=/dev/yoursource of=/dev/yourtarget
02:31
if they aren't the same size, then rsync is probably best
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03:58
<EXP2>
04:02
<sep>
why not save you the hassle and use a network webcam ?
04:04
EXP2, if it's skype or similar you realy want i would not think it's run well on ltsp. perhaps localapp would be a better solution there
04:06
<EXP2>
any suggestions for network webcam?
04:10
and other thing. Is it possible to deny multiple logins from clients?
04:14
<rjune__>
limits.conf might help you out there
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06:22
<tsurc_>
Hi, Ive got 1462 I'm trying to add to the fuse group, when I update nis to recreate the maps its telling me the list is too long. Any ideas?
06:22
1462 users*
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06:24
<laga>
i don't think ltsp 5 uses NIS
06:26
<tsurc_>
because I have multiple ltsp servers I use NIS and NFS to authenticate and mount home directories
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07:41
<jammcq>
bom dia #ltsp
07:42
<ogra>
bongiorno
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08:02
<_UsUrPeR_>
Ohayou gozaimasu, #ltsp
08:12
<nubae>
Goeien Dag, ltspers
08:18
<alkisg>
Καλησπέρα, #ltsp
08:18
<laga>
annyong haseo
08:18
(i haven't set up skim yet)
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08:18
<ogra>
vagrantc, !
08:19
<vagrantc>
ogra: greetings!
08:19
<ogra>
vagrantc, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-November/000514.html :)
08:20
<vagrantc>
cool
08:20
<ogra>
yeah :)
08:20
so you will always have a branch for the ltsp packaging to compare to
08:21* ogra glares at rpm ...
08:21
<ogra>
hmm, the rpm5 seems to build fine ...
08:22
warren_, is FC using rpm v4 or rpm v5 ?
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08:22* ogra isnt sure why debian and ubuntu still have v4
08:27
<rjune>
ogra: almost certainly fc10 has rpmv5
08:27
lemme check
08:29
<ogra>
hrm, but its not offering an rpmbuild binary
08:31
<rjune>
rpm-4.6.0-0.rc1.7.i386.rpm
08:31
looks like that's what's in f10
08:31
<ogra>
4.6 ??
08:32
<rjune>
http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/releases/10/Fedora/i386/os/Packages/rpm-4.6.0-0.rc1.7.i386.rpm
08:32
strikes me as odd too
08:32
I don't think they would update after the fact.
08:33
<ogra>
upstream i 4.4
08:33
*is
08:33
or 5.1 ... depending which upstream you tae
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08:34* ogra has a cat oon the lap ... hard to type
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08:34
<rjune>
cats keep the lap warm
08:35
<laga>
i'm jealous
08:35
<rjune>
ogra: you get the message last night ?
08:35
<ogra>
went well ?
08:36
<rjune>
yup
08:36
<ogra>
cool
08:36* cliebow ogra richly deserves cat on lap ;-]
08:36
<rjune>
not a great fit for arm, but might be another slot
08:36
<ogra>
curious what he will tell :)
08:36
<rjune>
he said he would talk me up at UDS
08:36
<ogra>
you come ?
08:37
<rjune>
no.
08:37
to the other team leads
08:37
<ogra>
ah
08:38
<rjune>
and iffn the other slot opens up, it'll be talk to the team time
08:38
<ogra>
soubds good
08:38
train your dpkg skills ;)
08:39
<rjune>
yupper
08:39
did some reading on arm too
08:39
<ogra>
#ubuntu-motu might be helpful
08:40
(and #ubuntu-arm if you aim for arm)
08:40
<rjune>
motu?
08:41
<ogra>
masters of the universe ;)
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08:41
<ogra>
universe: the community maintained set of packages
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08:44
<ogra>
oh, /me sees a 4.6.0-rc2 on rpm.org
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08:48
<cyberorg>
ogra, ubuntu moving to rpm? :)
08:49
<rjune>
it's required for LFS support.
08:49
<ogra>
cyberorg, rpm was in ubuntu forever
08:49
<pmatulis>
any comments on running ltsp virtually?
08:51
<cyberorg>
ogra, ah, didn't know that, we are still on 4.4.2.3, although it is "highly improved" rpm with lzma compressed payload
08:51
<rjune>
should work fine.
08:51
<ogra>
rjune, lets see, there are lots of debian patches i'll have to sort
08:52
<rjune>
sort for which?
08:53
<ogra>
look at the package :P
08:54
01-lsb-rpm.1.diff 13-rpm2cpio-help.diff 15-disable-rpmdiff.cgi.diff 17-dont-be-redhat.diff 19-misc.diff 21-kfreebsd.diff series
08:54
09-prereq.diff 14-work-on-debian64.diff 16-debian-warn.diff 18-tempfile.diff 20-no-linux-gate.so-dependancy.diff 22-ubuntu-spelling-fixes.diff
08:55
<Blinny>
Fun
08:55
<rjune>
jeebus
08:55
ok for the rpm pkg
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08:56
<rjune>
17-dont-be-redhat.diff <-- nice
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08:58
<rjune>
cyberorg: sorry, rpm is required for lsb support, I was thinking the Filesystem Heirarchy Standard
08:58
<vagrantc>
pmatulis: i use virtualbox for most of my ltsp development
08:58
<cyberorg>
rjune, yes
08:59
<vagrantc>
pmatulis: i've also used qemu sometimes
08:59
<pmatulis>
vagrantc, no issues? i'm thinking of using kvm
09:00
<vagrantc>
pmatulis: haven't tried it, but i believe others have.
09:00
there isn't a whole lot that modern virtualizers do that would really interfere with LTSP.
09:00
oh, i've also used XEN with ltsp a lot :)
09:01
<pmatulis>
nice, sounds like you've got a lot of experience
09:02
<Appiah>
I use Virtualbox or Vmware ESX
09:02
works fine
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09:02
<pmatulis>
ltsp-specific benefits of running virtually?
09:03
<vagrantc>
nothing specific to ltsp
09:04
cyberorg: replied to your ltspfs woes on ltsp-developer
09:04
cyberorg: seems odd that it would have broken, but who knows...
09:04
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, ah checking, thanks
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09:06
<ogra>
smells like a udev discrepancy
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09:06
<ogra>
though that would be surprising with udev upstream working for novell
09:07
<vagrantc>
well, the testing was done primarily on Debian, i think :)
09:07
which i hear deviates a good deal from udev upstream...
09:07
<ogra>
i thought Gadi did test as wel
09:07
l
09:08
<vagrantc>
ah, i suppose so.
09:08
<ogra>
that should be ubuntu whih is nearly plain upstream
09:08
<vagrantc>
i don't think i actually tested usb sticks ... since i have to boot a real thin client to bother with that
09:08
although i might have tested with qemu ...
09:09
<rjune>
ogra: in motu, is skeletor taken?
09:09
<CAN-o-SPAM>
who moderates the ltsp-discuss mailing list?
09:09
<ogra>
rjune, by what ?
09:09
CAN-o-SPAM, jammcq
09:09
<rjune>
ogra: you ever see he-man and the masters of the universe?
09:09
<ogra>
rjune, well, yes :)
09:10
he i the guy scattering bugs all over the universe ;)
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09:12
<rjune>
Uhm, not exactly. not unless the german version differs substantially from the US one
09:12
skeletor is the main bad guy.
09:12
<Q-FUNK>
spammers of the universe?
09:12
<rjune>
had a skull for a face
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09:13
<man-at-arms>
hah
09:13
<ogra>
rjune, right, i was adapting that to ubuntu-motu :)
09:13
<man-at-arms>
I should get bonus points for a double pun
09:13man-at-arms is now known as Man-at-ARMs
09:13
<Man-at-ARMs>
ba dum psh
09:13
<ogra>
hah
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09:21
<Man-at-ARMs>
!g
09:21
<ltspbot`>
Man-at-ARMs: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:22
<Q-FUNK>
Gadi :)
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09:22
<Gadi>
Man-at-ARMs: you must be rjune in disguise
09:23* Gadi waves to the channe;
09:23
<Gadi>
*l
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09:24
<Guevara>
hi people
09:24* Q-FUNK channel.WAV back
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09:26
<Guevara>
How to umount the device in ltsp usb 5.0 in ubuntu can only mount and umount not work, send an error message saying that the device is not in fstab and I am not root
09:27
<Man-at-ARMs>
Gadi: I am. I'm making a pun
09:27
<Gadi>
punny
09:27
really
09:27
very
09:27
<Guevara>
hey
09:28
<Gadi>
Guevara: if it is plugged into the client, just pull it out
09:28
ltspfs keeps it unmounted when not writing to it
09:28
<Guevara>
really???????
09:29
 but remove the device will not spoil?
09:29
<Gadi>
as long as the lights not blinking
09:29
:)
09:29
<Guevara>
very goog Gadi
09:29
:)
09:30
<Man-at-ARMs>
ogra: is there an ARM emulator that will run what you have currently?
09:31
<Guevara>
Gadi: I want the computer just use the disk to the boot and then the desktop icon it short, I have to do this?
09:31
Gadi: edit the /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/udev/rules.d/15-ltsp-block.rules file and comment out this line in the Legacy Floppy section: KERNEL=="fd[0-9]*", RUN+="/etc/udev/scripts/ltsp-device.sh"
09:31
is this?
09:31
<ogra>
Man-at-ARMs, qemu but there s no kernel for that
09:32
<Man-at-ARMs>
so right now arm work must be done on arm hardware?
09:32Man-at-ARMs is now known as rjune
09:32
<Gadi>
Guevara: sounds about right - what distro?
09:32
<Guevara>
ubuntu 8.04.1
09:33
I want computer did not show the floppy disk icon on the desktop after boot
09:34
<Gadi>
if you comment out that line and then run sudo ltsp-update-image, you will no longer have floppy as a local device
09:34
<Guevara>
but the boot continue works right?
09:34
<Gadi>
sure
09:35
<Guevara>
OK, very good Gadi
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09:35
<Guevara>
Gadi: I can rest with the umount in usb? It will not burn your device?
09:36
my device*
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09:37
<Guevara>
Gadi: I can determine a LOCAL_STORAGE = Y in your lts.conf file ?
09:37
in my device*
09:38
because the usb is mounted in /media/student
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09:38
<Guevara>
ltsp automatically mount in /media
09:39
Gadi: thanks for your help
09:39
bye
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09:39
<Q-FUNK>
there goes le Che
09:42
<Gadi>
wow - I turn away for a second, and I miss a whole conversation I don't quite understand
09:42
<Q-FUNK>
hehe
09:44
<sbalneav>
morning all
09:46
<Q-FUNK>
'evening
09:46
<_UsUrPeR_>
Ok, say I want to limit ltsp_localapps programs that are able to run on the client.
09:47
and I want to create seperate ltsp-localapps commands. I.E. ltsp-xterm (entering the command ltsp-xterm opens an xterm window)
09:50
<sbalneav>
_UsUrPeR_: limit them how?
09:50
<_UsUrPeR_>
gimme a second and I'll post some code
09:51
<vagrantc>
_UsUrPeR_: read the ltsp-localapps command ... it's pretty much a one-liner
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09:56
<_UsUrPeR_>
vagrantc: so say I want a seperate ltsp-localapps command and a seperate ltsp-localappsd...
09:57
<vagrantc>
_UsUrPeR_: i can understand the ltsp-localapps command, but why ltsp-localappsd ?
09:59
<ogra>
because is has a d in the name :)
09:59
<_UsUrPeR_>
which runs just one program. I have found that replacing the line LTSP_COMMAND= line in ltsp-localappsd to limit what argument can be entered. It I change that line to "LTSP_COMMAND=xterm" it will run xterm when I run "ltsp-localapps"
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10:00
<cyberorg>
_UsUrPeR_, you can do almost same if you mv ltsp-localapps ltsp
10:00
ltsp xterm will start xterm
10:00
<vagrantc>
_UsUrPeR_: sure you could have ltsp-FOO call whatever command you want ... ?
10:01
_UsUrPeR_: i don't understand what you're aiming for
10:02
<_UsUrPeR_>
ok, so what I am trying to do is limit the commands that a user can run with the ltsp-localapps command. I am using xterm as a test program because when it works on the client, it is readily evident.
10:03
<cyberorg>
Gadi, thanks, will test the fix :)
10:03
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: why limit?
10:04
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: institutional limitations
10:04
<warren>
uh huh
10:04
_UsUrPeR_: it is going to be VERY difficult to impossible
10:04
to fully lock that down
10:05
_UsUrPeR_: local apps already run as the non-root user of the user itself
10:05
<rjune>
does local apps still use ssh?
10:05
<vagrantc>
_UsUrPeR_: to really lock that down, you'd have to customize ltsp-localappsd ...
10:05
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: precisely! :D
10:05
err... wait, no, vagrantc: precisely!
10:05
<warren>
vagrantc is correct.
10:06
<vagrantc>
actually sounds like a useful feature...
10:06
<warren>
and you cannot run anything with parameters
10:06
<_UsUrPeR_>
exactly.
10:06
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: are you sure you specified LOCALDEV_DENY_INTERNAL_DISK=False and not LOCALDEV_DENY_INTERNAL_DISKS ??
10:07
cyberorg: because with none of the booleans set, it should be identical to your patch, unless you've also specified LOCALDEV_DENY in your lts.conf
10:07
<_UsUrPeR_>
cyberorg: According to our customer, the 1-click install works great with openchrome now. Thanks for all your help.
10:08
<cyberorg>
ah, had LOCALDEV_DENY_INTERNAL_DISKS = False
10:08
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: i kept doing that too
10:08
cyberorg: i guess we need an alias.
10:08
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, that still dont explain why removable usb wont show up
10:09
vagrantc, Gadi, just fixed something
10:09
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: right... no idea why your USB wouldn't show up.
10:09
<cyberorg>
_UsUrPeR_, glad i can help :)
10:10
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: all the udevadm info stuff looks fine to me.
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10:10
<Eeyore-Jr>
is anybody using wine in thier ltsp envirionment?
10:11
<cyberorg>
Gadi, pastebin also has partition udevinfo
10:12
<sbalneav>
Eeyore-Jr: yes
10:13
<cyberorg>
Gadi, just + break ?
10:13
<Eeyore-Jr>
sbalneav: how? i found this article which comes close i think
10:13
http://wiki.jswindle.com/index.php/Advanced_Wine_User_Installation#Installing_Wine_across_Multiple_desktops
10:14
sbalneav: r u the one with the manual?
10:14
any chance the manual could be wiki or public yet?
10:14
<Gadi>
cyberorg: indeed
10:14otavio has quit IRC
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10:14leio has quit IRC
10:14
<Gadi>
the logic was wrong
10:14
<sbalneav>
Eeyore-Jr: The manual is public:
10:14
!doco
10:14
<ltspbot`>
sbalneav: "doco" is you can find the link to the latest, and most current upstream documentation at: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
10:14
<Eeyore-Jr>
the new one?
10:14
<Gadi>
if the last value in the AND series matched, it succeeded
10:15
<Eeyore-Jr>
sbalneav: k, thx
10:15
<Gadi>
rather than requiring all to match
10:15
my bad
10:15
<sbalneav>
I'm totally dead set against turning it into a wiki
10:15
<vagrantc>
oops.
10:15
<Eeyore-Jr>
sbalneav: ??
10:15* Gadi never claimed to be logical :)
10:16otavio has joined #ltsp
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10:16
<Eeyore-Jr>
wiki leverages the power of the people. many users, compisite manual
10:16
<cyberorg>
Gadi, great, i am not even that logical to figure out the bug ;)
10:16* ogra always thought Gadi secretly implied that :)
10:16
<vagrantc>
Gadi: i had wondered a little about that code ... but didn't experience any troubles so just went with it :)
10:16
<sbalneav>
Eeyore-Jr: Many users == low qualtity. Have you looked at the mess the LTSP 4.2 documentation's turned into?
10:16
<ogra>
Eeyore-Jr, lots of wrong info you need ... you need someone to look after it all the time
10:17
<Gadi>
vagrantc: yeah its on me
10:17
<Eeyore-Jr>
anyhow, so ur using wine in a ltsp? rsyncing hte directories, or each user has thier own wine directory?
10:17
<ogra>
-"you need"
10:17
<ltsppbot>
"_UsUrPeR_" pasted "ltsp-localapps & ltsp-localappsd edited to execute only xterm" (80 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/124
10:17
<Eeyore-Jr>
well, yes, a wiki requires an editor
10:17
<sbalneav>
Besides, people want a manual they can "print out"
10:17
<ogra>
_UsUrPeR_, you are aware that localapps can only be executed anyway if they are installed in the chroot ?
10:17
<Eeyore-Jr>
that's what html to pdf is for ?
10:17
:)
10:18
<sbalneav>
Umm
10:18
<ogra>
_UsUrPeR_, just dont install what yu dont want to be executed ;)
10:18
<sbalneav>
Well unless you're going to only have 1 wiki page, that doesn't turn out so well.
10:18CAN-o-SPAM_ has joined #ltsp
10:18
<Eeyore-Jr>
anyhow. back tothe wine issue. i was thinking i needed to create a .wine directory outside of the /home directory, perhaps in / and then symlink usrers directory to the outside directory and use wineprefix to set that directory
10:19
<sbalneav>
That won't work.
10:19
<vagrantc>
wiki is a great place to collect useful tidbits of information, but i've never found it useful for comprehensive documentation
10:19
<Eeyore-Jr>
:(
10:19
<ogra>
vagrantc, ++
10:19
<sbalneav>
Each user needs their own distinctive .wine directory to handle their settings.
10:19
What I do is:
10:20* ogra really likes https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ though ... but it would be nothig if Lns wouldnt look after it all the time
10:20
<_UsUrPeR_>
ogra: yeah, well this seems to be the easiest way for myself to limit usage. It's either uninstall/remove everything that could possibly be a security issue, or limit the use of ltsp-localapps. It seems the latter is easier...
10:20
<sbalneav>
Install the software under 1 user, take the installation from the "drive_c" folder, and move it to a central location.
10:21
then, for each user's .wine, symlink the software from their drive_c.
10:21
that way, you only have 1 copy of the software, but everyone has their own registry, custimizations, etc.
10:21alkisg has quit IRC
10:22
<sbalneav>
As for the manual, anyone who wants to contribute, can email me stuff. 1 or two good submissions buys you entrance to the ltsp-docwriters team, then you can modify the XML directly. :)
10:23
<Eeyore-Jr>
i'm not sure i know enough yet to write
10:23staffencasa has joined #ltsp
10:23
<Eeyore-Jr>
i'd like to though
10:23
<ogra>
yeah, the ltsp-docwriters team is pretty open
10:23
<vagrantc>
any qualms with changing LOCALDEV_DENY_INTERNAL_DISK to LOCALDEV_DENY_INTERNAL_DISKS ?
10:23Loto__ has quit IRC
10:24
<ogra>
not at all
10:24
<sbalneav>
go for it
10:24alkisg has joined #ltsp
10:24
<cyberorg>
none at all :)
10:24tsurc has quit IRC
10:25
<Eeyore-Jr>
sbalneav: if you have 300 users wouldn't that be a daunting task?
10:26
<ogra>
there are these things called scripts ;)
10:26
just write one :)
10:26
<Eeyore-Jr>
sbalneav: is what you described in the manual?
10:27
<sbalneav>
Eeyore-Jr: No, simply because it's really got nothing to do with LTSP
10:28Loto__ has joined #ltsp
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10:28
<sbalneav>
Eeyore-Jr: I've got 185 users, so I'm not having too much trouble with it.
10:29
<rjune>
ogra: feeling snarky today?
10:30
<ogra>
rjune, today ?
10:30
:)
10:30CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC
10:30
<Eeyore-Jr>
sbalneav: how do you figure?
10:30
<ogra>
rjune, really, its a two ... max three ... liner
10:32
<sbalneav>
Eeyore-Jr: how do I figure what? That it's not to hard to administer? Easy: I created some shell scripts to do most of the hard work for me :)
10:32
So, I have the shell script create a default .wine, set up the dirs, and do the symlink to the app.
10:35
<Eeyore-Jr>
i've always looked at ltsp server as a vehicle for using software. software is where the real power of any pc to user is, and without software it's a pretty boat anchor. windows by far has a larger range of software applications provided you select the proper software
10:36
to leverage power behind ltsp server, knowing how to setup multiple wine install/wine is just as important and setting up ltsp server ... but i could be wrong
10:36
<ogra>
its a general task for multi user systems
10:36
<Gadi>
your OS is a vehicle for using software - LTSP is a vehicle for booting a diskless client to an OS
10:37
<Q-FUNK>
feel the OS. carress the OS.
10:37
<sbalneav>
So, how is setting up wine in an LTSP environment any different from setting it up in say, simply a network of full workstations, with shared home directories on an NFS server.
10:37
<Q-FUNK>
all your OS are belong to Gadi :-P
10:38
<cyberorg>
Gadi, that fixed it
10:38
<sbalneav>
Certainly, if someone wants to write up a wiki page on THAT, that makes sense to put in the wiki.
10:38
<Gadi>
cyberorg: YAY
10:38
<sbalneav>
But as part of the "official" ltsp upstream documentation, no probably not.
10:38
<Gadi>
thx for pointing it out
10:39
<sbalneav>
There's alread some stuff in the doco that I don't think should be there.
10:39
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
gadi: have you received my e-mails?
10:39* cyberorg goes to bed now, 'night all
10:39
<sbalneav>
Night cyberorg
10:40
<Eeyore-Jr>
nm, i'll do some reading
10:40
<Gadi>
CAN-o-SPAM_: emails?
10:40* Gadi does not think so
10:40* Gadi hopes they didnt go to my CAN-i-SPAM
10:40
<Gadi>
er *o
10:41
:)
10:41
<Q-FUNK>
all your spam are belong to can.
10:41
<sbalneav>
Eeyore-Jr: As for the wine bit, I suppose you could try having a single shared .wine, read only to the users, symlinked from their directory, but I'm willing to wager that whatever app you're going to run will be very, VERY unhappy if it can't write to the registry.
10:42alkisg has quit IRC
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11:09
<Gadi>
sbalneav: do you have a script that reposts the latest docs from upstream?
11:09
or do you do it manually every so often?
11:10* Gadi tried to rephrase some of the distro-specific assumptions there the other day
11:11
<ogra>
tried ?
11:12
<Gadi>
well, succeeded I suppose
11:12dmaran has joined #ltsp
11:12
<Gadi>
but, I only fixed a few in a section I happened to read
11:12
:)
11:12
too many people assume Ubuntu == upstream
11:12
and it shows in the docs
11:12
<ogra>
:)
11:13
it was upstream long enough ...
11:13
<Gadi>
and, yet I am sure you are happy to have it off your shoulders
11:13
<ogra>
yeah
11:14
i think the model we are using now upstream is quite uniqe as well
11:14
<Gadi>
we are the UN of FOSS
11:14
:)
11:14
<ogra>
hehe
11:14
<Gadi>
too bad nobody likes the UN
11:14* ogra wants a T-shirt with that
11:14
<Gadi>
:)
11:18
<vagrantc>
i haven't been involved with upstream of many projects that weren't very debian-specific ...
11:18
other than ltsp
11:18* ogra too
11:19* vagrantc ponders tagging ltspfs
11:19
<ogra>
go for it
11:19
<warren>
Ubuntu isn't upstream?
11:19
Even I'm confused now.
11:19
<ogra>
warren, ?
11:26
<sbalneav>
Gadi: Manually
11:26
Gadi: I like the UN
11:27
warren: Our "first" distro was Ubuntu, and Ubuntu sponsored a lot of the initial work.
11:27
But now we have Vagrant, you, cyberorg, etc.
11:29
<ogra>
now we have ltsp-upstream :)
11:29
<vagrantc>
debian was very shortly after ubuntu as far as uploaded packages, and debian-edu actually released before ubuntu's first release
11:30
<ogra>
we should rename teh team ... ltsp-upstream-UN-of-FOSS
11:30
so much fun to type :P
11:32
<cliebow>
perhaps we should just declare ourselves king of Scotland..like idi amin
11:32
<vagrantc>
ltspfs 0.5.7 tagged and pushing...
11:33
<warren>
ogra: But then we need rotating seats on the security council
11:33
ogra: and one day bad boys like SCO will rotate into that seate
11:33
seaet
11:33
seaet
11:33
damn it
11:33
<sbalneav>
I Have a Chinese Triptych in my office declaring me "The Electric Brain Emperoro"
11:33
<warren>
S E A T
11:33
<sbalneav>
Suit?
11:34
<ogra>
does a swivel chair count as rotating seat ?
11:34* ogra has one
11:35
<ogra>
i could borrow it to Gadi who isnt to far from the security council, he could bring it there
11:36
<cliebow>
weehee!
11:36
<Gadi>
so now I am the UN's bitch?
11:36* Gadi shakes his head
11:36
<ogra>
just the delivery boy :)
11:36
<Gadi>
just like in the real UN
11:37
<ogra>
Gadi, warren just talked about seats ... not that someone has to sit on them :P
11:43
<warren>
I was talking about seaet
11:43
whatever that is
11:45spectra has quit IRC
11:46
<ogra>
ah, right, indeed, that i missed :)
11:47* ogra grumbles again about rpm
11:48
<warren>
yes, I know rpm is awesome
11:48
except when it isn't
11:49
<johnny>
warren, drop rpm :)
11:49
pick up .debs :)
11:49
<ogra>
hehe
11:49
johnny, wouldnt help him
11:49
lsb still requires that you have the rpm binary
11:49
<johnny>
that can be amended :)
11:49
<ogra>
whcih is why i'm fiddling with the package
11:49
<johnny>
at some point..
11:49
<warren>
does it say that the rpm binary must work?
11:49
<ogra>
heh, not sure
11:50
<johnny>
lsb5 could use .deb instead..
11:50
<ogra>
i'll meet ted tso next week, i'll ask him :)
11:50
<warren>
LSB could make itself even more irrelevant by mandating autopackage
11:50
or something else worse
11:51
The LSB's own test suites are terrible
11:51
they rely on buggy behavior
11:51
<ogra>
i think there is some movement
11:51
td will hold a talk abotu the upcoming improvements at UDS i was told
11:52
*ted
11:53
warren, i was quite surprised to see FC releases with a release candidate version of rpm though
11:54
<warren>
ogra: we do releases with rc versions of kernel sometimes
11:54
ogra: rc rpm is meaningless
11:54
<ogra>
well, we do too
11:54
:)
11:54
<warren>
ogra: that rpm is far more stable than the previous "stable" rpm
11:54
<ogra>
do you know why you dont use rpm5 ?
11:55
<warren>
rpm5 is a fork by crazy people
11:55
nobody uses rpm5
11:55
<ogra>
seeing there are two different upstreams is very confusing
11:55
ah, good to know
11:55
<warren>
strike that
11:55
<ogra>
yeah, already did
11:55
<warren>
a community that builds rpm packages for darwin kernel uses it
11:55
<ogra>
ah
11:55
<warren>
they do fat binaries
11:56
ppc and x86 in the same binary file
11:56
<ogra>
i'm poking around on rpm-4.6.0-rc2 atm
11:56BrunoXLambert has joined #ltsp
11:56
<ogra>
but getting all the patches that are against 4.4.x in shape is a pain
11:57
though someting to do while i'm sitting at airports tomorrow
11:57
<warren>
rpm-4.4.x is a disaster because the rpm5 guy was in charge for so long
11:59* ogra sees there is a ubuntu specific typo fis for the manpage that wasnt fixed between 4.4 and 4.6
11:59
<ogra>
grmbl
11:59
i whish people would just send their patches where they belong :(
12:00
<warren>
rpm.org is very active now
12:01
<ogra>
yeah, but it uses trac
12:02
<warren>
I suppose you are suggesting that rpm.org should move to launchpad?
12:02
<ogra>
indeed *grin*
12:02
everybody should
12:02
that would make LP so much better
12:02
<warren>
git development should move to launchpad? =)
12:03
<ogra>
git development should ... git trees ... not so much
12:03
git just hurts ... with my work on armel i have to build kernels all the time ... its so painful and slow ...
12:04
<johnny>
git slow??? lol
12:05
bzr is slow..
12:05
<ogra>
huh ?
12:05
<johnny>
personally.. i dislike both compared to monotone.. so i'm not playing favorites
12:05spectra_ has joined #ltsp
12:06
<ogra>
compared to git bzr just flies
12:06
<johnny>
the bzr folks looks like they don't even look to mtn for lessons
12:06
their --fixes thing.. is pretty short sighted..
12:07
mtn let you assign arbitrary certificates to any revision.. not just some hardcoded fixes option..
12:08
and the support for one hardcoded shorturl scheme doesn't give any favors either..
12:08Eghie has joined #ltsp
12:11spectra_ is now known as spectra
12:12
<ogra>
wow, impressing, i just filed the 11th bug against rpm ?
12:15spectra has joined #ltsp
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12:25
<rjune>
damn
12:25
your internal bugdb or the main rpm one?
12:28
ogra: ^
12:28
<ogra>
the main rpm one :)
12:29
<vagrantc>
i should test on real hardware more often ...
12:29
found another bug with usb sticks...
12:30
if a stick isn't plugged in at the time of login (or ldm startup), there's no /var/run/ltspfs_token, and thus devices plugged in afterwards fail to authenticate...
12:31
with my testing i've always had a cdrom or floppy device...
12:32
at least, i think that's the issue...
12:34
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
DisklessWorkstations.Com is planning to 'police' and 'protect' the LTSP trademark. If anyone has any comments/concerns/questions regarding this please send me a PM. Thank You.
12:34
<ogra>
CAN-o-SPAM_, planning ?
12:35
CAN-o-SPAM_, i thought it already owns it anyway ...
12:35* ogra was always assuming it is protected through that
12:35* vagrantc hopes for no mozilla nonsense
12:36
<rjune>
I thought jammcq had that
12:37
<ogra>
rjune, jammcq owned pieces of DisklessWorkstations.Com ... when he left he left the trademark with them
12:37
<warren>
ogra: if you don't prevent misuse of a trademark you risk losing it
12:37
<ogra>
warren, right, but i was trying to understand 'police' and 'protect'
12:37
<warren>
DisklessWorkstations could go nuts and demand royalties for use of the trademark
12:37
<ogra>
protection should be there by owning it
12:38
<warren>
but they wouldn't
12:38
I would rename it to DisklessKit if we had to rename it.
12:38
LocalAppsKit
12:38* rjune goes to trademark...
12:38
<ogra>
haha
12:38
<warren>
JetpipeKit
12:38
<johnny>
warren, please no caps like that
12:39
it's the worst thing ever
12:39
<warren>
Hitler?
12:39* ogra quickly goes and trademarks the term Kit :)
12:39
<warren>
Britney Spears?
12:39
<vagrantc>
well, of course debian would rename it to icetsp
12:39
<rjune>
LOL
12:39
<johnny>
warren, just disklesskit please
12:39
making me hit shift all the time. you bastards
12:39
<rjune>
fedora-diskless
12:39
<vagrantc>
hell, i could resurrect lessdisks :)
12:40
<ogra>
the ltsp-client package in ubuntu until recently provided a virtual package called ubuntu-thin-client :)
12:40
<vagrantc>
ogra: finally ditched it, eh? :)
12:40
<ogra>
yeah
12:40
at least i think so
12:40* ogra looks
12:41
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
The intent is not to repremand to cause distrubances, the intent is to protect you (the developers of ltsp), and ensure that anything marked LTSP is actually LTSP and not something else
12:41
<ogra>
phew, yeah
12:41
CAN-o-SPAM_, that was what i was hoping to hear :)
12:42
<rjune>
so if I start a brewery, can I make LTSP lager as long as I donate to the project?
12:42
<vagrantc>
CAN-o-SPAM_: the real question will be how it is enforced
12:42
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
rjune: i'm sure we can work that out
12:42
vagrantc: this is your opportuntity to put your opinion in ... thats why i'm asking!
12:42
<warren>
rjune: CAN-o-SPAM_: nope, a LTSP beer doesn't need trademark approval
12:42
trademarks are specific to an industry
12:42
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
rjune: there will be some required free deliverly to me (warren *shhh*)
12:42
<ogra>
depends how widely the TM is files
12:42
<warren>
ooh right
12:42
<ogra>
*filed
12:43
<warren>
CAN-o-SPAM_: you could make your own beer (could be crap) and trademark it
12:43* ogra still has a 5kg box of the famous Linux detergent here
12:43
<vagrantc>
trademarks can have multiple industries, but in theory, you shouldn't be able to get them for industries that are entirely unrelated.
12:44
<cliebow>
beer and ltsp unrelatedc???
12:44
<rjune>
warren, yes and no.
12:44
<vagrantc>
cliebow: good point.
12:44
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
either way ... i'm looking for opinions on how you (LTSP Developers) would like to see the trademark protected ... that is all.
12:44
<rjune>
I could call it LTSP, but I couldn't use their logo
12:44
<cliebow>
8~]
12:44
<ogra>
http://samanathon.com/linux-detergent-and-microsoft-fabric-softener/ .... linux on microsoft
12:44
<warren>
rjune: the logo is so attractive and all
12:44
<johnny>
i would like the trademark to be held by some nonprofit.. but that's just me perhaps..
12:44
<rjune>
and they could make the case that by calling it LTSP I mislead the customer into thinking they would support the project
12:45
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
johnny: do you have any interest in funding a non-profit to hold the trademark?
12:45
<johnny>
no
12:45
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
ok
12:45
<johnny>
finding an existing one
12:45
to hold it
12:45
no need for more..
12:46
<vagrantc>
CAN-o-SPAM_: my main concern is to get into some debacle like with the mozilla foundations policies ... where you have to pre-approve patches before distributing binaries.
12:46
i think the real issue is that free software and trademarks are really at odds with one another...
12:47
<warren>
vagrantc: what if you are on the patch approval committee? =)
12:47
<vagrantc>
warren: i still believe that the software should be unencumbered for those who aren't.
12:47
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
vagrantc: i see that. the otherside is people have concerns that people will use LTSP without actually contributing to LTSP and your work ...
12:47
<warren>
vagrantc: is changing the name really onerous in such cases?
12:47
<johnny>
i don't see trademark at odds with free software myself..
12:47* ogra would define that the used code has to come from the ltsp-upstream team
12:47
<warren>
Note, I'm not suggesting that LTSP need to be as extreme and stupid as Mozilla.
12:48
<rjune>
CAN-o-SPAM_: why not grant a license to any group which contributes
12:48
<vagrantc>
warren: it can be technically difficult, like in the case of firefox.
12:48* CAN-o-SPAM_ would agree with warren
12:48
<rjune>
time for staph meeting
12:48
<vagrantc>
warren: it actually takes an inordinate amount of time to re-work the code.
12:48
<rjune>
ax time
12:48
<warren>
vagrantc: it could be less onerous depending on upstream design
12:48
<ogra>
s/from/through
12:48* CAN-o-SPAM_ agrees with ogra ... forget warren
12:48
<johnny>
$APP_NAME = 'whatever'
12:48
<warren>
vagrantc: Fedora for example, we put LOTS of effort to debrand everything and make it really quick to rename it.
12:48
<johnny>
instead of whatever scattered everywhere..
12:49
<warren>
we ship generic-logos now
12:49
we're so generic.
12:49
<vagrantc>
johnny: they are at odds, in the sense that mozilla is actually taking one very solid and clear interpretation of trademark precedent, and it effectively requires a fork of the software to comply.
12:49
<warren>
rjune: granting a license explicitly would be entirely non-free
12:49
Fedora wouldn't ship that.
12:49
<vagrantc>
warren: sure, a good debranding design can help a lot ...
12:50
<ogra>
do we actually have branding in ltsp ?
12:50
apart from one logo in ldm
12:50
<johnny>
the command names
12:50
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
we will
12:50
<warren>
generic-localappsd
12:50
generic-update-kernel
12:50
=)
12:50
<vagrantc>
ogra: the name of the packages?
12:50
<ogra>
vagrantc, yeah, well
12:51
i meant actual branding thats visible
12:51
you dont have an executable or any entry in a menu
12:51
<johnny>
i'd like to see that ldm theme redesigned..
12:51
<ogra>
th eonly user visible part is ldm
12:51
<vagrantc>
the ltsp theme for ldm :)
12:51
<johnny>
it's kinda ugly now.
12:52
<ogra>
and thats even rebranded on most distros already
12:52
<vagrantc>
johnny: now, as in, since when?
12:52
<johnny>
lol
12:52
<ogra>
CAN-o-SPAM_, any plans to get a commercially designed logo ?
12:52
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
ogra: very interested in that
12:53
<ogra>
(i didnt volunteer ... was just a question :) )
12:53
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
i'd like to position LTSP to grow in a commercial way, LTSP deserves a stronger stance in businesses, and we all know how the politics go, we need to present ourselves in that manner. DisklessWorkstations.com will work to foster those relationships and grow LTSP, DLW will not work to take ownership from LTSP or credit frm LTSP developers
12:53
<vagrantc>
CAN-o-SPAM_: it's hard to say what would be a recommendation, as i have no idea what y'all plan to do with the trademark... what you see as inappropriate uses of it.
12:54
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
ogra: i was waiting for that :)
12:54
<ogra>
CAN-o-SPAM_, we have some ltsp customers at canonical ...
12:54
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
vagrantc: i think inappropriate uses of it might come from what you see, what ogra sees, what warren sees, etc ...
12:54
<ogra>
it works quite well
12:55
<vagrantc>
CAN-o-SPAM_: i haven't seen particularly aggregious uses of it yet...
12:55
<warren>
ltspsucks.org?
12:55ltsppbot has quit IRC
12:55
<johnny>
buy it up before it's gone
12:55
<ogra>
warren, now you scared the bot
12:55
<warren>
ltsppbot didn't have a license. good bye.
12:55
<vagrantc>
CAN-o-SPAM_: another organization i've been involved with has been attempting to enforce trademarks, and it overall is just an ugly mess.
12:55
<johnny>
warrenisadork.com
12:56
<warren>
johnny: dude I get so much google ads revenue on that
12:56
<johnny>
it will be a page about all things warren
12:56
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
vagrantc: i completely understand, speaking with you and everyone else, i think is a 'baby-step' in the appropriate directly
12:56
<vagrantc>
CAN-o-SPAM_: so without specific examples of abuses of the mark, i don't really know what to say.
12:56elisboa has quit IRC
12:56
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
direction*
12:57
i wonder how many his ltspsucks.org just got
12:57
<warren>
CAN-o-SPAM_: simpler guidelines the better, probably
12:57
CAN-o-SPAM_: you run the risk of wasting everyone including your time
12:58
<ogra>
you can define it quite loosely ...
12:58
<vagrantc>
i do like the idea of the trademark being held in trust of a non-profit, and think it would be good to find an existing non-profit that could be trusted...
12:58
<warren>
PETA?
12:58
<ogra>
look at the ubuntu trademark ... you are allowed to use it in any context as long as the name makes clear its a remix of what the original ubuntu is
12:58
<warren>
vagrantc: or the NRA
12:58
<johnny>
sounds wonderful..
12:59
<sbalneav>
lol
12:59
<warren>
I know!
12:59
<sbalneav>
So, I googled for "ltsp sucks"
12:59* johnny images warren with two double barrel shotguns
12:59
<sbalneav>
http://natalian.org/archives/2006/03/24/mass-deployment/
12:59
<warren>
Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation
12:59
<vagrantc>
the tricky part is finding a non-profit that would actually have the resources to enforce, if it came to that...
12:59
<sbalneav>
"Every computer has a hard drive!"
12:59
*every* *computer*
13:00
<warren>
sbalneav: send him a t-shirt
13:00
<sbalneav>
*e* *v* *e* *r* *y*
13:00
<cliebow>
a virtual hard drive..
13:00
<warren>
sbalneav: heck, my LTSP SERVER needs no hard drive now.
13:00
<jammcq>
think of what all those spinning hard drives are doing to the rotation of the earth
13:00
<ogra>
warren, bah, yo are not allowed to carry the trademark then :P
13:00
<cliebow>
luckily they are all spinning in diff directions
13:00
<sbalneav>
BTW, there are only 4 hits on "ltsp sucks"
13:00
<jammcq>
all those little gyros
13:00
<warren>
jammcq: time to start the Conservation of Angular Momentum Foundation.
13:00
<sbalneav>
so I think we win.
13:00
<warren>
I'll join CAMF.
13:00
<jammcq>
warren: perfect
13:00
<cliebow>
the magnetic flux
13:01ltsppbot has joined #ltsp
13:01
<cliebow>
the magnetic flux field not generated by thinclient
13:01
<jammcq>
sorry, camf.org isn't available
13:01
<warren>
CAMFoundation?
13:01
<jammcq>
Registrant Name:CONFEDERACION ANDALUZA DE MINUSVALIDOS FISICOS
13:01
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: heh. i've met the guy who i think runs natalian.org ... *wingnut*
13:02
<sbalneav>
More gold:
13:02
"I’m not into recycling PCs. Waste of time IMO. Put a hammer to them. ;)"
13:02
<jammcq>
sounds like an american
13:02
<johnny>
your mom is american
13:02
<sbalneav>
Dude
13:03
not cool
13:03
<johnny>
hehe
13:03
<warren>
jammcq: 20 years from now Chinese charities will feed the hungry Americans...
13:03
<ogra>
++
13:03
<johnny>
:(
13:03
<ogra>
johnny, just reality
13:03
<johnny>
who wants to sponsor me for citizenships in one of your fantastic countries
13:04
<warren>
Elbonia?
13:04
<jammcq>
elbonia++
13:04
<vagrantc>
jammcq: i think south african
13:05
<jammcq>
Elbonia is the fictional country from the Dilbert strip
13:06
<warren>
what!? I wired all of my money to an Elbonian minister
13:06* jammcq checks to see if the money arrived in his account
13:09
<_UsUrPeR_>
how do I restart localappsd on a client if I killed the process?
13:09
without restarting, mind you
13:13johnny has quit IRC
13:13johnny has joined #ltsp
13:16johnny has quit IRC
13:17johnny has joined #ltsp
13:18
<Gadi>
_UsUrPeR_: log out and log back in
13:19
<johnny>
hmm erlang..
13:19randra has quit IRC
13:20Eghie has quit IRC
13:25Rob_Z has joined #ltsp
13:26
<Rob_Z>
hi, I run one of your mirrors, and I got an email from someone mentioning some a corrupt file. I have been trying to get ahold of my one contact who I knew used to have rsync push access
13:26klausade has quit IRC
13:26
<Rob_Z>
if there anyone I can talk to/email who may be able to look at/push thing
13:27klausade has joined #ltsp
13:28
<johnny>
huh?
13:28
<Gadi>
Rob_Z: an ltsp mirror?
13:28
is your contact jammcq?
13:29
<Rob_Z>
http://ltsp.mirrors.tds.net/pub/ltsp/
13:29
<Gadi>
aka Jim McQuillan
13:29
<Rob_Z>
I had jam@ltsp.org
13:29
<jammcq>
hmm
13:29
<Gadi>
that works too
13:29
or you can talk to him live
13:29
<Rob_Z>
and I just got a bounce
13:29
<Gadi>
:)
13:29
<jammcq>
if only we could find him
13:29
<Rob_Z>
hah
13:29
<jammcq>
what's up?
13:30
<johnny>
you broke it jammcq
13:30
we know it was you
13:30
<jammcq>
hey, I'll take full responsibility
13:30
<johnny>
there's an ltsp-5 directory in there
13:30
<Rob_Z>
:) I got an email from someone this morning saying http://ltsp.mirrors.tds.net/pub/ltsp/ltsp-5.0/ltsp_debian_etch_i386-1.tar.bz2 was damaged
13:30
<johnny>
weird
13:30
<ogra>
ugh
13:30
<jammcq>
hmm
13:30
<Gadi>
heh
13:30
<johnny>
is that even needed anymore?
13:30
<ogra>
why is that even there
13:30
<Rob_Z>
and I was looking for someone to repush the rsync or get md5s so I could checksum it
13:30
<jammcq>
we should prolly pull that file. it's quite old
13:30
<warren>
do we really need mirrors sanymore?
13:30
<Gadi>
sounds like good news
13:31
<ogra>
jammcq, the whole dir please
13:31
<johnny>
probably drop the entire ltsp-50
13:31
<jammcq>
warren: we still need to provide the old LTSP-4.2 stuff
13:31
<ogra>
it also has unsupported ubuntu crap in it
13:31
<jammcq>
even tho it's not supported
13:31
<warren>
I'm glad you say "ubuntu crap"
13:31
<johnny>
yeah.. just drop ltsp-5
13:31
warren, stop your fedora crap :)
13:31
<warren>
=)
13:31
<Rob_Z>
damn linux crap :-P
13:31
<ogra>
warren, it was all pre-release stuff
13:31
<warren>
yeah yeah I'm just joking
13:32
<ogra>
:)
13:32
<johnny>
warren, i'm still using fedora10 here.. but rpm makes me sad :(
13:32
or rather.. yum makes me sad
13:32
<jammcq>
I think if I remove it from my system, then when I do the rsync with the --delete option, it'll remove it from the mirror
13:32
<ogra>
warren, you know i dont take you serious anyway :P
13:32
<warren>
johnny: install synaptic?
13:32
<johnny>
warren, i mostly use packagekit
13:32
so it's ok
13:32* vagrantc would still like a place to upload upstream tarballs
13:32
<warren>
PackageKit sucks less than yesterday
13:32
<johnny>
packagekit needs a search in description option. and submatching support
13:33
then i will be happier
13:33* warren hasn't tried synaptic since like 2004
13:33
<johnny>
sucks less than yeterday?
13:33
did i miss a new version?
13:33
warren, stop capitalizing it :)
13:33
<Rob_Z>
well then looks like I sparced a debate, heh
13:33
<johnny>
kick richard hughes
13:33
and david zeuthen
13:33
to stop ruining my computer with capitals
13:33
<warren>
Rob_Z: we like to tease each other
13:34
johnny: his name is capitalized
13:34
<Gadi>
vagrantc: can you move that LTSPFS_TOKEN patch to an xinitrc.d script?
13:34
it should apply to all X sessions
13:34
not just LDM
13:34
<johnny>
warren, he's not a program :)
13:34
well.. i guess he sorta is..
13:34
<warren>
[root@newcaprica ~]# apt-get update
13:34
Segmentation fault
13:34
hahhaha
13:34
<johnny>
but he's still a human being.. sorta..
13:34
<vagrantc>
Gadi: probably
13:35
<Gadi>
hehe
13:35
thank you?
13:35
:)
13:35
<johnny>
warren, i don't usee you as Warren.. :)
13:35
<warren>
yeah, you keep saying "you dork!"
13:35chrisinajar has joined #ltsp
13:35
<johnny>
you're just warren
13:35
<warren>
I begin to respond to "you dork"
13:36
<johnny>
neat..
13:36
<jammcq>
Rob_Z: see if that looks any better now
13:36
<johnny>
solar power umbrellas
13:36
<warren>
johnny: oh, it turns out apt isn't ported to the new rpm yet
13:36cliebow has quit IRC
13:36
<johnny>
i should get some of those. .and put them outside of red emma's
13:36
<vagrantc>
Gadi: i don't have the time to test moving it right now, though.
13:36
<johnny>
altho people will probably steal them..
13:36
somebody stole our lightbulb!
13:37
<Gadi>
vagrantc: ah, ok
13:37
<Rob_Z>
jammcq: I'll email the user, he was .ru so not sure if/when I'll get feedback
13:37
<Gadi>
that explains the 'probably'
13:37
<jammcq>
Rob_Z: thank you very much
13:37
<Rob_Z>
thank you
13:37
ltsp was one of the few things on the mirrors I never have to deal with, so I had to poke around to find out how we got the content
13:38
<jammcq>
well... sorry you had to deal with this
13:38
<Rob_Z>
no need for that
13:38
<Gadi>
and by 'this' he means 'us'
13:38
:)
13:38
<jammcq>
zackly
13:38
<vagrantc>
Gadi: i suspect all the ubuntu versions will still populate it from init
13:39
<Gadi>
vagrantc: they cannot - it requires the X server, no?
13:39
<vagrantc>
Gadi: ah, right. that part, yes.
13:39
Gadi: but i didn't change that behavior
13:39
<Gadi>
you mean they populate the token file ahead of time?
13:40
<vagrantc>
yes
13:40
<Gadi>
hmm
13:40
sounds impracitcal
13:40
:)
13:40
<vagrantc>
it's the "old" way.
13:40
<Gadi>
we can always check for its existence first
13:40
<vagrantc>
the new way apparently has a little glitch
13:40
<Gadi>
and populate as needed
13:40
whats the glitch?
13:40
<vagrantc>
i just fixed it in ltspfs-trunk :)
13:41
<Gadi>
gotcha
13:41* vagrantc wants to try cdfs
13:42* Gadi wants to eliminate ltspfs-trunk/scripts/ldm
13:42
<Gadi>
:)
13:42
<vagrantc>
with debian experimental's ltsp, it doesn't do any localdev stuff from the ltsp-client* init scripts, it does it all from udev. so if you don't have any devices, ltspfsd won't start ... and thus the ltspfs_token won't be populated
13:43
<Gadi>
right
13:43
<vagrantc>
Gadi: i don't see how you could eliminate the ltspfs_fstab handler in an independent way.
13:43
<Gadi>
move to xinitrc.d
13:43
:)
13:43
<vagrantc>
since it needs to happen as part of login
13:43
<Gadi>
no
13:43
as part of init
13:43
<vagrantc>
the delayed_mounter stuff can't.
13:43
<Gadi>
no?
13:43
<vagrantc>
no.
13:43
<Gadi>
ah, really?
13:44
<vagrantc>
that's what i'm sayin.
13:44
<Gadi>
oh, I see
13:44
<vagrantc>
no! it can't!
13:44
<Gadi>
ur right
13:44
<vagrantc>
i know!
13:44
<Gadi>
my xinitrc version will be only for local ltspfsmounter
13:44
:)
13:44
<vagrantc>
and let me tell you another thing, Gadi!
13:45
<Gadi>
hehe
13:45
<vagrantc>
oh. you get it.
13:45
<Gadi>
question: do we need to regenerate the ltspfs_token on every xinit?
13:46
can we set the cookie with udev
13:46
and just set the xatom on xinit?
13:46
<vagrantc>
Gadi: then you get the bug i just fixed
13:47
<Gadi>
right - but you start ltspfsd in udev now
13:47
so why not set the token right before starting it
13:47
<vagrantc>
it does
13:47
but if no devices are plugged in, then nothing happens from udev, and then ldm (or whatever) doesn't have the authentication token
13:47
<Gadi>
oh, I see
13:48
but, wait
13:48
ah - udev doesnt set the xatom...
13:48
so, the only way to do it with just udev is for udev to also set the xatom for the display
13:49
<vagrantc>
yes
13:49
<Gadi>
which, I suppose gets uglier
13:49
<vagrantc>
and i didn't want to get into that right now
13:49
<Gadi>
:)
13:50
<vagrantc>
i guess we could do it right there, though.
13:50
<ogra>
sounds very insecure
13:50
<vagrantc>
ogra: what part?
13:50
<ogra>
(giving udev access to display)
13:52
<vagrantc>
for ltspfs, it's still pretty dependent on the ssh tunnel
13:52
<ogra>
just a gut feeling though ...
13:52
<Gadi>
and if not insecure, annoying ugly parse code
13:53
best to have the Xclient just set the token as you are doing (just in xinitrc.d)
13:53
<vagrantc>
although we're already doing some DISPLAY parsing from udev...
13:53
<Gadi>
yeah, but then you need to add xauth
13:53
parsing
13:53
<vagrantc>
yeah. no fun.
13:55* ogra wonders how valid all this will be anyway once we have dbus interaction
13:57* Gadi wonders when we'll have dbus interaction
13:57
<ogra>
i guess for our next major releases
13:57
all gnome applets will be 100% dbus next release ...
13:58
and kde is going the same path with kde4
13:58SDuensin has joined #LTSP
13:58
<SDuensin>
Good afternoon.
13:59
<ogra>
dbus becomes essential to get a usable desktop
14:00
<SDuensin>
I built a new Ubuntu-based LTSP server today. My workstation PXE boots and finds it. I get the Ubuntu boot screen, the loading bar goes across, then my display goes blank with a cursor in the corner... I assume X is fubared. Where should I start my hunt?
14:06
<sbalneav>
I'd start by setting the root password in the chroot, and logging in on tty1 and looking at the Xorg log.
14:06
The docs have some help in this
14:06
!doco
14:06
<ltspbot`>
sbalneav: "doco" is you can find the link to the latest, and most current upstream documentation at: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
14:07
<SDuensin>
Thanks, sbalneav
14:07
I'm reading the wiki now. Must have missed that.
14:07* SDuensin DOES read docs! Really!
14:10
<sbalneav>
NP, upstream docs for LTSP5 are relatively new.
14:12
<SDuensin>
I take care of the computers in our town's library. It's a mess.
14:12
They need LTSP!
14:12
<sbalneav>
Libraries are ideal places to use LTSP
14:13
<SDuensin>
This install is my test before I try and talk them into it. :-)
14:13
<sbalneav>
What can you tell us about the client?
14:14
How much ram, what kind of video card, etc.
14:14mccann has joined #ltsp
14:14
<SDuensin>
The machine that won't switch to X? It's fake. VMWare Fusion with 512M no "drives" of any kind.
14:14RasKal has joined #ltsp
14:15
<SDuensin>
Ubuntu runs in it great. I do all my testing like that.
14:15
<sbalneav>
Ah, you might need to specify the "vmware" XSERVER in lts.conf
14:15
<SDuensin>
The LTSP server is a 1 GB VMware Server "machine".
14:15
<sbalneav>
I beleive.
14:16
<SDuensin>
Well, the lts.conf I was able to find says it's not the one to use anymore. :-/
14:17
<ogra>
but it points you to the place where to use it now :)
14:17hanthana has quit IRC
14:17
<SDuensin>
Yea, and there's no file there. Just make one up?
14:17
<ogra>
yeah
14:18
<SDuensin>
I can do that. :-)
14:22Raskalit0 has joined #ltsp
14:23
<SDuensin>
Doesn't seem to matter. I even set SCREEN_07=shell.
14:23
<ogra>
did you set a default section ?
14:23
[default]
14:23
<SDuensin>
Yea. That's all I have.
14:23
<ogra>
SCREEN_02=shell
14:23
SCREEN_07=ldm
14:24
then look at /var/log/xorg.0.log on next boot
14:24
(on tty2)
14:24kharloss has joined #ltsp
14:24
<SDuensin>
Trying. (Thanks, BTW!)
14:26
It's just hung. I can't get to tty2.
14:26
<ogra>
weird
14:26
<SDuensin>
One thing I had to change... I turned off the DHCP server on the LTSP server. I have my own elsewhere.
14:26* ogra has only experience with virtualbox ... never tried vmware
14:27
<SDuensin>
I couldn't get VB to PXE.
14:27
<Raskalit0>
Hello
14:27X0d_of_N0d has quit IRC
14:27
<ogra>
well, running server *and* client in vbox
14:27
for development
14:27
<SDuensin>
Yea, but how'd you boot the client?
14:27
Hi Raskalit0
14:27
<ogra>
works fine with an internal vb network
14:28
<Raskalit0>
question from a newbie (in IRC also) in LTSP. Is it the right place to ask for hardware compatibility issue?
14:28
<johnny>
SDuensin, tun/tap devices
14:28
<Raskalit0>
Hi SDuensin
14:28
<johnny>
and using host interface networking
14:28
Raskalit0, possibly..
14:28
<Raskalit0>
Ta
14:29
<SDuensin>
johnny, yea, but VirtualBox won't PXE boot.
14:30
<johnny>
it will if you do those things
14:30
<Raskalit0>
I am looking to buy a couple of Asus P3-P5G33 Barebone Slim PC, adding 1GB RAM and a proc. Did anyone was successful in PXE booting (e.g. Ubuntu) with these boxes?
14:30Lns has joined #ltsp
14:30
<johnny>
Raskalit0, never heard of people having it.. but read the specs.. if it says the nics pxe boot. it will work
14:30
1GB ram is alot tho
14:31
unless you're running local apps
14:31
those are probably a b it more expensive than necessary
14:31
<Raskalit0>
Yes 1GB RAM is a lot I know, but we could add later a HD for dual PXE and local boot.
14:31
<johnny>
ok
14:31
well.. we don't know the specs of that nic
14:31
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
Raskalit0 have you seen DisklessWorkstations.com?
14:31
<johnny>
you're gonna have to read
14:31
or send them an email
14:32
if the nic is onboard.. it probably will
14:32
<SDuensin>
OK, going to VB with some kind of etherboot image. Seems VMware is mad. I set up a physical box and it came right up!
14:32
<Raskalit0>
The motherboard is a Asus P5K-VM. NIC info, i cannot find it....
14:33
<_UsUrPeR_>
ok, so what executes ltsp-localappsd on the client?
14:33
<johnny>
Raskalit0, send them an email if you want to be sure
14:33
_UsUrPeR_, ltsp-localapps :)
14:33
<SDuensin>
Thanks guys. :-)
14:33
<johnny>
it's in doc/examples _UsUrPeR_ on ubuntu, if you're using that
14:33
<_UsUrPeR_>
johnny: I mean the ltsp-localappsd process.
14:33
<Raskalit0>
Disklessworstations.com zes I know. But I need a shop which is in France (it is for a school in France and I have to have the bill in Euros, and preferably from France)
14:33
<_UsUrPeR_>
johnny: fedora
14:34
<johnny>
oh.. it's executed the same everywhere..
14:34
<Raskalit0>
jonny: yes, good idea... if they are replying, will see. ta for advise.
14:34
<SDuensin>
Anyone use KDE on this thing? Or is that a Bad Idea?
14:34
<johnny>
Raskalit0, but most likely, they will pxe boot.. i've yet to see a mobo that doesn't
14:35
<Raskalit0>
johnny, it is on board NIC
14:35
<johnny>
well.. then you have a good chance
14:35
but we can't say for sure
14:35
<Raskalit0>
johnny: as written when I joined the chan: I am a newbie :-/
14:35
I will dig a bit a if I am able to have the NIC info I will get back
14:36
Ta for help... see you in a while
14:36
<johnny>
_UsUrPeR_, i think ltsp-localapps executes ltsp-localappsd..
14:37
<vagrantc>
not executes, really... more it triggers ltsp-localappsd
14:37
<_UsUrPeR_>
johnny: on the client, there is a constant-running process called "/bin/sh /usr/bin/ltsp-localappsd"
14:37X0d_of_N0d has joined #ltsp
14:37
<_UsUrPeR_>
howver, I cannot seem to find the actual process that starts the localappsd process on boot.
14:38
<johnny>
_UsUrPeR_, it's magic .. duh
14:38* _UsUrPeR_ flails his arms like Kermit the Frog
14:38
<ogra>
isnt that S01-localapps ?
14:38
in the ldm rc scripts
14:38
<_UsUrPeR_>
ogra: ok, lemme check that
14:39
<johnny>
ogra, stop spoiling the fun
14:39
you're taking all the "magic" out of it
14:39
<_UsUrPeR_>
>_<
14:40
thanks ogra
14:41RasKal has quit IRC
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14:42
<Raskalit0>
Back
14:42kharloss has quit IRC
14:43
<Raskalit0>
14:44
Any known issues with these NIC re. LTSP? Please
14:44
Or could you point me to a hardware NIC compatiblity list?
14:44
Thanks
14:44dmaran has left #ltsp
14:46
<Raskalit0>
14:46
<sbalneav>
Raskalit0: ltsp uses the ditro's kernel, so depending on if you're using Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora or SuSE, if that distro supports the controller, then ltsp will too.
14:47
<Raskalit0>
sbalneav: planning ot use Ubuntu, it si for a primary school....nice intercae etc... I will look at ubuntu then. Thanks a lot.
14:47* Lns gives 3 cheers for "awesome integration"!
14:48
<Raskalit0>
Bye to the chan...
14:48Raskalit0 has left #ltsp
14:49
<ogra>
Lns, !
14:50
Lns, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPLocalAppSetup mind pulling it into the main wikipage ? (could also need some fleshing out)
14:51
<Lns>
ogra: !
14:51
sure, no worries
14:51
<ogra>
:)
14:52
<sbalneav>
This should probably go into the manual as well
14:52* Lns needs to get an ibex network running so he can be up to date on all this flashy new stuff =)
14:52
<ogra>
sbalneav, its ubuntu specific
14:52
<rjune>
ogra: does MOTU require a jaunty system?
14:53
<Lns>
Actually is this for Intrepid only? Or will it work in hardy?
14:53
<ogra>
rjune, a jaunty chroot is enough
14:53Eghie has joined #ltsp
14:53
<rjune>
'k
14:53
<ogra>
Lns, wont work in hardy
14:53
<Lns>
ok
14:53* Lns will put the version specific header in
14:53
<sbalneav>
ogra: Well, it just doesn't work YET in the other distros
14:53
right?
14:54
<ogra>
sbalneav, debian will have it installed by defualt in /usr/bin ... i think fedory too
14:54
*fedora
14:54
(lenny that is and FC 10)
14:55
i refused to do that back in intrepid until we have a proper transparent menu implementation
14:55
<sbalneav>
ah, so now that we do, in future it will just "be" in /usr/bin.
14:56
<ogra>
right
14:56
<sbalneav>
ok
14:56
<ogra>
thats rather for admins that also will reorder the users menu manually to replace the existing firefox entry
14:56
<sbalneav>
Well, I'll just add a section, and put it in /usr/bin, and skip the copy step
14:57
<Lns>
ogra: done.. since the page is immutable, can you possibly add the following standard header to the page? - '''This wiki page applies to Ubuntu Version(s): 8.10'''
14:57
<vagrantc>
debian lenny doesn't have localapps stuff
14:58
<ogra>
vagrantc, oh ?
14:58
i thought you added it
14:58
Lns, done
14:59
<vagrantc>
ogra: no, just the packages in experimental
14:59
<ogra>
ah
14:59
<vagrantc>
localapps didn't even exist when lenny froze
14:59
<Lns>
ogra: ty!
14:59
<ogra>
ah, right
15:00
<vagrantc>
and of course, debian's been hovering at around 50 release-critical bugs for two months now.
15:00* Lns is planning on sponsoring a professional video production regarding Linux/LTSP, specifically for education/school use, hopefully in 03/2009
15:00
<ogra>
ugh, still ?
15:03spectra has quit IRC
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15:05
<Lns>
I'm in the pre-planning stages of the video I want to have produced.. just wanted to put a shout out to anyone interested in being in the video, if your'e interested, let me know and i'll see what can be put together. I want it to be in somewhat of a documentary / History channel type format, and it will focus on the technology and not my company specifically
15:05
I'd love to have some of you in there
15:07warren has joined #ltsp
15:07
<ogra>
jammcq needs to be in it :)
15:07
he's *the brain*
15:08
and sbalneav as "the fairy of nghtshifts" :)
15:09
<sbalneav>
I thought I was the boothbabe :)
15:09
<ogra>
during the day ...
15:10
... but at full moon a little golden star at the end of a magic wand grows out of your right hand ...
15:10
:)
15:10
<laga>
ogra: what has been seen cannot be unseen
15:10
<ogra>
lol
15:10* jammcq doesn't want to hear anything about something growing in sbalneav's hand
15:11kharloss has joined #ltsp
15:11
<jammcq>
oh sorry, did I actually say that outloud ?
15:11
<ogra>
:)
15:11
<sbalneav>
I seem to have lost my internal monologue
15:12
<Lns>
hehehe
15:12* sbalneav pictures himself with a pink tutu, little wings, and a maaaaaaaagical wand.
15:12
<Lns>
ok, so jammq, ogra, sbalneav in a bathing suit.
15:12
lol
15:12
beat me to it
15:13* vagrantc suspects they'd need at least 3 suits.
15:13
<warren>
ogra: who is your gstreamer maintainer?
15:13
<ogra>
vagrantc, spandex ftw
15:14
warren, lool does a lot on it ... but also seb128
15:14
<Lns>
In all, I'll have more info when the video company gets back to me. Hopefully I can get everyone in it that wants to be in it, but i need to worry about budget too =)
15:14
<ogra>
warren, no chance to get either of us the next ten days though ...
15:14* ogra us actually packing bags atm
15:14
<ogra>
*is
15:15
warren, but we work *very* close with fluendo
15:15
<Lns>
oh yeah, jaunty @ google is next week eh?
15:15
<rjune>
ogra: I plan to ship tomorrow
15:15
<ogra>
rjune, cool !
15:15
<rjune>
when are you schedule to be in?
15:15
<ogra>
i touch ground in SFO at 16:30 local time there iirc ...
15:15
so early evening
15:16
<Lns>
ogra: do you think it'd be worth it for a non-programmer lowly sysadmin type to go, even for just one day?
15:16
<ogra>
Lns, sure, to have a look and meet people its surely worth it
15:17
<Lns>
right on..i can just drive down as SFO is like 1.5hrs away from me anyway =)
15:17
and google is just a bit further down
15:18
<ogra>
yeah, we stay in sunnyvale though
15:18
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
Lns: what company are you with
15:18* Lns thinks he should meet for the beer
15:19
<ogra>
cant say yet which google building we'll be in
15:19
<Lns>
CAN-o-SPAM_: my own, logicalnetworking.net - haven't registered yet thou
15:19
<CAN-o-SPAM_>
jordan, correct?
15:20
<Lns>
CAN-o-SPAM_: yup
15:20
(one of the jordans here anyway ;) )
15:20
<ogra>
seems a very popular name in the us
15:21
<Lns>
not too much.. i've only met a handful of Jordans.. and many like to remember me as "jason", "gordon" or "jared" for some reason.
15:23
<_UsUrPeR_>
!doco
15:23
<ltspbot`>
_UsUrPeR_: "doco" is you can find the link to the latest, and most current upstream documentation at: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
15:24ogra_ has joined #ltsp
15:24* Lns wonders when the best day to come will be to meet ppl and not get in the way of BOF sessions
15:24ogra has quit IRC
15:24* ogra_ doesnt know if access to http://summit.ubuntu.com is open already
15:24
<ogra_>
it has the schedules
15:25ogra_ is now known as ogra
15:26Blinny has quit IRC
15:30
<ogra>
Lns, can you access that page ?
15:30
<Lns>
hold on..phone w/video ppl
15:40
wow..videos are expensive =p
15:40
ogra: going to register now..but yeah i can get to the page
15:41
<ogra>
http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-jaunty/mobile/ has my schedule
15:43
<Lns>
ooo, trip to computer museum on wed? I'm so there!
15:44
<ogra>
you should rther join one of the jam sessions ;)
15:44
(tue or fri evening)
15:44Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
15:45
<Lns>
jam sessions? Should I bring my bass?? =)
15:45
<ogra>
only if you come friday ... i think the PA is ordered only for that
15:46
or bring your amp with you
15:46
<Lns>
wow, i thought i was being sarcastic
15:46
I can do friday i'm sure, that'd be a good day to drive down there, not much traffic
15:47
<ogra>
we have some awesome ex-pro musicians with us the canonical/ubuntu jam sessions are legendary
15:47
<Lns>
wow..well i'm not pro, but that sounds like fun =)
15:47
<ogra>
it is !
15:49
<Lns>
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-sru-process-streamline - NICE.
15:50
anyway, sorry for being so OT
15:51* ogra doesnt mind :)
15:51
<ogra>
the other 90 might though :)
15:51alekibango has quit IRC
15:51
<Lns>
all those non-ubu folk can kiss my grits! =p
15:52* Lns ducks
15:52
<ogra>
shhh ... warren could hear you
15:52
<Lns>
hehe.. ok i'm registered for Friday
15:52chrisinajar is now known as chrisinanoffice
15:52
<ogra>
cool
15:53
<Lns>
now I'm OTL, bbl
15:54
<ogra>
jammcq, didnt you say you come ?
15:54
<jammcq>
ah, sadly I won't be there
15:54
:(
15:54
<ogra>
:(
15:55alkisg1 has quit IRC
15:55
<ogra>
i would have pulled you on stage at the jam session together with Lns and stgraber we would have sung a tribute to the "the fairy of nightshifts" :)
15:55
<jammcq>
man, that would be so perfect
15:55
<ogra>
(i'm sure there is a recording)
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16:05
<Gadi>
ogra: what is the "adm" group?
16:05
<ogra>
Gadi, used for logfiles
16:05
<Gadi>
ah, ok
16:05
so that is correct
16:06
to have log files owned by that group
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16:09
<marcondes>
Stopping DHCP server dhcpd3 [fail]
16:09popey has left #ltsp
16:09
<marcondes>
whats taht?
16:09
<scayford>
If I run ltsp-update-image while clients are up and running are they going to get booted off?
16:10six2one has quit IRC
16:11
<marcondes>
some brazilian guy here?
16:11
or girl...:)
16:13
...i dont think so
16:13
damn
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16:15
<johnny>
scayford, no
16:15
<scayford>
johnny, do they just connect to the new image or do they retain the old image somehow until reboot?
16:16
<johnny>
retain i guess
16:17
<scayford>
Thanks.
16:17marcondes has left #ltsp
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16:19
<ogra>
scayford, nbd-server keeps the old one in ram
16:19
it serves the new one if your client is rebooted
16:19
(and a new connection is made)
16:20
<scayford>
ogra, I take it that it's reasonably safe to do while I've got folks logged in, then?
16:21
<ogra>
yes
16:21
<scayford>
excellent.
16:22
<laga>
ogra: i don't think it keeps the old one in ram - it won't be physically deleted because the nbd-server processes still got a file handle on the old image
16:22
IMHO, AFAIK etc
16:22
<ogra>
laga, yeah, right :)
16:23
well, its going on to be served to active connections ... thats what counts :)
16:23
<scayford>
makes sense.
16:33Gadi has left #ltsp
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16:39
<Gadi>
so, here's a new one
16:40
I've got a connection with LDM_DIRECTX turned off. I go to change a launcher icon, the progress bar goes half way and stops
16:40
but, if I move my mouse, the progress bar continues
16:40
stop moving mouse progress bar stops
16:40
move mouse, progress bar moves
16:40
weird
16:42
<vagrantc>
Gadi: you're not using the heisenburg uncertainty progress bar, are you?
16:43* vagrantc implemented a --randomprogress for lessdisks's progressbars
16:45mikkel has quit IRC
16:45
<Gadi>
yeah, well - I am slowly but surely tracking down potential slownesses
16:45
wondering if the RAID array is healthy
16:45
dunno
16:45
<ogra>
thats induced slowness .... not potential
16:46
(if it's bound to mous movements)
16:46
*mouse
16:46
<Gadi>
well, I dont know what interactions gvfs and ssh display updating etc have
16:46
but, I get the feeling that if gvfs is slow, lots of things get slow
16:46
really quickly
16:46
:)
16:47
and a degraded raid array may be a cause
16:47
<ogra>
unless you move the mouse :)
16:47
<Gadi>
right
16:47
:)
16:47
isnt that weird?
16:47
now, I had to disable the gnome-settings-daemon mouse plugin
16:47
in order for g-s-d to load properly
16:48
I wonder if it is related
16:48* ogra wonders if the mouse-o-meter gvfs interaction plugin he sneaked in secretly might be at fault
16:48
<Gadi>
hehe
16:48Q-FUNK has quit IRC
16:48
<ogra>
sounds like
16:48
what kind of mouse ? USB ?
16:48
<Gadi>
yes
16:48
<ogra>
ps2 ?
16:48
<Gadi>
USB
16:48
<ogra>
hmm, i wonder if it has to do with your udev hackery
16:49
<Gadi>
:P
16:49
ok, gotta run
16:49
got the call
16:49
<scayford>
you wouldn't be running out of entropy would you?
16:49
<ogra>
(since i havent seen it during intrpid testing)
16:49
<Gadi>
ciao
16:49
<ogra>
ciao
16:49Gadi has left #ltsp
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16:50
<warren>
ogra: We figured out the common pidgin crasher, it is complex. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=470000
16:50
ogra: might want to point your people
16:50
ogra: gstreamer's pulse sink really sucks
16:50
<ogra>
warren, will do ... i'll meet them face to face tomorrow
16:51
thanks a lot !
16:53
<_UsUrPeR_>
can someone point me towards where I can find an old specific kernel version?
16:53* _UsUrPeR_ is looking for 2.6.26.6-79.fc9.i586
16:56ltsppbot has joined #ltsp
16:56
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: why do you need that specific version?
16:58
<_UsUrPeR_>
warren: institutional limitations ;)
16:58
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/packages/kernel/ you'll find everything from the beginning of time here
16:58
time began April 2007 apparently
16:58
<_UsUrPeR_>
lol. good enough
16:59
<warren>
_UsUrPeR_: if you need the old kernel due to a bug, please write a bug report?
16:59
gotta commute now
16:59
bbl
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19:11
<lippy>
I'm having trouble getting ltsp-build-client to work after upgrading my system from Ubuntu 8.04 to 8.10. Is this the appropriate place to try and get some help?
19:18lipinski has joined #ltsp
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19:20
<lipinski>
Can anyone help troubleshoot LTSP problem after upgrade to Ubuntu 8.10?
19:25babyhuey has left #ltsp
19:25
<johnny>
lipinski, just ask your qestion
19:29
<lipinski>
ltsp-build-client fails after Ubuntu upgrade to 8.10. Removed entire /opt/ltsp dir and ltsp-build-client still fails. Problem with dpkg trying to configure hal. Totally stuck.
19:31japerry has quit IRC
19:33
<lipinski>
Cannot get any LTSP chroot built with Ubuntu 8.10.
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19:38
<johnny>
what does it say?
19:39
!paste
19:39
<ltspbot`>
johnny: "paste" is try !pastebot
19:39
<johnny>
!pastebot
19:39
<ltspbot`>
johnny: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
19:39
<johnny>
paste it there..
19:42
<ltsppbot>
"lipinski" pasted "ltsp-build-client error on 8.10" (23 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/125
19:43
<johnny>
never seen that
19:44
perhaps one of the ubuntu folks can help you when they come around
19:45
<lipinski>
johnny: yes - it does seem ubuntu specific. There seems to be a handful of underlying problems, i.e., dbus force-reload fails because it's not running; and then all the polkit problems - which seem to be related to GID differences between the server and the chroot.
19:46
<johnny>
it shouldn't matter. .because polkit shoudl be running on the server
19:46
<lipinski>
Can I build a different distro client on an Ubuntu server?
19:46japerry has joined #ltsp
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19:47
<johnny>
lipinski, no
19:47
or not easily enough
19:47
lipinski, polkit should be running on your server
19:47
<lipinski>
I thought so too - but ltsp-build-client is trying to configure hal within the chroot. hal.postinst seems to be trying to force-reload dbus and polkit-auth changes within the chroot as well
19:47
<johnny>
is dbus running on the server?
19:47
<lipinski>
yes
19:47
<johnny>
hmm.. i'm confused then
19:47
i did a fresh install on 8.10
19:48
and it was fine
19:48
<lipinski>
I was trying to avoid a fresh install. This was after an upgrade from 8.04 to 8.10
19:48
<johnny>
no.. i'm just saying
19:48
that it worked for me from that
19:48
and also it works from my upgrade of 8.04 to 8.10
19:48
so.. both cases worked for me
19:48
<lipinski>
really!?
19:48
<johnny>
i've never seen anybody come into this room with the problem you are having
19:48
and i idle in here often
19:49
not saying that it hasn't happened.. but im idling in here around 12 hours a day
19:49
<lipinski>
I've opened a bug on launchpad and started a topic in the Ubuntu forums - no responses.
19:49
<johnny>
hmm.. well the ubuntu dev should be able to give you an idea
19:49
when they come around
19:49
but it is very late in europe
19:49
i'd suggest trying back during european or usa daylight hours
19:50
they will definitely be able to point you in the right direction
19:50
<lipinski>
I'm an IRC newbie. Should I just come back then and repost my issue again?
19:50
<johnny>
yes
19:50
well..
19:50
better for you not to come back
19:50
and just not leave in the first place :)
19:50
if that is possible
19:50
in case some ubuntu folks happen to occur
19:50pscheie has quit IRC
19:51
<johnny>
i'll repost your issue if i see em before you are about
19:51
and you can just read your backlog
19:51
<lipinski>
I'll be on here for a while tonight (US time), but have to shutdown.
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20:16
<haz1>
hi everyone, i'm still using ltsp 4.2 and am planning an upgrade soon but am not sure if my main issue will be resolved or not - basically LocalDevices work just fine, but user home directories are also shared via samba and when accessing ~/LocalDevices/whatever under Windows the directory always shows up blank. Is there a problem accessing localdevices via samba?
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20:34
<robbie_>
sbalneav: hi scotty
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21:37
<haz1>
anyone awake in here?
21:39
<alkisg>
!ask
21:39
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: Error: "ask" is not a valid command.
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