IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 15 February 2013   (all times are UTC)

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03:21
<baptiste>
warren: hi, I've received an (agree on I guess) spam from nvidia about its GPU technology conference in 18-21 March. one of the speakers :
03:21
"Brian Madden, author of The VDI Delusion. For years, we've been hearing things like, "the future of Windows enterprise computing is VDI!" Well, if that's true, then why is only 2% of the world on VDI right now? Probably because VDI delivers a user experience that is, best case, the equivalent of a ten-year-old PC. Does this mean that VDI is doomed? Hardly! In this energetic session, independent VDI expert Brian Madden will show you the reality o
03:33
<warren>
baptiste: I did say the future would be VDI-style vs. Chromebook-style
03:33
baptiste: VDI is losing
03:34
baptiste: LTSP-style has lost ... 10 years ago
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10:43
<teacher>
#ts.sch.gr
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11:07
<papandreou>
τί έγινε βρε παιδιά;
11:07
πλάκωσε κίνηση;
11:07
<muppis>
papandreou, #ts.sch.gr
11:08
<papandreou>
thanks
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13:37
<ltspuser_46>
Hi, there. How can I use ibus on local client?
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14:57
<ltspuser_42>
Hi
14:58
I asked yesterday but I didn't understand what I need to do to change lts.conf and re-open the ldm or rdesktop session without rebooting the terminal
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15:05
<ltspuser_28>
for example
15:06
I start the terminal with a ldm session to 192.168.69.10 and a rdesktop session to 192.168.69.11
15:06
then I go to terminal console and change the lts.conf
15:06
and I need to run "something" to re-open the new ldm and rdesktop session...
15:07
because I want to change the IP of the servers
15:12
<knipwim>
why do you want to do that? why not just reboot the client
15:12
there are no processes on the client that need to keep running after you close ldm
15:14
<ltspuser_28>
because I want to do sessions by user...
15:15
and I'm running a script that ask which is the server for a specific user and when the server send I want to open a session to that server
15:15
and it's not equal for all users...
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15:21
<ltspuser_28>
for example
15:21
I turn on the terminal and appears a text console and I put the username
15:22
when I insert the username, a script is executed to know which server windows and linux is available
15:22
when I get the info I open the ldm session to the Linux machine and the rdesktop session to windows machien
15:22
machine
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15:26
<ltspuser_28>
to do this scenario I think that I could boot with a lts.conf to open a console to run the script and after that edit the lts.conf with the new SCREENs and boot again...
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15:31
<Hyperbyte>
ltspuser_28, why exactly are you trying to do this?
15:32
<knipwim>
Hyperbyte: it's a valid question right, base the server on the user that's trying to log in?
15:32
<ltspuser_28>
because I need a solution based on user...
15:32
and not on terminal
15:33
and I have a load balancing server that tells me which virtual machine I must use...
15:33
<knipwim>
ltspuser_28: why not solve it on the server side somehow? like make a proxy which determines to correct server
15:33
right
15:33
why not let the loadbalancer decide?
15:33
<ltspuser_28>
yes...
15:33
I want to do that
15:33
but based on user...
15:34
I need to send the user to that proxy
15:34
and the script is to ask the username
15:34
<Hyperbyte>
knipwim, of course it's a valid question. But I have the feeling that what ltspuser_28 is ultimately trying to accomplish, has much better approaches than this.
15:35
ltspuser_28, why do you need a solution based on user and not on terminal?
15:36
<ltspuser_28>
because I have a scenario where the user is not on the same place every day...
15:36
<Hyperbyte>
Right, and some users use rdesktop, some users use ldm?
15:36
<ltspuser_28>
and I have a virtual machine or 2 reserved for that user...
15:37
yes...
15:37
so I need to build lts.conf SCREENs based on server information
15:37
<Hyperbyte>
Every user has their own virtual machine?
15:37
<ltspuser_28>
no
15:37
for example 3 users have a group of virtual machines
15:37
in different servers...
15:38
<Hyperbyte>
Then why are you there multiple virtual machines? Why not just one big thin client server?
15:38
<knipwim>
ltspuser_28: can't you forward the connection on the server with iptables?
15:38
<Hyperbyte>
-you
15:38
<knipwim>
you can make userbased rules i think
15:38
<ltspuser_28>
and the load balancing server tells which virtual machine to use (the one on the host with more resources available)
15:39
<Hyperbyte>
I still feel you're making this horribly complicated
15:39
But okay
15:40
<ltspuser_28>
I understand...
15:40
<Hyperbyte>
Consider these facts: lts.conf is read on startup. re-reading it is pointless and not useful.
15:40
<ltspuser_28>
but you can sggest your way
15:40
with users...
15:40
<Hyperbyte>
What you want to do, if you want to do it your way, is -not- re-read lts.conf, but manipulate the data afterwards on the client.
15:40
<ltspuser_28>
and how I do that?
15:41
<Hyperbyte>
lts.conf variables become shell variables available in LDM's scripts
15:41
You can also manipulate these through LDM's scripts
15:41
<ltspuser_28>
yes
15:42
<Hyperbyte>
So what you'd want to do, is create a script that -after entering the user data-, but -before login- checks with the server which type of session it should provide for the user, and then manipulate the startup scripts.
15:42
<ltspuser_28>
I want to know if there's any scripts that I can run to renew the ldm or rdesktop session
15:42
yes
15:42
<Hyperbyte>
But actually ldm itself probably couldn't do this for you. You'd probably have to implement another DM to do this
15:43
<ltspuser_28>
you have an easiest way?
15:43
<Hyperbyte>
Since you're using either ldm, or rdesktop, you can't rely on ldm's mechanisms.
15:44
Or at least I don't think you can.
15:44
<ltspuser_28>
I thought that I could kill the ldm or rdesktop process and start another...
15:44
<Hyperbyte>
ltspuser_28, you're forgetting
15:44
LDM is the process that logs in. LDM manages the SSH connection to the server
15:44
If you kill it, the user is logged out
15:45
Hm, but if you're using rdesktop that shouldn't matter.
15:45
Well, I'd say start coding. See what kind of funky problems you run into. :-)
15:45
<ltspuser_28>
Yes... but I kill the process when I run the script to know the username... The user is not logged in yet
15:46
let's try only for rdesktop for now
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15:46
<ltspuser_28>
there are some script to start the connection?
15:46
<Hyperbyte>
ltspuser_28, why don't you just create a nice, clean PXE menu, where people can choose on startup to boot either ldm or desktop?
15:46
<ltspuser_28>
if I kill the rdesktop proces...
15:47
<Hyperbyte>
So you let people choose what they want.
15:47
<ltspuser_28>
How can I do that?
15:47
:P
15:47
but they could have both
15:47
in different screens
15:48
<Hyperbyte>
ltspuser_28, okay, so, put SCREEN_06=rdesktop server SCREEN_07=ldm in lts.conf
15:48
<ltspuser_28>
yes...
15:48
<Hyperbyte>
And tell people to press ctrl+alt+6 for rdesktop and ctrl+alt+7 for ldm
15:48
<ltspuser_28>
yes
15:48
I know that
15:49
<Hyperbyte>
... but? :P
15:49
<ltspuser_28>
but I want, in boot, get the servers IP and open the connection to that servers...
15:49
I can do that in PCE menu??
15:49
PXE*
15:50
<Hyperbyte>
ltspuser_28, is this for LDM or for rdesktop?
15:50
<ltspuser_28>
do you know the command to start a rdesktop and a ldm session in console?
15:50
I need for both
15:50
for example
15:51
I start the terminal and put my username - user1
15:51
the server (load balancing) tells me that I can use 192.168.69.10 for linux machine and 192.168.69.11 for windows
15:52
and I after that I run the command in console to open that sessions...
15:52
I don't know if it's the best way but I'm open for suggestions...
15:52
:p
15:53
<Hyperbyte>
You don't need the load balancing based on user though
15:54
<ltspuser_28>
I need to be on user though....
15:54
<Hyperbyte>
There's also another flaw to consider
15:55
If you do this immediately on startup, like we're talking now, five people could turn on their PC at the same time, the server would say "server 3 has fewest load" and 5 users log in to server 3
15:55
<ltspuser_28>
yes
15:55
I understand
15:55
<Hyperbyte>
So you really -should- do it -after- login. And since you absolutely must have it on a per-user basis
15:55
I can think of two possibilities...
15:55
<ltspuser_28>
but for now I can tell that is a flaw and suggest some ways to turn on the terminals...
15:56
<Hyperbyte>
One, start hacking LDM. See if you can get there with your solution of killing ldm and launching rdesktop.
15:56
Or else, two, write your own DM.
15:56
<ltspuser_28>
let me ask on stuation...
15:57
if I have only the terminal console how can I start a rdesktop connection in SCREEN 06?
15:57
<Hyperbyte>
No idea.
15:57
Maybe one of the developers can answer that.
15:57
<ltspuser_28>
ok
15:58
thanks for all the help and patience
15:58
;)
15:58
<Hyperbyte>
Sure. :P
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16:08
<sbalneav>
libpam_sshauth bzr rev 68 is up. Quite stable, does what it "should" :)
16:23
<knipwim>
sbalneav: well, it compiles on gentoo :)
16:23
not sure how to use it though
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16:31
<sbalneav>
knipwim: clean compile? No errors?
16:31
excellent
16:31
the README should have some hints, and I'm going to work on that wiki page this weekend.
16:32* vagrantc waves to sbalneav
16:32* vagrantc wonders where to store the debian dir for libpam-sshauth
16:33
<vagrantc>
i've kind of changed my mind about how to maintain it since dpkg source format v3 became common ... making a debian dir in upstream not such a bad thing.
16:35
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: I've got no problem simply including the debian dir upstream.
16:36
<vagrantc>
the other approach i might consider is only merging upstream versions into a branch with the debian dir...
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16:37
<sbalneav>
which works better for you? Do we want to move libpam-sshauth out of my personal source tree and into LTSP proper?
16:37
<vagrantc>
the way we've been doing ldm and ltsp and ltspfs with only the debian dir in a completely separate branch is kind of cumbersome...
16:38
sbalneav: yes, i think that would be good.
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16:38
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: then you'll have to content with the rest of us monkeys being able to muck it up. :)
16:39
<sbalneav>
Nah, that's not a problem.
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16:39
<sbalneav>
How do we do it? Lets just "git 'er done"
16:39
then you can add in the debian dir.
16:39
<vagrantc>
oh, i wish we were using git! :)
16:40* sbalneav looks to see if ogra and stgraber are around
16:40
<vagrantc>
though it makes sense to stick with bzr, since that's what everything else is using
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16:40* sbalneav whispers me too.
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16:41
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: should we remove libpam-sshauth 0.1 from wheezy?
16:42
<sbalneav>
I would. 0.2 is much better.
16:42
<vagrantc>
well, we won't be able to get 0.2 in.
16:42
<sbalneav>
backports?
16:42
<vagrantc>
yes, backports will eventually be an option
16:43
it's more a question of... is 0.1 so useless we shouldn't bother to ship it in a stable release of Debian
16:44
<sbalneav>
mmmm.. leave it in I suppose. We'll just use the 0.2 from either backports or whatever.
16:44
I suppose for all I know, someone could be using it as-is now.
16:45* vagrantc checks popcon
16:45
<sbalneav>
I've tried to write it so it could be used outside of LTSP, if desired.
16:45
If it's not a
16:46
meh.
16:46
<vagrantc>
apparently there are 5 people who've actually used it in the past week or so
16:46
26 have it installed
16:46
http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=libpam-sshauth
16:46
<sbalneav>
well, 26 that have turned on popcon.
16:46
:D
16:46
<vagrantc>
not counting people who don't bother to use popcon
16:47
<sbalneav>
right.
16:47
<vagrantc>
and the default is "no, don't spy on myself"
16:47
<sbalneav>
for a package that "unpopular", could an exception be made for wheezy, or is it a "hard freeze" at this point?
16:48
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: it's pretty deeply frozen now ...
16:48
<sbalneav>
Much like Canada :)
16:48* vagrantc hopes to see a release in the next couple months
16:48
<sbalneav>
NP, we'll just deal with it in backports.
16:48
<vagrantc>
if there are 5 confirmed actual users... it's apparently useful to someone.
16:54
if you get a chance, tag revision 52 as 0.1
16:54
52 Scott Balneaves 2011-10-28
16:54
Added shm_askpass manual page
16:54
at least, that's what 0.1 in debian was released with
16:55
or we move it over to ~ltsp-upstream and i can do it myself
16:57
<sbalneav>
Move it to upstream. Let's just do the needful. :)
16:57
That something you can do?
16:59
<vagrantc>
oh, probably...
17:00
sbalneav: if we're going to insert the debian dir directly into upstream, i might want to rebase the history ...
17:00
so that i can tag the 0.1 and debian/0.1-1 appropriately.
17:01* ogra_ is up to his ears in arms ...
17:01
<sbalneav>
Knock yourself out. :)
17:01
<ogra_>
sbalneav, how can i help ?
17:01
<vagrantc>
ogra_: which ones?
17:01
ogra_: have any experience with the openpandora?
17:01
<ogra_>
left and right :)
17:01* sbalneav has mental image of ogra sitting in a pile of severed arms
17:02
<ogra_>
ah, no, i only know its an OMAP
17:02
<sbalneav>
ogra_: Could you ppa libpam-sshauth 0.2 when vagrant gets it moved to ~ltsp-upstream?
17:02
for Ubuntu.
17:02
<ogra_>
sbalneav, kind of feels like atm ... (people depending on an image of mine that broke will need it for a sprint next week)
17:03
ppa ?
17:03
<sbalneav>
personal package archive.
17:03
<ogra_>
in one of my PPAs ?
17:03
<vagrantc>
anyone can do a ppa, no?
17:03
<sbalneav>
ogra_: sure.
17:03
so alkis can play.
17:03
<ogra_>
i thought we have a PPA for ltsp-upstream
17:03
<sbalneav>
do we?
17:03
<ogra_>
sbalneav, you shoudl eb able too
17:03* ogra_ hands out a mirror with the last sentence
17:04
<sbalneav>
I can't remember how :( I am old, father william, and my brain is quite tired :D
17:05
<ogra_>
https://launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/+archive/daily
17:05
how to upload to it is written at the top of the page
17:05
dput ppa:ltsp-upstream/daily <source.changes>
17:05ltspuser_64 has joined IRC (ltspuser_64!4fc8beaa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.200.190.170)
17:05
<ltspuser_64>
hello
17:06
<vagrantc>
alkisg has a fair amount of experience with PPAs
17:06
<sbalneav>
Maybe he can build, then.
17:06* vagrantc waves to ltspuser_64
17:06
<ogra_>
sbalneav, well, you create a source package anyway, no ?
17:07
just use the dput line above with the .sources file and it will all just work
17:07
<ltspuser_64>
i have a problem with dual display, i doesent config a dual view, just clone is working. if i config dual view the setting goes return to clone.
17:07
<vagrantc>
alkisg sets up automatic builds from bzr branches and such
17:07
<ogra_>
insane
17:07
:)
17:07
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_64: how did you configure dual view? using lts.conf?
17:07
<ogra_>
thats like ... automation ...
17:08
<vagrantc>
remarkably like it, yes :)
17:08
<ogra_>
:)
17:11
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_64: and for starters, what distro and version are you running?
17:12
ltspuser_64: if you could paste the results of ltsp-info to a pastebot, that would be helpful.
17:12
!pastebot | ltspuser_64
17:12
<ltsp>
Error: "ltspuser_64" is not a valid command.
17:12* vagrantc always forgets the redirection
17:12
<vagrantc>
!pastebot
17:12
<ltsp>
pastebot: try !pastebin
17:12
<vagrantc>
!pastebin
17:12
<ltsp>
pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
17:13
<ltspuser_64>
vagrantc: yes i using lts.conf http://pastebin.com/iiQ46LW5
17:14
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_64: and "ltsp-info" output?
17:14
<ltspuser_64>
vagrantc: the xorg conf: http://pastebin.com/PGHqAkaE
17:15
vagrantc: ltsp-info http://pastebin.com/u64WtDFh
17:16
<vagrantc>
one of my own :)
17:16
ltspuser_64: so, you shouldn't need to specify CONFIGURE_X or XSERVER at all.
17:17
ltspuser_64: and i don't have any experience with dual monitor support... but i think you should be able to specify that with XRANDR_* options
17:18
ltspuser_64: but let me get this clear ...
17:18
ltspuser_64: you're saying it works with your X_CONF at first boot, but doesn't use it after you log out or something?
17:19
<ltspuser_64>
vagrantc: the xorg.conf works on a the client without ltsp
17:20
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_64: but doesn't work at all with LTSP?
17:20
<ltspuser_64>
vagrantc: in the ltsp i dont can configure dual view just clone works. If i configure to dual view, the settings jump back to clone
17:20
vagrantc: yes
17:23
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_64: that's the part i'm not understanding... how do you "configure dual view", and what do you mean by "jump back to clone" ?
17:23dead_inside has joined IRC (dead_inside!~dead_insi@76.75.3.174)
17:25
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: ok, so i've got a test build of libpam-sshauth
17:25
<ltspuser_64>
vagrantc: i want to configure two display so i can put a window to from one display to the next .. but both display are the same view (clone)
17:26
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: cool.
17:26
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_64: i understand that... but how do you actually configure it to dual view, and how does it change back to clone?
17:26
ltspuser_64: do you use lts.conf settings? a GUI tool? wave your hands in the air? :)
17:28ltspuser_84 has joined IRC (ltspuser_84!4fc8beaa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.200.190.170)
17:28
<ltspuser_84>
vagrantc: sorry i disconnect
17:28
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_64: "jump back to clone" suggests to me you get it working, and then it switches back to clone...
17:28
<ltspuser_84>
vagrantc: with /usr/bin/kcmshell4 display
17:29
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_84: ok...
17:29
ltspuser_84: and when does it switch back?
17:29alkisg has joined IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg)
17:29* vagrantc waves to alkisg
17:29
<alkisg>
Hey vagrantc, hi all
17:29
<ltspuser_84>
vagrantc: if i config it in this tool
17:30
vagrantc: if i want to configure it in this tool
17:30
<sbalneav>
alkisg: We're moving libpam-sshauth into ~ltsp-upstream proper. By "we" I mean vagrantc :)
17:31* alkisg was just now reading about it in the logs
17:31
<sbalneav>
credit where credit is due :)
17:31* vagrantc forgets how to do anything on launchpad... again
17:31
<sbalneav>
That's my problem.
17:31ltspuser_64 has left IRC (ltspuser_64!4fc8beaa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.200.190.170, Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
17:32
<alkisg>
sbalneav, vagrantc: I wonder if we shouldn't do that in ~trunk but in a seperate ltsp6 branch
17:32
We'll need lots and lots of other changes to our hook scripts in order to make this work
17:32
So when we have something working there, we can do a merge
17:32
Without destabilizing ~trunk for months...
17:33
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it seems more appropriate to fork trunk into ltsp-5 and keep developing on trunk
17:33
or at least, another way of looking at it
17:34
but libpam-sshauth is it's own project anyways ... it's already got a separate namespace.
17:35
<alkisg>
I think ltsp6 will be too untested and too different to send us an update to e.g. greek schools for 12.04,
17:35
so for us at least I have it in my mind for 14.04...
17:36
<sbalneav>
alkisg: Oh, definitely. We're doing proof of concept the week of March. I'm not expecting production quality code by the end of the week :)
17:36
<alkisg>
And since it looks to me that it's a bit away, I wouldn't want to stop sending fixes/patches in trunk,
17:36
and with all the "new hooks" mess in the ltsp6 branch, I don't think we'll care about sending patches there
17:37dead_inside has left IRC (dead_inside!~dead_insi@76.75.3.174, Quit: Leaving...)
17:37
<alkisg>
So I'm not completely sure that "make an ltsp5 stable branch; work in trunk" is the way to go in this case....
17:39
Could we maybe postpone that for 2-3 weeks, i.e. for when we have a proof of concept working?
17:39komunista has joined IRC (komunista!~slavko@adsl-195-168-244-224.dynamic.nextra.sk)
17:39
<alkisg>
We'll need to move stuff from ldm to ltsp,
17:40
we'll need to create xsessions (thin sessions, fat sessions) from init-ltsp.d in /usr/share/xsessions,
17:40
we'll need DM or PAM hook scripts to run all the ldm/rc.d magic...
17:41
<sbalneav>
Yup. pam_exec will be our friend here.
17:42
<ltspuser_84>
vagrantc: any idear?
17:44
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_84: so, you configure it with kcmshell ... when does it "jumps back to clone" ?
17:44
ltspuser_84: with kcmshell you get it working?
17:44
<sbalneav>
What I'm hoping is that, by dropping ldm and cdpinger, and using libpam-sshauth, that LTSP "proper" will become mostly shell scripting.
17:44
<vagrantc>
alkisg: that makes sense too
17:45* alkisg continues reading the logs, about the PPA, yup it's very easy to have a recipe to autobuild it when its branch has changes
17:45
<ltspuser_84>
vagrantc: if i want to conifgure so it dosent jump back because it dosent works
17:46
<sbalneav>
libpam-sshauth is MUCH simpler to maintain, and once "working" shouldn't need much modification. With a "standard" DM, we don't have to deal with theming issues or the like.
17:46
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_84: i don't know what you mean by "jump back"
17:46
ltspuser_84: does it work at all after using kcmshell?
17:47
<ltspuser_84>
vagrantc: i select "twin view" an i press ok then it jump back to "clone"
17:48
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_84: so selecting "twin view" doesn't work at all?
17:48
<ltspuser_84>
vagrantc: yes
17:49* vagrantc was confused about "jump back" making it sound like it was in a working state at some point
17:49
<ogra_>
alkisg, liar ! its black magic !!
17:49
:)
17:49
<alkisg>
sbalneav: true, and I'm also planning for a new configuration system to eventually replace lts.conf. The ltspd daemon on the server (a combined version of ldminfod and lts.conf) will process configuration snippets from /etc/ltsp/conf.d and will send a shell-sourceable script to the client. So in a future version we'll no longer need getltscfg, i.e. probably no .c at all upstream :)
17:49
ogra_: but black magic is easy!! :P
17:49
<ogra_>
for greeks ... germans only get down to some shades of grey :P
17:50
<alkisg>
Hehe
17:50
Living with our income here requires the darkest magic ever
17:50
<ogra_>
yeah, i belive that
17:50
<alkisg>
ltspuser_84: is your problem resolution-related?
17:50
<vagrantc>
alkisg: improve your economy by hosting a bunch of foreigners for an LTSP hackfest :)
17:51
<ogra_>
++
17:51
<alkisg>
This year we're trying to do a workshop sponsored by google for local IT teachers here, if it succeeds next year I'll ask google to sponsor an ltsp-related workshop ;)
17:52
<ltspuser_84>
vagrantc: no i want twin view but both displays are the same so the are clone
17:52
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_84: yes, i understand that.
17:52
<ltspuser_84>
alkisg: no i want twin view but both displays are the same so the are clone
17:52
vagrantc: sorry alkisg ask
17:52
<vagrantc>
ah, i see. :)
17:52
<alkisg>
ltspuser_84: what happens if you don't use an lts.conf (and no xorg.conf, and no configure_x etc)?
17:53
<ltspuser_84>
alkisg: the same
17:53
<alkisg>
ltspuser_84: can you boot without an lts.conf, and post the output of `xrandr`?
17:53
<vagrantc>
now we're talking
17:53* vagrantc thanks alkisg, who's much more experienced with this sort of troubleshooting
17:53* alkisg has Gadi to thank for it
17:54ltspuser_07 has joined IRC (ltspuser_07!08179a05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.8.23.154.5)
17:54* vagrantc waves to ltspuser_07
17:54* vagrantc looks around for gadi
17:55* alkisg hasn't heard of him since he changed jobs
17:55dead_inside has joined IRC (dead_inside!~dead_insi@76.75.3.174)
17:55
<ltspuser_84>
vagrantc: i dont have any graphic-driver on the system, can this be the problem?
17:55
<ltspuser_07>
Hi. I'm trying modify the networking setup on a LTSP fat client after it has been booted (I'm trying to setup multiple vlans using openvswitch on the client).
17:55
<ltspuser_84>
alkisg: i dont have any graphic-driver on the system, can this be the problem?
17:56
<alkisg>
ltspuser_84: do you mean proprietary drivers? no, I don't think so, boot without an lts.conf and post the output of xrandr, that will tell us
17:56
<ltspuser_84>
alkisg: ok i try
17:56
<ltspuser_07>
However when I run the necessary scripts, the client freezes. I'm guessing the issue is that while running the script, it breaks the connection and can no longer download the needed programs to complete the network setup.
17:56
Is there any way to get around this issue?
17:57
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_07: don't make changes that break networking? :)
17:57
<ltspuser_07>
unfortunately we have to.....
17:57
<alkisg>
Or at least do them from the initramfs...
17:57
<ltspuser_07>
the setup is one NIC on the client
17:58
<vagrantc>
alkisg beat mme to the next suggestion...
17:59
or, if you've got enough ram, you could load the whole image into ram...
17:59dead_inside has left IRC (dead_inside!~dead_insi@76.75.3.174, Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
17:59
<ltspuser_07>
How would I use initramfs or force the entire image (or even just the programs I need) into RAM?
18:00
Sorry....I'm new to LTSP and more of a basic Linux user
18:01dead_inside has joined IRC (dead_inside!~dead_insi@76.75.3.174)
18:03
<ltspuser_84>
alkisg: xrandr output http://pastebin.com/9yUhfqVh
18:04
alkisg: it seems like both displays are just one screen (screen0: ...)
18:04
vagrantc: xrandr output http://pastebin.com/9yUhfqVh
18:04
<alkisg>
ltspuser_84: and the output of `lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA` ?
18:04
and finally, ls ~/.config/monitors.xml
18:05
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/libpam-sshauth
18:05
sbalneav: it's rebased from your branch, so won't merge or pull properly.
18:05
<alkisg>
ltspuser_84: After all that, try: xrandr --output HDMI-0 --mode 800x600 --right-of VGA-0
18:06
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_07: i recently wrong a quick hack to do that, but it's probably not the best way forward.
18:07
<ltspuser_84>
alkisg: ~/.config/monitor.xml dosent exsist
18:07
<alkisg>
Nice
18:07
*monitors
18:07
with an s
18:08
<ltspuser_84>
alkisg: and lspci: 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: InnoTek Systemberatung GmbH VirtualBox Graphics Adapter [80ee:beef]
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18:08
<alkisg>
Ah, VM server, real client?
18:08
Try this: ltsp-localapps xterm
18:08
And then run the lspci command on the xterm that will open
18:08
<ltspuser_84>
alkisg: yes real client but VMBox
18:08
<ltspuser_07>
vagrantc: I'd love to look at that hack of yours. The project I'm working on is just a proof of concept...
18:09
<alkisg>
ltspuser_07: just out of curiocity, why is openvswitch needed?
18:10
<ltspuser_07>
alkisg: we're running multiple vlans through the same physical NIC and will be switching to using OpenFlow later in the project
18:12
<alkisg>
I guess my real question is "in which case does one client need multiple vlans, and just having multiple IPs doesn't suffice"...
18:13* alkisg hasn't used vlans anywhere
18:13
<ltspuser_84>
alkisg: http://pastebin.com/mdWYc9LB xterm
18:13
<alkisg>
ltspuser_84: lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
18:13
It also tells the driver in use
18:14
ltspuser_84: also, try the xrandr command I wrote above
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18:15
<ltspuser_07>
The client is actually running virtualbox and each VM has to be on a separate vlan for various reasons.
18:16
<ltspuser_84>
alkisg: in the xtrem?
18:16
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_07: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/2431/client/Debian/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-bottom/ltsp
18:16
<alkisg>
(08:04:20 μμ) alkisg: ltspuser_84: and the output of `lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA` ?
18:16
(08:05:50 μμ) alkisg: ltspuser_84: After all that, try: xrandr --output HDMI-0 --mode 800x600 --right-of VGA-0
18:16
Both in the xterm, yeah
18:17
<vagrantc>
any of the ltspuser*, please give yourself a meaningful nick with "/nick myname"
18:17
hard to keep track of y'all :)
18:17
<alkisg>
+1
18:18sligett has joined IRC (sligett!~chatzilla@68-191-254-90.static.oxfr.ma.charter.com)
18:18
<ltspuser_84>
alkisg: http://pastebin.com/WKJ8VzfQ
18:18
<alkisg>
xrandr: screen cannot be larger than 1680x1680 (desired size 1952x864
18:19
So it's a matter of the maximum virtual size
18:19
<ltspuser_84>
ok
18:19
<alkisg>
bb in 5'...
18:22
<ltspuser_07>
vagrantc: how do I use that file?
18:27
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_07: on debian or ubuntu, it would go in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-bottom/ltsp
18:27
ltspuser_07: but you need a fairly recent ltsp version for it to work
18:28
<alkisg>
ltspuser_84: in the local xterm again, run: lsmod | grep radeon
18:28
<ltspuser_07>
vagrantc: I'm using Ubuntu 12.10 with the ltsp version that comes with it (I just installed the system a few days ago)
18:29
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_07: then you would have to rebuild the initramfs ... ltsp-chroot update-initramfs -u ; sudo ltsp-update-kernels
18:29
is that quantal?
18:30
<ltspuser_07>
yes it is
18:30
<vagrantc>
that looks recent enough, i think...
18:32
<alkisg>
ltspuser_84: finally, from the local xterm again, scp /var/log/Xorg.7.log to your server and then put it to pastebin
18:32
Maybe you're using nomodeset so the ums driver loads instead of the kms one
18:32
<ltspuser_84>
alkisg: http://pastebin.com/sP6NsHm4
18:33
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_07: you'll probably also just want to add LTSP_NBD_TO_RAM=true in there somewhere.
18:34
<alkisg>
ltspuser_84: also please type this here in IRC, so that it's easier to talk to you: /nick radeonissue
18:34
<ltspuser_07>
vagrantc: alright...so this approach is to load as much of the OS into memory as possible right?
18:36
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_07: the whole thing.
18:36
<ltspuser_07>
alright
18:36
I'll have to think about it
18:36
<alkisg>
ltspuser_84: in the end, you'll probably have to use the X_VIRTUAL lts.conf directive, but let's do it step by step
18:36
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_07: and maybe you can type "/nick openvswitchstuff" ... or whatever you want to call yourself :)
18:37
<ltspuser_07>
vagrantc: Thanks for your help
18:37
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_07: but probably setting up the openvswitch stuff from the initramfs is the way to go...
18:37
<dead_inside>
vagrantc what is the LTSP_NBD_TO_RAM option
18:38
<vagrantc>
dead_inside: it loads the whole NBD image into ram
18:38
dead_inside: so if your server goes down, your clients continue as usual.
18:38
<dead_inside>
server side or client side
18:38
<vagrantc>
uh.
18:39
dead_inside: once loaded, the server can be powered off entirely.
18:39
<dead_inside>
oh wow
18:39
<vagrantc>
for fat clients, at least.
18:39
uses a lot of ram on the thin clients.
18:39
er, clients
18:40
for thin clients, you'd still need your application server to run, but if your root server is separate from your application server, it'll work still.
18:40
<dead_inside>
that is so awesome, our clients have 8G of ram so i will totally turn that up
18:41
<ltspuser_07>
vagrantc: say I have a script called ovs-setup-full.sh that calls a subscript called ovs-setup-tap.sh and calls the necessary openvswitch stuff....how I would get that setup in initramfs?
18:41
<ltspuser_84>
alkisg: i be back next week i have to go but thank
18:41
<alkisg>
ltspuser_84:
18:41sligett has left IRC (sligett!~chatzilla@68-191-254-90.static.oxfr.ma.charter.com, Remote host closed the connection)
18:41
<ltspuser_07>
by the way...I tried the "/nick" thing and it won't change for me
18:41
<alkisg>
try X_VIRTUAL="3600 1200"
18:41
in lts.conf
18:41
That should fix it
18:41
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_07: that's left as an excercise for the reader ...
18:41
ltspuser_07: read up on initramfs-tools
18:42
ltspuser_07: man initramfs-tools
18:42
<ltspuser_84>
ok thank i try
18:42
<ltspuser_07>
vagrantc: Alright....thanks for all the help!
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18:43
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_07: the tricky part will be that the initramfs is a very limited environment ...
18:43
ltspuser_07: but basically you'll need to set up some hooks and scripts for building the initramfs with all the stuff you want.
18:43ltspuser_33 has joined IRC (ltspuser_33!4fc8beaa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.200.190.170)
18:44
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_07: take a look at the stuff in /usr/share/initramfs-tools
18:44
ltspuser_07: hooks run when you create/update the initramfs, and scripts run when you boot to the initramfs
18:45
ltspuser_07: so you'll probably need a hook that copies the ovs binaries into the image, and a script that mangles your networking ;)
18:46ltspuser_84 has left IRC (ltspuser_84!4fc8beaa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.200.190.170, Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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19:08* vagrantc waves bye to all the web logins
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19:47
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: should i go ahead an upload libpam-sshauth 0.2 to debian experimental?
19:47
<sbalneav>
Absolutement!
19:50
<vagrantc>
ok, doing some minor packaging updates, but should be done soonish.
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20:08
<vagrantc>
heh. already having second thoughts about the whole debian dir in bzr thing...
20:09
means i have to fork if i want to update something in the debian dir after changes have been made upstream...
20:10
at which point i'd rather just merge upstream versions into a debian-only branch.
20:10
which would only be one-way merges.
20:11* vagrantc might just go ahead and delete that branch up there...
20:14* vagrantc blindly moves forward for now...
20:20
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: uploaded.
20:21
doh. forgot to update copyright years...
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21:26
<vagrantc>
hmmm... should update ltsp for squeeze-backports...
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22:08
<jammcq>
hello friends
22:10* vagrantc waves to jammcq
22:11
<jammcq>
hey vagrantc can you tell me which script makes the decision of whether to be a thin vs a fat client?
22:12
I'm guessing it looks to see if a window mgr is installed
22:21
<warren>
Enslaver: I don't see any fedora git pushes, still having trouble?
22:21
Enslaver: managed to get anything into ltsp-upstream?
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22:35
<ltspuser_88>
hello, is anybody have experience with thin client (alix or raspberry, or other), with flash player (hd) and playing mp4 (hd too) ?
22:40
<vagrantc>
jammcq: yes, it looks for /usr/share/xsessions these days
22:40
jammcq: there's also a check for ram
22:41
jammcq: in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/ltsp_config.d/20fatclients
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22:42
<vagrantc>
though we really should kill off ltsp_config.d and make most of those determinations in init-ltsp.d ...
22:43
well... i guess there are some run-time detection that could change between boot and initial invocation...
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22:44
<vagrantc>
ltspuser_88: multimedia on thin clients is not likely to work very well.
22:44
ltspuser_88: disabling security features with LTSP_DIRECTX=true can help, though the session is sniffable on the network.
22:45
ltspuser_88: but HD is going to be very challenging... it's a lot of bandwidth over the wire.
22:45
ltspuser_88: you'd have better luck with fatclients.
22:45
ltspuser_88: which ltsp can do...
22:48
<jammcq>
vagrantc: thanks
22:52
<ltspuser_88>
Ok, thanks, I'm on project which I'm limited on the total price, and I would like to test if the litle thin client which cpu 533mhz and 256Mb, but with a big serveur or cluster with 25-30 clients, if the network is not more than 100Mb per client it is not a problème.
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22:55
<alkisg>
vagrantc: btw have you seen https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/220460 ? They say the problem is intltool modifying (actually erasing) ldm.pot on build
22:55
So for the moment I've stopped automatic translation pushes, we can do that manually when we want to,
22:55
but it'd be nice if someone knowing about intltool could fix it
23:00
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i don't really know much about it, but yeah, i've always worked around that issue manually.
23:01
<alkisg>
So if someone wants updated translations he can ping me one day before tagging to temporarily enable translation commits
23:01
<vagrantc>
alkisg: actually, what exactly is getting run by launchpad?
23:03
<alkisg>
I don't know the details... I imaging it's building it in order to have the translation templates generated, but our intltool script erases ldm.pot so it thinks it's getting modified on each build and pushes a new one in trunk
23:03
<vagrantc>
alkisg: if it's my regenerate-pot script ... it actually removes ldm.pot ...
23:03
<alkisg>
Could be
23:04
<vagrantc>
i think the problem i was having is i couldn't figure out how to force it to update without removing the existing .pot
23:04
in fact, no matter how out of date it was, it wouldn't update.
23:05
<alkisg>
vagrantc: can't we do that manually when we want to update the .pot?
23:05
Does it have to be part of the build process?
23:05
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i didn't think it was part of the build process...
23:05
<alkisg>
debuild -b -tc does delete ldm.pot
23:05
<vagrantc>
i've been doing it manually for years...
23:05
<jammcq>
when using KIOSK mode, does that imply fat-client?
23:06
<vagrantc>
jammcq: it's kind of different
23:06
<alkisg>
jammcq: depends on how you define fat, I'd say it's more of "localapps browser"
23:06
<jammcq>
here's what I want to do:
23:06
<alkisg>
But yeah it does run locally
23:06
<vagrantc>
i don't think it's really localapps browser either...
23:06
it doesn't mount the homedir, for example
23:06
<jammcq>
boot a thin client and have it come straight up to icewm, without a login. everything running on the thin client
23:06
so the only reason the server is there is to serve up the boot image
23:06
<vagrantc>
kiosk should be able to do that.
23:07
<jammcq>
any docs on configuring kiosk mode?
23:07
<alkisg>
do you want a local user or everything would run as root?
23:08
<jammcq>
I'd like the user to not be root
23:08
chrome doesn't like to run as root
23:08
<alkisg>
OK yeah then start with the kiosk
23:08* vagrantc rewrote a lot of the kiosk stuff not too long ago
23:08
<vagrantc>
you'd think i'd remember how to do it
23:08
<jammcq>
heh
23:09
is there a screen script I need to set to start kiosk mode?
23:09
i've been away from this stuff too damn long
23:09
<vagrantc>
jammcq: it's implemented as a screen script, so you should be able to specify SCREEN_07=kiosk
23:09
with some other stuff
23:09
<jammcq>
I found the kioskSession script and it's looking for things like KIOSK_WM, so that's easy enough
23:10
<alkisg>
KOIOSK_EXE, KIOSK_OPTIONS etc, check also /usr/share/ltsp/screen.d/kiosk
23:10
<vagrantc>
the screen script sets some defaults based on what it can find
23:12
i guess just for KIOSK_EXE
23:13
you could probably set KIOSK_EXE to /etc/X11/Xsession
23:13
jammcq: if you really just wanted a regular login.
23:13
<jammcq>
I don't want a login
23:14
<vagrantc>
i mean, a regular session
23:14
if you just want a browser, it should work fine.
23:15
<alkisg>
jammcq: just wondering, how much RAM do you expect the clients to have?
23:16
<vagrantc>
jammcq: basically, if you use kiosk mode the way kiosk mode is designed, when they exist the browser, the session logs out. but if you want the window manager to be what exits...
23:16
<jammcq>
the clients have 4GB of ram
23:16
well... the test one does anyway
23:17
<alkisg>
OK then you don't need NBD neither for swap nor for overlay :)
23:18
(assuming the user doesn't try to download a dvd :P)
23:19
<jammcq>
the user will be restricted to where they can browse
23:19
so i'm not worried about that
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23:26
<jammcq>
I'm getting a fatal server error when trying to launch X
23:26
"cannot open /var/log/Xorg.7.log"
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23:57
<jammcq>
vagrantc: it looks like the kiosk screen script is using 'su - ltspkiosk -c ... xinit ....'
23:58
xinit is supposed to launch the xserver
23:58
<vagrantc>
right
23:58
<jammcq>
but... the ltspkiosk user doesn't have permission to create the xorg.7.log file in /var/log
23:58
<vagrantc>
yeah, but the X server is setuid
23:58
<jammcq>
hmmm
23:58
<vagrantc>
unless something's changed...
23:58
<jammcq>
i'm looking
23:59
it is