IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 6 February 2013 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:09 | <warren> anyone know if/when nbd upstream broke compatibility with the "old way" of using it?
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| 04:37 | <cyberorg> warren, https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=776027
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| 06:05 | <warren> cyberorg: thanks
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| 06:05 | cyberorg: did they break the old way intentionally?
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| 06:08 | <cyberorg> warren, don't think so, just a brief response from the dev here https://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=29687242
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| 06:09 | <warren> cyberorg: what distro do you hack on
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| 06:09 | ?
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| 06:09 | <cyberorg> suse
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| 06:10 | <warren> cyberorg: so this was an issue because something didn't adapt to the new nbd?
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| 06:11 | hmm
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| 06:11 | I just realized upgrading nbd will break our initramfs nbd boot
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| 06:11 | and changing that will be impossible
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| 06:11 | <cyberorg> just nbd via xinetd is broken, standalone mode is fine so no big loss
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| 06:12 | <warren> we never used standalone here.
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| 06:13 | ooh
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| 06:13 | cyberorg: you mean the nbd-client is fine the old way?
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| 06:13 | <warren> without a label, just a ip address and port?
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| 06:13 | <cyberorg> yes, the working config is in that post ^^
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| 06:14 | <warren> cyberorg: I mean, using nbd-client in the 2.9.20 way works with 3.2?
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| 06:15 | <cyberorg> yes, see working example /etc/nbd-server/config posted
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| 06:15 | oldstyle = true
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| 06:15 | <warren> ahhhh
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| 06:15 | <cyberorg> unless that was also dropped recently
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| 06:16 | <warren> I think i'm going to recommend Fedora NOT upgrade beyond nbd-2.9.20 until they fix the xinetd issue.
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| 06:18 | <cyberorg> removing the requirement of different ports for each export is what is "fixed" in nbd by going named exports way
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| 06:19 | <warren> I know.
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| 06:19 | cyberorg: we can't upgrade nbd if it breaks other users of nbd though.
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| 06:20 | <work_alkisg> Name-based exports were implemented in 2.9.18, so 2.9.20 should be fine with them...
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| 06:21 | <cyberorg> doesn't matter either way, not updating nbd and using xinetd or updating nbd and using standalone mode with oldstyle
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| 06:22 | <warren> LTSP upstream supports both old and new for swap?
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| 06:22 | <alkisg> The swapping was always distro-depended afaik
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| 06:23 | ltsp-config now supports named swap
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| 06:26 | cat > "/etc/nbd-server/conf.d/swap.conf" <<EOF
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| 06:26 | [swap]
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| 06:26 | exportname = /tmp/nbd-swap/%s
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| 06:26 | prerun = nbdswapd %s
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| 06:26 | postrun = rm -f %s
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| 06:26 | authfile = /etc/ltsp/nbd-server.allow
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| 06:26 | EOF
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| 08:04 | <warren> alkisg: btw, I heard that you recommended to Enslaver that the rpm spec file should be maintained in ltsp upstream?
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| 08:06 | <alkisg> warren: I don't remember, but personally yeah I like it when upstream also contains distro-specific developement, packaging etc
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| 08:07 | <warren> alkisg: ok, I just wanted to explain that we can't do that
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| 08:07 | <alkisg> Why?
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| 08:07 | E.g. we can have shared translations this way
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| 08:07 | <warren> the spec file is tightly integrated with the distro, and develoeprs other than us could modify it at any time to better integration
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| 08:07 | <alkisg> Otherwise you'd have to provide for package translations on each separate distro
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| 08:07 | <warren> it is counter-productive to keep a copy elsewhere, as it will drift
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| 08:08 | we don't do that for any other package
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| 08:08 | <alkisg> warren: does the spec file contain translatable items?
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| 08:08 | <warren> it could, but generally nobody does
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| 08:09 | literally nobody
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| 08:09 | <alkisg> So the package descriptions are not translatable in .rpms?
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| 08:09 | <warren> they are
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| 08:09 | we just don't do it
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| 08:09 | <alkisg> OK
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| 08:09 | <warren> our goals are a bit different
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| 08:10 | we don't target end-users, and our goal is not popularity
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| 08:10 | Red Hat does keep on staff several translators of every language, mainly to translate the documentation.
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| 08:10 | and the customers are mainly business, who have rudimentary english
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| 08:11 | those customers never see the descriptions in packages anyway
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| 08:11 | (even the english descriptions)
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| 08:21 | <alkisg> I'd like it if we used the same package descriptions anyway, though
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| 08:22 | E.g. the description for ltsp-server, ltsp-client, whether those are in .deb or in .rpm
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| 08:23 | warren, cyberorg: btw if at some point in the future, ldm was rewritten in shell, and the greeter in python/gtk, would you guys object?
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| 08:25 | (we'll probably switch to lightdm though so it's possible that the ldm rewrite will never happen)
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| 08:26 | <cyberorg> alkisg, wasn't ldm2 rewritten in c for some reason? ldm used to be in python long time back
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| 08:27 | <alkisg> cyberorg: I've asked everyone and noone can tell me the reason though
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| 08:27 | vagrantc has heard something about security but I don't see it in the code and noone else has anything to say about it
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| 08:27 | <cyberorg> alkisg, performance, size, less deps, can't think of anything else
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| 08:28 | <alkisg> ldm.c vs ldm.sh ==> I believe the shell implementation will perform better, have smaller size, and less deps
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| 08:28 | About the greeter, sure, but that doesn't remain when the session starts
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| 08:28 | <cyberorg> if pam ssh thing works then it doesn't matter, any dm should work
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| 08:28 | <alkisg> So we don't care about performance or size there
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| 08:29 | cyberorg: the necessary hooks won't be available in other DMs
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| 08:29 | So while lightdm will probably work for the most part, the other DMs will lack many bits
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| 08:29 | It's like LTSP with KDE, ok it works but it has numerous problems
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| 08:32 | <cyberorg> personally I have no objection
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| 08:32 | <alkisg> OK, ty
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| 08:49 | <Hyperbyte> cyberorg, are you attending the LTSP developers meeting next monday?
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| 08:50 | <cyberorg> Hyperbyte, when, where?
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| 08:56 | <Hyperbyte> !meeting
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| 08:56 | <ltsp> meeting: http://wiki.ltsp.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Meeting:Upcoming
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| 09:08 | <cyberorg> just hold in in #ltsp, why #ltsp-meeting? there is not much traffic here anyway and most people including me lurk in this channel
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| 09:08 | <warren> why rewrite ldm?
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| 09:08 | ldm as is can't do something desired?
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| 09:09 | alkisg: cyberorg: "python" is an issue of size and dependencies
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| 09:09 | <cyberorg> warren, i mentioned that already
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| 09:10 | <warren> mentioned what?
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| 09:10 | <cyberorg> reasons for ldm in c "alkisg, performance, size, less deps, can't think of anything else"
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| 09:10 | <warren> oh
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| 09:10 | yes
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| 09:11 | why does alkisg want to reinvent ldm?
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| 09:11 | <alkisg> because it's broken and noone maintains it
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| 09:11 | We have no upstream C coders now
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| 09:11 | <warren> broken in what way?
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| 09:11 | <alkisg> Data loss
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| 09:11 | <warren> huh?
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| 09:11 | how so?
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| 09:11 | <alkisg> It removes sshfs before user processes finish
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| 09:11 | bbiab, doing some remote support...
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| 09:11 | <warren> How will another dm fix that problem?
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| 09:11 | <alkisg> We will be able to maintain it
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| 09:12 | <warren> not if we don't understand the cause of this bug
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| 09:12 | this sounds like a fixable problem
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| 09:12 | <alkisg> We do understand the cause
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| 09:12 | <warren> which is?
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| 09:12 | <alkisg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1093144
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| 09:15 | <warren> alkisg: "rewritten in shell" is not a solution
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| 09:15 | it sounds like we need an asynchronous daemon to proxy the ssh session
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| 09:16 | <alkisg> warren: it's not a solution to the sshfs problem, it's a solution to the "we have no C coders" problem
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| 09:16 | LDM has numerous other bugs
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| 09:16 | And no maintainer
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| 09:16 | So if we're to keep developing ltsp, we need someone that can maintain it, and be active
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| 09:17 | <warren> If you can demonstrate that the replacement is superior, the language doesn't matter.
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| 09:17 | that post alone doesn't describe how you will solve that problem
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| 09:17 | perhaps describe the design
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| 09:18 | <alkisg> warren: I don't want to demonstrate a solution to an sshfs problem... I want someone to demonstrate me a solution to the problem "how to maintain ldm.c without c coders"
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| 09:19 | ldm.c can very easily be reimplemented in shell
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| 09:19 | <alkisg> It doesn't have anything hard there
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| 09:19 | The greeter can stay in .C, if we don't want python,
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| 09:19 | <warren> will the latter solve the former problem?
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| 09:19 | <alkisg> Sure
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| 09:19 | We have capable shell coders that can solve it
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| 09:19 | <warren> ...
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| 09:20 | you sure shell won't expose secrets to the environment?
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| 09:20 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 09:20 | <markit> hi alkisg, not that I've much time for that, but we talked about italian translation of some web pages of epoptes site... I would like to do it for the installation one, so I avoid repeating suggestions in an italian mailing list I'm subscribed (me lazy ;P)
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| 09:20 | <alkisg> One way to get the secret from another process would be to malloc non-zeroed ram
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| 09:20 | That's still true for the current ssh.c
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| 09:20 | Other than that, yeah, no exposure
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| 09:21 | <warren> sigh
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| 09:21 | <alkisg> And with shell it'll be much easier to keep variables between the ldm-script phases
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| 09:21 | Which now in .c is not possible
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| 09:21 | <cyberorg> alkisg, i guess you can just get started and see where it goes, replacing/rewriting sounds scary, but if there is something working then most users wont care what it is written in
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| 09:22 | <warren> I'd say prove it.
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| 09:22 | but you haven't explained how you will solve the sshfs problem
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| 09:22 | that would be *hard* in any language
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| 09:22 | <alkisg> Running ldm outside X
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| 09:23 | <warren> ldm outside X will have the ssh session right?
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| 09:24 | can an existing ssh session be manipulated out-of-band to forward X?
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| 09:24 | <Hyperbyte> cyberorg, we hold meetings in #ltsp-meeting to not disturb this channel. Sure there's not -a lot- of traffic, but there are users coming here for support questions. It's not fair to turn those people away because we're having a meeting and don't want the extra traffic.
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| 09:26 | <cyberorg> Hyperbyte, this ongoing discussion here sounds like #ltsp-meeting to me :)
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| 09:26 | <warren> alkisg: replacement without solving any current problems isn't an improvement. In ordinary software, "Nobody knows C" is not a reason to throw out C. You find someone who knows C, or prove that the job can be done better in another language. Doing the job better includes fixing real problems.
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| 09:27 | <alkisg> (sorry about the late answers, multitasking too much...)
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| 09:28 | <warren> I think there's a way to solve this current sshfs problem by using two simultaneous ssh tunnels per ldm login. Part of the ldm does have to run out of X.
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| 09:28 | <alkisg> ldm.c has a loooot of code that just converts shell environment variables to c variables
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| 09:28 | <warren> There's no reason why sshfs need be on the same ssh session as X.
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| 09:29 | <alkisg> It doesn't have any real reason to be in .C, while the rest of the framework is in shell
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| 09:29 | <elias_a> Now this is serious discussion.
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| 09:29 | <alkisg> If the rest of ltsp was in .C, sure, finding another C coder would be the way to go
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| 09:29 | But now we put a bar to how long ltsp can be maintained without real reason
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| 09:29 | That's true for getltscfg as well
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| 09:30 | <warren> C really isn't THAT hard
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| 09:30 | <alkisg> For the solution, we need the following:
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| 09:30 | <warren> C does exactly what you tell it to do
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| 09:30 | <alkisg> glib is a whole new api that someone must learn
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| 09:30 | A process running outside X, let's call that ldm
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| 09:30 | A greeter running inside X
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| 09:30 | The greeter to pass the username/password to ldm
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| 09:31 | And ldm to fire up the login process, be it ssh, rdp, whatever
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| 09:31 | After X exits or crashes, ldm should cleanup while the sshfs socket is still active
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| 09:31 | All those except for the greeter can be done in any language
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| 09:31 | <warren> OK, I say prove it.
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| 09:32 | <alkisg> Sure I can prove it, that's why I'm asking if you people would object
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| 09:32 | <warren> So wait ... who is still here?
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| 09:32 | <alkisg> I'm not yet sure though if that, or lightdm, is where I'd want to spend my limited time
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| 09:32 | <warren> developers that is
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| 09:32 | <alkisg> me, knipwim and vagrantc
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| 09:32 | The others rarely commit stuff
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| 09:32 | <warren> whatever happened to ryan52?
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| 09:33 | <alkisg> Haven't heard of him in 2 years
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| 09:33 | <warren> I'm guessing he either has a PhD by now
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| 09:33 | or he's in prison for hacking
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| 09:33 | or both
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| 09:33 | <alkisg> Hehe
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| 09:34 | <warren> ok... I can see without ogra or ryan52 this is a problem
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| 09:34 | doesn't jammcq know C?
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| 09:34 | <alkisg> stgraber rewrote ldm to a plugins style
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| 09:34 | So that added complexity without real benefits
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| 09:34 | <warren> you folks sure like plugins
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| 09:35 | <alkisg> One persons that knows C and glib would need about a week to learn the insides of ldm
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| 09:35 | While in shell, the entry curve would be a couple of hours
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| 09:35 | Btw /me does know C but not glib
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| 09:35 | <warren> how much glib does it actually use?
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| 09:36 | we could get rid of the dep
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| 09:36 | <alkisg> It's all different, string handling, memory allocation...
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| 09:36 | <warren> by shell, do you mean dash?
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| 09:36 | or bash?
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| 09:36 | <alkisg> Even data types have g* in front
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| 09:36 | posh
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| 09:36 | We try to keep posix compliant
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| 09:37 | <warren> If you want to go ahead with this plan, please do it in a fork, and demonstrate that it is functionally equivalent and solves the sshfs problem.
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| 09:37 | <elias_a> Which is nice, isn't it?
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| 09:37 | Posix compliance, I meant.
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| 09:38 | <warren> OTOH, I really shouldn't be putting my time into this. I don't really believe LTSP has a future anymore.
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| 09:38 | VDI and Chromebook-style apps in the cloud are taking over.
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| 09:39 | and LTSP lost the cost advantage years ago
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| 09:39 | <alkisg> warren: http://www.ltsp.org/stories/widget-map/?location=Greece
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| 09:39 | 400 schools so far, for the cost and other benefits
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| 09:39 | None of them would be interested in local linux installations
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| 09:39 | <warren> alkisg: I'm putting in enough time to help Enslaver formalize current LTSP-tech in EL-6, our LTS distribution
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| 09:40 | with ~7 years remaining in maintenance
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| 09:40 | <alkisg> elias_a: posix compliance is nice when it still gets the job done
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| 09:40 | warren: sure, I'm not asking you for ltsp time
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| 09:40 | I just believe ltsp has a future
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| 09:40 | Even if for fat clients only
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| 09:40 | <elias_a> Second that.
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| 09:41 | <alkisg> I don't know if it'll be worth it in the future to work on ltsp, or to reimplement it from scratch, but I believe netbooting is the way to go for schools
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| 09:41 | <elias_a> Solely in Finland abt 34 000 school users
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| 09:41 | <warren> VDI and Cloud-based HTML5 apps have equal or less cost, and they are a lot more robust to network disruptions than LTSP.
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| 09:41 | VDI can be netbooted too.
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| 09:41 | <alkisg> vdi won't work with Piii / 128 RAM
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| 09:42 | <warren> true
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| 09:42 | * markit has 640kbit internet connection in two of his schools, no "cloud" possible here | |
| 09:42 | <warren> alkisg: OTOH Google is getting Chromebooks into schools at $100 each.
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| 09:42 | <elias_a> warren: How do you give a student a VDI based access to school system?
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| 09:43 | <warren> I rather not argue. LTSP has important uses in the next decade.
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| 09:43 | <elias_a> warren: How do they authenticate before booting or even after that?
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| 09:43 | <warren> Just its cost benefits have largely disappeared.
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| 09:43 | <alkisg> Also html5 apps won't quickly replace the 50+ gb of greek educational software we have to use here
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| 09:43 | <warren> agreed
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| 09:43 | <elias_a> warren: Google is not an option in civilized world.
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| 09:44 | <warren> OK, we clearly disagree, that's fine.
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| 09:44 | <alkisg> We evaluated many many types of remote solutions, ltsp was the only one that actually work
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| 09:44 | <warren> Hey, I'm helping a little on LTSP in the next few weeks.
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| 09:44 | <alkisg> We also have papers with the results, although in greek
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| 09:44 | <elias_a> warren: Thank you for your help.
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| 09:45 | <MastaaK> Hi, I've got an LTSP server with an LDAP authentification, but for my first login that doesn't create a new folder, I already add "session required pam_mkhomedir.so skel=/etc/skel/ umask=0077" to pam.d files and I already have edit my nslcd.conf ....
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| 09:45 | Did you have any idea? I've already check in the skel folder and I have "examples.desktop"
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| 09:46 | <elias_a> warren: The reason for me to beg for you to support LTSP is that IMHO with LTSP many things are done that could not be done with other tools.
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| 09:46 | <warren> elias_a: I disagree with that as a conclusory statement. that being said I'm still willing to help.
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| 09:47 | <elias_a> warren: I am in a position there I should know something about it.
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| 09:47 | <warren> EL-6 will probably be Fedora's last LTSP version.
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| 09:47 | Or at least I won't invest more time into it
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| 09:48 | <elias_a> warren: I am a bit slow today, sorry about that.
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| 09:48 | <warren> elias_a: let's put this another way, even at the peak of LTSP there wasn't a market to sustain even minimal commercial development
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| 09:48 | now we are well past the peak
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| 09:49 | <elias_a> warren: Oh, really?
| |
| 09:49 | <warren> Other solutions have reduced in cost, do a lot more, and are robust against network disruptions. LTSP really sucks at the last part.
| |
| 09:49 | <elias_a> warren: You got that part right.
| |
| 09:49 | <markit> alkisg: (just to notify you) https://bugs.launchpad.net/epoptes/+bug/1117158
| |
| 09:50 | <elias_a> warren: But what exactly are these other solutions?
| |
| 09:50 | <warren> elias_a: ogra used to be dedicated at Canonical to making a paid supported LTSP solution in Ubuntu
| |
| 09:50 | elias_a: I tried to make LTSP paid-supported from RHEL
| |
| 09:50 | <elias_a> warren: Ok. Now I see your point.
| |
| 09:51 | <warren> Now after the commercial companies have moved on, LTSP is so starving for developers that it can't even maintain a tiny C app
| |
| 09:51 | <elias_a> warren: The situation looks a bit different seen from Finland.
| |
| 09:51 | It is sad vmlintu is not onlin.
| |
| 09:51 | +e
| |
| 09:52 | <warren> elias_a: believe me, I've put years of my life into LTSP
| |
| 09:52 | elias_a: fedora exists *because* of LTSP
| |
| 09:52 | <elias_a> Their company is doing AFAIK ok in Finland.
| |
| 09:52 | <warren> elias_a: yeah, there have been regional LTSP-based service providers
| |
| 09:53 | <alkisg> LTSP when used for redeploying old computers has no commercial target except maybe for paid support. But it can still be a very good open source project backed up by non-commercial institutions
| |
| 09:53 | <warren> elias_a: that doesn't solve the problem though that LTSP still is insecure by default and cannot handle network disruption
| |
| 09:53 | <elias_a> warren: But tell me about your vision! What is the alternative?
| |
| 09:53 | <alkisg> markit: ty - but I get notifications, no worries :)
| |
| 09:54 | <elias_a> warren: Actually standalone PCs are not that useful w/o network resources today....
| |
| 09:54 | <warren> elias_a: In the long-long-long term, I think Google has the right idea. The Chromebooks are intended to be interchangeable and stateless. All data that matters is online. You login from any machine. If your computer dies or network fails, all your data is protected.
| |
| 09:55 | elias_a: intermittent network is fine with Cloud-based apps and storage
| |
| 09:55 | Chromebooks can operate offline until you synchronize with the cloud the next time your internet works.
| |
| 09:55 | <elias_a> warren: Yep. As long as we are able to do it in Europe.
| |
| 09:55 | <alkisg> In the long-long term the software will be rewritten based on the cloud idea, so yeah the local OS won't matter much then... But /me bets that's no less than 10 years away here
| |
| 09:55 | <warren> At that point I can smash the Chromebook and login from another.
| |
| 09:56 | I'm not saying Chromebooks are the solution
| |
| 09:56 | sometihng like it
| |
| 09:56 | <elias_a> warren: Past news indicate there is no real reason to trust US anymore no matter what the subject is.
| |
| 09:56 | warren: Ok. Got your point.
| |
| 09:57 | <warren> not to mention the old hardware that you recycle for LTSP thin clients burn a LOT more power than chromebooks
| |
| 09:57 | like 20 to 1 ratio
| |
| 09:57 | assuming you have LCD monitors
| |
| 09:57 | <elias_a> How much is a chromebook?
| |
| 09:57 | <warren> $200 retail minimum right now, $100 for schools
| |
| 09:59 | Let's make LTSP as good as we can right now.
| |
| 09:59 | <elias_a> Yep.
| |
| 09:59 | <warren> I'm just saying LTSP has a decade sunset remaining.
| |
| 09:59 | <elias_a> warren: I believe you.
| |
| 09:59 | <alkisg> Linux DEs too ...
| |
| 09:59 | <elias_a> warren: Where do you live?
| |
| 10:00 | <warren> Hawaii
| |
| 10:00 | alkisg: all DE's ...
| |
| 10:01 | <elias_a> warren: My message is: people are getting suspicious about cloud services because of US legislation and practices.
| |
| 10:01 | I am talking about discussion hitting regular newspapers, not just nerds.
| |
| 10:02 | <alkisg> That can be prototyped by some formal encryption service
| |
| 10:02 | <warren> like MEGA? =)
| |
| 10:03 | elias_a: It is tenuous to accuse other solutions of privacy and security problems when LTSP is insecure by default.
| |
| 10:03 | <elias_a> warren: If you are US citizen, please do something about the reckless behaviour of your legislators and intelligence.
| |
| 10:03 | * alkisg has never even heard of the MEGA service, so no idea there.... what I'm saying is that it's possible to be certain, client side, that the server doesn't know your data contents | |
| 10:03 | <warren> elias_a: we did. Then he stabbed us in the back...
| |
| 10:03 | <elias_a> warren: Who did?
| |
| 10:04 | <warren> alkisg: yeah, that's the idea behind MEGA and a few other recent services.
| |
| 10:05 | alkisg: and while Google can be problematic in privacy due to their power, they too have options to store certain data in their Cloud where encryption is done client-side
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| 10:14 | <elias_a> warren: Who did stab you?
| |
| 10:15 | <warren> (not obvious?)
| |
| 10:16 | <elias_a> warren: I do not follow you.
| |
| 10:16 | <warren> sorry
| |
| 10:16 | I better sleep
| |
| 10:16 | <elias_a> warren: Thanks for your time!
| |
| 10:17 | warren: And sorry to be a bit offensive.
| |
| 10:17 | warren: Trying to build a better world here...
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| 10:33 | <Hyperbyte> elias_a, I believe Warren was making a joke. :)
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| 10:39 | <markit> Hyperbyte: hi, we talked some days ago and I cited you that I was using apt-cacher-ng while you are using a different one, but can't remember which one... can you refresh my memory please?
| |
| 10:46 | <elias_a> Hyperbyte: Ok. The stuff done in US is no joke to me.
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| 10:46 | Actually it is warfare in my eyes.
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| 10:58 | <Hyperbyte> markit, I'm pretty sure you have the wrong person. I have no idea what apt-cacher-ng is.
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| 10:59 | elias_a, if you think it's forbidden to joke in dire situations, I pity you.
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| 10:59 | <markit> Hyperbyte: was a discussion about squid, and as far as I remember, you told me you don't use and use something to cache .debs
| |
| 10:59 | but yes, I could be wrong
| |
| 10:59 | <Hyperbyte> markit, I have quite unlimited and fast internet here. No need to cache .debs.
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| 11:00 | <markit> Hyperbyte: ohhhh
| |
| 11:00 | I do strongly need not to take hours in ltsp server installations
| |
| 11:00 | <Hyperbyte> I do use squid, however.
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| 11:00 | <markit> btw, how fast is it your internet connection? mine 7mb/s at best
| |
| 11:01 | and how much do you spend montly? (me about 20 euros -> 26 $)
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| 11:23 | <warren> hmm
| |
| 11:23 | what happened to bzr-gtk?
| |
| 11:23 | * warren hasn't used bzr in almost 2 years | |
| 11:23 | <warren> was bzr-gtk replaced by something?
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| 11:27 | <alkisg> !test
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| 11:27 | <ltsp> test: ~alkisg alkisg #ltsp $CHAN
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| 11:27 | <alkisg> !nomodeset
| |
| 11:27 | <ltsp> nomodeset: Unfortunately, Kernel Mode Setting (KMS) doesn't work well with some cards. To disable it, open /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default and replace "quiet splash" with "nomodeset".
| |
| 11:27 | <warren> nomodeset *breaks* other X drivers
| |
| 11:28 | * alkisg was just testing the bot | |
| 11:28 | <alkisg> markit: you were talking with vagrantc
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| 11:28 | <markit> alkisg: oh, thanks, lol
| |
| 11:29 | with apt-cacher-ng I have a lot of issues about corrupted bzip2 with apt-get update
| |
| 11:30 | <alkisg> There was a modified version of squid for package caching in the ubuntu archives
| |
| 11:30 | * alkisg hasn't used any of those, no need for caching .deb packages with ltsp | |
| 11:30 | <alkisg> markit: you do know you can just copy the .debs from/to /var/cache/apt/archives, right?
| |
| 11:35 | <elias_a> Hyperbyte: I don't mind joking. The problem is I did not understand the joke.
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| 11:36 | Hyperbyte: A very dysfunctional joke IMHO.
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| 11:53 | <meamy> hi all. witch scripte determine that the cluster client is configured and set CULSTER_CONFIGURED to true? Or did i just have to do this my self by writing it in to the lts.conf ?
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| 12:02 | neto is now known as NetoAtaides | |
| 12:03 | <NetoAtaides> hello
| |
| 12:04 | does anyone know why the users I create by hand cannot login in graphics mode?
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| 12:04 | they do login in command line mode
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| 12:06 | I'm using ubuntu server
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| 12:13 | <Hyperbyte> elias_a, lighten up!
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| 12:13 | NetoAtaides, where are you creating the users?
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| 12:13 | NetoAtaides, inside the LTSP client chroot, or on the server?
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| 12:19 | !users
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| 12:19 | <ltsp> users: LTSP users for graphical login should be created on the server itself, NOT inside the client chroot. LTSP clients connect to the server to verify user credentials, they should not hold any user information themselves as this is very insecure.
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| 12:28 | <elias_a> Hyperbyte: I do not know how to lighten up if I do not get any hints on that someone is joking.
| |
| 12:29 | <ltspuser_14> Hi, is there a way to publish applications with LSTP as well?
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| 12:29 | <elias_a> Hyperbyte: I am not that much into angloamerican culture that I would automagically recognize such hints.
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| 12:47 | <NetoAtaides> sorry...I'm creating the users in the server
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| 12:47 | in the future I'll want to use LDAP
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| 12:50 | I'm using useradd to create the users
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| 12:50 | do they need any given permission to access the X server?
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| 13:04 | <Hyperbyte> NetoAtaides, no. I'm confused.
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| 13:04 | You're saying they can login in "command line mode". How, what, where? Command line mode on the client?
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| 13:05 | elias_a, in general, lighten up. :)
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| 13:09 | <NetoAtaides> yeah...in the client they can login in command line mode, but not via X
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| 13:22 | <NetoAtaides> Does anyone know where the error logs are?
| |
| 13:23 | Cause I can't find the logs for the login error
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| 13:47 | <elias_a> Hyperbyte: I probably would if I knew how to. And especially why.
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| 13:48 | Hyperbyte: Until then I just have to wonder what is it I lack. :P
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| 14:52 | <meamy> NetoAtaides: There are logs for ldm at /var/log/ldm.log also you can search for X related error logs in /home/(user)/.xsession-errors or in /var/log/Xorg.7.log
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| 15:51 | <Silicium> hi there
| |
| 15:52 | quick question, just for evaluation reason
| |
| 15:53 | i'am just nerved of shutdown my notebook every evening at work and loosing all my "work"
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| 15:53 | i mean, session
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| 15:53 | <jammcq> huh?
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| 15:53 | <Silicium> but i need the notebook also for private so i would like to put the work part to a ltsp system
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| 15:53 | which i can connect to when iam at work
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| 15:54 | and with it dont loosing the session but just reconnect
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| 15:54 | <jammcq> you have a netbook that you want to use as a thin client during the day, while at work, and then use it as a netbook at night ?
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| 15:54 | <Silicium> but whats about multihead? does that work well? iam currently using debian 6 with dualhead and one of them is rotated 45% (for coding)
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| 15:54 | notebook
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| 15:54 | yes
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| 15:55 | important question is dualhead
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| 15:55 | <jammcq> hmm, dunno about multi-head. I've not done it with ltsp
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| 15:55 | others have
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| 15:55 | <Silicium> others sounds good
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| 15:55 | how does ltsp work in fact? X forwarding?
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| 15:55 | <jammcq> X over SSH
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| 15:56 | <Silicium> ok, great, then multihead will work :)
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| 15:56 | and its possible to disconnect a session, reboot the thin client and login into the same session with the same state again, right?
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| 15:56 | <jammcq> no
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| 15:57 | it would be a new session
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| 15:57 | unless you are using something like VNC or NoMachine, but that's not LTSP
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| 15:58 | <Silicium> ok then its useless
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| 15:58 | for me
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| 15:59 | <jammcq> why do you want to leave your session running?
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| 15:59 | <Silicium> in fact i search for a way to detach an X11 window from the xclient and attach it again later
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| 15:59 | i have tons of IDE windows debugging stuff etc running
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| 15:59 | and i just let the notebook at work because i dont want to restart all the tools every morning again
| |
| 16:01 | oh, i want xpra
| |
| 16:01 | "So basically it's screen for remote X apps.
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| 16:01 | "
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| 16:10 | <markit> Silicium: maybe x2go could help too
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| 17:07 | <||cw> well, you can use ltsp to make a thin client that connects to vnc or nx
| |
| 17:08 | but yeah, I don't think ltsp will do what Silicium wants
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| 17:13 | <lotharn> anyone in here know how to install drivers on a wyse?
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| 17:27 | <alkisg> Is there anything special about wyse vs installing drivers in other machines?
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| 18:54 | <lotharn> anyone wanna point me to the basics for wyse terminal management?
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| 19:04 | <alkisg> lotharn: are wyse terminals different than other terminals?
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| 19:04 | <lotharn> alkisg: sorta
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| 19:04 | <alkisg> Why are you asking about specific models instead of just mentioning whatever problems you have?
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| 19:04 | E.g. some people might know the solution, but not know anything about wyse terms..
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| 19:05 | <lotharn> i need to install drivers on wince for these terminals
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| 19:05 | <alkisg> Windows CE?
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| 19:05 | <lotharn> but i'm new to the format of these devices
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| 19:05 | yesa
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| 19:06 | <alkisg> You are in the #ltsp channel... why do you expect people here to know about windows?
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| 19:06 | Why not ask in #windows or some other more appropriate channel?
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| 19:06 | <lotharn> im asking in several channels
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| 19:06 | <alkisg> ltsp == LINUX terminal server project
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| 19:06 | So don't expect people here to know about wince...
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| 19:07 | We didn't even understand you were asking about windows
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| 19:07 | <lotharn> thanks
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| 19:07 | i'm really not
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| 19:07 | <elias_a> what?
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