IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 19 March 2013   (all times are UTC)

00:12jammcq has left IRC (jammcq!~jam@c-69-245-75-255.hsd1.mi.comcast.net, Quit: leaving)
00:29
<Enslaver>
Can we add a link to my RHEL rpm version on http://www.ltsp.org/download/ ?
00:32
<ogra_>
Enslaver, http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation seems more appropriate
00:32
but a hint that there are RH packages should be on the front page indeed
00:33* ogra_ has no say though ... just a gut feeling
00:33
<Enslaver>
well if i were looking to download ltsp, i'd goto ltsp and click download
00:34
<ogra_>
did you try any of the other distro links there yet ?
00:35
(and did you read the text)
00:35
<Enslaver>
yes
00:35
they link to distro
00:35
<ogra_>
to the std. distro iso downloads
00:35
<Enslaver>
this will link to the epel repo
00:35
<ogra_>
but then the text would be totally wrong
00:36
i would add a RH download link to the front page and the detailed install links to the install wikipage
00:36
to not break the scheme
00:36
or redesign the scheme ...
00:37
but mixing it in like that seems wrong ... again, i have no say in ltsp anymore ... others might think different :)
00:38
<Enslaver>
i'd prefer it redesigned, i'll talk to alk and hyper when they get back
00:39
<ogra_>
my ltsp days are long ago... just a lurker here :)
00:39
<Enslaver>
you don't love us anymore? :(
00:39
<ogra_>
not true ... i'll be at BTS this year :)
00:40
<Enslaver>
I might make it as well, depends on the dates
00:40
<ogra_>
i just dont have the time and moved into the arm world for the last few years
00:41
<sbalneav>
hmmm. Might work... might work...
00:41* ogra_ would love to spend a litte time on ltsp once again, but i fear i wont recognize any of the code anymore :)
00:42
<ogra_>
sbalneav, wrong term ...
00:42
s/might/will/
00:42
:)
00:42
<Enslaver>
its just like riding a bike
00:43
just more black and white
00:43
<ogra_>
well, if you built the bike and the pedals suddenly have to be used backwards ....
00:44
(and you havent ridden a bike in years)
00:45
<sbalneav>
Miiiiiiiiiight work.
00:45* sbalneav in deep thought about localdevs
00:45
<ogra_>
http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation
00:45
oops
00:45
http://lwn.net/Articles/543355/rss
00:45
yay
00:49
<Enslaver>
ogra_: You could always help test my rhel ltsp release and learn the new ways of the force =)
00:49
<ogra_>
hahaha
00:49
i used my last RH with 4.2
00:49
<Enslaver>
The dark side is the new way
00:49
<ogra_>
i will use it again if lennart is gone
00:49
promised
00:50
<Enslaver>
whats a lennart?
00:50
<ogra_>
Mr. pulseaudio ... Mr. systemd ... and Mr. avahi
00:51
<Enslaver>
so thats a person?
00:51
<ogra_>
heh, you use RH and dont know lennart poettering ?
00:51
thats surprising
00:52
<Enslaver>
I don't use RH
00:53
sorry i should have said el6 based ltsp release =)
00:53
<ogra_>
whats el6 ?
00:54
i thought thats a redhat thing
00:54
<Enslaver>
el6 based
00:54
rh based i mean
00:54
like ubuntu is debian based i guess
00:54
err i think
00:55
<ogra_>
ah, trhe artist formerly known as k12linux !
00:55
<Enslaver>
=)
00:55
its enslavux now
00:55
<ogra_>
heh
00:55
<Enslaver>
or wait, enslavix?
00:56
bestdistroeverux
01:04
ogra_: grab scientific linux =)
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01:55
<Enslaver>
is ltsp-config one day going away or becoming module based like build-client?
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02:22
<cpm__bis>
Hi everybody. LTSP installed on Debian squeeze. I get successfully the LDM prompt. But when I enter good login and good password, it failed.
02:23
I enter on tty1 to watch the ldm.log and I see : The authenticity of host ... can't be established
02:24
and just below, there is the ssh request : ssh -Y -t -M -S /var/run/ldm_socket_....
02:24
When I try this command in console, it failed.
02:25
Because my user can't write in /var/log/
02:25
ssh -Y -t -M -S /var/run/ldm_socket_XXXX_172.16.0.3 myuser@172.16.0.3 ...
02:26
It failed because user myuser has no permission to write in /var/run on server.
02:26
So, what is my problem? Any idea friends?
02:27
(oups, I wrote /var/log but no, it is /var/run)
02:29
If I remove the -S parameter, I succed to connect to the server from the thin client.
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03:23
<cpm__bis>
I done another try removing the -M parameter and it runs well. So what?
03:26
Ok, then it seems that it is the -M parameter which is the problem.
03:31
So, why the -M parameter give login failed?
03:44
Have a good night. Write me solutions, I come back later :-)
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04:24
<cpm__bis>
Hi vnc786, alexqwesa
04:25
I have a failed login with ssh -Y -t -M -S because -M give failed. Any idea?
04:32
<vnc786>
cpm__bis: -v verbose mode try this to debug ...
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04:52
<cpm__bis>
vnc786, good idea but no more information got.
04:52
muxserver_listen bind(): Permission denied
04:52
and juste before : Authentication succeeded (password)
04:53
<alkisg>
cpm__bis: ssh -Y -t -M -S /var/run/ldm_socket_XXXX_172.16.0.3 myuser@172.16.0.3 ... ==> that command is run by root locally on the client
04:53
Are you too running it as root?
04:53
<cpm__bis>
no
04:53
<alkisg>
" It failed because user myuser has no permission to write in /var/run on server." ==> not on the server. On the client.
04:54
cpm__bis: can you login as root locally on the client console?
04:54
<cpm__bis>
yes, you are right. It is not the -S parameter.
04:55
alkisg, I am connected with a local user. Shall i modify the .../ltsp/i386/etc/shadow file?
04:55
<alkisg>
!screen_08
04:55
<ltsp>
screen_08: To get a root shell on a Debian thin client, put SCREEN_07=ldm, SCREEN_08=shell and SCREEN_DEFAULT=07 to lts.conf.
04:55
<cpm__bis>
right
04:56
<alkisg>
(or you can issue `passwd` in the chroot, to unlock the root account)
04:57
<cpm__bis>
the SCREEN_08=shell seems to be an elegant way.
05:04
ok, you are really right. With root user on thin client, the ssh -Y -t -M -S running well.
05:04
Thank you for this tips.
05:04
<alkisg>
cpm__bis: now try this:
05:05
as root on the client:
05:05
ssh user@server
05:05
Replace user with an existing user
05:05
Leave server exactly as written
05:05
Don't substitute it with another name or ip
05:05
When you do that, do you get a prompt for trusting keys?
05:05
<cpm__bis>
no
05:05
<alkisg>
And are you able to login?
05:06
(to the server via ssh)
05:06
<cpm__bis>
ssh: Could not resolve hostname server: Name or service not know
05:06
<alkisg>
OK, there's the problem
05:06
Next try:
05:06
vi /etc/hosts
05:06
And put the IP of the server there
05:06
<cpm__bis>
but ssh myuser@172.16.0.3 the question is there and I can login well
05:06
<alkisg>
with the name "server"
05:06
E.g. 172.16.0.3 server
05:07
Save, exit, try again the `ssh user@server` command
05:07
<cpm__bis>
ho, sorry
05:07
<alkisg>
When that succeeds, then try from ldm
05:07
<cpm__bis>
I enter the ssh command on the server :****>
05:07
<alkisg>
Ah
05:07
<cpm__bis>
I try again on thin client
05:07
<alkisg>
OK
05:07
<cpm__bis>
ssh myuser@server ask me the question
05:07
<alkisg>
Accept the keys
05:08
Are you able to login?
05:08
<cpm__bis>
yes
05:08
<alkisg>
Now press alt+ctrl+f7 and try from ldm
05:11
<cpm__bis>
It is running WELLLLLLLL
05:12
raaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
05:12
<alkisg>
cpm__bis: it's not permanent
05:12
Your problem was ltsp-update-keys on the server
05:12
!ltsp-update-sshkeys
05:12
<ltsp>
ltsp-update-sshkeys: If you changed your server IP, you need to run ltsp-update-sshkeys, and if you're using NBD (Ubuntu) you also need ltsp-update-image afterwards
05:12
<alkisg>
(don't run ltsp-update-image, that's for ubuntu)
05:12
Run ltsp-update-sshkeys on the server, and reboot the client
05:12
<cpm__bis>
I did ltsp-update-sshkeys a lot (I am on Debian squeeze)
05:13
oki
05:13
<alkisg>
If it doesn't work after ltsp-update-sshkeys + client reboot, then maybe you need to restart your server sshd?
05:14
<cpm__bis>
oki
05:14
before you come, I done ltsp-build-client with --arch i386, is it possible that fixed my issue?
05:15
<alkisg>
You got a prompt with ssh myuser@server, so no it was not fixed
05:15
<cpm__bis>
right
05:21
I done ltsp-update-sshkeys and reboot the thin client, and now login ldm failed
05:21
but if on screen 8, I do ssh myuser@server one time, then ldm login runs well
05:21
Is this help?
05:21
<alkisg>
cpm__bis: try rebooting your server, or restarting sshd
05:25
<cpm__bis>
/etc/init.d/ssh restart ; done ; reboot my thinclient and then ldm login failed
05:26
<alkisg>
It appears that ltsp-update-sshkeys has some bug and doesn't work well in your environment
05:26
It'll need troubleshooting
05:26* alkisg needs to go though, bbl
05:27
<cpm__bis>
ok, thank you for your help
05:27
Now, I have a better idea about this issue.
05:27
Have a good day! :-)
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06:09
<bakytn>
hey! do you know why in FAT CLIENTS you can't rigth click on Desktops and see any icon?
06:10
<vnc786>
bakytn: u asking about kde or gnome ?
06:11
<bakytn>
vector, GNOME (sorry)
06:11
vnc786, GNOME (sorry)
06:11
I tried other xsessions though, the same sh*t
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06:12
<bakytn>
I tried to remove all .gnome2* .local etc folders to allow GNOME generate them again - the same
06:13
I thought may be anybode already encountered this before
06:13
<kumar>
How to configure dhcp falover in ltsp ubuntu
06:13
<vnc786>
on my fat clients i can create files on desktop ..(ubunut 12.04 --gnome)....
06:13
<bakytn>
kumar, I guess DHCP failover and LTSP are not dependant very much. So if you can tune DHCP failover you can use the same techniques to tune failover on TLSP
06:14
vnc786, ok. I think may I did somethign wrong and forgot it. Anyway, thanks
06:14
<kumar>
okay
06:14
<bakytn>
kumar, you just make DHCP failover and specify TFTP server, that's it
06:15
<kumar>
But I have configured one ltsp cluster with a load balancer and two app servers...but if incase the load balancer fails then i should have back up server for load balancer
06:15
<bakytn>
you could even have two DHCP's at the same time (but you gotta share leases, though)
06:16
<kumar>
so the reason, I am planning to have dhcp failove if dhcp fails then it switch over to another
06:16
<bakytn>
yes, pretty much standard reason for any failovers ;)
06:17
kumar, do you want active-active failover or active-passive?
06:17
<kumar>
client until unless boots until it recives a ip address from dhcp ..so, if i fails ..then it can get from other
06:17
active-active
06:18
<bakytn>
kumar, btw hwo did you set up your cluster? which documentation did you use?
06:19
kumar, what you can do is, to run 2 DHCP' servers at the same time. It's not a problem
06:19
kumar, you can tune them, however, to use different scopes if you want
06:19
kumar, (actually it's recommended to use scopes)
06:19
kumar, that's it. pretty much straightforward
06:20
http://serverfault.com/questions/64434/setting-up-a-secondary-dhcp-server-for-failover
06:20
<kumar>
okay I will paste the link for cluster wait
06:22
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSP-Cluster
06:24
<bakytn>
kumar, it's so old. Did it work for you? Which Ubuntu have you used?
06:25
<kumar>
ya it is working so fine
06:25
and I have also added active directory also to it
06:25
<bakytn>
kumar, have you used recent Ubuntu's?
06:26
<kumar>
hmmm ya 12.04 I user but unable to configure clusters
06:32
wht do u say my idea of dhcp failover will work or not i to dont know but want to have opnion of you all ..so that practically i will have to work on this
06:32
<bakytn>
kumar, idea is very simple. Read any doc about any DHCP failover. And just apply on LTSP
06:32
set
06:33
up
06:33
<kumar>
but it is not picking the dhcp failove file ....do u have any information about features that dhcp have
06:35
<bakytn>
kumar, what is "dhcp failover file"
06:36
<kumar>
baktyn it is not picking it if write anythihg other than scope and subnet
06:37
unable to find the problem
06:49
<bakytn>
are there any good articles on how to make fat clients faster?
06:49
<work_alkisg>
bakytn: they should be on par with local (standalone) installations
06:49
<bakytn>
my devices are powerful enough (dual core 1.6ghz, 1Gb ram) but still fat clients are not responsive enough when it comes to User Experience
06:49work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
06:50
<bakytn>
alkisg, what does it mean exactly?
06:50
<alkisg>
So, boot one of your clients with a local installation and another as ltsp fat client
06:50
And try to locate any differences
06:50
If you find that e.g. fat clients are slower, then it's an LTSP issue
06:50
If not, you can just ask "ubuntu/linux/etc is slow, can I make it faster"?
06:51
Which is a completely different question and unrelated to ltsp...
06:51
<bakytn>
alkisg, right. But with Fat Clients devices are still communicate with server, right?
06:51
<alkisg>
For the remote disk, yeah
06:51
<bakytn>
alkisg, how it works with swaps, tmp files? are they located at RAM?
06:52
<alkisg>
With 1 gb ram you have no swap
06:52
tmp files are in client ram, yes
06:53
<bakytn>
alkisg, so basically after Fat Client boots, minimum of client-server communication exist, right?
06:53
<alkisg>
Disk communication occurs
06:53
<bakytn>
alkisg, only the fact that home folder is on the server, am I correct?
06:53
<alkisg>
No
06:53
When you want to load openoffice, you need about 120 MB of data
06:54
I.e. the program and its libraries
06:54
<bakytn>
alkisg, and it loads over the network?
06:54
<alkisg>
That is read from the server
06:54
Yes
06:54
<bakytn>
alkisg, ok
06:54
<alkisg>
A fat client is similar to a client booted from a usb disk
06:54
Except that instead of usb, it's a network disk
06:54
And the server caches the reads, so it's a bit like a slow SSD disk
06:55
Very low seek times but a bit low bandwidth as well
06:55
All in all, fat clients performance should be quite similar to local installations
06:56
So if you don't have configuration/network etc problems, and you think it's slow, it's just linux that is slow on your clients (or your clients not good enough for it)
06:56
<bakytn>
alkisg, my problem strange... it all work fine, apps, browsing, video playbacks etc. The problem is only about UX. I thought it's a xsession related but I tried everyting GNOME, KDE, LXDE, Cinnamon. etc
06:56
alkisg, but what I must do right now, is to install some desktop directly on the device to compare
06:57
<alkisg>
Right. Or on an external usb disk.
06:59
<bakytn>
alkisg, what am I thinking about right now is to use a thin client setup but install all other apps as a local apps. This might work too I guess
07:04
alkisg, sorry one more question. Can I just copy NBD images and chroot (i.e: i386 and images) folders to another completely independent server or they must be on an LTSP server?
07:08
<vnc786>
i tried xfce on amd dual core4gb http://picpaste.com/sc-WyBV9J2B.png
07:10
<bakytn>
vnc786, how is it? working good?
07:10
<alkisg>
bakytn: local apps vs fat clients is the same thing
07:10
Don't expect them to go faster
07:11
You can transfer the nbd image and tftp dir to another server, yeah
07:11
<bakytn>
alkisg, apps working great, UX is not as fat clients, so having UX running on Server (xsession etc.).. I will test anyway :D thaks
07:12
<alkisg>
bakytn: what is UX?
07:12
<bakytn>
alkisg, user experience
07:12
alkisg, in my situatino is user desktop experience
07:12
<alkisg>
...it doesn't make sense though :)
07:12
UX == desktop, firefox, flash, whatever
07:12
But you say apps run fine
07:13
<bakytn>
alkisg, if I transfer those dirs to another Linux, what I need is just a tftp server and no ltsp related software, correct?
07:13
<alkisg>
Maybe you're only talking about the Desktop Environment, DE ?
07:13
<bakytn>
alkisg, yes in my sitaution UX is only about Desktop :D
07:13
<alkisg>
tftp and nbd server
07:13
<bakytn>
alkisg, ok!
07:13
<alkisg>
If e.g. firefox is going fast and the desktop is slow, troubleshoot or change the desktop
07:13* alkisg prefers gnome-fallback session
07:14
<vnc786>
alkisg: can u see the image which i uploaded ...!! u guided me to use different DE..and i did ...
07:14
<bakytn>
alkisg, yeah need to test test and test. But I am happy that browsing is pretty much smooth (local app)
07:15
<alkisg>
vnc786: I've never used xfce but it seems like something is missing
07:15
Try logging in on the server directly
07:15
Or is this fat clients?
07:16
Check ~/.xsession-errors too
07:16
<vnc786>
i did in chroot apt-get install xfce and also xubuntu-desktop......
07:16
<alkisg>
There might be missing dependencies
07:17
Compare your chroot packages with e.g. a xubuntu live cd packages
07:17
bbiab
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07:19
<vnc786>
bakytn: does u r fat clients feels little slow when doing some multitasking(LO, thunderbird,firefox, etc) ..is that what u r saying ..?
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07:21
<bakytn>
vnc786, firefox, LO working fine
07:22
<vnc786>
i am not specific to that only but asking overall ?
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07:37
<bakytn>
guys, how many clients do you have booting at the same time? how much it takes?
07:39
<alkisg>
bakytn: network speed?
07:39
gigabit server, 100 mbps clients?
07:39
It shouldn't need more than 30 seconds for a fat client, from pxelinux to the ldm screen
07:43
<bakytn>
alkisg, yes
07:44
alkisg, they are booting pretty fast! I have measured and overall traffic was about 250 megabytes
07:44
alkisg, for one device
07:45
alkisg, so in my rough calculations about 20 simult clietns can boot at the same time with 100mbps client and 1Gb server
07:46
in terms of traffic I guess thin client setup would be more efficient?
07:48
<alkisg>
No
07:48
Up to LDM it should be the same
07:48
About 50 MB of traffic
07:48
For each client
07:49
<bakytn>
alkisg, but after logging in
07:49
<alkisg>
After login thin clients generally require more bandwidth
07:49
<bakytn>
alkisg, oh
07:50
<alkisg>
E.g. a full screen youtube flash video on an HD monitor needs 2.5 Gbps for a thin client, or 2.5 Mbps for a fat
07:50
thins => 1000 times more there
07:50
While, loading libreoffice is about the same until it loads
07:53
<bakytn>
alkisg, with Youtube video tehre would be double traffic right? from Youtube to server and from server to client. but are you sure about 2.5gbps?
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07:54
<alkisg>
1920*1080*32bpp*30fpp=1 990 656 000
07:54
Sorry, it's 2 Gbps
07:55
Double traffic => on thins it would be 2 Gpbs + 2 Mbps, not double traffice
07:55
On fats, it depends if you're doing NAT or not
07:56
<bakytn>
correct
07:58
<Hyperbyte>
Right, but there's this xvideo plugin for Firefox
07:59
Which solves all your problems.
07:59
:)
07:59
Or YouTube problems, at least.
07:59
<alkisg>
Which works or breaks every 2 weeks
07:59
And needs updates very often etc etc
07:59
<Hyperbyte>
Really?
08:00
I haven't had problems with it, although I have since I tried it for a few months, removed it.
08:00
Or more precise, it disappeared when I nuked my Firefox profile and haven't brought it back. ;-)
08:02
<alkisg>
It also doesn't play all videos
08:02
<bakytn>
2gpbs = 244 kbytes per second
08:02
<alkisg>
?
08:02
MB you mean?
08:03
2 gbps means that you would need 2 NICs on the server and on the client just to serve a single client
08:03
In other words, impossible with the current hardware limitations
08:04
<bakytn>
ah..damn sorry
08:04
right
08:04
I used 2 mlns not billions
08:04
<alkisg>
In networking the measurements are usually done in bits
08:04
gigabit network, gigabit card etc
08:04
<bakytn>
alkisg, I know I just wanted to convert ;)
08:04
:-P
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10:21
<andygraybeal>
morrrning
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10:39
<vnc786>
how this works ? fat clients get booted(amd64.img) at (let say) 10.00 am and if add/remove some application at 11.00am and rebuild image then fat clients which get booted after 11.00 am will get new image but still the fat clients which got image at 10.00 am are working fine....
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13:32
<||cw>
vnc786: ndb clients? the image file's inodes on the filesystem don't actually get deleted/unlinked until it's no longer in use. the active clients keep the inodes in use
13:32
nbd^
13:32
if you check free disk space, this will be reflected.
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13:43
<sbalneav>
Morning all
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13:50
<jammcq>
good morning friends
13:50
<sbalneav>
jammcq: Morning!
13:50
<jammcq>
Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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13:53
<sbalneav>
alkisg: ping, you about?
14:00
<cpm__bis>
Hi everybody. LTSP installed on Debian squeeze. There is only one issue. LDM login failed. On the local thin client SCREEN_08=shell, if I do ssh myuser@server, then the LDM login succeed. Any idea? Heeeeelp! :o)
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14:07
<vnc786>
cpm__bis: i dont know about thin client but i faced same issue on fat clients i was able to ssh username@server but thru GUI i was not able the solution was that /tmp directory in chroot should have drwxrwxrwt perm..u might facing some issue related to permission ..
14:08
<sbalneav>
cpm__bis: You might need to do the ltsp-update-sshkeys
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14:20
<cpm__bis>
vnc786, thx, permission on the local /tmp are right.
14:20
sbalneav, already done, without result.
14:21
The issue is when the thin client done ssh ... echo LTSPROCKS, it failed there.
14:21
<sbalneav>
Do you locally customize .profile, .bashrc, etc?
14:22
<cpm__bis>
If I do it manually and answer 'yes' to "Are you sure you want to continue connecting(yes/no)?", then it's running well.
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14:22
<cpm__bis>
sbalneav, none.
14:22
<sbalneav>
If it's asking if you want to continue connecting to an ssh, is it first complaining about unknown host?
14:23
<cpm__bis>
yes
14:23
<sbalneav>
Because if it is, it's your ssh keys.
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14:24
<sbalneav>
ok, so you need to debug why ltsp-update-sshkeys isn't working for you/
14:25
Are you running an nbd chroot, or an nfs chroot?
14:25
<cpm__bis>
nfs chroot
14:25
localy, I see /etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts
14:26
<sbalneav>
so you run ltsp-update-sshkeys, and reboot the thin client, and it still doesn't know about the server?
14:26
<cpm__bis>
it contains entry for "server"
14:27
but in ldm.log, the ssh try to reach the ip 172.16.0.3, not "server" (even if the ip of "server" is 172.16.0.3)
14:27
sbalneav, it is exactly that.
14:29
<sbalneav>
what does your lts.conf file look like?
14:30
Can you pastebin it?
14:30
!paste
14:30
<ltsp>
paste: try !pastebot
14:30
<sbalneav>
!pastebot
14:30
<ltsp>
pastebot: try !pastebin
14:30
<sbalneav>
!pastebin
14:30
<ltsp>
pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
14:34
<cpm__bis>
http://pastebin.com/bCDvSQ0v
14:35
This is the default one. I added the SCREEN entries to debug
14:36
14:37
in the ldm.log, I see ssh ... test@172.16.0.3
14:37
but this IP is not in the ssh_known_hosts
14:37
so when I do ssh test@172.16.0.3, it asks me confirm.
14:38
If I do ssh test@server, it not asks me to confirm.
14:38
<sbalneav>
So, I'd add 172.16.0.3 into the ssh_known_hosts.
14:39
<cpm__bis>
Hahahahahaah, so simple!
14:39
Yes, it is a simple and good solution.
14:39
I don't know I was focus on the normal way...
14:39
tsss
14:40
So, just for the fun. Did you know how config correctly to generate ssh ... test@server in replacement of ssh ...test@172.16.0.3... ?
14:44
<alkisg>
sbalneav: hello!
14:46
cpm__bis: in recent LTSP versions, it tries to connect to @server. I don't know what version squeeze has. Try LDM_SERVER=server.
14:49
<cpm__bis>
alkisg, hoooo, I check immediatly
14:49
<sbalneav>
alkisg: ok, so I've done some thinking/playing the last day or so.
14:51
I think sshfs will work, but we're going to need something to do the automounting. I'm not sure udisks will work, since we need 2 bits of custom behaviour:
14:51
<cpm__bis>
alkisg, Enjoy! It was that!!! Marvelous, my LTSP install is running well.
14:51
Thank you very much alkisg and sbalneav and vnc786.
14:51
<sbalneav>
1) We need an automounter that understands some LTSP variables, and calls a shell script when it mounts. That's so when the mount happens, we can inform the server.
14:52
<cpm__bis>
Now I can move the server to the classroom. Teachers and students will be glad. :-)
14:52
<sbalneav>
2) We need an automounter that will mount with /media/userid/DEVICE, as opposed to /media/DEVICE, to maintain consistency between tc and fc.
14:53
So, I will do some work opposite that.
14:53
<alkisg>
cpm__bis: note though that you shouldn't have to do that manually, ltsp-update-sshkeys should have made the IP connection work without you defining LDM_SERVER
14:53
sbalneav: about (1), I'm guessing that udisks and other tools will have a place where we can put hook scripts...
14:54
<sbalneav>
They don't. I checked.
14:54
<cpm__bis>
alkisg, hooo, I will chek the script.
14:54
<alkisg>
Meh. So much for dbus and all the exciting technologies :D
14:55
sbalneav: so, we're sticking with our own udev rules?
14:56
<sbalneav>
No.
14:57
We'll have our own automounter that uses udev/dbus.
14:58
https://github.com/LemonBoy/ldm
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14:58
<sbalneav>
This can probably be forked/adapted.
15:00
If we modify/adapt that lightweight device mounter, and couple it with sshfs, we should be able to do what we want. It already supports scripted callouts.
15:00
<markit>
alkisg , Phantomas : hi, currently I use greek ppa for ltsp, but regarding epoptes, do you suggest me to use the specific epoptes ppa to have "the latest the greatest" or is too "experimetnal"? I would love to follow epoptes improvements more closely and have new features like miniature size modificable, multithread broadcast etc..
15:01
<alkisg>
markit: we upload new stable epoptes versions to that ppa
15:01
So you don't need to add the other ppa as well
15:02
(as long as you're using lts releases...)
15:02
<markit>
alkisg: I'm on 12.04
15:02
<alkisg>
OK
15:02
<markit>
so is "stable enough", ok, I'll add that ppa
15:03
alkisg: btw, I've seen discussion here about LightLDM, I've no clue of what I'm saying, just pointing you to SDDM just in case is of any interest for you: http://qt-apps.org/content/show.php/SDDM%3A+Simple+QML+Based+Display+Manager?content=156539
15:03
<alkisg>
markit: you don't need both greek + epoptes ppa. Just greek ppa is enough.
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15:04
<markit>
alkisg: ah, sorry, "as long as..." ok, I thought the contrary (lts more conservative, other more updated)
15:04
<alkisg>
QML is the new trend, let's see how that works out
15:05* alkisg is also curious about how MIR will affect LTSP
15:05
<markit>
alkisg: btw, do you have any experience of pfsense or zeroshell? what would you suggest? I need (a friend of mine needs) dansguardian, access control, etc. and I would love put that stuff out of ltsp server, with a firewall between ltsp and the router
15:05
<alkisg>
But I prefer Qt to GTK, it seems more mature
15:05
No experience
15:06
<sbalneav>
None of the new "X Replacements" (Mir or Wayland) support protocol-over-ip, to my knowledge, so certainly I won't be adopting them, as they don't allow for true thin-client like what I run around here.
15:07
<markit>
ok, last request for epoptes, but probably have already be filed, is have a visual clue on the miniature to know which one have the teacher screen broadcast active, i.e. if you do in "window mode" and a child closes that window by mistake, would love to be able to know what to activate again
15:07
<alkisg>
sbalneav: I see org.freedesktop.UDisks on dbus, providing signals like "DeviceAdded()"
15:07
sbalneav: so a dbus listener would be all that's needed?
15:08
<markit>
I've seen that with big screens the window mode broadcast is useful... in that window, half the 24" screen, the student sees what the teacher is doing, in the other half he tries to mimic
15:08
<sbalneav>
Correct, that's what that url I pointed to does.
15:08
The code's not that big, plus it's doing things we may not need.
15:09
<alkisg>
sbalneav: is udisks cross-distro enough? Or rhel-based distros are using something systemd-based there?
15:10
<sbalneav>
systemd will be an issue we'll have to deal with, but one assumes that we can come up with at "systemd" listener.
15:10
I don't know, since none of the systems I'm interested in currently need systemd. I trust that interested parties will provide solutions.
15:12
<muppis>
This is not really LTSP related, but nfs-booting anyway. In middle of booting, nic were it was booting is switched to totally different and can't find nfs root from there and, of course, causes kernel panic. :/
15:13
<markit>
Phantomas: https://bugs.launchpad.net/epoptes/+bug/1157241 (better later than never ;P)
15:17
<alkisg>
muppis: did you list the nic in /etc/network/interfaces as "manual"ly configured?
15:18
<muppis>
alkisg, sure. Other host boots fine and never had this problem.
15:18
host/client/machine
15:19
<alkisg>
And "totally different" means? Different ip?
15:19
<muppis>
Different nic. There is no cable plugged in nic which it switches.
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15:20
<alkisg>
sbalneav: can you take a look at this ubuntu package? udisks-glue - simple automount daemon with support for user-defined actions
15:21
muppis: try IPAPPEND 2 in the kernel command line
15:21
*pxelinux.cfg, I meant
15:21
<sbalneav>
alkisg: Even better; looks like there's one available. Yeah, if we can write stuff for that, perfect. I'll look.
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15:25
<muppis>
alkisg, does that work in non-ltsp systems?
15:25
<alkisg>
yes, it's pxelinux, one of the tools that ltsp uses but not ltsp-specific
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15:25
<muppis>
Ok.
15:27
Machine is HP DL360p gen8. Takes about 2 min per POST. :(
15:32
No effect. It's still finds wrong nic as that where it was booting on.
15:33
<alkisg>
muppis: that's on the initramfs, right? Do you get a busybox shell after that?
15:34
If so, cat /proc/cmdline and verify that the MAC address of the boot nic is listed there
15:34
<muppis>
Yes, it's on initramfs. I don't get a shell after that. I get kernel panic.
15:34
<alkisg>
muppis: try break=mount in pxelinux.cfg/default
15:34
You should get a shell before the mounting
15:35
<muppis>
I've set --verbose debug=100 so I see the MAC and it's different.
15:35
<alkisg>
Btw, ipappend 2 gets on a separate line, right?
15:35
Pastebin your pxelinux.cfg/default if unsure
15:36
<muppis>
http://pastebin.com/g5S7VkX7
15:39
Hmm...
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15:42
<muppis>
http://pastebin.com/9hapMSJK -- It boots from eth1, where in this paste is presented as eth2. eth1 in paste is the wrong one.
15:45
<alkisg>
muppis: remove the =
15:45
<sbalneav>
I'm not exactly sure what consolekit requires in order to mark a session as "Active".
15:45
<alkisg>
It's "ipappend 2", not "ipappend=2"
15:46
<muppis>
yes.
15:46
http://pastebin.com/hj5mPHte -- This happens.
15:48
<alkisg>
muppis: so, do you see BOOTIF in the `cat /proc/cmdline` output?
15:49
Finally, you can also try with "ipappend 3" instead of 2
15:52
<muppis>
With ipappend 2 it works, but still nics are in wrong order.
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15:53
<alkisg>
The nic names are determined by udev rules
15:55
<muppis>
It interlaces them. Two cards with 4 nics per each. They should be ordered by mac like eth0-3 from first card and eth4-7 from second, but now they are interlaced like eth0 from first and eth1 from second and so on.
15:55
<alkisg>
sbalneav: I think if we use "su - user", then ck-list-sessions will list the session as active, as long as it's on the fgconsole
15:56
sbalneav: previously we didn't use `su`, so I had to resort to setting the CKCON* environment variables in X95-run-X-session
15:58
Btw, I think consolekit will go away in favor of logind...
15:58
So we might want to concentrate on that one
15:59
<sbalneav>
What will we do for wheezy? It's what I'll be running here, hopefully, in a few months?
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16:01
<muppis>
Annoys a little when he leaves without a warning. ;)
16:01
Still can't complain about it.
16:01
<cpm__bis>
I put my /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts there: http://pastebin.com/Hfn5cUHb This file was generated by ltsp-update-sshkeys. Do you confirm that "server" have to be replace by * when I run ltsp-update-sshkeys ?
16:24
I am using the package ltsp-server 5.4.2-2~bpo60+1 from Debian
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18:03
<alkisg>
15:59<sbalneav> What will we do for wheezy? It's what I'll be running here, hopefully, in a few months?
18:03
==> no idea, only vagrantc can answer that one :)
18:04
<ogra_>
backports galore
18:04
<alkisg>
sbalneav: so you no longer use ubuntu in any of your installations/home pcs?
18:05
<ogra_>
i just read that backports in debian are officially supported now
18:06
<alkisg>
ogra_: did I understand correctly that Unity is now to be written in QML? So, for e.g. 13.10 that MIR won't be there yet, we'll be able to run Unity on thin clients (2d accelleration only) again?
18:06
<ogra_>
no
18:06
ubuntu touch is written in OML
18:06
*QML
18:07
ubuntu desktp wont change (yet ?!?)
18:07
<vagrantc>
i'll make efforts to support backports
18:07
for wheezy
18:07
i usually do.
18:07
<alkisg>
ogra_: ah, so MIR isn't a target for 14.04 for the desktop too?
18:07
<ogra_>
alkisg, and you will always be able to use X it wont go away ... you will even be able to use X on top of Mir without issues
18:08
Mir just replaces the drivers and the compositor
18:08
<alkisg>
X on top of MIR ==> too bloated for thin clients with 64 or 128 ram, we'll have to go fat on those
18:08
<ogra_>
it wont be different to what you have today
18:08
most likely even faster and smaller
18:08
<alkisg>
I just hope some good remote desktop solution will emerge for the composition era of linux...
18:09
<ogra_>
X on top of Mir means the X protocol ... not the whole of X
18:09
you wont have to carry all the low level bloat
18:09
<sbalneav>
alkisg: We have ubuntu here still, but I'm going to be phasing it out in favour of Debian.
18:09
<alkisg>
ogra_: ah, so something like Xephyr now? Just a thin layer?
18:09
<ogra_>
(and instead get the Mir C++ low level bloat i guess ;) )
18:10
yeah
18:10
the good stuff will be that you wont have to care for drivers at all anymore
18:10
no matter how good or bad wayland and mir are ... thats a massive advantage
18:11
<alkisg>
Sure, reusing android drivers is a good thing... but I thought wayland also had plans for that
18:11
<ogra_>
both talk directly to the kernel display drivers (and to lib GLES/EGL)
18:11
wayland dropped all android support they previously had
18:12
<alkisg>
ogra_: also, is python now getting a bit deprecated for the ubuntu desktop in favor of javascript?
18:12
<ogra_>
dunno i guess we'll still have tons of python ... that wont go away
18:12
<alkisg>
But for new desktop apps, javascript/qml is suggested, right?
18:13
And c++/qml for the more advanced ones...
18:13
<ogra_>
not atm, no
18:13
for ubuntu touch it is
18:13
they are completely distict things atm
18:13
*distinct
18:13
<alkisg>
Ah, so the ubuntu sdk isn't for all devices, it's just for ubuntu touch...
18:13
<ogra_>
right
18:13
<alkisg>
Gotcha
18:13
<ogra_>
eventually i suspect unity will become QML ...
18:14
but that wont stop you from running and developing Gtk apps for it
18:14* alkisg prefers Qt as long as it's a "first class citizen"...
18:14
<ogra_>
like you dont need to be able to write compiz to have a desktop app today
18:15
its the layer that nobody but the unity team touches anyway that gets changed
18:15
everything around it will go on to work as before
18:17
there was so much FUD spread around Mir ...
18:17* ogra_ had quite some sad days the last weeks
18:17
<alkisg>
Well, canonical didn't handle it good though
18:18
Telling people to focus on one thing, then secretly focusing on another for months
18:18
It's the worse thing about ubuntu; it's a moving target, changing course every few months
18:20
I really like the idea of using qt for the desktop and a layer that can reuse the android drivers for the graphics
18:20
I hope this one sticks and doesn't get dropped after a couple of years...
18:21
<ogra_>
agreed, we didnt handle it well, but we also had issues in the past where we started something that had no code yet and were bvlamed for that
18:22
so the idea was to first have some code to present before revealing it to exactly not run into that trap again
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18:22
<alkisg>
I imagine there are political reasons for not using wayland for that too
18:22
<ogra_>
which turned out to be a lot worse and even more full of lies and FUD
18:22
<alkisg>
Not technical reasons
18:22
But anyways, I just hope it turns out for the best
18:22
<ogra_>
well indeed
18:22
canonical now has its own systemd
18:23* ogra_ is really curious how debian will havndle gnome installs in a year from now btw :)
18:24
<alkisg>
Why? Wrt systemd integration?
18:24
<ogra_>
it will mean requiring systemd and wayland on the system level
18:24
gnome decided they will drop X support in favour of wayland with their next iteration ... and redhat/fedora is forcign userland gnome into systemd
18:24
<vagrantc>
it's a newish kind of vendor lock-in.
18:24
<ogra_>
yep
18:25
<vagrantc>
after decades of compatibility, it seems like a lot of players have just decided to give up.
18:25
<ogra_>
thats one reason for the move to Mir (teh political one you mentioned above)
18:25
<vagrantc>
and implement what *they* believe to be the next incompatible way forward...
18:26
<ogra_>
there are some massive design differences too between wayland and mir though ...
18:26
<alkisg>
Wayland isn't controlled by redhat though, is it? I thought even intel contributes to it...
18:26
<ogra_>
the majority of devs is fedora ...
18:26
like systemd (which today is also consolekit policykit and udev btw)
18:26
<alkisg>
Ah, so they'd try to enforce their stuff like they do for systemd, got it
18:27
<ogra_>
systemd will bite everyone long term
18:27
you wont have a standalone udev anymore
18:28
<cpm__bis>
I put my /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts there: http://pastebin.com/Hfn5cUHb This file was generated by ltsp-update-sshkeys. Do you confirm that "server" have to be replace by * when I run ltsp-update-sshkeys ?
18:28
<alkisg>
cpm__bis: in newer ltsp versions, the client tries to connect to "server", not to "ip"
18:28
Maybe you don't have a recent enough ldm version?
18:28
And you only have a very recent ltsp backport?
18:29
cpm__bis: run `ltsp-info` and put the result to pastebin
18:29
<cpm__bis>
alkisg, surely, Debian squeeze with only backports...
18:29
<alkisg>
vagrantc knows about the squeeze backports versions, /me is very fond of debian but doesn't have any deployments with it yet...
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18:30
<alkisg>
cpm__bis: but anyways if LDM_SERVER=server in lts.conf makes it work for you, I don't think you need to bother with that anymore...
18:30
<cpm__bis>
http://pastebin.com/kJkG8H08
18:31
<vagrantc>
cpm__bis: do you have backports both on server and in the chroot?
18:31
cpm__bis: ltsp-info
18:31
!pastebin | echo cpm__bis
18:31
<ltsp>
cpm__bis pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
18:31
<alkisg>
cpm__bis: I think your ldm is too old, you should have 2:2.2.11-2~bpo60+1
18:31
And you have ldm 2:2.1.2-2
18:31
<cpm__bis>
alkisg, allright, I wanted to know the normal procedure in anticipation a future installation.
18:32
<alkisg>
(08:31:25 μμ) vagrantc: cpm__bis: do you have backports both on server and in the chroot? ==> I think that nailed it
18:32
You probably need to enable backports in your chroot too
18:33
<cpm__bis>
alkisg, hooooo, yes, the chroot!
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18:41
<cpm__bis>
vagrantc, I note the good link.
18:42
<vagrantc>
you need to specify --backports-mirror when building the chroot.
18:42
maybe some other things ... haven't tested it in a few months
18:43* vagrantc should update the backports, too
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19:00
<cpm__bis>
alkisg, you were so right. backport parameter in ltsp-build-client solve my issue. Wonderful, now I am using a good version of ldm and I have no more error in ldm login.
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19:01* vagrantc really pondered making the backported package install backports by default ... but it was too complicated to code...
19:01
<vagrantc>
or at least, i didn't bother to put much time into it
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19:03
<cpm__bis>
My main page to help me in install was http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto
19:04
I would suggest to update it (Lenny -> Squeeze) and add the backports information. But I know it is a Debian wiki page.
19:04
(http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto is linked by http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation)
19:04
<vagrantc>
i haven't given the wiki pages the attention they need...
19:04
although there's nothing really notably different in the default process between lenny and squeeze and wheezy
19:05
only the backports process is a little different.
19:05
<cpm__bis>
Yes, I am agree. I was not lost reading it.
19:06
So, one line about backports should be very useful for next visitor. And it is perhaps a short task.
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19:06
<vagrantc>
cpm__bis: maybe you would like to take it on :)
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19:08
<cpm__bis>
vagrantc, it should be an honor. But I have no permission and not enought good english.
19:09
<vagrantc>
cpm__bis: you should be able to create an account and start editing, your english sounds fine to me :)
19:10
<cpm__bis>
Hooo, wiki accounts are "opened". So, ok, I will do it. And please, accept to check my changes :)
19:12
<vagrantc>
cpm__bis: gladly
19:12
cpm__bis: thanks for contributing :)
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21:14
<cpm__>
vagrantc, done : http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto and http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP
21:15
It is very small improvement. I did the best that I can. Happy to contributing.
21:16
RMS said: "Sharing is good", but "Contribution is good" too! ;o)
21:17
<vagrantc>
cpm__: contributing is a form of sharing :)
21:17
<cpm__>
:o)
21:17
Thank you again for your help and congratulations for your work. It is useful and wonderful!
21:20
<vagrantc>
glad you like it!
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22:57
<Enslaver>
http://www.etherboot.org/wiki/appnotes/cow
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