IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 29 September 2008   (all times are UTC)

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02:41
<nubae1>
any bash scripters that can help me out? I'm trying to get the internal server ip only and have a convoluted way of doing it, but wonder if there is a better way, as my script assumes the ip is always on eth1
02:42
<ltsppbot>
"Nubae" pasted "catch ip" (7 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/9
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03:31
<DawnLight>
hello. i have an ibm netvista thin client here. it is an old thingy. the first problem with it is that it doesn't want to use pxe boot despite that i configure it's bios to do so. so it uses NFS. despite that i tell it not to do so. so i use nfs to give it the pxelinux.0 image and it fetches it and then it says that it is an unsupported file type... why?
03:34
<nubae1>
DawnLight: doesn't the pxe network card have its own configuration panel (usually shift+f10 or some such)
03:35
<DawnLight>
nubae1: i don't think so. this has a strange ibm configuration utility
03:36
<Q-FUNK>
howdy!
03:37
<DawnLight>
and it makes strange dhcp requests like 66 and 67 and two hundred or something
03:37
can you think of a reason?
03:38
i'll be back later
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03:49
<nubae>
hiu Q-FUNK
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04:04
<highvoltage>
howdy Q-FUNK
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07:23
<ace_suares>
how to make upstart recognize a new file/program that need to start at boot? Is rebooting the whole machine the only way ?
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07:39
<Q-FUNK>
ace_suares: it's suposed to be event-based, so there must be a way to launch it on the fly
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07:44
<ogra>
that question would probably better be asked in #upstart :)
07:45
though if the package/file/whatever uses a dbus service that will require a reboot anyway
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08:41
<Warp4>
ok a quick question...
08:41
we are running LTSP under Debian Etch here at work. I have a user that has an issue that everytime he clicks on the K menu it freezes and if he does it again it crashes.
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08:51
<sbalneav>
Morning all
08:51
<Warp4>
good morning
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08:56
<DawnLight>
so how does this localdev stuff works in the ubuntu hardy version?
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08:57
<sbalneav>
DawnLight: Are you asking IF it works, or HOW it works?
08:57
<DawnLight>
i have LOCALDEV=y and kde doesn't give me any notice
08:58
i have LOCALDEV=y and kde doesn't give me any notice
08:58
<sbalneav>
KDE won't pop anything up on the desktop
08:58
<DawnLight>
oh no
08:58
<sbalneav>
You'll need to look on /media/<user>
08:58
<DawnLight>
hmm
08:58
<sbalneav>
the mount will be there.
08:58
<DawnLight>
ahuh
08:58
<sbalneav>
Also, have you added the user to the "fuse" group?
08:58
<DawnLight>
yes
08:59
<sbalneav>
ok
08:59
<DawnLight>
so does the mounting happen in the server?
08:59
<nubae>
when installing packages for a plugin (under /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/) I have some unsigned packages... I know I can use --accept-unsigned-packages but I'd like not to have to do that...
08:59
<DawnLight>
ah, i see. there is a fuse.ltspfs mount in the server
09:00
<nubae>
doh, guess I can look at the accept-unsigned-packages and use that code :-/
09:01
<DawnLight>
i can't see my files on the usb
09:01
is it soppused to be mounted on the client?
09:01
because it isn't
09:02
<sbalneav>
DawnLight: It's mounted on the server.
09:02
It will only mount on the client when it's being used
09:02
after 2 seconds of inactivity, it umounts
09:02
on the client
09:04
<DawnLight>
but...
09:04
what does "used" mean?
09:05
<Warp4>
we are running LTSP under Debian Etch here at work. I have a user that has an issue that everytime he clicks on the K menu it freezes and if he does it again it crashes.
09:05
<DawnLight>
i go in /media/dawn/usbdisk-sda2 and do ls and nothing
09:05
<sbalneav>
DawnLight: Looking at it, copying to it, reading from it
09:05
<DawnLight>
2 seconds? not 2 minutes?
09:10
so anyway... it doesn't work...
09:10
<_UsUrPeR_>
warp4: this is a single client?
09:10
<Warp4>
yeah just one user
09:11
<_UsUrPeR_>
when you say "user" do you mean a single username, or a single client?
09:11
<Warp4>
a single username
09:11
no matter what workstation he logs on to, the same thing happens
09:12
<_UsUrPeR_>
ahh
09:12
hmm
09:12
that's a quandry for sure. Have you attempted to remove and re-add his account?
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09:13
<Warp4>
well id do that, but we use an LDAP backend for authentication
09:13
which also handles our dialup and email accounts
09:15
<_UsUrPeR_>
ugh. That's my best advise, man. Sorry.
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09:21
<sbalneav>
DawnLight: At a command prompt, can you type the command "id" as the user, and paste the results to our pastbot?
09:21
!pastebot
09:21
<ltspbot`>
sbalneav: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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09:35
<DawnLight>
sbalneav: thanks. it is working suddenly. i wonder if there's an inconsistancy
09:38
the lts-parameters.txt in the 5.0.40 version does not seem to be complete. is there an online version?
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10:06
<nubae>
hmmm, when creating a plugin, I use the following: APT_GET_OPTS="$APT_GET_OPTS --force-yes" to force unsigned packages... I put this in configure) but seems to be ignored
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10:26
<nubae>
say I want to add an extra repo to grab packages from during ltsp-build-client, where would I do that?
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10:30
<nubae>
I suppose --accept-unsigned-packages overrides whatever u define for $APT_GET_OPTS
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10:31
<nubae>
even if I hardcode --force-yes, ltsp-build-client still switches it off at install time
10:31
hi Gadi
10:31
<Gadi>
g'morning
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11:00
<nubae>
so can someone help me... I'm trying to add an extra repo during ltsp-build-client build time, but not sure where I can do that, there must be a better way than doing echo "repo" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
11:01
<vagrantc>
"ltsp-build-client --extra-help" should mention several commandline arguments...
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11:03
<nubae>
yeah but nothing about extra repos
11:05
<Warp4>
ok another question...
11:07
<vagrantc>
nubae: no --extra-mirror option?
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11:12
<nubae>
vagrantc: that might work, what I'm trying to do is get medibuntu (media repo with googleearth etc) to be included for a particular plugin
11:12
but requires signing too
11:12
<vagrantc>
nubae: well, use the other *mirror plugins as a base for a new plugin
11:13
<nubae>
might be easier just to include the code in the main plugin
11:13
<vagrantc>
nubae: and i added a plugin on debian which will use whatever apt keyring your server uses to the client by default
11:13
<nubae>
--copy-sources-list?
11:13
<vagrantc>
no
11:13
it's not a commandline option, just a plugin. don't think ogra has pulled it into ubuntu yet, if that's what you're using.
11:14
<ogra>
--copy-sources-list?
11:14
it comes from ubuntu
11:14
<nubae>
well the ltsp source has all the plugins, debians as well
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11:14
<nubae>
maybe u mean --apt-keys
11:15
<vagrantc>
just because it has the plugins, doesn't mean it uses them.
11:15
<ogra>
it doesnt
11:15
<nubae>
yeah but I can use the code :-)
11:15
look at and use
11:15
<ogra>
it uses the Ubuntu plugins indeed, not the debian ones
11:15
<vagrantc>
simple symlinking should do.
11:15
<ogra>
right
11:15
<vagrantc>
unless there's some incompatibility ...
11:15
<nubae>
ogra, is it too late to include a --fatclient plugin in intrepid?
11:15
I've got it finished now
11:16
<ogra>
nubae, its not to late but i wont have time
11:16* ogra doesnt even have the time to chat here
11:16
<nubae>
ok :-)
11:16
<ogra>
beta is on thursday
11:16
<nubae>
ok, I'll bother u after
11:16
<ogra>
i'll be lucky if i find some hours to even fix the worst ltsp things before that
11:17
and after only massively critical bugs get fixed
11:17
ltsp in intrepid will likely suck and i have to find someone to take care for it in jaunty
11:17
my time is way to limited
11:18
but stgraber already expressed some interest ... if debian wouldt always be so behind on stuff we could just use their packages :/
11:18
<nubae>
so far the alpha 6 is ok... been using it for a while... just needed the usb fix...
11:18
which has already been posted... so I have no problems with it
11:18
<ogra>
but it would break heavily in intrepid if i pulled just the lenny packages
11:18
i.e. no input at all etc
11:19
<nubae>
hmmm
11:19
<ogra>
yeah, filed bugs should still get some attention from my side
11:19
even after beta
11:19
but currently ubuntu-mobile keeps me massively busy
11:19
and jaunty will be worse
11:19
<nubae>
well, I'm learning more and more, hopefully I can help out in the future
11:20* ogra didnt expect to drown in 100s of mails a day after he released ubuntu-mobile
11:20
<nubae>
that popular eh?
11:20
<ogra>
that would be best, getting a developer team together on ubuntu side
11:20
yeah, sadly
11:21
if i would have been able to predict that i would have released it a month earlier ... it was only supposed to show off some stuff we plan for jaunty ... but 100s of people use it
11:21
<nubae>
I've been asked to put sugar onto ltsp... so that will be more learning experience, except the sugar packages are like 6 months behind on ubuntu
11:21
<ogra>
http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/09/ubuntu-mobile-edition-news-and-first-boot-video/
11:21
yeah, jani didnt do many uploads of sugar after getting it in basically
11:22
<nubae>
does he want someone else to take over packaging do u know?
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11:22
<ogra>
no idea
11:22
mail him :)
11:23
<nubae>
well on launchpad there is a new sugar group set up 3 weeks ago
11:23
not sure the relation to jani
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11:24
<nubae>
but I'll mail him
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11:24
<nubae>
just one quick question... if I set up a cron job to copy across just non system users to the chroot daily, is there a security issue there?
11:25
<ogra>
ah, i remember your paste ...
11:25
make sure to start at UID 1000
11:26
<nubae>
ok, Fedora starts at 500...
11:26
its the simplest solution I could come up with and it works great, but wonder about security
11:26
<ogra>
ah, i didnt know you implement that on fedora
11:26
its surey not massively secure
11:26
<nubae>
well, I'm trying to keep it open, but the ubuntu one will start at 1000
11:26
<ogra>
but i its only in your own network you can indeed close it down, put ssh keys in place etc
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11:43
<nubae>
funny I just noticed the edubuntu logo has chn
11:43
changed
11:49
<ogra>
did it ?
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11:57
<nubae>
maybe its just me... the one guy with his hand pointing up seems to be the official logo on the site, so maybe its always been like that, but I just noticed it on the top menu too, and my older edubuntu install doesnt have that
11:58
<ogra>
well, it was always like that
11:59
i replace distributor-logo.png in edubuntu-artwork since day one
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12:03
<nubae>
yeah I probably have a mix of ubuntu and edubuntu on the old system
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12:20
<Lns>
Is there any word on nbdrootd procs being left behind? I've been told before it doesn't affect stability/performance but was wondering if there is a way to clean them up (besides obviously rebooting).
12:20
gnome-watchdog doesn't help as it only deletes procs owned by the user logging in, and nbdrootd runs as 'nobody'.
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12:27
<stgraber>
I have pushed some of the fixes I have done here for ltsp-cluster in: https://code.launchpad.net/~stgraber/ltsp/ltsp-trunk
12:28
I haven't tried regenerating a new chroot with these but run individually they work fine
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12:46
<Lns>
Bueller?
12:46
=p
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12:52
<nubae>
hi Lns
12:53
<Lns>
nubae: hey!
12:53
how's it going
12:54
<nubae>
yah not bad... just finished writing fat client plugin... working nicely...
12:56
<Lns>
nubae: nice. what does it do?
12:59
<nubae>
builds a fat client in the chroot instead of thin client
12:59
basically a netbooted workstation
13:00
<Lns>
nubae: ooh, *the* fat client plugin. =p
13:00
nubae: how is the performance?
13:00
compared to a TC
13:00
<nubae>
pretty damn nice... if u have the ram
13:01
<Lns>
nubae: how much would you say is required?
13:01
probably at least 256 i'd imagine, with gnome/firefox/etc
13:01
<nubae>
the main thing is, u can run video, audio, flash, blender, etc without any issues
13:01
yeah but it will even run on 128
13:01
<Lns>
nubae: how does authentication work?
13:01
<nubae>
I have a thincan here and it runs on that
13:01
I chose the simples path... copy non system users to the chroot with cron
13:02
<Lns>
ah
13:02
so does your fat client plugin use nbd or nfs?
13:02
<nubae>
nbd
13:02
<Lns>
nice
13:02
<nubae>
could work with nfs too, but this is faster
13:03
<Lns>
and all fat clients are still diskless?
13:03
<nubae>
only thing is had to figure out how to do the user synch between server and client... since nbd needs to be rebuilt every time user is put in
13:03
yep, but they can access local disks too
13:03
home is mounted over nfs
13:04
<Lns>
So even loading a hefty s/w like OOo is fairly quick?
13:04
wait...its all loaded in RAM isn't it if it's nbd?
13:04
the whole chroot
13:04
<nubae>
I'm running it right now on my test machine which is a 500mhz celeron with 500 mb ram
13:04
and its quite usable
13:05
<Lns>
oh nm
13:05
<nubae>
I'll send u the plugin if u want to take a look
13:05
<Lns>
its ok... i wish i had the time to test it out :)
13:05* Lns needs to take care of his 7 LTSP TC sites first
13:06
<nubae>
yeah... I hear ya... if u ever need any help with maintenance... I'm here :-)
13:06
got a lot of time on my hands right now
13:06
<Lns>
nubae: really
13:06
what do you mean by maintenance?
13:07
<nubae>
help with the servers... any kind
13:07
I know ltsp like the back of my hand now
13:07
<vagrantc>
Lns: you could either bind mount or unionfs mount /etc/group and /etc/passwd for the syncing ...
13:08
nubae: oops, that was to you ^^
13:08
<Lns>
vagrantc: oh wow you can mount single files w/unionfs?
13:08
<nubae>
thats the other option I was looking at... but looks complicated
13:08* Lns doesn't know much about nbd
13:09
<vagrantc>
nubae: well, you could have a cron job that copies those files to an NFS share... and have a cron job or other script that looks for updates to those files and merges them into the thin-client as it's running.
13:09
or use something other than NFS
13:10
<nubae>
merging how?
13:10
<vagrantc>
well, how do you do it now?
13:10
clearly you already have a way to handle it, no?
13:11
<nubae>
copy across non system users and rebuild image
13:11
its in a cron.daily script
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13:11
<vagrantc>
so, instead of re-building the whole image, copy the files somewhere the thin-clients can get at, and if they're updated, copy them into place on the thin-client
13:11
<Lns>
Obviously something like LDAP would be a more elegant solution, although a whole other ball of wax
13:11
<vagrantc>
indeed
13:12
simpler in some ways, more complicated in others.
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13:12
<nubae>
yeah thats possible, but then I have to make sure the server and client are installed and all the config files, its much more complex
13:12
<ogra>
rsync through ssh would be an elegant solution
13:12* ogra always fails to see whats elegant about ldap
13:12
<Lns>
vagrantc: definitely... but you know, LDAP seems to fit well with LTSP in many viewpoints
13:12
<vagrantc>
nubae: if you're already mounting /home over nfs, you could copy /etc/group and /etc/passwd there...
13:13* ogra always thinks about ldap as a sucks least solution, but the wrod elegant would never cdome to his mind
13:13
<nubae>
how do I get the thin client then to read it there?
13:13
<vagrantc>
nubae: cron job on the thin client/
13:13
?
13:13
<nubae>
ok, so cronjob that copies from nfs mount to local?
13:14
<Lns>
ogra: well IMHO, LDAP is a much more stable solution than having "copies" of user/group data in different places that can get out of sync
13:14
<vagrantc>
nubae: right
13:14
nubae: or play with bind-mounting them...
13:14
<nubae>
hmmm... yeah I'll look at that, but I think the other solution I can implement right away...
13:14
I'll keep bind mounting for version 2
13:15
:-)
13:15
ok... going to eat bbl
13:15* ogra thought that was v2 :)
13:15
<ogra>
didnt you start that in gutsy ?
13:15
<nubae>
yeah but this is one that is publicly usable
13:15
the other one needed lots of manual tweaks
13:15
this needs none, it just wokrs
13:15
works even
13:17
<Lns>
ogra / vagrantc: can I pick your brain for a sec re: nbdrootd procs being left behind? Is there any way to clean them up nicely?
13:17
<ogra>
well, lets look if we can pull it into the extra-plugins stuff in the ubuntu package so you can get some feedback
13:17
Lns, tcpd should care
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13:17
<ogra>
tehy will stick around for the keepalive time it has compiled in
13:18
<Lns>
ogra: what is the keepalive time? I'm sure it's not long, all of my hardy servers have stale nbdroot procs owned by 'nobody'
13:18
<ogra>
might be 10h, i forgot
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13:18
<Lns>
oh wow
13:18
<ogra>
probably vagrantc still remembers
13:18
we once looked that up
13:19
<Lns>
i doubt there's an lts.conf/other option to change that, eh?
13:19
<Gadi>
2h
13:19
<Lns>
Gadi!
13:19
<Gadi>
lns!
13:19
<Lns>
hmm.
13:19
=p
13:19
<Gadi>
you can adjust keepalive time in procfs
13:19
<ogra>
no, its a server side setting
13:20
nothing to adjust n lts.conf
13:20
<Lns>
ogra: oh yeah, duh.
13:20
Gadi: any reason why it can't be shorter of a time? I'm assuming keepalive is so that if network connectivity is lost it doesn't have to respawn.. ?
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13:21
<ogra>
ask tcpd upstream ?
13:21
<Gadi>
no - keepalive sends messages to the client and kills the daemon if the client does not respond after that time
13:22
depending upon the daemon you are having tcpd monitor, you may want long or short times
13:22
I think 2h is a compromise
13:22
<ogra>
i really think its much longer
13:22
<Lns>
Gadi: ok, so what if the client reboots? does it use a specific socket for that proc? in other words, if the client reboots and spawns a new nbdrootd process, will the old one timeout?
13:22
<Gadi>
also depending upon the network
13:23
the old one should time out, I think
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13:23
<ogra>
yeah
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13:23
<Lns>
it's weird..I have 3 logged in users on one server w/72 nbdrootd procs running
13:24
in a 35 TC lab
13:24
<Gadi>
well, are all thin clients on?
13:24
users don't matter
13:24
(I love saying that)
13:24
<Lns>
lol
13:24
thats true. i'm sure the TCs are on, yes
13:24
<Gadi>
nbd is about workstations that are on
13:24
irregardless of users
13:24
<ogra>
so each uses one nbdswap and one nbdrootd
13:24
<Lns>
right...but why have twice as may procs as TCs?
13:25
<ogra>
in case you have swap enabled
13:25
<Lns>
ogra: i grepped 'nbdrootd' specificaly
13:26
ok I think i get it more now... definitely, if the stations are on nbdrootd will be active (users don't matter!).. maybe the old procs were just because of a whole lab reboot recently.
13:26
All other sites have 30-40 nbdrootd's running, which is normal i'm sure.
13:28
<Gadi>
Lns: cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_keepalive_time
13:28
btw
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13:28
<Lns>
Gadi: ty!
13:29
Gadi: 7200
13:29
<Gadi>
in other words, you can adjust with /etc/sysctl.conf, if you like
13:29
7200 = 120 * 60 seconds = 2 hours
13:30
<Lns>
Gadi: cool. wasn't sure the units
13:31* Lns loves his "district-wide script for running commands automatically" script
13:31
<Lns>
7200 at all sites.
13:31
So, ok, it's a non-issue I guess. :) Thanks for the clarification all
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13:45
<ogra>
yippiiiie
13:45* ogra dances
13:45
<stgraber>
ogra: ?
13:46
<ogra>
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mobile/intrepid/current/ ...
13:46
finally got the datacenter convinced to do what i want
13:46
<stgraber>
s/cdimage/chromium/
13:46* ogra was hacking on the build scripts for day snow
13:46
<ogra>
*days
13:47
<stgraber>
doh, chromium is as slow as beryllium ... will be hard to do ISO testing for the beta
13:47* stgraber dances too :)
13:48
<stgraber>
ltsp-build-client --arch i386 --ltsp-cluster --ltsp-cluster-control 192.168.0.4 --ltsp-cluster-lbserver 192.168.0.5
13:48
and you get ltsp-cluster installed and configured
13:48
<ogra>
706M ... not even that big
13:48
congrats !
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<stgraber>
only bad point, it's using a PPA and then has to use -y --force-yes
13:49
when will we have signed PPAs ? :)
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13:50
<ogra>
stgraber, there is a bug ...
13:53
hmm, cant find it
13:53
<stgraber>
yeah, for a long time I guess
13:54
<ogra>
yeap
13:54
<stgraber>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/125103 ?
13:54
<ogra>
cjwatson subscribed me once but i lost it it seems
13:55
yep, thats the one
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14:26
<vagrantc>
stgraber: looks like i had a little time anyways ... so, regarding your patches ...
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14:26
<vagrantc>
stgraber: curious if for the password loop we couldn't do "while ! passwd root ; do ..." instead of set +e passwd root ... while $? = 0 ... passwd root ...
14:28
stgraber: the PULSE_SERVER thing should probably only happen if SOUND=True ... which i think should be available in the script. and then you'll need boolean_is_true from ltsp-common-functions (or wherever it is)...
14:31
stgraber: and it might be good practice to validate the sudoers file with visudo -c -f /etc/sudoers and revert if problems arise...
14:33
stgraber: i'd actually do things like adding ltsp-cluster-client to EARLY_PACKAGES or LATE_PACKAGES rather than installing directly... and using the mirror related functions to add that stuff
14:33
stgraber: but if ogra finds it acceptible as is, i don't see any reason not to merge it.
14:34
<ogra>
i agree with your comments, and beyond that trust your judgement :)
14:34
if you want it usable on debian you should also make sure the package depends on sudo
14:35
<Gadi>
if aplugin installs other ltsp-related packages, shouldn't we review the code there, too?
14:35
before merging it into upstream
14:36
<warren>
Gadi: vagrantc: ogra: i have to tag things later today or early tomorrow
14:36
get stuff in
14:37
<ogra>
feel free
14:37
<Gadi>
warren: !!!
14:37
<ogra>
i'm in beta freeze
14:37
<warren>
ogra: did you folks disable the e1000e driver for the beta?
14:37
<ogra>
and dont do much work on ltsp anyway (no time for that, mobile is to groundbraking )
14:37
<warren>
ogra: pretty nasty!
14:37
destroying hardware and all that
14:37
<ogra>
warren, yes
14:37
but i think there was a recent fix
14:38
so it might be enabled by the actual beta release
14:38
yeah
14:38
<warren>
ogra: not according to my read upstream...
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14:38
<warren>
ogra: there isn't a fix yet, only patches to help identify what is causing it
14:39
<ogra>
ah, right, i mixed that up with a fix to e1000
14:39
e1000e is still broken
14:39
<warren>
very
14:40
<ogra>
the mean thing is that tesing can get really expensive if you work on that bug
14:40
<warren>
yes, which is why everyone is deferring to Intel
14:40
everyone is disabling the driver for now
14:40
<Q-FUNK>
hm
14:40
<warren>
pretty bad given all intel hardware for almost 2 years needs e1000e
14:40
<ogra>
who are not the fastes to do fixes by own experience
14:40
<warren>
my older ICH7 hardware uses e1000e but isn't effected by the problem
14:41
<Q-FUNK>
given the break on e1000, I wouldn't be surprised if a similar fuck up in the kernel is what prevents the deb60 from working
14:41
<warren>
Q-FUNK: don't make assumptions
14:41
<ogra>
and e1000 is fine :)
14:41
<warren>
Q-FUNK: e1000e seems to be a stupid design decision in the ICH8 and ICH9 hardware
14:41
<ogra>
e1000e isnt
14:41
<warren>
ogra: e1000e on pre-ICH8 is fine
14:41* ogra kicks hal
14:41
<Q-FUNK>
ditto for recent changes in the wifi driver
14:42
<ogra>
evil thing
14:42
<warren>
Q-FUNK: there were other big changes in 2.6.26+ that might be of concern
14:42
<Q-FUNK>
yup
14:42
and many of those came from intel
14:42
<warren>
Linus forced people to rip out an entire part of the VM for example, because it was ugly. It made performance really bad.
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14:42
<warren>
He's forcing people to fix it.
14:43* ogra is happy so far with 2.6.27 though
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<Nubae>
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<cliebow>
petre:ping
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