IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 2 August 2016 (all times are UTC)
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| 13:18 | <bennabiy> alkisg: were you able to look into the advanced menu not appearing on thin clients?
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| 13:19 | I thought I filed a bug report about it against ltsp
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| 13:19 | alkisg: ubuntu-mate 16.04
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| 14:57 | <alkisg> bennabiy: sorry, I don't have funding to work on ltsp currently, so I'm only doing high priority tasks or paid ones
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| 14:58 | <bennabiy> alkisg: that is sad to hear. Thank you for answering
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| 14:58 | Do you know if something changed as far as gtk in 16.04?
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| 14:58 | I know the advanced menu requires gtk2
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| 14:59 | <alkisg> I haven't heard anything related, no
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| 14:59 | <bennabiy> ok, thank you.
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| 14:59 | <alkisg> np
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| 15:00 | <bennabiy> alkisg: what is your favorite python debugger?
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| 15:00 | <alkisg> I'm not using any
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| 15:00 | <bennabiy> ok
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| 15:00 | <alkisg> I haven't done much development in python
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| 15:01 | <bennabiy> understood
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| 18:14 | * bennabiy waves at vagrantc | |
| 18:15 | <bennabiy> been a while
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| 18:18 | * vagrantc waves | |
| 18:19 | <bennabiy> (almost never) quick question for you...
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| 18:19 | I am trying to find out why my menu disappears only in ltsp thin client, not in x2go or direct on server...
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| 18:20 | It is the advanced menu in ubuntu-mate ported over from linuxmint, and when I use it on a thin client, I only get a single pixel, and can see it running in the background (it is a python app)
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| 18:20 | Do you have any thoughts on why it would only be the thin client which suffers?
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| 18:20 | <vagrantc> i don't have much experience with menus, admittedly
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| 18:21 | <bennabiy> you do have experience with the codebase though, which is why I am asking
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| 18:21 | I am wondering if the issue is in LDM or whatever the screen control
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| 18:21 | <vagrantc> so the thing that generates the menu is a program? not a .desktop file or something?
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| 18:23 | <bennabiy> https://bitbucket.org/ubuntu-mate/mate-menu/
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| 18:24 | it is python code
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| 18:24 | loads a menu applet
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| 18:24 | I am logged into the server and it works fine, but when I log in through a thin client it is just a single white pixel
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| 18:24 | but ps shows it running
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| 18:25 | <vagrantc> really no idea what in LTSP would cause the menus not to show up...
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| 18:25 | <bennabiy> what is actually providing the screen output to ldm?
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| 18:26 | from server to thin client
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| 18:26 | <vagrantc> well, you're running mate, so you're already well past LDM
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| 18:26 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 18:26 | <vagrantc> are you using LDM_DIRECTX ?
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| 18:26 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 18:26 | well, actually
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| 18:26 | <vagrantc> then it's just raw X11 traffic
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| 18:26 | <bennabiy> I am not sure, I will have to check
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| 18:27 | <vagrantc> are they thin clients, or fat clients?
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| 18:27 | <bennabiy> I am not sure if I set up my lts.conf yet
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| 18:27 | thin
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| 18:27 | all thin
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| 18:27 | I have not checked a fat client yet
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| 18:27 | <vagrantc> would be interested to see how a fat client responds
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| 18:27 | <bennabiy> I have a feeling it will work, but not entirely sure
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| 18:28 | need to build a fat client
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| 18:28 | what all mandatory options are needed for a fat client without doing -c /
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| 18:28 | <vagrantc> if LDM_DIRECTX=true, it's using raw X11, otherwise, it's using X11 over ssh.
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| 18:29 | bennabiy: building a fat client out of the chroot, or what?
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| 18:29 | <bennabiy> using ltsp-build-client
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| 18:30 | I guess I am just wondering since I am running ubuntu-mate what I would need to add to make a proper mate fat client
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| 18:30 | <vagrantc> mostly, just install whatever mate-metapackage
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| 18:30 | into the chroot
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| 18:30 | <bennabiy> best to do it after the fact?
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| 18:31 | <vagrantc> shouldn't matter much either way
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| 18:31 | <bennabiy> ok
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| 18:31 | I do have LDM_DIRECTX=True
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| 18:31 | <vagrantc> use ltsp-chroot to minimize the liklihood of starting daemons inside the chroot
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| 18:31 | <bennabiy> ok
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| 18:32 | <vagrantc> e.g. sudo ltsp-chroot apt install mate-whatever
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| 18:32 | (or maybe apt-get)
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| 18:33 | <bennabiy> do you work with python much?
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| 18:36 | <vagrantc> not as much as i should :)
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| 18:36 | <bennabiy> heh
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| 18:36 | I feel the same way
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| 18:36 | have you found a good visual debugger?
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| 18:36 | <vagrantc> haven't say i've ever looked for one :)
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| 18:37 | <bennabiy> I can use pdb, but if there is something a bit better then I am open to hear
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| 18:37 | ok
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| 19:04 | vagrantc what does the option --purge-chroot do?
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| 19:04 | <vagrantc> deletes the chroot before building
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| 19:04 | e.g. if there's already a chroot, and you try ltsp-build-client again, it will fail
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| 19:04 | <bennabiy> ah, so if it already exists, it overwrites
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| 19:04 | ok
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| 19:05 | I thought it might remove the source chroot after the image was built
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| 19:05 | for those only using squashfs
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| 19:05 | * vagrantc toys with the idea of rewriting ltsp-build-client as an ansible plybook | |
| 19:05 | <bennabiy> that would be wonderful!
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| 19:05 | I am wanting to get more into ansible
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| 19:05 | I like it better than puppet
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| 19:06 | <vagrantc> i've done a lot of useful things with it, but am at the point where i'll have to really spend some time learning to get to the next level :)
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| 19:07 | though, at this point, there isn't much to do with ltsp-build-client ... most of the action is in init-ltsp.d
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| 19:07 | it's just down to package selections
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| 19:07 | <bennabiy> I have been impressed with what it can do, but have not had much time to work on it, as I have been doing other things like baking and such for our delis as well as fixing things, but am back in a place where I am more devoted to maintaining technical things
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| 19:08 | I have been playing around with illumos kernel as well in smartos, and like the zones etc
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| 19:08 | <vagrantc> whoah
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| 19:08 | <bennabiy> whoah?
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| 19:10 | * bennabiy puzzles... | |
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| 19:18 | <vagrantc> illumos/smartos
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| 19:18 | looking to a diverse network :)
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| 19:18 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 19:19 | especially interested since kvm / lx containers is almost flawlessly supported
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| 19:19 | what don't you like about secure linux environments backed by zfs ?
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| 19:19 | <vagrantc> every once in a while i get a wild hard and install Debian GNU/kFreeBSD or Debian GNU/Hurd :)
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| 19:20 | wild hair
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| 19:20 | <bennabiy> HAH!
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| 19:20 | I have looked at Debian GNU/Hurd, but after development died off, I did not think it would be productive for me
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| 19:20 | The concept is interesting
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| 19:20 | <vagrantc> it's certainly not about being productive :)
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| 19:20 | <bennabiy> nope
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| 19:21 | <vagrantc> though zfs sounds interesting
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| 19:21 | <bennabiy> zfs is very wonderful!
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| 19:21 | <||cw> zfs is pretty cool
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| 19:21 | <vagrantc> but most of the userland on the BSDs is painful ... so stuff with a debian userland is more interesting
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| 19:21 | <bennabiy> Even if all you do is use it to replace rsync, you have saved yourself MUCH bandwidth and such
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| 19:21 | <vagrantc> it feels like a time machine to the 90s
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| 19:21 | <bennabiy> you might like dilos
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| 19:22 | debian on illumos
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| 19:22 | <vagrantc> or dyson?
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| 19:22 | <bennabiy> or dyson
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| 19:22 | * vagrantc thought there were licensing issues with the opensolaris/illumos kernel and GNU userland | |
| 19:22 | <vagrantc> CDDL and GPL incompatibilities or something
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| 19:23 | <bennabiy> It is basically forks of everything compiled for illumos
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| 19:23 | As long as they build, they are fine, if I remember correctly
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| 19:23 | <vagrantc> yes, technically fine, though the licensing is at best in a legal grey area
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| 19:24 | <bennabiy> I would think Ubuntu would be the bigger target for licensing like that with zfs making it mainstream
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| 19:25 | <vagrantc> it is a hot topic
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| 19:25 | <bennabiy> I am sure, especially on the debian side I am guessing
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| 19:27 | I tried to build a fat-client and it locked up on updating the apt
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| 19:27 | twice now
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| 19:29 | thoughts?
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| 19:30 | debugging..
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| 19:30 | <vagrantc> what do you mean by "locked up" ?
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| 19:30 | oh, there are some options you might want to pass to ltsp-chroot
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| 19:31 | <bennabiy> After pulling all the updated it just freezes on 0% [Working]
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| 19:31 | <vagrantc> --mount-all
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| 19:32 | e.g. ltsp-chroot apt-get update ??
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| 19:32 | <bennabiy> https://paste.ec/paste/UzPOP7h4#tPNrE9IirG7ibJx0X-pU/F0ddzDQe84k4ujcujtERcu
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| 19:32 | during the build
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| 19:34 | <vagrantc> doesn't work without javascript :(
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| 19:35 | <alkisg> bennabiy: can you try without all those weird repositories?
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| 19:35 | download.opensuse.org etc...
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| 19:35 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 19:35 | * vagrantc squints | |
| 19:36 | * alkisg googles "squint"... :D | |
| 19:36 | <alkisg> Hehe
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| 19:36 | <vagrantc> "the act of squinting; looking with the eyes partly closed"
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| 19:37 | <bennabiy> (3)"the act of compressing integers"
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| 19:38 | * alkisg would surely look with his eyes partly closed if he had to compress integers... | |
| 19:39 | <bennabiy> yes, when I remove --copy-sourceslist it worked
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| 19:39 | we'll see if it pulls ubuntu-mate-desktop in
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| 19:39 | <alkisg> Check your server sources.list, it sounds problematic
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| 19:40 | <bennabiy> much of it is from Software Boutique installs, testing things out
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| 19:40 | * vagrantc Recommends: dict-freedict-eng-ell | |
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| 19:47 | * bennabiy whistles while the client "fattens" up | |
| 19:48 | <alkisg> bennabiy: why not ltsp-pnp?
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| 19:49 | <bennabiy> because I have not had much luck with it in the past, considering how I mount everything
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| 19:49 | <alkisg> What do you mean "mount everything"?
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| 19:50 | <bennabiy> I have layered mounts
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| 19:50 | and bind mounts
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| 19:50 | <alkisg> Those were solved, weren't they?
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| 19:50 | <bennabiy> and it was breaking the build
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| 19:50 | not sure
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| 19:50 | been a while since I have tried
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| 19:51 | <alkisg> You can also put things in ltsp-update-image.excludes
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| 19:52 | <bennabiy> yes,
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| 19:53 | I guess since this install has not been fully set up yet, it is a little less encumbered by customizations which I don't want to appear in the fat client
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| 19:53 | ok booting client
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| 19:55 | fat client, the menu appears
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| 19:55 | so it is limited to thin clients
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| 19:57 | I confirm this that I can log out of the user, with the menu on the mate-panel, log in as the user with thin client, and all that is there is a single pixel, and then log out and log in with a fat client, and it is there again
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| 19:57 | all with the same user, and without adding and removing anything
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| 19:59 | <alkisg> Which ltsp version is that?
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| 19:59 | mate 16.04?
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| 20:02 | <bennabiy> ubuntu-mate 16.04
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| 20:02 | 16.04.1
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| 20:03 | <alkisg> and normal redmond menu appears, the problem is in the advanced one, right?
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| 20:03 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 20:04 | I have even pulled in the latest version of mate-menu from bitbucket
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| 20:04 | <alkisg> Sounds to me like a problem with the XDG* environment variables
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| 20:04 | <bennabiy> What would be the best way to debug that?
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| 20:04 | <alkisg> Or with the systemd-logind / policykit "active" problem
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| 20:05 | I don't think I can specify debug instructions for that issue...
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| 20:05 | <bennabiy> I had the issue with mintmenu in ltsp on 17.3 (14.04 pre systemd) where it would disappear, and it was related to python-xlibs
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| 20:06 | <alkisg> Same issue, it happened only on thin clients?
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| 20:06 | <bennabiy> I was wondering if there is some type of issue where it is not being forwarded over X, but when run local, it works?
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| 20:06 | <alkisg> No
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| 20:07 | I don't think that's probable in this case
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| 20:07 | <bennabiy> No, that was global (although I cannot even say that for certain, because I did most of my work from thin clients)
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| 20:07 | <alkisg> Unrelated issue then
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| 20:07 | <bennabiy> and in this case, I get 1 pixel on the screen, where the menu is "running"
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| 20:08 | do you have mate install?
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| 20:08 | can you fire up a thin client vm and see if it works for you?
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| 20:08 | I know it is not just this one lab, as it has happened in two locations now
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| 20:08 | <alkisg> I think I had tried it at that point and it didn't work for me either
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| 20:09 | <bennabiy> as far as I can tell, it was not the python warnings either, as they have been fixed in the latest version, and it still is broken
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| 20:10 | what did we come up with to enable passwords on fat clients? LDM_HASHPASS=True?
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| 20:11 | <alkisg> !lts.conf
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| 20:11 | <ltsp> lts.conf: (#1) http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf, or (#2) lts.conf manpage is available in the ltsp-docs package
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| 20:11 | <alkisg> I think it's documented there
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| 20:12 | <bennabiy> yes, thankyou
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| 20:19 | hrm... it does not work if the user is in LDAP
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| 20:20 | <alkisg> That's for fat clients, while you're testing thins now, no?
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| 20:24 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 20:24 | but I tested a fat client to see if the menu was there, and it was
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| 20:24 | but I did not have access to my password, so I could not do other things in it
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| 20:24 | it is a side issue
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| 20:25 | <alkisg> So LDM_HASHPASS=True doesn't work for fat clients, if the server is configured to use LDAP logins?
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| 20:25 | <bennabiy> nope (and it is LDM_PASSWORD_HASH as per lts man page)
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| 20:25 | <alkisg> That sounds like a bug, I don't think the code is related to LDAP at all there
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| 20:26 | It should just get the pass from the user, hash it, and store it to passwd
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| 20:26 | <bennabiy> yes, but might be the /etc/passwd entry?
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| 20:26 | <alkisg> No server settings or ldap settings involved...
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| 20:27 | That's a different issue though, not the hashpass one
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| 20:27 | hashpass is about /etc/shadow
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| 20:27 | Not about /etc/passwd
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| 20:27 | <bennabiy> yes, but the bug is that the scripts try to pull user info from /etc/passwd
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| 20:28 | <alkisg> The scripts use getent, which also works with ldap, don't they?
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| 20:28 | <bennabiy> that is true
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| 20:28 | <alkisg> It's possible that there are issues with ldap, but not by design
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| 20:28 | <bennabiy> getent works
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| 20:28 | <alkisg> Most of ldap users didn't report any problems there
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| 20:28 | <bennabiy> it worked for me in mint 17
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| 20:28 | might just be a regressions because of something else?
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| 20:29 | or perhaps the LTS.CONF manpage might have the option documented wrong?
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| 20:29 | I just pulled the latest source, I can look
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| 20:29 | * bennabiy wishes it wasn't so long between development spurts | |
| 20:29 | <bennabiy> I forget everything
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| 20:31 | nope, LDM_PASSWORD_HASH is correct
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| 20:33 | I guess the [default] section at the top of lts.conf is important, eh?
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| 20:33 | * bennabiy sighs | |
| 20:33 | <alkisg> :)
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| 20:34 | <bennabiy> that worked...
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| 20:34 | ok no bug
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| 20:34 | now back to something different
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| 20:38 | ok, so I have fat client booted with menu present, and thin client booted with no menu
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| 20:39 | alkisg: you said something about XDG variables... how would I check?
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| 21:32 | <bennabiy> welcome back vagrantc
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| 21:32 | I confirmed, it is only thin clients, it works on fat clients, and everywhere else
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| 21:33 | environment variable or something which is different on thin clients than fat?
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| 21:44 | <vagrantc> DISPLAY
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| 21:45 | with a local system, it's likely to be DISPLAY=:0 ... on a thin client DISPLAY=ip.add.dre.s:7 or DIPLAY=localhost:11
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| 21:45 | ironically, the latter is for X11 over ssh
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| 21:54 | <bennabiy> hrm... I guess I can try the X over SSH, and see if it works
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| 22:11 | <vagrantc> might also be due to some XDG_* variables
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