IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 13 May 2019   (all times are UTC)

05:04
<alkisg>
vagrantc: heya, I'm thinking that we're not really complying with FHS... /var/lib(/tftpboot) is for preserving application state, and "the specific file hierarchy used to store the data must not be exposed to regular users" ==> which is what we do with all those dirs there
05:04
And "Users must never need to modify files in /var/lib to configure a package's operation" which is what we do with lts.conf
05:04
I think this should go to /srv/tftp
05:05
And then there's /opt/ltsp, while /opt is for installing packages, not for maintaining chroots
05:05
E.g. docker does use /var/lib for maintaining its images
05:08
So I'm not sure if /opt/ltsp should go to /var/lib/ltsp or to /srv/ltsp, but I don't think it belongs in /opt
05:09
<vagrantc>
alkisg: we're just using a long-established tftp path.
05:09
<alkisg>
That's what warren said in 2005, for /tftpboot
05:09
Then the fedora list told him "no, go for FHS compatibility" :)
05:09
<vagrantc>
which is why we ended up supporting all three
05:10
<alkisg>
And this produces issues like "I modify /srv/tftp/lts.conf, why does it not work" (because /var/lib is used too)
05:10
Now we're completely breaking compatibility
05:10
So we can care about doing the right thing only
05:10
...which is what? :)
05:10
<vagrantc>
if we're going to break compatibility, sounds like now would be the time to do so
05:11
<alkisg>
We are going to completely break compatibility with ltsp5. Anything that remains the same will only be because it just happens to be the same (name/need/whatever)
05:12
Even the mailing list now will be only for ltsp5; while for the new one, github issues will be used
05:12
I'll set up a community project for community wikies and issues (general chat) there
05:13
OK so... is /srv/tftp the correct place? I think tftpd-hpa defaults to that... and what about /opt/ltsp?
05:14
<vagrantc>
i think /srv/ltsp would make sense, if we're going to break compatibility
05:14
<alkisg>
For the images only, right? While for tftp, we'd use /srv/tftp?
05:15
Although at some point we might reuse that for http booting; we can still point an apache virtual directory to /srv/tftp then, as it'll be "dual used" both by tftp and http
05:15
<vagrantc>
i think we could serve them out of /srv/ltsp by default ...
05:16
<alkisg>
Or we can go for /srv/ltsp/tftp | /srv/ltsp/arch | /srv/ltsp/images
05:16
<vagrantc>
sounds good to me
05:16
<alkisg>
Serving them from /srv/ltsp would require updating tftpd-hpa configuration; but we don't default to that anyway; so it sounds good to me too
05:16
<vagrantc>
exactly
05:17
<alkisg>
OK great, agreed, I'll switch to that
05:17
<vagrantc>
and it can be symlinked or bind-mounted or whatever if they really need it elsewhere
05:18
<alkisg>
And all of them may need to be accessed via nfs, so we can export /srv/ltsp read-only, if needed
05:18
<vagrantc>
yes.
05:18
<alkisg>
E.g. single squashfs file over nfs, etc etc
05:18
Thanks for the input!
05:18
<vagrantc>
lessdisks used to just have the user reconfigure to serve the kernel right out of the chroot
05:18
it was one of my small sadnesses moving to ltsp
05:19
<alkisg>
Now we'll default to squashfs, so this isn't doable, unless the user manually switches to nfs
05:19
<vagrantc>
ltsp-update-kernels was always a thorn in my side :)
05:19
<alkisg>
Hehe
05:19
*we'll default to squashfs with VMs, not chroots, sorry
05:19
<vagrantc>
i tried to make it better ... which kind of made it worse ... and now let's do it better yet :)
05:20
<alkisg>
Btw I'm passing ROOTPATH in the cmdline now, so we can stop using it in nbd-server config headers
05:20
And only put the img name there
05:21
(ROOTPATH isn't available with proxydhcp)
05:21
(nor with local kernel booting)
05:21
<vagrantc>
i definitely recall passing ROOTPATH with proxydhcp
05:22
<alkisg>
Proxydhcp = only server and boot filename, not path
05:22
<vagrantc>
could be misremembering, it was so long ago
05:22
<alkisg>
Hence all those workarounds for defaulting to arch.img in the initramfs
05:26
So now cmdline is: root=/dev/nbd0[p1] nbdroot=${srv}:${img}, and this even avoids the need for our ipconfig-patching script, called udhcp
05:26
And we default to IPAPPEND 2, emulated through ipxe
05:27
<vagrantc>
partitioned NBD images, eh?
05:27
<alkisg>
Right
05:27
Booting VMs direclty, without squashfs
05:28
And, modifying the cmdline or its parameters is now done in a single file, ltsp.ipxe, instead of dnsmasq.conf + pxelinux.cfg/default + update-kernels + ...
05:28
E.g. to have a client boot over nfs
05:29
This is a server-side decision, it shouldn't involve updating the chroot in any way
05:30
vagrantc: I think you've tested single-squashfs-file over NFS, right? Was it stable? Should we officially support that, as nbd may be the default but it frequently has issues?
05:30
<vagrantc>
loop-mounted squashfs over NFS worked quite reasonably well when i tried it
05:30
<alkisg>
Great
05:31
I wonder if max would accept a patch for that, I think dracut supports it out of the box
05:31
<vagrantc>
will have to add some support in the initramfs
05:31
<alkisg>
(although figuring out the appropriate dracut cmdline is a pain)
05:32
I think casper supports it too, loopsomething=path
05:32
<vagrantc>
it actually got most of the performance gains comparing NBD to NFS+squashfs+loopdevice
05:33
<alkisg>
And I think it would survive server reboots too, unlike nbd
05:33
<vagrantc>
NFS still had a little more overhead becuase it's NFS ... but it could load compressed blocks and usefully cache them to reduce NFS calls
05:34
yeah, read-only NFS is astoundingly resilient when it comes to connectivity issues
05:34
<alkisg>
Yeah, it only needs a single file metadata over nfs; the rest are blocks
05:34
NFS only has problems with swap; can't easily offer swap on top of that; but I wouldn't mind defaulting to nfs+squashfs if it's much more stable
05:35
<vagrantc>
i've rebooted servers multiple times and had clients continue to connect without problems (other than delays while the server wasn't serving)
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05:35
<vagrantc>
would be pretty curious to go back to using NFS :)
05:36
<alkisg>
It will be squashfs+nfs; different thing :D
05:36
<vagrantc>
still
05:36
given that i finally gave in and switched Debian to NBD what feels like recently...
05:37
<alkisg>
I'll try to support all these, and we'll decide after appropriate benchmarks
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12:43
<nehemiah>
Will ldm still be de display manager in ltsp19.08?
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13:07
<alkisg>
nehemiah: not sure. It's like 40% ldm, 30% libpam-sshauth, 20% something else,
13:07
...and 10% bad calculations :P
13:07
It'll probably be a reimplementation in python though
13:09
<nehemiah>
Could another option possibly be to use ldap? Just thinking out loud.
13:24
<alkisg>
that's the 20%
13:25
i heard it's rather hard and won't have sshfs too
13:31
i.e. ldap can't open an ssh channel, so no sshfs, so ? nfsv3 => unsafe, so? nfsv4 => kerberos for safety, so ? rather hard
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16:34
<josefig>
hi people :)
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17:11
<alkisg>
heya josefig
17:11
<josefig>
how are ya guys?
17:12
i'm going to grow up my LTSP installation you know.
17:12
now i'm getting 5-8 more developers
17:13
<alkisg>
How many clients will you have?
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17:33
<jeblesh>
hi all, i need avice about terminal server any one free to chat ?
17:35
i need to install terminal server on a desktop computer and it need to serve its own system not a difrent one
17:36
cant finde any documeantation on it is it posible ?
17:36
<alkisg>
!install
17:36
<ltsp>
install: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu for Ubuntu, or http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation for other distributions
17:36
<alkisg>
jeblesh: it's this page ^
17:36
<jeblesh>
thenx
17:36
<alkisg>
the "chrootless" setup there
17:36
np
17:48
<jeblesh>
so after the setup all i need is to boot from the network ?
17:58
<alkisg>
right
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18:06
<jeblesh_>
okt i followd evry thin but the labtop pix boot dosent work ...
18:07
its the first time im using pix booting so no idear whaer to begin
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18:13
<josefig>
alkisg, sorry i got into a conference. I'm going to have 20 in total
18:22
<alkisg>
jeblesh_: what is the error message that you get?
18:23
<jeblesh_>
none on the labtop its just tarting PXE boot over ipv4 then go to over ipv6 and then just boot's from the HD ...
18:24
<alkisg>
jeblesh_: ipv6? are you trying uefi pxe booting? switch to legacy (bios) pxe boot
18:24
<jeblesh_>
oky ill look for that
18:24
<alkisg>
Go to the client setup, and select legacy (csm) there
18:33
<jeblesh_>
oky sorted legacy mod but nogo
18:33
it was fast but i think the error messege was no file rom
18:34
any idears or ill just video the screen for the errore messege ?
18:38
oky video the screen no boot file name recived
18:43
<alkisg>
jeblesh_: I don't have much time, did you follow the instruction and install epoptes? If so, I can have a quick look with remote support
18:44
<jeblesh_>
yes
18:44
<alkisg>
!vnc-dide
18:44
<ltsp>
vnc-dide: To share your screen with me, run this: sudo apt-get --yes install x11vnc; x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr - this is a reverse connection, it doesn't need port forwarding etc.
18:45
<alkisg>
just this : x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr
18:49
jeblesh_: reboot the client
18:49
so that we watch server-side messages
18:49
Is the client on the same subnet?
18:50
I don't see any dhcp requests there
18:50
<jeblesh_>
sub net ? switch you mean ?
18:51
<alkisg>
yes
18:51
<jeblesh_>
let me check ...
18:51
<alkisg>
do you have a switch, and on that switch,the router, the ltsp server, and the client?
18:51
<jeblesh_>
yes
18:51
<alkisg>
OK can I install virtualbox and try?
18:51
Because your setup seemsfine
18:51
<jeblesh_>
oky
19:03
<alkisg>
jeblesh_: somehow the client doesn't communicate with the server
19:03
firewall or something
19:03
But I need to go now; see if someone else can help you, otherwise tomorrow
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19:08
<jeblesh_>
oky thenx alot
19:08
<alkisg>
np
19:25
<jeblesh_>
oky theirs progress i opend services in the fire wall DHCP,TFTP,NFS,SSH, now the client errore's out cold not locate boot server
19:28
<alkisg>
Try to turn off the firewall for a while
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