IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 16 October 2015   (all times are UTC)

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09:05
<alkisg>
gbaman: ping?
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09:36
<fnurl>
a ping with no pong is a lonely ping
09:36
lost in the etherness
09:37* alkisg is thinking of putting uboot in rpi2, so that it never needs kernel updates, never writes to the sd card
09:38
<fnurl>
i'm liking that idea
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10:41
<alkisg>
fnurl: are you putting anything special to boot the rpi2 with the HDMI=>VGA adapter?
10:41
I got it working with an HDMI cable, but not with the adapter... any changes in config.txt?
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10:55
<alkisg>
I can see it with epoptes and it has 640x480, but it doesn't power up any of my monitors here...
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11:27
<gbaman>
work_alkisg: You looking me?
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12:00work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
12:00
<alkisg>
gbaman: I was thinking to put u-boot in rpi2, so that it doesn't need kernel updates in the sd card
12:00
What do you think?
12:01
<gbaman>
Last I tried that, the u-boot support for the Pi was very limited
12:01
And buggy to say the least
12:01
<alkisg>
When was that?
12:01
<gbaman>
About 6 months ago
12:01
<alkisg>
rpi or rpi2?
12:01
<gbaman>
Pi 1 as there was 0 support for Pi2 at the time
12:02
<alkisg>
I saw a lot of commits in April for rpi2, and I think they made it in main u-boot
12:02
<gbaman>
To even consider moving to u-boot, it would need to have full support for Pi1 and Pi2
12:02* alkisg is talking about upstream ltsp..
12:03
<alkisg>
If it loads the kernel, isn't that enough?
12:03
(via tftp)
12:03
<gbaman>
As it stands, the current system actually works quite nicely given the boot files are only updated every ~6 months so they rarely need updated anyway and PiNet includes a script to auto update the cards anyway
12:03
<alkisg>
Or does it need to initialize other subsystems before the kernel teakes over?
12:03
<gbaman>
It has a boot "blob" that runs before the kernel
12:04
Then loads the kernel and initramfs
12:04
<alkisg>
That would run before uboot I guess, so it would be ok
12:04
<gbaman>
Yeah
12:04
<alkisg>
About the auto-updating, when/where is your script ran?
12:04
By init-ltsp.d?
12:04
<gbaman>
In the OS bit
12:04
It then reboots the Pi if there is a change
12:05
One of the startup scripts
12:05
<alkisg>
startup as in /etc/init.d?
12:05
<gbaman>
Yip
12:05
<alkisg>
(or systemd...)
12:05
<gbaman>
Is a bit of an ugly hack, but works quite nicely
12:05
<alkisg>
AFAIK init-ltsp.d would be the proper place for it, and upstream in ltsp
12:05
<gbaman>
https://github.com/PiNet/PiNet/blob/master/Scripts/kernelCheckUpdate.sh
12:06
That is true
12:06
As can be seen, a very ugly hack :)
12:06
<alkisg>
Where are the new files, in the squashfs image?
12:06
<gbaman>
Yeah
12:07
in /bootfiles on the main image
12:08
Having the stuff on the card also makes boot a decent bit faster
12:08
<alkisg>
gbaman: about speed, have... yeah that
12:08
Did you try squashfs locally?
12:08
<gbaman>
When I was testing with u-boot, was added 10+ seconds on
12:08
<alkisg>
It should give even more speed... i.e. to dump the nbd image inside a partition
12:08
<gbaman>
What do you mean?
12:09
<alkisg>
Not the contents, but in the original squashfs format
12:09
<gbaman>
As in write it to the card?
12:09
<alkisg>
I.e. the first partition of the card would be fat32, and the second would be the squashfs image
12:09
Yes
12:09
That should make it 2.5 times faster than writing it as ext3...
12:09
<gbaman>
Na, trying to avoid writing to the cards
12:09
<alkisg>
That would be read only
12:10
squashfs is always read-only
12:10
<gbaman>
How do you decide when it needs updated on the cards?
12:10
<alkisg>
The same way as you do with the kernel etc
12:10
<gbaman>
You then also have to copy the full new image over onto the card
12:11
<alkisg>
Right. Depending on the use case, that might help a lot.
12:12
<gbaman>
Booting it all but the initial boot files off the server (using NBD and SquashFS) works quite nicely
12:12
Pi2 is at login screen in ~30 seconds
12:12
<alkisg>
How many clients per server?
12:12
E.g. if you had 100, it wouldn't be so...
12:12
<gbaman>
I run the NI Jams every month with 35 Pis without any issue
12:12
And most schools that is all they will have
12:12
<alkisg>
Or if you had 100 mbps network on the server side
12:13
(many schools have that, here)
12:13
<gbaman>
We tell people they can't use 100mbit/s network cards/hardware with PiNet :)
12:13
<alkisg>
An ltsp client booting needs about 50 MB, so 20 clients is 1 GB
12:13
<gbaman>
But, the Pis are slow so they won't need it all at once
12:13
<alkisg>
With gigabit networking, that's about 10 seconds, with 100 mbps it's like 100 seconds
12:14
<gbaman>
And max out anyway at pulling about 50mbit/s usually anyway
12:14
<alkisg>
Same while opening libreoffice (needs 120 MB) etc
12:14
<gbaman>
Libreoffice is a good example actually
12:14
<alkisg>
Are the users able to watch fullscreen youtube?
12:14
<gbaman>
It isn't the network speed that is the limiting factor using for libreoffice, it is the pi just being slow
12:14
Yip
12:15
Using Epiphany browser
12:15
<alkisg>
On 100 mbps networks, it is, having 2 GB travel over the network...
12:15
<gbaman>
The hardware accelerated one
12:15
I have no idea
12:15
<alkisg>
The stock one from raspbian?
12:15
<gbaman>
As previously mentioned, we don't recommend 100mbit/s networks
12:15
Yip
12:15
<alkisg>
Strange, here it's only showing <10 fps while full screen
12:16
It's ok when ran no-full screen
12:16
<gbaman>
With a Pi 2?
12:16
<alkisg>
Yes
12:16
<gbaman>
I have easily been able to play youtube videos at a decent framerate on the pi?
12:16
<alkisg>
What about vlc? Are you using the hw accelerated version? Or the other player that starts from o* and I don't remember its name?
12:16
<gbaman>
Vimeo videos I believe are a tad more optimised too
12:16
Omxplayer is the hardware accelerated one
12:16
VLC isn't
12:17
On the Pi anyway
12:17
<alkisg>
There are patches for vlc
12:17
So, the users can't e.g. jump to a specific point, or view subtitles... with omxplayer...
12:17
<gbaman>
Of course, it has to be remembered that the Pi Foundation has a very small engineering team
12:17
~15-20 for hardware and software
12:17
<alkisg>
Would you say that the schools are satisfied with that solution? As compared e.g. to a normal ltsp installation?
12:18
<gbaman>
Schools very rarely use them for watching videos
12:18
<alkisg>
Ah, only for programming?
12:18
<gbaman>
Remember the Pi is targeted at coding in schools
12:18
Yeah
12:18
<alkisg>
Some schools here were asking if they could build normal computer labs with rpi2
12:18
<gbaman>
I do have the odd school though that has setup desktop shortcuts for ltsp-remoteapps firefox :)
12:18
<alkisg>
...and I was going to say no, but I wanted a second opinion... :)
12:19
<gbaman>
And have a powerful machine running the server
12:19
<alkisg>
Sure, for thin clients they'd be fine
12:19
<gbaman>
Well, it very much depends what you class as normal
12:19
Well, that allows them to mix it
12:19
So they still have full access to the local hardware on the Pi for most stuff
12:19
Then if they need it, can use a full fat browser
12:20
<alkisg>
Unfortunately we don't have any PI-specific classes here for the time being
12:20
<gbaman>
They are getting very popular here in the UK
12:21
<alkisg>
I imagine that pi being developed there would help...
12:21
<gbaman>
The next version of PiNet will include anonymous metrics, so will be interesting to see how many people are actually using it on a day to day basis
12:21
Will include the number of users on the system
12:21
<alkisg>
Ah, I was surfing the other day and I saw some persons in the forums saying "ltsp is dead, pinet replaced it"
12:21
<gbaman>
Hahaha
12:22
<alkisg>
Maybe you could clear it up that pinet is based on ltsp...
12:22
<gbaman>
It is on the site in quite a few places..
12:22
Although people have a habit of not reading...
12:22
(something I have certainly noticed from the support emails...(
12:22
)
12:22
<alkisg>
Did you try out any of the latest ltsp versions?
12:23
I had numerous fixes for systemd, desktop session etc...
12:23
<gbaman>
No?
12:23
Assuming it isn't in the Ubuntu repos yet?
12:23
<alkisg>
LTSP in Ubuntu is quite broken
12:23
But I thought that you were using the debian repos
12:24
(the client side is what matters most)
12:24
<gbaman>
Nope, Ubuntu repos?
12:24
<alkisg>
You're using an ubuntu chroot?
12:24
Not a debian one?
12:24
with raspbian etc?
12:24
<gbaman>
PiNet prefixes the ltsp-build-client with VENDOR=Debian
12:25
<alkisg>
And your sources point to raspbian?
12:25
<gbaman>
Yip
12:25
<alkisg>
So you do have a debian chroot, not a broken ubuntu one
12:25
OK
12:25
<gbaman>
Cool
12:25
Will in the next month be moving to Raspbian Jessie
12:25
<alkisg>
I tried it already, it worked fine for me
12:26
<gbaman>
Anything new in that for LTSP?
12:26
<alkisg>
A new release has made it to stretch, vagrantc will probably backport it to jessie....
12:26
It defaults to NBD now
12:26
<gbaman>
Already using that anyway
12:26
<alkisg>
So, I'll be committing some pi-related stuff upstream in LTSP, keep an eye in case something affects pinet
12:27
E.g. what things go in tftp, new ltsp-config stuff...
12:27
<gbaman>
As in, stuff that will break PiNet?
12:28
<alkisg>
I don't believe so.... it would just make things easier
12:28
E.g. tools in upstream ltsp to write the sd cards etc
12:29
Thanks for the chat gbaman, keep up the good work.
12:29alkisg is now known as work_alkisg
12:30
<gbaman>
Cool
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16:31
<lbssousa>
Phantomas, I've just answered you in https://bugs.launchpad.net/epoptes/+bug/1504547
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16:57
<thedarkener>
PiNet looks kinda cool =} Wondering how it would just stack up against stock LTSP though
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17:01
<||cw>
thedarkener: far as I know, it is LTSP. the thing with Pis is that they don't PXE, so there's an image on them to netboot, and pinet manages that
17:15
<thedarkener>
||cw: couldn't they just distribute the SD card image directly and not have the whole installation process? Or does it install all of the LTSP bits as well automatically?
17:18
<work_alkisg>
ltsp-server, ldm-server, ltspfs etc are required server-side
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17:18
<work_alkisg>
And a method to update the chroot contents is necessary as well, i.e. ltsp-chroot
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17:27
<||cw>
thedarkener: they could, but the target is schools and teachers, and they tend to prefer things be all-in-one.
17:27
the underlying tools are still the tools LTSP uses though, so it's effectively the same
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19:53
<Tex>
question: still can't find where a failed print job for a user is getting flagged after moving to a new server setup. It shows at 'printer out of paper' on an old queue after cutting over to a new server.
19:53
do these jobs get annotated somewhere in the user directory in addition to the actual print queue?
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20:24
<bennabiy>
Tex: what distro?
20:25
<Tex>
Ubuntu 14.04 (moved from 10.04 if that has any impact)
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22:43
<sbalneav>
Afternoon all
22:43
At the LTSP BTS conference.
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22:47
<djohnsto1>
sbalneav: Hello, Scotty.
22:49
<sbalneav>
Hey djohnsto1!
22:50
https://code.launchpad.net/ltsp
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23:46
<MiKrO_>
hi
23:49
a question, I have a running server with 24GB of RAM and 6-core Xeon. It is normal for a network with 12 computers from a couple of teams see the slow video sessions become even freeze?
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