IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 21 December 2006   (all times are UTC)

00:13
<vagrantc>
wow. the Debian LTSP 5 implementation is rated at "Excellent" :)
00:14* vagrantc considers downgrading it to good.
00:14
<vagrantc>
though it's arguably better than ubuntu/dapper
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01:36
<shogunx>
edgy is pretty good... only minor mods necessary, and most of it worked out of the box.
01:38
where did you see that about debian, vagrantc?
01:40
<vagrantc>
wiki.ltsp.org
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03:05
<kgoetz>
hi all. my LTSP client (dapper based) is betting to "* Loading hardware drivers..." then just says "nfs: server 192.168.0.2 not responding, still trying" after a few minutes. any thoughts what i might have broken on my way?
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05:33
<envite>
Hello all from Spain
05:33
Hola a todos desde España
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05:46
<cliebow>
not Barcelona?
05:46
8~)
05:47
<envite>
no, for sure
05:47
3000Km away
05:51
<cliebow>
holy! didnt realaize that far..
05:52
<envite>
Canary Islands
05:52
<cliebow>
cool!
05:52
in a school?
05:54
<envite>
at work
05:54
a bussiness
05:55
we're devoted to network maintenance and LTSP classrooms installation
05:56
have heard about 'mEDUXa'?
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06:14
<cliebow>
no idnt think i know mEDUXa
06:14
i see EDu in there 8~)
06:15
i do 12 schools..ltsp osx win whatever comes along
06:22
<envite>
mEDUXa is the educative distro of Canary Islands local Gov
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06:22
<envite>
we were part of the developers' team
06:23
<cliebow>
thata is great....debain based?
06:27
<ogra>
cliebow, meduxa is edubuntu based ;)
06:43
<envite>
no, kubuntu based
06:49
<str4nd>
ogra: cat /etc/ltsp.conf to me :) (i updated ltsp 4.2 to ltsp 5)
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07:02
<str4nd>
how i can do public directory... anybody can 1) add files 2) modify files 3) remove files from any user in "/public"
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07:21
<str4nd>
anyone tested ebox 2300?
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08:43
<cliebow_>
ogra:you double booying msc snd edubuntu?
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09:01
<sbalneav>
Morning all
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10:28
<efra>
Morning everybody
10:33
<cliebow_>
ho!
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11:05
<jammcq>
hey all
11:06
how's it goin?
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11:15
<cliebow_>
jammcq:howdoo!
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11:44
<mrlinux>
HEY
11:46
sbalneav, i get an error that no dhcp or bootp offers recived
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12:42
<BilboFett>
Gadi!
12:42
Merry Christmas all!
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14:04
<Mineque>
hello
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14:33
<vagrantc>
does ltspfs work ok across a NAT connection?
14:34
probably would be saner of me to scrounge up a working hub somewhere...
14:35
i need to see how invasive it would be to update debian's ltsp to work with the newer ltspfs ... maybe we can still at least get the proper hooks in place for etch.
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15:24
<vagrantc>
!checklist
15:24
<ltspbot>
vagrantc: "checklist" is The checklist for debugging problems with local device access is at http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42-LocalDev#Troubleshooting. Please work through all 12 steps, record the results, and paste the results to the pastebot at http://pastebot.ltsp.org
15:28
<tzafrir_laptop>
I'm trying to help someone with a problematic install of LTSP 4.2.
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15:30
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: hey!
15:30
<tzafrir_laptop>
The system is Mandriva 7
15:30
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: so, i can't really follow the localdev checklist ... it's pretty ltsp 4.2 specific ...
15:30
<tzafrir_laptop>
(vagrantc, no, this is not my system)
15:31* vagrantc refrains from making any distro flames
15:31
<BilboFett>
need help finding Gadi's how-to for piping sound through rdp via windows terminal services
15:31
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: though, i'm kind of stumbling through it as best i can ...
15:32
ogra: you wouldn't happen to be around?
15:32
<ogra>
meeting :P
15:33
<tzafrir_laptop>
anyway, the tftpd is atftpd. I see the kernel being transfered. I fail to see any initrd (initramfs.gz) being trasfered.
15:33
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: hey hey
15:33
<tzafrir_laptop>
The code of the initramfs seems to run. And fails
15:33
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: i'm trying to get ltspfs working with etch.
15:34
<sbalneav>
Sure, what's not working?
15:34
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: we probably won't get ltspfs itself into etch, but at least the ltsp/ldm hooks might be able to be updated.
15:34
sbalneav: so, it's not doing the add_fstab_entry bit ...
15:34
<sbalneav>
ah, ok, that would be some udev magikal stuff.
15:35
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: which might have to do with udev incompatibilities .... can we do the udev parts manually?
15:35
just to see if it's working?
15:35
<sbalneav>
sure, if it's not firing directly, you can just call the add_fstab_entry stuff manually
15:36
<vagrantc>
so... "add_fstab_entry /dev/sda4 vfat" should work?
15:36
<tzafrir_laptop>
vagrantc, is there a nice straight-forward installation of ltsp from Etch?
15:36
<vagrantc>
tzafrir_laptop: apt-get install ltsp-server && ltsp-build-client
15:36
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: yeah, that should do it.
15:37
Although the udev rule for that is pretty simple. I'm surprised it doesn't work!
15:37
<tzafrir_laptop>
if worst comes to worst , I'll offer that for reinstallation
15:38
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: add_fstab_entry seems badly borked.
15:38
<tzafrir_laptop>
so any idea what I need to check in order to see why I don't see the initramfs on the atftpd.log ?
15:38
<vagrantc>
tzafrir_laptop: you might want to use some of the ltsp-build-client options. ltsp-build-client --help
15:38* vagrantc fails to cut and paste from the other monitor
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15:38
<sbalneav>
ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="block", ENV{ID_FS_TYPE}=="?*", RUN+="add_fstab_ent
15:38
ry %k $ENV{ID_FS_TYPE}"
15:41* vagrantc uses the wonders of screen + logger + remote syslogging
15:41
<vagrantc>
mkdir: cannot create directory `/var/run/drives/usbdisk-/dev/sda4': No such file or directory
15:42
<tzafrir_laptop>
vagrantc, I'm looking at lower levels now
15:42
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: ?
15:42
<sbalneav>
ah
15:42
<vagrantc>
/var/run/drives exists
15:42
<tzafrir_laptop>
I'm familiar enough with tftp et al. and don't know ltsp's scrips well enough. So I rather understand the lower level errors first
15:42
<sbalneav>
ok, I guess it's add_fstab_entry sda4 vfat
15:43
%k in udev doesn't give you the /dev/ prefix
15:44
<vagrantc>
looks much better ...
15:45
sbalneav: so now that i have the fstab entry ... what do i do?
15:46
<sbalneav>
Well, now, on the server, you'd want to do something like the following:
15:47
mkdir /tmp/vagrantc-ltspfs/usbdisk-sda4
15:47
ltspfs ws00x:/var/run/drives/usbdisk-sda4 /tmp/vagrantc-ltspfs/usbdisk-sda4
15:48
if you've got something cool in /tmp/vagrantc-ltspfs/usbdisk-sda4, you dance the happy dance!
15:50* vagrantc dances the happy dance!
15:50
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: so now i just need to figure out how to make all that happen automagically with udev?
15:51
<ogra>
thats what the fstab scripts do :)
15:51
why cant you ship them ?
15:51
<vagrantc>
they are included.
15:51
for some reason udev isn't calling them.
15:52
<ogra>
did you ask the udev team ?
15:52* vagrantc just got starting on this 20 minutes ago
15:52
<ogra>
i know debian is different, but it must be possible to make it work the same way as in ubuntu
15:52
after all its the same upstream
15:52
<vagrantc>
i wanted to see the mount work before i worried about the udev stuff
15:53
i mean, i would have preferred it to just work, but... you know :)
15:53
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: hey, I've got an etch box at home, you gonna be on tonight?
15:53
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: not sure.
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15:55
<sbalneav>
Well, I'll do some digging tonight, howzzat? If you're on, I'll let you know right then and there, if not, you'll know tomorrow :)
15:55
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: ok.
15:55
sbalneav: how important is the /var/run/.static-device bits added to ldm ?
15:56
<ogra>
its important for floppies
15:56
<sbalneav>
Ummm, well if you DON'T have it, then things like ide hard drives, and classic floppies won't work
15:56
<vagrantc>
ok.
15:57
<sbalneav>
but anything PLUGGABLE, like a usb cdrom, or usb key will work normally.
15:57
<vagrantc>
well, we'll see if we can't get those hooks into etch.
15:57
it's not as big of changes as i thought.
15:58* vagrantc wonders where the debian udev maintainers hang out
15:59* vagrantc remembers a particularly bad interaction with the debian udev maintainer in the past
15:59
<ogra>
debian fun :)
16:00
<vagrantc>
so debian's no better than ubuntu in that regard :P
16:01
<ogra>
well, in ubuntu i can just patch the package i want (theoretically)
16:01* vagrantc remembers a particularly bad interaction with the ubuntu udev maintainer in the past
16:01
<ogra>
lool
16:01
<vagrantc>
why does udev bring so much angst.
16:02
it seems the debian's udev rules use %k with the full path to the device.
16:02
<sbalneav>
ogra: hey, what's the inside scoop on the "insane crack smoking flaming window manager by default" idea? I get a baaaaad feeling about that one, yogi. :)
16:02
<ogra>
we wont have berly
16:03
either compiz or metacity, but surely no flaming windows and theat stuff
16:03
<sbalneav>
Specifically, spending all our time in #ltsp and #edubuntu trying to either a) convice terminal people they REALLY don't want to turn it on, or b) teaching them how to turn it off :)
16:03
<dberkholz>
i get along great with our udev maintainer =)
16:04
<ogra>
well, i already clearified with the beryl guys that they'll add a mode where beryl shuts down itself if it detects LTSP_CLIENT to be set
16:04
<sbalneav>
I kinda went through 7 stages of grief with udev starting with "hating it" and ending up with "kinda liking it" :)
16:05
I think the day that keybuck gave us a 30 second one-liner that did everything that took me lines and lines of udev rules and months to figure out was kinda an "ah ha" moment :)
16:05
Remember that one Ollie?
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16:05
<ogra>
indeed
16:06
<cliebow>
"insane crack smoking flaming window manager" and i tohught wet haddock was bad
16:06
<ogra>
the enlightening "parisian 30 seconds" ...
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16:07
<cliebow>
still smarting from that sl;ap
16:07
<sbalneav>
:)
16:07
<ogra>
anyway, susie is waiting, i'm off for the day ...
16:07
<sbalneav>
Give her our regards
16:07
<ogra>
will do ...
16:07
<sbalneav>
cliebow: don't you mean slapd
16:07
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
16:08
<cliebow>
HAJH
16:08
<sbalneav>
LDAP HUMOUR THERE FOLKS!
16:08
<cliebow>
still dont grok the cowbells though
16:08
<sbalneav>
I'm here all week. Don't forget to tip your waitress.
16:08
<cliebow>
there's a cold heinie in your future
16:09* vagrantc tries to understand add_fstab_entry and fails
16:09
<cliebow>
and no ALberta Clipper humor now
16:09
<sbalneav>
It 1) tries to make a nice fake name for the device.
16:10
Then checks if the ssh connection is there, via the ssh socket (misnamed .ltspf-socket)
16:10
if it is, it sends the ssh command
16:10
if not, it adds it for the delayed mounter
16:11
(so that if you plug in the usb key, THEN log in, the key will be there.)
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16:16
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: i will file some patches. like, instead of using $1 and $2 ... grabbing that info and turning them into variables that both make sense, and can be more easily tweaked.
16:16
<sbalneav>
Readability's always a good thing!
16:17
Well, home again home again jiggity jig!
16:17
see you all tomorrow.
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16:32
<J45p3r>
cliebow: ping
16:33
<cliebow>
J45p3r:pongo
16:34
i put fc on my lappie..looks like fcas did the right thing
16:34
cause the folder is on admins desktop
16:34
<J45p3r>
wtf, so what did you do diff?
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16:36
<cliebow>
damned if i know
16:36
<J45p3r>
hrmm
16:37
well I'm wondering if you can think of any issues changing the IP and hostnames on the lamoine and beech firewalls?
16:37
and deleting all their extra machine entries in NM
16:37
<cliebow>
the airport i did help?..not a thing
16:38
just mea
16:38
<J45p3r>
mea?
16:39
<cliebow>
as lon as outside is the same mea server shouldnt bother..errr it might\
16:39
<J45p3r>
was Katie there when you put in the AP? I could ping it and the one in B-10 so must be good
16:39
<cliebow>
i ama not sos sure.. i breezed in
16:40
<J45p3r>
I'm going to go to Lamoine and Beech next week to clean up wire closets, I wanted to clean up NM and make their firewall the first IP in the range (after router)
16:41
<cliebow>
nm?
16:41
<J45p3r>
network manager
16:41
(MSLN)
16:41
<cliebow>
ahh
16:41
<J45p3r>
delete all the computers in there
16:41
<cliebow>
sounds good to me..measerver will bother i think
16:42
<J45p3r>
how so?
16:42
<cliebow>
well in surry when we went under the firewlall wwe has=d to call em to manually rest address..even behinfd firewall
16:43
<J45p3r>
oh I remember
16:43
well we are going to have MEA on the new servers any way
16:44
so we'll ahve to do that anyway probaby
16:46
<cliebow>
no prob on my part 8~)
16:46
<J45p3r>
excellent, I'll make it happen
16:47
<cliebow>
coool! go fot it! ill be playing with fc
16:47
<J45p3r>
have fun with that ;)
16:48
<cliebow>
prob is i forgot what forms i need to think about
16:49
<J45p3r>
it form?
16:49
<cliebow>
like yrouble?
16:49
<J45p3r>
yea
16:51
<cliebow>
i guess ill pplay with the radio buttons and such..i have openiyt to go by
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16:54* msinhore is away:
17:05* vagrantc dances the dance of the working ltspfs
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17:22
<bushboy>
hello all
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17:34
<cliebow>
ho
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18:36
<Mineque>
i've got a problem with my usb touchpad, moving coursor only vertically
18:37
typical usb mouse works ok
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18:39
<jammcq>
yo
18:40
<Mineque>
hi
18:40
<jammcq>
hello
18:42
<vagrantc>
jammcq: evening.
18:43
<jammcq>
howdie
18:44* vagrantc finally got around to getting newer ltspfs working with etch
18:44
<jammcq>
neat-o
18:44
<vagrantc>
still will have to backport ltspfs itself, but hopefully we can get all the hooks in place so you don't need to also backport ltsp
18:50
<jammcq>
vagrantc: I'm looking at the source code for lp_server, and it seems pretty clear to me that it's GPL. It includes a 'Copyright' file that says that it uses the 'GNU Copying license'
18:51
<vagrantc>
jammcq: it's clear to a human, but not to a lawyer.
18:51
<jammcq>
I'll contact Patrick Powell, but at this point, I don't know what the problem is
18:51
<vagrantc>
jammcq: or rather, it's clearly not acceptible under copyright law.
18:51
<jammcq>
what needs to change?
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18:52
<vagrantc>
jammcq: the licensing terms in the headers reference files that don't exist.
18:52* vagrantc looks around for an email explaining the specifics
18:53
<vagrantc>
" it has numerous files which include copyright notices
18:53
without specifying the terms of those copyright notices. the LICENSE
18:53
file refers to the "GNU COPYING license", not the GPL"
18:53
<jammcq>
can you forward that to me?
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18:55
<vagrantc>
i feel like i had an even more detailed description ...
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18:56
<vagrantc>
jammcq: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-ltsp-devel/2006-September/000393.html
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18:57
<jammcq>
ok, I'm gonna see if I can contact papowell to clear this up
18:58
<vagrantc>
cool.
19:00
at any rate, though, we should package it separately from ltsp.
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19:00
<jammcq>
sure
19:01
I just don't like the idea of loading a big-ass python interpreter to handle something as simple as printer re-direction
19:01
worst case, I'll write a new one in C
19:01
<vagrantc>
heh.
19:01
well, there seems to be no problem loading huge-ass "bash" interpreters to run shell scripts :P
19:03
<jammcq>
when we went from ltsp-4.1 to 4.2, we spent lots of time cleaning up whatever we could, to reduce the memory footprint. we were able to reduce the memory requirements by about 9mb
19:03
which, on a 32mb client is very significant
19:04
<vagrantc>
definitely.
19:04
<jammcq>
simple things, like using 'exec'
19:04
<vagrantc>
we should switch to dash as the default /bin/sh, too ... i bet that would knock several seconds off of boot times.
19:04
<cliebow>
4.2 rocks!!!
19:04
<jammcq>
not running daemons that don't need to be running
19:05
I like fast boot, but I like low memory even more
19:05
<vagrantc>
well, using a tiny /bin/sh will probably reduce the memory footprint, too.
19:05
<jammcq>
sure
19:05
it just seems like lately, the footprint has grown immensly
19:06
<vagrantc>
i've sucessfully booted 24MB machines using the ltsp stuff in debian etch
19:06
<jammcq>
cool
19:06
with X ?
19:06
<vagrantc>
yes
19:07
login was a bit slow, but it functioned after that.
19:07
<jammcq>
swap ?
19:07
<vagrantc>
using ldm or sdm, i think.
19:07
yes, swap.
19:07
X.org alone eats a lot of memory unless you use 8 bit color depth. which is almost unuseable these days.
19:08
<jammcq>
I was doing that with 12mb machines
19:08
<cliebow>
ssome of my most reliable clients are p133 with 32 meg
19:08
<vagrantc>
jammcq: if you use xdmcp instead of ldm/sdm, i bet you can go even lower.
19:09* vagrantc looks at the debian/copyright file for lprng (by the same author of lp_server) and raises an eyebrow
19:10
<vagrantc>
there's this weird exception clause.
19:10* jammcq just downloaded the latest from the lprng site
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19:12* vagrantc has several ltspfs patches for sbalneav
19:12* vagrantc goes to eat
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20:04
<vagrantc>
hmmm... maybe mounting with fs "auto" by default is not such a good idea.
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21:07
<shogunx>
with 128megs running xdmcp there should be no need for swap on the clinet, correct?
21:08
well, i guess i could answer that with htop
21:09
<vagrantc>
most likely not.
21:10
64MB should be sufficient.
21:10
<shogunx>
and worse case i could use the 64megs of onboard flash on the client as swap
21:10
<vagrantc>
if you have a crazy-high resolution or color depth, it might get higher...
21:10
<shogunx>
640x480@16
21:10
<vagrantc>
using flash for swap? eeyk.
21:11
shogunx: that sounds like a pretty low resolution.
21:11
shogunx: so you should be fine.
21:11
<shogunx>
they are 8 inch monitors.
21:11
everything else looks nasty... native 640x480
21:11
<vagrantc>
i've been using 800x600 for quite a while now. :)
21:11
<shogunx>
no option on the flash other that network swap.
21:12* vagrantc is behind the times
21:12
<shogunx>
i had to use the small monitors (made for car pc's) to keep the power footprint low enough that i could run the geode based client and monitor over one 12V PoE run.
21:13
looks like at idle the client is using about 12 megs of memory.
21:15
and with 16 megs of the 128 as video memory, i should be ok.
21:17
cdpinger and delayed_mounter are part of ltspfs, right?
21:18
looks like lbuscd is MUCH more efficient than those.
21:18
hows freegeek doing vargantc?
21:20
<vagrantc>
well, i'm virtually at freegeek regularly, but haven't actually been there since april of last year :)
21:20
<shogunx>
travelling still?
21:20
<vagrantc>
but it sounds like they're doing pretty good, overall
21:20
hunkered down in new mexico for the winter.
21:20
<shogunx>
i heard they got broken into a while back.
21:20
who would do that.
21:20
<vagrantc>
yeah. they've largely recovered from the breakin, though.
21:21
lots of community support. best kind of insurance there is :)
21:21
<shogunx>
yep
21:23
but who would steal computers from a place that gives them away? where is the logic?
21:23
<vagrantc>
people who don't qualify to get them?
21:24
<shogunx>
i was unaware of pre-qualification, other than volunteer hours spent getting educated.
21:24
<vagrantc>
basically, people who wanted to make some easy money, is my guess.
21:24
<shogunx>
could have been an attempted DOS attck too.
21:24
<vagrantc>
yeah, well, people who want to make a fast buck don't typically consider 24 hours of community service worth it
21:25
<shogunx>
true
21:25
<vagrantc>
and, they primarily stole laptops, which we don't actually get enough of to give to volunteers- those mostly go to nonprofits and some are sold in the thrift store...
21:25
<shogunx>
ahh. makes sense
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