IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 16 May 2012   (all times are UTC)

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04:07
<alkisg>
Good morning
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05:10* alkisg tries to sync debian/control a bit... I think we should try to have the same package descriptions in order to minimize translation efforts (and our translation sync overhead)
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06:05
<mealstrom>
what ltsp would look like in about 2 years? what plans for future?
06:13
<alkisg>
Replace LDM with any DM and use libpam_sshauth for authentication, allow the server disk to be cleaned up and exported without the need for a chroot, allow ltsp-client to be installed in local installations to have easy central authentication + shared /home on low bandwidth cases... but only the future will tell for sure
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06:18
<mealstrom>
will the force be with you. central authentication , sounds sweet.
06:19
<alkisg>
...we already have that in ltsp, clients don't need separate authentication. We'll just try to make it available for standalone installations too
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06:20
<mealstrom>
im want to ask about xorg.conf for clients. i'm using /etc/X11/xorg_clientname.conf for clients(some has 2 monitors, some one), is it possible to mount dir via nfs with configs and read configs from there. If im using /etc/X11 server dir i have to make image-update after each config update
06:21
it is question about who is faster -- read of xorg.conf or disk mount ?
06:25
<alkisg>
You don't need a xorg.conf to configure 2 monitors
06:25
You can do that with XRANDR_* lts.conf directives
06:25
!lts.conf
06:25
<ltsp`>
alkisg: lts.conf: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
06:29
<mealstrom>
oops.
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06:58
<cyberorg>
alkisg, checkout kiwi, it implements /srv/tftpboot/KIWI/config.mac:add:re:ss that file does a lot of useful things, for example: http://cyberorg.co.in/config
07:00
http://opensuse.github.com/kiwi/ and kiwi doc here http://isny.homelinux.com/data/kiwi.html
07:00
<alkisg>
cyberorg: that's nice, but I don't like distro-specific solutions :(
07:00
But it would be nice to check its implementation and if it does similar things, we could at least use the same syntax
07:01
Thank you for the links, maybe we can even reuse some of the code
07:02
<cyberorg>
alkisg, it is distro independent, works on suse and rh+clones, supports multiple package managers so should be easy to get it working on deb based distros
07:02
<alkisg>
cyberorg: can we only install the tftp server part, or is it unseperatable part of a bigger framework?
07:03
I wouldn't want to spend months to port kiwi to debian and have to maintain it for years to come...
07:04
<cyberorg>
it should be easier to do than to re-invent the wheel :)
07:04
<alkisg>
The tftp server part is already available as a python module
07:04
So we only need to plug in the ltsp-specific bits there
07:05
I imagine the larger part of the implementation will be the /etc/ltsp/lts.conf.d/* handling
07:05
That needs to go upstream in LTSP, it's not tftp or kiwi specific...
07:06
Do you have code in opensuse to generate custom lts.conf per client, similar to ltsp-cluster?
07:08
<cyberorg>
we have script that creates /srv/tftpboot/KIWI/config.mac:add:re:ss and /srv/tftpboot/KIWI/root.mac:add:ress/with custom files for that mac
07:09
<alkisg>
I'd rather have the configuration in /etc/ltsp, with a GUI editor for each client or for groups of client
07:09
s
07:09
The tftp dir would be empty; the tftp server would run our script and send their output as the files
07:09
<cyberorg>
we do almost everything you proposed except that it is done by kiwi, no modifications to ltsp required
07:09
<alkisg>
E.g. there wouldn't be need for ltsp-update-kernels anymore; we could tell our tftp server to get them directly from the chroot
07:10
<vmlintu>
We are working now on LDAP based lts.conf creation on top of Puavo.. We are already running one version of it, but we are making it more generic.
07:11
<alkisg>
The user would set in his lts.conf:
07:11
[mac:address]
07:11
CMDLINE=<client specific kernel parameters>
07:11
And without anything in tftp, the client would get the proper configuration
07:11
So it's not only lts.conf, it's our whole configuration there, lts.conf, kernel parameters, pxelinux.cfg, ldminfod...
07:12
And all that should go upstream in ltsp as the new configuration system
07:13
Also, like ltsltscfg-cluster, the client would get different settings on different parts of the boot process, boot, login, logout, shutdown etc
07:13
All those are ltsp-specific bits, I don't think kiwi can cover such things
07:13
<cyberorg>
alkisg, read up http://isny.homelinux.com/data/kiwi.html#chap.pxe
07:15
<alkisg>
cyberorg: you're using atftpd
07:15
So nothing dynamic there
07:15
Static files. Generated, sure, but static.
07:16
<cyberorg>
files can be served using http, https or ftp also
07:17
of course, ltsp clients do not require dynamic files/setup
07:17
<alkisg>
They do :)
07:17
That's the whole reason getltscfg-cluster was developed
07:18
E.g. I want to dynamically decide lts.conf options based on the client hardware, cpu, ram etc
07:19
Or I want to send LDM_PASSWORD only to the specific client, not everyone who asks for lts.conf
07:19
Also, the user needs to edit pxelinux.cfg/default for the command line, and lts.conf for other client options, it would be better for him to have the client settings in one place
07:20
<cyberorg>
can be done by putting custom static lts.conf per client?
07:20
<alkisg>
Yes, but that's not something maintainable, and it's still 2 separate places (3 now) to edit the configuration
07:21
<cyberorg>
we dont use cmdline, that details go in kiwi's config.mac
07:21
<alkisg>
And they get written to tftp by some script
07:21
That's no different to our update-kernels now
07:22
Suppose class A1 leaves and class A2 comes in. The teacher would need to edit a lot of lts.conf files to change LDM_USERNAME/password and ...restart the clients?
07:22
With the new system he would be able to do it from a GUI massively without rebooting or starting services
07:22
<cyberorg>
any way check out kiwi in detail and see if you can use something from there
07:23
<alkisg>
Thanks, but the main idea is our own tftp server, kiwi uses atftpd so I'm not sure we can reuse anything after all. Thanks a lot for your feedback though, much appreciated :)
07:24
<cyberorg>
files can be served using http, https or ftp also so no just tftp
07:24
<alkisg>
PXE needs tftp, it's part of the boot protocol
07:25
So in order to generate the command line dynamically we have to use tftp
07:25
<knipwim>
but the lts.conf could also be served from http or https
07:25
<alkisg>
knipwim: sure, but if we already have a daemon, why not reuse it for all our other configuration needs?
07:26
And it would be compatible with older clients that just expect an lts.conf too
07:26
(with tftp)
07:27
A tftp python module is already available, it's not like we need to write an actual tftp server...
07:28
We wouldn't need /var/lib/tftpboot at all then, we could get everything from the respective chroots
07:28
It would make ltsp-update-kernels unnecessary, simplify the code a lot etc
07:32
So while kiwi and getltscfg-cluster are very nice, I think the tftp protocol is much more powerful for our needs
07:34
In fact the tftp server part will be trivial; "get the client filename request; run the ltsp hook script and echo its output as the file the client requested"
07:34
All the rest should be upstream ltsp code
07:35
Actually I should look if some tftpd maintainer is interested in providing such an option, "--file-script= Run a script and copy its output as the file to send to the client"
07:36
<knipwim>
that's nice
07:36
i don't think atftp is maintained anymore
07:37
<alkisg>
If the python tftp module works good enough, and we can implement that (along maybe with the tiny proxydhcp part) in under 100 lines, maybe it'd be even better to ship our own tftp + optional proxydhcp server
07:37
Then we could control the boot filename from lts.conf too
07:38
I think someone has implemented proxydhcp in java in very few lines
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13:54
<highvoltage>
anyone know where the largest ltsp deployments are?
13:55
I need to get some information on that. I know greece is really big, is there anything else?
13:56
<vmlintu>
Was it so that spain doesn't use ltsp in their big deployment?
13:58
<highvoltage>
I know in andalusia (sp?) they use fat clients that they image
13:59
not sure what they do in the rest of spain currently.
13:59
<vmlintu>
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JIRk9QG_QZR-kKpKw7rWUi8soIae2tr9ltXYUDkvM94/edit?pli=1
14:00
we have close to 6k clients currently
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16:52
<vlt>
Hello. Can I use an option like debootstrap's --include with ltsp-build-client to add packages I want to be installed into the client image?
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17:07
<bieb>
is there a way to map any USB device that is plugged into the thin client? I am using Ubuntu 10.04 (moving to 12.04 next week with new server) and Diskless workstations. Right now when usb is plugged in.. it mounts in /media/%username%
17:09
<vlt>
bieb: What behaviour do you expect?
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17:10
<bieb>
vlt: I would like to be able to script it to map to /Home/%User% this way it is easier for the students to find and open from inside Word or whatever program they are using
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17:19
<bieb>
?
17:25
where did everyone go?
17:27
<vlt>
ltsp-build-client seems to fetch some packages from archive.ubuntu.com instead of the location specified by "--mirror=" option. How to fix that?
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19:26
<vagrantc>
alkisg: thanks for the packaging review
19:26
alkisg: i believe the case of the short descriptions is set up to whatever lintian doesn't complain about
19:27
alkisg: so i don't want to change the case there.
19:28
<alkisg>
vagrantc: no problem from me, I think the objective is to have all packages use the same initial letter case so that they show up nice in synaptic or wherever else (packagekit, software center etc)
19:29
I don't know which one should that be, if stgraber doen't mind too I can sync the short descriptions too
19:29
(or he can do it)
19:30
Let me see if I had any questions or doubts anywhere about debian/control... moment..
19:32
<vagrantc>
alkisg: and a new TFTP server ... fun! :)
19:33
<alkisg>
Haha not in the short todo list, but it would help in centralizing all our configuration :D
19:33
<vagrantc>
ldminfod seemslike a bit much to shunt in there, though
19:34
<alkisg>
vagrantc: it's a python module, it can be called from an external file
19:34
<vagrantc>
especially to support multiple LDM servers properly.
19:34
alkisg: it's just using netcat with ldminfod is nice and simple.
19:35
throwing another potentially backwards-incompatible use case seems like more trouble than it's worth... maybe.
19:35
<alkisg>
We can also put a proxydhcp server there, in just a few lines :D But anyway those are long term plans I'd like to focus on the short term ones first...
19:35
So... I think that we don't really need an ltsp-server-dnsmasq package anymore, do we?
19:36
Just an ltsp-config tool would be enough, as ltsp-server-standalone does allow selecting dnsmasq instead of dhcp3/tftpd-hpa...
19:36
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it would be good to not have to go through NEW processing ... it seems to have gotten a lot slower again :(
19:36
alkisg: yes, i like that idea.
19:36
more later, gotta hit the floor.
19:37
<alkisg>
OK, bb
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19:53
<bieb>
vagrantc: you still here?
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20:00
<vagrantc>
bieb: nope.
20:00
<bieb>
vagrantc: damn you even ledt voicemail.. LOL
20:03
vagrantc: I have a scripting/programming question for LTSP.. I am running 10.04 (moving to 12.04 next week), is there a way to script when a usb device is plugged into the thin client that it maps to /hom/%username% instead of /media/username/device?
20:05
vagrantc: oops.. Ubuntu 10.04
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20:16
<vagrantc>
bieb: nope.
20:16
<bieb>
vagrantc: damnnnn
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21:17
<vagrantc>
aw, lost alkisg
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21:55
<darkpixel_>
Where/what triggers ltspfs when a USB drive in inserted? I didn't see anything in udev. The reason I'm searching is that an order came down from 'the top' that all USB drives must be mounted read-only so employees can't take confidential data off the network (although they are fine with employees bringing data in on the drives). Can someone point me in the right direction?
21:56
<vagrantc>
udev triggers an event which calls ltspfs_entry
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21:58
<darkpixel_>
vagrantc: I just noticed udev on the server side has rules relating to ltspfs--but wouldn't those be triggered by udev on the client? (and be in the ltsp-chroot image?)
21:58
<vagrantc>
which writes to /var/run/ltspfs_fstab and if already logged in via ldm, it does the direct mount on the server ... and there's an ldm rc.d hook that mounts at boot if the user wasn't logged in at that time
21:58
darkpixel_: the server-side udev shouldn't have any ltspfs rules.
21:58
!distro
21:58
<ltsp`>
vagrantc: I do not know about 'distro', but I do know about these similar topics: 'bestltspdistro'
21:59
<vagrantc>
!release
21:59
<ltsp`>
vagrantc: release: please mention the linux distro and release you're using :)
21:59
<vagrantc>
darkpixel_: that ^^ :)
21:59
<darkpixel_>
vagrantc: I think I see what's going on here.
21:59
vagrantc: Ubuntu 12.04
22:00
vagrantc: Correction--this server is 11.10. (There are three servers, the other two are 12.04)
22:01
<vagrantc>
oh.
22:02
then you should see the clients udev rules in /opt/ltsp/i386/lib/udev/rules.d/*ltspfs* in 11.10, and /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/ltspfsd.rules on 12.04
22:02
<vlt>
Hello. ltsp-build-client seems to fetch some packages from archive.ubuntu.com instead of the location specified by the "--mirror=" option. How to fix that?
22:03
<vagrantc>
but it's fetching most from the mirror specified?
22:03
<darkpixel_>
vagrantc: Thanks--I apparently did a bad grep while digging for the rules inside the client image. Thanks for the help.
22:04
<vagrantc>
darkpixel_: and if you make changes to either of those, you'll need to run ltsp-update-image for it to get propegated to the NBD image.
22:04
<darkpixel_>
vagrantc: Yup. Thanks.
22:05* vagrantc still would like to implement some sort of overlay system for ltsp.
22:07
<vlt>
vagrantc: Yes, most pkgs are fetched from the specified mirror (proxy in this case). But a few directly from archive.ubuntu.com (like the 37 MB kernel package o_O).
22:08
<vagrantc>
vlt: it's probably pulling from security updates or "regular" updates.
22:09
<vlt>
vagrantc: But why?
22:10
<vagrantc>
because updated packages are probably a good thing?
22:10
<vlt>
vagrantc: It would get the very same from my caching mirror.
22:10
<vagrantc>
there may be other --mirror-XXX commandline options to also set those to use your proxy if it'll support them.
22:10
look at /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list to see what entries it's added.
22:11
<vlt>
vagrantc: Thank you.
22:11
<vagrantc>
then look at "ltsp-build-client --extra-help" for other mirror options that might be able to be configured to use your proxy.
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22:37
<vlt>
Ok, now with the --XXX-mirror options set it worked. Thanks.
22:38
<vagrantc>
good.
22:38
<vlt>
I’ve read --extra-help but found no --include option. How can I tell ltsp-build-client to add packages into the client image?
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23:16
<vlt>
Maybe I should try something else: Does anyone know how I can install packages in the client chroot without them being run? What does debootstrap do when installing a pkg to prevent any started or stopped processes on the “host” system?
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