IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 21 January 2010   (all times are UTC)

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02:23
<gnunux>
hi
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06:04
<pixie79>
hi, i have been wondering is it possible with ltsp for the server to be hosted on the internet and the client/s to be elsewhere accessing via DSL?
06:05
<Appiah>
well there is nothing in "ltsp" for that
06:05
someone people use nx for that
06:06
<pixie79>
nx ?
06:06
<alkisg>
Also it'll be *very* slow, because remote X needs a lot of bandwidth
06:06
<kaos01>
like vnc , remote desktop
06:06
i have a problem with local devices
06:06
<alkisg>
freenx, rdp, vnc etc are better for low bandwidth
06:06
<pixie79>
that i what i expected might bbe te answer
06:06
thanks
06:06
<kaos01>
seems the device not the partition gets mounted when i insert usb
06:07
<Appiah>
"FreeNX"
06:07
:)
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06:37
<sep>
pixie79, i have used both freenx and x2go, i have a feeling x2go is more developed and going into distros easier.
06:38
<pixie79>
ok thanks sep, i will have a look at that as well
06:40
<Pod2>
anyone know where the default debian boot splash image is stored?
06:41
and for that matter, which boot splash program is used in lenny?
06:41
google has failed me so far
06:41
<Appiah>
tried a debian channel?
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06:42
<Pod2>
no, not yet
06:43
given that I can't find much about it, I wasn't sure if ltsp did it differently some how
06:48
<alkisg>
Pod2: do you mean the clients or the server?
06:48
Hmm boot splash.. never mind
06:50
<Pod2>
clients. I've just started using ltsp5 and can't figure out where the boot splash image is
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08:51
<Damianos>
hello
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08:56
<Damianos>
Can somebody help me trouble shoot my setup? I have two servers (real and vm) and three thin clients (1 vm & 1 real PXE & 1 real with GPXE floppy boot). My results: Server vm->real clients work...real server->vm client works...Real server->real clients doesn't work.
08:57
<Appiah>
what does not work?
08:57
<Damianos>
my real server to real clients will not work
08:58
When testing using a vm on either the server end or the client end, everything works really well
08:58
I'm stumped
08:59
<Appiah>
well what in your "real to real" is not working
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08:59
<Damianos>
thin clients will not boot
08:59
<Appiah>
what error?
08:59
What happends?
09:00
<Damianos>
it times out when waiting for dhcp to give an address and then the error message is "Bad media, check your cable"
09:00
<Appiah>
is the dhcpd running on the server?
09:00
how are they connected?
09:01
<Damianos>
yes...when I hook up the real server directly to my laptop's vm, I succesfully boot via pxe
09:01
the server has 2 NIC.
09:02
1 facing my LAN and the other directly connecting to the thin client
09:02
the dhcp server is using a different subnet
09:02
<Appiah>
so
09:02
no switch between?
09:02
<Damianos>
no
09:03
what throws me off is that it works with a vm client but not on real clients
09:03
<Appiah>
I would do a tcpdump on the server
09:03
see if it even gets a DHCP request and such
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09:05
<Damianos>
ok ... I hate to be such a newb but how do I do that?
09:07
<Appiah>
sniffing traffic
09:08
I'd use tcpdump
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09:08
<Appiah>
and/or check dhcpd logs
09:11
<sbalneav>
Morning all
09:12
<damianos_>
good morning
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09:13
<etyack>
sbalneav: Morning.
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09:18
<alincoln>
what's the preferred way to submit patches? merge requests via launchpad against lp:~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk?
09:24
<CAN-o-SPAM>
sbalneav ? ^
09:24
<sbalneav>
alincoln: I usually find the best way's patches attached to specific bugs, but that's just me.
09:24
alincoln: of course, asking in here always works :)
09:25
<damianos_>
Appiah I'm downloading wireshark so I can see what's going on
09:26
<alincoln>
sbalneav: if it's something that's not already filed as a bug, you want it filed then a patch attached?
09:27
<sbalneav>
What's your patch fixing?
09:27
<alincoln>
--copy-sourceslist doesn't bring over stuff in sources.list.d/
09:27
er, i guess i could ask if that's by design. :)
09:28
<sbalneav>
I'd expect it probably should
09:28
paste the patch to the pastebin, let's have a looksee.
09:28
<alincoln>
ok. i figured it was a reasonable first patch for me. will do.
09:28
<sbalneav>
!pastebbot
09:28
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: Error: "pastebbot" is not a valid command.
09:28
<sbalneav>
!pastebot
09:28
<ltspbot>
sbalneav: "pastebot" :: The LTSP pastebot is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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09:44
<alkisg>
damianos_: if you boot a real client with gpxe, and run dhcp net0, and then config, what do you see?
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09:54
<damianos_>
hang on alkisg...I'm going to hook up the machine that floppy boots
09:54
<alkisg>
damianos_: you can also put gpxe on grub very easily (I even have a package for this, for Karmic)
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10:02
<Damianos__>
Sorry alkisg I got a read error off the floppy. I'm rewriting it now and I will post back when I try again
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10:19
<Damianos__>
Alkisg: what exactly do I type in? Dhcp net0 + enter?
10:21
<alkisg>
Damianos__: ctrl+b to get a prompt
10:21
then: dhcp net0
10:21
if that succeeds, you can see what the dhcp server gave you with: config
10:21
<damianos_>
ok I did that and it says could not configure timed out
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10:23
<alkisg>
Can you describe your network topology/
10:23
?
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10:23
<alkisg>
"1 server there with 2 nics connected to that router and that switch ..."
10:24
<damianos_>
no...the NIC facing the client is directly connected via ethernet
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10:27
<dro>
good morning
10:27
pmatulis: any issues with me using the ltsp server as the iscsi server and client?
10:28
<alkisg>
Damianos__: you have 1 ethernet cable connecting directly your client with your server?
10:28
Is that a cross cable?
10:29
<Damianos>
It's just a cat5 cable
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10:30
<Damianos>
or I should say just a regular off the shelf ethernet
10:30
<pmatulis>
dro: from a purely hypothetical view, i don't think there is a problem. of course it is not a perfect test of my writeup
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10:30
<alkisg>
Damianos__: Then if won't work. You need a switch, or this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_crossover_cable
10:31
*it
10:31
<dro>
pmatulis: ok I have limited space on my home server, i'll wipe it and create 2 small ubuntu vm's, makes sense to seperate them
10:31
<Damianos>
ok...but I still don't understand why it works when connected to my laptop with a VM?
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10:32
<alkisg>
How did you connect them? What was the topology?
10:32
<dro>
Damianos: your laptop might be smart enough to "cross it" for you
10:32
most desktops will not do that
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10:33
<Damianos>
I have a macbook with vmware...the vm has exclusive access to the ethernet port and I simply connected them with a standard ethernet cable....I also tried to run a vm from laptop to client with the same cable and the thin client booted
10:33
this is bizarre
10:34
lol
10:34
<dro>
Damianos: laptops that are newer can normally "cross it" for you
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10:34
<dro>
Damianos: desktops or thin clients will amost never "cross it" for you
10:35
<Damianos>
aaaah, ok ....there is a switch at the school,...I'll bring a couple of cables and try going through the switch next time
10:35
<dro>
Damianos: make a cross over cable or buy one, you will need it, and they're cheap
10:35
<Damianos>
If I turn off the dhcp server on an extra wireless router I have will that act like a switch?
10:36
<dro>
Damianos: it might but it might also cause more issues
10:36
<Damianos>
lol yeah you're right...I'll go look at that link about crossover cables
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10:36
<dro>
Damianos: you know how to create your own cables?
10:37
<Damianos>
nope
10:37
<dro>
Damianos: you live in the us? go to staples and buy one for $10
10:37
<Damianos>
never done it but I'm always up for learning new stuff
10:37
yes sir
10:38
would a hub work too or does it have to be a switch
10:39
<dro>
Damianos: a hub would work but might also cause more issues
10:39
<Damianos>
ok
10:40
<dro>
Damianos: I go by this rule, "doing it right the first time prevents me from having to do more work later"
10:40
Damianos: so if you use the right equipment, you won't create more unneccesary work for yourself
10:41
<Damianos>
well maybe I should just hook it up to a switch and see if that works because in the end, that's how this will be deployed
10:41
<dro>
Damianos: that might also dhcp issues
10:41
<Damianos>
ok
10:42
I'll grab a crossover and try that first
10:42
<dro>
that would be best
10:42
<Damianos>
thanks a million for the help guys...I'll be back later and let you know how it goes
10:42
<dro>
then start looking into your dhcp options
10:42
<Damianos>
ok
10:42
<dro>
Damianos: sounds good!
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10:44
<nsweet>
can anyone help me resolve an issue with mount errors on the client when it boots?
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10:45
<alkisg>
nsweet: karmic?
10:45
<nsweet>
yes
10:45
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/435228
10:45
same as this
10:46
<alkisg>
Usually you can ignore those, so possibly your problem is somewhere else
10:48
<nsweet>
alkisg: ok, i'll keep hunting then.. clients boot sometimes, but not always.. and when they do boot, they boot really slow
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10:50
<johnny>
alkisg, sbalneav , others:
10:50
"YouTube is now offering the experimental option to view all YouTube videos using HTML5 in H.264 format. Supported browsers are Chrome, Safari, and the ChromeFrame plug-in for Internet Explorer. Captions, ads, and annotations aren't yet supported but are coming soon."
10:51
getting there...
10:52
<alkisg>
johnny: is that something new? Didn't they have such a site some months ago?
10:53
<johnny>
alkisg, perhaps.. but my guess is that they really are going to make it possible on the main youtube site
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10:53* alkisg centainly hopes so
10:53
<johnny>
it seems that adobe is making some misteps by not optimizing for linux
10:53
ones they didn't realize they were making
10:54
<alkisg>
johnny: it should also be possible to make a plugin to start flash player locally with the xembed stuff that someone mentioned a while ago. That would be much better imho.
10:54
<johnny>
as google isn't going to let adobe stop them from using linux and not sucking up every bit of battery power :)
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11:55
<Pod2>
is any magic required to get ps/2 mice and keyboards working in ltsp5?
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11:58
<alkisg>
No, they should work out of the box
11:58
<Pod2>
mine aren't
11:59
they are actually usb but using individual ps2 converters (that came with them)
11:59
as usb they work fine
11:59
<CAN-o-SPAM>
Pod2: what kind of thin client hardware?
11:59
<Pod2>
the client is SiS550 based
12:00
Neoware CA5
12:00
they work fine in 4.2
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12:03
<beng>
hey all
12:03
we've just set up a ltsp server here and it's great
12:03
using the backported 5.1.10 on Debian Lenny install
12:03
we want to run a script which terminates all the users processes before login
12:04
I used to do this with KDM config file
12:04
but with LDM I'm lost
12:04
any ideas?
12:06
<alkisg>
beng: a script that would terminate the existing processes from the user who's logging in?
12:07
<beng>
yes, but before they've logged in obviously
12:07
<alkisg>
I think LDM_LIMIT_ONE_SESSION lts.conf variable does something like that...
12:07
<beng>
we use it to clear up an persistent processes a user has left lying around
12:08
I'll look at LDM_LIMIT_ONE_SESSION
12:08
can't find any record of that in the docs
12:08
<alkisg>
Google for it, it's undocumented :P
12:09
Also search with site:nubae.com, the ltsp logs are there
12:09
(the irc channel logs)
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12:22
<beng>
alkisg, yeah all that stuffs in the appropriate scripts and it appears to work, nice one
12:23
<alkisg>
:)
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12:24
<beng>
alkisg, it's not enough!
12:24
<alkisg>
No? Processes are still left alive?
12:24
<beng>
we need it to kill all the process regardless of whether there's someone logged in or not
12:25
we are looking for residual process, not just sessions
12:25
actually, we also need to sync with /etc/skel as the user logs in
12:26
we want no persistent user data or sessions
12:26
<alkisg>
beng: well the script that handles it is named S15-userLoginCheck, so either modify it or put something similar in rc.d...
12:26
<beng>
Yeah I reckon
12:26
I can't find how the scripts in rc.d are organised though
12:27
presumably file beging S are executed in order
12:27
<alkisg>
S = start
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12:27
<beng>
sorry, just found the docs
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12:27
<alkisg>
or session? :D
12:28
<beng>
I = before the greeter
12:28
we need our script to go there
12:28
and we need to run it on the server
12:28
<alkisg>
Really? You don't even know the username of the user loggin in at that point...
12:28
<beng>
sort of do, as it's autologin
12:29
hmmm
12:29
<alkisg>
You don't have an ssh connection at that point afaik
12:29
<beng>
so I need to wait for the S stage
12:30
when username will be all sorted for me
12:32
okay, I've added line... let's see
12:34
<_UsUrPeR_>
Can anybody decipher for me what happened in this FC12 ltsp-build-client? http://pastebin.com/m3bc394ff
12:35
<beng>
BIAB
12:35
<_UsUrPeR_>
this is the third thing I did after 1) creating network connections and 2) yum update
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12:41
<alincoln>
sbalneav: simple patch to allow --copy-sourceslist to move over files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/m3579473c
12:42
since this may be used with ppas, --apt-keys becomes important
12:42
and afaict, --apt-keys requires that the key be in a file and the filename be passed with --apt-keys to work.
12:42
which doesn't seem right to me.
12:43
shouldn't it either take the direct output from apt-key export, or even take a key id?
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12:46
<alincoln>
i guess i'm assuming that the ppa key is already on the server. this is probably safe.
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12:53
<alkisg>
alincoln: so you're thinking of automatically exporting the keys from the server and importing them to the chroot?
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12:55
<alincoln>
alkisg: well, i think it'd be best if --apt-keys was still needed explicitly, but it took key ids. then it would be a simple 'apt-key list' and put the ones you want in the build-client command
12:57
<alkisg>
alincoln: if one wants to copy all the sources of the server, is there any reason for not wanting to copy all the server keys as well?
12:57
I.e. then he wouldn't have to specify keys by ID, just tell build client to "copy everything"...
12:57
<alincoln>
alkisg: that's probably a fair solution
12:57
since the point is to echo the server's setup.
12:58
<alkisg>
So maybe `apt-key exportall` could be used
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12:59
<alincoln>
alkisg: ah, yes.
13:00
good idea
13:04
<alkisg>
So the real question is, "in which use cases would one want to run `ltsp-build-client --copy-sourceslist`, but not copy sources.list.d, and/or not copy the server's apt keys?"
13:09
<johnny>
if there is a ppa that say.. contains a newer version of some that you want on the server, but not on the client?
13:10* vagrantc thinks copy-sourceslist is a bad idea
13:10
<johnny>
vagrantc, why?
13:11
<vagrantc>
johnny: there are so many possible configurations where it would do the wrong thing, even though in default scenarios it will probably do the right thing.
13:11
johnny: largely permutations on the example you gave
13:12
<johnny>
i'd be happy with --copy-repos=universe,main,multiverse
13:12
or whatever
13:12
<vagrantc>
ppa's, backports... someone who pulls a known set of packages from the newer version...
13:12
<alincoln>
so without it, you make the admin go into the chroot and edit it manually? or you leave it in, and let the admin edit the sources manually in the strange cases.
13:12
<vagrantc>
you'd almost have to copy /etc/apt/preferences* too, to make it sane... and even then, it's all kinds of guesswork.
13:12
<johnny>
vagrantc, i think it is important to be able to copy stgraber's ppa
13:12
as early as posssible
13:13
so we should be able to inject repos in some fashion
13:13
<vagrantc>
johnny: sure, but there's numerous other ways to accomplish that.
13:13
copy-sourceslist is a shotgun approach.
13:13
<johnny>
yeah... as long as i can copy a specific list, i'm OK without it
13:13
<vagrantc>
it might solve the problem in many cases, but it has high potential for unintended consequences.
13:14* alkisg is right now writing a private plugin that adds his own repositories... vagrantc, what are the alternatives?
13:14
<vagrantc>
but that's why i don't include it in debian :)
13:14
y'all are free to do whatever you want with ubuntu
13:14
<alkisg>
Heh
13:14
<vagrantc>
alkisg: --extra-mirror ?
13:14
--early-mirror
13:14
<alkisg>
But what about the keys/
13:14
?
13:15
<vagrantc>
--apt-keys ?
13:15
<alkisg>
How would I find those files?
13:15
I'd tell the sysadmin to download them? Or make a deb with them?
13:15
<vagrantc>
whatever you think is easier
13:15* alkisg thinks a private plugin is easier :)
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13:16
<vagrantc>
could even include a plugin by default like: --use-ppa's
13:16
if it's a stable location
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13:16
<alkisg>
Ubuntu has an "add-apt-repository" command, is that in recent Debian versions too?
13:16
<vagrantc>
:q
13:16
heh
13:16
<alkisg>
It's supposed to handle more than just PPAs... :D
13:16
<vagrantc>
don't see add-apt-repository in ltsp-trunk...
13:17
but there's extra-mirror and early-mirror in both debian and ubuntu
13:17
<alkisg>
No, I meant it's a normal command, unrelated to ltsp
13:17
<vagrantc>
alkisg: sure, but that's an example for a common thing people will add
13:17
<johnny>
vagrantc, i like being able to do it by the name of the repo.. and copy the keys for me too... for those i specified
13:17
<vagrantc>
alkisg: ah, no idea.
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13:18
<vagrantc>
--include-bonus-mirrors ppa,backports,foo
13:18
with some predefined settings...
13:18
maybe none of it is stable enough, though.
13:18
<alkisg>
vagrantc: http://packages.debian.org/sid/python-software-properties
13:18
add-apt-repository is there...
13:19
It adds a repo to sources.list.d/ and also fetches the key
13:20
Hmm or maybe it's an Ubuntu addition :D
13:20
nm
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13:21
<vagrantc>
don't know about it in either case :)
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13:25
<beng>
alkisg, got the two things fixed in the end
13:25
added lines to both S01 and S15 in the end
13:25
S01 does the sync, S15 slays selected processes
13:26
<knipwim>
johnny: concerning the pre_set_timezone function
13:26
i've looked at the timezone call
13:26
<beng>
cheers for the help, much appreciated, now I have a ltsp-5.0 rc script understanding
13:26
<knipwim>
it only sets the $timezone variable, which is use in set_timezone()
13:26
<alkisg>
beng, nice :)
13:26
<knipwim>
so no recurrency
13:27
<beng>
now, getting the keyboard to be UK not US
13:27
...
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14:21
<alkisg>
Hmm extra-mirror doesn't allow for different dist/components...
14:23
<vagrantc>
sure it does
14:23
you can specify the whole line (minus the deb part).
14:24
alkisg: ^^
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14:24
<alkisg>
Ah, thanks vagrantc :)
14:28
<vagrantc>
it's maybe not the most elegant way from the user's perspective... though specifying the components separately is probably no better.
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14:37
<alkisg>
I'm writing an extra long ltsp-build-client.conf with much documentation, and I'm hoping it'll be easy enough for the teachers to comment out any entries they want...
14:38
Of course some plugins _are_ needed (e.g. copying italc keys, ssh keys, squid settings etc) but way less than I imagined at start...
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14:39
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it's a pretty flexible system :)
14:39
<alkisg>
Yup :)
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14:40
<dro>
i used the server install for my ltsp server
14:41
would you guys recommend to install ubuntu-desktop or is there a smaller gnome option?
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15:25
<vagrantc>
i'm looking at the abominable localapp user/group pruning shell code and wondering if it wouldn't be cleaner, simpler, faster and more maintainable to re-write it in python, perl or C.
15:26* alkisg has some code for group handling in python...
15:27
<alkisg>
Python also has some libraries for passwd/group etc reading
15:27
What's the script name?
15:30
<vagrantc>
ltsp-trunk/localapps/ldm-rc.d/X01-localapps
15:35
<alkisg>
Woah messy...
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15:36
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so kind, you are. :)
15:36* vagrantc wonders if this wouldn't be resolved by sbalneav's wonderful libpam-ssh stuff
15:36
<alkisg>
Sorry - I mean the _task_ was so hard that it's difficult to read it
15:37
The coder was excellent :D
15:37
<vagrantc>
alkisg: well, i called it abominable.
15:37
it is certainly a few iterations of cleverness, i'll grant... but every time i have to look at it my muscles tense up.
15:38
i had my hand in it at some point...
15:39
but this might be a case where the limits of shell and/or sanity are being pushed.
15:40
<alkisg>
Why can't the same system users be used on both the server and the chroot? As part of the chroot creation process?
15:41
*system groups, mostly...
15:41
<vagrantc>
alkisg: because you may not necessarily be logging into the server that the chroot is on, for one...
15:41
alkisg: groups might be added after ltsp chroot was built...
15:41
<alkisg>
Ooops. Didn't think of that.
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15:43
<vagrantc>
groups get added as part of package postinst (at least on debian/ubuntu), so you'd have to go through and change all teh chroot group permissions after installation...
15:44
i.e. group foo is added, so then you'll need to walk the whole filesystem looking for group foo if it's inconsistant with the server's group foo
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15:45
<alkisg>
Yeah I assumed that if the server files were copied before the postinsts, then it'd be OK, but it's very possible that there are some groups in the chroot that are not on the server...
15:45
<vagrantc>
it's a messy problem all around
15:46
<alkisg>
I've programmed a user export/import program in python
15:46
Python does make it much easier
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15:47
<alkisg>
But of course I didn't have to worry about "Problem with AD. Space not permited here." or "# Read-only /etc cannot use usermod"...
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15:48
<vagrantc>
those things should be easier to handle in python than in shell
15:48
<dro>
anyone want to help me make sense of this line:
15:48
sudo ietadm --op new --tid=2 --params Name=iqn.192.168.1.94:disk_c
15:49
<alkisg>
Yeah... pwds = pwd.getpwall() spwds = spwd.getspall() grps = grp.getgrall() much better in python ;)
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16:05
<alkisg>
johnny: I'm watching html 5 video on youtube, and it needs more CPU than flash player! :D
16:06vagrantc has quit IRC
16:06
<johnny>
what player is it using?
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16:07
<alkisg>
I guess it has an embedded player, I don't see any know player references..
16:09
<johnny>
what happens when you right click on it?
16:09
<alkisg>
This must be the player process: opt/google/chrome/chrome --channel=17832.36aa7b0.1208987919 --type=renderer --lang=el --force-fieldtest=AsyncSlowStart/_AsyncSlowStart/CacheSize/CacheSizeGroup_0/DnsImpact/_default_enabled_prefetch/GlobalSdch/_global_disable_sdch/HttpPrioritization/_no_http_prioritization/SocketLateBinding/_disable_late_binding/
16:10
It displays the standard chrome menu, "back, save as" etc
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17:18
<dro>
anyone worked with the iscsi setup that pmatulis setup?
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