IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 28 August 2009   (all times are UTC)

00:00
<vagrantc>
rm-rf: you'd have to update dhcpd.conf, set up tftp to boot the different kernel, and configure NBD or NFS to export the new location.
00:00
rm-rf: why do you want to? might be an easier way to do what you're trying to do.
00:00
<Dalik>
hmmm sorry I have one thing I just ntoiced. I checked the initfs.img with the provided command and I see the e1000e-ich9m.ko driver but the path is not the same as the other net drivers.
00:01
<rm-rf>
ah, that's where the bitch would come in, reconfiguring nbd to export the new location
00:01
<Dalik>
cpio: lib/modules/2.6.24-24-generic/ubuntu/net/e1000e-ich9m/e1000e-ich9m.ko not created: newer or same age version exists
00:01
cpio: lib/modules/2.6.24-24-generic/kernel/drivers/net/r8169.ko not created: newer or same age version exists
00:01
<vagrantc>
rm-rf: not that hard, but kind of a pain.
00:01
<Dalik>
not sure if that would make a differece
00:01
<rm-rf>
i want to have some clients boot screen_07 directly to an rdp session, while have others that aren't specified boot to ldm
00:02
<vagrantc>
Dalik: not sure what you're actually saying...
00:02
rm-rf: just use lts.conf for that.
00:02
<rm-rf>
i can specify hosts in there?
00:02
<vagrantc>
rm-rf: yes.
00:02
!lts.conf
00:02
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "lts.conf" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtsConf
00:03
<rm-rf>
danke
00:03
<vagrantc>
de nada
00:03
<rm-rf>
that's most excellent, and removes about 99% of the work i thought i had ahead of me
00:03
<Dalik>
cd $(mktemp -d) ; zcat /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/initrd.img | cpio -i produces a nice list of drivers and one of the new drivers I added with the process you gave me provides one new driver BUT the path is not the same as the other net drivers
00:03
<rm-rf>
thanks again
00:04
<vagrantc>
rm-rf: yeah, it's really just a configuration option :)
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01:52
<vlt>
Hello. Can I have more than one "LIKE = ..." entries in lts.conf?
01:52
Or can I override one of the settings by adding a new option after a LIKE line?
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02:20
<alkisg>
vlt: go to http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtsConf and search for ws001
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02:47
<vlt>
alkisg: Thank you. What about several "LIKE" entries?
02:47
<alkisg>
I'm not sure
02:48
You could try it :)
03:17
<nubae>
heya alkisg
03:17
how's it going
03:18
<alkisg>
Hey nubae! Still struggling with the crazy fat clients implementation
03:18
<nubae>
I mentioned your project here, and at the use of the word nfs, everyone cringed...
03:18
<alkisg>
If you're willing to install it manually, you could give it a go... but it's not debianized yet
03:18
<nubae>
The problem they tell me is that all their implementations of nfs have cause serious problems
03:18
<alkisg>
Well, what other method is there to share a live system? Ltspfs? :(
03:19
...and how are they sharing their /home anyway, if not with nfs?
03:19
<nubae>
what about working with xrdp? or u need it on a file system level?
03:19
they actually stopped doing that, because of all the problems
03:20
but they have a script that connects to nfs and does a local rsync
03:20
in case the connectino breaks
03:21
and it does this synching every 5 minuters
03:21
what it does is try to work locally as much as possible to get strain off the nfs server
03:22
if u want I could pass u that script
03:22
might be of interest
03:25
<alkisg>
xrdp? Nah, viewing video with it will suck
03:26
Hmmmm so if nfs is not good, maybe /home shouldn't be shared after all - the local hard disk could be used in each station
03:26
Of course the students would have to sit on the same pc every time
03:29
Hmmm if sshfs is better, I guess I could use that; be it'd be slow because of all the encryption :(
03:34
<nubae>
take out encryption
03:34
direct X
03:35
but anyway, u wanna take a look at that script they use here?
03:35
it might give some ideas
03:35
the difference is they run stuff on local hard disks, and clone them via netboot
03:35
so its not quite the same
03:36
but this was used for the shared /home
03:36
<alkisg>
Nah if the script I'm working on proves inefficient, I'll just switch to your fat client script
03:37
sshfs doesn't allow unencrypted connections
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03:37
<alkisg>
Directx == not using ssh
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03:39
<alkisg>
Cloning is an interesting solution, though. Do you copy all the stuff, or only the differences, with something like rsync?
03:41
<ogra>
or zsync :) about three times faster but needs a webserver
03:41
<alkisg>
" all their implementations of nfs have cause serious problems" ==> you mean performance, or data loss?
03:41
ogra, interesting! Btw, do you think ltspfs could be used to remotely boot a pc? :D
03:41
<ogra>
i guess that would need tons of ram
03:42
<alkisg>
Ah, it copies all the data to ram? Ouch...
03:42
<ogra>
ltspfs unmounts in the back and keeps a reference to every file in the fs in memory
03:42
only the filetree
03:43
which is fine for a removabe device usually
03:43
<alkisg>
Hmmm maybe that could work on a dedicated "boot" file server... is it fast?
03:43
<ogra>
and i guess it would be slow since it likely keeps everything permanently mounted but would like to unmount after 2sec
03:44
<alkisg>
OK patching it to prevent unmounting wouldn't be too difficult, I imagine...
03:44
<ogra>
you might find intresting race conditions nobody found yet :)
03:44
<alkisg>
Ah :-/
03:46
Hmmm I wonder if AoE could be used... not on live file system, but on a read-only partition or chroot.
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04:17
<cyberorg>
alkisg, we experimented with AoE fatclient, http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Fatclient there is iscsi root example linked from there too
04:18
<alkisg>
cyberorg: can opensuse/kiwi somehow serve partitions or chroots instead of images?
04:18
I mean, to save the "compressing/preparing image" phase after each change?
04:19
<cyberorg>
alkisg, i think iscsi, aoe and nbd(?) can all serve partitions
04:20
<alkisg>
Hmmm (to get this straight) so the squashfs/nbd combination used in ubuntu could be reduced to just nbd, if someone wanted that?
04:21
<nubae>
yeah
04:21
<cyberorg>
fat client i worked on was very thin, it used /usr from server, so all apps installed on server as available on the client without requiring to install in chroot
04:21
<alkisg>
cyberorg: so it's possible with minimal fiddling with opensuse to have a dual boot system, boot with partition "a" and then share partition "b" to clients over aoe?
04:21
(or nbd or...O)
04:22
<nubae>
0?
04:22
<alkisg>
(typo :))
04:22
(or nbd or ...)
04:22
<ogra>
alkisg, you need an image/partition for eithetr nbd or iscsi
04:22
chroots wont work
04:22
<alkisg>
Ah, so a partition would do, but a chroot wouldn't, right?
04:22
OK. That sounds doable
04:22
<ogra>
neither of them exports on the filesystem level
04:22
right, partition or image will work with either
04:23
<alkisg>
Hmmm so maybe ltsp could be tweaked to support nbd fat cliens if they are installed in a seperate partition... am I getting this right?
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04:23
<ogra>
i would still export them readonly, but that would work, yes
04:24
<cyberorg>
alkisg, ltsp has nothing to do with that, just initrd is needed that supports nbd/iscsi/aoeroot
04:24
<alkisg>
cyberorg: no, ltsp in this case would be just the framework used to install the os into that partition
04:24
Hmmm this approach sounds good :)
04:24
<cyberorg>
k :)
04:25
<alkisg>
Thanks cyberorg. /me looks into that link above...
04:27
<ogra>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYcF_xX2DE8
04:27
*g*
04:27
now someone say shellscripts cant rule the world :)
04:27
<cyberorg>
ogra, "Linux: put babies to sleep..."?
04:28
<alkisg>
Hehe I wish I've seen that 9 years ago :)
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05:09
<alkisg>
cyberorg: did you try that aoe setup with e.g. a dozen clients? Is it fast enough for everyday use?
05:09
(with fat clients, I mean)
05:10
<cyberorg>
alkisg, not me, but shrek has it in production
05:10
<alkisg>
Nice :)
05:11
<cyberorg>
fat clients ltsp server cluster, and normal ltsp clients using aoeroot
05:13
<alkisg>
Ah. I need to try it for myself... most labs here have 8-12 clients, so I need to test 8-12 fat clients with a single ltsp server ...
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05:44
<kawan_>
Hi, I am looking for alkisg, is he around ?
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05:45
<elias_a>
kawan_: Left about 30 minutes ago.
05:47
<kawan_>
Oups.
05:48
He was of a tremendous help over a problem I had last night
05:49
He was going to release some patch for me.
06:02
<alkisg>
kawan_: hi
06:04
kawan_: I'm in the middle of putting karmic to my laptop, I'll be able to send you the patched gpxe disk in 30' or so.
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06:30
<nubae>
alkisg, sounds like you should sent an invoice to canonical ;-)
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06:37
<alkisg>
Heh :)
06:38
Hmmm sudo apt-get install nbd-client even puts it to the initramfs in Ubuntu... Most interesting!
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06:46
<kawan_>
hi alskig
06:46
Thanks a lot. I won't be around (got to go to work)
06:46
how do you want to send me the patch ?
06:47
<alkisg>
kawan_: I'll upload it somewhere and send you the url
06:47
It can be installed in floppy/cd/hard disk, which method do you prefer?
06:47
<kawan_>
cd if possible
06:48
<alkisg>
ok
06:48
Should I send you the url in a mail then?
06:49
<kawan_>
that would be great: vincent.roudil@gmail.com
06:49
<alkisg>
ok
06:49
<kawan_>
I'll keep you posted.
06:49
<alkisg>
I'll send it to you shortly.
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07:19
<nubae>
nice... since the channel is logged, u'll now be on every spam list :-)
07:19
<ogra>
nubae, thats what spam filters are for ;)
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07:21
<alkisg1>
nubae: I get >100 hits when googling with your email :)
07:21
<nubae>
:p
07:21
yeah its on my website
07:21
<alkisg1>
>4000 for ogra's...
07:21
<_UsUrPeR_>
bah. gmail's spam filter is a tiny jesus
07:22
<nubae>
thought its not with an " sign
07:22
<ogra>
alkisg, only ?
07:22
<nubae>
@ sign even
07:22
<ogra>
i get 21.600 for mine
07:22
<alkisg1>
I tried with the @ubuntu one
07:22
<ogra>
ogra@ubuntu.com
07:22
<_UsUrPeR_>
hey, how do I clear "away" status?
07:22
<alkisg1>
‏‎Αποτελέσματα 1 - 10 από περίπου 4.270 για ogra@ubuntu.com
07:23
<nubae>
takes it from the mailing lists
07:23
<alkisg1>
_UsUrPeR_: just write /away
07:23
<ogra>
alt+A in xchat
07:23
<_UsUrPeR_>
there we go :)
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07:31* alkisg1 now has a clean karmic partition to try & serve with nbd...
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07:59
<_UsUrPeR_>
jammcq: morning
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08:05
<alkisg1>
ogra, so how would I share a partition with nbd? Share e.g. /dev/sda2 with nbd-server, then connect it to /dev/nbd0 on a client, and mount -o loop an ext3 filesystem with that?
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08:11
<ogra>
you launch sudo nbd-server 1234 /dev/sda2
08:11
that will serve /dev/sda2 on 1234
08:12
<alkisg1>
Thanks! And how can I create /dev/nbd? devices on the client?
08:13
<ogra>
nbd-client does that automatically if you connect
08:13
they are created by udev if you load the nbd module (which nbd-client triggers)
08:13
<alkisg1>
Uhm I may have to reboot then
08:14
sudo nbd-client localhost 2001 /dev/nbd0 -persist ==> Error: Can not open NBD: No such file or directory
08:14
A last one, please? Can /dev/sda2 be mounted rw on the server, while it's served as ro on the clients?
08:16
(ah ok modprobe nbd got me the devices)
08:18
<_UsUrPeR_>
still having issues with the latest release of karmic and LTSP.
08:18
<ogra>
might be a bug, nbd-client should load nbd
08:18
<_UsUrPeR_>
anyone else try that out yet?
08:19
<ogra>
make sure you filed bugs
08:19
<alkisg1>
ogra: Thanks, everything's fine now :) I had to run nbd-server as root though, for it to be able to access sda2.
08:20
<ogra>
indeed
08:20
<alkisg1>
...on to boot a client now!
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08:42
<sbalneav>
Morning all
08:46
<elias_a>
Morning?
08:46
Have a nice weekend, everyone!
08:46
<alkisg1>
Bye elias_a
08:47
<elias_a>
This is about it, folks!
08:47
:)
08:47
<jammcq>
sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:49
<sbalneav>
Hey jammcq
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09:09
<_UsUrPeR_>
stgraber: ping
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09:20
<sbalneav>
_UsUrPeR_: Did you do any more testing with Sabayon?
09:20
<_UsUrPeR_>
sbalneav: Yes I did.
09:21
I tested out removing menu options from user profiles, as well as adding desktop icons
09:21
both worked great
09:22
one question: what stops an individual from creating a desktop icon? Say you want to stop an individual from accessing terminal. If someone wants to create a desktop icon for xterm, it will work still.
09:23
is there a security option to disallow icon/executer creation?
09:24
<sbalneav>
I'm not sure.
09:24
<alkisg1>
_UsUrPeR_: what would prevent them from going to /usr/bin/ with nautilus and just double clicking on xterm?
09:25
<_UsUrPeR_>
alkisg1: ahh, good question. Never thought about it. I guess I didn't see anything that would stop "places" from loading
09:25alkisg1 is now known as alkisg
09:26
<sbalneav>
I think that's a shortcoming of Nautils.
09:27
<_UsUrPeR_>
I guess nautilus can be changed via permissions
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09:34
<sbalneav>
The BEST way to handle all of this would be with ACL's
09:34
Add acl's to the terminal programs that prevent students from running it.
09:36
<alkisg>
ogra, first bug: passing nbdroot=server,port root=/dev/nbd0 as kernel parameters *would* let me boot but it doesn't because the module eth0 isn't yet loaded. If I put break=mount, wait 2 secs and press ctrl+D, it works fine. Where do I report that? In initramfs-tools, or in nbd-client?
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09:49
<SkyRocknRoll>
hi what is K12linux ?
09:50* SkyRocknRoll says fedora + ltsp integrated i think .. please acknowledge me
09:51* SkyRocknRoll if i am right
09:51
<SkyRocknRoll>
hi vvinet
09:51
vvinet: can u help me?
09:51
<sbalneav>
SkyRocknRoll: Yes, that's what it is.
09:52
Give people a chance to respond, eh? :)
09:52
<vvinet>
uh hi
09:52
of what help could I be SkyRocknRoll ?
09:52
(and why me? hehe)
09:53
<_UsUrPeR_>
I got it :)
09:54
skyrocknroll: K12linux is ltsp + fedora
09:54
<sbalneav>
SkyRocknRoll: Yes, k12linux is ltsp + fedora
09:54
<_UsUrPeR_>
jinx
09:54
;)
09:55
<SkyRocknRoll>
hi its nice to see your replies :D
09:55
vvinet: just by pressing 2v and a tab key got your name :)
09:56
i have fedora 10 box with me
09:56
can i install ltsp over here?
09:56
without going for k12linux ?
09:56
<vvinet>
ok then
09:56* vvinet goes back to work
09:57
<SkyRocknRoll>
_UsUrPeR_: hi will u help me ?
09:58
<_UsUrPeR_>
skyrocknroll: what's up?
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09:59
<_UsUrPeR_>
skyrocknroll: all the packages for LTSP are available through yum
09:59
<sbalneav>
SkyRocknRoll: Yes, check in your package manager
09:59
<SkyRocknRoll>
_UsUrPeR_: i have a fedora 10 box .. can i change it to ltsp server?
09:59
<_UsUrPeR_>
yep!
09:59
<SkyRocknRoll>
wow :D
09:59* _UsUrPeR_ goes to look for the docs
10:00
<_UsUrPeR_>
here you go
10:00
https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/InstallGuide
10:00
remember to follow along with the configuration steps along the bottom of that page
10:01
<SkyRocknRoll>
_UsUrPeR_: whats the advantage in using K12linux? only we can skip configuration or any other reason specially?
10:01
<_UsUrPeR_>
not much really. the packages are pre-installed, but still need to be configured
10:02
if you were looking for the simplest possible installation, ubuntu alternative installation CDs are where it's at.
10:02
<ogra>
alkisg, i'd say nbd-client
10:02
<_UsUrPeR_>
though the K12 installation process is quite simple from a new installation
10:02
<alkisg>
ogra, danke!
10:02
<ogra>
:)
10:02
<_UsUrPeR_>
and there's a quick tutorial to follow on the desktop
10:03
<ogra>
it's script should wait until something else than lo is up
10:04
<SkyRocknRoll>
_UsUrPeR_:Thanks for your help :) i will ask u if i have any doubts :D
10:04
<_UsUrPeR_>
no problem
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10:15
<sbalneav>
_UsUrPeR_: yeah, I think ACL's on gnome-terminal, etc's the way to go on that
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10:15
<_UsUrPeR_>
sbalneav: I agree. too much of a PITA to do permissions :P
10:18
<alkisg>
sbalneav, _UsUrPeR_: how would that block a student from downloading "my_super_xterm" from the internet, chmod +x'ing it, and running it?
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10:19
<_UsUrPeR_>
write protect directories. limit executable functions.
10:19
is it possible to chmod without terminal?
10:19
<alkisg>
Right click with nautilus, I think...
10:20
<_UsUrPeR_>
>_< check box!
10:20
yeah, I see it
10:20
never tried that one
10:21
<alkisg>
Heh you'd be surprised on how many ways the studens will be able to find to beat acls... :)
10:21
<_UsUrPeR_>
and expulsion is not normally an option
10:21
thank god this isn't something I have to deal with on a daily basis.
10:22
<vmlintu>
Here are some patches to disable execution from Nautilus: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=540923
10:23
<alkisg>
vmlintu: ok then the students would press alt+f2 and bypass nautilus :D :D
10:23
OK just joking the patches would be most welcome
10:24
<vmlintu>
there's also a way to disable alt+f2 from working
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10:27
<alkisg>
...and also all user startup files should be locked.... e.g. ~/.config/autostart/* ...
10:28
or ~/.profile or .* files that are *sourced* from other programs...
10:29
Also the menu editor... :(
10:31
...also the user should not be able to *copy* executable files and then change their contents... :-/ I'm sure there are other ways, complete locking at this level is kinda difficult
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10:50
<sbalneav>
alkisg: No, probably not.
10:52shawnp0wers has quit IRC
10:52
<sbalneav>
Or downloading source and compiling it.
10:53
One of the "problems" of Unix and/or Linux is, it's *meant* to be an open system.
10:55
The nautilus patch seems to be a good one.
10:55
I wonder if it's made it upstream into "base gnome" yet
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10:57
<sbalneav>
This isn't a problem for only linux.
10:57
My son's school has windows boxes "supposedly" locked down, but the kids "get around" it all the time, sometimes breaking the machine.
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10:58
<sbalneav>
Personally, I think making the fruit forbidden tends only to enhance the flavour, and a more open approach might yield more learning :)
10:59
<alkisg>
I don't lock anything in my school. There isn't even time for the kids to go around that much
10:59
And even if they did, it doesn't add much maintainance overhead...
10:59
<sbalneav>
alkisg++
11:00
<alkisg>
The only thing I lock is with squid, some parental control...
11:00
<sbalneav>
Besides, if you've got a kid who's interested enough to poke around, isn't that something to be encouraged? IMHO, yes.
11:00
Right, I can see not wanting to have porn pop up.
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11:02
<jammcq>
Gadi !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
11:02
<sbalneav>
Morning Gadi
11:02
<Gadi>
gutentag
11:02
how is everyone?
11:02
<sbalneav>
He invented printing.
11:03
<jammcq>
doing well
11:03
sbalneav: pfffff
11:03
<Gadi>
ah, movable type
11:03
<sbalneav>
Yeah, that thing
11:03
You know, the thing with the whatsis
11:04
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/08/26/microsoft.ad.gaffe/index.html?iref=mpstor
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11:04
<sbalneav>
"We're really, really sorry we got caught."
11:05
<jammcq>
sbalneav: yeah, did you notice the guy is using a macbook ?
11:05
<sbalneav>
Someone needs to watch the "You suck at photoshop" series :)
11:05
LOL
11:05
You're right
11:05
<jammcq>
and the monitor isn't plugged into anything
11:06
i'm thinking the entire photo was assembled from stock parts
11:07
<sbalneav>
That, and I've been to a lot of meetings in my time, and unless the guy with the donuts just walked in, and THAT'S what they're smiling at, no one EVER looks that happy at a meeting.
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11:08
<sbalneav>
"Oh, yay! Another 2 hours of my life wasted discussing the cover colour on the TPS reports!"
11:09
<jammcq>
sbalneav: yeah, I'm afraid i'm gonna have to ask you to come in and work on saturday.... yeah
11:09
<CAN-o-SPAM>
jammcq: you just made me press the backspace key ...
11:10
<sbalneav>
my... my.. stapler, you.. took.. my... stapler...
11:10* CAN-o-SPAM flashes his Red Swingline
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11:23
<sbalneav>
The ratio of people to cake is too big.
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12:11
<jammcq>
sbalneav: cake? mmmmmmm
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13:14
<johnny>
http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_2_6_31
13:14
cuse..
13:14
character devices in userspace
13:15
might be useful for ltsp
13:15
<Ryan52>
johnny: hm?
13:15
<johnny>
could use that to proxy serial devices over the network
13:16
<Ryan52>
hm, why would you want to use serial devices? :P
13:16
but ya, I get it. :)
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13:22
<johnny>
Ryan52, cash register drawers for one ..
13:22
also for usb.. too..
13:22
<Ryan52>
ah, that makes sense.
13:23
oh usb too? cool.
13:23
<johnny>
any character device
13:23
we just need a proper driver
13:23
<alexqwesa>
i start kiwi-ltsp, but i don't know default username and password, and root password
13:23* Ryan52 is unedumacated.
13:23
<johnny>
usb2ip was already in kernel in in the staging-tree
13:23
<alexqwesa>
please help)
13:23
<johnny>
but this will be better
13:23
<Ryan52>
alexqwesa: it's the password to your system.
13:23
alexqwesa: you just log in to your host system.
13:24
alexqwesa: LTSP should just ssh.
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13:24
<alexqwesa>
very big thanks
13:24* alexqwesa go to try))))
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13:31
<alexqwesa>
have a problem: verifying please wait.... and do nothing(
13:32
local login via ssh - work ( ssh all@192.168.0.1)
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<alkisg>
alexqwesa: try running ltsp-update-sshkeys
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14:59
<alkisg>
Yup, fat clients with nbd are about twice as fast as nfs-based clients... Can't wait to test with 10+ clients. Thanks, ogra :)
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18:55
<IBC_jkenney>
hello i have a problem where i have dual display and my gdm splits in the middle but what I really want is the login box on the left
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19:15
<cliebow>
sbalneav:heyQ!
19:24
<johnny>
IBC_jkenney, i assume you mean ldm..
19:24
otherwise you should be asking the question in your distro support chat
19:25
i don't know the answer in any case, just making sure that you are being clear with your question
19:50
<IBC_jkenney>
yes correct LDM
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23:12
<jkenney_>
hello
23:12
who is still here an a saturday?
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<jkenney_>
join #samba
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