IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 24 December 2010   (all times are UTC)

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01:49
<gnunux>
hi
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03:59
<alkisg>
What's the purpose of the 000-init-whitelist plugin? It deletes some rc.d links and so some services don't start on thin/fat clients: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/4tyEJhSw
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04:09
<alkisg>
That's probably the reason why some people here complain about cups, ondemand, sendsigs, rc.local, binfmt-support, openbsd-inetd, winbind etc not working with localapps and fat clients...
04:09
If that list is indeed needed, it should be revisited
04:11
I think Debian doesn't use that list at all, it's commented out: #RCS_WHITELIST=$ ...
04:12
So maybe Ubuntu should sync with Debian on this, i.e. in Ubuntu/000-basic-configuration
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04:25
<alkisg>
I reported it at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/694066
04:36
I'll try commenting them out, building a fat chroot, and if it works OK I'll commit it...
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04:38
<jimjimovich>
good morning everyone
04:39
what's the best way to put run a script each time a user logs into ltsp?
04:39
the script needs to be run as that user
04:40
<alkisg>
Put it in the server /etc/xdg/autostart
04:41
(as a .desktop file, see examples there)
04:41
<jimjimovich>
thanks, that's exactly what i was looking for!
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05:32
<baiki>
@alkisg hi. i updated this bugreport with the graca output from the thin client
05:32
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: VIA Technologies, Inc. CN700/P4M800 Pro/P4M800 CE/VN800 [S3 UniChrome Pro] [1106:3344] (rev 01)
05:33
<alkisg>
baiki: nice, it seems that *only* unichrome cards are affected
05:34
<baiki>
one more question: since I can't see any different on the thin clients screen resolution i assume i am modifying the wrong lts.conf. Is this the right path: /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
05:36
i try to set this value "X_MODE_0 = 1024x768" in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf and afterwards an image update but.... nope :-(
05:36
<alkisg>
Use XRANDR_MODE_0=1024x768
05:36
Don't forget to put [Default] on top of it
05:37
<baiki>
ok, will try right now. thanks a lot.
05:39
<alkisg>
baiki: you don't need to update the image when you modify lts.conf
05:40
<baiki>
ok
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05:53
<baiki>
@alkisg nope. did not work out for me. i used this: http://pastebin.com/p8NRL3Kr
06:00
!compiz
06:00
<ltspbot>
baiki: "compiz" :: the default window manager in gnome is gnome-wm, which automatically chooses compiz if it thinks that the card supports it. Compiz is causing login problems to some clients (LP #673072). To disable it, see !disable_compiz. To restore it, see !restore_compiz
06:00
<baiki>
!XRANDR_MODE_0
06:01
<ltspbot>
baiki: Error: "XRANDR_MODE_0" is not a valid command.
06:01
<alkisg>
!localxterm
06:01
<ltspbot>
alkisg: "localxterm" :: while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
06:01
<baiki>
!disable_compiz
06:01
<ltspbot>
baiki: "disable_compiz" :: To disable compiz, try: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
06:01
<alkisg>
baiki: open a localxterm (on the client) and run: getltscfg -a
06:01
<baiki>
ok
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06:09
<baiki>
@alkisg here is the output of getltscfg -a: XRANDR_MODE_0="1024x768" (newline) export XRANDR_MODE_0
06:10
<alkisg>
baiki: ok, now run this: xrandr
06:10
and pastebin the output
06:10
<baiki>
ok
06:10
ok
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06:20
<alkisg>
!xauthority
06:20
<ltspbot>
alkisg: "xauthority" :: to access the client X session from a local root shell, try: eval $(tr '\0' '\n' < /proc/$(pidof -s ldm gdm-simple-greeter gnome-session | cut -d' ' -f1)/environ | egrep '^DISPLAY=|^XAUTHORITY=') && export DISPLAY XAUTHORITY
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06:21
<baiki>
@alkisg can't open pastebin
06:22
Screen 0: minimum 640 x 480, current 800 x 600, maximum 800 x 600 default connected 800x600+0+0 0mm x 0mm 800x600 60.0* 56.0 640x480 60.0
06:22
<alkisg>
baiki: ok the problem is that your monitor timings aren't correctly detected
06:22
Is that on the openchrome thin client?
06:22
<baiki>
possible. it's a CRT (and old) 17"
06:23
<alkisg>
What's the graphics card driver? openchrome?
06:23
<baiki>
yes, on the hpt3350. if i do this on the TC itself i get: can't open display if i enter xrandr
06:23
<alkisg>
Wait wait what?
06:23
if i do this on the TC itself i get: can't open display if i enter xrandr ==> ?
06:24
Just open a gnome-terminal on the thin client (=the TC) and run xrandr...
06:24
That shouldn't say "can't open display"...
06:24
<baiki>
yes, the 800x600 output is from the gnome-terminal
06:25
<alkisg>
ok
06:25
Try putting those in lts.conf:
06:25
X_HORZSYNC=30-88
06:25
X_VERTREFRESH=30-88
06:26
(also keep the XRANDR_MODE_0)
06:26
and reboot the client
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06:44
<baiki>
@alkisg yes man!! the h/v sync and refresh did the job. thanks a lot. got i question for today left: LDM_ALLOW_USER does not work. can login with all users
06:45
<alkisg>
Try LDM_USER_ALLOW
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07:10
<jimjimovich>
okay, I now have a startup script running when a user logs in, how can I run a script when they log out?
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07:44
<jimjimovich>
alkisg: thanks for your tip on running a script at login. how would i run one at logout?
07:46
<alkisg>
!xexit
07:46
<ltspbot>
alkisg: Error: "xexit" is not a valid command.
07:47
<jimjimovich>
!exit
07:47
<ltspbot>
jimjimovich: Error: "exit" is not a valid command.
07:53
<jimjimovich>
i see there's an xexit thing in the ltsp bazaar code on launchpad
07:57
<alkisg>
There's no standard way to run scripts at logout, because e.g. xorg might crash so those scripts wouldn't be called
07:58
One ltsp dev, sbalneav, made the xexit package which tries to execute stuff at logout
07:58
Why do you want to run scripts at logout?
07:58
<jimjimovich>
i need to be able to clean up some apps that don't shut down correctly, etc
07:59
<alkisg>
For example? Can't you clean them on logon?
07:59
<jimjimovich>
I guess I could, they're just sitting around taking up memory while the user is not logged in
08:00
<alkisg>
Which ones? I'm asking because there's a difference if the app crashed or xorg crashed or even if the user unplugged the power cord of the client...
08:01
<jimjimovich>
yeah, i know. the one that's bothering me right now is my own app. i probably just don't know how to launch it correctly so that it shuts down when the user logs out. it's a ruby app
08:01
but I've had problems with Evolution not shutting down right too and the process hanging around after logotu
08:02
<alkisg>
evolution-data-server does that yeah
08:02
<jimjimovich>
also ubuntu-one
08:02
<alkisg>
Normally programs are launched inside the x-session, so they're closed when it finishes
08:02
If you made your program run within the x session, it would be automatically killed
08:03
<jimjimovich>
i'm launching a background ruby process when the user logs in, how could i make it run within their x session?
08:03
<alkisg>
So anyway yeah xexit will kill those apps for you
08:03
x apps, gtk apps etc belong to the session, and e.g. gtk and qt automatically declare themselves as session clients
08:03
I don't know about console apps...
08:04
<jimjimovich>
the ruby process runs as that user, so i don't quite understand why it keeps running when the user logs out (i'm not that much of a guru)
08:04
<alkisg>
Noone tells it to close
08:04
The session only keeps track of processes that declare that belong to it
08:05
OK anyway the xexit package will close those apps for you
08:05
<jimjimovich>
okay, thanks. i'll also look into making my app behave correctly so that i don't need xexit :)
08:06
<alkisg>
If you find a solution for console apps for this, please notify me :)
08:06
<jimjimovich>
will do!
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11:48
<alkisg>
vagrantc, what does commit #1757 mean? (comment out RC*_WHITELIST defaults, as they are not respected properly in squeeze.)
11:48
There are a lot of useful but disabled services in thin/fat clients so I'm thinking it might be better if the RC*_WHITELISTs were disabled in Ubuntu too...
11:50
Did you notice any problems after commenting them out?
12:05
bbl, will see the irclogs
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12:20
<vagrantc>
alkisg: ah, irc logs ... well ... debian's insserv (which manages /etc/rc?.d/ symlinks) ignores the whitelisting, and the implementation of whitelisting in ltsp was pretty ugly and hackish anyways, so i just commented it out.
12:21
alkisg: didn't notice any problems, but they weren't being respected at all... might be totally different with Ubuntu's upstart or whatever manages init.
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13:19
<alkisg>
The whitelisting works in Ubuntu, i.e. ltsp-build-client disables all non-whitelisted services. And that's the problem, because some services are needed...
13:19
If some services really need to be disabled (didn't see any so far), then blacklisting might be better than whitelisting, especially with localapps and fat clients
13:20
And if it could be done from an initramfs script or an initscript, it'd be even better, as now purging and re-installing a service re-enables it
13:20
But I didn't find any service that needs blacklisting so far...
13:32
<vagrantc>
the whitelisting was introduced in the frenzy to speed up boot times
13:32
but i always thought it was too heavy-handed
13:33
alkisg: but how the debian scripts work, i'm not sure there's a way to even blacklist something
13:33
<alkisg>
vagrantc: update-rc.d doesn't work?
13:33
<vagrantc>
short of removing or modifying the scripts in /etc/init.d/
13:33
alkisg: not really
13:34
might work until the next package update
13:34
<alkisg>
(removing the script from an initramfs script was what I thought some time ago before seeing the ltsp whitelists...)
13:34
<vagrantc>
but then insserv reorders all the rc?.d scripts
13:34
<alkisg>
*the scripts in /etc/init.d
13:34
Or even replacing them with symlinks to a dummy script
13:34
So that the rc.d/* symlinks are not broken...
13:35
<vagrantc>
to do that for read-only NFS would eat nearly half a meg of ram
13:35
<alkisg>
Why? Just for a dozen symlinks?
13:36
<vagrantc>
i guess could bind-mount the blacklisted ones with dummy scripts
13:36
that would be the most efficient approach
13:37
<alkisg>
But I didn't find yet any service that needs to be disabled, so I'm guessing much less than a dozen bind-mounted symlinks will be needed...
13:41
<vagrantc>
can't bind-mount symlinks
13:41
but you can bind-mount a dummy file
13:41
<alkisg>
Ah. OK, dummy files then
13:41
List of services that were disabled in my fat chroot:
13:41
apparmor binfmt-support bluetooth brltty cups dns-clean fancontrol kerneloops lm-sensors nbd-client networking ondemand openbsd-inetd pcmciautils pppd-dns pulseaudio rc.local rsync saned sendsigs speech-dispatcher umountfs umountnfs.sh umountroot unattended-upgrades urandom winbind wpa-ifupdown x11-common
13:42
Which of those need blacklisting? pulseaudio, unattented-upgrades...
13:42
<vagrantc>
i've heard network-manager and gdm do evil
13:43
<alkisg>
network-manager can be used to control vpns etc
13:43
If we write an "eth0 manual" in /etc/network/interfaces, then it doesn't touch that interface
13:44
gdm doesn't do evil if ldm writes the default-display-manager in debconf and in /etc
13:44
<vagrantc>
which will get overriden on upgrades
13:45
of gdm, at least
13:45
<alkisg>
Why?
13:45
It doesn't do that for me
13:45
<vagrantc>
ldm doesn't implement pax displayicus managerius
13:45
<alkisg>
Let me check the code I put, I think in the fat client plugin...
13:45
<vagrantc>
http://bugs.debian.org/267198
13:46
<alkisg>
echo '/usr/sbin/ldm' > "$ROOT/etc/X11/default-display-manager"
13:46
echo 'ldm shared/default-x-display-manager select ldm' | chroot "$ROOT" debconf-set-selections
13:46
Those should be part of the ldm code
13:47
When gdm was upgraded for me, ldm was kept as the default display manager
13:47
<vagrantc>
it's been years since i looked into it, so maybe it respects local changes now
13:48
<alkisg>
And that would also solve any other *dm problems, if kdm or some else dm is installed (assuming they all read that shared/default-x-display-manager debconf setting)
13:48
<vagrantc>
they're supposed to
13:48
and ldm should as well
13:49
<alkisg>
And reconfiguring gdm showed ldm and gdm in the debconf dialog, so afaik it worked ok...
13:50
So what I'm saying is, those services like network-manager or gdm that can "properly" be worked around, don't need to be disabled...
13:50
<vagrantc>
sure
13:50
<alkisg>
(btw in ubuntu those are upstart scripts so the current whitelisting doesn't remove them)
13:51
<vagrantc>
if pax displayicus managerius is any easier to implement than it used to be, we should probably do it in ldm's postinst
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21:36
<yeedl>
hey ya'll
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