IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 20 January 2015   (all times are UTC)

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02:32
<austrian>
Does LDM use SSH to authenticate?
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06:37work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
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07:04
<ltsp_fan>
greetings
07:04
thanks to everyone for your help
07:05
<alkisg>
Hi ltsp_fan
07:06
Which distro/version you said you're using? You shouldn't be having issues with /run/net*.conf...
07:06
<ltsp_fan>
dear alkisg, thanks for your help, we have all the clients booting
07:06
i still have some problems though
07:06
wheezy
07:06
<alkisg>
If the code was old and you had /tmp/net*.conf there instead of /run, then ok
07:07
...let me check the code in the bug report...
07:07
!sis190
07:07
<ltsp`>
sis190: In some kernels, the sis190 module has problems with NBD/NFS so the clients stop at iniramfs>. To fix them put this http://paste.debian.net/65403/ in $CHROOT/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-premount/udhcp-sis190, chmod +x it, and run update-initramfs -u in the chroot and ltsp-update-kernels outside of it
07:07
<ltsp_fan>
i just copied the code as provided in the link
07:07
<alkisg>
No it's ok, /run, it should work
07:07
Maybe wheezy was too old and it was using /tmp
07:07
<ltsp_fan>
should i upgrade to jessie?
07:07
<alkisg>
No no, but you could try /tmp instead of /run
07:08
<ltsp_fan>
is it important?
07:08
<alkisg>
No. Anyways, what problem are you having now?
07:08
<ltsp_fan>
first, none of the desktop-sessions were running properly
07:08
<alkisg>
Client specs? thin or fats?
07:08
<ltsp_fan>
then i changed the color depth to 24
07:09
thin clients
07:09
pentium's, some dual core
07:09
mostly old
07:09
but 64 bit
07:09
<alkisg>
We're configuring anything >= 512 MB RAM as fat clients here
07:10
<ltsp_fan>
yes all >512mb
07:10
<alkisg>
Even old pentium 4 with 1 GB RAM behave better as fats than as thins
07:10
You should consider ltsp-pnp then
07:10
!ltsp-pnp
07:10
<ltsp`>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
07:11
<ltsp_fan>
what are the advantages
07:11
<alkisg>
For the desktop sessions, I prefer gnome-flashback or mate-desktop
07:11
!fatclients
07:11
<ltsp`>
fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
07:11
<alkisg>
Read the background there, or in the ltsp-pnp page
07:11
For example,...
07:11
!flash
07:11
<ltsp`>
flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
07:11
<alkisg>
2.5 Gbps per client is not achievable in any case, so thin clients will never work as good as fat chients
07:12
3d is a problem too with thin clients, also server cpu, etc etc
07:12
It depends on your usage, but for standard "web browsing, a bit of multimedia etc", fats are better
07:12
<ltsp_fan>
ok, im convinced about fat clients, but what are the advantages of ltsp-pnp over chroot
07:12
<alkisg>
Ah, ease of maintainability
07:12
E.g. you want to install some program that has a gui installer
07:12
How would you install it in the chroot?
07:13
<ltsp_fan>
apt-get, copy .Xauthority?
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07:13
<alkisg>
Instead of learning "how to manage a chroot", you just use a vm or a template client normally
07:14
Or, suppose you want to install vbox in the chroot, and the kernel there is different than the server kernel,
07:14
and vbox complains that it can't compile its modules and fails to install
07:14
How do you solve that in a chroot?
07:15
Or, dbus postinst or grub postinst fail because of missing /sys
07:15
Lots of chroot-only problems in maintaining a chroot
07:15
<ltsp_fan>
isn't there cross-compiling tricks
07:16
<alkisg>
Finally, in the simple case of a school with e.g. 12 pcs and a server where the teacher works, the teacher pc is the ltsp server, the template client
07:16
<ltsp_fan>
i don't actually know much about chroot, so I'll go by your judgement
07:16
<alkisg>
So he just manages 1 pc and runs ltsp-update-image -c / whenever he wants the clients to get the new programs
07:16
ltsp_fan: if you want my judgement, then I think you should tell me more about how you plan to use your clients
07:17
E.g. school, business, web browsing, special apps...
07:17
<ltsp_fan>
well here we have a small university math department computer lab
07:17
5 machines for now, potential to grow to 20
07:18
<alkisg>
And, do you have some monster server, or a modest one?
07:19
<ltsp_fan>
the main reason we maintain our own lab rather than tell our students to use the university's is because we promote linux, latex, octave
07:19
modest 8-core 8 Gib ram
07:20
<alkisg>
And your lowest spec'ed client?
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07:20
<ltsp_fan>
well for now pentium 4 1 gig ram, but in the future I would like to try Raspberry Pis
07:21
I have been using edubuntu with RPI's in schools (as part of outreach efforts)
07:21
<alkisg>
Pis don't work as fat clients well, they're too slow, but I guess their users are already used to slow... :)
07:21
They're faster as ltsp clients than as standalone, so it shouldn't bother you
07:21
<ltsp_fan>
yes, i'm happy with rpi's as thin clients
07:22
we talking about rural schools in south africa that have never has computers
07:22
had
07:22
<alkisg>
Ah
07:22
<ltsp_fan>
but for our university lab i wanted to learn the nuts and bolts of ltsp and on a production server like debian?
07:23
<alkisg>
So in the future you might be deploying PI-powered ltsp installations remotely? Who will be maintaining them there? E.g. teachers?
07:23
Or sysadmins?
07:24
<ltsp_fan>
so what is best practice for ltsp... eg i haven't fully understood the pro's and cons of nfs vs nbd
07:24
<alkisg>
nfs == faster for updates, if you want to play with the chroot frequently
07:25
nbd == 5 times faster due to the compression etc
07:25
<ltsp_fan>
that's a good question, I do the maintanence, but amazingly one school has been running succesfully with zero maintanence (edubuntu, 10 rpi's)
07:25
ok i'm sold on nbd :)
07:26
<alkisg>
You can use both, nfs for testing and nbd when done testing
07:26
Maintaining different arches is difficult with ltsp-pnp, and you also want to learn things, so ok go with the chroot option
07:26
<ltsp_fan>
ahhh now I have to redo everything, I spent the whole day yesterday (and the whole morning with you :) )
07:26
<alkisg>
!fatclients
07:26
<ltsp`>
fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
07:26
<alkisg>
Something like that... ^
07:27
<ltsp_fan>
does epoptes work well with fat clients?
07:27
<alkisg>
Yup
07:29
<ltsp_fan>
what if the fat client wanted to do some heavy math computation on the server?
07:29
<alkisg>
ltsp-remoteapps app
07:30
You can also change a .desktop file for, say, matlab, so that matlab always starts as a remoteapp, even if launched from the gnome menu
07:30
<ltsp_fan>
oh like the reverse of local apps for thin clients?
07:30
<alkisg>
Yes
07:30
<ltsp_fan>
cool
07:31
and fat and thin clients can co-exist easily
07:31
<alkisg>
Yup
07:31
<ltsp_fan>
ok so we're sticking with chroot?
07:32
switching to nbd
07:33
<alkisg>
I'm not sure if it's easier to maintain a chroot with pi, or a standalone pi installation which you would then transfer to the ltsp server, but the chroot knowledge will probably help you there in any case
07:33
<ltsp_fan>
and using fat clients by default for now
07:33
<alkisg>
So yup since you'll be using Pis, ignore the ltsp-pnp method
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07:34
<ltsp_fan>
where should I start? nbd? fat client? or fixing the current problem of desktop sessions? i would prefer the last if it's OK with you?
07:35
<alkisg>
Which desktop session are you using now?
07:37
<ltsp_fan>
its weird on a user that I created fresh: both gnome and gnome-classic don't work properly, lxde also only partially works. On a user that I copied from a previous server, gnome-classic works but not gnome. also local mounting of usb doesn't work for any user
07:37
its mainly the panels that seem to be giving problems
07:39
<alkisg>
3d environments don't work properly on thin clients
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07:39
<ltsp_fan>
ok so reading your previous point should i install gnome-flashback?
07:40
<alkisg>
Hrm... since I'm proposing things... I'd suggest that you reinstalled using jessie, gnome-flashback or mate-desktop, and a fat chroot
07:40
It's easier to get support if you're using newer versions
07:41
<ltsp_fan>
can i just change the distro to jessie in the apt sources
07:41
<alkisg>
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Documentation/Jessie/Upgrades
07:42
Reading that page, I'm guessing "yup"
07:44
<ltsp_fan>
yes :)
07:44
i didn't know there was a Debian Edu
07:44
how is it different?
07:44
<alkisg>
Skolelinux
07:44
I don't know I haven't used it
07:44
They're offering some complete solution for schools
07:44
ldap and all
07:45
But it seemed to me it's too hard to be supported by teachers, so I haven't read more about it
07:45
And we implemented our own solution based on ltsp, and developed a few new programs like epoptes and sch-scripts
07:45
<ltsp_fan>
we don't use ldap, so I'm also going to skip it
07:46
wow you developed epoptes?
07:46
i don't know sch-scripts
07:47
<alkisg>
sch-scripts is about making school ltsp installations maintainable by simple teachers, without the help of local sysadmins
07:47
So it offers whatever's missing at any time
07:48
E.g. a big part now is user management...
07:48
So we're offering a GUI to add multiple students, groups, shared folders etc
07:49
<ltsp_fan>
great i'll like to use that in our next school roll out
07:49
<alkisg>
Greek only for now :)
07:50
<ltsp_fan>
epoptes always blows the mind of teachers when I demo :)
07:50
google did I good job of translating your wiki :)
07:50
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=el&u=http://ts.sch.gr/wiki/Linux/sch-scripts&prev=search
07:50
<alkisg>
Ah, nice, but the software needs to be translated too :D
07:51
<ltsp_fan>
copy paste :P
07:51
ok back to work... let me do the jessie upgrade
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08:01
<alkisg>
!learn rsyslog as To enable remote client logging in Ubuntu (it possibly also works on Debian), see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/697387/comments/9
08:01
<ltsp`>
The operation succeeded.
08:06
<ltsp_fan>
ok followed the above rsyslog instructions
08:07
<alkisg>
No that wasn't for you
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08:07
<work_alkisg>
bbl!
08:12
<ltsp_fan>
bbl!
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08:36
<qwe_>
Hi guys! Anyone is here?
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08:49
<alkisg_web>
!ask | echo qwe_:
08:49
<ltsp`>
qwe_: ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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09:11
<raul>
hii
09:12
i am testing epoptes
09:12
with a virtual machine with virtualbox
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09:12
<Guest47518>
but there is not in epoptes
09:12
someone can help me?
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09:15
<ame>
can i use any messenger in ltsp environment??
09:16
<highvoltage>
Guest47518: hey. can they ping each other?
09:16
<alkisg_web>
ame, if they use pulseaudio, yes
09:16
<highvoltage>
Guest47518: you might have to go into your network interface settings in virtualbox and set promiscuous mode to 'allow all'
09:17
<ame>
how to check that they are using pulse audio??
09:17
<alkisg_web>
ame: read the program documentation
09:17
I don't know which program you're using...
09:18
<ame>
alkisg:you know well am very new to this environment.Can u please help me to find it??
09:20
yes pulseaudio is running
09:20
<Guest47518>
nothin
09:20
nothing*
09:20
<alkisg_web>
ame: which program are you using? pidgin? skype?
09:21
Guest47518: are you using ltsp, or only epoptes?
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09:22
<ame>
am using ltsp and using epoptes for monitoring
09:22
<Guest47518>
i installed epoptes and nothing more
09:22
<ame>
i have installed lan messenger but it is satying port conflict
09:22
<alkisg_web>
Guest47518: which distribution and which version?
09:23
<Guest47518>
i am using linux mint 17
09:23
and i installed linuxmint 17 kde virtualbox
09:23
<alkisg_web>
Guest47518: when installing epoptes, use --install-recommends
09:23
<ame>
i want to use messenger only for LAN..
09:23
<alkisg_web>
ame, if it's trying to use the same port for all users, then you need to run it as a localapp
09:24
<ame>
oh ok ok
09:24
<alkisg_web>
Guest47518: do you have a linuxmint installation outside virtualbox and a linuxmint installation inside virtualbox?
09:24
<ame>
now i understood
09:24
<Guest47518>
yes
09:25
<ame>
one more doubt alkisg:Can we run thunderbird and libreoffice as localapp
09:25
??
09:27
<alkisg_web>
Yes
09:28
Guest47518: does it use NAT networking or bridge networking?
09:28
<Guest47518>
i am using
09:28
<ame>
i have tried but i cannot install and run thunderbird and libreoffice in chroot
09:28
<Guest47518>
bridge adapter
09:28* alkisg_web needs to go, bbl...
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09:29
<Guest47518>
its necesary to install epoptes en two computers?
09:30
<ame>
Guest47518:What is your actual problem??
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09:42
<Guest47518>
one question
09:42
its necessary to have installed epoptes in two computers¿
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09:51
<ame>
i have installed thunderbird on chroot /opt/ltsp/amd64.It has successfully installed.But i am trying to open it from client system through the command "ltsp-localapps thunderbird" it is not opening
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14:02
<bruno_>
hi
14:04
someone could help me?plz
14:05
I have problem with USB stick in the terminals
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14:47
<epoptes_user3>
Hi
14:47
I need help with epotes
14:47
Everythink working fine but only in one direction
14:48
I can manage clients but I can't get control them
14:49
I can watch only on minature
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15:29
<ltsp_fan>
Feedback time: mostly everything is working, i've upgraded to jessie, and got ipxe to burn to hd's for pcs without pxe bios support and for one pc not in the lab
15:29
thank you to everyone again
15:30
i know I have lot of things to still do: switch to nbd, enable fat-clients ....
15:30
<alkisg_web>
ltsp_fan: about ipxe, once you get the client booting, you can write it to its hd from either epoptes' remote terminal feature, or from screen_02=shell in lts,conf
15:30
dd if=/dev/hd1 of=/dev/hd0, where hd1=the usb stick
15:31
<ltsp_fan>
ah so that's what you were referring to yesterday :)
15:31
<alkisg_web>
*sda2 and sda1
15:31
Yes, no need to have some special boot cd to do that...
15:31
<ltsp_fan>
what get's written though?
15:32
the whole vmlinuz
15:32
or just ipxe
15:32
<alkisg_web>
Just ipxe
15:32
Not even a filesystem, there's no need to format the hd
15:32
How did you create the stick</
15:33
dd if=ipxe.usb of=/dev/sdb ?
15:33
<ltsp_fan>
yes
15:33
<alkisg_web>
You could also do it from ltsp, dd if=/usr/lib/ipxe/ipxe.usb of=/dev/sda
15:33
...to write it to the client's hd
15:33
<ltsp_fan>
you mean ipxe.usb would make a hda bootable?
15:33
<alkisg_web>
But since you already have the usb stick at sdb, just clone that
15:33
Yes
15:34
<ltsp_fan>
ahhhhh
15:34
so learning about grub2 and all that today was not necessary :(
15:34
<alkisg_web>
Haha
15:34
<ltsp_fan>
for some reason i thought that ipxe.usb wouldn't work
15:35
didn't i ask that this morning... hmm.. and yesterday i asked if i could write ipxe.iso
15:35
to hda
15:36
and then i tried it and it didn't work
15:36
ok anyway, 2 quick questions: how do you get the client to unmount the local disk
15:36
i mean usb
15:37
local_dev=true
15:37
<alkisg_web>
It gets unmounted automatically after 2 secs
15:37
<ltsp_fan>
and why doesn't gnome and gnome_flashback work? only lxde does
15:38
<alkisg_web>
Gnome doesn't work because it's 3d
15:38
<ltsp_fan>
but what about computer "hygiene"
15:38
<alkisg_web>
gnome-flashback in jessie might have a bug
15:38
<ltsp_fan>
oh and that mate-desktop didn't appear in /usr/xsessions
15:38
<alkisg_web>
It's ok wrt computers, it's just not intuitive for the users
15:39
<ltsp_fan>
and the error message: "only root can do that"
15:39
<alkisg_web>
Can do what?
15:39
<ltsp_fan>
unmount
15:40
in the file manager the nice eject button produces an error
15:40
<alkisg_web>
Yes, it's not intuitive :)
15:40
There's a launchpad bug report about that, I proposed some solution there but it's not implemented yet
15:40
<ltsp_fan>
can we give users access to umount that device (what write caches and all that)
15:40
<alkisg_web>
I don't think anyone's developing localdev anymore
15:40
cache is written automatically etc
15:40
<ltsp_fan>
what's the future then
15:40
<alkisg_web>
It's just the gui that's not intuitive
15:41
<ltsp_fan>
oh
15:41
<alkisg_web>
try these on the server: dpkg-divert /usr/lib/gnome-session/gnome-session-check-accelerated
15:41
<ltsp_fan>
ok
15:41
<alkisg_web>
ln -s /bin/true /usr/lib/gnome-session/gnome-session-check-accelerated
15:41
Then boot a client and try gnome-flashback
15:41
(as root)
15:42
I haven't tried jessie, but 14.04 suffers from that bug ^, maybe it affects jessie too
15:43
<ltsp_fan>
ln: failed to create symbolic link ‘/usr/lib/gnome-session/gnome-session-check-accelerated’: File exists
15:44
and why doesn't mate appear?
15:45
oops missed your fixed command
15:45
first
15:45
still same ln error
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15:47
<ltsp_fan>
thanks for your help gotta go :)
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16:07
<lanziofaber>
thanks
16:08
can I ask you alla a question?
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16:09
<lanziofaber>
ehi
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