IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 19 May 2012   (all times are UTC)

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00:52
<vagrantc>
well, NBD in sid appears completely broken.
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01:12
<vagrantc>
NBD works just often enough for me to think i'm going crazy
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03:11
<vagrantc>
do other distros have /run/sendsigs.omit.d/ or /var/run/sendsigs.omit.d/ or /lib/init/rw/sendsigs.omit.d ? i know it's there on Debian and Ubuntu ... others?
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03:55
<alkisg>
Hmmm we also have to do a bit of work in ltsp-docs
03:56
<vagrantc>
indeed!
03:57
<alkisg>
ltsp-config would go in /usr/sbin, so it would need a man page, right?
03:57
<vagrantc>
although doc updates are usually less restrictive
03:57
a man page would be good, yes.
03:57
alkisg: so the latest version of NBD in sid broke nbd-client :(
03:58
alkisg: spent much of the day fighting with that
03:58
<alkisg>
Broke it in what way?
03:58
initramfs script?
03:58
<vagrantc>
nbd-client wouldn't connect
03:58
<alkisg>
Ouch
03:59
Did you locate the bug?
03:59
<vagrantc>
no, but i filed one
03:59
http://bugs.debian.org/673497
03:59
<alkisg>
So it won't connect even when the command line is given manually ?
03:59* alkisg checks...
03:59
<vagrantc>
well, two actually, but the other had a patch.
04:00
both release-critical, though... *sigh*
04:00
<alkisg>
Btw you don't mind about the [/opt/ltsp/i386] vs [:ltsp_i386] change, right?
04:02
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it seems a shame to have made so many changes that precise and wheezy will be so different.
04:02
<alkisg>
True about that :(
04:02
We should either have started all the rapid ltsp changes in ...september, or, well, next september
04:02
<vagrantc>
we really should've restructured the source tree earlier ... now nearly all patches will have to be applied manually, if anything comes up
04:02
<alkisg>
But then Gadi started all the changes and we had to finish them
04:03
<vagrantc>
i'm really happy about the direction it's gone, the timing was just kind of crazy
04:04Parker955 is now known as Parker955_Away
04:04* vagrantc schemes to make --vendor Ubuntu work
04:04
<vagrantc>
on Debian, and vice-versa.
04:04
<alkisg>
I'll try to make the opposite work too
04:05
I think I'm really going to offer a debian-chroot package for greek schools with only thin clients
04:05
apt-get install, doe
04:05
*done
04:05
<vagrantc>
a prebuilt image?
04:05
<alkisg>
Yeah, and we'll update it on every kernel update
04:05
They don't care much about security
04:06
<vagrantc>
would definitely be easy.
04:06
alkisg: you could even automate updates ...
04:12
<alkisg>
Hmmm and if ltsp-build-client was called from the package itself, it would also be a good test suite :)
04:14
<vagrantc>
alkisg: you mean a package that gets pushed to debian?
04:14
alkisg: er, ubuntu?
04:15
alkisg: gotta say, ltsp-update-kernels pulling from the NBD image nearly drove me insane troubleshooting NBD problems today.
04:15
<alkisg>
vagrantc: it'd be nice, but it doesn't have to be in debian/ubuntu, if it's automated and runs on some server it's good enough for me
04:15
<vagrantc>
it was really difficult to remember exactly what order to pull stuff from
04:16
alkisg: yeah, i don't think you'd see that sort of thing hitting Debian or Ubuntu for that matter.
04:16
<alkisg>
I think opensuse offers such a thing
04:16
Edubuntu does too in the live dvd
04:17
<vagrantc>
i guess a live image isn't really any different
04:17
i actually have a server i could run an automated build on to make it happen.
04:18
hmmm.
04:18
<alkisg>
I have a server with a debian repository to upload the result :)
04:18
<vagrantc>
i could host it and you could just mirror or something
04:19
<alkisg>
I'd love that. Just also put nbd support in the image and epoptes-client :D
04:19
<vagrantc>
this sounds like an interesting project once i resolve the issues
04:20
catch up with all my packaging before the freeze hits, that is
04:20
<alkisg>
I hope stgraber uploads packaging soon too so that I can test more properly
04:23
Eh we didn't take care of sendsig problems? :-/
04:26
<vagrantc>
you mean through something other than init-ltsp.d ?
04:27
the init-ltsp.d/50-sendsigs only created the files if /run/sendsigs.omit.d (etc.) existed, but at least on debian, none of the dirs were created.
04:28
i think my patch should fix it.
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04:46
<alkisg>
True for ubuntu too
04:48
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i see to recall y'all having done some other trickery to prevent nbd-client/nbd-proxy from being killed?
04:48
<alkisg>
I don't think so, only the sendsigs
04:52
<vagrantc>
usually i didn't notice it crashing ... but it did sometimes
04:52
<alkisg>
I think I rarely saw it crashing too
04:53
Now if only `bzr pull` decided to start working again instead of just blocking there with no error messages....
04:56
<vagrantc>
ouch
05:05
<alkisg>
OK I enabled -e for server scripts, I think we rely on it being set in many cases
05:05
<vagrantc>
the two i know of set it themselves
05:06
ltsp-build-client and ltsp-update-image
05:08
<alkisg>
ltsp-update-image did set it some time ago, but I removed it some days back since it was set by ltsp-common-functions
05:08
I think I removed it from some other tool too for the same reason but not sure which
05:08
<vagrantc>
someone un-removed it
05:09
<alkisg>
You mean in the trap cleanup function?
05:09
<vagrantc>
right, i see it now.
05:09
<alkisg>
Anyway it shouldn't be there anymore, not even in the function, if you pull
05:10
<vagrantc>
alkisg: oh, i've been testing with a 64MB ram client
05:10
works fine still.
05:11
<alkisg>
In Ubuntu I have to remove plymouth from the initramfs in order to allow the kernel to uncompress it in 64 MB RAM :(
05:11
That's why I'd like a "debian-thin-chroot" package and not an Ubuntu one ;)
05:11* vagrantc wonders how nbd-server handles multiple /etc/nbd-server/conf.d/*.conf files with the same [name]
05:11
<alkisg>
I think it prevents it from loading, if i remember well
05:12
<vagrantc>
should be easy to find out.
05:13
do the ubuntu mirrors generally carry DIST, DIST-updates and DIST-security?
05:14
all on the same mirror?
05:15
looks to be the case.
05:15
<alkisg>
http://paste.debian.net/170082/
05:15
<vagrantc>
maybe the default for SECURITY_MIRROR and UPDATES_MIRROR should be the same server ad MIRROR ?
05:16
<alkisg>
No idea about mirrors, would need to take some time to look into what each of those mean
05:16
<vagrantc>
then simply setting mirror would set all the values.
05:17
alkisg: in the ltsp-build-client plugin, there's a different default value for each
05:17
seems like it could just default to the same, if not specified on the commandline.
05:18
<alkisg>
SECURITY_MIRROR=${SECURITY_MIRROR:-"http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu"}
05:18
I didn't know about security.ubuntu.com...
05:21* vagrantc is trying the Ubuntu chroot on Debian host
05:21
<alkisg>
What commandline are you using?
05:21
<vagrantc>
alkisg: have to hard-code vendor due, but other than that ...
05:22
<alkisg>
We could have VENDOR=${VENDOR:-...} in the code to avoid that
05:22
On in some .conf file
05:22
<vagrantc>
alkisg: ltsp-build-client --mirror ... --dist precise --arch i386 --accept-unsigned-packages
05:23
really want to pass it as a commandline argument ...
05:23
as the use-case might likely involve multiple chroots ... but the commandline prrocessing happens later.
05:24
so we could handle --vendor manually ...
05:24
<alkisg>
vagrantc: why commandline? If it's something rare, I'd prefer to specify it in the environment as VENDOR=xxx ltsp-build-client...
05:24
Otherwise we get a lot of parameters to document and maintain :(
05:25
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i hate the hoops to pass variables with sudo
05:25
i mean, it's doable ... but ugh.
05:25
<alkisg>
Why would that affect anything though?
05:25
<vagrantc>
VENDOR=foo sudo ltsp-build-client ... helpfully cleans the variable
05:26
sudo VENDOR=foo ltsp-build-client ... gives VENDOR=foo command not found ... no?
05:26
<alkisg>
sudo VENDOR=foo ltsp-build-client
05:26
<vagrantc>
that works now?
05:26
<alkisg>
sudo [-AbEHnPS] [-C fd] [-D level] [-g group name|#gid] [-p prompt] [-u user name|#uid] [VAR=value] [-i | -s] [command]
05:26
...[VAR=value]
05:26* vagrantc was pretty sure that hasn't always worked...
05:27
<alkisg>
It's documented in hardy... http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/hardy/en/man8/sudo.8.html
05:27
No idea about before
05:27
<vagrantc>
fair enough
05:28
<alkisg>
Ah, it's not in dapper :) http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/dapper/en/man8/sudo.8.html
05:35
<vagrantc>
7-8 years without it is long enough to just assume it doesn't work :)
05:35
till some youngin comes along with all these new featuresa
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06:03
<vagrantc>
well, apparently it failed on the first attempt to call add_mirrors
06:03
<Hyperbyte>
Hi vagrantc! :-)
06:05* vagrantc waves
06:10* vagrantc attempts monstrous hybrids another day.
06:17
<VectorX>
will this work good ?, i7-2600k, 16gb ram, win7 64 ultimate host, : i was thinking of installing the ltsp server in a vbox with about 8gb of ram and direct acces to the processor, and have win-xp also in another vbox for rdp with 8gb of ram assigned to it ?
06:24
<muppis>
You're killing the host with that.
06:24
<VectorX>
what do you mean ?
06:25
<muppis>
Doesn't leave any ram for it.
06:25
<VectorX>
somehow the movie alien comes to mind with that comment
06:25
<muppis>
And 32 bit xp doesn't handle mode than 3 GB of ram.
06:26
<VectorX>
ok so if i made it 2.8 or 3gb and installed 32bit xp, i should be ok ?
06:26
<muppis>
Better at least.
06:26
<VectorX>
also would i really need 8gb for the ltsp ?
06:27
<muppis>
If using only for rdp session, no.
06:28
<VectorX>
well ubuntu will also be used for stuff like gimp and development apps mainly eclipse
06:28
how would you configure this
06:28
<muppis>
Is win 7 used anything but run those vboxes?
06:29
<VectorX>
yeah, i was planning on using it for my work so photosop cs5, eclipse, dreamweaver etc, electricity got really expensive and im trying to cut down on the machine id be using
06:29
hehe
06:30
hence this particular setup
06:30
i could probably up the ram to 24 or 32
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06:30
<VectorX>
for the machine
06:31
<muppis>
With 16 GB of ram I would assing 4 for ltsp, 2 for xp and rest for 7.
06:33
<VectorX>
also with 2 for xp, say if like 10 people connect to rdp, would there performance be affected for the xp users ?
06:33
s/there/their/
06:34
say if everyone decides to load up PS and dreamweaver at the same time
06:34
<muppis>
Yes, but then you need 64 bit xp to get more ram for it.
06:34
<VectorX>
yeah i can do that
06:35
how would i need to configure xp to accomodate that load
06:35
hdd is a ssd so i think things will be ok there
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06:36
<VectorX>
or rather is there some general config rule of thumb for this i can follow
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06:38
<muppis>
Just thinking what used software can eat up the resources so would your hardware (ram, cpu, hdd) survive from that.
06:39
With PS and Dreamweaver I think cpu usage can be more issue than ram.
06:41
<VectorX>
ok, ill look into it
06:42
also is there some setup config case scenarios, like hardware used and os's etc, i read some of the success stories but not very detailed
06:42
<muppis>
And keep in mind that running in vbox is always slower than real hardware.
06:45
<VectorX>
ok ill try to get this setup and come back, thanks for the information muppis
06:45
<muppis>
I started to think about that xp.. Do you really need that? I mean, can you give a rdp connections to win 7?
06:46
If you can. you're getting much better performance for everyone.
06:46
<VectorX>
i think there is a issue with licence and win7, where you can only have 1 connection, xp does not have such clause in its agreement ;)
06:46
<muppis>
That came my mind also. :)
06:48
But what itches me is there is one of those Windowses too much in this scenario. If you can, get rid of it, no matter which one.
06:50
Because both of those is going to be under heavy use, it can come pain for everyone.
06:51
Which distro you had in mind for ltsp?
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07:00
<VectorX>
muppis what distro do you recomend, i was going to go with ubuntu
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07:04
<muppis>
Ubuntu is fine. I was thinking scenario to put Ubuntu as host and both Windowses to kvm or vbox based virtuals. If you only user of win 7 and do it locally, you hardly notice any usability issue in graphic when using local rdp.
07:04
I used it that way for a while.
07:06
<VectorX>
yeah but since ltsp will just be booting, it should be fine as guest right
07:07
<muppis>
Yes, sure.
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17:34
<vagrantc>
!seen alkisg
17:34
<ltsp`>
vagrantc: alkisg was last seen in #ltsp 12 hours, 6 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <alkisg> Ah, it's not in dapper :) http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/dapper/en/man8/sudo.8.html
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18:48
<alkisg>
vagrantc: so, got any specs for ltsp-chroot?
18:48
ltsp-chroot [--swap] nbd | dnsmasq | isc-dhcp? | ???
18:48
Maybe some options about --proxy in dnsmasq...
18:49
Maybe an nfs parameter too...
18:49
In general though, I think it should be ltsp-chroot [option] tool
18:49
ltsp-config
18:49
Damn
18:49
All those were about ltsp-confi
18:49
g
18:53
<vagrantc>
alkisg: oh, i had a question ... can dnsmasq be configured to do proxydhcp on port 4011, like the PXE spec suggests it should?
18:53
<alkisg>
vagrantc: it's not 1 port, it's 2 ports
18:54
It's both the 67 dhcp port and 4011
18:54
But that's only for the second part of the pxe request, the advanced one
18:54
And dnsmasq doesn't do that part, but in any case 4011 wouldn't be enough
18:54
<vagrantc>
the PXE specs claim that you should be able to run the proxydhcp on the same sever with a separate dhcp server
18:54
hmmm...
18:55
<alkisg>
At least that's what I think I remember from what I read in the dnsmasq ML some years ago, so they're not very trustworthy
18:55
<vagrantc>
anyways, ltsp-config ...
18:56
ltsp-config should be able to: enable /etc/nbd-server/conf.d/*.conf (and if needed, /etc/nbd-server/config)
18:57
it should be able to configure swap independently ... i might just drop a conffile for swap configuration
18:57
so it should be able to detect if swap is already configured?
18:58
it should be able to configured NFS exports
18:58
<alkisg>
Well, if nbd-server/config and conf.d/swap.conf are there... swap should be already configured
18:58
<vagrantc>
it should be able to configure dnsmasq for tftp and DHCP independently of one another?
18:59
<alkisg>
Sure, e.g. ltsp-config --no-tftp dnsmasq ?
18:59
<vagrantc>
ltsp-config --service=dnsmasq --options=tftp,dhcp ?
18:59
<alkisg>
Or it could check for common tftp servers and autodetect what's best to do
18:59
I was thinking more like the bzr command line
18:59
One command, many options
18:59
<vagrantc>
ah.
19:00
should it also be able to configure DHCP ?
19:00
<Hyperbyte>
Hey alkisg!
19:00
<alkisg>
Hi Hyperbyte
19:00
<vagrantc>
er, isc-dhcpd?
19:00
<Hyperbyte>
I got my system working nicely with 12.04. :)
19:00
<alkisg>
vagrantc: sure, at least copy the example and set the subnet
19:00
Hyperbyte: cool!
19:01
<Hyperbyte>
I had lots of numerous strange issues with the new Gnome 3 fallback
19:01
Keyboard shortcuts not working, not being saved, themes displaying with strange layouts/looks
19:01
<vagrantc>
alkisg: on debian, it would be nice if it could just add an include= line to /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf that points to a file we manage
19:01
<Hyperbyte>
Basically, this was because I didn't nuke the previous gnome2 config properly from the home dirs. So this is good to keep in mind.
19:02
<vagrantc>
Hyperbyte: no way, gnome3 behaving wonky? :P
19:02
<Hyperbyte>
After I did that, gnome3 fallback behaved properly. I actually like the dconf configuration system.
19:02
<vagrantc>
alkisg: would it also be more like: ltsp-config <command> [--opt1|--opt2] ?
19:02* alkisg doesn't see any real different from gconf
19:03
<alkisg>
vagrantc: if we use getopt, the options can go either before or after the command
19:03
<vagrantc>
d sorts before g in the romanized alphabet
19:03
<Hyperbyte>
I prefer the multiple profiles overlaying eachother, and also prefer the ini-style configuration over xml.
19:03
<alkisg>
...that has to be a significant speed improvement :P
19:03
<vagrantc>
alkisg: crazy ordering.
19:03
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: ini-style? isn't dconf binary?
19:04
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, yes and no. It creates a binary database from ini-style config.
19:04
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: from where? Maybe you're talking about the gconf imports?
19:04
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so my ltsp-build-client with VENDOR=Ubuntu failed ... for some reason i can't understand, it ended up failing with the add_mirrors function missing.
19:05
<Hyperbyte>
Try 'dconf dump /' next time you're on Gnome 3, it will dump the entire database in ini-style. Which you can then put in /etc/dconf/db/profile.d directories, to make mandatory settings. Much easier than with Gnome3 and gconftool.
19:05
<vagrantc>
but ubuntu uses the same add_mirrors function that debian uses.
19:05
Hyperbyte: that does actually sound like an improvement.
19:05
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: do those work in Ubuntu too? I thought they didn't...
19:05
(the dirs don't exist by default)
19:05
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, no, you have to create the dirs.
19:05
But they work fine.
19:06
<alkisg>
Ah OK last time I tried they didn't work at all
19:06
That sounds cool then
19:06
<Hyperbyte>
Basically, all my problems with Gnome3 went away when I properly nuked -all- gnome2 config that was leftover in the home dirs.
19:06
I suspect lots of people who are trying to upgrade, or use existing home filesystems run into the same problems.
19:06
<alkisg>
!learn lock-gnome3 as Try 'dconf dump /' next time you're on Gnome 3, it will dump the entire database in ini-style. Which you can then put in /etc/dconf/db/profile.d directories, to make mandatory settings. Much easier than with Gnome2 and gconftool.
19:06
<ltsp`>
alkisg: The operation succeeded.
19:07
<alkisg>
bbiab
19:07
<Hyperbyte>
I had one big issue with Gnome3 after I did ^^ that, which was that on dual view, the left/right screens were swapped after login. Very strange.
19:07
So in LDM screen on the left had left part of the login window, on the right it had right part of the login window.
19:08
I fixed that with an xrandr command in /etc/xdg/autostart.. doing it from lts.conf didn't seem to work properly... it either messed up things further, didn't work, or froze clients.
19:09
(I meant to add that after login in LDM left screen had right part, and right screen had left part)
19:09
I actually configured the displays as mirror view from lts.conf now, so login screen doesn't stretch across displays, and then from /etc/xdg/autostart it's set as proper dualview. I find this quite elegant.
19:10
Thought it might be useful info to share here though.
19:14
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: .config/monitors.xml
19:14
It's where gnome monitor settings are saved
19:15
Maybe you just needed to delete that file
19:15
Otherwise, there should be no difference between before + after login
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19:37
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, I had to nuke the entire .config dir
19:37
For Gnome3 to work properly.
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20:58
<vagrantc>
ltsp-config alkisg --howdy
20:58* vagrantc wonders if ltsp-config is an old LTSP 4.x thing
21:00
<vagrantc>
ah yes, ltspconfig
21:01
<alkisg>
:)
21:02
Haha it even had a GUI
21:03
<vagrantc>
nbd bugs got uploaded to sid already :)
21:03
er, fixes
21:03
<alkisg>
Good work Wouter!
21:03
ltsp-config lts.conf too
21:04
<vagrantc>
ah yes.
21:05
ltsp-config ltsp-config --waka-waka
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21:54
<vagrantc>
NBD_ROOT_NAME appears to be getting set to the device name...
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21:54
<vagrantc>
ah, maybe it assumed the order of commandline options.
21:57
yup. not specifying nbdroot= at the boot prompt results in NBD_ROOT_NAME being set incorrectly.
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23:36
<t0d>
I have a 64bit thin client server (Ubuntu 12.04) working quite nicely, I was hoping to convert to a fat client. Not sure where to start, any tips, links? thanks :)
23:46
fat client server, that is.
23:47
<stgraber>
t0d: I haven't tried fat clients in a while and our usual expert (alkisg) isn't around at the moment, though I believe creating a new chroot using --fat-client (or similar option name) is all you need for a start
23:48
<vagrantc>
or adding the packages to your existing chroot
23:49
<stgraber>
right, assuming we now have an easy way of figuring which packages to add (I doubt it's as simple as just installing ubuntu-desktop)
23:49
<t0d>
Ahh, i see. I have seen many references to alkisg on the net regarding ltsp.
23:49
<vagrantc>
there's good reason for that
23:52
<t0d>
I had a crash course in ltsp last night, it went quite smoothly, and I wasn't very coherent. Got a working production setup served by Proxmox in very little time.
23:54
I did the single nic setup, with dnsmasq and such. I plan to be (more) sober next time.
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23:55
<t0d>
stgraber: --fat-client, great place to start, thanks!