IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 23 August 2009   (all times are UTC)

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03:16
<muh2000>
hi
03:17
what was it to have the bash instead of X on a ltsp client? Screen_0 = shell ?
03:21
al the ltsp client is doing is blinking the error msg of X :(
03:21
and since it is blinking i cannot really read it. only something about dbus not working.
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03:26
<muh2000>
hmm x wants to load module amd.
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04:07
<muh2000>
screenshot what it lookslike in a vm: http://imagebin.ca/view/4RyY1A.html http://imagebin.ca/view/eM8m36Ea.html both are blinking all the time :( dunno what is wrong.
04:08
<ogra>
thats a very old kernel for such a new Xorg ... are you running debian unstable ?
04:09
<muh2000>
squeeze. (testing)
04:09
<ogra>
i think vagrantc doesnt have unstable moved over completely to the new xinput architecture
04:09
<muh2000>
is NOT unstable.
04:09
<ogra>
oh, well, squeeze should actuall work
04:10
<muh2000>
:(
04:10
<ogra>
wait for vagrantc
04:10
<muh2000>
ok
04:10
<ogra>
he does the debian port
04:10
what HW is that ?
04:11
geode ?
04:11
(you said it loads amd above, geode is traditionally very problematic wrt Xorg drivers, you could try setting XSERVER=vesa and see if it boots with that)
04:13
<muh2000>
yes geode that computer http://www.pcengines.ch/alix3d3.htm yeah the vga made lots of trouble in the past :( i try vesa.
04:13
( xserver = geode used to work in the past)
04:16
<ogra>
well, there is no actual upstream support for geode, thats the prob, if xserver grows new features it can take quite a while until geode works with them
04:16
<muh2000>
also blinking with vesa.
04:16
<ogra>
ok, then its not the driver at least
04:16
(if you are sure it actually loaded vesa)
04:17
<muh2000>
ogra: i checked, it did NOT load vesa. still amd :(
04:19
<ogra>
oh, i see that a) a new ltsp migrated to testing yesterday and b) a new ldm was uploaded to unstable too
04:19
<muh2000>
hmmm
04:19
<ogra>
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/1352
04:20
<muh2000>
when i try to update the system it always hangs at xserver configuration and portmap and fam and one more.
04:20
<ogra>
is hal installed in your chroot
04:20
<muh2000>
yes
04:22
<ogra>
have a look at /opt/ltsp/armel/etc/default/ltsp-client-setup
04:22
err
04:22
s/armel/i386/ (sorry only running arm clients here atm)
04:22
does it contain /var/cache/hald ?
04:23
<muh2000>
http://nopaste.org/p/ahgRsBnrJ
04:23
nah
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04:23
<ogra>
try adding that dir to rw_dirs for a test
04:24
and /var/lib/dbus/ too
04:24
<muh2000>
k rebooting the client.
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04:25
<muh2000>
same error, still trying to load amd
04:26
<ogra>
still blinking i guess
04:26
<muh2000>
yes
04:27
<ogra>
well, you could try going through the changes in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/changes that hapened since 5.1.81 (which seems to be whats in testing) and see if anything helps
04:28
i know the 5.1.83 we have in ubuntu karmic largely works (though i havent heard feedback from geode users yet)
04:28
<muh2000>
i try
04:29
<ogra> does it contain /var/cache/hald ? there is a type. only "hal" not "hald" according to launchpad.
04:29
<ogra>
nope
04:29
look a little above it ;)
04:30
<muh2000>
lol ok
04:30
<ogra>
(1342)
04:30
i implemented the hal and dbus stuff in ubuntu a while ago so i know the dirs :)
04:30
<muh2000>
:)
04:30
where is that ? client/initscripts/ltsp-core
04:30
<ogra>
(we use the setup debian just switches to since a year or so)
04:31
in /etc/init.d/ in your chroot
04:31
<muh2000>
i dont have that file :/
04:32
<ogra>
look for ltsp-client-core
04:32
<muh2000>
yeah i have that
04:32
<ogra>
and ltsp-client-setup, that are the names in debian and ubuntu
04:32
<muh2000>
ok
04:32
<ogra>
one runs in rcS the other in rc2
04:33
-core is what actually starts ldm (or any other screen scripts)
04:35
<muh2000>
server/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Debian/095-squashfs-image also cannot find. well squashfs shouldnt be related to the issue i am having anyway...
04:36
<ogra>
not really unless you switched your setup to nbd
04:36
<muh2000>
dunno
04:37
<ogra>
the ltsp-build-client plugins live on the server btw, not in the chroot
04:37
well, do you use NFS ? (then you dont use nbd)
04:37
<muh2000>
nfs it is.
04:37
<ogra>
i think its the default in debian to use NFS
04:37
<muh2000>
but it always had nbd running and installing too. i dont know why, i cannot look through this.
04:37
<ogra>
right, ubuntu defaults to nbd ... its way faster and uses less bandwith (but requires a bit more client CPU)
04:38
afaik ubuntu and suses kiwi-ltsp are the only implementations defaulting to nbd
04:38
<muh2000>
ok
04:42
i tried to fix as much as possible but still that stupid blinking bug :(
04:47
<ogra>
https://launchpad.net/~q-funk/+archive/ppa would be another option, but i dont know how well they work in debian
04:49
but the git versioning looks like its only 5 days old
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04:49
<alkisg>
Hi ogra, got 5' to comment on a crazy idea of mine about fat clients?
04:50
<ogra>
if it only commenting and not committing ;)
04:50
<alkisg>
Sure :)
04:50
Well, it goes like this: there's 1 "server" pc with just a desktop ubuntu on it. No ltsp, no chroots.
04:51
In this PC I install nfs and export /.
04:51
I also put a small script like ltsp-client-setup in init.d
04:51
Then I put dnsmasq/tftp and netboot some clients. The clients run the ltsp-client-setup (of sorts) script and get a tmpfs on the needed locations (/var/tmp etc)
04:52
This way, *if it works* I can have a fat client lab by only administering 1 PC
04:52
<ogra>
would work if you exported / readonly and had some sort of unionfs mount with a tmpfs
04:52
<alkisg>
And I can even have shared user account because /etc/passwd is shared with nfs (along with all the /etc)
04:52
Security is of no concern (I know it sucks security-wise)
04:52
<ogra>
the prob is that NFS and any kind of union mounts are no good friends
04:53
<alkisg>
I was thinking of nfs and bind mounts only
04:53
All rw space would be in an nfs rw share
04:53
<ogra>
thats a hell lot of work
04:53
largely re-implementing ltsp :)
04:53
<alkisg>
Really? I thought ltsp-client-setup would be all that I needed...
04:53
<ogra>
and it will take ages to boot
04:53
<alkisg>
Basically, I tried it and it works; and fast; but only with 2 clients
04:53
I didn't try more
04:54
<ogra>
because you will have to bind mount a huge amount more stuff
04:54
<alkisg>
Isn't all necessary locations already in ltsp-client-setup?
04:54
<ogra>
for getting up X, ldm and a minimal system, yes
04:55
<alkisg>
Ah.
04:55
<ogra>
if you want a whole desktop you will have to do a lot more
04:55
<alkisg>
Should I try with nfs / read-only, or read-write?
04:55
<ogra>
and the bind mounting of while dirs takes ages
04:55
<alkisg>
(I really don't care about security :))
04:55
<ogra>
readonly
04:55
it will very likely break if you do it rw
04:56* alkisg tried with rw so far... :-/
04:56
<ogra>
hw related autodetection will overwrite each other etc
04:56
you will very quickly mess up your server install
04:56
<alkisg>
ogra, so, if I give it enough time, do you think I will be able to get it to work? (ok, ro / nfs)
04:56
Or are there shared locations where it will break no matter what I do?
04:57
<ogra>
sure, but it will take you as long as re-implementing ltsp until you have chaken out all bugs
04:57
*shaken
04:57
<alkisg>
Hmmm I thought I'd only have to do mounts... :(
04:57
<ogra>
no, it wont break if / is exported readonly
04:58
<alkisg>
What about nfs-shared /etc/passwd? That would work, won't it? (again, no security-concerns...)
04:58
<ogra>
i'd recommend using something like livecd-rootfs, hack that up a bit and have an nbd image of a full desktop install instead, then hack up ltsp to support that
04:58
that would be a proper fat client
04:59
<alkisg>
I'm trying to avoid maintaing a chroot, to ease administration for teachers
04:59
<ogra>
well, then you have to write it from scratch
04:59
ltsp from concept to first usable releae took us a year with 4 developers, two of them fulltime
05:00
so do your math :)
05:00
<alkisg>
Sure, I don't mind the work. I'm just worried for the case where I'll invest much time and hit a wall somewhere, and it can't be done...
05:00
<ogra>
you will surely find probs you never saw in ltsp
05:00
<alkisg>
This won't have anything to do with hardware, sound, ldm etc though
05:00
Only mounting stuff...
05:00
<ogra>
udev rules that get created at install time for example
05:01
<alkisg>
Yeah I had to clear net-rules...
05:01
<ogra>
for sure it will have to do a lot with HW
05:01
and even more in newer releases
05:02
<alkisg>
I meant detecting stuff, loading modules etc like ltsp does. All the hardware stuff would be on /var/project/mac-address/etc/nfs-bind-mounted-dir...
05:02
<ogra>
i'd go with something like a livecd and ldap setup
05:02
<alkisg>
Hmmm that doesn't sound bad...
05:02
<ogra>
yes, as i said, you can do that but will end up with something ltsp like
05:03
and it will take a lot of time to identify all the probs you run into that are caused by that setup
05:03
<alkisg>
Yeah that last one is what I'm afraid the most
05:03
OK thanks a lot ogra, it's really good having a pro-dev handy :) :) :)
05:03
Much appreciated
05:04
<ogra>
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDNetboot btw
05:08* alkisg looks.. also btw, drbl does something like what I have in mind, but it seems to me that they do it in very broken ways...
05:09
<ogra>
they do
05:09
and its sad that they didnt just contribute to ltsp to do it proper
05:10* alkisg also netbooted ubuntu from http once
05:10
<ogra>
there is also tcos that does it in differently freaky ways :)
05:10
<alkisg>
Heh. tcos is for thin clients, not fat. And for thin clients... ltsp ftw!
05:11
<ogra>
right, but tcos could be changed to do fat clients (like ltsp could )
05:11
<alkisg>
But for core 2 duo CPUs it's a shame to work them as thin clients
05:11
A "correct" fat client solution should emerge...
05:12
Localapps are ok but not for full-blown setups. E.g. I have to install 4 Gb of proprietary edu apps, I can't install them as localapps...
05:12
<ogra>
geez, Larry Ellison's salary was cut to $1 !
05:12
must be hard to be the owner of a company nowadays ... you cant earn any money :P
05:12
<alkisg>
Heh would it make any difference for him if it was 100.000$ ?
05:13
<ogra>
i doubt it :)
05:13
<alkisg>
...with an estimated net worth of $22.5 billion :D
05:13
<ogra>
he apparently earned a million/year before
05:14* ogra wonders how that looks in a CV ... in my last job my salary was cut by $999999 once
05:14* alkisg wonders what would Ellison need a CV for!
05:15
<ogra>
you never know how far this recession might go *g*
05:15
<alkisg>
Still no announces about OOo and vbox though... :-/
05:15
<ogra>
well, he would be silly to kill either
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05:21
<Q-FUNK>
re
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05:24
<Q-FUNK>
stgraber: here?
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05:29
<DawnLight>
hello
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05:32
<DawnLight>
RRQ from 192.168.55.3 filename /lts.conf
05:32
this is what the client asks the tftp server for
05:33
and the server doesn't find it because i didn't put it there
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06:09
<DawnLight>
the client is looking for /lts.conf while it should look for /ltsp/i386/lts.conf
06:13
<alkisg>
DawnLight: distro/version?
06:14
<DawnLight>
alkisg: ubuntu jaunty
06:15
<alkisg>
DawnLight: the lts.conf location is determined from the "filename" dhcp option
06:15
<DawnLight>
what determines the path where lts.conf is asked?
06:15
<alkisg>
So, look (or upload) your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
06:15
<DawnLight>
alkisg: well, i've this in my dnsmasq.conf:
06:15
<alkisg>
dnsmasq handles the tftp paths differently
06:15
Do you use the dnsmasq embedded tftp service, or tftp-hpa?
06:16
<DawnLight>
dhcp-boot=net:pxe,/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
06:16
tftp-hpa
06:16
<alkisg>
OK, let me find the line for dnsmasq...
06:16
<DawnLight>
i think i know how to look
06:16
<alkisg>
It's: tftp-root=/ltsp/i386
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06:16
<alkisg>
You put than in dnsmasq.conf
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06:17
<DawnLight>
alkisg: where did you get that?
06:17
<alkisg>
What do you mean?
06:17
<DawnLight>
i look in 'dnsmasq --help dhcp'
06:17
there's no such thing there
06:18
<alkisg>
man dnsmasq => search for tftp-root
06:18
<DawnLight>
that option seems to be for the built-in tftp server
06:18
while what i need is the dhcp option
06:19
<alkisg>
Hmmm you may be right; but I have it in my dnsmasq.conf and it works for me
06:19
<DawnLight>
which seems to be 67
06:19
<alkisg>
Let me see what other options I have there...
06:19
<DawnLight>
well do you use the buil-in?
06:19
<alkisg>
No
06:19
Ah, here's another one that might trouble you: dhcp-no-override
06:19
If you don't enable that, then ipconfig can't get the filename from option 67
06:20
<DawnLight>
dnsmasq --help dhcp | grep 67
06:20
<alkisg>
Because it can only get the filename from the embeded option space in the dhcp struct
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06:20
<alkisg>
Do you have dhcp-no-override?
06:20
<DawnLight>
nope
06:20
<alkisg>
OK, that's your problem then
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06:21
<alkisg>
It's a "bug" in ipconfig; there are 2 way to provide a filename in the dhcp protocol; ipconfig only looks in one of them.
06:22* alkisg notes down that he doesn't need tftp-root after all :)
06:25
<DawnLight>
i added dhcp-option=67,/ltsp/i386/
06:26
<alkisg>
? and it worked without dhcp-no-override?
06:28
<DawnLight>
doesn't work yet
06:28
<alkisg>
Did you try putting a line with just "dhcp-no-override" there?
06:28
...and of course, dhcp-boot=/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
06:32
<DawnLight>
trying
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06:35
<alkisg>
DawnLight: ah. another thing. How do you define your pxe class?
06:35
Because the ipconfig client in the initramfs sends "Linux ipconfig" as a vendor identifier, not "PXEClient"...
06:37
<DawnLight>
what is ipconfig anyway?
06:37
<alkisg>
It's the program that asks for an ip while the clients boot
06:37
<DawnLight>
ah
06:37
that may be the problem
06:37
because it still asks for /lts.conf
06:37
<alkisg>
Well if you uploaded your dnsmasq.conf I might be able to help more...
06:39
<DawnLight>
dhcp-vendorclass=pxe,PXEClient , dhcp-boot=net:pxe,/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0 , dhcp-no-override
06:39
three lines
06:39
besides the basic dhcp lease stuff
06:40
<alkisg>
Yeah either remove the net: pxe in dhcp-boot, or include Linux ipconfig in the dhcp-vendorclass
06:41
<DawnLight>
trying
06:44
huh
06:44
amazing
06:45
it worksez
06:45
thanks
06:46
<alkisg>
You''re welcome.
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06:49
<garymc>
Hi anyone know what the guys name is whop knows stuff about LTSP cluster?
06:50
Also can anyone recommend a good FREE Irc client? As i was using Xchat and cos its run out im using Airc which aint so user freindly
06:50
<DawnLight>
garymc: irssi
06:50
<garymc>
does that work in windows?
06:50
<DawnLight>
yes
06:51
<laga>
mirc? ;)
06:51
<garymc>
cool
06:51
ill get it now
06:53
is there just a file for windows cos im finding all compile stuff as if for Linux?
06:58
<DawnLight>
garymc: http://irssi.org/files/irssi-win32-0.8.12.exe
06:59
<garymc>
thanks
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07:04
<garymc>
What a killer, didnt like the irrsi
07:04
aint a clue on its use
07:05
<laga>
ry mirc
07:05
try*
07:05
<garymc>
anyone know of a more user freidnly Irc
07:05
yeah i gotta pay for that too though
07:06
<laga>
i think there's chatzilla for mozilla/firefox
07:06
<garymc>
ill give that a look now then
07:08
<NeonLicht>
I can't think of anyone better than irssi
07:08* laga nods
07:08
<NeonLicht>
so light, fast and responsive!
07:08* laga nods
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07:15
<garymc>
Ahhh Chatzilla is cool
07:15
Ill stick with this
07:18
so anyone know who is the LTSP CLuster master?
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07:21
<garymc>
Sorry to be a pain in the arse but does anyone know why I keep having to identify my username with password each time i connect?
07:22
to freenode?
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07:26
<knipwim>
i think to prevent someone else from using your nick
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07:44
<garymc>
yeah but i dint have to do it all the time in Xchat
07:44
now i do in every other Irc client?
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07:45
<garymc>
well atleast i can get back on irc now :)
07:45
so anyone know anything about LTSP clustering?
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07:53
<knipwim>
garymc: https://wiki.stgraber.org/LTSP-Cluster
07:54
so i think stgraber might know something
07:59
<garymc>
ahh thats the guy
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08:03
<garymc>
stgraber: If you can help me with Server clustering , would be much appreciated
08:11
<alkisg>
garymc: the developers here are very friendly, but they don't have all the time in the world. They can sometimes help when some one has a specific question, but they usually don't have the time to walk everybody through every steps
08:12
So you'd have better chances if you read the docs, if you tried yourself to do it and came here with specific problems/questions
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10:21
<jammcq>
g'morning friends
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12:04
<NeonLicht>
eertyuijjj→↓←
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12:05
<NeonLicht>
łĸ
12:06
Sorry, trying to practice writting phonetic (IPA) symbols. :-)
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20:00
<cliebow>
yes..we throw human sacrifices into the ocean here in acacdia national park to appease hurricane gods..
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23:20
<alkisg>
Good morning
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<sbalneav>
ogra: About>
23:21
?
23:27
<jammcq>
sbalneav: hey
23:28
<sbalneav>
hey jammcq!
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