IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 25 May 2012   (all times are UTC)

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02:50
<Fuzai>
Is there a distro out there that uses uclibc for the ltsp thinclients instead of glibc so the images are alot smaller?
02:51
i'll brb
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03:53
<alkisg>
Fuzai: are you talking about the ram size or the network disk size?
03:53
<Fuzai>
network disk size
03:54
right now my image is at 420 mb
03:54
<alkisg>
Why would that matter? I have images of 5GB that 64mb-ram-clients can use...
03:54
<Fuzai>
I would like to boot over VPN
03:54
i've got it working, it's just really slow
03:54
<alkisg>
You can use an nbd compressed image, ubuntu's one is at about 220 mb
03:55
<Fuzai>
Oh that's right nbd doesn't have it's compression on by default
03:55
<alkisg>
But if the boot is slow, the session would be too slow to work with
03:55
<Fuzai>
hey thanks for the localapps info from the other day btw, that helped tremendously
03:56
<alkisg>
It didn't from ubuntu 10.10 and up to 11.10. Other than those versions, compression was/is on by default
03:56
*from ubuntu 9.10 to 11.10
03:56
<Fuzai>
i'm on 12/04
03:56
12.04
03:56
I was reading it was off by default in 12.04 but it works fine
03:57
<alkisg>
It's on by default in 12.04, where did you read about off?
03:57
<Fuzai>
I'm not sure i'm trying to track it down now
03:58
<alkisg>
If you put localapps inside the image and it's 420 mb, it's compressed
03:58
The uncompressed without localapps is about 700
03:59
<Fuzai>
Ok
03:59
yea I put google-chrome and vlc in the image
03:59
oh and some samba stuff
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05:31
<mealstrom>
good morning
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07:37
<alkisg>
Since we're using nbd-server for swap now, we no longer need nbdswapd keepalive in /etc/hosts.allow, right?
07:53
stgraber: Hi, I just pushed /usr/sbin/ltsp-config and I'm ready to start testing, debugging etc, would you have any packaging ready before the weekend, or should I test with my own local debian/ dir?
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07:55
<alkisg>
Btw if anyone here would like to help with the ltsp-* man pages, I can spend some time to give him a few hints and commit his changes...
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11:20* Hyperbyte eats a Greek salad and thinks of alkisg
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13:18
<stgraber>
alkisg: I highly doubt I'll have time to work on LTSP during work today, so I think you're better off testing with your local debian/ dir
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13:26
<wim_>
hi, i tried to create a new ltsp client environment with 'ltsp-build-client --purge-chroot --dist wheezy --chroot wheezy'. now i get this error
13:26
E: Release signed by unknown key (key id AED4B06F473041FA)
13:26
error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
13:26
I installed already a few images weeks ago and I never had this error. I have the latest wheezy updates. How can I solve this? TXS
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13:34
<jammcq>
knipwim: ping
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13:34
<jammcq>
bengoa: hey!!!
13:35
<bengoa>
jammcq: hey hey buddy
13:35
<jammcq>
nice to see you hanging out here in #ltsp
13:35
<bengoa>
I'm always here
13:36
ready to get to road?
13:37
<jammcq>
yes,just packing my stuff now
13:37
<bengoa>
cool
13:38
send best wishes for our best canadian friend and tear down the wall :)
13:41
<jammcq>
yep
13:42
<highvoltage>
/wi/win 12
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13:44
<tarzeau_>
there's no more "select host" in ldm?
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13:52
<mealstrom>
how to add new mode(1280x1024) via lts to thin client with nouveau driver? max one is 1024*768
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14:47
<mealstrom>
how to add new mode(1280x1024) via lts to thin client with nouveau driver? max one is 1024*768
14:47
i can add it manualy via xrandr --newmode | addmode
14:49
<ogra_>
man lts.conf (if you have ltsp-docs installed)
14:49
there are XRANDR options you can set
14:50
<mealstrom>
if i set xrandr_mode to 1280x1024 -- nothing happens
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14:54
<mealstrom>
i cant get more then 1024x768 resolution on monitor with normal 1280x1024
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15:06
<mealstrom>
what is valid string for xrandr_newmode_01 ? something like ="1280x1024_60.00" 109.00 1280 1368 1496 1712 1024 1027 1034 1063 -hsync +vsync &
15:06
?
15:09
omg. no luck with this (
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15:30
<mealstrom>
alkis: hi, you sad yesterday that there is no problem with setting right resolution on client machine at thin client. Can you help me with this? Ive got max resolution of 1024x768 and prefered one is 1280x1024. When i manually from clients console add this resolution -- it works. lts.conf http://pastebin.com/tgJDmRvX xrandr: http://pastebin.com/xCdWGVqG
15:43
<alkisg>
mealstrom: use <tab> to autocomplete the user names so that their client beeps when you "ping" them
15:43
mealstrom: what version is the chroot? 10.10?
15:43
<mealstrom>
sorry, no sound
15:43
yes
15:44
ive tryed with 10.04 and 10.10
15:44
<alkisg>
So you can't add new modes with XRANDR_*
15:44
You need X_MODE_0=<mode> in this case
15:44
<mealstrom>
xrandr only for 11XX ?
15:44
<alkisg>
No, just new modes
15:45
<mealstrom>
ok. ill try now
15:45
<alkisg>
Also, when you say that it works manually, how do you add the mode?
15:45
XRANDR_COMMAND_x support was added in Ubuntu 12.04, it doesn't exist in 10.xx or 11.xx
15:46
CONFIGURE_X=TRUE ==> you shouldn't put that if you're trying xrandr
15:46
<mealstrom>
cvt 1280 124 ; xrandr --newmode "fron cvt"; xarndr --newmode "name" ; xrandr -s 1280_1024
15:47
<alkisg>
Nice, you could do that with XRANDR_COMMAND_x too, but only in 12.04+
15:47
Did you try with HORZSYNC/VERTREFRESH?
15:47
<mealstrom>
yes. same result
15:47
im trying now thith CONFIGURE_X=FALSE
15:48
<alkisg>
Wait wait where did the nvidia XSERVER go?
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15:48
<alkisg>
Didn't you put the nvidia drivers in the chroot?
15:49
<mealstrom>
alkisg: i've changed monitor for better one -- everything worked ok. Now im trying to understand what nouveau works \
15:49
<kleewyck>
I have a ltsp server running Ubuntu 11.10 and my clients seem to work just fine. When update to 12.04 I have no audio on my clients. Anyone had this issue?
15:50
<alkisg>
mealstrom: if you install the nvidia drivers in the chroot, those install their own libraries, so you shouldn't be using other XSERVERs when the nvidia drives are installed in the chroot
15:50
mealstrom: so if you want nouveau, uninstall nvidia from the chroot and run ltsp-update-image
15:51
<mealstrom>
alkisg: i've done this. nvidia puts nouveau blacklisted at /etc/modprobe
15:52
alkisg: X_MODE_0=1280x1024 how to set modeline for this mode?
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16:08
<mnevans_>
Hello LTSP World.
16:08
After a week of ubuntu 12.04 and UNity I would like to run Debian, and squeeze (now unstable, but hopefully soon stable).
16:09
I am testing things on a backup server install.
16:09
I get an error trying to do ltsp-build-client: Release signed by unknown key.
16:10
A google search turned up a solution: ltsp-build-client --accept-unsigned-packages.
16:10
<||cw>
you know you can make it use gnome-classic right?
16:10
<mnevans_>
This worked once but then I had to download and install drivers for my second enet card (realtek 8169).
16:11
Now I went to retry ltsp-build-client and I get the same error even with the --accept-unsigned-packages switch.
16:11
Suggestions?
16:13
@cw, yes, I know that, but there are a lot of other things, like xpdf gives a seg fault, matlab install is problematic...
16:17
<kleewyck>
Does anyone have a good way of debugging Audio driver issues on the Thin Client?
16:18
<alkisg>
kleewyck: get a local shell on the client and check if it has sound there, locally, with alsamixer, aplay etc (that part isn't ltsp related)
16:18
If it doesn't, it might be an incompatible kernel problem
16:18
If it does locally but not remotely, _then_ it's an ltsp issue
16:19
(i.e. wrong pulseaudio settings etc)
16:19
!screen_02
16:19
<ltsp>
alkisg: screen_02: To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using_a_shell_SCREEN
16:19
<alkisg>
!localxterm
16:19
<ltsp>
alkisg: localxterm: Any applications that you launch on a thin client actually run on the server. However, if in a client you run 'ltsp-localapps xterm', a local xterm will open, and any commands that you enter there will be executed locally on the client.
16:19
<alkisg>
...either will do
16:23
<kleewyck>
alksig: I know with 12.04 there is no /dev/mixer while with 11.10 there is on the Thin client.
16:23
alksig: so I suspect the right driver isn't in the kernel. :(
16:24
<alkisg>
kleewyck: so, try asking in #ubuntu-kernel instead
16:25
<kleewyck>
alksig: thanks..
16:25
<alkisg>
An lspci -nn -k from the older kernel would probably help
16:29
<mnevans_>
E: Release signed by unknown key (key id AED4B06F473041FA) > error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
16:30
How do I get past this to build a client? Debian wheezy alpha 1 release candidate.
16:30
Thanks in advance/
16:35
<alkisg>
mnevans_: are you running ltsp-build-client from wheezy? Try --apt-keys as well.
16:36
(ltsp-build-client --extra-help)
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16:44
<mnevans_>
@alkisg, thanks, yes, trying to ltsp-build-client from wheezy. I tried ltsp-build-client --apt-keys, but this doesn't seem to be an argument - I just get the help.
16:45
<alkisg>
mnevans_: you also need to specify the key path
16:46
<mnevans_>
@alkisg, thanks (duh!), I just tried: ltsp-build-client --apt-keys /root/.gnupg/pubring.gpg --accept-unsigned-packages
16:47
<alkisg>
mnevans_: the packages keys is in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg but you can't pass the whole database
16:47
Start with `apt-key list` to locate the key you need
16:47
Then export it to a file, and pass that file to --apt-keys
16:47
<mnevans_>
and it's now downloading packages. Now I will see if I get by the realtek r8169 network card libraries (should, I think: I installed them using dpkg -i on the relevant .deb from debian.)
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17:48
<mnevans_>
@alkisg: thanks, I wrote the output of apt-key list to a file in /root/. Then read the first of those keys (squeeze) into the call to ltsp-build-client. Now building the client...
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17:52
<mnevans_>
@alkisg, it looks like ltsp-build-client was successful except for the last bit: the error is: gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found. error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
17:53
<alkisg>
mnevans_: did you export the key with apt-key export?
17:53
<mnevans_>
Nope! Just wrote the output of apt-get list to a text file and edited using emacs. I'll try that/
17:54
<alkisg>
mnevans_: please run: `man apt-key` :)
17:54
<mnevans_>
Already ahead of you there... :)
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17:55
<alkisg>
mnevans_: you need to export the missing key from your installation, and pass that to ltsp-build-client
17:55
apt-key list shows you the keys. You already have the needed one from the previous ltsp-build-client error.
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17:55
<alkisg>
You then run apt-key export <key-id> > somefile
17:55
And then you pass that somefile to ltsp-build-client --apt-key
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17:59
<mnevans_>
alkisg, I used the key id given in the error message, and did apt-key export [keyid] > output.gpg, then pointed to that file:
18:00
ltsp-build-client --apt-keys /etc/apt/ltsp_build_client_key.gpg --accept-unsigned-packages
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18:00
<mnevans_>
Still I get the error: invalid release signature. What am I doing wrong?
18:01
<bieb>
ubuntu 12.04 LTSP.. trying to install Firefox as local app... did chroot /opt/ltsp/i386.. apt-get update.. apt-get install firefox.. Unable to locate Firefox... what is the package name for Firefox? It used to be just "firefox"
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18:05
<alkisg>
mnevans_: hmm maybe the apt-key is for later on, while your problem is in the initial debootstrap steps, and you'd need some debootstrap option to solve it. Wait for vagrantc, he's the debian/ltsp maintainer.
18:06
<mnevans_>
Weird: I just tried the same command again, and this time, I got past the initial key check. It's compiling now.
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18:11
<||cw>
bieb: 'apt-cache search firefox' ? maybe you don't have enough sources enabled?
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18:13
<alkisg>
bieb: It's "firefox" and it's in main. Did you use a capital initial letter? If so, use a lowercase one.
18:14
<bieb>
let me check both of those
18:14
<mnevans_>
Aargh! This time, ltsp-build-clients didn't have the gpg error, but did have the missing firmware error. Thought I had fixed that
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18:15
<mnevans_>
by downloading and installing the libraries from debian.org (firmware.tar.gz). Hmmmm.
18:16
<alkisg>
Why don't you install any additional packages later on?
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18:16
<mnevans_>
Because ltsp-build-client exits abnormally when I don't...?
18:18
<alkisg>
Ah the firmware is needed for proper installation? OK...
18:18
<mnevans_>
Well, I reinstalled the firmware, now to reboot and try again with ltsp-build-client...
18:20
<bieb>
||cw: when I run apt-cache it tells me it can't resolve the server name. Is there something I need to load? I just chrooted to /opt/ltsp/i386
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18:22
<alkisg>
bieb: didn't you say that `apt-get update` worked ok? Check your /etc/resolv.conf in the chroot
18:26
<bieb>
looks like it isnt resolving during the apt-get update
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18:42
<muppis>
Does nbd need to be restarted when updating a image in 12.04 ?
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19:12
<||cw>
muppis: not by default, it's not run as a daemon
19:13
a new connection will pick up the new file. old connections will be read-locked onto the inode for the old file and keep working until they are reset
19:14
which is why you want to make sure you have 2-3 times the size of your image as free space on that partition (found out the hard way)
19:14
"wait, why's my 16GB partition filled? there's only a 3GB file on it!"
19:15
<muppis>
:D
19:16
Ok. Let's try, I'm still suspicious.. ;)
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19:19
<||cw>
easy test: with no thin clients running, is there a nbd process?
19:20
I don't recall the exact process name
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19:45
<muppis>
This is odd.. I lost all session managers.
19:46
<bieb>
what .conf file do I set it so the students dont get the unity desktop.. I have installed gnome-session-fallback
19:46
<muppis>
!gnome-session
19:46
<ltsp>
muppis: Error: "gnome-session" is not a valid command.
19:46
<muppis>
Hmm..
19:47
<bieb>
I thought it was lts.conf in the past..
19:47
<muppis>
It is in there, but I don't remember exact syntax for it.
19:49
<bieb>
ok.. the lts.conf in /opt/ltsp/etc says to create lts.conf in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 so it is blank
19:49
<muppis>
/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/<arch> is the right place.
19:49
<bieb>
ok
19:51
any idea where I can find the syntax for the desktop?
19:53
<muppis>
!help
19:53
<ltsp>
muppis: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
19:54
<vagrantc>
!topics
19:54
<ltsp>
vagrantc: topics: To get a list of topics, type ltspbot: factoids search --values
19:54
<vagrantc>
ltsp: factoids search --values
19:54
<bieb>
!lts.conf
19:54
<ltsp>
bieb: lts.conf: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
19:54
<vagrantc>
apparently that doesn't work with the newish bot
19:54
<bieb>
damn bots
19:55
<vagrantc>
!
19:55
<muppis>
!gnome-session-fallback
19:55
<ltsp>
muppis: Error: "gnome-session-fallback" is not a valid command.
19:55
<muppis>
!!
19:55
<ltsp>
muppis: !: Are you frustrated?
19:56
<Hyperbyte>
vagrantc, it does work actually
19:56
<vagrantc>
Hyperbyte: i didn't see it produce a list of topics/values/whatever ... ?
19:57
<Hyperbyte>
!factoids search values
19:57
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: No keys matched that query.
19:57
<Hyperbyte>
!factoids search fallback
19:57
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: gnome-fallback: To select gnome-fallback as your default session, put this line in your lts.conf: LDM_SESSION="gnome-session --session=gnome-fallback"
19:57
<Hyperbyte>
!gnome-fallback
19:57
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: gnome-fallback: To select gnome-fallback as your default session, put this line in your lts.conf: LDM_SESSION="gnome-session --session=gnome-fallback"
19:58
<muppis>
There you go.
19:58
<bieb>
cool
19:58
<vagrantc>
!factoids search
19:58
<ltsp>
vagrantc: (factoids search [<channel>] [--values] [--{regexp} <value>] [<glob> ...]) -- Searches the keyspace for keys matching <glob>. If --regexp is given, it associated value is taken as a regexp and matched against the keys. If --values is given, search the value space instead of the keyspace.
19:58
<vagrantc>
!factoids search *
19:58
<ltsp>
vagrantc: More than 100 keys matched that query; please narrow your query.
19:58
<vagrantc>
!factoids search --values *
19:58
<ltsp>
vagrantc: More than 100 keys matched that query; please narrow your query.
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19:59
<vagrantc>
i guess we just have too many topics to list them all
19:59
!factoids search --regexp *
19:59
<ltsp>
vagrantc: Error: '*' is not a valid regular expression.
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20:04
<Hyperbyte>
!factoids search --regexp .*
20:04
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: Error: '.*' is not a valid regular expression.
20:04
<bieb>
is there anything else that I need to add to lts.conf? other than that one LDM line?
20:05
<Hyperbyte>
bieb, have a look at LDM_DIRECTX documentation and X_COLOR_DEPTH. These can be nice improvements.
20:05
<vagrantc>
actually, setting LDM_SESSION doesn't set the default session, it forces the only session
20:05
if i recall correctly
20:06
<bieb>
vagrantc: good or bad forcing the only session?
20:06
<Hyperbyte>
bieb, unless you want your users to do anything else than Gnome fallback, good.
20:07
<bieb>
yeah.. that's all they need
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20:09
<bieb>
ok.. what is the easiest way to setup shortcuts on the desktop for the students?
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20:11
<Hyperbyte>
bieb, I don't think you can. Putting it in the menu is really easy though.
20:11
See /usr/share/applications/
20:14
<bieb>
Hyperbyte: ok.. I see them as something.desktop.. or gnome-system-log.desktop
20:14
but that just puts them in the menu correct?
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20:25
<Hyperbyte>
bieb, correct. Just open those files with a text editor. Or create launchers manually on your desktop and copy them there.
20:25
<bieb>
gotcha
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20:35
<Mip>
Hey Gang - I'm about to install a ltsp using 12.04. The box is pretty powerful. Any caveats about installing on this latest version of Ubuntu?
20:36
<Hyperbyte>
Mip, stop.
20:36
Is this for a production environment?
20:36
<Mip>
yes, but it's needed for a while - I have some time tweak it.
20:36
<Hyperbyte>
How good are you at tweaking it?
20:37
<Mip>
Depends on what's involved. I've been running ltsp for a few years now, first with 8.04, and the past 2 with 10.04. What are the issues? Any good documentation yet?
20:37
<Hyperbyte>
I've tried 12.04.
20:37
Actually, I decided to take it into production without doing -extensive- tests.
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20:38
<Hyperbyte>
(yes, I know, very dumb)
20:38
I've introduced it last friday
20:38
<Mip>
sounds like it wasn't stellar. What issues have you had?
20:38
<Hyperbyte>
And me and my colleagues haven't done anything but hack and mess around with Ubuntu 12.04 since then.
20:38
In no particular order:
20:39
- the xorg evdev module crashed with USB headsets with input buttons
20:39
- screen setup is a big mess, left/right screens are constantly swapped around... configuring it in lts.conf doesn't work, I've made a script that sets it good after Gnome starts.
20:40
<Mip>
interesting...
20:40
<Hyperbyte>
- printing is hell, because cups has trouble accepting so many connections from localhost. I've increased the max to 200 connections now, but it's still running out somehow
20:40
<Mip>
had you used 10.04 before trying 12.04?
20:40
<Hyperbyte>
- with gnome3 only fallback functions, due to lack of software rendering in the regular gnome3... which is okay actually, but the fallback does have some minor issues
20:41* vagrantc is curious about CUPS in ltsp environments
20:41
<vagrantc>
although i've just had issues with cups in any way shape or form
20:41
<Hyperbyte>
- gnome3 has a new config system, dconf, which is great - but somehow some programs or whatevers keep writing .gconf config files, which completely mess up the interface - keyboard shortcuts don't work, screens configured wrong, windows not rendering properly - etc
20:42
I've had to create an LDM startup script which wipes .gconf during login
20:42
ehmmm....
20:42
!cups
20:42
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: cups: With thin clients running on a Ubuntu 12.04 server, you may run into CUPS limiting the amount of simultaneous connections from one host. Since all connections originate from the same host (the server), you'll have to raise MaxClients and MaxClientsPerHost. See: http://www.cups.org/documentation.php/ref-cupsd-conf.html
20:43
<Hyperbyte>
What else... ah yes, Samba (which I use for interfacing with our RDP server for some Windows apps) now has strict group policy checking. Which is okay, but if you use LDAP it's a nightmare - it's working now, but I haven't yet figured out why.
20:43
<bieb>
Hyperbyte: what would you have gone with instead of 12.04?
20:44
<Hyperbyte>
Oh, our softphone (SFLphone) had some issues running as a localapp... strangely enough, as a server app it runs much more smoothly.
20:45
bieb, well, now that it's working I'm quite happy with 12.04...
20:45
<bieb>
ahhh
20:45
<Hyperbyte>
Mainly because the dconf system is very nice. Forcing mandatory settings for users is now really easy.
20:45
But it took blood, sweat and tears to get there.
20:45
Before this I used 11.04 by the way, Mip.
20:46
<Mip>
I see. interesting notes - your system is far more "customized" than ours. We don't print much (yay!), and don't use ldap for our accounts. We mainly just use local accounts, and have the students using mainly web apps. I'd love to see your ldm start up script though, as the students often tweak the UI for their login, and it can be a pain for less knowledgeable students to get around in after that.
20:46
<Hyperbyte>
Mip, ...
20:46
!guest
20:46
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: Error: "guest" is not a valid command.
20:46
<Hyperbyte>
mm
20:46
!factoids search guest
20:46
<ltsp>
Hyperbyte: No keys matched that query.
20:46
<Hyperbyte>
Oh come on.
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20:47
<Hyperbyte>
Oh bah.
20:48
<Mip>
;-)
20:48
<Hyperbyte>
You can put a script in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/rc.d/
20:48
Call it S00-wipe-homedir or something
20:49
From there you can do all sorts of things, before login.
20:49
For example for users named 'guest<number>' you can clean the entire homedir back to defaults:
20:49
case "$LDM_USERNAME" in
20:49
guest*)
20:49
ssh -S "$LDM_SOCKET" "$LDM_SERVER" 'cd; rm -rf .* *; rsync -a /etc/skel/ .'
20:49
;;
20:49
esac
20:50
<Mip>
This looks cool - I've scripted some things for stand alone linux clients (mainly just whacking .gconf settings), and having them repopulated with the skel settings, but wasn't sure of the best way to implement it on the ltsp environment.
20:53
<bieb>
Hyperbyte: can you help me with one?? when a student plugs in flash drive it gets mounted to /media/%username$/.. I would like to create a "folder" in their home dir that maps /home/local/domain/%user%/USB to /media/username
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20:58
<vagrantc>
bieb: you need to write a script and put into the server's /etc/ltspfs/mounter.d/ dir.
20:59
bieb: look at /usr/share/doc/ltspfs/examples/ for other scripts that do similar things
20:59
<bieb>
vagrantc: thanks
21:01
<mnevans>
@ vagrantc, I am testing a debian wheezy ltsp installation and can't seem to get my second NIC to work for the LTSP LAN.
21:02
It's a realtek r8169 based card. I've installed the firmware from debian. But it doesn't seem to get recognized.
21:02
<vagrantc>
mnevans: you installed the firmware in the chroot?
21:02
mnevans: i.e. ltsp-chroot apt-get install some-firmware-package ?
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21:03
<vagrantc>
mnevans: and have you run ltsp-update-kernels since?
21:03
mnevans: or are you talking about a NIC on the server?
21:03
<mnevans>
No - I didn't. I installed the firmware in the server, and then I built the image. (This was prompted by some warnings and failed ltsp-build-image.
21:04
@vagrantc, thanks, I have run ltsp-update-image since, not ltsp-update-kernels.
21:04
<vagrantc>
is it a server or thin client NIC we're even talking about?
21:05
<mnevans>
@vagrantc, I'm sorry, I don't think I'm making myself clear. I'm talking about a second NIC in the LTSP server.
21:05
<vagrantc>
ltsp-update-image should run ltsp-update-kernels as well, if i'm not mistaken.
21:05
<mnevans>
Well, I just ran one, then the other...
21:05
<vagrantc>
mnevans: so there's nothing LTSP about this at all, really?
21:07
you'll need to install the firmware in the server and reboot your server for that to do anything.
21:07
<mnevans>
Maybe. In which case I will shamefully fold my tent and apologize for wasting your time. Maybe this is a debian/wheezy problem.
21:08
<vagrantc>
no worries :)
21:09
mnevans: hope that helps... ?
21:09
<mnevans>
I did install the firmware in the server and reboot. Porblem now seems to be with starting isc-dhcp-server.
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21:22
<Mip>
Thanks Hperbyte - I've gotta run for now, but I appreciate your tips and warnings. I'm glad that I have some time to get this dialed in. Have a nice weekend all - M
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21:54* alkisg waves to vagrantc
21:54
<alkisg>
I committed ltsp-config, now I want to write a man page for it and do a lot of testing for all the new stuff...
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22:01
<Hyperbyte>
hughessd, in response to your PM question, how to do mandatory settings in 12.04
22:01
gconftool-2 (gconf in general) is replaced by dconf in Gnome3
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22:02
<Hyperbyte>
You can still use gconf for some things, some applications still use it, but most stuff is done via dconf.
22:02
<hughessd>
ah ok
22:02
<Hyperbyte>
As logged in user, type 'dconf dump /' to see all custom dconf settings that have been made
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22:03
<Hyperbyte>
If you want to make these mandatory, create /etc/dconf/db/blah.d/ and put the config there as plain text
22:03
Then type 'dconf update' and dconf will make a database /etc/dconf/db/blah
22:03
You can also lock the settings with a subdir 'locks'
22:04
And finally enable the profile by adding it to /etc/dconf/profile/user
22:04
'blah' can be anything, by the way.
22:04
Details here: https://live.gnome.org/dconf/SystemAdministrators
22:04
<hughessd>
oh wow, thats nice
22:05
thank you, hyperbyte
22:06
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yes, i saw! was in the process of testing a new install.
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22:06
<hughessd>
by subdir locks, do you just mean changing the permissions to 755 or somehting?
22:06
<alkisg>
vagrantc: what do you think about the man pages getting generated by docbook sources?
22:07
<vagrantc>
alkisg: if it's not too hard to edit, i'm fine with it.
22:07
<Hyperbyte>
hughessd, no. Look at the link I sent you, section 'Lockdown"
22:07
<hughessd>
ok i will do that.
22:07
<vagrantc>
alkisg: not sure about your xxe or whatever stuff ... i'd want to be able to edit it with a plain text editor over the long haul
22:08
<alkisg>
vagrantc: there are many docbook editors and many people (like sbalneav) use plain text editors to edit it
22:08
It should even be easier than manpage editing
22:08
I want to use xxe though, I think a WYSIWYG editor saves much time
22:09
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i do like the idea of them being translateable
22:09
<alkisg>
I think I'll make a small start with lts.conf.xml which is already in docbook
22:10
I.e. I'll save it with xxe once (big diff there due to line wrapping), and keep editing it with xxe, if it doesn't cause problems to anyone then I'll try to do the same with the other manpages too
22:10
I read good things about po4a, many people appreciate it
22:10
But I don't have all the dots connected yet, I don't know how it will fit with debian/rules or a makefile etc
22:11
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i suppose you'll make me add in nfs support to ltsp-config :)
22:11
<alkisg>
Yup ;)
22:11
<vagrantc>
i've used po4a on a few things
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22:11
<alkisg>
And the lts.conf now only goes in the tftp dir, you might want to put some option for it to go to $chroot/etc
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22:11
<vagrantc>
seems to work ... sometimes it's choice about what strings are translateable is unweidly
22:11
<alkisg>
I hope noone minds if I start commiting lts-el.conf, dnsmasq-el.conf etc translated examples...
22:12
(the install_example function is supposed to have support for localized examples)
22:14
Btw one project that uses docbook files for its man pages is the "shadow" package
22:14
<vagrantc>
hah. ltsp-config with no parameters spits out Try `getopt --help' for more information.
22:14
alkisg: i think it's totally reasonable to generate the manpages at build time
22:14
<alkisg>
I didn't do any testing :( I wanted to start testing after a proper debuild...
22:15
<vagrantc>
alkisg: then you could have ltsp-build-client options specified with the distro's default plugins all listed
22:15
i've thought about doing it, but just never got around to it.
22:16
then you could get really fancy and iterate through the supported languages...
22:16
<alkisg>
I think we'll both be around for a long time, we'll get to doing all of these :)
22:16
ltsp-chroot --help => to use the ltsp gettext domain and output localized usage, etc
22:17
<vagrantc>
or maybe running it through po4a to generate the po files, and most of the strings should already be present in the ltsp.pot
22:18
<alkisg>
And I hope we'll be able to use launchpad or some other web-based tool for translations some day, they're very handy
22:18
<vagrantc>
hm. "ltsp-config nbd-server" just spits out help text.
22:18
<alkisg>
Hm, let me see...
22:18
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yes, i've seen them working on epoptes (by the way, should i upload another version of epoptes soon with the updated translations)
22:19
alkisg: i don't like that it doesn't properly credit the translators in the po files...
22:19
<alkisg>
vagrantc: since we don't be making any source changes in epoptes, leave it for just before feature freeze
22:19
Yeah... but it _is_ easy to work with :(
22:19
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i.e. it marks last-translator, buit not all the translators
22:20
<alkisg>
The translators appear in the web site
22:20
Maybe we could somehow make a script to pull them
22:20
<vagrantc>
alkisg: for debian, feature freeze is "it should already have everything ready weeks ago"
22:20
<alkisg>
Ah. Then by all means go ahead and tag a new upstream version
22:20
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it doesn't even mention them in the commit messages.
22:21
<alkisg>
vagrantc: in the epoptes about dialog, it mentions each translator based on the current LANG the user uses
22:21
<vagrantc>
alkisg: although new translations are an acceptible post-freeze change..
22:21
<alkisg>
So e.g. for greek it shows me and Phantomas
22:21
Not just the last translator
22:21
<vagrantc>
sure
22:22
<alkisg>
"translated by: Launchpad Contributions:
22:22
Alkis Georgopoulos https://launchpad.net/~alkisg
22:22
Fotis Tsamis https://launchpad.net/~phantomas"
22:22
<vagrantc>
you'd think it could at least use bzr's --author feature
22:22
<alkisg>
And for italian, it shows markit, etc etc
22:22
So the code is there somewhere
22:23
<vagrantc>
sure.
22:23
but it's just got the standard gettext boilerplate in the actual .po files
22:23
alkisg: is it feasible to disable translation for particular languages?
22:24
<alkisg>
To go to launchpad and specify that e.g. I don't want greek translations? I don't know, why would you want that?
22:24
<vagrantc>
alkisg: we've had translators for ltsp involved for many years, and i don't want to impose a workflow on them... but i don't actually have the time to do the translation updates myself
22:25
<alkisg>
Loco teams also are active in launchpad so I guess we'd have many more ltsp translators if we were using it
22:25
And for people that want to send .po, it supports uploading
22:25
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i don't want to abandon the existing translators who've contributed for years with peer review and all that goodness.
22:26
alkisg: that said, i can't really maintain it the way we have, so we should probably just switch to launchpad's translation system.
22:26
<alkisg>
We can start with lts.conf and the manpages, and if it works, we may go on with the rest at a later date
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22:27
<vagrantc>
and it's about time to call for translations.
22:27
i guess we could have launchpad translations on a separate branch from trunk
22:28
and manually merge it in periodically
22:28
<alkisg>
Sounds good
22:29
Maybe use ltsp-docs for that?
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22:29
<alkisg>
Put all the docbooks there, and merge the .po with ltsp-trunk manually
22:30
<vagrantc>
that sounds like a lot of work ...
22:31
<alkisg>
I don't think so, it would only take a small script for bzr merging...
22:31
<vagrantc>
seems messy to merge po files across bzr branches ... you really have no idea where the history comes from then
22:32
manpages for specific tools should be maintained alongside the source for those tools.
22:32
otherwise you easily can get out of sync
22:33
<alkisg>
Ah, about disabling the translations, you meant for the people that don't use launchpad but are used to sending .po files...
22:33
<vagrantc>
alkisg: yes.
22:33
<alkisg>
...we could "blacklist" those from the sync script, other than that I didn't mean "po merge", but "po copy"
22:33
So the history would be only in 1 branch
22:34
<vagrantc>
i think ltsp-docs is really for documenting LTSP as a whole, and individual pieces should be documented with the appropriate pieces ... there will be some overlap (i.e. lts.conf documents ltsp/ltspfs/ldm configuration) ... but it's part of the whole LTSP system.
22:34
<stgraber>
just seeing the last few minutes of backlog, I supposed we could also decide to move all translations to the bzr branch (except for the debconf templates) and let Launchpad import the .po we dump in the branch and auto-commit changes from LP
22:35
<alkisg>
...like epoptes does now...
22:35
<vagrantc>
stgraber: yeah, that's more what i'm thinking.
22:35
<stgraber>
that's what I have for most of my projects and it works pretty well when you have translators using LP and some using other tools. LP does a reasonable job of merging them and dumping up to date .po in your branch every day
22:35
<vagrantc>
as long as we can manually still commit updated .po files to bzr without jumping through any hoops.
22:35
<stgraber>
you can also get LP to manually import a .po or a tarball of .po from the web interface if somehing goes wrong with the auto importer
22:36
<alkisg>
...but then the .po history gets a bit messed up, doesn't it?
22:37
<stgraber>
if LP commits to the branch, we'll have the history there
22:37
<vagrantc>
as long as it isn't rewriting the bzr branch history ... it shouldn't be too messed up.
22:37
<alkisg>
Person "a" translated epoptes in launchpad, person "b" did some changes by mistake and I was asked to undo them, I uploaded the previous version by person "a", but in the "translation contributors" person "b" still shows up...
22:38
<stgraber>
yeah, I think LP shows everyone who contributed to the translations at some point, removing all of someone's strings won't change that on LP's point of view
22:39
<alkisg>
Anyway I'm fine with all that, I'd much appreciate ltsp being translatable in launchpad
22:40
stgraber: I saw your earlier message, ty, I'll start testing with my local debian/ dir, whenever you have a new packaging ready please ping me to test with that too
22:40
My first 12.04 + "new" ltsp installations will be in about June 15th
22:41
I basically want greek schools to use 12.04 with ltsp from 12.10
22:42
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i think something is messed up with the getopt call in ltsp-config
22:42
<alkisg>
vagrantc: I'll fix it in the weekend
22:42
Sunday I'll start testing + committing fixes
22:43
Aaaah ouch I see it now
22:43
I didn't put the getopt parameters
22:43
<vagrantc>
something quick so i can do some testing? :)
22:43
<alkisg>
if ! args=$(getopt -n "$0" -l no-proxy-dhcp -- "$@")
22:43
==>
22:43
Needs -h, -l, -o and the long options too
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22:46
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i think it's failing on the second "case "$1 in" ... as it's already shifted all the arguments away.
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22:47
<alkisg>
vagrantc: hmm, the non-option parameters are supposed to stay after shifting the options
22:47
--) shift ; break ;;
22:47
==> i.e. after that
22:48
<vagrantc>
alkisg: so ... getopt puts all the non-option stuff at the end ... and then it breaks?
22:48
<alkisg>
Yup
22:48
-option1 -option2 -- non-option-params
22:49
But I haven't tested it at all because I didn't have time to copy the new functions* to /usr/share/ltsp etc, I thought I'd do that after the first debuild
22:51
vagrantc: I think it's because I didn't put the getopt -o parameter
22:51
$ getopt -n ltsp-config -o n -l no-proxy-dhcp -- --no-proxy-dhcp nbd-server
22:51
--no-proxy-dhcp -- 'nbd-server'
22:51
Without the -o, it breaks
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22:54
<alkisg>
vagrantc: try this: if ! args=$(getopt -n "$0" -o "hlo" -l help,language,overwrite,no-proxy-dhcp -- "$@")
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22:58
<vagrantc>
alkisg: that got us a bit further
22:58
the config_function is getting set with a trailing _
22:58
so config_nbd_server_
22:58
instead of config_nbd_server
22:59* vagrantc doesn't quite understand what "tr -c" does, even after reading the manpage
22:59
<alkisg>
vagrantc: the problem is in the trailing newline
22:59
So put "[a-z\n]" there
23:00
tr -c means "invert the set", so "substitute any letter that don't belong in a-z\n"
23:01
<vagrantc>
that worked, although config_nbd_server didn't exist :)
23:01
<alkisg>
Hehe, a function rename is in order :)
23:01
config_nbd => config_nbd_server
23:01
<vagrantc>
yup
23:02
alkisg: you want to commit those changes, or should i?
23:02
<alkisg>
Please do
23:02* alkisg => pumpkin in 2'
23:02
<vagrantc>
still didn't get it working yet... but closer
23:03
<alkisg>
Where does it error now?
23:03
<vagrantc>
silently exit 1 ...
23:03
<alkisg>
Hmmm sh -x...
23:04
Errr
23:04
OK the config_nbd_server is wrong
23:04
It shouldn't have a parameter, it should process all image
23:04
s
23:05
I was supposed to put a for loop there but after implementing the detect_chroots functions I forgot to use it
23:05
for image in $(detect_chroots nbd)...
23:05
I'll fix it on sunday
23:08
<vagrantc>
i'll hopefully have some time on monday to test
23:08
or maybe i'll hack something together now :)
23:08
<alkisg>
:)
23:08
If you want me to put support for something else, send me a mail
23:08
<vagrantc>
you can always further fix it later :)
23:08
<alkisg>
Sure
23:09
vagrantc: I didn't put a --swap or --no-swap parameter, as if no chroots are found, it should only setup swap
23:10
So if you call ltsp-config nbd-server on debian, it should just enable nbd swap by default
23:10
I.e. the for image in $(detect_chroots nbd); do; will do nothing
23:11
...'night all :)
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