IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 18 November 2019   (all times are UTC)

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06:08
<alkisg>
eddyTV: there was a similar change in ubuntu docker containers, where they switched to --no-install-recommends, which is actually against debian policy recommendations
06:09
You can see the results; it's like you need to maintain the list of dependencies yourself; it doesn't sound good
06:09
It would be better if you could use --no-install-recommends *just* for lightdm, not for all the system
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07:45
<enoch112>
goo morning!
07:45
good*
07:45
<alkisg>
'morning enoch112
07:46
<enoch112>
still no luck with applying this: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1386161&sid=d7e491583d9ae3a7eda0524c37fd6452#p1386161
07:46
I had high hopes but maximum clients at the same time are around 11-15
07:46
<alkisg>
I'm guessing you mean that this isn't the solution to your problem...
07:46
<enoch112>
only 12 are shown in epoptesthough
07:46
yes
07:46
<alkisg>
Yeah, start with monitoring journalctl when booting the 15th client
07:46
<enoch112>
I will try now
07:47
<alkisg>
There are *millions* of things you could try; but this isn't the right approach, it would take ages
07:47
You should focus on detecting the problem, not guessing it
07:47
<enoch112>
you're absolutely correct
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12:37
<tarzeau>
is ltsp5 or ltsp recommended with ubuntu 20.04 LTS? what about debian buster or bullseye?
12:38
and ltsp server now will be linux only, right?
12:39
what about ldm?
12:39
<uumas>
ltsp19 is recommended for all new setups as ltsp5 is mostly unmaintained at this point.
12:39
Ltsp has always been linux only. Ldm isn't used in the new ltsp. It uses a pam module for authentication.
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13:25
<douglas_br>
Hello!
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13:46
<alkisg>
Hi douglas_br
13:47
tarzeau: bulleye already has the new ltsp, and so will ubuntu 20.04 in a couple of weeks or so
13:49
<tarzeau>
alkisg: i know that sid and 20.04 (proposed) have it, but bullseye certainly doesn't have it according to https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/ltsp also only for sid listed at https://packages.debian.org/sid/ltsp
13:50
but yeah i can understand you want the new one quickly
13:50
<alkisg>
tarzeau: ah sorry it needs a few days to get from unstable to testing
13:50
<tarzeau>
will it work without dnsmasq ?
13:50
<alkisg>
We have a page that describes isc-dhcp-server
13:50
Also, tftpd-hpa can be used,
13:51
and an external dhcp server etc can also be used
13:51
It's just that dnsmasq is that some `ltsp xx` commands support
13:51
If one installs something else, he'd need to provide a configuration file for it...
13:51
<tarzeau>
you're also using the debian/control Vcs fields wrong
13:52
<alkisg>
Which part?
13:52
I think I just copied what vagrant had in epoptes there
13:52
<douglas_br>
mini pcs (not raspberry pi) can be used for LTSP clients? what does processors start from? I did see some AMD E-something I do not like amd series c e not good and Intel J....so what the best choice to start from for clients?
13:52
<tarzeau>
https://sources.debian.org/src/ltsp/19.11-1/debian/control/ lines 9 and 10
13:52
<alkisg>
tarzeau: yeah I meant, what would be the correct values there?
13:53
!cheap-client | echo douglas_br:
13:53
<ltspbot>
douglas_br: cheap-client: https://www.gearbest.com/tv-box-c_11262/?attr=2081-1279
13:53
<alkisg>
You can also use raspberries for ltsp clients
13:53
<tarzeau>
and you should not ship debian/ with upstream tarballs
13:53
alkisg: something with salsa.debian.org ;)
13:54
not with network boot though?
13:54
<alkisg>
tarzeau: I know that normally, debian packaging is done separately, but afaik, it's supported to have upstream ship a debian dir
13:54
(03:54:03 PM) tarzeau: not with network boot though? ==> which part, raspberries? Sure, they do support netbooting
13:54
<tarzeau>
not the 1, 2, and 4 :)
13:54
<alkisg>
And now ipxe starts supporting raspberries too
13:55
I do have rpi 2, 3 and 4 booting from ltsp19
13:55
I don't have 1 because I don't have rpi1 :)
13:56
<douglas_br>
owww ltspbot these clients works fine?
13:56
<alkisg>
douglas_br: ltspbot is still a bot, not a human
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13:56* alkisg guesses the new "ltspbot" name, vs the old "ltsp", doesn't help much :/
13:57
<alkisg>
douglas_br: we use the ltspbot program to keep notes
13:57
And then show them to irc users
13:57
<douglas_br>
I am stupid heehhee
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13:58
<enoch8585>
alkisg so I'm about to file a bug upstream regarding the flickering/blanking DP monitor, but I have no clue what to provide and what do write
13:58
<douglas_br>
right alkisg
13:58
<alkisg>
(03:53:31 PM) tarzeau: and you should not ship debian/ with upstream tarballs => also there, why not? IMHO it would be best if there were *no* debian packagers, just upstream packagers shipping a debian dir, and I'm trying to make my own packages that way
13:59
<enoch8585>
I'm currently stadning here: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/app/xrandr/issues
13:59
is that even the right place to be?
13:59
<alkisg>
enoch8585: I would do this: install debian testing, which is the latest famous distribution that supports i386, in a usb stick or disk, boot your pc with just a dp screen so that people aren't confused by dual screens etc, and then file it in freedesktop
14:00
enoch8585: well not xrandr, but xorg, yes, it's the correct place
14:00
<douglas_br>
alkisg you recommend use raspberry pi or is better slim pc clients
14:00
<tarzeau>
alkisg: the point is upstream packagers often get things wrong :) they should concentrate on the software
14:00
<alkisg>
enoch8585: find the intel drm part
14:00* enoch8585 is looking around in Gitlab
14:00
<alkisg>
tarzeau: I'm 100% against that thought. Linux would be a better place if upstream did the packaging.
14:01
douglas_br: slim pc. They're 20-50 times faster than raspberries
14:01
<tarzeau>
and if upstream does it only with dockerfile? appimage? snap? flat? rpm? deb?
14:01
<alkisg>
tarzeau: no no no. They would be normal debian maintainers, with all the bells and whistels
14:01
<tarzeau>
or upstream can't make binaries for sparc64?
14:02
<alkisg>
E.g. simon that creates dnsmasq is also debian maintainer
14:02
You don't need to kick him and put another maintainer in his place
14:02
As long as he cares about debian AND upstream, he's the ideal person
14:03
About docker/snap/flat/rpm/deb etc, hopefully at some point a single file will be able to build all targets
14:03
Sure, that will take a long time, because distro maintainers aren't the upstream maintainers
14:03
For some reason the focus there is all wrong
14:04
<enoch8585>
here: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/intel ?
14:05
<alkisg>
enoch8585: I believe so
14:06
enoch8585: have a local debian testing (it can even run over the network if you don't want to spend a usb stick / disk) there for weeks/months until this is resolved,
14:06
to be able to test whatever they tell you to, build packages, apply patches etc
14:08
<tarzeau>
well i'm sorry redhat hat to reinvent a package manager, 3 years after debian already had dpkg adding complexitiy in linux binary package distribution
14:08
meanwhile canonical and a bunch of others did make it even worse
14:09
<alkisg>
tarzeau: true; but why did you start with "debian", and not something like appdata, which doesn't mention "redhat"?
14:09
<tarzeau>
appdata? freedesktop.org ?
14:09
<alkisg>
If debian opted for package metadata, instead of packaging policy, that metadata could be easily reused for other packaging
14:09
Yes
14:09
<tarzeau>
nobody forbids you reuseing debian metadata, or?
14:10
even now (or 10 years ago) debian metadata was easy to re-use
14:10
i've done it for some deb2soliars-pkg packaging
14:10
and deb2freebsd-ports
14:10
<alkisg>
They don't intent to be distro-agnostic, they weren't designed for that
14:10
<tarzeau>
did anyone else design it to be portable? no if you ask me
14:11
<alkisg>
But anyway, what's done is done; I prefer to steer things to what I feel is best for the community, within the bounds of what I am allowed to do
14:11
<tarzeau>
chocolatey, machomebrew, freebsd, everyone is using their own meta data
14:11
<alkisg>
So, e.g., I uninstall snapd right after installing ubuntu
14:11
Right,I don't suggest that those do things better
14:11
<tarzeau>
we're also getting rid of snapd :)
14:11
<alkisg>
But, if all upstream including packaging info, of the same format, then distributions could start using that
14:11
<tarzeau>
and building our own chromium packages in our own reprepro repository
14:12
it's just that not all software is only for linux
14:12
<alkisg>
There can be a windows/ dir too
14:13
In my ideal world, a packaging/ dir would have the common info, and debian/ or windows/ etc dirs would have OS or distro specific info
14:13
And in many cases, they wouldn't be needed, packaging/ would be enough
14:14
And all those would be maintained upstream, shipped in .tar.gz, and excluded from the distros at build time
14:15
makefiles work in windows too, making packaging work in windows isn't too weird
14:15
<tarzeau>
there's no such ideal world
14:15
people moved to qmake meanwhile
14:15
<alkisg>
But we can push towards it, even in little baby steps
14:15
<tarzeau>
cmake i mean
14:15
my ideal world doesn't have systemd :)
14:15
<alkisg>
Ah, I do love that part
14:16
It minimizes diversity!
14:16
<tarzeau>
it just breaks stuff and makes debugging hard (for me)
14:16
<alkisg>
After spending hundreds of hours just for making the software run in *other distros*, one starts to hate diversity
14:16
<enoch8585>
alkisg sorry, I have no history here in freenode, could you please try to find that link I sent regarding this issue? It was a link to bugs.launchpad something something
14:16
<alkisg>
(04:04:37 PM) enoch8585: here: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/intel ?
14:16
<enoch8585>
no
14:16
a while back
14:16
like last week
14:17
it described my issue and steps to repoduce
14:17
<alkisg>
http://devs.ts.sch.gr temporarily holds irclogs
14:17
Go there and search for what you mean
14:17
<enoch8585>
perfect
14:17
thanks
14:17
<alkisg>
enoch8585: it helps a lot if you use the same username
14:17
I.e. drop the number there
14:18
You can then search "what enoch said", instead of "what enoch<randomnumber> said"
14:18
Same for private message logs; if you talk to someone, they can see their log from you
14:22
<enoch8585>
found it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1574617
14:23
<alkisg>
enoch8585: I"m not sure that helps, people there are even saying about bad cable quality. Btw, did you try with another DP cable, to make sure that this isn't to blame?
14:23
It's also marked duplicate from a bug that stopped after 4.13 kernel
14:24
<enoch8585>
alkisg haven't tried another cable yet
14:24
so they won't update old kernels?
14:24
as4.10 is the only one that works it seems
14:24
<alkisg>
enoch8585: you tested with 5.x and it didn't work, so what I mean is that this is NOT YOUR bug
14:24
You have another bug
14:24
<enoch8585>
ok
14:25
<alkisg>
Spend 5€ and test the cable first; if it works, it would help a lot in solving the bug
14:25
And test another dp monitor if possible
14:26
Borrow one if you have to
14:27
<enoch8585>
yeah, will file this bug here so it's out there at least. feels like a mounting to file, this one as I don't have a clue (you did the debugging)
14:28
<alkisg>
If you're not willing to test all these (other monitor, cable, latest debian os), don't bother filling it, it won't help
14:28
If upstream asks you about feedback, and you take a couple of months to respond, they'll just ignore you after that
14:29
<enoch8585>
I am willing, just want to get this over with (filing)
14:29
https://pastebin.com/pcK8v64Y
14:29
that's what I was thinking to file
14:29
not very much to go on
14:29
<alkisg>
A proper filing is *after* testin monitor, cable and latest drm
14:30
Right, you said it yourself, "not very much to go on" => will put your issue in a "meh, bad reporter" state
14:30
<enoch8585>
true
14:31
then better not posting it
14:31
at all
14:31
<alkisg>
Right
14:31
Do the tests first, THEN post it
14:31
monitor, cable, debian testing
14:31
<enoch8585>
but, I don't even know which command to run to debug it properly, you did all that :)
14:31
<alkisg>
Don't run any commands
14:31
<enoch8585>
dmesg
14:32
journalctl
14:32
syslog
14:32
<alkisg>
Do those 3 tests above, then just paste dmesg and xorg.log to them
14:32
<enoch8585>
etc
14:32
<alkisg>
Nothing more
14:33
<enoch8585>
ok, tried different monitors already some wont boot at all
14:33
boot/show anything
14:33
so, cables
14:33
right
14:33
will do that
14:34
any recomendations regarding cabeling?
14:34
cables*
14:36
<douglas_br>
its possible clients have access to windows vm in ltsp server?
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14:38
<alkisg>
enoch8585: no
14:38
douglas_br: yes
14:40
<douglas_br>
right
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16:03
<woernie_>
hello again, my Networkprinters now work fine on the fatclients. On one fat-client i have a usb printer. I can install it and use it, but on reboot of that cleint it doesn't have the usb printer anymore. Any hints?
16:05
<alkisg>
!printer
16:05
<ltspbot>
printer: Quick how-to: RCFILE_01="/usr/sbin/jetpipe /dev/usb/lp0 9100 &" in lts.conf, reboot client, then go to server's add printer dialog, and specify network printer → jetdirect → ltsp123.local
16:05
<alkisg>
woernie_: that one ^
16:05
I.e. you expose that printer from the client to the server, then all clients (including this one) see it
16:09
<woernie_>
thanks
16:10
<alkisg>
np
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17:28
<Shah>
Hi, I just did an apt-get update on my ubuntu 16.04 system and LTSP stopped working, I was being directed to busybox, I noticed in syslog that dnsmasq was not starting with error log "the port is already in use", I found that this port was being used by tftpd, so I stopped tftpd and then I was able to see tty1 login, but now I am stuck here, found
17:28
this in syslog "cannot bind to local IPv4 socket: Address already in use" for tftpd, appreciate for any help please, thanks here is my ltsp-infoserver information:No LSB modules are available.Distributor ID: UbuntuDescription: Ubuntu 16.04.6 LTSRelease: 16.04Codename: xenialserver packages:un ldm-server <none>un ltsp-client-core <none>un ltsp-docs
17:28
<none>ii ltsp-server 5.5.7-1ubuntu1un ltsp-utils <none>un ltspfs <none>packages in chroot: /opt/ltsp/i386ii ldm:i386 2:2.2.18-1un ldm-themes <none>ii ldm-ubuntu-theme 2:2.0.47un ldm-ubuntu-themes <none>ii ltsp-client:i386 5.5.7-1ii ltsp-client-core:i386 5.5.7-1ii ltspfsd 1.4-2ii ltspfsd-core:i386 1.4-2found: /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conffound:
17:28
/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conffound image: /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
17:30
<alkisg>
!paste
17:30
<ltspbot>
paste: To avoid channel flooding, please upload text longer than 3 lines to http://paste.debian.net. Don't forget to paste the resulting URL here.
17:30
<alkisg>
Shah: I think the first thing to do would be to update both the server and the chroot with the greek schools ppa
17:30
!greek-schools-ppa
17:30
<ltspbot>
greek-schools-ppa: https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa/ supports LTS Ubuntu releases with newer LTSP versions, bug fixes etc
17:30
<alkisg>
That said, why do you have both tftpd-hpa and dnsmasq installed?
17:31
I can have a look via VNC, if you want
17:31
!vnc-dide
17:31
<ltspbot>
vnc-dide: To share your screen with me, run this: sudo apt-get --yes install x11vnc; x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr - this is a reverse connection, it doesn't need port forwarding etc.
17:31
<Shah>
alkisg thank you for reply, actually you had setup this for me a couple of years back
17:31
<alkisg>
Without the greek schools ppa? Strange :)
17:32
OK, let's VNC so that I take a quick look
17:32
<Shah>
thank, sending
17:32
sudo apt-get --yes install x11vnc; x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr
17:32
ok
17:40
<alkisg>
Shah: you installed too many programs from PPAs and broke apt :)
17:42
<Shah>
hm :(
17:43
<alkisg>
Also, apt upgrade is wrong, use apt full-upgrade
17:43
apt upgrade prevents proper upgrading
17:43
(it blocks new packages)
17:44
<Shah>
<3 thank you, also please please do let me know your email, I lost somewhere and now when I saw your nickname I thought it might be you but was confused to ask directly :)
17:45
<alkisg>
alkisg at gmail
17:47
<Shah>
ah great now I found it, Thu, Jan 5, 2017, 9:32 AM from contact at raza.gr :)
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17:54
<Shah>
alkisg I see that I didn't reply last email , I was gone for good from Athens, but returned and went into other things, I'll save the address now and send you in email, I also need few guys to hire in Athens, maybe you have some contacts
17:57
<uumas>
alkisg: apt upgrade does install new dependencies. It just refuses to delete previously installed, conflicting packages.
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18:25
<alkisg>
Shah, i'll be back in 20 mins
18:26
<Shah40>
ok
18:26
I got disconnected and reconnected as Shah40
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18:47
<alkisg>
400 package updates :D
18:49
<Shah40>
its a development server , a lot of test cases X-P
18:50
mostly it was not being used almost a year now
18:52
<alkisg>
Maybe you should just reinstall using ltsp19 then
18:52
the new ltsp
18:57
<Shah40>
I thought that would be too much hassle to upgrade ubunt/ltsp
18:58
p.s I have fixed apt-get update & apt-get upgrade by removing broken ppa
18:58
<alkisg>
eh, you need 2 hours updates :D
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19:04
<Shah40>
:O
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19:13
<alkisg>
Shah40: ok, try to boot a client
19:15
<Shah40>
it is booting to tty1
19:17
<eu^205215175117>
Hi alkisg I think the update to ltsp19.11 re-wrote that line I put somewhere (!) so that the loop devices didn't interfere with remote access and shutdown with epoptes. Sorry I thought I wrote it down but there has been lots of juggling on my end these last few weeks... Do you recall this?
19:18
I looked for irclogs but am not finding it, and I've not yet put it on the wiki.
19:18
OH! -- dgroos here...
19:19
<alkisg>
Haha
19:19
eu^205215175117: yeah it would help a lot if you ran: /nick dgroos
19:19
:)
19:19
<eu^205215175117>
:-P
19:20eu^205215175117 is now known as dgroos1
19:21
<alkisg>
Shah40: I think while you were trying to fix it, you added dnsmasq options anywhere, even in lts.conf :)
19:21
I removed them, they were inappropriate
19:21
dgroos1: I don't remember what line you're talking about, mention a bit more background story there...
19:21
<dgroos1>
bell just rang... going into teacher mode
19:22
<alkisg>
ok
19:22
<Shah40>
@alkisg eistai theos
19:22
<alkisg>
Shah40: all ok now?
19:22
:D
19:22
<dgroos1>
Will do but probably too late, tomorrow perhaps
19:22
<alkisg>
irclogs are temporarily hosted at devs.ts.sch.gr
19:22
<Shah40>
when are you coming in Athens for beers? O:3
19:22
<alkisg>
It'll be back to irclogs.ltsp.org in a few days
19:23
Shah40: I'd be 200 Kg if I drunk a beer for each time I helped someone :)
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19:24
<Shah40>
haha
19:24
one question, remember last time you disabled me 2nd monitor , is it possible to run 2 monitors on this thin client?
19:24
it has 2 dvi outputs
19:25
<alkisg>
I don't see why not
19:33
<Shah40>
couldn't find second cable to connect other monitor right now, I will let you know how it goes
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20:34
<dgroos>
alkisg: The problem: sometimes can't log out a user w/epoptes or logout is very slow.
20:35
Commonly happens if someone was logged into an ltsp19 client, the client locks due to inactivity (and esp if there is a popup window on the screen from eg firefox saying, do you really want to quit).
20:37
I'll check irclogs, probably wasn't made by my 'dgroos' user, but the web nick.
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