IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 13 July 2012   (all times are UTC)

00:05
<Guest76542>
You rock!! Disabled compiz and now I can log in. I guess the local X server can't properly handle accelerated 3D :-)
00:06
<vagrantc>
lots of software gets confused these days when not running on local hardware :(
00:06
make a lot of bad assumptions ... compiz actually improves performance on hardware that supports it, i hear.
00:06
(with LTSP)
00:07
<Guest76542>
Yep, I am wondering how long before we can't have thin clients anymore. Things are moving in the wrong direction for multi-user setups.
00:08
<vagrantc>
that's part of why LTSP has developed fatclient support, as well as localapps and remoteapps
00:12
<Guest76542>
My little thin clients need a workout :-) Local chrome/firefox with HTML5 and flash could be fun. We have a mix of PCs, zotac and acer netops based on low power stuff, but they do have the nvidia accelerated chipsets so I don't quite know what the issue was w/ compiz.
00:13
<vagrantc>
nvidia doesn't have a good history of providing sane drivers to the community
00:13
<Guest76542>
We still have a couple of 8 year old thin clients for fun, but none of the old netvista ones (256 colors, yikes)
00:13
<vagrantc>
so the reverse-engineered stuff has issues, and the binary drivers they ship tend to have other bugs
00:14
<Guest76542>
I would prefer AMD only with all the work they are doing to open source their stuff, but they are hard to find on thin clients. At the PC level we tend to get them with Intel graphics.
00:15
Basically we buy what's cheapest at the time we do deployments.
00:15
<vagrantc>
intel actually employs upstream X maintainers to get those to work...
00:17
<Guest76542>
Uhmm, I just checked the box I was testing with. It has the intel 82Q35 express integrated controller, that should of worked with the default 12.04 drivers. Maybe I need to look more into it.
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02:16
<vagrantc>
highvoltage: pushed the mist theme that worked for me.
02:16
highvoltage: except for the orange bit.
02:17
just to make progress on it.
02:23
we figure out that orange, and we're ready to upload!
02:55
<highvoltage>
ok thanks vagrantc.
02:56* highvoltage is getting poked about a ton of things atm
02:56
<highvoltage>
(but not complaining, debconf is fun :p)
02:56
even getting suckered into contributing to the debconf 14 bid for montréal :)
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02:58
<vagrantc>
wahoo
03:07
highvoltage: i think i found it
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03:42
<highvoltage>
vagrantc: oh cool! where are you now, the hacklab?
03:43
<vagrantc>
highvoltage: yup.
03:43
highvoltage: yak shaving broken archives to get a test environment for the theme :(
03:47
looks like i finally have a working build
04:02
ugh. i forgot that cdpinger doesn't seem to be working :(
04:06
highvoltage: what i'm kind of thinking is ignoring the suggestion to update-alternatives --remove in postrm ... since i think the bug was triggered by it simply not having the line to remove the theme in the joy theme (it only has the removal for spacefun)
04:07
that will significantly reduce the diff, reduce lintian warnings, and follows current debian policy, not a proposed change to policy that's as yet unresolved.
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05:05ChanServ sets mode: +o knipwim
05:06
<vagrantc>
highvoltage: verified and pushed the color change. should be finally ready to upload tomorrow.
05:07knipwim changes topic to "LTSP Wiki Beta released at http://server.ltsp.org/wiki. Check out Ubuntu, Debian and Gentoo for awesome LTSP-5 integration. Opensuse has kiwi-ltsp and Fedora has k12linux. IRC logs at: http://irclogs.ltsp.org, LTSP Docs: http://docs.ltsp.org"
05:07ChanServ sets mode: -o knipwim
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05:35
<laurei>
Hello my friends, has anyone ever tried to save local cache of the chroot to store on a laptop hard drive for offsite use?
05:35
<muppis>
I did it once.
05:36
<laurei>
yay:) how did you go with that?
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05:36
<muppis>
Just dropped it to hdd, removed nbd mounting from initrd and installed grub.
05:38
There can be some fine tuning what need to do to get it in full shape, like having a local lts.conf and so.
05:39
<laurei>
i'd ideally like to update the laptop when the chroot updates via some scripts, so its always got the latest version, im sure someone has done this outside of ltsp, just wonder how much trouble this would be
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05:40
<muppis>
Doing it for multiple laptops?
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05:42
<muppis>
Only gain what will be from that is you can use wlan instead of lan. But with many of them, it will kill the bandwith.
05:43
<laurei>
yeah muppis for sure, it seems like a natural thing for ltsp to grow into for the userbase' requirements
05:45
I was thinking for example teachers that take the laptops home for the night but still would like to use the same software without having need of a whole new os install
05:45
<muppis>
That's more tricky.
05:45
<laurei>
i can see its hugely complex, yes :)
05:46
<muppis>
I think it's doable, but not usable.
05:46
<laurei>
but its an interesting thought
05:47
the homedir synching would be tricky
05:47
and background syncing of the os
05:48
<muppis>
OS sync can be done in lan, as it not needed everyday. Like once a week, if even then.
05:49
<laurei>
yeah thats a good idea
05:50
then it just rests on a good implementation of local/lan/cloud home dirs
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05:51
<laurei>
if any already exists
05:55
<muppis>
I think it doesn't
05:57
<alkisg>
"I was thinking for example teachers that take the laptops home for the night but still would like to use the same software without having need of a whole new os install "
05:57
==> Are you talking about thin or fat chroots? Because for thin chroots, they'd still have bandwidth problems accessing the server remotely... x2go would be much better in that case
06:01
<laurei>
yeah alkisg fat ones, i like authing with ldap, so nothing changes in the chroot except for updates and the occasional app install
06:02
<alkisg>
And why not normal installations with ltsp-client also installed in them?
06:02
<laurei>
does that work off site?
06:03
<alkisg>
They're normal installations, so yeah
06:04
<laurei>
ive never seen fat clients booting from local disk if thats what you mean?
06:04
<muppis>
Just normal local installation.
06:05
<alkisg>
There's no need for ltsp-build-client nowadays, one can just install ltsp-client over a normal local installation
06:06
After that, only a grub entry and just a bit of initramfs tweaking is needed
06:07
<laurei>
oh yeah ok :) haven't heard of it obviously a big hole in my knowledge right there, but im assuming this would mean administering each individual system separately if they were independent installs?
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06:08
<alkisg>
Yup. Of course you could use some of the mass-maintenance utilities.
06:13
<laurei>
using ltsp in the lan is so easy so i guess trying to extend that to the cloud without taking on a second methodology (or the idea) floats my boat, or is that just nonsense?
06:17
ltsp for world domination anyone?
06:18
<alkisg>
Local caching or image syncing sounds useful for slow LANs, but I don't think it's worth it over WAN with the current speeds
06:19
And, syncing won't be much different with LTSP vs with normal installations
06:20
Btrfs snapshots should help a lot with that...
06:23
<Hyperbyte>
Good morning!
06:24
<alkisg>
Morning Hypey
06:24
<laurei>
syncing shouldn't need to be mission critical over wan as long as it eventually gets done, kind of liike the current os update process
06:25
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, recovered from your vacation yet? ;-)
06:25
<alkisg>
Nah... I can't get myself to look at code just yet :D
06:28
laurei: well if you want to work on it, grub 2 does support booting from loopback images, and you could have a compressed btrfs nbd image instead of a squashfs'ed one in order for rsync to work
06:30
<laurei>
I'd love to, I can't believe how much I've learned so far, may have a little more to go in that though
06:41
what is the advantage of btrfs in this setup?
06:42
<alkisg>
squashfs doesn't support writing
06:42
So you couldn't use rsync with it
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08:11
<qwebirc67796>
hi
08:12
please anyoine can help me?
08:13
<muppis>
Just ask.
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08:38
<Hyperbyte>
!ask | qwebirc67796
08:38
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: Error: "qwebirc67796" is not a valid command.
08:38
<Hyperbyte>
!ask > qwebirc67796
08:38
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: Error: "ask" is not a valid command.
08:38
<Hyperbyte>
eh
08:38
!ask
08:38
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
08:38
<muppis>
!ask | echo qwebirc67796
08:38
<ltsp>
qwebirc67796 ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
08:38
<Hyperbyte>
!ask | echo qwebirc67796
08:38
<ltsp>
qwebirc67796 ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
08:38
<Hyperbyte>
Yeah, got there in the end. :)
08:38
<muppis>
Spammed.
08:39
<Hyperbyte>
:-D
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15:25
<[GuS]>
Hello!
15:25* vagrantc waves
15:27
<[GuS]>
knipwim: Hi, are you there? Just in case, the quickstart installation is failing. Indeed, is failing to fetch from git repos: git-2_initial_clone: can't fetch from git://git.agaffney.org/quickstart.git
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16:01
<[GuS]>
Well, solved. I talked directly with quickstart maintainer.
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16:55
<vagrantc>
highvoltage: uploaded new ldm-themes... will upload a new ldm shortly
16:55
highvoltage: well, later today
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17:14
<highvoltage>
vagrantc: just saw :D
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17:16* vagrantc waves to alkisg
17:16
<alkisg>
Hi vagrantc, hi all
17:16
New ldm-themes? Nice!
17:17
vagrantc: if you're going to upload a new ltsp, you might want to include this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/1020113
17:17
<vagrantc>
now to make it default for wheezy...
17:19
alkisg: that could potentially affect all screen scripts?
17:19
for better or worse?
17:19
<alkisg>
Yes, hopefully in a good way, but it'd need some testing
17:20
<vagrantc>
i don't have a great test environment right now, so i'm pretty cautious given the freeze
17:20
but i was hoping to implement the udev sound handling for freeze
17:20
<alkisg>
Mhm... I might have some time to test + commit tomorrow, if it helps
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17:41
<vagrantc>
alkisg: that'd be good ... tomorrow's that last real day of the conference, and it'd be good to get another ltsp upload in before i have another week where i don't know if i'll be able to get to it
17:42
<alkisg>
Cool, will do
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20:40
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i'm wondering if we shouldn't kill off all the /lib/udev/rules.d/*persistant* stuff
20:40
persistent
20:41
<alkisg>
vagrantc: /lib or /etc?
20:41
/etc/udev/rules.d/
20:43
$ grep rules /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.excludes
20:43
etc/udev/rules.d/??-persistent-*.rules
20:43
<vagrantc>
alkisg: /lib/udev/rules.d/ ... handle it like RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES stuff
20:43
<alkisg>
vagrantc: rules in /lib generate files at /etc
20:43
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i was thinking for init-ltsp.d
20:43
<alkisg>
The /etc ones are "persistent", the other ones are just code, afaik
20:43
<vagrantc>
right
20:44
<alkisg>
So, if one plugs some usb device on a client, then unplugs it, and then again plugs it, we want it to have the same name, no?
20:44
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yes, but it's a waste of time to set a persistant address for the network interfaces, at least...
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20:44
<vagrantc>
buut i suppose persistant disk ids makes sense
20:44
might not be worth the bother
20:45
<alkisg>
Using init-ltsp.d to clean up "etc/udev/rules.d/??-persistent-*.rules" for NFS chroots would make sense though
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20:46
<vagrantc>
those wouldn't typically get generated anyways
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20:46
<vagrantc>
i was only figuring to avoid generating tthem in the first place, but i wasn't thinking about some persistant issues
20:47
or just kill *persistent-net*
20:47
<alkisg>
One use case is export the chroot with NFS, rw, to a special "template" client, for easier management (e.g. proprietary drivers installation)
20:48
If the chroot was booted that way, the udev rules would generate persistent files
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