IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 3 January 2012   (all times are UTC)

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14:25
<mgariepy>
happy new year everyone !
14:26
<stgraber>
hey mgariepy
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14:30
<veloutin>
hi mgariepy !
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14:48
<rwmarch>
happy new year to all
14:48
<alkisg>
Happy new year!
14:56
So Gadi some teachers asked me to implement a virtualbox screen script
14:56
...where a single windows VM is used for ALL clients
14:57
<Gadi>
so I hear
14:57
:)
14:57
<alkisg>
:D
14:57
Or a KVM one, it shouldn't be much different
14:57* Gadi thinks kvm would require less install
14:57
<Gadi>
but, both should have equivalent scripts
14:57
and we can see if there is a real difference
14:57
performance wise
14:57
<alkisg>
With virtualbox, it's possible to have a read only base disk, and shared folders for the user home, and a differencial (cow) rw disk
14:58
<Gadi>
same with kvm
14:58
<alkisg>
I suppose those would be possible with kvm too?
14:58
Good
14:58
<Gadi>
kvm = qemu
14:58
and qemu had that for a while
14:58
qcow2 and the like
14:58
<alkisg>
The problem with kvm is that it's incompatible with virtualbox afaik, so I can't even test it in my laptop... :(
14:58
<Gadi>
really?
14:59
<rwmarch>
Does anyone have experience with the Disklessworkstations TERM 1720 model. I have invested in them and attempting to use them on a Ubuntu 10.04 server (LTSP5). I am having display resolution problems with these devices attached to flat panel displays.
14:59
<Gadi>
meaning you can install one or the other but not both?
14:59
rwmarch: did my response to the list make it to you yet?
14:59
<alkisg>
Yes... or maybe only one of the modules can be loaded... I don't remember the error messages
14:59
<Gadi>
you need to use: XRANDR_MODE_0
14:59
XRANDR_OUTPUT_0
14:59
(note the single digit)
15:00
alkisg: ok
15:00
<alkisg>
So Gadi I'll start with the vbox script, and if you ever have time, you can try the kvm one
15:00
<Gadi>
ok
15:00
<rwmarch>
No, but I will look again.
15:01
<Gadi>
alkisg: vbox will run whether you have vt hardware or not, right?
15:01
<alkisg>
Right
15:01
So I was thinking, share /home with NFS, so that people have access to the .vdi image,
15:01
<rwmarch>
Yes, I discovered the single digit issue since my post. But that seemed not to make a difference.
15:02
<alkisg>
e.g. /home/teacher/Virtualbox/winxp/winxp.vdi,
15:02
And then use something like SCREEN_07=virtualbox /home/teacher/Virtualbox/winxp/winxp.vdi
15:02
<Gadi>
rwmarch: what does your lts.conf look like?
15:03
alkisg: would each user have a different vdi img in their homedir?
15:03
<alkisg>
Nope
15:03
<Gadi>
where is the base?
15:03
<alkisg>
The .vdi disk is there in e.g. the teacher folder
15:04
The .vbox VM xml description is in the same folder, for the teacher to administer the VM, but it's not used by the clients,
15:04
...the virtualbox screen script would generate a .vbox VM for them at boot
15:04
vboxmanage createvm etc etc, with the teacher .vdi as the read-only base
15:05
So if the teacher wants to install a program, he'd shut down the clients, boot his vm, install the program, boot the clients, and it would be there for all of them
15:05
No AD or windows servers or remote desktop or anything complicated involved at all
15:05
<Gadi>
ok. I would not assume the "teacher folder" (or the base img folder) to be anywhere
15:06
ie. make that variable
15:06
<alkisg>
(05:02:27 μμ) alkisg: And then use something like SCREEN_07=virtualbox /home/teacher/Virtualbox/winxp/winxp.vdi
15:06
A parameter to the screen script
15:06
<Gadi>
ok, and NFS_EXTRAMOUNTS or whatever it is can mount that dir as needed
15:06
<alkisg>
If one wants to mount that with NBD, we could
15:07
Yes the mount method would be unrelated to the vbox script
15:07* Gadi nods
15:07
<alkisg>
Do you think we'll need a user account, to run vbox on the client? Or we just run it as root?
15:07
<Gadi>
the perennial question
15:08
I wrestled with that with "kiosk", too
15:08
at first pass, make it run as root
15:08
then, we'll see
15:09
<alkisg>
Maybe we can have some extra ltsp command that takes care of that... for any suitable screen script
15:09
ok
15:09
<rwmarch>
Gadi: Now /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf is empty except for the Default section at the top.
15:09
<alkisg>
rwmarch: don't have empty sections, they're considered syntax errors
15:09
(even if they have comments)
15:10
<Gadi>
rwmarch: when you log in at that thin client and run "xrandr" in a terminal, what are the outputs shown?
15:11
<rwmarch>
Yes, I learned that empty sections cause syntax messages. I presume that this however does not upset parsing.
15:12
xrandr shows all the expected resolutions for a both interfaces, VGA and DVI.
15:14
XRANDR_OUTPUT_0=LVDS1 "--off" I found to be an improvement. Not sure what it does.
15:15
<Gadi>
rwmarch: what are the exact names of the outputs?
15:15
ie: VGA-1
15:15
or some such
15:15
and which do you use?
15:15
ie which do you actually plug in?
15:16
<rwmarch>
I now have a TERM 1720 display OK on a client attached to Ubuntu 10.10.
15:16
<Gadi>
ok. In general:
15:16
you can name the outputs in lts.conf with:
15:16
<rwmarch>
Using the DVI connection. The VGA connection was problematic in terms of resolution.
15:17
<Gadi>
XRANDR_OUTPUT_0 = "VGA1"
15:17
XRANDR_OUTPUT_1 = "DVI1"
15:17
XRANDR_OUTPUT_2 = "LVDS1 --off" (turns off a phantom LVDS output)
15:17
<alkisg>
Gadi, I think that allowing the users to run arbitrary xrandr commands would be much easier and flexible than defining XRANDR* variables... wouldn't it?
15:18
<Gadi>
then, you can set the modes for the corresponding outputs:
15:18
so, for VGA:
15:18
XRANDR_MODE_0 = 1280x1024
15:18
or for DVI:
15:18
XRAND_MODE_1 = 1024x768
15:18
like that
15:19
if you want one of them to be off completely, you can add the "--off" after its name when you name it
15:19
the name must correspond to the name in the output of xrandr
15:19
<rwmarch>
These XRANDR options I have not tried. Will do. Unfortunately I do not have access to the system at the moment.
15:19
<Gadi>
not an arbitrary name
15:19
ok
15:19
but, that's the idea
15:20
<alkisg>
...unrelated note... it would also be nice if we could have a package that allowed non-ltsp clients to be configured with certain lts.conf commands
15:20
<Gadi>
alkisg: by the code, one could put the entire custom xrandr command stuffed into a single XRANDR_OUTPUT_0 variable
15:21
alkisg: but, for most simple use cases, most users want a single parameter to change resolution
15:21
like XRANDR_MODE_0
15:21
<alkisg>
E.g. I have a class with 5 ltsp clients, and 7 non-ltsp clients, and I want to set 1024x768 to all of them... it'd be nice if I could do that with just one lts.conf
15:21
<Gadi>
you can
15:21
in his case, there is a bug in his driver
15:21
<alkisg>
Gadi: I haven't found a way to add a new mode AND use it with the XRANDR commands
15:21
<Gadi>
but, if the drivers behave
15:22
you just say XRANDR_MODE_0 = 1024x768
15:22
<rwmarch>
OK. I will try these variables. Is there something peculiar about these client boxes? I have been using LTSP for many years (albeit version 4.2) and I have never had so much display trouble. I was expecting "out of the box" operation from Disklessworkstations.
15:22
<alkisg>
xrandr --newmode xxx; xrandr --addmode VGA1 xxx; xrandr --output VGA1 --mode xxx
15:22
<Gadi>
alkisg: adding modes is an advanced task that should not have to be done
15:22
<alkisg>
=> I don't think I can do that with lts.conf
15:22
<Gadi>
you can, it is just not obvoious
15:22
*obvious
15:22
<alkisg>
How?
15:24
<Gadi>
you can say: XRANDR_OUTPUT_0 = "VGA1 --newmode xxx --addmode VGA1 xxx --mode xxx"
15:24
right
15:24
that works on one line, no?
15:24
<alkisg>
I don't think so
15:24
<Gadi>
oh
15:24
well, if you need multiple xrandr lines, then, yeah, we can't
15:25
<alkisg>
Would it work if I tried XRANDR_OUTPUT_1=VGA1 and continued the command there?
15:25
<Gadi>
heh
15:25
yeah, probably
15:25
<alkisg>
:)
15:26
Basically my problem is that we don't share customization methods with regular installations
15:26
So I need to configure ltsp clients one way, and non-ltsp clients another way
15:26
But I like the "allow some lts.conf directives to be applied to non-ltsp clients" idea better :)
15:27
<Gadi>
noted
15:27
:)
15:27
but, do non-ltsp clients respect lts.conf?
15:28
<alkisg>
Currently, no, but we could split ltsp into a "configuration" package, seperated from the "boot from the network" package
15:28
<Gadi>
perhaps what you really mean, is that either ltsp should cover standalone machines, or some lts.conf parameters should not actually be handled by ltsp
15:30
<rwmarch>
In my case, I find that XRANDR_MODE_0 = 1024x768 has no effect. Either the resolution is still wrong or the display is off screen to the right or left.
15:30
Also tried the many different resolutions in the BIOS with no success.
15:32
Is there something peculiar about the model TERM 1720?
15:32
<Gadi>
rwmarch: your particular client has a video driver issue in that it has a phantom output for LVDS
15:32
rwmarch: that is why you need the LVDS1 --off
15:32
to turn that off
15:32
with it on, it will try to determine resolution by the LVDS output which is a fixed panel resolution
15:32
that does not exists
15:33
:)
15:33
*exist
15:33
so, it is altogether wrong
15:33
<rwmarch>
OK. So that why I found some improvement when I turned off LVDS1.
15:33
<Gadi>
with that turned off, you should then be able to set the mode to one of the detected modes
15:34
now, some drivers fail to properly get modes from the monitor when using DVI
15:34
I have seen that before, too
15:34
but, either way,
15:34
with LVDS turned off,
15:34
if you log in and run: xrandr
15:34
from a terminal
15:35
you will see the two remaining outputs and what modes it detected
15:35
and then, you can tell it which one you want
15:35
<rwmarch>
In one permutation I did get the right display except that the Ubuntu panels top and bottom would not appear until $ xrandr -s 1024x768.
15:35
Then they appeared.
15:36
<Gadi>
ah, so in that case, your resolution and your "virtual screen area" where not right
15:36
ie, your display went beyond the boundaries of the monitor
15:36
I bet if you moved the mouse all the way up, it would then "pan"
15:36
and you would see things
15:36
<rwmarch>
Of course, I cannot expect my users to fiddle with display settings when they login -- sometimes via LTSP and sometimes otherwise.
15:36
<Gadi>
of course not
15:37
and you wont have to
15:37
just explaining what you are seeing here
15:37
:)
15:37
<rwmarch>
Yes, but the mouse would not cause panning. Tried that many times.
15:37
<Gadi>
if you like, _UsUrPeR_ and some others here are from disklessworkstations.com, so they can help you in real time
15:37
with that unit
15:38* _UsUrPeR_ HAS BEEN SUMMONED
15:38* Gadi wishes _UsUrPeR_ a happy new year
15:38
<Gadi>
:)
15:38
<_UsUrPeR_>
same to you bud
15:38
<Gadi>
_UsUrPeR_: rwmarch has one of your units that needs the LVDS turned off and the right BIOS settings to make the magic happen
15:38
rwmarch: meet _UsUrPeR_
15:39
:)
15:39
<_UsUrPeR_>
well hello there
15:39
what unit do you have?
15:39
<rwmarch>
Hello _UsUrPeR_
15:39
<_UsUrPeR_>
rwmarch: ^^
15:39
<rwmarch>
1720
15:40
<_UsUrPeR_>
rwmarch: Shoot support@disklessworkstations.com an email, and I can respond with a script which will fix your issue
15:41
<rwmarch>
OK. Will do.
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16:11
<_UsUrPeR_>
rwmarch: got your email and replied. Let me know if you have any problems
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16:27
<rwmarch>
_UsUrPeR_: Thank you will do. In your email you say that the script works for "all versions of Ubuntu past 10.04". So this excludes 10.04??
16:27
<_UsUrPeR_>
rwmarch, yes. 10.04 included :)
16:28
<rwmarch>
OK. So that was a mis-statement in your email. 10.04 is NOT excluded.
16:47
<_UsUrPeR_>
correct
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16:50
<_UsUrPeR_>
rwmarch: correct
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18:27
<ncd209>
hey which is the file where rdp is told to connect to
18:27
i forgot
18:28
ah lts.conf
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18:45
<ncd209>
hrrm
18:46
how do i make my changes to lts.conf perminant
18:47
ah ltsp-update-image
18:47
yyay lol
18:47
i thought I would never get to go home
18:48
<alkisg>
No need for ltsp-update-image
18:48
Just put your lts.conf to /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
18:49
<ncd209>
i do not have it
18:57
<alkisg>
Create it
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