IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 29 December 2016   (all times are UTC)

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15:29
<cliebow>
sbalneav Scottie
15:29
!
15:29
<sbalneav>
Hey cliebow!
15:29
Hope you had a Merry Christmas!
15:29
And a happy new year
15:29
<cliebow>
not yet 8~)
15:30
had a couple daughters nd a grandson home together..that was nice
15:30
What fundamental difference is ther between these two lines..one breaks cgi..the other doesnt
15:31
my $date=`date +"%b%d"`;
15:31
# my $date=localtime;
15:31
chomp $date;
15:31
they look identical with strings..just trying to shorten date stamp
15:32
<sbalneav>
Hmmm, not a perl expert, one sec
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15:34
<sbalneav>
sbalneav@ltsp20:~$ cat foo.pl
15:34
#!/usr/bin/perl
15:34
my $date=localtime;
15:34
chomp $date;
15:34
print $date;
15:34
sbalneav@ltsp20:~$ ./foo.pl
15:34
Thu Dec 29 09:34:39 2016sbalneav@ltsp20:~$
15:34
works for me
15:36
<cliebow>
gotta trigger the output
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15:46
<sbalneav>
wb vagrantc
15:46
<bennabiy>
wow, amazing to see people all on at the same itme
15:46
time
15:51* vagrantc waves
15:53
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: What do we need to accomplish next, in your humble opinion?
15:55
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: presuming the sshauth/pam/nss stuff is satisfactorially resolved... probably ltspd's functionality to replace lts.conf and all that
15:55
<sbalneav>
ok, I'm waiting for the code dump from Alkis, once I have that, I'll get to work
15:56
<vagrantc>
i should also take a look at packaging the sshauth stuff such that we could replace libpam-sshauth with it, though last i looked you had already done much of the work for that
15:56* vagrantc got some ltspd config file parsing stuff via email a while back
15:57
<vagrantc>
~15th december
15:57
<sbalneav>
Right, but alkisg said they also had some web stuff done as well
15:57
<bennabiy>
wow, is progress actually being made? I might be able to help at some point here as well
15:57
<sbalneav>
He was gonna look it up.
15:57
<vagrantc>
ah, nice.
15:58
<sbalneav>
bennabiy: https://git.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/+git/ltsp-pam
15:58
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: yes... i'm hopeful we might see ltsp6 in 2017
15:58
<bennabiy>
YAY!
15:59
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: i don't imagine it'll be that hard, but given that we haven't implemented thin clients, remoteapps might be more important
16:00
or at least ltsp5.99999
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16:02
<sbalneav>
Now, how should we do that, just provide a "remote" command, and let people make their own desktop icons?
16:03
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: i haven't tested any of the ltsp-pam commits from 2016-12-23 ... i should probably do that
16:03
<sbalneav>
Yeah, give 'em a try; things are pretty configurable.
16:04
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: i wonder if we can do some sshfs mount trickery to automatically populate the remote desktop entries
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16:04
<vagrantc>
e.g. mount a dir with all the stuff copied to it, add it to XDG_DATA_DIRS, copy and tweak the .desktop files on the remote server or something
16:05
i guess tying it to sshfs is a little limiting
16:05
or even ssh at all
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16:06
<vagrantc>
e.g. if they're doing say, LDAP-based auth with NFS homedirs ... silly to require ssh
16:06
<sbalneav>
right.
16:06
<vagrantc>
of course, if that's what they're doing ... they could easily do that without LTSP :)
16:07
<sbalneav>
Since it's just a limited number of apps that you'd tend to want to do remote... maybe just a script with an rc.d type dir that auto-creates the remote .desktop entries?
16:08
Here
16:09
's a little "remote" command I'm using at LA:
16:12
http://pastebin.com/Ztm63zDR
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16:12
<sbalneav>
you'd say (on the client) "remote-client iceweasel"
16:13
Note that it encodes all the command line parameters in base64
16:13
that way, you don't have ridiculous escaping difficulties to deal with with goofy file names.
16:16
<vagrantc>
clever trick :)
16:17
it does require support server-side ... i guess you could even copy the client-side script server-side and execute it
16:17
actually, we could generate a python snippit, scp it over, and execute it
16:18
as long as we stuck with core python functionality...
16:18
<sbalneav>
sys, base64 and subprocess are
16:18
<vagrantc>
which is basically what ansible does... :)
16:19
sbalneav: if you generated the server-side part and copied it, you wouldn't have to use base64
16:20
<sbalneav>
Where would we stick this executable-that-we-generate?
16:21
/tmp?
16:22
<vagrantc>
sure, /tmp or ~/.local/somedir ... or whatever, really
16:22
i *think* ansible uses ~/.somedir
16:23
yeah, it uses ~/.ansible/tmp/
16:23
some risk of stuff getting leftover from aborted processes
16:26
<sbalneav>
hm
16:26
I could try coding something up
16:27
<vagrantc>
i'm not *positive* this is a good approach ... but it basically means all they need server-side is python + whatever commands you're running
16:27
could also do it in shell, but as you noted, then we get into filename escape hell
16:28
<sbalneav>
Couldn't we simply have the remote server side command sitting in /srv/ltsp/scripts?
16:29
then on the server, execute "/srv/ltsp/scripts/...."?
16:29
rather than the copy?
16:30
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: well, then you need to have remote server-side support
16:31
sbalneav: which may introduce compatibilitiy issues when the client and server-side versions differ
16:31
<sbalneav>
hm, ok
16:31
<vagrantc>
cross-computer dependencies are kind of nightmarish to maintain
16:32
<sbalneav>
So where would be the standard tmp dir for the home directory? .local/tmp?
16:32
is that a standard somewhere?
16:32
<vagrantc>
not sure off the top of my head
16:33
granted, maybe you've got a system with python3 and python2 ... so maybe the compatibility nightmares are still there
16:33
<sbalneav>
Well, I'll start with .local/tmp, and we'll fix it later if there's a better place
16:34
for what we're doing, python 2/3 differences should be minimal
16:34
<vagrantc>
uh-oh ... does libpam-python support python3 ?
16:34
<sbalneav>
Dunno.
16:34
I'd have to see.
16:34
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: i'd say .local/ltsp/
16:34
<sbalneav>
.local/ltsp? ok
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16:35
<vagrantc>
would be really good to ensure new code is python3 ...
16:35
<sbalneav>
I think the pam-python library specifically calls 2
16:36
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: .local/ltsp/remoteapps/example-XXXXXXX (mktemp style or soemthing)
16:36
<sbalneav>
yeah, depends on libpython2.7 (>= 2.7)
16:36* vagrantc sighs
16:36
<sbalneav>
That bad?
16:37
<vagrantc>
python2 has an EOL that's not so far off
16:39
python 2 end-of-life ~2020
16:39* vagrantc lives in a world of scifi
16:41
<vagrantc>
i mean, i'm sure it'll live on like a zombie
16:41
but i'd hate to have long-term dependencies on zombies
16:41
<sbalneav>
All we'd need to do is submit patches upstream for pam-python to support python 3
16:41
I'd take that on.
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16:42* vagrantc continues to be amazed at sbalneav's can-do attitude
16:43
<sbalneav>
ok, I'll work on an initial implementation of a "remote" command today
16:43
<bennabiy>
sbalneav: off work for a little time?
16:44
<sbalneav>
Nope, I'm at work now. It just happens to be slow. :D
16:44
<bennabiy>
ah
16:44
<sbalneav>
And since I administer an entire IT department that uses ltsp....
16:45
developing ltsp is part of my job XD
16:45
<vagrantc>
yay!
16:46
<bennabiy>
That works. It works something similar for me, but I have a couple other projects which are at front burner now, but I am encouraged to see a little thrust towards 5.9999 -> 6 :)
16:46
It almost was starting to feel like alkisg and vagrantc were getting worn out ;)
16:48
<vagrantc>
and here's a python2 countdown https://pythonclock.org/
16:52
hrm. so debian stretch will probably have ended support about the same time as python2, although stretch long-term-support might have challenges
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17:23
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: well, tested the latest ltsp-pam commits, seems to work after hitting it a bit
17:23
bennabiy: well, if you'd like to give it a test:
17:23
!pam | echo bennabiy
17:23
<ltsp>
bennabiy pam: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Dev:LTSPPamNotes
17:23
<vagrantc>
that's kind of where it's at
17:23
i updated that a few days ago, think it's still reasonably current
17:24
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: I should be able to test that out in the next couple days
17:24
<vagrantc>
it currently only works with fat clients ...
17:25
though i think there's some code to support thin clients, but i don't know that long-term we'll be able to support it
17:36
i wonder if we should start tracking bugs on ltsp-pam
17:36
<sbalneav>
Prolly
17:36
<vagrantc>
e.g. using launchpad
17:38
i wish there were a bugs-per VCS or soemthing ... i have no idea how to file bugs on this
17:39
and https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream just gives me a search interface for bugs ...
17:39
how do i file a bug?
17:40
and if the search comes up empty, it doesn't provide a link to create a bug
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17:46
<vagrantc>
apparently, i was looking for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+filebug
17:49* vagrantc was thinking if we recreate an ltsp-docs package, to use markdown and pandoc (or some other markdown-to-pdf exporter) rather than the docbook-xml mess
17:49
<vagrantc>
i think it'd be easier to edit and maintain if the text were more plaintext-readable
17:51
<sbalneav>
I use rst myself
17:53
where did the old ltsp-docs package go?
17:54
I'm not seeing it on https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/
17:57
<vagrantc>
maybe under ltsp-docwriters or one of the other half-dozen ltsp subgroups
17:57
https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-docwriters/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trun
17:58
k
17:58
<sbalneav>
found it, yeah.,
17:58
<vagrantc>
i'd be fine with .rst too ... though i've got more other projects using markdown, so minor bias in that direction
17:59
though until we have something to document for ltsp6, it's a bit premature to worry about that
18:03
!todo
18:03
<ltsp>
I do not know about 'todo', but I do know about these similar topics: 'bennabiy_todo', 'todo-jammcq-sbalneav', 'alkisg-todo'
18:03
<vagrantc>
!alkisg-todo
18:03
<ltsp>
alkisg-todo: (#1) support xnbd-proxy for local caching: https://bitbucket.org/hirofuchi/xnbd/wiki/Home#!scenario-2-simple-proxy-server-distributed-copy-on-write, or (#2) Support UEFI, or (#3) support for per-user login commands in lts.conf, or (#4) put panic=60 in the kernel cmdline, or (#5) document bind-interfaces, or (#6) test the null cipher with https://launchpad.net/~yoda-jazz-kc/+archive/ubuntu/hpn-ssh, or (#7) (1 more message)
18:04
<vagrantc>
!todo-jammcq-sbalneav
18:04
<ltsp>
todo-jammcq-sbalneav: delete or close http://sourceforge.net/p/ltsp/mailman/ltsp-beginners/ http://sourceforge.net/p/ltsp/mailman/ltsp-announce/ http://sourceforge.net/p/ltsp/mailman/ltsp-translations/
18:05
<vagrantc>
!bennabiy_todo
18:05
<ltsp>
bennabiy_todo: Finish patching LinuxMint code to detect NON mint chroot build requests on mint, and to build a mint chroot on non mint server.
18:16
<bennabiy>
!forget bennabiy_todo
18:16
<ltsp>
The operation succeeded.
18:17
<bennabiy>
I think I got that working
18:18
<vagrantc>
good good
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18:22
<jammcq>
hey guys, love what i'm seeing/hearing about ltsp6 so far. I'm looking forward to what you guys are cooking up
18:23
<vagrantc>
jammcq: heya!
18:23
<jammcq>
hey hey vagrantc
18:23
<vagrantc>
i think we've moving very close to the "user may have no idea they're using LTSP at all" goal
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18:34
<sbalneav>
jammcq!
18:35
<vagrantc>
and cliebow, no less.
18:35
what is this, some sort of reuinion? :)
18:35
<jammcq>
sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
18:35
<sbalneav>
Synchronicity
18:35* sbalneav rocks out to The Police
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18:37* jammcq is rocking out to Supertramp, live in Paris
18:38
<vagrantc>
live, as in, recorded? :)
18:38
<jammcq>
heh, yeah
18:38
I tried to get them to come to my house and play in my living room... so far, not happening
18:46* vagrantc kicks ltsp.org
18:47* vagrantc forgets who had access to the ltsp.org web server
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18:58* vagrantc cheers
18:58
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: for this remote implementation, do you want me to #!/usr/bin/python3
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19:10
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: yeah, would be preferrable
19:10
sbalneav: i guess distros might need to patch that if they don't ship python3 as /usr/bin/python3
19:10
<sbalneav>
Or should I just make it python 3 workable, and #!/usr/bin/python?
19:10
<vagrantc>
the other thing i've seen projects do is #!/usr/bin/env python3
19:11
sbalneav: i'd be inclined to just go with python3 ... but really depends on how much more complicated it is
19:12
<sbalneav>
ok
19:12* bennabiy votes for python3
19:12
<vagrantc>
given that this is a new project, and we're hoping to not actually require anything outside of python's core modules...
19:12
<bennabiy>
might as well bite the bullet now, unless there is a good reason not to
19:13
<sbalneav>
agreed
19:13
<vagrantc>
are there distros that don't ship python version 3?
19:13
<bennabiy>
there are version which do not have python3 as the default for python, but not sure about not available
19:14
<vagrantc>
right, debian still defaults to python2
19:14
er, usr/bin/python -> python2
19:15
<bennabiy>
yes
19:15
but it ships with python3 as well, correct?
19:15
<vagrantc>
might have to search for the python binary name
19:15
yes, as /usr/bin/python3*
19:16
(there are numerous symlinks to specific versions)
19:16
<bennabiy>
thought so
19:16* vagrantc wonders what fedora's python landscape is like
19:16
<bennabiy>
fire up a VM ;)
19:16
<vagrantc>
i really should just have a fedora live image to fire up in a VM
19:16
<bennabiy>
are we going to have fedora supported again?
19:17
<vagrantc>
there should be a lot less to maintain
19:17
so hopefully?
19:18
<bennabiy>
that would be great
19:19
in general, there would have to be a list of distro specific names for apps, and the typical locations of them
19:20* vagrantc wonders if opensuse wouln't need to actually reimplement everything in kiwi-ltsp if we do this right
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19:20
<bennabiy>
perhaps
19:20
<vagrantc>
bennabiy: what do you mean?
19:21
ah, we'll need cross-distro communication ... e.g. a Debian client logging into a Fedora server will need to know which python implementation to use
19:21
but that's about it
19:21
<bennabiy>
vagrantc: I was just thinking that between the centos/fedora line and the say, debian/ubuntu line , some binaries are named differently
19:21
<vagrantc>
i think the number of binaries we'll need will be quite small
19:21
<bennabiy>
yes
19:22
<vagrantc>
so that might even be a non-issue if those happen to be consistant
19:22
<bennabiy>
true
19:22
<vagrantc>
and we can rely onm $PATH
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19:57
<vagrantc>
well, apparently fedora 25 only has python3 by default
19:57
for what that's worth
19:58
<sbalneav>
So they won't have pam_python
19:58
<vagrantc>
oh.
20:01
sbalneav: apparently there is a python3-PyPam package, though
20:02
<sbalneav>
oh?
20:02
in fedora? and Debian?
20:02
<vagrantc>
"PAM (pluggable Authentication Module) bindings for Python 3."
20:02
in fedora
20:02
called python3-pampy in debian
20:03* vagrantc sighs
20:03* vagrantc laughs
20:03* vagrantc wonders
20:03
<sbalneav>
Not the same thin.
20:04
It's the same as the debian package python-pam
20:04
which is not libpam-python :D
20:06
<vagrantc>
ah.
20:06
i just found python-pam
20:07
not the same thing... but what's the difference between python-pam and libpam-python ?
20:07
with python-pam or python3-pampy ... would we have to write some C code again and then ccall the python bits?
20:07
<sbalneav>
python-pam allows you to create applications that call the pam stack; i.e. if you wanted to write, say, a display manager in python that calls the pam stack to authenticate.
20:08
libpam-python allows you to actually create modules that run ON THE PAM STACK, in python.
20:08
<vagrantc>
ah, it's which direction you're looking at pam from
20:08
<sbalneav>
right.
20:08
so python-pam I'd call "client side"
20:09
<vagrantc>
so, apparently, libpam-python not only needs python3 support, but also needs to be made available in fedora/centos/whatever
20:09
<sbalneav>
right.
20:10
The latter isn't much of a problem.
20:10
I'll send an email to the libpam-python author
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20:10
<sbalneav>
offer to help with a python3 port.
20:11
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: i already created a libpam-python python3 support bug in launchpad and assigned it to you :)
20:15
<sbalneav>
heh
20:16
<vagrantc>
fwiw, python2 is available in fedora, no idea if they have any policies regarding new python2 code
20:25
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field
20:25
.structural_subscriber=&field.tag=ltsp6&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.affects_me.used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_branches.used=&field.has_branches=on&field.has_no_branches.used=&field.has_no_branches=on&field.has_blueprints.used=&field.has_blueprints=on&field.has_no_blueprints.used=&field.has_no_blueprints=on&search=Search
20:25
whoah
20:25
that was supposed to be a link to the ltsp bugs marked ltsp6
20:25
tagged ltsp6
20:26
but not exactly useable
20:26
<sbalneav>
It took me to a porn site.
20:26
I'm offended
20:28
<vagrantc>
thanks launchpad for killing ltsp6.
20:28* vagrantc shakes fists angrily
20:34
<sbalneav>
hmmm, can you use scp with a crontrol socket?
20:35
ah
20:35
-o ControlPath=black
20:35
blah
20:35
even
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21:01
<sbalneav>
vagrantc: Take a look at the first cut of the "remote" command.
21:02
It's a long way from perfect, but it copies the remote command, sets up the .local/ltsp dir, encodes the params, etc.
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