IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 18 May 2012   (all times are UTC)

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00:08
<vagrantc>
ok, so now it's time for me to ask for help ... i tried logging into a newly installed ubuntu 10.04 server, and the user sucessfully logged in, i hear remote sound, and then it's back to LDM ...
00:08
likely a compiz issue?
00:08
!compiz
00:08
<ltsp`>
vagrantc: compiz: the default window manager in gnome is gnome-wm, which automatically chooses compiz if it thinks that the card supports it. Compiz is causing login problems to some clients (LP #673072). To disable it, see !disable_compiz. To restore it, see !restore_compiz
00:09
<vagrantc>
aah yes, compiz.
00:09
!disable_compiz
00:09
<ltsp`>
vagrantc: disable_compiz: To disable compiz for all users, run: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
00:14
<vagrantc>
yay.
00:14
that you ltsp` bot
00:15
thank you ltsp` bot
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07:41
<Hyperbyte>
I have some big problems with 12.04
07:41
With the LTSP Term 1720
07:41
I've had some issues with the Intel onboard graphics and dual monitor setup on 11.04 as well
07:41
What it does now, is show LDM properly
07:42
But as soon as a user logs in, the screens are reversed
07:42
So during login left DVI screen is left, right VGA screen is right
07:42
And after login the right screen becomes left and left screen becomes right
07:42
It can be fixed with xrandr --output VGA1 --right-of DVI1
07:43
So I thought I'd fix it with XRANDR_OUTPUT_1="VGA1 --right-of DVI1" in lts.conf
07:43
But then the machines hang after login
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09:41
<pod2>
hi, having problems with local printers on a debian server...
09:42
if I add the line PRINTER_0_DEVICE = /dev/lp0 to lts.conf - the client fails to boot at all
09:42
as far as I can tell that's still the correct way to do it
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10:08
<bauerski>
pod2: You are not alone. I have the same problem. But ...
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10:44
<pod2>
if I add the line PRINTER_0_DEVICE = /dev/lp0 to lts.conf - the client fails to boot at all
10:44
is that still the correct way to add a local printer? (on debian)
10:49
<alkisg>
pod2: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/996533
10:52
<pod2>
aha, that sounds promising. I'll read some more and try some things out. Thanks!
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13:01
<Hyperbyte>
Could anyone shed some light on why my gnome3 fallback keybindings in dconf don't correspond with the gnome system settings? http://local.setreizen.zonenzorg.nl/dconf-keybindings.png
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13:53
<Hyperbyte>
I figured it out! It was due to some .gconf directory still roaming around in the profile, throwing flies into my gnome fallback soup. :(
13:54
I have one more question. Last time alkisg did this wonderfully for me. I forgot to remember how though. How do I change the default locale in my chroot?
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15:06
<zamba>
installing ltsp on 12.04 is working just fine?
15:06
just install 12.04 and then the package ltsp-server, right?
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15:24
<markit>
hi ppl, if I have to serve a second class, and I've a server with 2xGbit nic bonded going to the first switch, if I connect the second switch with the first one with 2 cables, will I have almost the same band I have in the first switch?
15:24
I mean, are there obscure issues that prevent this setup to work fine?
15:25
<vagrantc>
chaining the switch?
15:28
<markit>
vagrantc: yes
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15:29
<markit>
ltsp server - switch1 - media converter rj45 to optic fiber ----------- media converter - switch class2 and clients
15:30
but instead of a single gbit connection, I would like to use 4 media converter and push 2xgbit
15:30
<vagrantc>
it should basically work, although the clients on the second switch might be slightly limited in bandwidth, but not unreasonably so ... presuming the switch handles bonding well.
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15:47
<||cw>
yeah it's all going to depends on how the switch handles bonding
15:48
with many connections most all switches will balance somewhat if it's trunked correctly. but no single client will get >1Gbps, and it's rarely smart enough to prevent multiple clients from all being stuck on one link
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16:36
<vagrantc>
stgraber: it seems like a lot of the ubuntu ltsp dependencies really belong in their corresponding ldm packages
16:36
stgraber: in ubuntu
16:38
<stgraber>
vagrantc: yeah, I'll need to review these and move them to the right place, I know I have way too many things as depends of ltsp-client/ltsp-client-core at the moment
16:39* vagrantc is applying alkisg's suggestions right now
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16:51
<markit>
||cw: I see, since the media converter cost around 100 euros each, would love not to buy 4 instead of 2 and have no advantages... maybe I could try some test with bound done in copper and some clients
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17:11* vagrantc just killed support for sparc, obscure mips architectures, non-existant arm machines, and alpha in update-kernels
17:11
<vagrantc>
it was about time.
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17:19
<ogra_>
but but ... your backwards compatibility !
17:19
:)
17:19
<vagrantc>
:)
17:21
we've got to redesign it anyways, and i think it would be better to modularize so that if someone did have a particular need, they could add support more easily.
17:21
<ogra_>
modularization ++
17:21
<vagrantc>
so it will be easier to redesign with less code to look at
17:22
i think keeping it one big script was largely leftovers from what it was an architecture independent package.
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17:31
<vagrantc>
i must admit, i'm slightly nostalgic for the alpha/aboot code... despite that getting it to work resulted in my bike getting stolen.
17:32
probably the most exciting kernel panic i've ever seen, because it meant i actually managed to get the kernel to boot.
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17:40
<vagrantc>
huh. an arm-based thin client that claims to be PXE compatible?
17:40
hp's t410 ?
17:58
<stgraber>
it's perfectly possible, uboot supports pxe nowadays
17:59
just surprising for HP to allow it ;)
18:02
<vagrantc>
sure
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18:40
<rohitj>
vagrantc: Here is the terminal output : http://dpaste.org/7hBcu/
18:40
<vagrantc>
hah
18:41
:)
18:42
<rohitj>
I saw some errors with locale. I wonder if thats the culprit.
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18:42
<vagrantc>
rohitj: the issue is :
18:42
Aborting installation.
18:42
The ltsp-client-core package provides the basic structure for an LTSP
18:42
terminal. It cannot be installed on a regular machine.
18:43
which means for some reason /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp_chroot isn't being created?
18:43
rohitj: what version of ltsp-server is installed?
18:44
(we've recently dropped support for the /etc/ltsp_chroot file)
18:44
<rohitj>
vagrantc: 5.3.7
18:45
<vagrantc>
ah, you're running ubuntu 12.04 ?
18:45
<rohitj>
oh yeah, I forgot to mention that... I upgraded to 12.04 recently
18:45
Sorry about that... I was using 11.10 when I posted the query in the start
18:47
Should I downgrade to 11.10?
18:48
<vagrantc>
rohitj: i *think* you'll just need one more file ...
18:48
maybe.
18:48
i need to support that in the older version...
18:48
<rohitj>
(I don't see /opt/ltsp/i386/ltsp_chroot , so I guess it is not being created)
18:49
<vagrantc>
yes, it was removed from ltsp-build-client plugins, you just need to add the plugin back.
18:49
rohitj: you'll need to drop a file in /etc/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/010-chroot-tagging
18:50* vagrantc looks for the URL
18:50
<rohitj>
what do you mean by older version?
18:52
<vagrantc>
https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/download/2146/010chroottagging-20060629011819-771008f73683b025/010-chroot-tagging
18:52
rohitj: the older version of ltsp in debian squeeze requires the ltsp_chroot file to be present, newer versions don't.
18:53
<rohitj>
Oh I see
18:53
<vagrantc>
so download that file and install into /etc/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/010-chroot-tagging
18:53* vagrantc will put some backwards compatibility into the next ltsp upload to debian
18:54
<rohitj>
just to make sure, you mean s/install into/copy into/ ?
18:54
there is no folder /etc/ltsp/plugins, so I guess I will create that too
18:56
<vagrantc>
yes, create the dir and put the file in there...
18:58
<rohitj>
Starting build client now. Thanks. I will get back once the process finishes.
18:58
<vagrantc>
we made a lot of changes in ltsp 5.3.7 and so it needs some work to be able to install older versions.
18:59
but hopefully not too much work.
18:59
<rohitj>
I see
18:59
<vagrantc>
thanks for reminding me on that
19:00
<rohitj>
haha. Thanks a lot for help.
19:06
<vagrantc>
rohitj: getting any farther this time?
19:06
<rohitj>
its still building. Fetching all the packages.
19:06
vagrantc: ^
19:09
<vagrantc>
rohitj: might want to explore using a caching proxy such as approx, apt-cacher, apt-cacher-ng or maybe even debtorrent
19:10
<rohitj>
Good idea. I should do that.
19:12
<zamba>
how can i set the default X session for all users?
19:12
i want it to be gnome classic
19:13
(no, the user shouldn't be allowed to choose=
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19:25
<rohitj>
vagrantc: Installation finished. :) .. Time to check if I can boot a thin client now
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19:31* rohitj restarts computer
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19:31
<vagrantc>
zamba: what distro/version are you using?
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19:33
<zamba>
vagrantc: 12.04
19:33
of ubuntu
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19:38
<vagrantc>
zamba: maybe setting in lts.conf: LDM_SESSION="gnome-session --session=gnome-fallback"
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19:56
<rohitj>
vagrantc: So, I was able to build the client. However, when I try to start the thin client I get error saying "read: connection refused"
19:56
it seemed that nbd config file was missing, so I dpkg-configured it., But I still get the error
19:57
this is my nbd config : http://dpaste.org/UMOT8/
19:57
<vagrantc>
rohitj: debian defaults to NFS
19:58
and the way NBD is implemented in 12.04 is incompatible with the way it's handled in debian
19:58
although you might be able to manually configure NBD support.
19:58
<rohitj>
Argh!
19:59
you mean nbd support in debian chroot?
19:59
<vagrantc>
rohitj: you're dealing with two major differences ... debian defaults to NFS instead of ubuntu, and the newer versions of LTSP handle NBD pretty differently
20:00
<rohitj>
Ok
20:00
<vagrantc>
any other combination would've probably been less painful, but 12.04 released a pretty major new LTSP version.
20:00
rohitj: so at this point ... why debian on an ubuntu server?
20:01
<rohitj>
Some of the thin clients that I have don't have cmov support.
20:01
<vagrantc>
although it shouldn't be too hard to set up NFS ...
20:01
ah yes.
20:01
rohitj: probably the easiest thing is to set it up to use NFS.
20:02
<rohitj>
Any pointers to do that?
20:02
<vagrantc>
rohitj: apt-get install nfs-kernel-server
20:03
echo '/opt/ltsp/ *(ro,no_root_squash,async,no_subtree_check)' >> /etc/exports.d/ltsp.exports
20:03
edit /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf:
20:05
or rather...
20:05
echo 'BOOTPROMPT_OPTS="quiet root=/dev/nfs ip=dhcp boot=nfs"' > /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf
20:05
ltsp-chroot /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels
20:05
<rohitj>
(there is no directory /etc/exports.d , should I create it? )
20:05
<vagrantc>
ltsp-update-kernels
20:06
yes, create any missing directories
20:06
... presuming the version of nfs-kernel-server on Ubuntu supports /etc/exports.d ... otherwise just append the line to /etc/exports.
20:08
<rohitj>
wuuhuu!! thin client is starting
20:13
<vagrantc>
rohitj: so, on older versions, running ltsp-update-image would break NFS ... in theory, the version you have might be fine ... i don't remember.
20:13
<rohitj>
It seems to work. I could start thin client
20:14
<vagrantc>
right, but if you run ltsp-update-image again, it may break it.
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20:14
<rohitj>
oh
20:17
<vagrantc>
but it might be fine.
20:17
<rohitj>
Do you think that I should use ubuntu 11.10 for deployment time?
20:17
<vagrantc>
depends on what you need
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20:19
<rohitj>
well, I was more inclined towards 12.04 since its LTS. Otherwise, it doesn't really matter.
20:20
<vagrantc>
rohitj: 12.04 is the version with an ltsp-update-image least likely to break your current setup, and you can disable it by creating /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.conf that stops it from running.
20:20
<rohitj>
the newer version of LTSP wouldnt reach squeeze anytime soon, right?
20:21
<vagrantc>
i'll try and get a backport to backports.debian.org, but there are a number of other things i need to do first.
20:21
it needs a newer version of debootstrap and nbd-client
20:21
<rohitj>
Ok
20:22
<vagrantc>
but those hopefully shouldn't be too hard to do.
20:22
<rohitj>
Ok
20:24
I think I am going to play with this setup for sometime, and then see what I should do. I am not expecting to do much changes in the deployed system, so hopefully these hacks will be a one time things.
20:25
<vagrantc>
rohitj: run ltsp-update-image and see if it breaks your setup.
20:25
if it doesn't then you're good. :)
20:26
<rohitj>
Ok
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20:31
<rohitj>
vagrantc: it broke
20:32
its showing the initramfs shell
20:36
ok, I think I am going to note down all the steps I took to get 12.04 to work, and then switch back to 11.10.
20:36
And then once debian has newer version of ltsp, consider 12.04 again.
20:44
<vagrantc>
rohitj: older versions of ubuntu will have that same problem.
20:45
rohitj: you just need to create an /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.conf with "exit 0"
20:45
rohitj: you're going to have most, if not all of the same problems.
20:46
<alkisg>
Just wondering, why the cross-distro stuff? Non 686-compatible clients?
20:51
<vagrantc>
alkisg: hey, when did you sneak in? :)
20:51
alkisg: yeah, ones without "cmov"
20:51* alkisg has drank an invisibility potion when he was a level 2 dev
20:52
<alkisg>
So, one more for the "apt-get install debian-chroot" package I want to develop :P
20:54
<vagrantc>
interesting idea... :)
20:55
alkisg: so, i merged your changes to ltsp's debian/control
20:55
alkisg: were there other changes that seemed mergeable?
20:56
<alkisg>
vagrantc: stgraber plans to remove ltsp-live from the packaging, so that should help a bit
20:56
If you guys want, we could write a good debian/rules and have 1 unified package
20:57
(or 1 makefile or something)
20:57
stgraber: if you publish the changes in debian/ somewhere, I'd like to test if everything works with the current trunk... please ping me when you have something
20:59
<vagrantc>
alkisg: what's still on our TODO list? i'm getting nervous about getting it uploaded to debian with enough time for testing ...
21:00
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I think the ltsp-chroot tool is the only part missing
21:00
Which isn't really a requirement, just a "nice to have" thing
21:00
<vagrantc>
i couldn't figure out how to switch from NBD to NFS without manual intervention with ltsp-trunk
21:00
not being able to support NBD seems like a blocker for me.
21:01
<alkisg>
From NBD to NFS? Not the other way around?
21:01
<vagrantc>
either way
21:01
it just gets the default, and doesn't respect changes in update-kernels.conf
21:01
<alkisg>
Anyway for both cases one would have to manually define a command line in $chroot/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf
21:01
It doesn't?
21:02
<vagrantc>
i don't understand why, but last i checked, it ignored update-kernels.conf
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21:04
<vagrantc>
maybe i made a stupid typo somewhere...
21:04* vagrantc checks again
21:05
<alkisg>
vagrantc: did you update your chroot ltsp-common-functions?
21:05
The older version didn't source the .conf file
21:06
<vagrantc>
alkisg: innstalled packages built from source
21:06
<alkisg>
vagrantc: it works fine for me, if I set BOOTPROMPT_OPTS in /etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf, it reads it
21:06
Try sh -x /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels
21:06* vagrantc will check again
21:07
<vagrantc>
i put my test chroots in tmpfs, so they get wiped out when i reboot :)
21:08
<alkisg>
So the main difference from before is that there's no "ltsp-update-image --options --skip-image" method to put the bootprompts in update-kernels.conf. I think it was too complicated and it didn't belong in ltsp-update-image anyway...
21:08
<vagrantc>
sure
21:08
hence ltsp-config
21:08
<alkisg>
Yup
21:09
vagrantc: when's the freeze? End of the month?
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21:10
<vagrantc>
i would like to treat it as if it were so :)
21:11
<alkisg>
I think I'll have ltsp-chroot ready until 25th, so other than that, I only have testing
21:11
One part that worries me is the set -e we do at the top of ltsp-common-functions
21:11
It made the ldm script break, and it might make others too
21:11
Maybe we should put it only in the server tools for now
21:12
I.e. move it in ltsp-server-functions instead
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21:12
<vagrantc>
sure
21:17
alkisg: worked this time ... must of been something else wonky. yay.
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21:18
<alkisg>
Cool. :)
21:18
<vagrantc>
oh wait ... it overwrote the image with NFS ...
21:18* vagrantc tries ltsp-update-image again
21:19
<vagrantc>
(the pxelinux configuration got overwritten when running ltsp-update-kernels)
21:19
<alkisg>
ltsp-update-kernels now reads from inside nbd files
21:19
Maybe we should prefer the chroot even if older kernels exist there?
21:19
<vagrantc>
that has the potential to be real hair-pulling confusing ... even though i understand why you'd want to do that :)
21:20
<alkisg>
Also I think the most sane thing to do would be for ltsp-update-kernels to not overwrite pxelinux.cfg/default
21:20
I.e. the user would edit pxelinux.cfg/default in the tftp and it would be preserved
21:20
<vagrantc>
there's some sense to that
21:21
ltsp-update-kernels --overwrite-pxelinx-config :)
21:21
<alkisg>
Or rm the file and call it, but yeah
21:21
It would cause a problem if we weren't using vmlinuz symlinks and had to update the kernel number in pxelinux.cfg/default
21:21
Anyway, more in 2 days. 'night all :)
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21:48
<jon__>
Hi all, first time here. I haven't been able to find the info anywhere, so hopefully you'll be able to help me.
21:49
First thing is that I see in the recent history that people were talking about not overwriting the pxelinux.cfg/default. That would be nice. I "solved" that issue by `chattr +i default`
21:51
But, my real problem is that something is erasing my /etc/init.d/nbd-client (and associated /etc/rc*.d/ links). The files are there before I run ltsp-update-image, and I haven't looked inside the nbd file, but the deletions show up in /cow/etc/init.d/.wh.nbd-client, so I'm guessing they are properly being put into the image, and then something is erasing it early on in the boot process. I haven't looked through the source of /sbin/nbd-c
21:51
Any ideas?
21:52
I realize I haven't given out much information on my setup, but I don't know what is useful. Debian wheezy.
21:52
<vagrantc>
jon__: yeah, it's done at boot tim.
21:52
time.
21:53
you can set a variable to enable any of the removed services if you need to
21:53
<jon__>
Why I care about that file is that it saves the nbd-client PID in the sendsigs.omit.d and since the PID isn't saved, nbd-client is killed during the shutdown, and then everything tanks.
21:53
<vagrantc>
it's a recent change.
21:53
ah, yes. i wondered about that change.
21:54
<jon__>
yes, I know. My system worked a week ago... And now nothing can shut down cleanly. Though I just figured out that if I recopy the nbd-client script back to the thin client, and then run nbd-client start, the shutdown happens cleanly...
21:54
<vagrantc>
jon__: well, i'm working on the next upload as we speak, so i'll see why we really need to delete it ...
21:55
<jon__>
Now that you understand my problem - is your previous comment about setting a variable to re-enable valid, and if so, I'm not sure where I should be looking: lts.conf?
21:55
<vagrantc>
yeah, there's a new lts.conf variable ...
21:55* vagrantc rummages about in the source
21:56
<vagrantc>
jon__: KEEP_SYSTEM_SERVICES
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21:57
<vagrantc>
jon__: so set KEEP_SYSTEM_SERVICES=nbd-client in {/var/lib/tftpboot,/srv/tftp}/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
21:58
jon__: or edit /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf, but you'll have to rebuild the NBD image.
21:58
jon__: or switch back to NFS and you can just edit lts.conf directly
21:58
<jon__>
ok, trying now
21:59
<vagrantc>
we used to write the sensigs.omit.d stuff ourselves ... that might be sane too.
22:00
<jon__>
ah - you are the developers for ltsp, but not for nbd-client, so you were getting rid of it, because it was conflicting with your stuff?
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22:00
<vagrantc>
jon__: to speed up boot time, really. we use nbd at an earlier phase.
22:01
oh, i wonder if it's writing to sendsigs.omit.d before /run is mounted, and then /run gets mounted over it.
22:01
we do have a hook to write those variables ourselves, but maybe it's running too early.
22:02
<jon__>
that's sounds reasonable.
22:02
<vagrantc>
i mean, the sendsigs.omit stuff
22:02
<jon__>
right.
22:03
Setting that variable fixes my issue.
22:03
Thanks.
22:03
<vagrantc>
jon__: if you could file a bug, that would be great
22:03
<jon__>
Sure. What URL?
22:03
<vagrantc>
otherwise i might loose track of it
22:04
jon__: you could use the reportbug tool, or read the stuff here: http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
22:05
jon__: basically, it just amounts to sending an email, but reportbug will walk you through the process ... probably against ltsp-server
22:07
although technically it should be against ltsp-client-core ... but reportbug isn't clever about chroots.
22:07
<jon__>
Ah, ok. I'm not entirely clear on who you are, but reportbug works for me.
22:08
<vagrantc>
jon__: Vagrant Cascadian ... i maintain LTSP in Debian :)
22:08
<jon__>
ah, ok
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22:15
<jon__>
I sent a manual email, since the system in question is behind a firewall, and I haven't configured reportbug on that machine before.
22:15
I have another question that is NBD, rather than LTSP, but I wonder if you have any ideas about it: What I would like to have is for NBD to download the entire image on bootup, so then it wouldn't need the network after that.
22:16
(We had a hard drive die on the master server last week, and all the thin clients died fairly instantly, rather than being okay until the next reboot...)
22:16
We run pseudo thin clients, where the machines are actually really powerful, but use the local disks as data, and so just use LTSP/NBD for a diskless boot.
22:21
<vagrantc>
jon__: you sent to submit@bugs.debian.org ?
22:21
<jon__>
yes
22:21
<vagrantc>
jon__: you probably wouldn't bother with NBD at that point ... you'd just download and loop-mount the image from the initramfs
22:22
<jon__>
but, I haven't gotten the auto-reply, so maybe I messed up the formatting.
22:22
<vagrantc>
which is a mode i've been meaning to explore for quite some time.
22:22
jon__: might take a bit...
22:22
<jon__>
not bothering with nbd - yes, I was wondering about doing it myself. Is there any code/package that is already written to help me with that?
22:22
<vagrantc>
i think debian-live has a mode like that.
22:23
if you're running fatclients with a fair amount of ram and/or local swap disks, it would be a pretty great mode for fatclients.
22:34
<jon__>
yes, I'd wondered about that - I don't remember the reason, but for some reason it didn't look good to me, but now I don't remember.
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23:06
<rohitj>
vagrantc: Sorry I went away... I will keep using 12.04 then. And modify ltsp-update-image.conf accordingly.
23:06
Thanks a lot for your help.
23:07
<vagrantc>
rohitj: i think it's an important use-case to not break older versions, so it's helped me fix some bugs around that issue :)
23:07
<rohitj>
:)
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