IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 19 April 2010   (all times are UTC)

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02:08
<gnunux>
hi
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08:20
<_UsUrPeR_>
morning all
08:53
<vbundi>
mornin
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09:35
<alkisg>
stgraber: ping? (about udhcp, whenever you got 5'...)
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09:40
<jammcq>
hello friends
09:46
<highvoltage>
hello uncle jammcq
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10:35
<treyhunsucker>
Gadi: no reports as of yet about anyone loosing audio
10:35
*Cheers*
10:38
one thing i've noticed on this install
10:38
is after fulling upgrading ub 9.10 and the chroot
10:38
i use about 1/3 of the memory
10:39
i made some changes on my 2003 TS to limit the nic to only use 1 core on 1 cpu
10:39
*2008 TS
10:39
i wonder if that also helped in a strange way?
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10:39
<vbundi>
cool, didn't know you could do that
10:40
I think when you upgrade it uninstalls things sometimes, so maybe that's why you are using less memory? less things running
10:40
<treyhunsucker>
vbundi: it's a new tool in 2008
10:40
vbundi: yea but I went from using 75% of my ram
10:40
to using 25$
10:40
25%
10:40
<Gadi>
server side or client side?
10:40
<treyhunsucker>
Gadi: server
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10:41
<Gadi>
then, it is probably the windows settings that helped - not the ubuntu upgrade
10:41
<treyhunsucker>
Gadi: interesting
10:41
i lied, after usage this morning it's peaked at 41% usage
10:42
but still very interesting
10:42
Interrupt-Affinity Policy Tool FTW
10:43
<vbundi>
so you are using ubuntu desktops to run rdesktop to your 2008RDS?
10:44
<treyhunsucker>
vbundi: yes
10:44
<vbundi>
and the 41% memory usage is your LTS?
10:44
<treyhunsucker>
vbundi: oops let me correct myself, i'm using the rdesktop screen script
10:45
vbundi: using the rdesktop screen script to connect to 2008 TS, and memory is at 41%
10:45
<vbundi>
how many clients is that
10:45
and 41% of what
10:45
<treyhunsucker>
41% of memory usage
10:45
<vbundi>
of how much ;P
10:45
8GB?
10:45
<treyhunsucker>
vbundi: 1.5g
10:46
i have 100 clients
10:46
but not all of them are in use at a time
10:46
i think the average load is around 40-50
10:46
<vbundi>
ah ok
10:47
do you use samba with it or are you running everything on windows
10:47
<treyhunsucker>
windows for everything
10:49
<vbundi>
ah, I tried messing with Server 08 a while back.. I liked it, but I wasn't having much success getting samba to work with it
10:49
<treyhunsucker>
vbundi: yea a lot of things have changed, probably need to join your LTS to the domain
10:50
<vbundi>
treyhunsucker: lol, can you do anything with windows without being joined to the domain? ;)
10:50
<treyhunsucker>
vbundi: you can ping it :)
10:51
i absolutely hate windows
10:51
but there is simply no replacement for a domain style environment that has all the features
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10:54
<treyhunsucker>
stgraber: hello sir are you around?
10:54
<vbundi>
sabayon is sweet
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10:55
<vbundi>
what a great idea
10:56
<treyhunsucker>
what is sabayon
10:58
<vbundi>
it lets you make profiles and preferences for users
10:58
<treyhunsucker>
vbundi: from a live cd?
10:59
<vbundi>
when you run it and create a profile... it runs a session that is just like a normal desktop... but any preferences that you save... ie fontsize or background or desktop icons..you can save as a template to apply to users or groups
10:59
<treyhunsucker>
vbundi: cool
11:00
<komunista>
hi all
11:00
<vbundi>
yeah, a little simpler than running through 1000 policies and checkboxes etc
11:00
hi
11:04
<elias_a>
Hello, folks!
11:07
<treyhunsucker>
hello: elias_a
11:07
komunista: hello
11:07
elias_a: hello
11:08
<elias_a>
What are you guys up to?
11:18
<vbundi>
gettin italc running
11:18
<treyhunsucker>
elias_a: working on italc also
11:18
vbundi: you install it on the server?
11:18
vbundi: or the clients?
11:18
<vbundi>
both
11:18
just install italc-client in your chroot
11:19
I'm getting an error saying my keys aren't generated or my service isnt' running
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11:40
<vbundi>
cool! :) got italc running
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11:55
<treyhunsucker>
vbundi: cool how much memory is it using on each client
11:55
<vbundi>
not sure I'll look in a few
12:03
<johnny>
alkisg, how much memory is being used before swap on your fat clients?
12:03
err lemme try that again
12:04
how much memory is being used on login with your fat clients
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12:52
<alkisg>
johnny: `free` says 96M, `htop` says 30M.
12:53
<johnny>
with how much ram?
12:53
<alkisg>
768
12:53
(I'm disabling cron in my setups with an ltsp-build-client plugin)
12:53
<johnny>
does that really help?
12:53
<alkisg>
Yes, it stops a lot of annoying tasks
12:53
<johnny>
for example?
12:53
<alkisg>
E.g. updatedb, update-xapian-index etc
12:54
There are dozens of them in a fat client installation
12:54
<johnny>
hmm.. with 512mb ram, it's already touching swap.. :(
12:54
and things get kinda slow
12:54
<alkisg>
And that's before logon?! Wow...
12:55
I'm also using nfs-client, that also takes a bit of ram before logon.
12:55
(it's included in the 96 M)
12:56
<johnny>
no.. on login
12:56
before opening anything else
12:57
<alkisg>
After gnome logon?
12:57
<johnny>
yes
12:57
<alkisg>
OK let me try...
12:57
<johnny>
i thought i was gonna be ok with 512mb ram, but i don't think so..
12:58
i should probably go back to my gigabit card
12:58
we were having problems with that before
12:58
i think there was a bad driver during jaunty
12:58
<alkisg>
What I'm telling my users is "512 is the threshold, below that use the clients as thin, above that, as fat"
12:59
With exactly 512 it's hard to decide... with a good setup you should be able to work but not with a lot of apps open simultaneously...
13:00
<johnny>
usually ti's just firefox and/or openoffice
13:00
i wish i could upgrade them more
13:00
<alkisg>
Well firefox with 1 tab is very very different than firefox with 10 tabs :)
13:01
<johnny>
i wish i had a pc tech who could tell me what's wrong with this computer i used to use as a server :(
13:01
<alkisg>
After logon and with just an xterm open, `free` tells me 282M
13:01
<johnny>
yeah.. that sounds about right then.. with 768
13:01
<alkisg>
No, with 512
13:01
<johnny>
oh.. hmm
13:01
<alkisg>
And I'm talking about the used memory
13:01
Free == 227M
13:02
<johnny>
maybe it's just my network link that's getting congested
13:02
i'm going to switch to back to the gigabit card
13:02
<alkisg>
johnny: ps aux should tell you the exact details...
13:02
If you want, upload it to pastebin
13:02
<johnny>
i'm not there
13:02
<alkisg>
Whenever...
13:04
<Lns>
Does anyone have any experience with E-Rate funding and LTSP servers?
13:09
Gadi: ping? ^^^ ? Do you know if your boot appliances qualify for e-rate funding, since they don't typically house application software?
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13:10
<denisesball>
hey all, i know some key components of ltsp-cluster are being rewritten. would it be wise to wait until its completed before deploying in a large environment?
13:10
<Gadi>
Lns: hey
13:10
<Lns>
hey gadi =)
13:11
<Gadi>
we are an erate vendor
13:11
what dya want to know?
13:11
(not that I am an erate expert)
13:12
<Lns>
Gadi: I'm just trying to get some grips on E-Rate in general and what LTSP functionality is funded..I can see end-user terminals aren't, as well as things that house app. software..but it would seem that things like your boot appliance would be eligable
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13:12
<Lns>
eligible*
13:12
<Gadi>
as far as I understand, there are multiple categories within erate
13:12
<Lns>
seems like it's a big grey area for terminal services, though i read an article that even citrix software is eligible
13:13
<Gadi>
categories of types of equipment
13:13
<Lns>
right
13:13
http://www.olis.ri.gov/grants/erate/eligible.pdf
13:13
<Gadi>
and depending on how many kids get free lunch, that determines what categories you can buy stuff from
13:14
<Lns>
the free lunch factors in with what categories are eligible?? weird.
13:14
<johnny>
denisesball, probably not, but you should probably ask on the mailing list
13:14
<Lns>
I thought it factored with the percentage overall it would fund
13:14
maybe both..
13:14
<denisesball>
johnny: ok, they have this irc channel listed on their site, so thought i would take a stab
13:15
<johnny>
sure, some of the cluster devs and users are here
13:15
but, not as active as regular ltsp users yet
13:15
<denisesball>
also i find the ltsp docs incredibly confusing
13:15
seems to be a lot of different names for the same things
13:16
<vagrantc>
denisesball: for example?
13:16
<johnny>
cluster docs?
13:16
or regular?
13:16
<vagrantc>
denisesball: and which docs?
13:16
<Lns>
Gadi: ah this one is the most up to date (2010).. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-09-105A2.pdf
13:17* vagrantc suspects that LOCALDEV, LOCAL_APPS, REMOTE_APPS, FATCLIENTS and SOUND support might confuse people
13:18
<johnny>
luckily localdev and sound are enabled by default
13:18
so most people dont' even have to know they exist
13:18
<denisesball>
vagrantc/johnny: cluster docs. comparing this doc - https://www.ltsp-cluster.org/documentation/technical-introduction to this doc https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSP-Cluster
13:18
<johnny>
oh.. for cluster
13:19
those aren't the ltsp docs
13:19
<vagrantc>
ah, barely know anything about the cluster stuff
13:19
<johnny>
they have yet to be merged into the ltsp docs
13:19
<denisesball>
right, i said cluster
13:19
<johnny>
the ltsp docs are fine :)
13:19
<denisesball>
trying to understand all the pieces
13:19
<johnny>
mostly anyways :)
13:19
<vagrantc>
"11:15 < denisesball> also i find the ltsp docs incredibly confusing"
13:19
<johnny>
denisesball, cluster is still somewhat of a seperate project
13:19
<vagrantc>
:)
13:19
<denisesball>
right, i clarified that...
13:19
i never had a problem with ltsp docs
13:19
<johnny>
your best bet is on tlhe mailing list
13:20
unless stgraber wants to talk..
13:20
<denisesball>
i also dont see how to have a fully redundant setup with ltsp-cluster without the root servers being redundant
13:20
which is kinda the whole attraction for me
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13:25
<denisesball>
johnny: would that be the regular ltsp-discuss mailing list then?
13:27
<johnny>
not sure, if they don't have a mailing list on ltsp-cluster.org
13:27
then yes
13:27
otherwise no
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13:34
<alkisg>
vagrantc: the udhcp debian/ubuntu package is using ancient code (more than 5 years old), because udhcp is now being maintained in busybox. So the busybox people adviced me to notify the udhcp package maintainer to either drop the package completely, or to use busybox as the source to build it.
13:34
What's the correct way to handle that? I suppose I could file a bug in launchpad/ubuntu, but I don't think that would help... should I file a bug in debian even though I use ubuntu?
13:36
<vagrantc>
alkisg: whatever feels comfortable to you...
13:36
<alkisg>
Neither :)
13:36
<vagrantc>
hah
13:36
<alkisg>
Does LTSP in debian use udhcp, if it exists?
13:36
<vagrantc>
ah!
13:36
alkisg: i install the hooks, but do not install the package.
13:37
alkisg: no need to do anything: http://packages.qa.debian.org/u/udhcp/news/20100228T163929Z.html
13:37
<alkisg>
Ah, nice!
13:37
Now we need to go to the second phase, i.e. ask the busybox-initramfs maintainers to add udhcpc as a build target :)
13:37
stgraber: ^^^
13:38
<vagrantc>
weird... it was removed from testing, but not from unstable...
13:38
but it's not present in unstable...
13:39
<alkisg>
vagrantc: if you run /usr/lib/initramfs-tools/bin/busybox, does it tell you that udhcpc is an available command in debian?
13:40
<vagrantc>
alkisg: from the initramfs?
13:40
<alkisg>
No, directly
13:40
(if you have busybox-initramfs installed, that is...)
13:40
(either in the server or the chroot)
13:40
<vagrantc>
there's no /usr/lib/initramfs-tools
13:41
<alkisg>
dpkg -L busybox-initramfs
13:41
<vagrantc>
there's no busybox-initramfs package in debian
13:41
<alkisg>
Nah, ubuntu-ism... :(
13:41
OK, then the busybox itself?
13:42
(busybox-static, I believe)
13:42
<vagrantc>
seems like debian busybox package ships a udhcpc/udhcpd package
13:42
<alkisg>
Aaahhh! http://packages.debian.org/sid/source/busybox
13:43
<vagrantc>
that was mysterious
13:43
<alkisg>
OK, that's the best news then, it requires the less work from me :D
13:43
They actually dropped the ancient code and are building it from busybox
13:43
<vagrantc>
you just have to say, "Ubuntu, do what debian is doing!"
13:43
<alkisg>
Right :)
13:43
Thanks!
13:45
<vagrantc>
though busybox (and hence, udhcpc) seems blocked from migration to testing
13:45
<alkisg>
What does that mean?
13:46
<vagrantc>
presumeably since busybox so core to debian-installer, they've frozen it's migration, and the version in testing doesn't have the udhcp stuff ... though i'm guessing they'll let it move before release.
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13:55* alkisg filed LP #566845, now we just need a good way to detect the new version in the LTSP sources so that we use the -C parameter instead of the broken --clientid...
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14:15
<Gadi>
alkisg: so clientid doesn't work atm?
14:19
<alkisg>
Gadi: it *only* works with dhcp3-server
14:19
<_UsUrPeR_>
hey all. Can somebody point me toward the correct way to boot a non-thincan etherboot client in 10.04?
14:19
<alkisg>
It breaks on windows dhcp servers, cisco routers etc...
14:19
<_UsUrPeR_>
Previously, I was able to use mknbi to create a new initramfs, but that does not seem to cut it anymore.
14:19
<Lns>
vagrantc: have you ever had to deal with session processes lingering after user logout, and/or gnome-watchdog?
14:19
<alkisg>
So for Lucid I have to stop using udhcp, it's broken for me
14:20
<vagrantc>
Lns: it's been a recurring problem over the years, with varying degrees of evilness.
14:21
Lns: the biggest thing i did to improve it was to teach users that ctrl-alt-backspace wasn't the same thing as logging out cleanly.
14:21
<Lns>
vagrantc: gotcha.. I think I'll test out gnome-watchdog on lenny. Wonder if it'll even install ;)
14:21
<vagrantc>
there were several generations of freegeekers who taught each sucessive generation to just use ctrl-alt-backspace...
14:22
<Lns>
vagrantc: hehe... =) Well, I can see that you could always 1) disable CTRL+ALT+BACKSPACE, or 2) have something like g-w clean up afterwards if used.. Personally I love the neat shortcuts X provides and don't like it when distros disable it :)
14:24
looks like gnome-watchdog installs (after installing gtkdialog of course as a dep)
14:24
brb, gonna re-log in to enable it
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14:26
<Lns>
coolio
14:28
<atkuepker>
Lns: we're seeing it even after proper logouts. Haven't devised a good solution yet, but it's on my to-do list for this quarter.
14:28
<Lns>
atkuepker: you've seen gnome-watchdog right?
14:29
<Gadi>
alkisg: what does that mean? you mean sending clientid="" only works?
14:29
<alkisg>
Gadi, with a cisco router, my clients hang all the time
14:30
So I have to use IPAPPEND=3 (==bypass udhcpc completely) in order for them to work
14:30
The dhcp rfc states that clientid should be unique for each client on the local network
14:30
<atkuepker>
Lns: no, not really.
14:30
<Lns>
atkuepker: you running debian/ubuntu ltsp?
14:30
<alkisg>
Gadi: so I guess that the cisco router considers all my LTSP clients as the same client or something like that...
14:30
<atkuepker>
Am still coming up to speed after 8 years of KDE & Fedora
14:31
but, yes
14:31
<Lns>
atkuepker: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/GnomeWatchdog
14:31
atkuepker: it's worked great for my sites for a couple years now
14:32
<Gadi>
alkisg: but hangs when specifying a clientid or just hangs when using udhcpc in general?
14:32
<alkisg>
Gadi: udhcpc by default generates a unique clientid, so it works
14:32
But in LTSP we force it to use clientid ''
14:32
...and that's what breaks it
14:33
The problem is that by default that old udhcpc version causes dhcp3-server to generate duplicate leases
14:33
<Gadi>
alkisg: I actually tried something wrt clientid the other day that wasnt working - where would one specify a custom clientid?
14:33
<vagrantc>
Lns: i've heard mention of this gnome-watchdog thing ...
14:34* vagrantc wonders why it hasn't been uploaded to debian/ubuntu
14:34
<alkisg>
Gadi: the proper solution is to use a newer udhcpc version, one that supports the new -C switch
14:34
-C == "don't provide a clientid at all"
14:34
That's acceptable by the dhcp rfc, and is not causing duplicate leases
14:34
<Lns>
vagrantc: It was put together by the guy who did schooltool i think, it was an independent project that never got any dist. attention i think
14:34
<abeehc>
gnome-watchdog works ok for me.. not so great for auto-login users i find
14:35
<vagrantc>
hm.
14:35
<Lns>
abeehc: yes, I haven't tried gnome-watchdog with auto/guest users before
14:36
<Gadi>
alkisg: right, but I actually need a clientID
14:36
:)
14:36
<alkisg>
Gadi, why?
14:36
dhclient doesn't work for you?
14:36
<Gadi>
I use it to distinguish between thin clients and PCs
14:36
<Lns>
vagrantc: I'd love to see it in deb/ubu, since my domain seems to be the only place that even hosts the .deb file anymore ;)
14:36
<alkisg>
or PXE ?
14:36
Gadi, clientid != vendor id
14:36
<Gadi>
ah, really?
14:37
is there a vendor id flag for udhcpc?
14:37
<alkisg>
Uh, /me looks...
14:37
<Lns>
and obviously it's pretty crucial.. though ogra has said before that *some* cleanup is performed in newer LTSPs, but only when the user re-logs in (which doesn't cover any runaway procs after they log out)
14:38
<alkisg>
Gadi: line 166 in : http://git.busybox.net/busybox/tree/networking/udhcp/dhcpc.c?h=1_16_stable&id=53283adb24765a7afb4d6298661c3c1a8d6f5601
14:38
(that's the newer udhcp, I hope I never see again the old one :))
14:38
<Gadi>
ah, -V
14:40
<alkisg>
Right. So I think we should stop using --clientid completely, and use -C instead, and provide some way for the users to specify -V if they need
14:41
<atkuepker>
Lns: Thanks. So, if /etc/check_previous_login exists, it forces users to only be logged into 1 terminal at a time, yes?
14:42
<Lns>
atkuepker: I think it enforces it by a gtkdialog asking them if they want to kill the previous session during login
14:42
atkuepker: but yes, it's got the general principle of having only one session per user
14:43
<atkuepker>
ah. That's a good start at least. Next time you visit Seattle, let me know. I'll buy you a beer. =)
14:44
<Gadi>
crap
14:44
no -V in the old one
14:45
read: existing Ubuntu one
14:45
<Lns>
atkuepker: ;) Hey I just host the package and made the doc for it, I didn't make the script =) but sure, I never turn down free beer!
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14:46
<alkisg>
Gadi: yeah, it's ancient. We'll need to file an SRU to get it into Lucid, it seems.
14:47
<Lns>
vagrantc: ooo, lenny+ crafts a sane sources.list including updates and stuff? :)
14:47
(during ltsp-build-client)
14:48
<Gadi>
alkisg: now to see which patch I prefer - busybox/udhcpc or klibc
14:48
<alkisg>
Gadi, klibc? What do you mean?
14:48
ipconfig?
14:48
<Gadi>
yeah
14:48mischko has quit IRC
14:48
<Gadi>
I think that one needed patching, too
14:48
I have to refresh my memory
14:49
<alkisg>
Yes it was pretty broken, but it worked for some setups
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14:49
<vagrantc>
Lns: i don't know that it ever didn't craft a sane sources.list.
14:49
<alkisg>
Gadi: If it worked on your environment, you just need to remove udhcp from the chroot (not purge it, just mv it)
14:49
<Lns>
vagrantc: i was comparing to (older?) ubu releases
14:50
<treyhunsucker>
Gadi: bad news, audio is randomly dying on clients
14:50
to restate the issue
14:51
i am using the rdestop screen script, have SOUND= FALSE in my lts.conf in the default section. The clients randomly loose audio, not choppy or anything like that, just stops until they reboot
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14:57
<treyhunsucker>
I found a similiar issue with jaunty, which is what i'm using, that requires the audio fix to do this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UnlockChrootRootAcct
14:57
that a bad idea?
14:58
<vagrantc>
treyhunsucker: just set up a SCREEN_NN=shell
14:58
treyhunsucker: much simpler.
14:58
where NN = 01, .. , 12
15:00
<treyhunsucker>
vagrantc: i agree, after posting it they went through and did a bunch of crazy crap not worht it
15:00
*worth it
15:00
when I have sound=false setup in my lts.conf, what app controls sound while using the rdesktop screen script?
15:06
<Gadi>
treyhunsucker: rdesktop controls everything
15:06
rdesktop talks directly to alsa
15:07
if sound just dies, it points towards the driver failing
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15:13
<treyhunsucker>
Gadi: interesting
15:13
gadi: so my next step would to be update the driver for each sound card that I have
15:17
<vbundi>
I must be lucky... I don't think I've ever had a system where the soundcard wasn't detected
15:17
what kind of systems are you having problems with trey
15:18
<treyhunsucker>
vbundi: it's several different kinds
15:18
vbundi: dell optiplex sx280
15:19
vbundi: gateway profile 5
15:19
those are 2 off the top of my head
15:19
<vbundi>
optiplex won't work?
15:19
it's an intel board isn't it?
15:19
<treyhunsucker>
vbundi: they have always worked until about a month ago
15:19
vbundi: intel yes
15:19
<vbundi>
ok try this.. have you got one booted up?
15:19
<treyhunsucker>
vbundi: yup yup
15:20
<vbundi>
right click your sound applet on your gnome panel
15:20
err left click
15:20
sound preferences
15:20
<treyhunsucker>
vbundi: i don't run gnome, I run the rdesktop screen script :)
15:20
<vbundi>
well load gnome and try this
15:20
:P
15:20
<treyhunsucker>
vbundi: go ahead and give me instructions
15:20
i will do it at the end of the day whe no one is around
15:20
<vbundi>
go to your output tab
15:21
there's a dropdown box labeled 'Connector:'
15:21
<treyhunsucker>
yes
15:21
<vbundi>
my systems that have built in speakers have an option called Analog Output (LFE)
15:21
<treyhunsucker>
ok
15:22
<atkuepker>
treyhunsucker, we're getting some sx280s in at the end of this week for us to test. If you pop back in next week, I'll try to report back in.
15:22
<vbundi>
that makes the internal speaker work... if it's set to that.. you wont get audio on your audio output jack
15:22
<treyhunsucker>
vbundi: already been down that path
15:23
<johnny>
why does the copy/paste in most of my apps always miss the first letter ;(
15:23
<treyhunsucker>
vbundi: on various units on the lts.conf i have things like HEADPHONE_VOLUME=75 and etc
15:23
atkuepker: that would be awesome
15:24
vbundi: for that specific reason, and others things like volume=0
15:24
<vbundi>
ah well sorry I couldn't be of any more help... I've got a couple optiplex gx520s and thincenters and thats how they behave
15:24
<treyhunsucker>
vbundi: no i appreciate it ty
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15:25
<vbundi>
actually I think we have a couple SX280s or 270s or something at the other office
15:26
I'm running Lucid though so I dunno how much that would help ya
15:26
<treyhunsucker>
i might actually end up using the gnome desktop on a few
15:26
of course when lucid is released at the end of this month
15:26
if this isn't fixed i'll upgrade to it
15:27
<atkuepker>
run today's lucid with a GX240 on my other monitor. Other than the TFTP config files getting overwritten each morning and gnome-screensaver crashing, it's going well.
15:28treyhunsucker has left #ltsp
15:28
<atkuepker>
not with the onboard Intel video though. That is still seriously crashy for us for some reason.
15:28
<johnny>
i still need to upgrade to lucid
15:28
<vbundi>
these thinkcenters are G915 intel video and it works great
15:29
<johnny>
because of a hard drive failure, we had to take all our sales manually yesterday
15:29
<vbundi>
even compiz works :)
15:29
<johnny>
i had a misunderstanding with a coworker of what exactly was being backed up
15:29
<vbundi>
johnny: ouch
15:29
<johnny>
only /etc/, /home/, and some /var dirs.. not all
15:29
<vbundi>
no raid?
15:29
<johnny>
no.. no raid.. i don't know nothin about that
15:30
i am buying a second hard drive tho
15:30
<atkuepker>
thinkcenter? Is that Lenovo stuff?
15:30
<johnny>
and using rdiff-backup nightly
15:30
not sure why i would use raid vs rdiff-backup
15:30
<vbundi>
atkuepker: yep, same small form factor stuff as the optiplex's
15:30
<johnny>
vbundi, why would i use raid over rdiff-backup?
15:30
<alkisg>
atkuepker: try nomodeset as a kernel parameter, it helped on some intel clients for me
15:30
<vbundi>
johnny: to avoid downtime
15:31
<johnny>
downtime for rdiff-backup would be less than a half hour
15:31
<abeehc>
i found nomodeset critical on a couple too
15:31
<atkuepker>
alkisg, I'll try that out on the test server. We're buying several hundred at a time, so we're very keen on being able to use a default configuration.
15:31
<johnny>
and we get incremental fixes
15:31
raid doesn't do incremental
15:31
at least not the kind of raid we would do
15:32
<vbundi>
johnny: so when your hard drive dies, you pop in a new drive and image your stuff over to it?
15:32
<johnny>
we're going to have a 2nd one
15:32
2 equivalent 500g drives
15:32
<vbundi>
oh I see
15:32
<johnny>
and just rdiff-backup nightly
15:32
<vagrantc>
i'll be tagging ldm-trunk and ltsp-trunk today...
15:32
<johnny>
since rdiff-backup gives me incremental and full backups
15:32
<vagrantc>
unless anyone screams
15:32
<johnny>
and i think it should even be bootlable with one small change
15:33
<vbundi>
so it's similar to raid in the sense that your data is mirrored, but not inside the physical machine...
15:33
<johnny>
vbundi, so really.. it would be downtime enough for a reboot
15:33
just pick the other drive to boot from
15:33
<vbundi>
ohh
15:33
even inside the machine, I see
15:33
<johnny>
technically rdiff-backup will use more space than a raided setup
15:34
but the incremental backup is worth it
15:34
i just wish it was easier to prune..
15:34
we were backing up to a remote server
15:34
<vbundi>
johnny: the slight advantage with raid, would be that in the event of a failure, your machine doesn't go down
15:34
<johnny>
ah... that's no big deal really
15:34
<vbundi>
yeah for most stuff probably not
15:34
<johnny>
if it's down for 5 minutes it's not gonna hurt us
15:35
we take a few orders manually..
15:35
that's it
15:35
<vbundi>
we had a fan seize in a 2U case... killed both our drives
15:35
<johnny>
if i didn't know we didn't have enough backup space on the server for all our msuic and whatnot
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15:35
<johnny>
i would have already gotten the other drive
15:35
we don't do tons of business
15:35
my budget goes up by about $50/wk
15:36
i also had a misunderstanding in what should be paid out of the tech budget vs the general fund
15:36
turns out our main computer is under the general fund :)
15:36
<vbundi>
nice
15:36
<johnny>
i was always holding back $400 to replace it
15:36
now i can buy something nice..
15:37
<vbundi>
big monitor for pr0n
15:37
:D
15:38
or not.
15:39* _UsUrPeR_ looks at the monitor at the wrong time
15:40
<johnny>
vbundi, it's a bookstore coffeehouse
15:40
i use ltsp for the internet terminals
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15:42
<vbundi>
ahh
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15:55
<Gadi>
alkisg: ping
15:55
<alkisg>
pong
15:55
<Gadi>
do you know what exact "stability issues" led stgraber to turn of compression on the image?
15:56* Gadi is seeing some instabilities in lucid's mount of compressed image, but I never saw it before nbd-proxy
15:56
<Gadi>
and I wonder if it's only unstable through nbd-proxy
15:57
<alkisg>
No, not exactly. He told me he was having problems with the compressed image but not the exact details.
15:57
I too never had problems with compressed images
15:58
....and I had several problems with nbd-proxy even with uncompressed images...
15:58
<Gadi>
I think when you turn off udhcpc or use IPAPPEND and the boot process goes quicker, it exposes more issues
15:58
<alkisg>
Lucid?
15:58
<Gadi>
I can reboot three times and get three different errors
15:58
yeah
15:58
lucid
15:59
<alkisg>
Many scripts need to be up-startified
15:59
<Gadi>
everything from bus errors, to squashfs errors, to no error and the boot goes through fine
15:59
<alkisg>
E.g. with a fast core 2 duo as the client, I'm getting a "cannot mount nbd" error
15:59
<Gadi>
this is all in initramfs
15:59
<alkisg>
After 2-3 seconds, the network is initialized! :D
15:59
So I have to use break=mount, wait 3 seconds, and then press ctrl+d to boot it...
16:00
udhcp is in the wrong place (init-premount)
16:00
It should be called directly from ltsp_nbd
16:00
(at configure_networking)
16:00
Too many things are wrong in the boot process, both for ltsp clients and for standalone lucid PCs :(
16:00
<Gadi>
well, my problems occur when I don't use udhcpc
16:01* Gadi considers ripping out nbd-proxy
16:01
<Gadi>
why do we have nbd-proxy anyway?
16:01
<alkisg>
Gadi, what do you use? ipconfig? That one has problems on its own
16:01
<Gadi>
yeah, ipconfig
16:01
right now
16:01
what problems exactly?
16:02
<alkisg>
E.g. it may never get an ip lease
16:02* vagrantc still uses ipconfig
16:02
<Gadi>
haven't seen that problem
16:02
<alkisg>
What do you see?
16:02
<vagrantc>
Gadi: nbd-proxy was implemented to better support reconnections or something like that
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16:03
<vagrantc>
servers disappearing
16:03
<Gadi>
vagrantc: evidently to the detriment of connections ;)
16:03
<vagrantc>
round-robin servers or something
16:03* alkisg tried unplugging / repluggin the client network cable, but nbd-proxy didn't help there...
16:03
<vagrantc>
Gadi: don't blame me, i still recommend NFS :)
16:03
<johnny>
considered trying dracut instead of intramfs-tools alkisg :)
16:03
<alkisg>
johnny: I'm not an ubuntu core developer, I can't make such decisions
16:04
<johnny>
sure, i meant you trying it :)
16:04
personally
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16:17
<Lns>
nfs ftw ;)
16:17* Lns waves to all
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