IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 25 November 2007   (all times are UTC)

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00:31
<subir>
mathesis, http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto/
00:31
mathesis, that's in fact for etch
00:31
<mathesis>
i have debian lenny!!!
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03:52
<alkisg>
Hi guys, in edubuntu Gutsy there is the "Student Control Panel" which works through x11vnc and allows the teacher to see the students' screens. Has anyone heard of any project that uses shared X windows sessions instead of vnc to accomplish the same functionality? It would save a lot of bandwidth (because the session would be duplicated on the server) and it would also make possible for the teacher to broadcast his screen to the students... Is this
03:52
technically possible?
03:54
And who should one contact to formally start such a project, if there isn't any? I'm an experienced programmer but a newbie to linux, so I could do this but I'll need directions...
04:01
<johnny>
that's not how it works
04:01
you just start doing it :)
04:01
after asking whether anybody is doing it that is
04:01
post on one of the lists
04:01
not all the developers hang out
04:01
<Joris>
ogra: are you arround?
04:01
<johnny>
here
04:02
<alkisg>
I don't have the experience to model such a project, so directions are needed from an experienced linux programmer before I start...
04:02
I was programming for Windows the last 15 years... :(
04:02
<Joris>
alkisg: NX does what you're thinking of
04:02
<johnny>
it's not the same thing
04:02
there is no such thing as a "linux programmmer"
04:03
unless you program on the kernel that is :)
04:03
<Joris>
alkisg: it's a compression proxy (and latency reducer) for raw X traffic
04:03
<alkisg>
FreeNX? Doesn't it work like VNC?
04:03
<Joris>
oh, wait
04:03
ok, nevermind
04:03
<-- stupid, misread your query trough sleepy eyes
04:04
<johnny>
alkisg, xorg server works on many other operating systems other than windows
04:04
err other than linux
04:04
<alkisg>
Would it be ok if I directly contacted ogra, the maintener of the student control package? Is it usual? :)
04:04
<johnny>
it's prolly best if you don't until you do more research on your own
04:05
<alkisg>
Yes, but still the intermediate layer that needs to be programmed will be best designed by someone who already has experience on the x protocol
04:05
<johnny>
i doubt you're going to get directions tho..
04:05
<alkisg>
How do I find out if there is already something like what I'm looking out there? A message on the list?
04:05
<johnny>
yes
04:06
but i doubt anybody will hold your hand to teach you X programming
04:06
which is kinda sad in a way
04:06
but it's sorta a black art :)
04:06
all the folks who know are busy enough :)
04:06
<alkisg>
No, I'll do that, I'll just need to exchange a couple of mails to see that I'm on the right track
04:06* johnny isn't one of them
04:06
<johnny>
yeah
04:06
<alkisg>
newbie :p question: and which list would that be???
04:07
<johnny>
uhmm.. pick the one that is most relevant from the ltsp site
04:07
<alkisg>
ok, I'll check. Thanks!
04:07
<johnny>
perhaps ltsp-developer ? that's the only one i know off the top of my head
04:07
read the archives to see which one might be the best fit
04:08
based on the most recent posts
04:08
somebody here could give you a much better answer than i
04:08
<alkisg>
And the packages get accepted based on their maturity?
04:08
<johnny>
i'm just now getting involved with ltsp
04:08
to distros yes..
04:08
but in the src tree no
04:08
<alkisg>
OK, an offtopic question?
04:09
<johnny>
?
04:09
<alkisg>
I tried to install kdm on the clients with ltsp-build-image with enable-pre <i don't exactly remember the option> but it didn't work
04:10
the option was to enable some packages in the early stages
04:10
and I put kdm there, but now it won't show X at all... Is it supposed to work like this or I'm doing something really stupid?
04:11
let me see the exact option...
04:11
ltsp-build-client I mean
04:12
<johnny>
why use kdm?
04:12
i'm happy enoughwith ldm i guess
04:13
<alkisg>
It's easier for the students to click on their faces
04:13
And I couldn't make ldm show greek interface
04:13
ltsp-build-image --early-packages kdm
04:14
ltsp-build-client , again mistaken
04:15
<cyberorg>
alkisg, it doesnt work that way, you need to change one of the script that launched ldm and put kdm there
04:15
but kdm uses xdmcp, check how ltsp5 does that
04:15
<alkisg>
In ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/030-early-packages the script gets the command line and generates the modifications automatically
04:16
<cyberorg>
ltsp5 by default uses X over ssh
04:16
<alkisg>
So I was supposed to get greek support with ltsp-build-client --locale:el_GR.UTF8, but it didn't work
04:16
<cyberorg>
xdmcp was dropped for a lot of reasons
04:17
<alkisg>
I see.. so I won't be able to use kdm no matter how I try. Thanks!
04:17
About the greek locale in ldm?
04:17
<cyberorg>
alkisg, there might be, just check the documentation
04:18
<alkisg>
I *did* check (I'm looking for more than a week now), but no cigar! :(
04:18
<cyberorg>
it is something about startx call in one of the config
04:18
<alkisg>
In lts.conf I can put SCREEN_01=startx. Is this the one?
04:19
<cyberorg>
yeah that one
04:19
<alkisg>
But how will that start kdm?
04:19
I also tried to put kdm in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/default_display_manager, but no success either
04:19
<cyberorg>
it just calls startx, which will launch whichever dm you have default
04:20
<alkisg>
I tried it, but I didn't have kdm in the clients, and it didn't take it from the server
04:20
Then I chroot'ed, apt-get install kdm, tried again and it didn't load X at all
04:20
<cyberorg>
you'll have to install kdm in chroot
04:22
<alkisg>
There must be a bug in the scripts, but I'm not experienced enough to find it... So, any ideas about ldm with greek interface on the clients?
04:23
<johnny>
post that
04:24
<alkisg>
On the user's list?
04:25
OK guys thank you very much, I'll try the lists. :)
04:30
<johnny>
cool
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08:29
<Drakeweb>
hey
08:30
cliebow
08:30
do you have any experience with neoware eon thin clients?
08:34
<Joris>
ogra: can I pick your brain once more?
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08:54
<MasterOne>
hi guys, what's the name of that script again, that kills open sessions, if a user tries to login more than once at the same time?
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09:04
<cliebow>
Drakeweb, no sorry..never tried em..how is your project going..
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09:08
<MasterOne>
hi guys, what's the name of that script, that automatically kills a session, if a user tries to login more than once at the same time?
09:08
<Drakeweb>
I've given up with the 2200s - they are just too difficult to get working. I picked up a Neoware Eon 4000s for next to nothing, it has PXE booting and apparently works, but I'm having trouble getting an xserver to run
09:08
it boots fine, but fails graphically
09:09
and I'm now playing with my lts.conf
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09:20
<MasterOne>
what's the name of that script, that automatically kills a session, if a user tries to login more than once at the same time?
09:20
vagrantc: ping
09:21
<vagrantc>
no idea
09:21
<ogra>
vagrantc, !!
09:21* vagrantc prepares to merge the debian branch
09:21
<ogra>
will we see some merge action on the tree today ?
09:21* ogra dances
09:21
<vagrantc>
ogra: thanks to virtualbox, i got a lot of work done without internet access or even a thin client :)
09:22
<ogra>
yay
09:22
<vagrantc>
ogra: i know you'd rather have virtual hal devices for ltspfs, but did you see my patches to do only a single mount?
09:22
<ogra>
i have some fixed to mkdist.sh
09:23
no, but feel free to add them, virtual hal devices wont happen soon
09:23
<vagrantc>
i was thinking mkdisk.sh should be it's own project, so we could re-use it for all of the various LTSP projects
09:23
<ogra>
if you think its safe
09:23
<MasterOne>
damned, someone here told me not long ago, but I can't remember, I already googled, but can not find it. It must have been on the mailinglist, and it's pretty much essential to prevent users from messing up their session by entering multiple times
09:24
<ogra>
MasterOne, there is xterminator from moquist out there somewhere
09:24
<MasterOne>
yes, that's it :)
09:24
<vagrantc>
well, i haven't tested my ltspfs patches with gnome or kde desktops ... it does the mount and you can mess with files and such ... but don't know if it will pop icons up on desktops and such
09:24
<MasterOne>
thanks
09:24
<ogra>
vagrantc, gnome will as long as you mount under /media
09:24
<vagrantc>
ogra: nice.
09:25
<ogra>
KDE sadly needs a separate inotify trigger or a link on the desktop
09:25
<vagrantc>
hm.
09:25
<ogra>
i was thinking about adding an optional link function to ltspfsmounter
09:25
<vagrantc>
ogra: maybe we could have some sort of ltspfsmounter hooks that do things ...
09:25
<ogra>
snap :)
09:25
<vagrantc>
ogra: that way the admin could set up whatever they wanted
09:25
<ogra>
yup
09:26* ogra just made his ebox 1000 his new router ...
09:26
<ogra>
but i seem to dumb to get ipmasq and port forwarding to work together :/
09:26
<vagrantc>
and would be easy to teest virtual hal devices or direct mounting in media or wherever the admin wants
09:26* ogra knows ipmasq it deprecated ... but its so comfortable
09:27
<vagrantc>
ogra: the ipmasq package?
09:27
<ogra>
yep
09:27
<vagrantc>
yeah, i use it all the time. it's so simple.
09:27
<ogra>
is it still maintained ?
09:27
<Drakeweb>
vagrantc: I managed to get the xorg log from my eon 4000 thin client. would you mind looking at it for me?
09:27
<vagrantc>
ogra: i've seen security fixes for debian within the last year ...
09:27
<ogra>
vagrantc, but do you build DMZs with port forwarding with it ?
09:28
i have old scripts that worked with 2.4 ...
09:28
but they dont seem to work with 2.6
09:28
<vagrantc>
ogra: no, i just use it for simple NAT
09:28
<ogra>
yeah
09:28
hmm
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09:28
<vagrantc>
Drakeweb: post it to the pastebot
09:28
!pastebot
09:28
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
09:29* ogra also discoverd lighttpd :) cool little webserver
09:29
<vagrantc>
ogra: i wanted to do a bit of code cleanup on mkdist.sh ... but you still have some pending commits ?
09:29
<ogra>
and actually i should write speccs :/
09:29
vagrantc, yup
09:29
only 6 lines or so ...
09:29
<vagrantc>
ogra: what do you think about maintaining it in it's own bzr branch?
09:29
<ogra>
feel free to commit your changes and i'll adjust mine
09:30
seems a bit overkill
09:30
<vagrantc>
i have no commits ... more of a ... i'd like to change that... and that... and that...
09:30
<ltsppbot>
"drakeweb" pasted "xorg log file from neoware eon 4000s" (528 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/371
09:30
<ogra>
for a single 30 line script
09:30
<vagrantc>
ogra: yeah, but sure beats distributing it with ltsp, ltspfs, and ldm and who knows what other projects ... i'd like to use the same script for all.
09:30
<ogra>
i think the one in ltsp core should just be the master
09:31
right, that was the plan
09:31* vagrantc would prefer a separate project...
09:31
<ogra>
but i dont see a reason for a complete branch for a single script
09:31
warren, what do you think ?
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09:32
<vagrantc>
the ltsp branch is already huge ...
09:32
it's really a distinct project ...
09:32
<ogra>
well, but its only one script
09:32
and unlikely to grow much
09:32
(if we have reached a certain development level at least)
09:32
<vagrantc>
all the more reason to leave it in a separate branch :)
09:33
i guess we just fundamentally disagree here ... :P
09:33
<ogra>
i understand your intention
09:33
<vagrantc>
anyways ... back to merging
09:33
<ogra>
but i dont expect to have many changes to it after the first month
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09:36
<Drakeweb>
vagrantc: any thoughts? there don't seem to be any glaring errors or warnings?
09:37
<vagrantc>
Drakeweb: this is on ubuntu ?
09:37
<Drakeweb>
edubuntu, yep.
09:37* vagrantc looks at ogra
09:38
<vagrantc>
Drakeweb: nothing seems obvious to me ... ogra might have more of an idea what to try, being the edubuntu developer :)
09:38
<ogra>
x doesnt start ?
09:38* ogra didnt follow, sorry
09:38
<Drakeweb>
nope - gives a blank screen
09:39
<ogra>
try X_COLOR_DEPTH=24 in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
09:39
<Drakeweb>
got it at 16 at the moment
09:40
X_MODE_0 = 640X480
09:40
all blank.
09:40
can boot just the shell
09:40
<ogra>
did you try XSERVER=vesa ?
09:41
<Drakeweb>
yep
09:41
no dice.
09:41
people on the ltsp.org wiki say the eon works fine, but I think they're talking about 4.2
09:44
<ogra>
any cue which graphics card is in there ?
09:44
did you take a look at /var/log/Xorg.6.log ?
09:44
(on a running client)
09:44
s/cue/clue/
09:44
<Drakeweb>
there was no xorg.6.log
09:45
<vagrantc>
well, there probably was, you just couldn't log in and look at it ...
09:45
<ogra>
then X didnt start at all, thats kind of weird ... is there anything else in your lts.conf ?
09:45
<vagrantc>
ogra: i think X is failing in a way that makes the screen unuseable
09:45
<ogra>
oh
09:45
<vagrantc>
that's my hunch, anyways
09:45
<ogra>
do you see the bootsplash at all ?
09:47
<vagrantc>
ogra: hey, i actually did some testing of NBD the last few days ... seems like NBD + ext2 + bind mounts works on sid ...
09:47
<ogra>
cool
09:47
<Drakeweb>
yes, the edubuntu splash works fine
09:47
<vagrantc>
ogra: wasn't able to test with squashfs or unionfs because i didn't have the packages downloaded and no internet
09:47
<ogra>
so is there anything else in your lts.conf ?
09:48
<vagrantc>
ogra: it seems like nbd-client in etch is unstable
09:48
<Drakeweb>
then it disappears and nothing appears, then my LCD screen turns off with no signal
09:48
<ogra>
vagrantc, debian still uses unionfs 2.0
09:48
vagrantc, you wont make that work
09:48
<Drakeweb>
i added screen_07 = shell
09:48
<vagrantc>
ogra: sure, but at least i can see how NBD + squashfs + bind mounts ... or maybe try aufs
09:48
<Drakeweb>
at vagrant's recommendation
09:48
to get to the logs
09:48
<ogra>
yeah
09:49
but nothing else ?
09:49
<Drakeweb>
nowt
09:49
<vagrantc>
SCREEN_08=shell and SCREEN_07=ldm ... if you want to get it to try to start X again ...
09:49
<Drakeweb>
sorry, that's yorkshire for "no"
09:49
ok, hang on
09:50
<vagrantc>
i think i also had Drakeweb just manually try to start X from the shell on tty7 ... and it just blanked the screen
09:50
<Drakeweb>
i've currently got screen_02 = ldm and screen_07 = shell
09:50
and got a blank screen
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09:50
<vagrantc>
ogra: i'm leaning towards implementing all read-write mounting (unionfs or bind mounts) in the initramfs
09:51
<ogra>
unionfs already does it only from initramfs
09:51
<vagrantc>
sure
09:51
but i'm thinking about also doing the bind mount stuff in the initramfs ...
09:51
<ogra>
you still need parts in fstab though
09:51
<vagrantc>
nah
09:51
<ogra>
to make df and friends happy
09:51
<vagrantc>
at any rate ... i'll get it working :)
09:51
<ogra>
mount needs to give you a /
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09:52
<ogra>
then all is fine ...
09:52
(you can build unionfs mounts with / actually :) )
09:52
*without
09:52
<vagrantc>
ah, now i see what the default setting for SERVER failed when i did NBD + ext2 + bind mounts ... it assumes the /rofs dir
09:53
<ogra>
that was fixed a while ago
09:53
<vagrantc>
what was fixed a while ago ?
09:53
<ogra>
the SERVER stuff for nfs in the ubuntu root
09:53
oh, you talk about your tests :)
09:53
<vagrantc>
yes ... it makes assumtions about how NBD mount it set up ...
09:54
but definitely saw a speed improvement even with ext2
09:56
<cyberorg>
guys check out enhancement section here https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/kiwi-devel/2007-November/000252.html
09:56
the split image thing
09:56
<vagrantc>
split image?
09:56
cyberorg: when we gonna integrate your stuff into ltsp upstream?
09:57
<cyberorg>
i asked kiwi developer why he implemented own initrd thing and not use mkinitrd, his answer was to make it distro independent
09:57* ogra doesnt understand ... why dont you just split the kiwi script properly
09:58
<ogra>
just split it into server and client related pieces ... put the client pieces into an OpenSusE plugin dir for ltsp-build-client and package the server parts into an ltsp-server package
09:58
<cyberorg>
ogra, i have no idea what to do there, it is very simple function script and single script that builds and configures everything, we can use yast to configure easily
09:58
<wanie>
hi! can someone help me with the ltsp local devices support pleas? I did everything as it is in the instructions to ltsp.org. If Yast after a sound card searches, but failed to find in my thin client is a built...
09:59
<cyberorg>
there is no clear client and server distinction
09:59
<ogra>
it is
09:59
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: so put this "very simple script" into the upstream structure
09:59
<ogra>
in your script
09:59
<cyberorg>
that is why i want one of you guys to give it a try, so you can suggest exactly what i need to do
09:59* ogra suggests that split since a while now
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10:01
<cyberorg>
ogra, i hear you :) i fear it will complicate things for us, but try the install, it is 1-click to install all packages, and configuration file and one command
10:01
<ogra>
Drakeweb, pleasefind out what graphics card is in these clients
10:01
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: so, basically, you will be sharing no code with other ltsp implementations?
10:02
<ogra>
cyberorg, its the same in ubuntu or debian (and soon in fedora)
10:02
<Drakeweb>
ok, will do. I'll get the info and get bakc to you.
10:02
<ogra>
you install ltsp-server and run tsp-build-client
10:02
that will be the same on all ltsp5 capable distros
10:02
<Drakeweb>
gotta go ice-skating now, so it'll be later on
10:02
thanks
10:02
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, there is no extra code except for the scripts that call kiwi and configure dhcp, nbd, nfs etc
10:02
<ogra>
enjoy the ice :)
10:02
<Drakeweb>
no chance. I'm donig the "daddy" thing
10:03
rather be off the ice drinking hot chocolate ...
10:03
<ogra>
cyberorg, scripts that call kiwi --> client plugin, ... and configure dhcp, nbd, nfs etc --> server package
10:03
just make that split
10:03
they its easy to integrate
10:03
<cyberorg>
ogra, http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/server:/ltsp/openSUSE_10.3/src/ here is the split
10:03
<ogra>
*then
10:04
<cyberorg>
the scripts are part of kiwi-desc-ltsp package
10:04
ltsp-client package contains all the ltsp scripts
10:04
<vagrantc>
i mean, i think it's important to let distros do their own thing ... but as much as possible we should try to work towards a common codebase ... this just sounds *totally* different.
10:04
<ogra>
right, include the client parts of the kiwi desc scripts in ltsp-client
10:05
vagrantc, well, did you look at it
10:05
it isnt ... kiwi just replaces debootstrap and initramfs-tools on the client side ...
10:05
<vagrantc>
yeah, that's what it sounds like
10:05
<cyberorg>
building chroot, netboot image and setting up of server is totally non ltsp in there
10:05
<ogra>
but it also sets up the server side
10:06
so just removing the server side bits from the kiwi scripts would totally suffice
10:06* ogra doest get what so hard about that ... could have happened in the time this conversation took
10:07
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: that sounds a lot like that the upstream ltsp plugins ... you could easily drop that into the upstream structure .... ???
10:07
<cyberorg>
ogra, i am not sure how i would package it, as currently everything required is in one place kiwi-desc-ltsp and all the ltsp packages like ldm and ltspfs are tarballs from your bzr
10:09
<ogra>
and why not have kiwi-desc-ltsp-client and kiwi-desc-ltsp-server ? (if you even need the latter)
10:09
you will need that for ltspfs as well
10:09
(a package split)
10:10
<cyberorg>
ogra, ltspfs and ldm2 are their own package
10:10
<ogra>
ltspfs has a part that needs to be installed on the server
10:10
and one that needs to be in the client chroot
10:10
<cyberorg>
ogra, yes that is why you need to install our setup somewhere to understand how everything comes together
10:11
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/server:/ltsp/openSUSE_10.3/i586/ ltspfs package is split again
10:11
ltspfs is installed on the server and ltspfs-server is installed in chroot
10:12
<wanie>
hi! can someone help me with the ltsp local devices support pleas? I did everything as it is in the instructions to ltsp.org. If Yast after a sound card searches, but failed to find in my thin client is a built...
10:12
<ogra>
that looks better :)
10:13
<cyberorg>
most of the issues about the netboot, ro/rw etc are addressed by kiwi netboot image, and it is easy to implement on all distro as it uses smart apart from zypper as packagemanager
10:13
<ogra>
wanie, ltsp 4.2 or ltsp5 ?
10:13
there is no smart in ubuntu main
10:13
<wanie>
oh, sorry i have ltsp 4.2
10:14
<ogra>
wanie, well, then better wait for a 4.2 developer (they are rare nowadays)
10:14
<wanie>
on the server runns open suse 10.2 and the client is an igel
10:14
<cyberorg>
ogra, if smart and zypper can be implemented, i am sure it would be trivial to add another :)
10:14alkisg has joined #ltsp
10:15
<wanie>
ogra, ok thank you
10:15
<ogra>
cyberorg, if you could integrate it properly into the existing code ...
10:16
its really trivial
10:16
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: have you installed a debian or ubuntu system's ltsp ?
10:16
<cyberorg>
ogra, that is what i have been waiting for, the upstream structure to get in order :)
10:16
<ogra>
cyberorg, the structure didnt change
10:16
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, just edubuntu in vmware
10:16
<ogra>
we only removed the packaging dirs
10:16
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: and you understand how it works ?
10:17
<ogra>
and some apps that sit in their ownbranch now
10:17
but the code structure didnt and wont change
10:17* vagrantc pushed the merged changes from debian
10:17
<ogra>
YAY
10:17
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, i dont know how installation worked, but that is how i learnt what to implement in suse :)
10:17
<vagrantc>
warren: go to town :)
10:18
cyberorg: the installation is really simple ...
10:18* ogra curiously looks at revision 491
10:18
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, what i have tried to implement is even simpler, single command to configure *everything*
10:18
<ogra>
i wonder if that unintended linebreak causes our autologin to fail
10:19
<vagrantc>
ogra: there was a bug in the screen script ... when you set LDM_SERVER and /usr/lib/ltsp/get_hosts existed, LDM_SERVER would get set to SERVER
10:19
ogra: pretty simple fix, really.
10:19
<ogra>
oh, sigh
10:19* ogra pokes sbalneav in absence
10:20
<ogra>
he added get_hosts to the source but not to the .install file
10:20
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: and this is better because.... ?
10:20
ogra: i don't see an example get_hosts anywhere
10:20
<ogra>
hmm
10:20
<vagrantc>
ogra: by default, it's not installed ...
10:20
<ogra>
it should be in ldm2
10:20
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, anyone without the knowledge of how to setup dhcp, nfs, nbd, chroot, squashfs image etc can get it working in half and hour
10:22
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: it will take me a *long* time to get kiwi ported to any distro that doesn't already have it ... so how does this help all the other distros?
10:22
cyberorg: how does this integrate into other distros?
10:22
if we're going to work together on LTSP, we need to *try* to work together
10:23
rather than always running off in 100 different directions
10:23* ogra would love to see how that would handle debconf settings of packages to avoid questions on upgrades
10:23
<ogra>
i.e. dhcp or nfs :)
10:23
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, it is kept distro independent so porting doesnt have to be long hard work
10:24
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: the whole point of LTSP5 is to integrate *into* the distro, not be something you install on top of the distro
10:25* ogra adds a comment to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/161794 pointing to vagrantc's commit
10:25
<cyberorg>
implementation of building of chroot and and netboot will be different on different distros anyway, with kiwi that too can be avoided
10:25
<vagrantc>
ogra: i don't think it's related to autologin ...
10:25
<ogra>
cyberorg, i would love to see how kiwi uses the ubuntu kernel maintenance scripts to build a proper initramfs
10:26
<vagrantc>
ogra: autologin is just plain borked
10:26
<ogra>
vagrantc, LDM_SERVER is completely unset in gutsy ...
10:26
that means autologin goes nowhere
10:26
<cyberorg>
ogra, kiwi uses its own intrd scripts, not a single one from suse's mkinitrd
10:26
<ogra>
cyberorg, yes, but ubuntu kernels only work with initramfs-tools created initramfs
10:27
it simply wont boot if not the right pieces are in place
10:27
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: but the point of LTSP5 is to integrate into the distro ... use the distro's initrd generation ...
10:27
<ogra>
mkinitrd is no option at all in ubuntu
10:27
<cyberorg>
ogra, we dont use mkinitrd
10:27
<ogra>
or kiwiinitrd or whatever
10:28
kiwi would have to get integrated with the distro to achieve what you want
10:28
it wont work platform independent if it doesnt
10:28
<cyberorg>
ogra, yes that is true, i am not saying to change to kiwi immediately :) explore it
10:28
<ogra>
all it would do would be to create something monolithic thats the same on all distros ...
10:29
<cyberorg>
ogra, kiwi uses distro packages to create chroot and initrd
10:29
<ogra>
so it integrates initramfs-tools handling for ubuntu and debian or not ?
10:30
<cyberorg>
ogra, initramfs-tools == mkinitrd we dont use either
10:30
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: how do you click on the commandline?
10:30
<ogra>
well, then it wont be an ubuntu chroot
10:31
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, click?
10:31
<ogra>
since the kernel wont be an ubuntu one
10:31
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: you're saying it's a single click install .. ?
10:31
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, ah, you can use packagemanager to do that same thing at commandline
10:32
ogra, https://forgesvn1.novell.com/viewsvn/kiwi-ltsp/trunk/kiwi-netboot/suse-10.3-ltsp/config.xml?revision=50&view=markup
10:32
<ogra>
Secure Connection Failed
10:32
10:32
10:32
10:32
10:32
10:32
10:32
10:32
10:32
forgesvn1.novell.com uses an invalid security certificate.
10:32* ogra just loves firefox 3.0
10:32
<ogra>
*sigh*
10:33
<cyberorg>
that is config file where packages to be installed are listed, the packages come from distro's installation source
10:33
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: so, i guess what i'll say for the last time, is it seems like what you've got would be trivial to integrate into the existing ltsp infrastructure ... and it would be a hell of a lot easier for the rest of us to understand what it does if you take the time to integrate it into the existing codebase.
10:33
<ogra>
takes me a while i need to enable it in about:config ... FF 3 is very strict on invalid sec certs
10:34MasterOne has joined #ltsp
10:34
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, would any of you mind having a very close look at https://forgesvn1.novell.com/viewsvn/kiwi-ltsp/trunk/ and tell me what to put where and i'll rearrange the pieces
10:34
<ogra>
"<package name="mkinitrd"/>"
10:34
seems it uses plain mkinitrd
10:35Joe90 has joined #ltsp
10:35
<MasterOne>
is there any way, to do screen-rotation on the thin client (if the connected LCD supports pivot)?
10:35
<vagrantc>
yeah, but mkinitrd in fedora generates an initramfs image ... i wouldn't take a package name as really saying much about what technology it's actually using
10:36
cyberorg: having no idea what any of it does, no.
10:36
<ogra>
MasterOne, i'm not sure xrandr works on remote displays ... just try it ?
10:36
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, that is why i have requested you guys to at least install it once
10:37
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: i really don't have the free time or spare machines to install suse
10:37
<ogra>
same here ...
10:37
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: i think the impetus is on the new distro to integrate into ltsp ... i can conceptually explain what needs to go where ...
10:37
<ogra>
actually my ltsp time was reduced to 1/3 for ubuntu even
10:37
<vagrantc>
!integration
10:37
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "integration" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/IntegratingLtsp
10:38
<vagrantc>
a little out of date, but basically still applies
10:38
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, i have split all the folders as close to what i thought you would need https://forgesvn1.novell.com/viewsvn/kiwi-ltsp/trunk/
10:39* ogra ponders to roll a first snapshot tarball
10:39
<vagrantc>
ogra: 5.1rc1 ?
10:39
<ogra>
yeah
10:39
i need some code in the distro asap
10:39
<MasterOne>
ogra, I am trying to figure out, if this is going to work somehow, I am just doing a new ltsp server setup, and I don't have a thin client connected yet, and I also have no screen yet that supports pivot. I know it has to do with xrandr, but how can you change the Xserver settings on the thin client on the fly, since logged into the server, you can not access the Xserver running on the client. or can this be managed with local app
10:39
s somehow?
10:40
<vagrantc>
ogra: yeah
10:40
<ogra>
dec 13th is upstream freeze
10:40
<vagrantc>
eeyk.
10:41
cyberorg: how big is the subversion checkout ?
10:41
<ogra>
MasterOne, try it out i suspet it works (composite works, why shouldnt the rest of xranrd :) )
10:41
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, 18mb here, as it also contains some rpms
10:42
<ogra>
woah
10:42
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: you've checked rpms into subversion?
10:42
<cyberorg>
1.2 mb if you checkout just kiwi-ltsp folder
10:42
<ogra>
even if i package the bzr tree with it i dont get ltsp over 2M
10:42
the actual source is 250k or so
10:42
<stgraber>
ogra: while you are around, what's the clean way to ask the system to shutdown from gnome using command line (I want the same action as using the logout box) ?
10:43
<ogra>
i suspect now we dropped the debian dir even only 200k
10:43
<vagrantc>
well, with ldm and all those pesky ubuntu themes ... it's like 2.2MB of source :P
10:43
<ogra>
stgraber, well, thats donte through a GDM call
10:43
vagrantc, including bzr :)
10:43
<cyberorg>
1.2 includes all the rpms, including ldm2
10:43
<MasterOne>
ogra, is there any more info available about composite working on the thin client? also, how would you let xorg rotate the screen, as it doesn't know, when you actually pivot the LCD
10:43
<ogra>
if you bzr export it its shriks significantly
10:44
MasterOne, i only saw it working yet with i810 cards
10:44
<stgraber>
hmm, that's bad, and I suspect we won't have some kind of shell command doing the shutdown/reboot either with LTSP's local apps (on thin clients) or using GDM on local machines ?
10:44
<cliebow>
wanie: what areyou trying to get working??
10:44
<ogra>
using XSERVER=i810 and installing 915resolution in the chroot
10:44
<MasterOne>
ogra, is there any specific info about that on the net somewhere?
10:44
<cyberorg>
svn checkout https://forgesvn1.novell.com/svn/kiwi-ltsp/trunk/kiwi-ltsp is 1.2mb with all the rpms
10:44
<stgraber>
I'm trying to find the right commands to map shutdown and reboot of iTalc, currently it's gnome session logout
10:44
<ogra>
MasterOne, i dont think so
10:45
stgraber, well, pmi once provided that function
10:46
you could write a little C wrapper that works like the GDM one
10:47
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: i can't make any sense of this stuff
10:47
<stgraber>
hmm, so for now I'll be using gdm-signal but I'll have to make sure someone on a thin client can't shutdown the server :)
10:47
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: i really think it will be easier to explain what goes into ltsp upstream than for you to explain how kiwi-ltsp works
10:48
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, kiwi-ltsp-setup is the script that does everything, kiwi-ltsp is config for kiwi-ltsp, kiwi-ltsp-functions.sh is functions for the script
10:48
<ogra>
stgraber, ther should also be a way by using libpam-foreground or consolekit ... but we dont install the latter (yet) in chroots
10:48
<wanie>
cliebow, i just tryed to configurate the sound kart with yast
10:48
<cyberorg>
rest is all kiwi thing
10:49
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: and it's a bunch of functions that are unfamiliar to me ...
10:50
<stgraber>
ogra: ok, so I'll be using gnome-session-save for logout and gdm-signal for shutdown/reboot and look for equivalent in kde, then once we have localapps working will work on a frontend for that (ideally we could use it to have a complete logout box)
10:50
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, there are a couple of functions that build netboot and chroot image and rest does all the server setup like dhcp, nbd, nfs etc
10:50
<stgraber>
ogra: did you receive the mail I forwarded to you ?
10:51* ogra just noticed he didnt recieve any mail today ...
10:51
<ogra>
gah
10:51
314 piled up
10:51
<wanie>
cliebow, I just noticed it in my lts.conf the entry SOUND = Y is missing ... This is probably the error or?
10:51
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: so ... the stuff that builds the chroot should go into /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/$(lsb_release --short --id)
10:52
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, ok, i'll do that right away
10:52
<Joe90>
Anyone out there willing to help with my client booting problems (continued from last weekend)??? Ubuntu 7.10, DCHP seems fine, just not laoding kernel?
10:52
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: lsb_release --short -id should probably report something like Suse or OpenSuse or something ...
10:52
<cyberorg>
SUSE LINUX
10:52
<vagrantc>
with a space? eeyk.
10:53
<cyberorg>
yes :)
10:53
<ogra>
omg
10:53
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: do you have a run-parts command ?
10:53
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, nope
10:53MasterOne has quit IRC
10:53
<cyberorg>
what does it do?
10:54
can we just put it as /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/opensuse ?
10:54
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: well, we wanted to use lsb_release as a distro-independent tool
10:54
cyberorg: but you can implement whatever crazy hacks you want
10:54
:)
10:54
<ogra>
stgraber, 1-4 weeks sounds good :)
10:55
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: run-parts basically looks in a directory for files to include ...
10:55
<ogra>
we'll need to have the fixes in debian patches though
10:55
since he talks about 1.0.4
10:55
<cyberorg>
Dlsb_release -d is escription: openSUSE 10.3 (i586)
10:56
<cliebow>
wanie:yeah...
10:56
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: i.e. run-parts --list /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/DISTRO
10:56
<stgraber>
ogra: yes, what's the proper way to include it into Ubuntu ? Package current SVN + upload in Universe, write the MIR, then upload the 1.0.4 one into main ? or simply wait for the official 1.0.4 to be ready
10:56
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: should return a list of files in that directory ... excluding certain files ...
10:56
<cliebow>
wanie:sound is pretty challenging inltsp4.2
10:56
<ogra>
stgraber, better to wait for 1.0.4 to go into universe
10:56
<stgraber>
ogra: I have added dpatch to the initial packaging so I'm already using patches in debian/
10:57
<ogra>
then add your patches and have the MIR
10:57
<Joe90>
Client stalls at "Loading [Server IP Address]:/ltsp/i386/nbi.img No firewall, file is in tftpboot. How to debug from here?
10:57
<stgraber>
ok, so now I'm basically just for the 1.0.4 to be release
10:57
<ogra>
Joe90, you only have one single DHCP server in your network ?
10:58
nothing that runs on a DSL router or so ?
10:58
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, No results found for "run-part" in openSUSE_103
10:58
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: we'll probably have to use a functiona and some distros will have to implement it ...
10:58
cyberorg: fairly simple code really
10:59
<wanie>
cliebow, is it better in ltsp5?
10:59
<Joe90>
Yes. Config as follows; eth0 connected via switch to client, eth1 (wireless) connected to BB router. Eth1 gets IP from Router, eth0 static
10:59
<cliebow>
sure is..you running buntu/debian??
10:59
<cyberorg>
!/bin/bash
10:59
<ltspbot>
cyberorg: Error: "/bin/bash" is not a valid command.
10:59
<cyberorg>
kiwi-ltsp-setup -a
11:00
vagrantc, that is what will build the chroot and tftp netboot image
11:00
can i put that in /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/
11:00
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: well, i recommend building the netboot images inside the build chroot
11:01
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, we are using kiwi for netboot?
11:01
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: so use kiwi inside the chroot ?
11:02
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, kiwi doesnt need to use chroot to build boot image, system image and boot images are built independently
11:02
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: how do you build an image for a different architecture?
11:02
<cyberorg>
system image has its own initrd that is built by using mkinitrd as ogra spotted :)
11:03
<vagrantc>
the chroot should be self-contained ... in that you could move it to another server and it has everything needed.
11:03
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, it is self contained
11:03wanie has quit IRC
11:03
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: but you told me you build the netboot images on the server ?
11:03
<cyberorg>
we can even install the same image on a live CD or a usb stick or vmware image
11:04
vagrantc, yes, one system image can have different types of boot image depending on where you want to install them
11:05
<vagrantc>
well, whatever. i think it would be better to build everything client-side inside the chroot, and everything server-side on the server.
11:05
but do what you will.
11:05
<Joe90>
How can I check if the tftp configuration is correct and/or working?
11:06
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, we are planning usb disk installed ltsp image, should be done soon
11:06
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: how does that change where you build the image?
11:07
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, boot images are just different image than the chroot, kiwi-desc-ltsp builds ltsp chroot and kiwi-desc-netboot builds netboot
11:07
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: the first step i would recommend ... it just take whatever commandline commands you currently run, and stick them into a script in the plugins directory
11:07
<cyberorg>
netboot can be used for any other purpose
11:07
<vagrantc>
so install whatever kiwi-desc-FOO inside the chroot and run kiwi there ... ?
11:08
i've said my opinion...
11:08
not going to keep saying it
11:09
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, that is what kiwi does, creates chroot and runs its foo and builds squashfs and nfsroot image
11:09
<cliebow>
Jo90: why not run tcpdump if you can read it...or wireshark on the server?
11:09
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: so put a plugin in that directory
11:09
cyberorg: that calls kiwi
11:10
<cyberorg>
kiwi-ltsp-setup -a in /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/ right?
11:10
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: you can work on splitting it out into more parts later if you want.
11:10
cyberorg: sure, something like that ...
11:10
cyberorg: though you'll want to wrap it into a case statement so it only gets called once
11:11
cyberorg: ta-da. that's it. at least for now :)
11:12
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, it will run only once
11:12
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: if you don't put it in a case statement, ltsp-build-client will run call that code about 6-10 times.
11:12
<cyberorg>
kiwi creates a lock file while it is running
11:13
<vagrantc>
as described on the ltsp integration wiki page
11:14
cyberorg: so you'll want something like
11:14
case $MODE in
11:14
install) kiwi-ltsp-setup -a ;;
11:14
esac
11:15
<cyberorg>
so we run ltsp-build-client install ?
11:15
<vagrantc>
ltsp-build-client
11:15
<cyberorg>
where does $MODE come from
11:15
<vagrantc>
but you'll need to implement run-parts or something like that
11:15
from ltsp-build-client
11:15
!integration
11:15
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "integration" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/IntegratingLtsp
11:16
<Joe90>
cliebow: what exactly am I looking for with tcpdump, in particular any flags I should be using???
11:16
<cyberorg>
i have that opened :)
11:16
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: search for "plugins"
11:17
<cyberorg>
ok, so i put numbered sequence of commands that we need to run?
11:18
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: still got your vmware edubuntu install ?
11:18
cyberorg: ls /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/*
11:18
<cyberorg>
i am looking at ltsp-build-client/Fedora it has just one file in there
11:18
<vagrantc>
where are you looking ?
11:19
<cyberorg>
vagrant-fedora/server/plugins
11:19
<vagrantc>
ah, yes.
11:19
<cliebow>
Joe96:with wireshark you can identify and examine in detail each packet..as each is identified by protocol...
11:20
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: yeah, that was my quick and dirty attempt to get it rolling on fedora ... i would probably have split that into a 2-3 plugins ...
11:21
cyberorg: if you look in the debian dir ... there's a lot of plugins ... many of which are just to set some commandline options
11:22
<cyberorg>
http://pastebin.ca/796983 is suse's plugin
11:22
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: looks good
11:22
<cyberorg>
what else is required?
11:23
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: if there's other commandline options you'd want to set some variables ... like maybe KIWI_LTSP_OPTS
11:23
<Joe90>
Installing wireshark now
11:23
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, everything is done in /etc/sysconfig/kiwi-ltsp
11:23
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: so you can't build multiple chroots with different options?
11:25
<cyberorg>
vagrantc, yes we can, we would need to change /etc/sysconfig/kiwi-ltsp file
11:25
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: well, at any rate ...
11:25
<cyberorg>
that file is kept there as yast automatically finds it and offers GUI to configure that
11:25
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: sounds like you have a plugin, and all you need now is to get a run_parts implementation
11:26wanie has joined #ltsp
11:26
<cyberorg>
where do i find it?
11:26alkisg has left #ltsp
11:26
<vagrantc>
run_parts() {
11:26
<Joe90>
There would seem to be zero activity on eth0, shouldn't the cleint atleast be trying to get the kernel via tftp
11:26
<vagrantc>
ls $2
11:26
}
11:27
cyberorg: that's what i did for a crude run_parts for fedora ...
11:27
<cyberorg>
is that it? i can include that in my package
11:27
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: it would be good to make it slightly more complicated, but the basic idea, sure.
11:28
<cyberorg>
i am trying to make things simpler here :P
11:29
<vagrantc>
well, you'll want to exclude things like backup files and such
11:30
current upstream just assumes a run-parts that supports the --list command, which works on debian and ubuntu, but fedora's run-parts doesn't.
11:30
<wanie>
cliebow, wich sound module have to be in the file lts.conf? actually i have oss and there was fail to load this module...
11:30
<vagrantc>
so we probably need to set up a function in upstream ltsp that can work the same across all distros ...
11:31
<cyberorg>
lsb_release -d | cut -d ":" -f 2 | cut -d " " -f 1 gives openSUSE
11:32
<vagrantc>
gross.
11:33
cyberorg: don't you have --short ?
11:33
<Joe90>
cliebow: Wireshark showing packets being sent from client ( protocol ARP). Can't really interpret anything I am seeing, shouldn't I be seeing something re: TFTP
11:34
Server MAC address showing all zero's. Is this an issue?
11:34
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: well, the proper thing to use is lsb_release --short --id
11:35
mangling the other fields is just going to be a headache ...
11:36
probably could do something like: lsb_release --short --id | tr " \t" "_"
11:36
to handle whitespace
11:39
<Joe90>
Could this have anything to do with IPv4 versus IPv6???
11:40
<vagrantc>
cyberorg: is opensuse really close to "suse linux" ?
11:41
cyberorg: if they're very different, your lsb_release might need to be fixed
11:42
<ogra>
vagrantc, you could ask wanie to run lsb_release for you :)
11:42
he's on 10.3 or so
11:43
<wanie>
10.2
11:43
;)
11:43
<ogra>
SLES ?
11:43
or SLED ?
11:43
or also opensuse ?
11:43vmu has joined #ltsp
11:43
<wanie>
opensuse
11:43
<ogra>
ah, ok that wont hep then i guess
11:43
*help
11:44
<Joe90>
Does the client need access to the Server MAC address/
11:44
<ogra>
Joe90, nope
11:44
well, the last hop on your ethernet does though :)
11:44
<vmu>
Has anyone an idea, wehen gentoo will introduce 5.0?
11:45
<ogra>
vmu, ask dberkholz :)
11:45
vmu, but it shouldnt be a big prob to use the ubuntu or debian images/tarballs
11:45
just some manual fiddling on the server side ...
11:46
<vmu>
using gentoo, you get accustomed to manual fiddling while configuring your system ...
11:46
<ogra>
and i'm sure donnie would appreciate any help he can get its on hold since quite some time due to time contraints :)
11:47* ogra doesnt know where the code is though, you'd have to ask
11:49
<vagrantc>
of all the distros to incorporate LTSP ... i'm really surprised gentoo isn't finished ... so many people who like tinkering and fiddling with things ...
11:49
<ogra>
yeah
11:49
well, not much to compile
11:50rcc has joined #ltsp
11:50* ogra always suspected gentoo users just find compiler messages sexy
11:50
<ogra>
not the actual hacking :)
11:50
<rjune>
it's like porn for them
11:50
<ogra>
well, it can get you through the night :)
11:50BGomes has joined #ltsp
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11:51* vagrantc finds compiler messages rather unpleasant
11:51
<ogra>
i find them only intrestig if they fail :)
11:51
<vagrantc>
heh
11:52
<ogra>
and thats something they can even do without me watching :)
11:52
<vagrantc>
i find them annoying and frustrating when they fail
11:52
<ogra>
see it as a challeng :)
11:52
+e
11:53
<vagrantc>
i managed to hack up lbmount.c :)
11:53
<ogra>
cool
11:53
still safe ?
11:53
<vagrantc>
that's probably the most c i've messed with ever
11:54
well, that's to be decided ...
11:54
<ogra>
heh
11:54
<vagrantc>
i removed all the bind mounting ... but it gives the user's group write permission
11:54
i.e. /media/USERNAME is g+w
11:54
<ogra>
which group ?
11:54
USERNAME ?
11:54
or users
11:54
<vagrantc>
whatever USERNAME's default group is
11:54
<ogra>
ah, nice
11:55
that should work well
11:55
<vagrantc>
i think, if we wanted, could even make it so only /media/USERNAME/MOUNT was g+w
11:55
<ogra>
isnt that inherited ?
11:55
ah no, its a new mountpint
11:57
<vagrantc>
with my new patch, /media/USERNAME is g+w and /media/UESRNAME/MOUNT is g+w ... and then you can mount ltspfs on top of /media/USERNAME/MOUNT which then gets the really restrictive fuse permissions...
11:57
scripts/ltspfsmounter | 37 +++++++++-------------------
11:57
src/lbmount.c | 64 ++------------------------------------------------
11:57
2 files changed, 15 insertions(+), 86 deletions(-)
11:58
look at all those deletions on a setuid root binary :)
11:58
<ogra>
looks fine (without seeing the actual diff)
11:58
<vagrantc>
heh
11:58
basically, reverses the order of the lbmount / ltspfs mount calls ... so first create the directory, then mount it ... then umount it and remove the directory
11:58
<ogra>
btw did you notice bzr+ssh:// being a lot faster than sftp:// ?
11:59
<vagrantc>
whoah. i didn't even notice
11:59
<ogra>
(about twice as fast for me here)
11:59
<vagrantc>
nice
11:59
that's using a smartserver of some sort?
11:59
<ogra>
no, that would be lp:// (for pushing)
11:59
but only works with launchpad
12:00
<vagrantc>
when was bzr+ssh introduced?
12:00
<ogra>
no idea
12:00
i just noticed it when i created the upstream branch
12:00
i saw the speed of lp:// in boston though
12:00
its stunningly fast
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12:03
<vagrantc>
ogra: ah, it requires a compatible bzr on the other end, though
12:03
<ogra>
ah
12:03* ogra didnt know ...
12:03
<ogra>
i'm just using whats in ubuntu :)
12:03
<vagrantc>
that's the nice thing about sftp ... it just plain works anywhere, even if it's slow
12:04
<ogra>
yep
12:04
well, you could also tar up your branch and upload it :)
12:04
<vagrantc>
i like slow, stupid and compatible ... at least with vcs
12:04
tarring it up is too error prone
12:04
<ogra>
thats stupind and extremly compatible :)
12:04
<vagrantc>
well, sure. sftp is a good middle ground
12:05
<ogra>
yup
12:05
<vagrantc>
tarring it up doesn't work so well using shared revision repositories or whatever they're called
12:08
finally, a debian ltsp build for powerpc ... now let's wait 3-4 days to see it uploaded ...
12:11* ogra needs to go offline for a oment ... back in 30 min or so
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12:17
<rjune>
anybody know how to start a program in perl and open stdin for t he program as a file?
12:29
<stgraber>
rjune: http://stgraber.pastebin.com/f3d742e27
12:30
rjune: simply show line by line what's received from stdin + add a line count value at the beginning of the line
12:45
<Joris>
I really fubar'd my tftp config :/
12:45
upgraded from edubuntu 6.06 to 7.10
12:46
my 'new' tftp root is not capable of booting clients
12:46
can I rebuild it or something?
12:48
<vagrantc>
Joris: ltsp-update-kernels should fix it ...
12:54
oh wait ... maybe 6.06 did it completely differently ...
12:54
Joris: you're probably better off regenerating the whole /opt/ltsp/ARCH directory ...
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13:41
<Joe90>
Problem with client booting: Is there a possible conflict between ipv4(client) and ipv6(server)?
13:44
<rjune>
stgraber: thanks, I tried that, mailx seems to screw up the message if it's multline and piped to it.
13:45
echo "foo" | mailx user@domain is fine.
13:45
but cat foo.txt | mailx user@domain doesn't work right if foo is multiline
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14:02
<Joe90>
Anyone out there willing to help out a very frustrated beginner (begin-again-er). Desperately need some direction!
14:03
I think I may have a very simple networking problem somewhere, but dont know where
14:04
When I boot client, DHCP seems to work, but after that client just keeps making an ARP request WHOIS: [Server IP address] and doesn't get a reply.
14:05
As far as I can tell, all necessary .conf files are ok, but who knows?
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14:47
<Joe90>
Hello, anyone? Need help badly. LTSP 5.0 / Ubuntu 7.10 / i386 client / DHOP conf. ok Loading and then nothing :(
14:49
<dberkholz>
vmu: do you want to help with the gentoo port? you'll need strong shell scripting, and you'll have to learn how to write gentoo init scripts
14:50
<johnny>
you need to give some more details Joe90
14:50
make sure your dhcpd is really started
14:51
<Joe90>
Johnny: Client gets IP address form server and path to image file, begins loading and then stalls;
14:51vmu has quit IRC
14:52
<johnny>
stalls how?
14:53
<Joe90>
Says "Loading [Server IP address]:/ltsp/i386/nbi.img" but does nothing after that. I used wireshark to observe packet transfer. Seems client is sending ARP requests but with no reply
14:58vagrantc_ has joined #ltsp
14:59
<Joe90>
I have 30 minutes to solve this thing, or wait until mid-dec. want to get a client running for my kids before Christmas.
15:04
<johnny>
hmm.. uhmm.. firewall?
15:05
<Joe90>
I have switched firewall off (as far as I can tell). Is there a fast way to stop all possible firewalls?
15:06
Switched off using firestarter but haven't done anything with iptables/ipchains
15:10
<vagrantc_>
iptables -L -n
15:10
just in case there are leftover rules from the firewalling
15:11
<Joe90>
Reboot???
15:12
<johnny>
no
15:13
<Joe90>
Done - No change
15:15vagrantc has quit IRC
15:17
<Joe90>
(15 mins. to go) Wireshark shows client requesting Who has [server address] but is obviously not getting any reaction for the server. Also shows MAC address of server as all 00: Is this a clash of IPv4 versus IPv6
15:26* vagrantc_ wonders how to do "test -w" in python
15:27
<Joe90>
wireshark shows following : 11 1429.637174 D-Link_26:36:4b Broadcast ARP Who has 192.168.0.140? Tell 192.168.0.250
15:27
It sends this request continuously without reply from the server [192.168.0.140]
15:28
<johnny>
you sure dhcp is started on the server?
15:29
<vagrantc_>
sounds like Joe90 is getting a dhcp response ...
15:29
seeing as it gets an ip address ...
15:29
<Joe90>
If DHCP hadn't started on the server, how would the client have the server address and have received the correct root path?
15:29
<johnny>
aha.. duh
15:29
<vagrantc_>
Joe90: you sure you don't have another dhcp server on the same network?
15:30
<Joe90>
I presume its not the same n/w. Eth1 gets its IP from DHCP on BB router
15:31
<Drakeweb>
hey
15:31
vagrantc_: you there?
15:32
<vagrantc_>
Drakeweb: don't bother to ask if i'm here, please just start asking questions :P
15:32
that way, if i'm not here, and someone else knows the answer, you still get help.
15:32
<Drakeweb>
sorry - still a bit new ...
15:32
<vagrantc_>
(presuming the other person is nice)
15:32
<Drakeweb>
was chatting with ogra earlier about trouble with my eon 4000
15:33
and he asked what video card /chip it possessed
15:33
<vagrantc_>
otherwise, you might wait 40 minutes for me to say i'm here ... and maybe you're gone ... and i have no idea what you wanted to talk about :)
15:33
<Joe90>
To clarify, Ltsp server on eth0 through switch to client, Server connected via eth1 (wireless) to BB router
15:33
<Drakeweb>
does ICA 6 mean anything to you?
15:33wanie has quit IRC
15:33
<vagrantc_>
ICA 6 means very little to me
15:33
<stgraber>
Joe90: ok, so you have eth1 connected to the net (what's its IP?) and eth0 connected to the LAN (what's its IP?) and you don't get ARP answer
15:34
<Drakeweb>
i have found reasonably detailed specs, but they don't mention the video chip, just its capabilities.
15:34
<vagrantc_>
Drakeweb: can you do lspci from the thin client ? (i.e. from SCREEN_XX=shell)
15:34
<stgraber>
Joe90: so first, please check that both WAN and LAN IP aren't in the same network (192.168.x.0), then did you try pinging your server with a laptop or any other computer connected on the switch ?
15:34
<Drakeweb>
hmmm, that sounds like a good idea. let me see ...
15:34
<vagrantc_>
Drakeweb: lspci | grep VGA
15:34
<stgraber>
Joe90: does that work ? if yes, then the server correctly answers arp
15:35wanie has joined #ltsp
15:38
<Drakeweb>
cyrix corporation 5530 video [kahlua]
15:39
<vagrantc_>
Drakeweb: and if i remember correctly, it was trying the cyrix chipset in X V?
15:39
s,V,,g
15:39
<Drakeweb>
sorry?
15:39
<Joe90>
stgraber, The networks are different i.e. 192.168.0.xx is ltsp and 192.168.1.xx is net. I am going to boot the client to FC4 and see if I can ping the server from there. Can you tell me the exact command line command?
15:39
<vagrantc_>
Drakeweb: when you looked up Xorg.1.log ... ?
15:40
<Drakeweb>
should i tell lts.conf XSERVER=cyrix?
15:41
<stgraber>
Joe90: just try : ping 192.168.0.xx
15:42
<Drakeweb>
it said "chipset mediagx found"
15:42
which is cyrix
15:43
<stgraber>
Joe90: if you get a response from the server, then that means it receive the ARP answer and was able to send the PING to that MAC address, if you don't one of the NIC is certainly the problem (or eventually the switch)
15:45
<Joe90>
stgraber, to connect the server directly to the client do I need a cross-over cable?
15:47
<stgraber>
yes
15:50
<Joe90>
stgraber,
15:50
st
15:50
<vagrantc_>
Drakeweb: i think it already detected the chipset as cyrix ...
15:50
Drakeweb: so forcing the chipset to cyrix isn't going to change much
15:50
Drakeweb: but go ahead and try ...
15:50
Drakeweb: did you also try XSERVER=vesa ?
15:51
<Joe90>
stgraber, just connected server and client directly via crossover - exactly the same result?
15:51
<Drakeweb>
darn - tried 'em both to no avail. The bugger still refuses to go GUI on me ...
15:52
<stgraber>
hmm, so you have your IPs correctly set both side and still unable to ping ?? that would mean one of the NIC is defect
15:53
first, are the LEDs blinking on both network card ?
15:55
<Joe90>
They are both on (green) if that s what you mean
15:56
Yes, and blinking#
15:57
Dont know if related, but FC4 is sending out same arp requests and is jamming at boot
15:57
<vagrantc_>
Drakeweb: can you boot an ubuntu live CD or something like that?
15:58
<Drakeweb>
on the client? nope. it's a true thin client - no CD, and won't boot from USB
15:59bobby_C has quit IRC
16:00
<vagrantc_>
Drakeweb: and you've seen it run a GUI ... ?
16:00
Drakeweb: ever?
16:01
<Drakeweb>
yeh, the original OS is on flash and it works fine.
16:01
booting to a network manager
16:02
<vagrantc_>
and the original OS is ... ?
16:03
<Drakeweb>
erm, Neolinux, I think
16:03
<Joe90>
One last try - Ubuntu Live CD, try to ping server - if nothing happens - give up
16:03
<johnny>
you give up to easily :)
16:04
<Joe90>
Bummer - live CD is 64bit, client is 32!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Goodnight
16:06
<vagrantc_>
Drakeweb: can you get to a shell on that and see how they've configured X ? (if it uses X at all)
16:14Joe90 has quit IRC
16:31
<Drakeweb>
gonna call it a night! thanks vagrantc_
16:35
<mathesis>
se vagrantc_
16:35
como estas
16:36wanie has quit IRC
16:36
<mathesis>
yoi have debian testing?
16:38
<vagrantc_>
mathesis: what do you mean?
16:39
<mathesis>
you has install debian tenstig or etch?
16:39
<vagrantc_>
i usually test on etch, lenny and sid ...
16:39
mathesis: the version currently in lenny is pretty old
16:39
the version in etch is really old ... but there's backports
16:40
and the version in sid should work fine in lenny
16:40
<mathesis>
you do recommend install lenny for ltsp?
16:40
i need install ltsp
16:41
<vagrantc_>
if you don't want to test the new stuff, i'd recommend etch with the ltsp backports
16:41Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC
16:42
<vagrantc_>
running testing, unless you really want to do software testing, is constantly changing and may be broken on any given day
16:43
that reminds me... i haven't moved the new etch backports into place yet...
16:43
<mathesis>
vagrantc_, tu me recomiendas hacerlo en debian tetch?
16:44
<vagrantc_>
mathesis: si, con nuevo verciones de ltsp
16:44
<mathesis>
instale debian testing "lenny"
16:44
vagrantc_, ncesitare regresar a debian etch
16:44
<vagrantc_>
lenny, no ...
16:45
mathesis: ah ... se tu quieres ... pero todo los dias nuevo paquettes para lenny
16:45
<mathesis>
si vdd
16:45
cierto
16:46
<vagrantc_>
es dependiente que tu quieres
16:47
<mathesis>
aptitude install ltsp-server-standalone
16:47
¿?
16:47
or aptitude install ltsp-server
16:49zodman has quit IRC
16:52
<vagrantc_>
mathesis: solo tienes un servidor?
16:52
<mathesis>
si
16:52
<vagrantc_>
ltsp-server-standalone
16:57
<mathesis>
vagrantc_, mira http://pastebin.ca/797356
17:00
<vagrantc_>
mathesis: esta bien, pero la vercion de ltsp es viejo
17:00
mathesis: usa la vercion de sid ...
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17:11
<wanie>
hi! can someone help me pleas, i try to use the sound card that is in my thin client
17:12
<vagrantc_>
yay
17:12
<wanie>
i have ltsp4.2, and in my lts.conf is the entry: SMODULE = sb
17:12
<vagrantc_>
NBD+squashfs+unionfs seems to be working just fine on sid
17:13
<wanie>
when the client is booting i can read the message Error inserting sb (/lib/modules/2.6.18.2-34-default/kernel/sound/oss/sb.ko): No such device
17:18
<mathesis>
modprobe sb
17:19
<wanie>
brings the same messages
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18:30
<mathesis>
ltsp-build-client --mirror httt:// ?
18:30
vagrantc_, cual es tu mirror?
18:30
<vagrantc_>
mathesis: http://mirrors.kernel.org/debian
18:31
mathesis: pero, necesita usa los paquettes de ltsp para sid
18:31
<mathesis>
yo no tengo si
18:31
i have lenny
18:32
there is package for lenny
18:32
<vagrantc_>
yes, but it isn't very good
18:32
the packages from sid should work on lenny
18:32
<mathesis>
ok
18:32
how can i use packages debian sid?
18:33
<vagrantc_>
mathesis: un momento
18:33
<mathesis>
http://ftp.fr.debian.org/debian/ sid
18:38
watch http://pastebin.ca/797456
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18:49
<mathesis>
ping vagrantc_
18:49
<vagrantc_>
mathesis: trabajo para ti
18:49
trabajando ?
18:49
<mathesis>
ja ja ja
18:49
sorry
18:54
<vagrantc_>
mathesis: en 5 o 10 minutos ... usa --extra-mirror 'http://pkg-ltsp.alioth.debian.org/debian sid-ltsp main'
18:56
mathesis: tambien ... wget http://pkg-ltsp.alioth.debian.org/debian/pkg-ltsp-keyring ; apt-key add pkg-ltsp-keyring
19:01
<mathesis>
voy a cenar
19:01
i back in 1 hr
19:02cliebow has quit IRC
19:04
<vagrantc_>
mathesis: listo
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22:19
<jammcq_>
hey all
22:21* vagrantc_ waves
22:21
<jammcq_>
hey vagrantc_ how goes it?
22:21jammcq has quit IRC
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22:21
<jammcq>
ah, feels better
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23:38
<cyberorg>
vagrantc_, sorry i got disconnected yesterday, internet trouble, i'll try and get plugin thing ready today
23:45
<vagrantc_>
jammcq: heh. apparently i'm not paying attention
23:45
jammcq: had some good ltsp coding ...
23:46
been writing a script to generate an etherboot cd and/or floppy