IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 6 February 2013   (all times are UTC)

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02:09
<warren>
anyone know if/when nbd upstream broke compatibility with the "old way" of using it?
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04:37
<cyberorg>
warren, https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=776027
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06:05
<warren>
cyberorg: thanks
06:05
cyberorg: did they break the old way intentionally?
06:08
<cyberorg>
warren, don't think so, just a brief response from the dev here https://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=29687242
06:09
<warren>
cyberorg: what distro do you hack on
06:09
?
06:09
<cyberorg>
suse
06:10
<warren>
cyberorg: so this was an issue because something didn't adapt to the new nbd?
06:11
hmm
06:11
I just realized upgrading nbd will break our initramfs nbd boot
06:11
and changing that will be impossible
06:11
<cyberorg>
just nbd via xinetd is broken, standalone mode is fine so no big loss
06:12work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
06:12
<warren>
we never used standalone here.
06:13
ooh
06:13
cyberorg: you mean the nbd-client is fine the old way?
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06:13
<warren>
without a label, just a ip address and port?
06:13
<cyberorg>
yes, the working config is in that post ^^
06:14
<warren>
cyberorg: I mean, using nbd-client in the 2.9.20 way works with 3.2?
06:15
<cyberorg>
yes, see working example /etc/nbd-server/config posted
06:15
oldstyle = true
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06:15
<warren>
ahhhh
06:15
<cyberorg>
unless that was also dropped recently
06:16
<warren>
I think i'm going to recommend Fedora NOT upgrade beyond nbd-2.9.20 until they fix the xinetd issue.
06:18
<cyberorg>
removing the requirement of different ports for each export is what is "fixed" in nbd by going named exports way
06:19
<warren>
I know.
06:19
cyberorg: we can't upgrade nbd if it breaks other users of nbd though.
06:20
<work_alkisg>
Name-based exports were implemented in 2.9.18, so 2.9.20 should be fine with them...
06:20work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
06:21
<cyberorg>
doesn't matter either way, not updating nbd and using xinetd or updating nbd and using standalone mode with oldstyle
06:22
<warren>
LTSP upstream supports both old and new for swap?
06:22
<alkisg>
The swapping was always distro-depended afaik
06:23
ltsp-config now supports named swap
06:26
cat > "/etc/nbd-server/conf.d/swap.conf" <<EOF
06:26
[swap]
06:26
exportname = /tmp/nbd-swap/%s
06:26
prerun = nbdswapd %s
06:26
postrun = rm -f %s
06:26
authfile = /etc/ltsp/nbd-server.allow
06:26
EOF
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08:04
<warren>
alkisg: btw, I heard that you recommended to Enslaver that the rpm spec file should be maintained in ltsp upstream?
08:06
<alkisg>
warren: I don't remember, but personally yeah I like it when upstream also contains distro-specific developement, packaging etc
08:07
<warren>
alkisg: ok, I just wanted to explain that we can't do that
08:07
<alkisg>
Why?
08:07
E.g. we can have shared translations this way
08:07
<warren>
the spec file is tightly integrated with the distro, and develoeprs other than us could modify it at any time to better integration
08:07
<alkisg>
Otherwise you'd have to provide for package translations on each separate distro
08:07
<warren>
it is counter-productive to keep a copy elsewhere, as it will drift
08:08
we don't do that for any other package
08:08
<alkisg>
warren: does the spec file contain translatable items?
08:08
<warren>
it could, but generally nobody does
08:09
literally nobody
08:09
<alkisg>
So the package descriptions are not translatable in .rpms?
08:09
<warren>
they are
08:09
we just don't do it
08:09
<alkisg>
OK
08:09
<warren>
our goals are a bit different
08:10
we don't target end-users, and our goal is not popularity
08:10
Red Hat does keep on staff several translators of every language, mainly to translate the documentation.
08:10
and the customers are mainly business, who have rudimentary english
08:11
those customers never see the descriptions in packages anyway
08:11
(even the english descriptions)
08:21
<alkisg>
I'd like it if we used the same package descriptions anyway, though
08:22
E.g. the description for ltsp-server, ltsp-client, whether those are in .deb or in .rpm
08:23
warren, cyberorg: btw if at some point in the future, ldm was rewritten in shell, and the greeter in python/gtk, would you guys object?
08:25
(we'll probably switch to lightdm though so it's possible that the ldm rewrite will never happen)
08:26
<cyberorg>
alkisg, wasn't ldm2 rewritten in c for some reason? ldm used to be in python long time back
08:27
<alkisg>
cyberorg: I've asked everyone and noone can tell me the reason though
08:27
vagrantc has heard something about security but I don't see it in the code and noone else has anything to say about it
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08:27
<cyberorg>
alkisg, performance, size, less deps, can't think of anything else
08:28
<alkisg>
ldm.c vs ldm.sh ==> I believe the shell implementation will perform better, have smaller size, and less deps
08:28
About the greeter, sure, but that doesn't remain when the session starts
08:28
<cyberorg>
if pam ssh thing works then it doesn't matter, any dm should work
08:28
<alkisg>
So we don't care about performance or size there
08:29
cyberorg: the necessary hooks won't be available in other DMs
08:29
So while lightdm will probably work for the most part, the other DMs will lack many bits
08:29
It's like LTSP with KDE, ok it works but it has numerous problems
08:32
<cyberorg>
personally I have no objection
08:32
<alkisg>
OK, ty
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08:49
<Hyperbyte>
cyberorg, are you attending the LTSP developers meeting next monday?
08:50
<cyberorg>
Hyperbyte, when, where?
08:56
<Hyperbyte>
!meeting
08:56
<ltsp>
meeting: http://wiki.ltsp.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Meeting:Upcoming
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09:08
<cyberorg>
just hold in in #ltsp, why #ltsp-meeting? there is not much traffic here anyway and most people including me lurk in this channel
09:08
<warren>
why rewrite ldm?
09:08
ldm as is can't do something desired?
09:09
alkisg: cyberorg: "python" is an issue of size and dependencies
09:09
<cyberorg>
warren, i mentioned that already
09:10
<warren>
mentioned what?
09:10
<cyberorg>
reasons for ldm in c "alkisg, performance, size, less deps, can't think of anything else"
09:10
<warren>
oh
09:10
yes
09:11
why does alkisg want to reinvent ldm?
09:11
<alkisg>
because it's broken and noone maintains it
09:11
We have no upstream C coders now
09:11
<warren>
broken in what way?
09:11
<alkisg>
Data loss
09:11
<warren>
huh?
09:11
how so?
09:11
<alkisg>
It removes sshfs before user processes finish
09:11
bbiab, doing some remote support...
09:11
<warren>
How will another dm fix that problem?
09:11
<alkisg>
We will be able to maintain it
09:12
<warren>
not if we don't understand the cause of this bug
09:12
this sounds like a fixable problem
09:12
<alkisg>
We do understand the cause
09:12
<warren>
which is?
09:12
<alkisg>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1093144
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09:15
<warren>
alkisg: "rewritten in shell" is not a solution
09:15
it sounds like we need an asynchronous daemon to proxy the ssh session
09:16
<alkisg>
warren: it's not a solution to the sshfs problem, it's a solution to the "we have no C coders" problem
09:16
LDM has numerous other bugs
09:16
And no maintainer
09:16
So if we're to keep developing ltsp, we need someone that can maintain it, and be active
09:17
<warren>
If you can demonstrate that the replacement is superior, the language doesn't matter.
09:17
that post alone doesn't describe how you will solve that problem
09:17
perhaps describe the design
09:18
<alkisg>
warren: I don't want to demonstrate a solution to an sshfs problem... I want someone to demonstrate me a solution to the problem "how to maintain ldm.c without c coders"
09:19
ldm.c can very easily be reimplemented in shell
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09:19
<alkisg>
It doesn't have anything hard there
09:19
The greeter can stay in .C, if we don't want python,
09:19
<warren>
will the latter solve the former problem?
09:19
<alkisg>
Sure
09:19
We have capable shell coders that can solve it
09:19
<warren>
...
09:20
you sure shell won't expose secrets to the environment?
09:20
<alkisg>
Yup
09:20
<markit>
hi alkisg, not that I've much time for that, but we talked about italian translation of some web pages of epoptes site... I would like to do it for the installation one, so I avoid repeating suggestions in an italian mailing list I'm subscribed (me lazy ;P)
09:20
<alkisg>
One way to get the secret from another process would be to malloc non-zeroed ram
09:20
That's still true for the current ssh.c
09:20
Other than that, yeah, no exposure
09:21
<warren>
sigh
09:21
<alkisg>
And with shell it'll be much easier to keep variables between the ldm-script phases
09:21
Which now in .c is not possible
09:21
<cyberorg>
alkisg, i guess you can just get started and see where it goes, replacing/rewriting sounds scary, but if there is something working then most users wont care what it is written in
09:22
<warren>
I'd say prove it.
09:22
but you haven't explained how you will solve the sshfs problem
09:22
that would be *hard* in any language
09:22
<alkisg>
Running ldm outside X
09:23
<warren>
ldm outside X will have the ssh session right?
09:24
can an existing ssh session be manipulated out-of-band to forward X?
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09:24
<Hyperbyte>
cyberorg, we hold meetings in #ltsp-meeting to not disturb this channel. Sure there's not -a lot- of traffic, but there are users coming here for support questions. It's not fair to turn those people away because we're having a meeting and don't want the extra traffic.
09:26
<cyberorg>
Hyperbyte, this ongoing discussion here sounds like #ltsp-meeting to me :)
09:26
<warren>
alkisg: replacement without solving any current problems isn't an improvement. In ordinary software, "Nobody knows C" is not a reason to throw out C. You find someone who knows C, or prove that the job can be done better in another language. Doing the job better includes fixing real problems.
09:27
<alkisg>
(sorry about the late answers, multitasking too much...)
09:28
<warren>
I think there's a way to solve this current sshfs problem by using two simultaneous ssh tunnels per ldm login. Part of the ldm does have to run out of X.
09:28
<alkisg>
ldm.c has a loooot of code that just converts shell environment variables to c variables
09:28
<warren>
There's no reason why sshfs need be on the same ssh session as X.
09:29
<alkisg>
It doesn't have any real reason to be in .C, while the rest of the framework is in shell
09:29
<elias_a>
Now this is serious discussion.
09:29
<alkisg>
If the rest of ltsp was in .C, sure, finding another C coder would be the way to go
09:29
But now we put a bar to how long ltsp can be maintained without real reason
09:29
That's true for getltscfg as well
09:30
<warren>
C really isn't THAT hard
09:30
<alkisg>
For the solution, we need the following:
09:30
<warren>
C does exactly what you tell it to do
09:30
<alkisg>
glib is a whole new api that someone must learn
09:30
A process running outside X, let's call that ldm
09:30
A greeter running inside X
09:30
The greeter to pass the username/password to ldm
09:31
And ldm to fire up the login process, be it ssh, rdp, whatever
09:31
After X exits or crashes, ldm should cleanup while the sshfs socket is still active
09:31
All those except for the greeter can be done in any language
09:31
<warren>
OK, I say prove it.
09:32
<alkisg>
Sure I can prove it, that's why I'm asking if you people would object
09:32
<warren>
So wait ... who is still here?
09:32
<alkisg>
I'm not yet sure though if that, or lightdm, is where I'd want to spend my limited time
09:32
<warren>
developers that is
09:32
<alkisg>
me, knipwim and vagrantc
09:32
The others rarely commit stuff
09:32
<warren>
whatever happened to ryan52?
09:33
<alkisg>
Haven't heard of him in 2 years
09:33
<warren>
I'm guessing he either has a PhD by now
09:33
or he's in prison for hacking
09:33
or both
09:33
<alkisg>
Hehe
09:34
<warren>
ok... I can see without ogra or ryan52 this is a problem
09:34
doesn't jammcq know C?
09:34
<alkisg>
stgraber rewrote ldm to a plugins style
09:34
So that added complexity without real benefits
09:34
<warren>
you folks sure like plugins
09:35
<alkisg>
One persons that knows C and glib would need about a week to learn the insides of ldm
09:35
While in shell, the entry curve would be a couple of hours
09:35
Btw /me does know C but not glib
09:35
<warren>
how much glib does it actually use?
09:36
we could get rid of the dep
09:36
<alkisg>
It's all different, string handling, memory allocation...
09:36
<warren>
by shell, do you mean dash?
09:36
or bash?
09:36
<alkisg>
Even data types have g* in front
09:36
posh
09:36
We try to keep posix compliant
09:37
<warren>
If you want to go ahead with this plan, please do it in a fork, and demonstrate that it is functionally equivalent and solves the sshfs problem.
09:37
<elias_a>
Which is nice, isn't it?
09:37
Posix compliance, I meant.
09:38
<warren>
OTOH, I really shouldn't be putting my time into this. I don't really believe LTSP has a future anymore.
09:38
VDI and Chromebook-style apps in the cloud are taking over.
09:39
and LTSP lost the cost advantage years ago
09:39
<alkisg>
warren: http://www.ltsp.org/stories/widget-map/?location=Greece
09:39
400 schools so far, for the cost and other benefits
09:39
None of them would be interested in local linux installations
09:39
<warren>
alkisg: I'm putting in enough time to help Enslaver formalize current LTSP-tech in EL-6, our LTS distribution
09:40
with ~7 years remaining in maintenance
09:40
<alkisg>
elias_a: posix compliance is nice when it still gets the job done
09:40
warren: sure, I'm not asking you for ltsp time
09:40
I just believe ltsp has a future
09:40
Even if for fat clients only
09:40
<elias_a>
Second that.
09:41
<alkisg>
I don't know if it'll be worth it in the future to work on ltsp, or to reimplement it from scratch, but I believe netbooting is the way to go for schools
09:41
<elias_a>
Solely in Finland abt 34 000 school users
09:41
<warren>
VDI and Cloud-based HTML5 apps have equal or less cost, and they are a lot more robust to network disruptions than LTSP.
09:41
VDI can be netbooted too.
09:41
<alkisg>
vdi won't work with Piii / 128 RAM
09:42
<warren>
true
09:42* markit has 640kbit internet connection in two of his schools, no "cloud" possible here
09:42
<warren>
alkisg: OTOH Google is getting Chromebooks into schools at $100 each.
09:42
<elias_a>
warren: How do you give a student a VDI based access to school system?
09:43
<warren>
I rather not argue. LTSP has important uses in the next decade.
09:43
<elias_a>
warren: How do they authenticate before booting or even after that?
09:43
<warren>
Just its cost benefits have largely disappeared.
09:43
<alkisg>
Also html5 apps won't quickly replace the 50+ gb of greek educational software we have to use here
09:43
<warren>
agreed
09:43
<elias_a>
warren: Google is not an option in civilized world.
09:44
<warren>
OK, we clearly disagree, that's fine.
09:44
<alkisg>
We evaluated many many types of remote solutions, ltsp was the only one that actually work
09:44
<warren>
Hey, I'm helping a little on LTSP in the next few weeks.
09:44
<alkisg>
We also have papers with the results, although in greek
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09:44
<elias_a>
warren: Thank you for your help.
09:45
<MastaaK>
Hi, I've got an LTSP server with an LDAP authentification, but for my first login that doesn't create a new folder, I already add "session required pam_mkhomedir.so skel=/etc/skel/ umask=0077" to pam.d files and I already have edit my nslcd.conf ....
09:45
Did you have any idea? I've already check in the skel folder and I have "examples.desktop"
09:46
<elias_a>
warren: The reason for me to beg for you to support LTSP is that IMHO with LTSP many things are done that could not be done with other tools.
09:46
<warren>
elias_a: I disagree with that as a conclusory statement. that being said I'm still willing to help.
09:47
<elias_a>
warren: I am in a position there I should know something about it.
09:47
<warren>
EL-6 will probably be Fedora's last LTSP version.
09:47
Or at least I won't invest more time into it
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09:48
<elias_a>
warren: I am a bit slow today, sorry about that.
09:48
<warren>
elias_a: let's put this another way, even at the peak of LTSP there wasn't a market to sustain even minimal commercial development
09:48
now we are well past the peak
09:49
<elias_a>
warren: Oh, really?
09:49
<warren>
Other solutions have reduced in cost, do a lot more, and are robust against network disruptions. LTSP really sucks at the last part.
09:49
<elias_a>
warren: You got that part right.
09:49
<markit>
alkisg: (just to notify you) https://bugs.launchpad.net/epoptes/+bug/1117158
09:50
<elias_a>
warren: But what exactly are these other solutions?
09:50
<warren>
elias_a: ogra used to be dedicated at Canonical to making a paid supported LTSP solution in Ubuntu
09:50
elias_a: I tried to make LTSP paid-supported from RHEL
09:50
<elias_a>
warren: Ok. Now I see your point.
09:51
<warren>
Now after the commercial companies have moved on, LTSP is so starving for developers that it can't even maintain a tiny C app
09:51
<elias_a>
warren: The situation looks a bit different seen from Finland.
09:51
It is sad vmlintu is not onlin.
09:51
+e
09:52
<warren>
elias_a: believe me, I've put years of my life into LTSP
09:52
elias_a: fedora exists *because* of LTSP
09:52
<elias_a>
Their company is doing AFAIK ok in Finland.
09:52
<warren>
elias_a: yeah, there have been regional LTSP-based service providers
09:53
<alkisg>
LTSP when used for redeploying old computers has no commercial target except maybe for paid support. But it can still be a very good open source project backed up by non-commercial institutions
09:53
<warren>
elias_a: that doesn't solve the problem though that LTSP still is insecure by default and cannot handle network disruption
09:53
<elias_a>
warren: But tell me about your vision! What is the alternative?
09:53
<alkisg>
markit: ty - but I get notifications, no worries :)
09:54
<elias_a>
warren: Actually standalone PCs are not that useful w/o network resources today....
09:54
<warren>
elias_a: In the long-long-long term, I think Google has the right idea. The Chromebooks are intended to be interchangeable and stateless. All data that matters is online. You login from any machine. If your computer dies or network fails, all your data is protected.
09:55
elias_a: intermittent network is fine with Cloud-based apps and storage
09:55
Chromebooks can operate offline until you synchronize with the cloud the next time your internet works.
09:55
<elias_a>
warren: Yep. As long as we are able to do it in Europe.
09:55
<alkisg>
In the long-long term the software will be rewritten based on the cloud idea, so yeah the local OS won't matter much then... But /me bets that's no less than 10 years away here
09:55
<warren>
At that point I can smash the Chromebook and login from another.
09:56
I'm not saying Chromebooks are the solution
09:56
sometihng like it
09:56
<elias_a>
warren: Past news indicate there is no real reason to trust US anymore no matter what the subject is.
09:56
warren: Ok. Got your point.
09:57
<warren>
not to mention the old hardware that you recycle for LTSP thin clients burn a LOT more power than chromebooks
09:57
like 20 to 1 ratio
09:57
assuming you have LCD monitors
09:57
<elias_a>
How much is a chromebook?
09:57
<warren>
$200 retail minimum right now, $100 for schools
09:59
Let's make LTSP as good as we can right now.
09:59
<elias_a>
Yep.
09:59
<warren>
I'm just saying LTSP has a decade sunset remaining.
09:59
<elias_a>
warren: I believe you.
09:59
<alkisg>
Linux DEs too ...
09:59
<elias_a>
warren: Where do you live?
10:00
<warren>
Hawaii
10:00
alkisg: all DE's ...
10:01
<elias_a>
warren: My message is: people are getting suspicious about cloud services because of US legislation and practices.
10:01
I am talking about discussion hitting regular newspapers, not just nerds.
10:02
<alkisg>
That can be prototyped by some formal encryption service
10:02
<warren>
like MEGA? =)
10:03
elias_a: It is tenuous to accuse other solutions of privacy and security problems when LTSP is insecure by default.
10:03
<elias_a>
warren: If you are US citizen, please do something about the reckless behaviour of your legislators and intelligence.
10:03* alkisg has never even heard of the MEGA service, so no idea there.... what I'm saying is that it's possible to be certain, client side, that the server doesn't know your data contents
10:03
<warren>
elias_a: we did. Then he stabbed us in the back...
10:03
<elias_a>
warren: Who did?
10:04
<warren>
alkisg: yeah, that's the idea behind MEGA and a few other recent services.
10:05
alkisg: and while Google can be problematic in privacy due to their power, they too have options to store certain data in their Cloud where encryption is done client-side
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10:14
<elias_a>
warren: Who did stab you?
10:15
<warren>
(not obvious?)
10:16
<elias_a>
warren: I do not follow you.
10:16
<warren>
sorry
10:16
I better sleep
10:16
<elias_a>
warren: Thanks for your time!
10:17
warren: And sorry to be a bit offensive.
10:17
warren: Trying to build a better world here...
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10:33
<Hyperbyte>
elias_a, I believe Warren was making a joke. :)
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10:39
<markit>
Hyperbyte: hi, we talked some days ago and I cited you that I was using apt-cacher-ng while you are using a different one, but can't remember which one... can you refresh my memory please?
10:46
<elias_a>
Hyperbyte: Ok. The stuff done in US is no joke to me.
10:46
Actually it is warfare in my eyes.
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10:58
<Hyperbyte>
markit, I'm pretty sure you have the wrong person. I have no idea what apt-cacher-ng is.
10:59
elias_a, if you think it's forbidden to joke in dire situations, I pity you.
10:59
<markit>
Hyperbyte: was a discussion about squid, and as far as I remember, you told me you don't use and use something to cache .debs
10:59
but yes, I could be wrong
10:59
<Hyperbyte>
markit, I have quite unlimited and fast internet here. No need to cache .debs.
11:00
<markit>
Hyperbyte: ohhhh
11:00
I do strongly need not to take hours in ltsp server installations
11:00
<Hyperbyte>
I do use squid, however.
11:00
<markit>
btw, how fast is it your internet connection? mine 7mb/s at best
11:01
and how much do you spend montly? (me about 20 euros -> 26 $)
11:23
<warren>
hmm
11:23
what happened to bzr-gtk?
11:23* warren hasn't used bzr in almost 2 years
11:23
<warren>
was bzr-gtk replaced by something?
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11:27
<alkisg>
!test
11:27
<ltsp>
test: ~alkisg alkisg #ltsp $CHAN
11:27
<alkisg>
!nomodeset
11:27
<ltsp>
nomodeset: Unfortunately, Kernel Mode Setting (KMS) doesn't work well with some cards. To disable it, open /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default and replace "quiet splash" with "nomodeset".
11:27
<warren>
nomodeset *breaks* other X drivers
11:28* alkisg was just testing the bot
11:28
<alkisg>
markit: you were talking with vagrantc
11:28
<markit>
alkisg: oh, thanks, lol
11:29
with apt-cacher-ng I have a lot of issues about corrupted bzip2 with apt-get update
11:30
<alkisg>
There was a modified version of squid for package caching in the ubuntu archives
11:30* alkisg hasn't used any of those, no need for caching .deb packages with ltsp
11:30
<alkisg>
markit: you do know you can just copy the .debs from/to /var/cache/apt/archives, right?
11:35
<elias_a>
Hyperbyte: I don't mind joking. The problem is I did not understand the joke.
11:36
Hyperbyte: A very dysfunctional joke IMHO.
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11:53
<meamy>
hi all. witch scripte determine that the cluster client is configured and set CULSTER_CONFIGURED to true? Or did i just have to do this my self by writing it in to the lts.conf ?
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12:03
<NetoAtaides>
hello
12:04
does anyone know why the users I create by hand cannot login in graphics mode?
12:04
they do login in command line mode
12:06
I'm using ubuntu server
12:13
<Hyperbyte>
elias_a, lighten up!
12:13
NetoAtaides, where are you creating the users?
12:13
NetoAtaides, inside the LTSP client chroot, or on the server?
12:19
!users
12:19
<ltsp>
users: LTSP users for graphical login should be created on the server itself, NOT inside the client chroot. LTSP clients connect to the server to verify user credentials, they should not hold any user information themselves as this is very insecure.
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12:28
<elias_a>
Hyperbyte: I do not know how to lighten up if I do not get any hints on that someone is joking.
12:29
<ltspuser_14>
Hi, is there a way to publish applications with LSTP as well?
12:29
<elias_a>
Hyperbyte: I am not that much into angloamerican culture that I would automagically recognize such hints.
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12:47
<NetoAtaides>
sorry...I'm creating the users in the server
12:47
in the future I'll want to use LDAP
12:50
I'm using useradd to create the users
12:50
do they need any given permission to access the X server?
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13:04
<Hyperbyte>
NetoAtaides, no. I'm confused.
13:04
You're saying they can login in "command line mode". How, what, where? Command line mode on the client?
13:05
elias_a, in general, lighten up. :)
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13:09
<NetoAtaides>
yeah...in the client they can login in command line mode, but not via X
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13:22
<NetoAtaides>
Does anyone know where the error logs are?
13:23
Cause I can't find the logs for the login error
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13:47
<elias_a>
Hyperbyte: I probably would if I knew how to. And especially why.
13:48
Hyperbyte: Until then I just have to wonder what is it I lack. :P
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14:52
<meamy>
NetoAtaides: There are logs for ldm at /var/log/ldm.log also you can search for X related error logs in /home/(user)/.xsession-errors or in /var/log/Xorg.7.log
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15:51
<Silicium>
hi there
15:52
quick question, just for evaluation reason
15:53
i'am just nerved of shutdown my notebook every evening at work and loosing all my "work"
15:53
i mean, session
15:53
<jammcq>
huh?
15:53
<Silicium>
but i need the notebook also for private so i would like to put the work part to a ltsp system
15:53
which i can connect to when iam at work
15:54
and with it dont loosing the session but just reconnect
15:54
<jammcq>
you have a netbook that you want to use as a thin client during the day, while at work, and then use it as a netbook at night ?
15:54
<Silicium>
but whats about multihead? does that work well? iam currently using debian 6 with dualhead and one of them is rotated 45% (for coding)
15:54
notebook
15:54
yes
15:55
important question is dualhead
15:55
<jammcq>
hmm, dunno about multi-head. I've not done it with ltsp
15:55
others have
15:55
<Silicium>
others sounds good
15:55
how does ltsp work in fact? X forwarding?
15:55
<jammcq>
X over SSH
15:56
<Silicium>
ok, great, then multihead will work :)
15:56
and its possible to disconnect a session, reboot the thin client and login into the same session with the same state again, right?
15:56
<jammcq>
no
15:57
it would be a new session
15:57
unless you are using something like VNC or NoMachine, but that's not LTSP
15:58
<Silicium>
ok then its useless
15:58
for me
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15:59
<jammcq>
why do you want to leave your session running?
15:59
<Silicium>
in fact i search for a way to detach an X11 window from the xclient and attach it again later
15:59
i have tons of IDE windows debugging stuff etc running
15:59
and i just let the notebook at work because i dont want to restart all the tools every morning again
16:01
oh, i want xpra
16:01
"So basically it's screen for remote X apps.
16:01
"
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16:10
<markit>
Silicium: maybe x2go could help too
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17:07
<||cw>
well, you can use ltsp to make a thin client that connects to vnc or nx
17:08
but yeah, I don't think ltsp will do what Silicium wants
17:13
<lotharn>
anyone in here know how to install drivers on a wyse?
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17:27
<alkisg>
Is there anything special about wyse vs installing drivers in other machines?
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18:54
<lotharn>
anyone wanna point me to the basics for wyse terminal management?
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19:04
<alkisg>
lotharn: are wyse terminals different than other terminals?
19:04
<lotharn>
alkisg: sorta
19:04
<alkisg>
Why are you asking about specific models instead of just mentioning whatever problems you have?
19:04
E.g. some people might know the solution, but not know anything about wyse terms..
19:05
<lotharn>
i need to install drivers on wince for these terminals
19:05
<alkisg>
Windows CE?
19:05
<lotharn>
but i'm new to the format of these devices
19:05
yesa
19:06
<alkisg>
You are in the #ltsp channel... why do you expect people here to know about windows?
19:06
Why not ask in #windows or some other more appropriate channel?
19:06
<lotharn>
im asking in several channels
19:06
<alkisg>
ltsp == LINUX terminal server project
19:06
So don't expect people here to know about wince...
19:07
We didn't even understand you were asking about windows
19:07
<lotharn>
thanks
19:07
i'm really not
19:07
<elias_a>
what?
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