IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 2 December 2010   (all times are UTC)

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06:14
<jimjimovich>
anyone know a good way to send a message to all LTSP users (for example, that you're going to restart the machine in 15 min)?
06:21
<muppis>
I don't rememer actual application name, but using same as is used when leaving message to user who has locked the screen.
06:21
And looping thru logged users.
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06:36
<jimjimovich>
looks like notify-send might do the job
06:38
<muppis>
Sounds familiar. Rught now I don't have system in hand to test.
06:38
Right.. My fingers and N900..
06:39
<jimjimovich>
:)
06:41
<muppis>
Next weekend I'm doing a lot of testing with ltsp, wlan and xbmc.
06:48
Plan to get ltsp working with internal wlan, even if I had to use internal hdd for booting.
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06:55
<jimjimovich>
muppis: you think that wlan is fast enough for that?
06:58
<muppis>
jimjimovich, propably not. Just testing it for demo purposes.
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07:03
<muppis>
I've seen used dd-wrt based Buffalo AirStations as converter to boot in ltsp. Want to get rid from that even it won't be pure diskless system.
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07:22
<bigd>
hey together
07:24
i'm currently facing a weird problem
07:24
maybe someone has a suggestion on a posible solution
07:25
the thinclients all hang/stuck if the loose connection to the ltsp-server, like while server is rebooting
07:26
is there a posibility to let them shutdown if they loose connection to the server instead of hanging?
07:26
<mgariepy>
bigd, are you using nbd-proxy ?
07:27
<bigd>
yes
07:27
<mgariepy>
bigd, when the server comes back they should reconnect
07:28
<bigd>
only if the server is back in less then 1 min
07:28
if it takes longer the freez
07:29
they
07:29
<mgariepy>
to shut them down. you can use ctrl+ sysrq + o
07:30
<bigd>
sysrq ?
07:30
<mgariepy>
print screen.
07:30
on my kb, i have print screen/sysrq
07:31
<bigd>
ah, ok ... german kb ;-)
07:31
but the clients have no kb at all
07:32
they have touchscreens
07:32
<mgariepy>
hmm, what version of linux are you using ?
07:32
ubuntu lucid ?
07:32
<bigd>
Xubuntu 10.04.1
07:33
im currenlty also trying Xu 10.10
07:33
same problem
07:34
with our current production setup with Ubuntu 8.04 the clients at least stay reachable thru ssh
07:34
so i can shut them down manually
07:35
the clients show following errors:
07:35
<mgariepy>
did you tried to disable nbd-proxy ?
07:36
<bigd>
nbd0: Attempted send on closed socket
07:36
yea, made no difference
07:36
my colleg tryed that
07:36
<mgariepy>
ok
07:37
<bigd>
so im not 100% sure what he did exactly
07:37
the rest of the errors shown
07:37
end_request: I/O error, dev nbd0, sector
07:37
SQUASHFS error: squashfs_read_data failed to read block
07:37
SQUASHFS error: Unable to read metadata cache entry
07:38
SQUASHFS error: Unable to read directory block
07:38
i have already tried the mentioned solution in Bug #457702
07:38
but with no luck
07:42
<mgariepy>
hmm i have no idea right now
07:43
the bug #457702 is not quite related to that, it was about a problem when trying to shutdown the thin client via ldm.
07:44
<bigd>
i know, but as the error was neraly the same
07:45
if at least SSH would stay reachable i would be happy
07:46
i guess it has something to do with nbd and that the root-filesystem gets lost
07:47
<mgariepy>
yeah, with nbd-proxy, when the filesystem gets disconnected, it puts it in IOWait, at lease it's supposed
07:48
at least**
07:48
<bigd>
yeah, and it seems that doesn't wait
07:49
+nbd-proxy
07:51
can some processes "bypass" that IOwait?
07:51
would fit to that behavier
07:52
<mgariepy>
hmm maybe if all the binaries are already in cache.
07:53
but i'm not sure.
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07:54
<bigd>
ah, the clients continues throwing that error above ... when i try ssh they chrush completly
07:54
just in case that makes any difference
07:55
sorry ... "when i to connect via ssh"
07:57
+ try
08:00
you know how the end of the IOwait is triggerd?
08:02
maybe the real problem is that nbd-proxy doesn't "stops" waiting
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08:20
<bigd>
test
08:21
<mgariepy>
do you see the thin client try to reconnect to the ltsp-server when it comes back ?
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08:23
<Gadi>
Mip5: sorry about yesterday - didn't mean to leave you hanging. Got drawn into meetings and before I knew it, it was time to get home for the kids
08:24
<bigd>
were do you mean? as they usually hung completly i didn't cared about that
08:25
the user or in the logs?
08:26
<mgariepy>
bigd, the nbd connexion, doest the thin client try to reconnect it when the server gets back ?
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08:27
<bigd>
nope, or at least there is nothing that lets me see that
08:27
they continue with the "SQUASHFS"-Errors
08:28
<mgariepy>
you can see it on the nbd server.
08:29
<bigd>
in the logs or by a command?
08:29
<mgariepy>
in the log
08:31
Dec 2 02:48:23 ltsp-server nbd_server[858]: connect from 128.0.0.7, assigned file is /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
08:31
something like that in syslog.
08:31
<bigd>
wait, ill try it again to have §fresh" logs
08:39
cool ... new strange behavier ... now it shows the login-screen at the clients
08:39
just seconds after the server is gone
08:39
but all text i cryted
08:39
is
08:40
strange signs what ever
08:40
when the server was back i tried to login
08:40
syslog says nothing abot nbd
08:41
just "ldminfod[..]: connect from ... (...)
08:42
but instead of a desktop the clients crushes and throws again thoses errors
08:42
squashfs-erro etc
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08:44
<bigd>
and now after trying "ctlr+alt+del" the clients hangs completly again, but like said befor, in production the wont have a kb anyway
08:44
they
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08:51
<bigd>
so ... the server seems to never recieve an nbd reconnect
08:52
<mgariepy>
hmm i really have no idea now
08:53
<Gadi>
so, impromptu poll - anyone have any sound issues? I found a race condition and just want to confirm if others have been bitten by it
08:54
<mgariepy>
Gadi, dgross yesterday had some.
08:54
<Gadi>
so, I have some thin clients that start pulseaudio before the soundcard is ready
08:54
<alkisg>
bigd: this should work for most of the cases: while nbd-client -c /dev/nbd0; do reboot --help; sleep 10; done; reboot -fp
08:54
Put it in an rc script on the client
08:54
<ogra_ac>
Gadi, get slower clients
08:55
<Gadi>
mgariepy: so, you see pulseaudio happily running, but apps get stream errors when trying to create a stream
08:55
mgariepy: I can fix it by starting pulseaudio out of udev
08:55
anyone take issue with that?
08:56
<mgariepy>
dgross yesterday had an issue with soundcard not detecting headphone.
08:56
<alkisg>
Gadi: doesn't pulseaudio start anyway in recent distros? I mean, wouldn't it be enough to patch its configuration file?
08:56
<ogra_ac>
alkisg, in the desktop session
08:57
<Gadi>
alkisg: well, we run it as a system process
08:57
<ogra_ac>
pulse doesnt start on a system level in any distro
08:57
<alkisg>
Ah, ok
08:57
<Gadi>
not sure if we couldn't run it as a desktop session process?
08:57
<alkisg>
Why is it a good thing ... yeah that? ^^^
08:57
<ogra_ac>
from ldm ?
08:57
<alkisg>
What does rdesktop need? pulse or alsa?
08:57
<ogra_ac>
you need to run the daemon on the client
08:58
but indeed there is no reason to not start it from ldm (we did that in the past btw)
08:58
<Gadi>
we did?
08:58
when?
08:59
I thought we always ran it from init
08:59
<ogra_ac>
nah
08:59
when i implemented sound first with esd it was run from ldm ...
08:59
<Gadi>
back when ldm was python?
08:59
<ogra_ac>
even hardcoded
08:59
<Gadi>
yuck
09:00* Gadi shakes head at ogra_ac
09:00
<ogra_ac>
then pulse came around and we just added an if condition to fire off pulse
09:00
<Gadi>
you were so young then
09:00
<ogra_ac>
depending on what binary was there
09:00
yeah
09:00
less wrinkled
09:00
i think its valuable to have it run from pulse
09:00
err
09:00
ldm
09:01
<Gadi>
how come?
09:01
<ogra_ac>
but you should do it at ldm startup
09:01
not at login time
09:01* Gadi thinks a sound daemon should run when/if there a soundcard comes up
09:01
<ogra_ac>
that way you can have a11y support (like the drum sound in ubuntu when gdm comes up)
09:01
<Gadi>
wait - that's a plus?
09:01
:)
09:01
<ogra_ac>
why would you need the soundcard before any login manager is there ?
09:02
ask visually impaired people ;)
09:02
<alkisg>
bigd: this one's better, as it uses the magic sysrq file so it doesn't call `reboot --help` all the time to force keeping it in RAM:
09:02
while nbd-client -c /dev/nbd0; do sleep 60; done; echo b > /proc/sysrq-trigger
09:02
<Gadi>
you need a soundcard to play a sound
09:02
<ogra_ac>
yes, but when do you play sounds ?
09:02
<Gadi>
when you have a soundcard
09:02
<ogra_ac>
only if a userspace app does it
09:02
<Gadi>
:P
09:02
userspace apps can't play a sound when the soundcard's not there
09:03
<ogra_ac>
indeed
09:03
nor when the soundserver isnt there
09:03
<Gadi>
exactly
09:03
but the apps shouldnt start the sound server
09:03
the card should
09:03
if the sound server is ready, the app can use it
09:03
<alkisg>
Gadi: but pulse isn't needed for shell or rdesktop SCREENs, so it makes sense to start it from LDM, right?
09:04
<bigd>
aaaahm ... what does "nbd_server: Disconnect request received." mean? the client is running and seems working without problems ... or is that normal?
09:04
<ogra_ac>
write an upstart job then ;)
09:04
<Gadi>
why not udev?
09:04
<ogra_ac>
becaue its userspace ?
09:04
<Gadi>
what is? the daemon?
09:04
<ogra_ac>
yep
09:05
i would use udev for devices but upstart/init for other stuff
09:05
or even go up one more level and use ldm for it
09:05
given that you need a custom startup anyway
09:06
and can never use the distro defaults
09:06
<Gadi>
so, just move it into an ldm/rc.d script
09:06
<ogra_ac>
yeah
09:07
<Gadi>
hmm...
09:07
<ogra_ac>
that way you also make sure it doesnt get in your way with rdesktop
09:07
you could even run it with user permissions
09:07
since you have uid and gui
09:07
which adds safety
09:07
<Gadi>
as opposed to --system
09:08
<ogra_ac>
right
09:08
<bigd>
ok ... leaving the original problem unsolved ... can i tragger somehow that all clients shutdown when the server shutsdown/reboots?
09:08
<Gadi>
which comes with all the skull and crossbones warnings
09:08
<ogra_ac>
s/gui/gid
09:08
<bigd>
or (ideal way) let the clients shutdown if the loose connection to the server?
09:09
*trigger
09:09
<Gadi>
ogra_ac: the only thing that doesn't solve yet is whether the sound card is ready
09:09
but, I suppose we can background it and have it wait for the soundcard to come up
09:09
or something
09:09
<ogra_ac>
well, if X comes up the card should really better be ready
09:10
<Gadi>
how do you know?
09:10
<ogra_ac>
you can check for it in /dev from your rc script
09:10
<Gadi>
right
09:10
<ogra_ac>
and background a loop until its up
09:11
<Gadi>
unless there's no card
09:11
and then we have a looping process
09:11
:P
09:11
I suppose best to not have a loop
09:11
and just a check
09:11
<ogra_ac>
k
09:11
<Gadi>
or maybe have it start upon login
09:11
that way, you can logout/login
09:11
and fix it
09:11
<ogra_ac>
then you lose the opportunity for a11y support
09:12
<Gadi>
perchance
09:12
hmm...
09:12
fine
09:12
on init
09:12
<ogra_ac>
or do both :)
09:13
if it doesnt come up on init, firs it up on login
09:13
*fire
09:13
<Gadi>
hmm... and I suppose this way, pulse will die with X, so it will relaunch on logout/login
09:14
<ogra_ac>
yep
09:14
introduce a new LDM_A11Y var ;)
09:14
<alkisg>
bigd: I wrote you a solution above, but you ignored it.
09:14
<ogra_ac>
that would start it on ldm startup and play a sound
09:15
if its not set, just run it at login time with user credentials
09:15
<Gadi>
too complicated
09:15
let's just start it on init
09:15
if you didn't get your sound, you can get it next time you login
09:15
:)
09:15
<bigd>
oh, sorry, just saw it
09:16
alkisg, in which rc-folder i put that?
09:16
<alkisg>
!lts.conf
09:16
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "lts.conf" :: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
09:16
<alkisg>
See RC_FILES there ^^^
09:17
E.g. RCFILE_01
09:18
<bigd>
thanks, ill give it a try
09:19
<alkisg>
You're welcome. I'm not sure if a different device is needed because of nbd-proxy - I don't use nbd-proxy.
09:19
Try it from a SCREEN_02 first to verify that it works for you
09:19
!SCREEN_02
09:19
<ltspbot`>
alkisg: "SCREEN_02" :: to get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using%20a%20shell%20SCREEN
09:20
<alkisg>
Leave it running there, and execute `sudo killall nbd-server` on the server
09:20
Works for me.
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09:52
<bigd>
oh, alkisg is already gone ... maybe someone else can anser whats the reason not to use?
09:52
+w
09:52
ups ... not to use nbd-proxy
09:53
<mgariepy>
bigd, with some network card it doesn't work correctly
09:53
<bigd>
ah, ok
09:55
hmm ... maybe ill try it tomorrow w/o nbd-proxy under 10.10 ...
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13:20
<robehend1>
how do you guys manage the desktop settings of users on LTSP? the /etc/skele file? I'm talking adding icons to all desktops, locking down the panels, adding/removing menus, the whole she-bang
13:22
<Gadi>
robehend1: sabayon can help with that
13:23
<robehend1>
Gadi: I've tried Sabayon, and am currently using it. Problem I have is when I want to update a profile, Sabayon crashes more than runs, or simply doesnt apply. I usually have to build a whole new profile and apply it to the users, which takes much to long
13:23
<Gadi>
yeah, it crashed on me until I fixed it
13:23
:)
13:23
<robehend1>
oh, do tell
13:23
<ogra_ac>
did you file bugs so people can fix it ?
13:24
<Gadi>
python is not very forgiving
13:24
<robehend1>
and sadly beyond my scope
13:24
<Gadi>
I fixed it just last week and IMd scotty
13:24
it was a one line fix
13:24* Gadi looks for it
13:24
<Gadi>
one sec
13:34
ok, edit /usr/share/pyshared/sabayon/storage.py
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13:34
<Gadi>
and change
13:34
if backup:
13:34
os.remove (backup)
13:34
to .....
13:34
if backup:
13:34
try:
13:34
os.remove (backup)
13:34
except:
13:34
pass
13:34
that fixed it for me
13:35
<robehend1>
hmm, alright, let me get into the server and see what i can do
13:36
<Gadi>
(it's on line 697
13:36
or so
13:36
)
13:36
<robehend1>
is python spacing dependant? Not familiar with it
13:37
<vagrantc>
very much so
13:37
<robehend1>
ah, alrighty. will make sure to keep formatting then
13:39
<dberkholz>
pay attention to spaces vs tabs too
13:39
<robehend1>
ack. i used a combination of both.
13:39
<dberkholz>
python has no idea how many spaces a tab is equivalent to
13:40
<Gadi>
vaery readable - not very forgiving
13:40
:)
13:40
<robehend1>
haha
13:40
<dberkholz>
so it's best if it's all one way or the other, doesn't really matter which
13:40
<robehend1>
so for that code, what would be the best way to get it in there
13:40
<Gadi>
spaces
13:41
seems the authors use the 4 spaces format
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13:41
<robehend1>
ah alright
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13:45
<robehend1>
there all done with spaces
13:45
<komunista>
!lts.conf
13:45
<ltspbot`>
komunista: "lts.conf" :: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
13:46
<moldy>
4 spaces is pretty popular for python, see PEP8
13:46
i wouldn't call it a "de facto standard", but it's pretty close to it
13:48
<robehend1>
ack, i've failed some how. I'm getting an "IndentationError: expected an indented block"
13:49
<moldy>
robehend1: that means the indentation is missing or inconsistent
13:50
<robehend1>
moldy: ah, ok. I think i found my error, testing now
13:50
<moldy>
(python does not care how you indent, as long as you do it consistently)
13:51
<robehend1>
tricksy language, isnt it
13:51
<moldy>
not really
13:51
<robehend1>
ah, there, got it.
13:52
<moldy>
if python complains about your indentation, your indentation would be bad style in any language
13:52
<robehend1>
you were right, when i cleared out my tabs, i didnt add enough spaces
13:52
i think i just need to sit down for a while and start breaking into python. I've never taken the time
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13:53
<moldy>
which editor are you using?
13:53
any decent editor should make this trivial :)
13:54
<robehend1>
just was using vi, since i was ssh'd in
13:56
<moldy>
vi/vim is great
13:57
if you're using vim, see http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Super_retab
13:57
<robehend1>
i'm not as familiar with it as i'd like to be, since I started with Nano.
13:58
<moldy>
and also http://henry.precheur.org/vim/python
13:58
(though many distros should come with a vim pre-configured for python these days)
13:59
<robehend1>
hmm, alright
14:02
<Gadi>
did it fix the crashing for you?
14:02
<robehend1>
haven't been able to check yet, sadly. just had an issue with our Moodle server crop up. Love me some k-12 education days
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14:52
<alkisg>
Hi vagrantc, do you have a moment to tell me what parts of the filesystem are writeable (and when) when a client boots with NFS? The initramfs is always writeable, and in the end the bind-mounted directories are writeable, right? So the checks for non-writeable /etc/hostname etc are only before the bindmounts function is called?
14:54
And that function is called from the initramfs/nfs-bottom/ltsp? (the ltsp_bindmounts file is missing on Lucid...)
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15:03
<vagrantc>
alkisg: basically, yes.
15:04
alkisg: client/initscripts/ltsp-bindmounts lists the various defaults for what gets mounted in debian, at least.
15:04
some of which may not be present (i.e. older debian versions)
15:04
<alkisg>
I think there's a bug report about it missing on lucid
15:04
<vagrantc>
not at all surprising
15:05
alkisg: i'm not sure what checks of /etc/hostname you're talking about
15:06
the mounts would happen in initramfs/nfs-bottom/ltsp ... so it depends when the writeability checks happen
15:07
<alkisg>
E.g. in nfs-bottom/ltsp, we have some checks there
15:07
cat /proc/sys/kernel/hostname > ${rootmnt}/etc/hostname || true
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if echo '# Generated by ltsp' 2>/dev/null > "$rootmnt/etc/resolv.conf"; then
15:07
So those aren't needed?
15:08
<vagrantc>
?
15:08
i don't see what's not needed about them
15:08
<alkisg>
If we know that /etc/hostname is writeable, why check if it is?
15:09
(just as an example for me to understand the mechanism - I wasn't thinking of those specific lines...)
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15:09* vagrantc doesn't see that as *checking* the writeability of /etc/hostname
15:10
<alkisg>
# Check if $rootmnt/etc/resolv.conf is writable
15:10
<vagrantc>
ah, that one
15:11
someone could request that it not be writeable
15:11
i.e. change the LTSP_RW_* variables
15:11
<alkisg>
Ah, I see
15:12
<vagrantc>
no harm in having it there, is there?
15:13
<alkisg>
No no I was thinking about writing some configuration files and letting the normal os initscripts process them instead of writing the processing code ourselves...
15:13
Erm I'm not expressing that well, I'll give a specific example when I find one :)
15:14
Thanks for the lesson!
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21:08-leguin.freenode.net- [freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
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<chupacabra>
http://austinteapotparty.com/node/1
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