IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 21 May 2010   (all times are UTC)

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04:52
<sakhi_>
morning
04:54
I have created a VM (libvirt) restarted the server and the clients are not booting up. dhcp-server is running... what am I missing here?
04:55
the first user can can log-on but the rest cannot even after sshkeys and image update.
04:57
<alkisg>
Erm, if the clients are not booting up, how can the users log on?
04:58* alkisg didn't understand the problem...
04:58
<Appiah>
Can the clients PXE boot but not logon at the LDM?
04:58
<sakhi_>
alkisg: that was before.
04:58
alkisg: that was before I restarted the server.
04:59
<alkisg>
Ah, so now they boot normally but they cannot logon?
04:59
<sakhi_>
but now the clients are not booking up.
04:59
<Appiah>
Where does it stop?
05:00
<sakhi_>
at the point where is searches for the DHCP server and cannot find it.
05:00
<Appiah>
at the PXE boot?
05:00
<sakhi_>
yep
05:00
dhcp-servers is running
05:00
<alkisg>
Does the dhcp server provide a boot filename?
05:00
<Appiah>
did you update something?
05:00
<alkisg>
(dhcpd.conf)
05:00
<sakhi_>
yep I did
05:01
I updated sshkeys and the image hoping other users will be able to logon to the thin client server.
05:02
<alkisg>
dhcp is before the image is loaded
05:02
So updating the chroot wouldn't matter at that point
05:05
<sakhi_>
yep, this is my current config and the way it was before: http://paste.ubuntu.com/437224/
05:12
<alkisg>
Are you sure that lines 61-65 are correct?
05:16
<sakhi_>
it was like that when the clients worked, I'm sure, how would you have it?
05:17
<alkisg>
I'd use the default example dhcpd.conf...
05:17
<sakhi_>
alkisg: the first IP is the VM server IP.
05:18
<alkisg>
/usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples/dhcpd.conf
05:18
(on my Ubuntu at least)
05:19
<sakhi_>
same here
05:19
<alkisg>
E.g. now you don't send a boot filename...
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05:28
<sakhi_>
eish...
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05:53
<alkisg>
sakhi_: use the default dhcp file, and just change your subnet
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06:26
<sakhi_>
if had big shoes I would kick myself to timbak-toe now yerrrr
06:27
working on the wrong server
06:36
<Appiah>
?
06:51
<sakhi_>
oh well it happens that I had two LTSP virtual servers and I was creating user accounts and really working on the other (wrong) server in the meantime the proper server was also up. It's a long story. I'm busy setting up DNS from scratch now, this should be quick and fun.
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07:33
<sakhi_>
I
07:33
sorry
07:34
<Appiah>
:)
07:34
<sakhi_>
I'm not sure if anyone else has had this problem before or it's new. When I add users via the GUI and cat /etc/passw I noticed a slight difference.
07:35
test:x:1001:1001:,,,,:/home/test:/bin/bash
07:35
user1:x:1002:1002:,,,,:/home/user1:/bin/bash
07:35
test1:x:1003:1003::/home/test1:/bin/sh
07:36
the user test and user1 can log on to the LTSP server but test user 1 cannot and you would think that you need to to update sshkeys and image.
07:37
this is a VM LTSP server.
07:42
<Appiah>
if you go to a terminal
07:42
and set a new password for the user that cant
07:42
+logon
07:42
Can you logon now?
07:46
<sakhi_>
ohhh you know what, when you add users on the gui without real names they will not exist even when you go to the /home/ dir and do a ls -ilah
07:47* sakhi_ stops with the double posting :)
07:48
<sakhi_>
it makes sense though to have it setup like that.
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08:46
<sbalneav>
If anyone's got time today, I'd love someone to test the new xexit
09:03
<Appiah>
what's that?
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11:12
<sbalneav>
OK, so here's the test I've run with xexit:
11:13
Log in as a user.
11:13
xexit's running
11:13
4 exit scripts:
11:13
11kill-evo-dataserv: pgrep -f evolution-data-server | xargs kill -9 || true
11:14
12pulseaudio
11:14
pgrep pulseaudio | xargs kill || true
11:14
20gconf-shutdown
11:14
gconftool-2 --shutdown || true
11:14
99killeverything
11:14
pkill -9 -u $USER
11:15
xexit's running.
11:15
Log out cleanly, no dead processes left: completely logged off.
11:15
log in again
11:15
xexit's running
11:16
pull powercord on thin client (worst case scenario logout)
11:16
15 seconds later
11:16
all user processes cleaned up.
11:16
xexit should work for: any desktop
11:16
binary's 5l
11:16
5k, sorry
11:17
<ogra_cmpc>
omg 5 liters ?
11:17
<sbalneav>
took me 5l of beer to write :)
11:17
<ogra_cmpc>
hehe
11:18
<sbalneav>
I'll build a .deb for anyone interested...
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11:32
<cliebow>
ill get you 5 l of "Old Tree Frog"!
11:34
<sbalneav>
Good, I'll drink it in October!
11:37
<cliebow>
You are ON!!
11:38
Ill help!!
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11:43
<cliebow>
Scottie: you useing the slapd.d configs for ldap?
11:45
<sbalneav>
cliebow: I've got a currently "older" ldap server that's running the config files
11:45
But I've written a howto for the newer way to do ldap
11:46
https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/WikiSite/SimpleLDAPSetup
11:47
OK I've got a lucid xexit package building in my ppa
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11:48
<cliebow>
Ohhh Boy!!..trying to track down and olcAccess error
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11:49
<sbalneav>
what's the error?
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12:02
<cliebow>
sbalneav: i see an error 50
12:04
oh..ill get which attribute
12:05
yeah in this case uidNumber
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12:07
<cliebow>
i ihad to increase sizelimit or pdbedit would crap out..so looking for olcAccess
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12:47
<sidartha>
hello! I'm recently new to ltsp, but am looking to build a server that will need to support 12 - 15 high intensity clients. Running gimp, flash, etc. Does anyone have a suggestion on wether I should look at the new 6 core amd processors, or a quad i7, or xeon II?
12:57
<sbalneav>
sidartha: If you're looking to run a lot of flash, I'd reccommend you either use localapps, or the fatclient plugin
13:00
<sidartha>
Im planning on it. However I would like to have some overhead on the server cause my clients are pretty old legacy machines. I am alos planning on using a ton of ram. I just need to pick a processor, any suggestions?
13:03
<sbalneav>
"As high as you can afford" is the usual mantra around here :)
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13:03
<sbalneav>
Ram will give you more "bang for the buck" than you think, as well.
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13:04
<sbalneav>
So don't skimp on the GB's
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13:04
<sbalneav>
On one server, I support about 40 people doing web, and OpenOffice with 2 dual xeons, and 8 gigs of ram.
13:05
<sidartha>
Im planiing around 12 gb of ram.. I guess the processors Im looking at are all around 200-300. Im just tring to figure that would the ltsp benifit from the 6 core amd, versus hyperthreading 17 quad?
13:06
i7 imean
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13:16
<cliebow>
sbalneav: i get an err=50 searching for uidNumber .I added uidNumber
13:16
olcAccess {0}to attrs=userPassword,uidNumber by dn="cn=admin,dc=rsu24,dc=org" write by anonymous auth by self write by * none
13:16
inhdb
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13:16
<cliebow>
with no effect
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14:47
<denisesball>
do you guys recommend using stgraber's ppa on ubuntu lucid or just using the stable packages from there?
14:48
<alkisg>
I don't think there are any updated packages in stgraber's ppa yet
14:48
<denisesball>
ok i figured that might be,
14:49
<alkisg>
Personally I got my own ppa and I copy there whatever I need
14:49
(e.g. now I have a newer ltsp version which supports passing nfs mounting options...)
14:49
(launchpad makes it very easy to copy packages from a ppa to your own ppa)
14:50
<denisesball>
which mounting options? im using the lucid stable packages with nfs without issues so far
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14:51
<alkisg>
Nah never mind I was talking about fat client - my point was that it's handy to have a personal repository...
14:51
<denisesball>
lol ok
14:51
we definitely have nfs issues on our current setup (old) so i was curious
14:52
<alkisg>
I had some problems with statd not starting on linux,
14:52
*lucid,
14:53
<denisesball>
yeah i think that's a bug
14:53
<alkisg>
so any clients that wanted locks were hanging,
14:53
so I'm putting "nolock" to get around that problem, and it's also faster.
14:53
<denisesball>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/525154
14:54
i've been following that pretty closely, but i havent really seen any issues with it
14:54
i see the server hang, but it still mounts
14:57
<alkisg>
Ah, I've read about that /var problem, but that's not what we're experiencing
14:57
<denisesball>
oh ok
14:57
<alkisg>
We just have an nfs-shared /home
14:57
<denisesball>
yeah same here
14:57
<alkisg>
With thin clients? Why?
14:57
<denisesball>
the ubuntu wiki says the gnome watchdog isnt needed anymore, but i notice if a user doesnt log out properly they still have processes running
14:58
thin clients? because we have many term servers and they all mount the same /home over nfs
14:58
<alkisg>
Got it. At some point gnome watchdog was needed even if a user logged off normally.
14:59
That's what the wiki is referring to
14:59
<denisesball>
ah ok
14:59
i just dont trust our users to do that :)
14:59
<alkisg>
Now if a client crashes, the user processes will be killed after about 2 hours
14:59
(not all of them, but most of them)
14:59
<denisesball>
oh is that right? good to know
14:59
i did wait a while, but not 2 hours :P
14:59
<alkisg>
2h and 11 minutes to be exact
15:00
<denisesball>
it doesnt seem to affect the user from logging back in, so its not really a big deal
15:00
<alkisg>
sbalneav is creating a very good utility named xexit would will be a much better gnome-watchdog replacement
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15:02
<denisesball>
alkisg: you use noatime for the nfs mount too?
15:03
<alkisg>
denisesball: nope - but it's the first year that I'm using nfs so I don't have any experience with it. Do you recommend using it?
15:05
<denisesball>
i could have swore i read it somewhere but i cant seem to find it now
15:06
<alkisg>
I only heard about it for ext3 mounting options, never for nfs..
15:07
<denisesball>
u could be right
15:10
interesting article i just came across - http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/opensource/?p=64
15:11
nfs has been really slow for us. thinking of trying somethings in there
15:12* alkisg hopes a packaged solution with nfs4+kerberos+ldap+whatever else will be available in the near future... so that we have something like an "active directory" in linux that works out of the box
15:13
<denisesball>
i had a real easy time getting ltsp to work with our ldap
15:14
<alkisg>
OK, but how easy was to setup ldap in the first place?
15:14
<denisesball>
haha, that would be before my time
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15:14
<denisesball>
we basically have an "ldap guy" now
15:15
<alkisg>
Right... I wonder if that's necessary, or if a "simple & preconfigured ldap" package could be made available that suits 98% of the cases - the rest 2% ok would need that ldap guy :)
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15:16
<denisesball>
so you're saying an "all in one" server type of thing?
15:17
<alkisg>
Yes, a "common home and common authentication/accounts" package
15:17
<denisesball>
i spose that would be nice for a lot of people. we have an 8 server ldap cluster, so wouldnt really interest us :P
15:18
<alkisg>
OK, with that size you can afford an ldap guy. But not me, with 12 PCs in a single lab... (like all other schools here)
15:18
<denisesball>
yep, i could definitely see the appeal
15:19
im trying to convert a 100 user debian 4/kde 3 setup into an ubuntu 10.04/gnome environment
15:20
<alkisg>
That should be easier than the opposite :D
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15:21
<denisesball>
haha, the most difficult thing so hard is trying to preserver old configurations. .mozilla seems to carry over easily, but the .kde stuff into gnome is a little wonky
15:28
alkisg: this is what i was thinking of - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FilesystemOptimize
15:29
it is referring to ext3, but the converstation below is about a SAN so i got confuzzled o_O
15:30
i guess the question is, should we be using noatime on the server mounting the disk locally?
15:41
<vagrantc>
use noatime, or at the very least, relatime
15:45
<denisesball>
i'm gonna look into tweaking rsize and wsize too
15:45
part of the fun of inheriting old stuff :P
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15:49
<vagrantc>
the defaults for nfs over TCP shouldn't require much in the way of tweaking rsize/wsize
15:49
that's more of a UDP issue
15:51
<denisesball>
i thought by default if u dont specift tcp it uses udp
15:52
cuz ive had nfs mounts fail where we had UDP blocked and had to manually specify tcp
15:52
although the newer versions seem to try that automatically
15:54
<vagrantc>
i know LTSP clients have used tcp by default for quite some time
15:54
at least on debian
15:56
<Lns>
alkisg: skolelinux has a pretty nifty "cookie cutter ldap" setup. I've been wanting to look into it to see how hard it would be to modularize. They seemed to get a pretty good basis going for school environments, even with a nice web config frontend and all
15:59
<denisesball>
vagrantc: i'm sure the clients do. i mean the server itself though. for mounting home directories
16:00
<alkisg>
Lns, I had a look at it some months ago. Yup, it's a good idea to have a pre-arranged environment. But to be honest I'd like to have something better... I wouldn't want to have to name my server "tejner" and I'd like to have some AD compatibity wherever I could...
16:00
<vagrantc>
denisesball: ahhh
16:01
<Lns>
vagrantc: in debian does nfs mounts on terminals get mounted with noatime/relatime by default?
16:03
<vagrantc>
i don't think it supports the noatime option ... hopefully that means it doesn't use atime at all...
16:03
<Lns>
alkisg: yeah - that's why i kinda shyed away from skole - it was a bit too cookie cutter for me. though i can definitely see the value in the majority of smaller installations. What they're doing is really great though
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16:03
<vagrantc>
but the server serving up NFS should definitely use noatime
16:04
<Lns>
ok
16:04
<alkisg>
vagrantc: thanks for the tip
16:04
<Lns>
any gotchas for using noatime on a single partitioned root disk which contains /home too?
16:05
<vagrantc>
Lns: for the most part, no.
16:05
<Lns>
coolio. thx =)
16:05
<vagrantc>
some mail clients using old mail formats have issue with it
16:06
<Lns>
maildir ftw
16:06
<vagrantc>
pretty much, yeah.
16:06* Lns remounts /
16:06
<vagrantc>
and popularity-contest won't be nearly as useful
16:06
<Lns>
oh really?
16:06
useful to the user or to the dist. maintainers?
16:06
<vagrantc>
if you're concerned about popularity-contest, then relatime is a reasonable compromise
16:07
<Lns>
I like contributing what i can through that =)
16:07
<vagrantc>
basically, the atime status is what popcon uses to determine if a given package has been used or not
16:07
<denisesball>
vagrantc: is there a way to tell if an nfs share is mounted using tcp or udp? mount doesnt say eiuther if you dont specify
16:08
<vagrantc>
denisesball: packet sniffing?
16:08
<denisesball>
yeesh
16:08
<vagrantc>
heh
16:08
<Lns>
hacker!
16:08
=p
16:08
<denisesball>
i think i will just specify to be safe
16:08
<vagrantc>
explicit saves a lot of guesswork :)
16:08
<denisesball>
would using only tcp be slower?
16:09
<vagrantc>
i haven't actually benchmarked any of them... at one point i had lots of problems with UDP so switched to TCP and never went back :)
16:10
<denisesball>
and didnt see any performance decrease huh? mine are all gig, but its a pretty big environment too
16:10
good to kow
16:10
know*
16:11
<vagrantc>
i think at the time i was still using 10-base thin clients and 100-base for the server.
16:11
<denisesball>
well that makes me feel better
16:11
<vagrantc>
denisesball: well the performance difference was from 0% performance to working :)
16:11
<denisesball>
haha
16:12
ok, this work week has concluded. thanks for the help as always guys. later
16:12* vagrantc waves
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