IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 8 April 2013   (all times are UTC)

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09:28
<ltspuser_31>
Is it possible to build a LTSP Client that only depend on DHCP and TFTP? I mean a image that I can boot with use of ipxe and has no dependency's to a ltsp-server. A simple client that only has only a rdesktop client and nothing more.
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09:29ltspuser_31 is now known as bshogeman
09:32
<elias_a>
bshogeman: Could you elaborate a little? What would the client get through TFTP?
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09:54
<vlt>
ltsp: Maybe you want to put rdesktop and all dependencies right into the initrd image.
09:57
<bshogeman>
TFTP or HTTP what is supported. Ipxe can boot both as long as it is a img file or has a kernel and initrd
09:59
booting those files isn't a problem but access to NBD or NFS is. So my question is canthe ltsp client be build without this? So it runs without a ltsp server and can boot from a M$ dhcp and tftp server
10:00
and yes I want to put all in the initrd.
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10:37
<alkisg>
There are nbd and nfs server for ms windows available... and you can even put the root file system in a windows samba share
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11:09
<bshogeman>
But what is the use of a NFS / NBD server if it can boot standalone from LAN? All clients have enough ram (2Gb). A NFS or NBD server seems to me is only limiting the concurrent clients I can boot.
11:10
If it can fit in one image that whould be my first choice.
11:11
<ogra_>
how many thousand do you plan to serve from one server that this concerns you ?
11:13
putting everything into the initrd will make your booting really slow
11:14
nbd/nfs dont transfer the whole image, they mount it over the network ... an initrd has to be fully transferred to the client first
11:17
(a typical ltsp image is around 200M (+/- 50M or so) , your initrd would have to shovel the whole thing over the net first before being able to make any use of it ... while nbd/nfs will only transfer bits on read()/open() )
11:21
<bshogeman>
1000 or 2000 at the most I think. All clients of staff on the 8 buildings of the school.
11:22
<ogra_>
off one server ?
11:22
if that is also the thin client application server you will need gigantic amounts of ram
11:23
<bshogeman>
they now boot a 300Mb WinPE version. But that doesn't support widescreen.
11:23
<elias_a>
Sounds like a really heavy environment :)
11:24
<ogra_>
ah, so they will be fat clients (running the full desktop locally) instead of thin (logging in to a central sever running the desktop)
11:24
that doesnt have such high ram reqs. then
11:24
<bshogeman>
no one is turning them off ;) not all schools have the same start time so load is balanced by its own
11:25
300Mb takes a minute to boot so it is already faster than a pc with all policy's
11:25
<ogra_>
heh
11:25
<bshogeman>
and if you aren't lucky some minutes longer but still reasenble fast
11:26
<ogra_>
my ubuntu laptop takes 7sec (after BIOS)
11:26
i would be pissed if it took even 30sec :)
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11:31
<bshogeman>
can anyone repost the text typed after 7 seconds to boot
11:31
my connection timed out somehow
11:31
<ogra_>
<ogra_> my ubuntu laptop takes 7sec (after BIOS)
11:31
<ogra_> i would be pissed if it took even 30sec :)
11:31
nothing else
11:31
<bshogeman>
ok tnx :)
11:32
<ogra_>
in any case, if yoou want your rootfs to live inside the initrd, thats not how ltsp works so you would have to code a lot yourself to make that happen
11:33
<bshogeman>
but howmany clients you think could use one NFS server? What must I think of?
11:33
<ogra_>
dunno, but i would guess leass than an nbd one
11:33
*less
11:33
<bshogeman>
or NBD I don't know the difference
11:34
okee so I can better use nbd
11:34
<ogra_>
one offers a filesystem by default (nfs) the other a compressed image (nbd)
11:34
nbd is more like a harddisk on the LAN while lfs is a filesystem on the LAN
11:35
s/lfs/nfs/
11:35
<elias_a>
bshogeman: Where is this school center?
11:36
<bshogeman>
loaded one time without issues when power failures occurred?
11:36
What do you mean by school center?
11:36
We have 2 data centers where all runs from
11:36
<elias_a>
bshogeman: Well, this place of yours.
11:37
bshogeman: And the users are school staff?
11:37
What kind of school?
11:37
<bshogeman>
secondary school
11:38
age 12 - 17
11:39
<elias_a>
bshogeman: And you are running administrative sw which is compatible with linux?
11:39
Or are these computers used for learning & teaching?
11:40
<bshogeman>
Yes all are cisco switches. All is configurable. 10Gb backbone so that isn't a problem.
11:41
none of both. For teaching (pc's in front of the classroom) and learning (students) where are only fat clients used.
11:42
The only thing we use thinclients for is all other workstations
11:43
think if room where teachers can work without a class, and not all personal is teaching.
11:44
And yes still so many mini pc's that run as diskless thinclients.
11:44
<elias_a>
bshogeman: Your approach is really interesting.
11:45
It is a long time I have met somebody who has so many various uses in mind.
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11:46
<elias_a>
bshogeman: What I meant with admininistrative sw is software. In Finland the problem is that administrative software is very often windows binaries.
11:46
<bshogeman>
I only want to use ltsp for the mini pc's that run as thinclient (connect to a windows rdp enviroment). All fat clients are as they are. Not all student software is compatible with rdp
11:47
So it isn't that various. It is only one group of computers in the whole enviroment.
11:48
<ogra_>
then just go with plain ltsp set up for rdp
11:48
that will be the easiest
11:48
<bshogeman>
But I learned now I must use NBD and can't live without it if I want the clients to boot faster.
11:48
<ogra_>
nbd or nfs are suppported out of the box
11:48
<elias_a>
bshogeman: Good luck in any case!
11:49
<bshogeman>
Tnx!
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18:48
<alkisg>
vagrantc: http://ddtp.debian.net/ddtss/index.cgi/el/translated/el/logs/1365446294/ltsp-server
18:48
Package descriptions for all ltsp components + epoptes are now translated in Greek :)
18:50
Although it would make much more sense to me if package translations were done upstream, not in distros...
18:50
<vagrantc>
well, package descriptions are only shipped in the debian/control file
18:51
though upstream could ship some boilerplate
18:52
<alkisg>
Right, they could just include the short+long descriptions somewhere so that it's picked up in the .pot file
18:52
Then debian, fedora etc could extract whatever they need from the .po's
18:53
<vagrantc>
could use the substitution stuff we implemended for X-Debian-Depends in a similar way
18:53
i.e. ${Upstream:Description}
18:54
not sure how the translation infrastructure for that works at all, though.
18:54
<alkisg>
I've sent a mail to debian-i18n, let's see if anyone answers... http://lists.debian.org/debian-i18n/2013/04/msg00011.html
18:55
I could automate the .po => ddtp upload in any way, even with curl + the existing web site, or with emails...
18:55
But I'd like an "OK" first from them..
18:57
Ah, about debian/control, this only contains the english description, not the translations
18:57
The translations go in a translations.gz file in the repositories
19:17
<Hyperbyte>
mhm
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20:34
<Enslaver>
hi all
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