IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 2 August 2016   (all times are UTC)

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13:18
<bennabiy>
alkisg: were you able to look into the advanced menu not appearing on thin clients?
13:19
I thought I filed a bug report about it against ltsp
13:19
alkisg: ubuntu-mate 16.04
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14:57
<alkisg>
bennabiy: sorry, I don't have funding to work on ltsp currently, so I'm only doing high priority tasks or paid ones
14:58
<bennabiy>
alkisg: that is sad to hear. Thank you for answering
14:58
Do you know if something changed as far as gtk in 16.04?
14:58
I know the advanced menu requires gtk2
14:59
<alkisg>
I haven't heard anything related, no
14:59
<bennabiy>
ok, thank you.
14:59
<alkisg>
np
15:00
<bennabiy>
alkisg: what is your favorite python debugger?
15:00
<alkisg>
I'm not using any
15:00
<bennabiy>
ok
15:00
<alkisg>
I haven't done much development in python
15:01
<bennabiy>
understood
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18:14* bennabiy waves at vagrantc
18:15
<bennabiy>
been a while
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18:18* vagrantc waves
18:19
<bennabiy>
(almost never) quick question for you...
18:19
I am trying to find out why my menu disappears only in ltsp thin client, not in x2go or direct on server...
18:20
It is the advanced menu in ubuntu-mate ported over from linuxmint, and when I use it on a thin client, I only get a single pixel, and can see it running in the background (it is a python app)
18:20
Do you have any thoughts on why it would only be the thin client which suffers?
18:20
<vagrantc>
i don't have much experience with menus, admittedly
18:21
<bennabiy>
you do have experience with the codebase though, which is why I am asking
18:21
I am wondering if the issue is in LDM or whatever the screen control
18:21
<vagrantc>
so the thing that generates the menu is a program? not a .desktop file or something?
18:23
<bennabiy>
https://bitbucket.org/ubuntu-mate/mate-menu/
18:24
it is python code
18:24
loads a menu applet
18:24
I am logged into the server and it works fine, but when I log in through a thin client it is just a single white pixel
18:24
but ps shows it running
18:25
<vagrantc>
really no idea what in LTSP would cause the menus not to show up...
18:25
<bennabiy>
what is actually providing the screen output to ldm?
18:26
from server to thin client
18:26
<vagrantc>
well, you're running mate, so you're already well past LDM
18:26
<bennabiy>
yes
18:26
<vagrantc>
are you using LDM_DIRECTX ?
18:26
<bennabiy>
yes
18:26
well, actually
18:26
<vagrantc>
then it's just raw X11 traffic
18:26
<bennabiy>
I am not sure, I will have to check
18:27
<vagrantc>
are they thin clients, or fat clients?
18:27
<bennabiy>
I am not sure if I set up my lts.conf yet
18:27
thin
18:27
all thin
18:27
I have not checked a fat client yet
18:27
<vagrantc>
would be interested to see how a fat client responds
18:27
<bennabiy>
I have a feeling it will work, but not entirely sure
18:28
need to build a fat client
18:28
what all mandatory options are needed for a fat client without doing -c /
18:28
<vagrantc>
if LDM_DIRECTX=true, it's using raw X11, otherwise, it's using X11 over ssh.
18:29
bennabiy: building a fat client out of the chroot, or what?
18:29
<bennabiy>
using ltsp-build-client
18:30
I guess I am just wondering since I am running ubuntu-mate what I would need to add to make a proper mate fat client
18:30
<vagrantc>
mostly, just install whatever mate-metapackage
18:30
into the chroot
18:30
<bennabiy>
best to do it after the fact?
18:31
<vagrantc>
shouldn't matter much either way
18:31
<bennabiy>
ok
18:31
I do have LDM_DIRECTX=True
18:31
<vagrantc>
use ltsp-chroot to minimize the liklihood of starting daemons inside the chroot
18:31
<bennabiy>
ok
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18:32
<vagrantc>
e.g. sudo ltsp-chroot apt install mate-whatever
18:32
(or maybe apt-get)
18:33
<bennabiy>
do you work with python much?
18:36
<vagrantc>
not as much as i should :)
18:36
<bennabiy>
heh
18:36
I feel the same way
18:36
have you found a good visual debugger?
18:36
<vagrantc>
haven't say i've ever looked for one :)
18:37
<bennabiy>
I can use pdb, but if there is something a bit better then I am open to hear
18:37
ok
19:04
vagrantc what does the option --purge-chroot do?
19:04
<vagrantc>
deletes the chroot before building
19:04
e.g. if there's already a chroot, and you try ltsp-build-client again, it will fail
19:04
<bennabiy>
ah, so if it already exists, it overwrites
19:04
ok
19:05
I thought it might remove the source chroot after the image was built
19:05
for those only using squashfs
19:05* vagrantc toys with the idea of rewriting ltsp-build-client as an ansible plybook
19:05
<bennabiy>
that would be wonderful!
19:05
I am wanting to get more into ansible
19:05
I like it better than puppet
19:06
<vagrantc>
i've done a lot of useful things with it, but am at the point where i'll have to really spend some time learning to get to the next level :)
19:07
though, at this point, there isn't much to do with ltsp-build-client ... most of the action is in init-ltsp.d
19:07
it's just down to package selections
19:07
<bennabiy>
I have been impressed with what it can do, but have not had much time to work on it, as I have been doing other things like baking and such for our delis as well as fixing things, but am back in a place where I am more devoted to maintaining technical things
19:08
I have been playing around with illumos kernel as well in smartos, and like the zones etc
19:08
<vagrantc>
whoah
19:08
<bennabiy>
whoah?
19:10* bennabiy puzzles...
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19:18
<vagrantc>
illumos/smartos
19:18
looking to a diverse network :)
19:18
<bennabiy>
yes
19:19
especially interested since kvm / lx containers is almost flawlessly supported
19:19
what don't you like about secure linux environments backed by zfs ?
19:19
<vagrantc>
every once in a while i get a wild hard and install Debian GNU/kFreeBSD or Debian GNU/Hurd :)
19:20
wild hair
19:20
<bennabiy>
HAH!
19:20
I have looked at Debian GNU/Hurd, but after development died off, I did not think it would be productive for me
19:20
The concept is interesting
19:20
<vagrantc>
it's certainly not about being productive :)
19:20
<bennabiy>
nope
19:21
<vagrantc>
though zfs sounds interesting
19:21
<bennabiy>
zfs is very wonderful!
19:21
<||cw>
zfs is pretty cool
19:21
<vagrantc>
but most of the userland on the BSDs is painful ... so stuff with a debian userland is more interesting
19:21
<bennabiy>
Even if all you do is use it to replace rsync, you have saved yourself MUCH bandwidth and such
19:21
<vagrantc>
it feels like a time machine to the 90s
19:21
<bennabiy>
you might like dilos
19:22
debian on illumos
19:22
<vagrantc>
or dyson?
19:22
<bennabiy>
or dyson
19:22* vagrantc thought there were licensing issues with the opensolaris/illumos kernel and GNU userland
19:22
<vagrantc>
CDDL and GPL incompatibilities or something
19:23
<bennabiy>
It is basically forks of everything compiled for illumos
19:23
As long as they build, they are fine, if I remember correctly
19:23
<vagrantc>
yes, technically fine, though the licensing is at best in a legal grey area
19:24
<bennabiy>
I would think Ubuntu would be the bigger target for licensing like that with zfs making it mainstream
19:25
<vagrantc>
it is a hot topic
19:25
<bennabiy>
I am sure, especially on the debian side I am guessing
19:27
I tried to build a fat-client and it locked up on updating the apt
19:27
twice now
19:29
thoughts?
19:30
debugging..
19:30
<vagrantc>
what do you mean by "locked up" ?
19:30
oh, there are some options you might want to pass to ltsp-chroot
19:31
<bennabiy>
After pulling all the updated it just freezes on 0% [Working]
19:31
<vagrantc>
--mount-all
19:32
e.g. ltsp-chroot apt-get update ??
19:32
<bennabiy>
https://paste.ec/paste/UzPOP7h4#tPNrE9IirG7ibJx0X-pU/F0ddzDQe84k4ujcujtERcu
19:32
during the build
19:34
<vagrantc>
doesn't work without javascript :(
19:35
<alkisg>
bennabiy: can you try without all those weird repositories?
19:35
download.opensuse.org etc...
19:35
<bennabiy>
yes
19:35* vagrantc squints
19:36* alkisg googles "squint"... :D
19:36
<alkisg>
Hehe
19:36
<vagrantc>
"the act of squinting; looking with the eyes partly closed"
19:37
<bennabiy>
(3)"the act of compressing integers"
19:38* alkisg would surely look with his eyes partly closed if he had to compress integers...
19:39
<bennabiy>
yes, when I remove --copy-sourceslist it worked
19:39
we'll see if it pulls ubuntu-mate-desktop in
19:39
<alkisg>
Check your server sources.list, it sounds problematic
19:40
<bennabiy>
much of it is from Software Boutique installs, testing things out
19:40* vagrantc Recommends: dict-freedict-eng-ell
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19:47* bennabiy whistles while the client "fattens" up
19:48
<alkisg>
bennabiy: why not ltsp-pnp?
19:49
<bennabiy>
because I have not had much luck with it in the past, considering how I mount everything
19:49
<alkisg>
What do you mean "mount everything"?
19:50
<bennabiy>
I have layered mounts
19:50
and bind mounts
19:50
<alkisg>
Those were solved, weren't they?
19:50
<bennabiy>
and it was breaking the build
19:50
not sure
19:50
been a while since I have tried
19:51
<alkisg>
You can also put things in ltsp-update-image.excludes
19:52
<bennabiy>
yes,
19:53
I guess since this install has not been fully set up yet, it is a little less encumbered by customizations which I don't want to appear in the fat client
19:53
ok booting client
19:55
fat client, the menu appears
19:55
so it is limited to thin clients
19:57
I confirm this that I can log out of the user, with the menu on the mate-panel, log in as the user with thin client, and all that is there is a single pixel, and then log out and log in with a fat client, and it is there again
19:57
all with the same user, and without adding and removing anything
19:59
<alkisg>
Which ltsp version is that?
19:59
mate 16.04?
20:02
<bennabiy>
ubuntu-mate 16.04
20:02
16.04.1
20:03
<alkisg>
and normal redmond menu appears, the problem is in the advanced one, right?
20:03
<bennabiy>
yes
20:04
I have even pulled in the latest version of mate-menu from bitbucket
20:04
<alkisg>
Sounds to me like a problem with the XDG* environment variables
20:04
<bennabiy>
What would be the best way to debug that?
20:04
<alkisg>
Or with the systemd-logind / policykit "active" problem
20:05
I don't think I can specify debug instructions for that issue...
20:05
<bennabiy>
I had the issue with mintmenu in ltsp on 17.3 (14.04 pre systemd) where it would disappear, and it was related to python-xlibs
20:06
<alkisg>
Same issue, it happened only on thin clients?
20:06
<bennabiy>
I was wondering if there is some type of issue where it is not being forwarded over X, but when run local, it works?
20:06
<alkisg>
No
20:07
I don't think that's probable in this case
20:07
<bennabiy>
No, that was global (although I cannot even say that for certain, because I did most of my work from thin clients)
20:07
<alkisg>
Unrelated issue then
20:07
<bennabiy>
and in this case, I get 1 pixel on the screen, where the menu is "running"
20:08
do you have mate install?
20:08
can you fire up a thin client vm and see if it works for you?
20:08
I know it is not just this one lab, as it has happened in two locations now
20:08
<alkisg>
I think I had tried it at that point and it didn't work for me either
20:09
<bennabiy>
as far as I can tell, it was not the python warnings either, as they have been fixed in the latest version, and it still is broken
20:10
what did we come up with to enable passwords on fat clients? LDM_HASHPASS=True?
20:11
<alkisg>
!lts.conf
20:11
<ltsp>
lts.conf: (#1) http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf, or (#2) lts.conf manpage is available in the ltsp-docs package
20:11
<alkisg>
I think it's documented there
20:12
<bennabiy>
yes, thankyou
20:19
hrm... it does not work if the user is in LDAP
20:20
<alkisg>
That's for fat clients, while you're testing thins now, no?
20:24
<bennabiy>
yes
20:24
but I tested a fat client to see if the menu was there, and it was
20:24
but I did not have access to my password, so I could not do other things in it
20:24
it is a side issue
20:25
<alkisg>
So LDM_HASHPASS=True doesn't work for fat clients, if the server is configured to use LDAP logins?
20:25
<bennabiy>
nope (and it is LDM_PASSWORD_HASH as per lts man page)
20:25
<alkisg>
That sounds like a bug, I don't think the code is related to LDAP at all there
20:26
It should just get the pass from the user, hash it, and store it to passwd
20:26
<bennabiy>
yes, but might be the /etc/passwd entry?
20:26
<alkisg>
No server settings or ldap settings involved...
20:27
That's a different issue though, not the hashpass one
20:27
hashpass is about /etc/shadow
20:27
Not about /etc/passwd
20:27
<bennabiy>
yes, but the bug is that the scripts try to pull user info from /etc/passwd
20:28
<alkisg>
The scripts use getent, which also works with ldap, don't they?
20:28
<bennabiy>
that is true
20:28
<alkisg>
It's possible that there are issues with ldap, but not by design
20:28
<bennabiy>
getent works
20:28
<alkisg>
Most of ldap users didn't report any problems there
20:28
<bennabiy>
it worked for me in mint 17
20:28
might just be a regressions because of something else?
20:29
or perhaps the LTS.CONF manpage might have the option documented wrong?
20:29
I just pulled the latest source, I can look
20:29* bennabiy wishes it wasn't so long between development spurts
20:29
<bennabiy>
I forget everything
20:31
nope, LDM_PASSWORD_HASH is correct
20:33
I guess the [default] section at the top of lts.conf is important, eh?
20:33* bennabiy sighs
20:33
<alkisg>
:)
20:34
<bennabiy>
that worked...
20:34
ok no bug
20:34
now back to something different
20:38
ok, so I have fat client booted with menu present, and thin client booted with no menu
20:39
alkisg: you said something about XDG variables... how would I check?
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21:32
<bennabiy>
welcome back vagrantc
21:32
I confirmed, it is only thin clients, it works on fat clients, and everywhere else
21:33
environment variable or something which is different on thin clients than fat?
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21:44
<vagrantc>
DISPLAY
21:45
with a local system, it's likely to be DISPLAY=:0 ... on a thin client DISPLAY=ip.add.dre.s:7 or DIPLAY=localhost:11
21:45
ironically, the latter is for X11 over ssh
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21:54
<bennabiy>
hrm... I guess I can try the X over SSH, and see if it works
22:11
<vagrantc>
might also be due to some XDG_* variables
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