IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 27 April 2008   (all times are UTC)

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00:07
<johnny_>
any ubuntu experts about?
00:19
#ubuntu is too full of n00bs ;(
00:19
and this is on my ltsp system :)
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02:57
<Solv>
I'm administering an ltsp server remotely, it has ubuntu 7.10 on it currently. Would it be unwise to perform an upgrade to 8.04 via apt?
03:01
well by apt I mean update-manager
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06:08
<muh2000>
hi
06:09
X_MODE_0 = 1024x768 is not working :(
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06:45
<ogra>
works fine here
06:46
what ltsp release/distro is that
06:46
muh2000, ^^
06:47
<muh2000>
ogra: debian, server lenny, chroot sid/unstable. ltsp5
06:47
<laga>
ogra: did you see xachen's problem last night? he can shut down the server from the clients
06:47
in xfce, that isd
06:47
<ogra>
laga,old bug
06:47
xfce and the xubuntu guys are aware of it since 2 years ....
06:47
nobody did anything about it until today
06:48
<muh2000>
lol ^^
06:48
<laga>
ogra: why does it happen?
06:48
or is there a bug number? i'll go search for it then
06:51
<ogra>
laga, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/65010
06:51
has some workarunds too
06:51
<rjune>
dont' use xfce?
06:52
<ogra>
*sigh* they should just check for LTSP_CLIENT and fixe their menu accordingly with a login script or something
06:53
<rjune>
isn't the normal procedure for the environment to look at DISPLAY and not show shutdown/reboot if it's not local?
06:53
<laga>
fix their menu accordingly?
06:53
sounds scary. what happens if someone executes dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.freedesktop.Hal /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/computer org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.SystemPowerManagement.Shutdown ?
06:53
<ogra>
laga, suppress all power options as well as suspend/resume
06:53
laga, the user is allowed to shut down the server again
06:54
(which polkit prevented before)
06:54
<Q-FUNK>
ouch
06:54
<laga>
ogra: okay, so the problem isn't fixed, it's just that the menu entries are removed?
06:54
<rjune>
hence the use of "work around" instead of "fix"
06:55
<ogra>
you likely need a patch to the menu code that simply ignores all unwanted actions during menu display based on a getenv(LTSP_CLIENT)
06:55
<laga>
Q-FUNK: did you read this http://apachelog.blogspot.com/2008/04/amarok-resolved.html
06:55
<ogra>
thats what we do everywhere else
06:55
<laga>
ogra: but the clients can still shut down the server.
06:55
<ogra>
if they can sudo from a commandline, yes
06:56
<laga>
ah, they need sudo? so talking to HAL isn't enough?
06:56
<ogra>
if there is no shutdown option in the menu they wont be able to shut down anything without sudo
06:56
<laga>
ogra: and what if they use the command i've posted above?
06:56
<ogra>
sio just suppress everything you dont want during menu eneration
06:56
then they circumvent polkit
06:57
<laga>
"circumvent"?!
06:57
<ogra>
and consolekit
06:57
<Q-FUNK>
laga: LOL
06:57
<ogra>
forget about that crap
06:57
all you want is to fix up the menu
06:57
<laga>
you've got to be kidding me. consolekit and polkit is of zero use in this use case when i can just talk to dbus directly!
06:58
<ogra>
vi /etc/dbus-1/system.d/hal.conf
06:58
can you write to that file ?
06:58
<laga>
ogra: no. i assumed that you were talking about removing menu entries, but not about removing the ability to shut down the server using hal
06:59
<ogra>
there is no such ability by default
06:59
forget about hal here
06:59
omit the menu entries
06:59
all you want in the shutdown menu on xfce is te logout option ... nothing more
06:59
<laga>
i'll have to play with policykit i guess :)
07:00
<ogra>
no
07:00
fix the menu
07:00* Q-FUNK ´╗┐still doesn't get why LTSP in Ubuntu/Hardy works with any "amd" variant but fails with a "geode" (with or without the symbolic link to amd_drv.so).
07:00
<ogra>
(its very likely not more than 5 lines of C)
07:00
<laga>
ogra: i'm not concerned about xfce, i was just concerned there was a scurity/DoS hole. i've got got play with policykit to find out what else it can do ;)
07:01
<ogra>
ah, right
07:01
<laga>
hence my excitement :)
07:01
<ogra>
it has a nice gui tool to set all the permissions
07:01
(instaled by default)
07:18
<Q-FUNK>
ogra: did you ever reflash your 61 with the latest PXE bios we produced, btw?
07:30K_O-Gnom has quit IRC
07:39* muh2000 is happy that the new xorg geode driver etc now starts X in a few seconds instead of hours :)
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07:55
<daya>
ogra, Do I need to specify default locale in some where for ldm,
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08:02
<Q-FUNK>
muh2000: oh?
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08:05
<muh2000>
yes ^^
08:10
<Q-FUNK>
muh2000: working in Hardy? in LTSP?
08:10
<muh2000>
Q-FUNK: debian sid/unstable
08:10
<Q-FUNK>
muh2000: with or without xorg.conf ?
08:10
<muh2000>
working, exept for X_MODE_0 1024x768 or other resolutions
08:11
<Q-FUNK>
muh2000: ah, so debian/sid LTSP
08:11
<muh2000>
Q-FUNK: it worked without a special xorg.conf. but took 4-5 hours to load X. the new driver fixed that :)
08:11
<Q-FUNK>
muh2000: even with the new driver? the new driver should completely bypass the BIOS to poll DDC
08:12
it should use the biggest available resoluton for your display
08:13
<muh2000>
Q-FUNK: hmmm ok the monitor is a littlebit old. lets say like 1992 old :)
08:13
<Q-FUNK>
right, so 1024x768 might be the best it can do
08:13
<muh2000>
nah
08:13
1600*1200 is the best @ 60 hz
08:13
1280x1024 @ 75hz
08:13
<Q-FUNK>
and it doesn't give you that?
08:14
on which geode hardware, again?
08:14
<muh2000>
nope.
08:14
alix3c3
08:14
http://pcengines.ch/alix3c3.htm
08:14
<Q-FUNK>
sh yes
08:16
can you run it as a standalone host with a basic Sid install on the CF, see what it does, and file a bug on Debian using reportbug?
08:16
reportbug will automaticaly collect the X log and other data I need to debug why it doesn't give you larger rez.
08:22
ogra: btw, libDDC has been merged as a +git20080424-1 package for -geode.
08:24
<muh2000>
Q-FUNK: hmmm 512 mbyte enough for that? well the monitor is not the newest and always had problems with X and the option DPMS where the hz etc would be recognized...
08:25
<Q-FUNK>
ok, so a tricky monitor to beging with, then
08:25
hmm.. maybe not worth reporting about, then
08:26
<muh2000>
Q-FUNK: not worth it in my opinion.
08:26
i want to replace that thing when i have money with a tft.
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08:50
<petre>
Morning all
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09:02
<Q-FUNK>
muh2000: sounds like a plan. here, I found myself a pretty good 17" viewsonic TFT for cheap at the local finnish e-bay.
09:03
<muh2000>
:)
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09:20
<cliebow>
howdy Eric!
09:20
<petre>
Morning eharrison
09:20
<eharrison>
good morning
09:21
<petre>
had your coffee yet?
09:21
<eharrison>
just finishing the first cup!
09:21* eharrison is off to fetch the second...
09:22
<petre>
then we can anticipate erudite answers from you ;-)
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09:25
<eharrison>
I did a "proof of concept" build of a "K12LTSP like" install DVD for F9 last night. It *almost* works out of the box ;-)
09:26* warren awake
09:26
<warren>
although I need a qiuck, shower
09:26
brb
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09:30
<Nubae>
hmmm... there was a change in groups from gutsy to hardy... powerdev is now not used anymore?
09:38* warren back
09:38
<warren>
anybody running fedora 8? I haven't done builds for fedora 8 in a month or so.
09:38
I can do more builds but i need testing
09:39
<eharrison>
I have f8 on my ltsp server at work, but it has a f9 chroot copied over from my f9 laptop
09:40
/usr/sbin/ltsp-* from f9 all seem to work ok on f8
09:41
<warren>
eharrison: note that ltsp-server on F-8 should be able to install a f-9 chroot
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09:41
<warren>
eharrison: ltsp-build-client --release=9
09:41
<ogra>
Nubae, yes, for local mounting policykit resolves the access control for gvfs now, no need for a dedicated group anymore
09:42
<petre>
I've got f8 on my laptop
09:42
finally got f9 in a vm, updating now
09:42
<warren>
I uploaded part of it to the repo. still have to rebuild ldm and ltspfs
09:42
If you already installed /opt/ltsp/i386 I need retesting with the newer ltsp-server
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09:43
<warren>
so go ahead and erase /opt/ltsp/i386 and use ltsp-build-client again
09:43
<ogra>
warren, uh, why --release ? why dont you use the existing --dist ?
09:43
<warren>
ogra: what type of arg does that take?
09:43
<ogra>
(saves doc updates at least)
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09:44
<ogra>
well, hardy, sid, lenny, etch .... fo you i could imagine fc8 or fc9 for that
09:44
<warren>
yeah, I needed a number there.
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09:45
<ogra>
not that you have to, but there is a lot docs out there that would be easier to match using that
09:45
<rjune>
mistik1: howdy
09:45
<warren>
I added both --distro and --release because both need to be adjustable independently
09:45
<ogra>
can you rename --distro ?
09:46
thats used already
09:46
at least as --dist
09:46
<warren>
no
09:46
our need is a bit different
09:46
<ogra>
well, but the docs talk about --dist
09:47
its totally confusing to use similary named options for different stuff
09:47
<warren>
I had to do this to get around the lsb_release thing during ltsp-build-client because I can't rely on it.
09:47
What is a better option for name of your distro?
09:48
<ogra>
well, give it another name then, but please dont re use existing option names that migth be documented somewhere differently
09:48
<rjune>
--distro-name ?
09:49
<ogra>
in any case there are many debian and ubuntu howtos out there that use this option as well
09:49
--lsb-distro
09:49
<Nubae>
--distrib
09:49
<ogra>
nah
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09:49
<ogra>
to similar
09:49
sounds like a long option to --dist
09:49
<petre>
warren, do I need to update anything before running ltsp-build-client on f8
09:49
?
09:50
<Nubae>
yeah
09:50
<warren>
petre: hold on, i'm updating ldm and ltspfs too
09:52
--lsb-distro does not describe what this option does
09:52
<ogra>
well, --dist is taken, please dont change its purpose, i'm fine with any other name
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09:53
<ogra>
we should go through all options at least once to make sure we have the common ones similar in all distros
09:53
thats sadly a disadvantage of the plugin system ...
09:53
<petre>
warren, standing by...
09:53
<warren>
OK, I'll change it at some point in the future
09:53
this particular option isn't used by my users yet
09:53
<ogra>
right
09:54
<warren>
since I support only Fedora at the moment
09:54
<Nubae>
and make sure ltsp-update-image and ltsp-build-client have the same options or at least similar
09:54
<warren>
We don't ship ltsp-update-image at all yet
09:54
<ogra>
as long as it doesnt show up in docs or howtos or MLs yet so people could find contadicting info with google all is fine
09:54
<Nubae>
right now --arch means one thing in ltsp-build-client and another in ltsp-update-image
09:54
<warren>
it contains debianisms
09:54
<Nubae>
heh
09:54
<ogra>
warren, update-image ?
09:54
yeah, that might be
09:55
patches happily accepted :)
09:55
<warren>
we also don't do nbd yet
09:55
<Nubae>
no nbd... that's a loss
09:55
<ogra>
Nubae, depends on your POV
09:55
:)
09:55
<Nubae>
well, if speed is your need
09:55
<ogra>
nbd is a PITA if you do development on a slow machine for example
09:56
rebuilding the image all the time can be annoying
09:56
<Nubae>
ok, rebuilding the image, yeah maybe
09:56
<ogra>
for general use its fine though
09:56
<Nubae>
its a pain when working with low fat clients
09:56
<ogra>
you are not forced to :) nfs is still there
09:56
<warren>
I'm adding nbd soon
09:57
I have working code for nbd but our OS guys rejected it
09:57
<ogra>
oh ?
09:57
why is that ?
09:57
<warren>
because they want me to write proper support for nbd as a standard mount option
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09:57
<warren>
also they want a IETF RFC for nbd options
09:57
<ogra>
ah, not the nbd-server/-client side then but initramfs support
09:57
<warren>
no
09:57
<ogra>
i thought things like nbdrootd
09:57
or *swapd
09:58
<warren>
mount -t squashfs -o ro,nbd 192.168.0.254:2000 /mnt/somewhere
09:58
<ogra>
(both should rather be options to nbd-server though)
09:58
<warren>
nbd mount syntax should be just like loop
09:58
<ogra>
that doest work, since you need the nbd-client running for it first
09:59
so something needs to be added to mount
09:59
<warren>
mount can wrap that
09:59
Yes, that's the idea.
10:00
<ogra>
hard to do in a way that doesnt clash with nbd-client's config etc ... that will need good planning
10:00
<warren>
yeah, that's why this will take me a lot more work
10:00
<petre>
warren, running yum install ltsp-server, I get a package not signed error
10:01
<warren>
i'm uploading F-8 ldm now. still need to rebuild ltspfs
10:02
<petre>
this is on f9, btw
10:03* petre will try to be explicit about which system he is on in his comments
10:03
<warren>
petre: what repos do you have in /etc/yum.repos.d/?
10:04
<petre>
warren, fedora, rawhide, updates, updates-testing
10:06
<warren>
rpm -q fedora-release ?
10:06
<petre>
rawhide and updates-testing are disabled though
10:08
fedora-release-9.0.1.rc.noarch
10:08
<warren>
uploading new builds for F-8
10:08
petre: try "yum clean all" and "yum update" again
10:11* warren erases /opt/ltsp/i386 and tests ltsp-build-client --release=8
10:11
<warren>
So I'm thinking we need to do a redesign of part of this.
10:11
stuff that is configured during ltsp-build-client after the chroot is installed...
10:11
should instead be done by a RPM within the chroot
10:11
why?
10:12
so yum update's can fix things fixed by newer RPMS
10:12
This is going to be a mess...
10:12
unless we tell everyone "sorry, you have to erase your chroot and install from scratch"
10:13
OK, F-8 has everything uploaded now, you could give it a test.
10:13
i'm trying Fedora 8 chroot install on Fedora 9 now.
10:13
but I can't test fedora 8 host so easily.
10:13
<petre>
trying ltsp-build-client on f8 now...
10:13
<warren>
petre: what version of ltsp-server?
10:14
rpm -q ltsp-server
10:14
<petre>
ltsp-server-5.1.2-1.20080330.11.fc8
10:14
<warren>
petre: can you yum update that first? there's a 5.1.5 in the repo now.
10:15
<petre>
will do (was wondering about that)
10:15
<warren>
So other news to report...
10:16
- I spent maybe 2 days fighting the AMD Geode driver in F-9 because it is pretty prevalent in thin clients. Q-FUNK of Artec Group sent me two thincan clients.
10:16
http://www.x.org/wiki/AMDGeodeDriver xorg-x11-drv-geode in F-9 is in pretty good shape, finally does proper DDC detection on all tests to use native resolution on my monitors.
10:17
Only there is a new bug between X.org 1.5 and geode causing black boxes to render. Some issue with EXA composite rendering.
10:17
Currently nobody other than Fedora 9 is using X.org 1.5 so it might be a while before other people begin seeing it.
10:18
- I also spent about 2 days working on non-PXE booting for LTSP5 in Fedora. One of Artec Group's thincans had coreboot/Etherboot which does not support PXE.
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10:19
<warren>
Interestingly none of the existing tools mknbi/mkelf/mkelfimage/wraplinux work successfully with Fedora 9's kernel. It might be something new in the 2.6.25 based kernel we use in F-9 that is incompatible.
10:19
All details of this were posted to ltsp-developer list with links to other reports.
10:20
- https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/HardwareNotes I began adding my hardware testing details here. Go ahead and add your own or give me details and I'll add it.
10:21
<petre>
so, is etherboot supported atm or not?
10:21K_O-Gnom has quit IRC
10:21
<warren>
not yet
10:21
it seems completely busted by F9's kernel
10:22
I'm testing F-8 kernel now
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10:22
<petre>
in theory, shouldn't one be able to build an older, etherboot-compatible chroot?
10:22
<warren>
eharrison: dan_young: petre: any opinion on this...
10:23
eharrison: dan_young: petre: i'm thinking to rename /etc/ltsp/ltsp-dhcpd.conf to /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
10:23
or maybe bad idea...
10:23
petre: the chroot is exactly the same
10:23
<dan_young>
had been problematic on dhcpd upgrade previously
10:23
<warren>
petre: only thing that is different is kernel and initrd must be wrapped into a single image
10:23
dan_young: oh?
10:23
<dan_young>
warren: nevermind, I misread that
10:24
<warren>
err, nevermind, i will not rename it, only cosmetic
10:24
I'm just bothered by the several things in /etc/ltsp/ltsp-* that all look the same
10:24* dan_young shrugs
10:24
<warren>
"ltsp/ltsp*" is redundant
10:25
<petre>
what does, say, ubuntu do?
10:25
<dan_young>
probably good to do at some point, so all ltsp-server configs are in one place
10:25
<petre>
consistency from one distro to another would be good
10:25
<warren>
can someone find out?
10:25
<dan_young>
brought to you by dept of redundancy dept
10:25
<warren>
I have not been able to successfully install Ubuntu on any machine
10:25
the ISO doesn't work
10:25
<eharrison>
I"ll take a look at my edubuntu box...
10:25
<ogra>
warren, ?
10:26
<warren>
ogra: I must have bad luck or something
10:26
<ogra>
!ubuntu
10:26
<ltspbot>
ogra: "ubuntu" is a Debian based GNU/Linux distrubution that includes a Ubuntu specific version of LTSP. It can be found at http://www.ubuntulinux.org. to install ltsp on ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
10:26
<ogra>
CD instructions are at the latter link
10:26
<warren>
ogra: I downloaded your previous version of edubuntu and now ubuntu 8.04 desktop, the ISO's in both case don't work in kvm and when I burned them theydon't boot.
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10:26
<eharrison>
warren: edubuntu is /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
10:26
<ogra>
that sounds rather like a corrupted iso
10:27
<laga>
ogra: i've just tested the shutdown command i posted above (which uses dbus) and i couldn't shut down the server from my client. i'm relieved now :)
10:27
<ogra>
eharrison, note tht our dhcpd uses that file live if it exists ...
10:28
<warren>
eharrison: could you compare other file names/locations to see if we can make any other quick changes?
10:28
I can do ONE more build before Fedora 9
10:28
<ogra>
laga, well, xubuntu should add a Xsession.d script that runs this dbus setup then as soon as it detects LTSP_CLIENT to be set
10:28
<warren>
I plan on pulling in these quick changes + more translations.
10:29
<ogra>
warren, err
10:29
warren, did you say 8.04 desktop ?
10:29
ltsp is only on the alternate disk (link on the install wiki)
10:30
<warren>
ogra: yes desktop
10:30
<ogra>
thats the livecd
10:30
<warren>
ogra: I was trying to get any ubuntu to install here
10:30
it wouldn't even boot
10:30
<ogra>
well, the whole team tests in kvm or vitrualbox ...
10:30
*virualbox
10:30
gah
10:31
<warren>
I didn't check checksums
10:31
where do I find that?
10:31
<ogra>
yeah, really sounds like a corrupt image
10:31
<warren>
two corrupt images in a row?
10:31
<petre>
warren, did you use bittorrent? I think that comes with the checksums
10:32
<warren>
eharrison: petre: dan_young: so the move to the new dhcpd.conf filename will break some users but we need to do it before F-9 final
10:32* petre got the desktop iso, was able to boot it in vmware
10:32
<eharrison>
warren: better now than later ;-)
10:32
<dan_young>
warren: do it now, while you can!
10:32
<xachen>
Does anybody know if just plain ubuntu when you click shutdown that it'll shutdown the workstation, not the whole server?
10:32* petre says change the name, damn the torpedos
10:32
<xachen>
Xubntu does that and its something I'd prefer to avoid
10:33
<ogra>
warren, http://mirrors.gigenet.com/ubuntu/hardy/MD5SUMS
10:33
8895167a794c5d8dedcc312fc62f1f1f *ubuntu-8.04-desktop-i386.iso
10:34
xachen, the gnome desktop doesnt offer the shutdown option, its a longstanding bug in xfce that it offers it at all
10:34
<xachen>
yeah I've quite using xfce for many reasons
10:35
Also do you kow how easy gnome-watchdog is to setup on Ubuntu?
10:35
<ogra>
no idea, i dotn use it
10:35
<xachen>
hmm k. I have the simulated issue where if I kil power to a thin client and relogin, firefox won't load because its a zombie process elsewhere
10:36
<warren>
ogra: yeah, my md5sum matches
10:36
sometihng else is going on
10:36
<ogra>
xachen, laga just tested a workaround for xfce from shuttingdown at all (see the last comment) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/65010
10:37
warren, thats very strange then, can you mount the iso properly ?
10:37
s/for/ot prevent/
10:37
*to
10:38
<warren>
hmm
10:38
ltsp-vmclient with my F-8 chroot seems weird
10:38
login to ldm, white screen
10:38
my mouse pointer moves around
10:38
ogra: yes, I can loopback it
10:39
OH
10:39
<petre>
it's been a few weeks, but ltsp-vmclient was always a bit unstable for me on f8
10:39
<warren>
it is trying to run compiz
10:39
petre: yeah, it relies on however flaky kvm is at the moment
10:39
kvm keeps changing upstream rapidly for performance at the expense of drivers
10:40
<petre>
ltsp-vmclient uses kvm?
10:40
I thought it was qemu
10:40
<warren>
kvm uses qemu-kvm
10:40
which is a fork of qemu
10:40
<petre>
ah
10:41
<warren>
if you don't have hardware virt support it fallsback to plain qemu
10:41
which is slow
10:41
<petre>
how can one check for kvm support in hardware?
10:41
<ogra>
with kqemu its relatively usable
10:41
<warren>
yeah, my problem was compiz
10:42
<ogra>
petre, egrep '(vmx|svm)' /proc/cpuinfo
10:42
<warren>
eharrison: dan_young: petre: any ideas of last minute fixes I should add to this last build before F-9?
10:43
eharrison: dan_young: petre: I'm thinking to set the LANG= so ldm translated works, change /etc/ltsp/ltsp-dhcpd.conf to /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
10:43* petre does not have kvm support, as suspected
10:43
<ogra>
you need a relatively new CPU
10:44
<warren>
petre: if you have vmware that should be even better
10:44
petre: see if vmware has command line options to boot it in PXE mode with a certain amount of RAM
10:44* ogra prefers virtualbox ... but thats because of good ubuntu integration
10:44
<warren>
petre: or make a vmware config file that does it
10:44
<petre>
warren, ah, good point!
10:44
<Nubae>
yeah, unfortunately, if you created your images with vmware, it doesn't work so great
10:45
<warren>
petre: only trick is that it has to attach itself to the ltspbr0 bridge which might not be trivial
10:45
<ogra>
setting up internal networks and thin clients is the easiest in vbox i found
10:45
<petre>
ogra, brand new toshiba laptop, dual-core centrino
10:45
but it may have been sitting on the store's shelf a while, it's not top of the line
10:46
<ogra>
cat /proc/cpuinfo |grep "model name"|head -1
10:46
<petre>
I keep trying virtualbox, but have a hard time with the bridging
10:46
<ogra>
dont use bridgin then :)
10:46toscalix has quit IRC
10:46
<ogra>
just create an internal network in the vbox gui
10:46
<Nubae>
I couldn't get virtualbox to nat either... seemed easier in vmware
10:46
<ogra>
then crete a etbooting virtual machine without disk
10:47* petre agrees with Nubae
10:47
<ogra>
tats it
10:47
<warren>
does virtualbox need kernel modules?
10:47
on the host
10:47
<Nubae>
yeah
10:47
<ogra>
takes me less than 5 min
10:47
with installed ltsp server vm indeed
10:48
<petre>
ogra, laptop is Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T5450 @ 1.66GHz
10:48
<warren>
# Find tftp server
10:48
# XXX: option routers is not guaranteed to be the tftp server. Need to figure
10:48
# out a better way to detect the tftp server address.
10:48
ROOTSERVER="$(cat /dev/.dhclient-eth0.leases |grep "routers" |awk {'print $3'} |sed 's/;//')"
10:48
<ogra>
ah, well, the 5xxx series doesnt have vm i think
10:48
<warren>
ogra: any better idea?
10:49
<dan_young>
petre: might check BIOS options, but I've heard of models that have the right CPU, but VT support is disabled in the BIOS
10:49
<ogra>
warren, where is that ?
10:49
initramfs ?
10:49
<warren>
ogra: ltsp-client-launch
10:49
<ogra>
initscript ?
10:49
<warren>
ogra: that's our initscript
10:49
<ogra>
why do you need ROOTSERVER there =
10:49
?
10:49
your / is mounted already
10:49
<warren>
our client grabs lts.conf over tftp very late
10:50
<ogra>
oh
10:50
<warren>
like right before it runs screen_session
10:50
<ogra>
hmm
10:50
<petre>
dan_young, tx
10:50
I'll look at next boot
10:50
<ogra>
did you check if ROOTSERVER isnt still set ? the kernel usually exports that
10:50
<warren>
petre: some models like eharrison's laptop support vt in the CPU but there is no way to enable in the BIOS
10:50
<ogra>
we have it at least available in the initramfs in that form
10:50
(as env var)
10:50
<warren>
the kernel?
10:50
<dan_young>
petre: his is a Toshiba, IIRC
10:51* eharrison does indeed have a Toshiba
10:51
<petre>
eharrison, what model do you have?
10:51
<warren>
ogra: err, I'll have to look into this later
10:51
<eharrison>
M115 something or the other (I have sticker over the rest)
10:51
<warren>
ogra: this has been working reliably for us for months
10:52
later cleanup
10:52
<ogra>
warren, well, i have all dhcp values available in my environment in the initramfs and to my knowledge there is nothing run before the mount_root script in ubuntu that could export anything, so i sspect the kernel throws it out
10:52
<warren>
I'll have to look into that
10:52
<ogra>
oh, wait
10:53
<petre>
warren, yum install ltsp-server on f9 still says package not signed
10:53mccann has joined #ltsp
10:53
<ogra>
# source relevant ipconfig output
10:53
. /tmp/net-${DEVICE}.conf
10:53
warren, seems for me it comes from ipconfig ...
10:53
<warren>
weird
10:53
<ogra>
so i guess your way is the best one can do
10:54
<warren>
ltspfs made an "Audio CD" appear on my gnome desktop
10:54
there is no CD..
10:54
<ogra>
fun
10:54
using gnome-vfs or gvfs ?
10:54
<laga>
ogra: i dont think the stuff in /tmp/net-${DEVICE}.conf is available in my normal environment on my mythbuntu clients
10:54
<ogra>
laga, no, thats from initramfs
10:55
<laga>
ah
10:55
<ogra>
/tmp is flushed if the root changes
10:55
only things actually used are copied over
10:55
<laga>
i was referring to the variables found in that file
10:55
<ogra>
yay, my diversions in the classmate installer all work :)
10:56
laga, ah
10:58
<warren>
ahh
10:58
our LANG problem might have been because I blindly copy & pasted from debian's initscript
11:04
confirmed, the language fix was simple
11:08DonSilver has quit IRC
11:08
<warren>
if [ -f /etc/sysconfig/language ]
11:08
then
11:08
LANG=`. /etc/sysconfig/language; echo $RC_LANG`
11:08
export LANG
11:08
this makes little sense
11:09
<eharrison>
warren: I'm working on a updates.img that will auto-magically build a functional LTSP server. So far it looks like everything is going to work, except that /usr/sbin/ltsp-server-initialize is busted (which we already knew). I'll work on fixing that today.
11:09
<warren>
eharrison: ogra: petre: so I guess we're done for today, anything else you had in mind?
11:09
eharrison: oh, you're still thinking traditional installer...
11:09
<petre>
any further suggestions for my unsigned package problem for ltsp-server on f9?
11:09
<warren>
eharrison: I was thinking live LTSP server instead
11:09
eharrison: I suppose you'll get there sooner than me
11:10
petre: oh yeha, let me take alook
11:10
<eharrison>
warren: excellent & easy proof-of-concept, if nothing else (nothing beats running code ;-)
11:11
<warren>
petre: damn, it was mistakenly pushed without a signature
11:12
petre: skip the gpg check for now
11:12rjune has left #ltsp
11:12
<petre>
warren, is that a parameter I pass to yum?
11:13
<warren>
yeah
11:13
I don't remember the exact syntax..
11:14
find it on google
11:15
<petre>
k
11:15
<warren>
everyone have wiki edit acces?
11:16
dan? eric? petre?
11:16
<petre>
yep
11:16Pascal_1 has joined #ltsp
11:16* eharrison is not sure, has not tried to document anything yet :-(
11:17Pascal_1 has quit IRC
11:18
<petre>
yum --nogpgcheck
11:19
<warren>
eharrison: uses the same login as your fedora account
11:20
eharrison: https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/
11:20
give it a quick test?
11:20
hmm, can someone make a quick an dirty logo to replace that Trac logo?
11:20* petre likes the one from the k12ltsp wiki
11:22
<eharrison>
now all need todo is remember my fedora account password
11:22* eharrison has too many accounts ;-)
11:23
<Nubae>
wow... 3 hours to install a low fat client with the workstation plugin...
11:23artista_frustrad has quit IRC
11:23
<warren>
I'll ask the list for logo ideas then
11:23
or rather
11:23johnny_ has joined #ltsp
11:23
<johnny_>
howdy
11:23
#ubuntu sucks :(
11:24
but then again.... so do all the #$distro channels ..
11:24artista_frustrad has joined #ltsp
11:24
<Nubae>
johnny why?
11:25
<johnny_>
because it's impossible to get any help
11:25
too many other n00bs trying to get help.. rather than do the helping
11:25
i've never once got my questions answered there or #gentoo
11:25
<Nubae>
depends on your question, if its simple enough, no problem, otherwise, it takes time
11:25
<johnny_>
problems go by too fast before anyboyd reads them
11:25
that tends to be the real problem
11:26
there is no "stack"
11:26
<eharrison>
warren: yes, I can edit the wiki
11:26
<johnny_>
fedora ltsp ftw ....
11:26
go guys!
11:26
not that i use fedora or anything
11:26
but .. i'm glad progress is being made
11:27
<warren>
Fedora exists for progress.
11:27
<Nubae>
heh
11:27
<warren>
Somebody has to write a lot of stuff so other distros can steal it all.
11:27
<johnny_>
so does every other distro..
11:27
oh c'mon
11:27
plenty of stuff exists outside of all distros that you all steal
11:27
remind me not to compliment you again
11:27
<warren>
But hey, we're stealing some stuff back now, like upstart.
11:28
<Nubae>
I'm trying to convince OLPC to move from Fedora ;-)
11:28
<eharrison>
and ltsp5 ;-)
11:28
<Nubae>
at least on the server
11:28
<warren>
OLPC server?
11:28
<johnny_>
warren, don't ever say that if you want more fedora users..
11:28
<Nubae>
yeah the XS server
11:28
<warren>
what does that do?
11:28
<Nubae>
it coordinates teh XOs
11:29
mostly they're reinventing something like ebox or webmin
11:29
<johnny_>
webmin is the suck
11:29
<warren>
sounds like something that should run on any distro
11:29
<Nubae>
which is why I've suggested moving to Ubuntu or debian
11:29
except ebox is pretty debian specific
11:30
<warren>
are you a Ubuntu developer?
11:30
<johnny_>
no
11:30
<Nubae>
and the XS server modules for things like backing up the XOs or coordinating jabber servers are Fedora specific
11:30* warren has no idea how all that stuff works
11:30
<johnny_>
so.. after hardy upgrade i lost my firefox menu icon
11:30
in the Internet menu
11:30
it's in /usr/share/applications/
11:32
<Nubae>
ok, lets see if my server now sees all 8 gigs of ramn
11:32Nubae has left #ltsp
11:32
<petre>
ltsp-server installed on f9 with --nogpgcheck
11:32
warren, are we done for today?
11:33
<warren>
yeah
11:33
I'm still here working on it though
11:33* petre has to tend to some domestic responsibilities
11:34
<warren>
thanks for coming
11:34
<petre>
oh, your new ltsp-build-client just finished successfully on my f8 box
11:34
<johnny_>
also. the upgrade totally forgot that i removed fglrx ..
11:34
and i spent two hours trying to figure out why it wouldn't install the symlink to /usr/lib/libGL.so.1
11:35
<warren>
petre: Yeah I suspect it works fine, I'm running a F-8 chroot on my F-9 host now.
11:35
haven't tested this in weeks
11:36
<petre>
I'll may have some time tonight to take it out for a spin
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12:16
<warren>
johnny: I'm sorry, I was unproductively bitter earlier
12:18makghosh|afk is now known as makghosh
12:19
<johnny_>
thanks for that
12:24
everybody was here earlier.. now they are gonez
12:25
<warren>
well, sunday mornigs are the k12linux meetings
12:26
<cyberorg>
warren, if you are so worried about other people using your work, you shouldn't be working on open source projects :)
12:28
<warren>
It isn't that.
12:28
<cyberorg>
btw, hi all, been away for a week, how are things
12:29
<warren>
We feel frustration because others are not actively trying to give their own changes back to upstream projects as actively as we are.
12:29
I know jcastro is trying to work on this problem.
12:30
A key fallacy here is "making it available" is not the same as truly giving to upstream
12:30
We in Fedora did make a few mistakes like this
12:30
like our openssh patch since 2005 that didn't go upstream
12:30
<cyberorg>
not every upstream project gets all the distros love they deserve, give it some time, last couple of years only debian and ubuntu were doing most of the work
12:30
<warren>
that turned out be a security hole
12:30
<johnny_>
i'd say the same issue with hal exists warren
12:30cliebow has quit IRC
12:31
<johnny_>
lots of people were upset about that
12:31
i hope that gets resolved
12:31
<warren>
I don't know the hal story
12:31
<johnny_>
i watched the hal lists .. davidz would just put code drops up
12:31
it was annoying
12:31
lots of people were upset
12:31
<warren>
there's no central source repo?
12:31
<johnny_>
he never thought he did anything wrong
12:31
<Nubae>
warren: u have a commercial use for ltsp at the moment?
12:31
<warren>
Nubae: nope
12:32
<johnny_>
warren, sure.. but it wasn't used until lots of code had been built up
12:32
<warren>
johnny: it is possible that he's doing something hostile, I can look into it if I have a more detailed description of what's going on
12:32
<cyberorg>
hey we have LTSP GUI project selected for GSOC :)
12:32
<johnny_>
i doubt he's doing something actively hostile
12:32
he just doesn't think what he is doing is wrong
12:32
<cyberorg>
http://news.opensuse.org/
12:32
<warren>
Some people need attitude adjustment
12:33
<johnny_>
that would be great
12:33
our hal maintainer quit
12:33
because he thought his issues were not being properly taken care of
12:33
<warren>
volunteer or employee?
12:34
<johnny_>
davidz
12:34
<warren>
We pride ourselves about our general relationship with upstream. If one of our developers is behaving as you describe then they deserve a stern talk.
12:35
johnny: I meant your hal maintainer
12:35
<johnny_>
oh.. we don't have employees remember :)
12:35
of course he's not the best person to interact with, when he is upset
12:36
i don't think his discussion was entirely productive after he felt he had been wronged
12:36
<warren>
who?
12:36
<johnny_>
doug goldstein
12:36
or perhaps doug klima.. i'm not sure why he uses both names
12:39
plus i think folks are not doing a good enough job of explaining why policykit is needed in general..
12:39
<warren>
So he would go for weeks/months without upstream checkins
12:39
then suddenly a big checkin?
12:39
was it split out into multiple checkins for each change?
12:39
did it have sufficient changelogs for each?
12:41makghosh has quit IRC
12:41
<johnny_>
seems to look better now
12:41
perhaps the issue is solved
12:41
i just remember people being really upset about the way it was around last november
12:44makghosh has joined #ltsp
12:45
<johnny_>
hmm.. i feel like i'm a bad person to explain the situation
12:46
as i am not directly involved with gentoo development
12:46
as in being a developer
12:46
the person you should ask about this is Cardoe here on freenode
12:46
see how he sees the situation at this point
12:47
<warren>
In general if people are displeased with the way Fedora is treating any upstream project, they should write down a summary and try to keep as much emotion out of it as possible and send it to the Fedora advisory board.
12:47K_O-Gnom has joined #ltsp
12:48
<johnny_>
hehe.. tha'ts the hard part
12:48
since it never comes to the point of sending it to the advisory board until issues have been going on for awhile
12:48
otherwise you're sending prematurely most likely
12:48
<warren>
It need not be scolding
12:48cliebow has joined #ltsp
12:49K_O-Gnom has quit IRC
12:49
<warren>
"We have been seeing FOO and BAR and this concerns us a bit. Could you folks please consider doing BAZ?"
12:50makghosh|afk has joined #ltsp
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12:53
<johnny_>
aha.. found the blog post that mentions all of it
12:53
http://blog.cardoe.com/archives/2007/12/06/no-longer-maintaining-gentoos-hal/
12:54
ok.. headin home..bbiab
12:54johnny_ has quit IRC
13:06
<warren>
eharrison: hmm, ltspfs stopped working for me on F9
13:06
eharrison: after I reinstalled my chroot
13:06
it mounts and appears on the desktop
13:07
but it is empty
13:07
part of it broke, but not all
13:08
Either I forgot to commit something to ltsp-trunk that I had in my chroot only.
13:08
Or something changed in Fedora itself.
13:10
gvfs changed twice since April 17th...
13:15
crap, it appears something broke
13:15
it is really strange
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13:20
<johnny>
i was told that gvfs would unmount if you killed the processes
13:21
but that isn't true
13:21
<mistik1>
ogra: Glad to see you are arounf again man
13:21
around even
13:22
<cliebow>
and good to see mistik1 as well ;-]
13:24makghosh has quit IRC
13:25
<mistik1>
;)
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14:19
<lns>
Q-FUNK, yo! How's testing the amd xorg driver w/Hardy? Is it working pretty well?
14:20
<Q-FUNK>
lns: I still have no idea why X won't automatically find the driver.
14:21bobby_C has joined #ltsp
14:21
<lns>
hmmm
14:21
is that through the fairly new -autoconfigure x stuff?
14:21
<Q-FUNK>
lns: however, "downgrading" geode to amd suddenly makes it work in LTSP, but not in standalone hosts.
14:22
-configure
14:22
which isn't that new
14:22
it's been there since Gutsy
14:22
there's a bug that documents all the issues fairly well: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-geode/+bug/214119
14:23
<lns>
thx
14:23
<Q-FUNK>
here, purging -geode and downgrading -amd to my test 2.7.7.8 package at least restores operation on LTSP, but not on standalone hosts.
14:24
the strange thing is that amd 2.7.7.7 is supposed to be == geode 2.8.0, but only amd is found by X
14:26
<lns>
Q-FUNK, is 2.7.7.8 the one you've had in your repo for a couple months?
14:26
<Q-FUNK>
couple of weeks
14:26
<lns>
oh cool
14:26
<Q-FUNK>
it's in my PPA
14:26
<lns>
yea
14:27
so it gives you full res on ltsp?
14:27
last time i'd tried it still wouldn't give me more than 800x600 on a koolu tc
14:27
<Q-FUNK>
2.7.7.8 is not really an official release, since the driver was renamed to -geode and re-released as 2.8.0
14:27
koolu is a problem. they have a broken BIOS
14:27
<lns>
oh really
14:27
hmm
14:27
<Q-FUNK>
but 2.7.7.8 should bypass that and work
14:28
<lns>
i knew general sw bios was broken
14:28
oh cool
14:28
nice =)
14:28
<Q-FUNK>
all bioses sold on the geode market are broken in different ways
14:28
<lns>
geez
14:28
<Q-FUNK>
none of them is 100% clean
14:28
<lns>
is the geode open at all?
14:29
<Q-FUNK>
Insyde seems to be the most solid one, so far, but I'm sure that if I tried it, I'd find some new bug or another
14:29
<lns>
heh
14:29
<Q-FUNK>
what do you mean "is the geode open"?
14:29
<lns>
as in open specs
14:29
<Q-FUNK>
oh yes
14:30
even supported by coreboot
14:30
<lns>
oh cool
14:30
so just bios needs to mature
14:30
too bad amd can't embed that into it as well ;)
14:30
<Q-FUNK>
we contributed some code to support the Geode LX in Coreboot. then OLPC remixed that. now, AMD and Artec are both active contributors.
14:31
no, it's not about maturity. it's about BIOS vendors not giving a damn about the embedded market and selling uncooked shit to everyone.
14:31
<lns>
hmm
14:32
so what's the outlook on coreboot becoming more mainstream in h/w manufacturing?
14:32
<Q-FUNK>
e.g. with GSW, it was mostly an issue of changing the default build options. Artec submitted lots of patches to change those defaults and make them more usable.
14:33
with Award, they're not listening to anyone and most hardware manuafacturers only entered the Geode market by accident and don't really follow-up on BIOS issues, anyhow.
14:34
<lns>
i see the same lack of attention toward embedded/tc market when i was talking w/sbalneav (sp?) I think in here a couple days ago
14:34
<Q-FUNK>
in hardware manufacturing, forget it! most hardware manufacturers are into licensing BIOS the same way that e.g. HP prefers to just ship all their hardware with Windows pre-instaled.
14:35
<lns>
as far as upstream debian ltsp commits
14:35
i dunno i'm probably not getting the whole picture but coreboot seems like a good idea to move toward
14:35
<Q-FUNK>
as I've been able to verify times and times again, our company is a rarity in that almost everything we build boots off Coreboot, by design.
14:36
<lns>
that's awesome
14:37
<Q-FUNK>
I keep on getting contacts from tons of hardware vendors in the Geode market who are unhapy with their current chinese suppliers. they see that we are a free softwware contributor and that we understand that market. their chinese suppliers don't get it.
14:38
<lns>
i'm sure it will take time...everything is so new still, but there's been a ton of progress over the past few years with OSS in general
14:38
just doesn't move as fast as we'd all like it to
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14:39
<Q-FUNK>
the only obstacle is that many of those are from USA and the currency rate is no longer good for them. whereas 1 year ago they could have bought the whole Estonia for peanuts, now the tables are turned.
14:39
<lns>
heh
14:39
sucks how our economy plays a role like that
14:40
well i think our biggest assets are our own individual companies/contributors
14:40
<Q-FUNK>
no, it's mostly that americans are not used to be on the losing side of economy. it freaks many people that they can no longer buy whatever from wherever non-US and no longer get it for a buck a dozen.
14:40
<lns>
very true
14:40
i'm seeing people selling their BMWs left and right recently
14:41
"Oh, the economy!"
14:41
<Q-FUNK>
they are used to be on the big end of the stick.
14:42
<lns>
People get freaked out about everyone saying the economy is bad, so they stop buying stuff, and it gets worse - but nobody lowers their prices
14:42
<Q-FUNK>
e.g. two recent contacts I got from US were like...
14:42
Yeegods! a year ago and we could have just bought your company and get this unpleasant branding issue taken care of but, now, you're telling me that you won't sell to use as white goods with our brand on it?
14:42
<lns>
and understandably so
14:43
lol
14:43
the little guys are standing up for themselves now
14:43
<Q-FUNK>
oh the arrogance " back then, we could have just bought your comapny off to fix the imposibility of selling under our own brand"
14:43
<lns>
i smell dotcom bust v2.0
14:44
<Q-FUNK>
I smell USbust 1.0
14:44
the 30's crisis will sound like a piece of cake, compared to that
14:44
<lns>
there are dependencies in there somewhere i think ;)
14:44
<Q-FUNK>
not anymore
14:45
I used ot think that if US goes bust, the rest of the world will fall down in town. not anymore.
14:45
<lns>
bah
14:45
no way
14:45
the US is just used to thinking they're the cornerstone of the planet
14:45
at least politically and economically
14:45
<Q-FUNK>
I've recently seen plenty of signs that countries are able to do just fine trading only with non-US markets.
14:45
used to.
14:45
exactly
14:46
<lns>
we're still a very young country
14:46
we have a lot to learn
14:46
<Q-FUNK>
the arrogance and bravado of youth.
14:46
<lns>
exactly
14:46
the rebellious teenager =p
14:46
"I know EVERYTHING!"
14:47
<Q-FUNK>
typical highschool bully: your mama san and I'm bigger than your dad. na na na!
14:47
<lns>
heh
14:47
i don't fear what's coming to us politically
14:47
<Q-FUNK>
now, gimme all your goodies, LOOSER!!!
14:47
I'm sad for the economic hardship US will experience, but politically this will be a really beneficial cleanup.
14:48
<lns>
i agree
14:48
i think, as long as the PEOPLE stick together we can revamp how we do things
14:49
a big thing i see with LTSP and energy in general that we can benefit from is touting the very little energy thin clients take
14:49
that can help the economy as well as giving us all a good base to build business on
14:49
not to mention spreading OSS
14:49
<Q-FUNK>
funny you mention that
14:49
<lns>
people are very money conscious now, and vista's fallout seems like the absolute perfect opportunity
14:51
<Q-FUNK>
a pal today got scared for his job. the reasoon?
14:51
he came up up with a REALLY efficient graphics rendering engine. his boss literally freaked out, because they have a partnership with Intel, who obviously has an interest in people WANTING more powerfull CPU.
14:51
<lns>
wow
14:51
see that's the thing right there
14:51
"More power!"
14:52
Everyone's used to having an SUV under their desk
14:52
<Q-FUNK>
and of course, a super efficient rendering engine that makes an old P3 feel as fast as an opteron is bad news for CPU sales.
14:52
<lns>
well the CPU manufacturers will have to adapt
14:53
look at how intel's following amd and others in the low power market
14:53
<Q-FUNK>
that's the same idea: curse against SUV drivers who endanger everyone, but insist on dropping your kids to school with the biggest badass humvee money can buy
14:53
<lns>
i won't start ranting about the media promoting SUVs the way they have in the past few years
14:54TelnetManta has quit IRC
14:54
<lns>
it's a big ugly system in place right now, but i do think people are starting to wake up a bit from it all
14:54
<Q-FUNK>
what doesn't help is how SUV are portraed as environmentally cleaner than e.g. prius or biodiesel
14:54
the ecnomic crash will force them to wake up
14:54
<lns>
well yeah they try to tout their "economy" and "safety"
14:54
it's all a mask
14:54
yup
14:54
and you know
14:55
thin client computing is just one of many things people will be very open to after that
14:55
especially with FOSS software out there
14:55
nobody likes vista
14:55
especially business/education sector
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14:55
<Q-FUNK>
here, in EU, we all look at this in disbelief and shake our heads. we all end up happy to give shelter who whichever american wants to escape all this and convert to european frugality.
14:56
<lns>
Q-FUNK, there are more here than you think that are willing
14:56
the media you are exposed to from here is a big ugly mask
14:56
the people know what's going on
14:56
<Q-FUNK>
vista (and xp, already) was recommended against by the physician union, because the EULA allows MS to install/remove whatever they want, including some patient record management software
14:56
<lns>
doesn't surprise me
14:57
<Q-FUNK>
we don't even pahy attention to the mass media, TBH
14:57
<lns>
tbh?
14:57
oh
14:57
nm
14:57
<Q-FUNK>
to be honnest
14:57
<lns>
=p
14:57
that's good
14:57
<Q-FUNK>
at least, er,e nobody except politicians seem to believe what they see in the media, ablout US or anywhere else
14:57
<lns>
there are plenty of "normal" people who don't believe bush even won the election in 04
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14:58
<lns>
yeah
14:58
it's as fictional as the sitcoms they show
14:58
and sad
14:58
youtube is making a lot of change, and i thank them for that
14:58
too bad adobe has their hands in all that =p
14:59
<Q-FUNK>
politics everywhere has beocme a big sitcom. nobody really believes in democracy, as a result of that. then againt, caveat: they have the guns.
14:59
we don't.
14:59
<lns>
i think people believe in democracy
14:59
just not our retarted tumor of one
14:59
<Q-FUNK>
in too many countries, getting a gun or your rights has become the rarity, rather than the norm.
15:00
<lns>
i have guns
15:00
and i'm very proud to have them
15:00
<Q-FUNK>
it doesn't help that most people's definition of democracy is limited to "the right to cast a ballot every few years"
15:00
<lns>
because the constitution tells me i need them to defend against the government
15:00
right
15:00
<Q-FUNK>
and you do
15:01
but most countries out there have no such right in the constitution
15:01
including your neighbor up north
15:01
<lns>
is that true? I thought you could have guns there. i remember seeing a documentary that played off of that
15:02
<Q-FUNK>
that's because most govenrments know too damn well that a fully armed populace can stand and get rid of them when things have gone too far
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15:02
<lns>
michael more went to canada and there was a bank that was gtiving away a free rifle to set up a bank acct
15:02
<Q-FUNK>
bull
15:02
canada has gun regulations as strict as EU
15:02
<lns>
well, tbh, it's all still just 'law'
15:02
which is someone's idea
15:03
<Q-FUNK>
few people realize it, but canada has been keeping its laws aligned with both US and EU for ages already
15:03
<lns>
breaking the law isn't going to automatically give you the death penalty
15:03
i can see that
15:03
they seem fairly conforming
15:04
"If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns"
15:04
<Q-FUNK>
the few points where the US protests tend to be cases where canada prefered to align with EU
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15:04
<Q-FUNK>
but again, US is used to think that canada is just a 52nd state
15:04
<lns>
right
15:04
i think the whole thing is laughable really
15:05
if you take yourself out of the whole country/government equation
15:05
we're all just people
15:05
we have the opportunity to change whatever we want (or at least try to)
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15:05
<lns>
and we have some pretty awesome tools to do that with these days
15:05
the trick is to keep it under the radar
15:05
so as to not pull TOO much attention while making that change
15:05
<Q-FUNK>
...except in countries where the right to carry weapons is not constitutionally guaranteed
15:06
<lns>
get them unconstitutionally then
15:06
<Q-FUNK>
and get gitmo for life, too
15:06
they call it "rendition" suspects
15:06
<lns>
hm
15:07
hey i'll bbl - nice chat thou
15:07
<Q-FUNK>
I'm about to head home and get some sleep, but sure, let's continue some other time :)
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17:17
<johnny>
hmm..
17:17* johnny tries to figure out how to make flash be unavailable on the thin clients...
17:17
<ogra>
thats a tricky one
17:18
<johnny>
ogra.. you broke my computer :(
17:18
jk..
17:18
<ogra>
wasnt me
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17:18
<johnny>
but i spent like 2 hours trying to figure out why i couldn't install libgl1-mesa
17:18* ogra hasnt written any line in the flash code
17:18
<ogra>
because it ws installed ?
17:18
<johnny>
libgl symlink
17:19
i had a quick flirt with fglrx before i found out how good the radeon driver was
17:19
i uninstalled it
17:19
but it wasn't really gone
17:19
<ogra>
ah
17:19
<johnny>
i couldn't figure out anything to do other than edit diversions file manually
17:19
which took me hours to figure out
17:19
debian packaging is too complicated
17:20
so.. the upgrade died
17:20
it was in it's final stages, but i'm not sure if it is truly clean
17:20
<ogra>
apt-get remove xorg-driver-fglrx
17:20
:P
17:20
<johnny>
it wasn't installed
17:20
<ogra>
that contains its own libgl1-mesa
17:20
<johnny>
i know
17:21
<ogra>
oh ? how did you manage to get fglrx working then ?
17:21
<johnny>
<johnny> i had a quick flirt with fglrx before i found out how good the radeon driver was
17:21
this was a few months ago
17:21
i had removed it previously
17:21
it just left crap in diversions
17:21
so.. how do i know if the upgrade is really done?
17:22
it was in the final stages
17:22
like last minute or something
17:23
<ogra>
lsb_release -a ?
17:23
<johnny>
aha.. it says hardy
17:23
for awhile it said sid
17:24
guess after i tried update-manager again ,it solved it
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17:24
<johnny>
no.. it said something like lenny/sid
17:26
i guess the only way to solve the flash issue in the short term..
17:26
is to provide a wrapper
17:28
oh.. silly me... won't firefox use a local plugins directory ?
17:28
:)
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17:33
<johnny>
but then again.. that won't let me keep it up to date
17:33
automatically via apt
17:44
<ogra>
lenny/sid ?
17:44
thast mess
17:44
*thats
17:44
you cant mix ubuntu and debian, did you have debian repos in your sources.list ?
17:46
<johnny>
no
17:46
oh.. duh. that was me being dumb.. i looked at the wrong file
17:46
/etc/debian_release :(
17:46
instead of /etc/lsb-release
17:47
so.. the problem i mentioned around the time i personally upgraded to gnome 2.22 turns out to be true..
17:47
gvfs mounts DO NOT go away when you kill the processes
17:47
and sometimes not even when you properly log out
17:48
at that time, you weren't sure that the gvfs fuse integration was going to be included
17:48
but.. it definitely is :)
17:48
<ogra>
yeah
17:48
i see the mounts
17:49
<johnny>
had to adjust my prep_terminals.sh script
17:49
<ogra>
way worse is that apps started with sudo that have any widget that uses recent documents starts a gvfs mount for root
17:49
<johnny>
which rm -rf home directories
17:50
aha.. i saw that once too :(
17:50
<ogra>
gvfs-fuse-daemon on /root/.gvfs type fuse.gvfs-fuse-daemon (rw,nosuid,nodev)
17:50
<johnny>
din't realize where it came from
17:50
<ogra>
:(
17:50
<johnny>
that is totally lame
17:50
<ogra>
i found it in gdmsetup
17:50
<johnny>
gvfs was not ready
17:50
<ogra>
two days before release ist started a trackerd for root
17:51
at least that one got fixed
17:51
<johnny>
also.. damn thing spikes to 100% sometimes
17:51
wtf is up with that
17:51
<ogra>
no idea
17:51
<johnny>
i need a new boxen
17:51
<ogra>
well, upstream decided to make the cange
17:51
<johnny>
gvfsd-trash i think
17:51
<ogra>
*change
17:51
we jsu followed ...
17:52
*just
17:52
<johnny>
uggh.. i hate computers ;(
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21:10
<petre>
evening all
21:17
?warren
21:17
? warren
21:18
what's the irc syntax for checking the last time a specified user posted?
21:32
<warren>
petre: what's up
21:32
<petre>
uh, I can't remember now :-(
21:34
<warren>
rebooting, brb
21:39
Here's another bug that I wonder if other distros have already fixed:
21:39
Plug USB stick into one client, it appears not only on your own client, but all other logged in clients.
21:40
rebooting, brb
21:54
<lns>
petre, it's !last i believe
21:54
!last ogra
21:54
<ltspbot>
lns: (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must match; (1 more message)
21:54
<lns>
yup
21:55
<petre>
let me try that (even though I've forgotten why I was looking for warren)
21:55
!last warren
21:55
<ltspbot>
petre: (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must match; (1 more message)
21:55
<lns>
sorry i think w/o the !
21:56
last warren
21:56
guess not
21:56
<petre>
last warren
21:56
<lns>
oh wait
21:56
heh
21:56
<petre>
!last --from warren
21:56
<ltspbot>
petre: [21:40:28] <warren> rebooting, brb
21:56
<warren>
!last --from warren
21:56
<ltspbot>
warren: [21:40:28] <warren> rebooting, brb
21:56
<petre>
that's it
21:56
<lns>
=p nm
21:56
laggy bot
22:05petre has quit IRC
22:27* warren might have figured out what's causing ltspfs to fail immediately after a fresh install
22:27
<warren>
testing it... this will take a while
22:27
brb
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