IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 9 February 2018   (all times are UTC)

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16:02
<nehemiah>
We're trying to use LTSP within a Linux container. We got quite far but now, trying to create the client image, we get this error: 'No overlay or aufs support detected'. What am I missing?
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16:31
<nehemiah>
Found out that I have to load the overlay module on the host.
16:43
<alkisg>
LTSP needs a whole lot of bandwidth, why would you run it in a container?
16:43
You have a server that has e.g. 10 network cards and you want to host multiple ltsp servers there?!
17:21
<||cw>
should be fine for fat clients on an otherwise underused server
17:22
boot storm would swamp the NICs, but that should last too long
17:22
<alkisg>
Isn't the point of containers to host multiple servers?
17:23
LTSP needs a full server on its own... and you can run VMs inside LTSP if you have spare CPU/RAM...
17:23
So I wonder what's the actual use case there
17:24
<||cw>
yes, but not all the containers have to be the same workload
17:24
you could run a ltsp container and a web server container
17:25
I have a remote office that I have 1 server, it runs a samba file server, firewall/router, windows TS, and ltsp is used only to run rdp to that windows TS server. it's several years old now and still heavily overspec'd for the task
17:26
<nehemiah>
The idea is that the server does a whole lot more then just LTSP. We have a powerful server and like to use it for more then just LTSP. Besides that we are trying to make a solution that easily to replicate since we are an growing organization with about 75 locations all over the world. It's very easy to replicate an LX container.
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18:04
<alkisg>
I believe it's a lot more easy to replicate an OS installation, than a container, because the container ALSO needs an installation
18:04
I can understand the need for containers when there's a lot of manual configuration needed, and a lot of containers exists on the same server etc...
18:05
But ltsp is so automated and it needs so many resources ... dunno I don't think I have a use case for ltsp in a container anywhere... ah maybe except inside windows installations
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19:38
<nehemiah>
Where can I add a kernel parameter in a way that it would stick after I update my client image?
19:38
<vagrantc>
update-kernels.conf
19:39
and then you have to regnerate all the files and so on
19:39
e.g. run update-kernels and ltsp-update-kernels and/or ltsp-update-image
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19:40
<vagrantc>
it's kind of cumbersome
19:40
mostly for historical reasons
19:40* vagrantc takes a bit of blame
19:47
<nehemiah>
Does that only work if you use ltsp-manager? I was trying now with just a custom chroot. But every time after rebuilding the image, the ipappend gets set back to 2 making the nbd boot fail on the clients. Setting that manually back to three fixes it but it would be nice if I got it to stick. The update-kernels command is not available, is that part of ltsp-manager?
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19:51
<vagrantc>
you have to edit the update-kernels.conf in the chroot, and run update-kernels from within the chroot
19:51
why doing a chroot now, anyways?
20:03
<nehemiah>
I'm open to all suggestions so I tell you what I'm facing and the decisions I have to make because I feel a little bit stuck between a rock and a hard place. We have a server that we'd like to use, we already have some containerized services and KVM's which are 64bit. We like to put all those thing on one server. The server will in a place specially prepared for it where a user usually doesn't have access to it. I thought that it would be
20:03
great to containerize LTSP too but there is a lot of opposition their. Based on what alksig suggested we could run a LTSP server and still have our containers and KVM running there. But we need to support 32bit clients. So, we tried to install Ubuntu 64bit and have a 32bit chroot. Hope that makes sense. If you have any suggestions, I'm more than happy to here them.
20:03
<vagrantc>
sure, that makes sense
20:05
that pretty much sounds one of the main use-cases where LTSP chroots still make sense...
20:11
<nehemiah>
Don't get me wrong. I like ltsp-manager and the seven steps that work great (if you follow that :p). But I'm just trying to figure out what's best in our situation.
20:13
<vagrantc>
yeah, needing to use a 64-bit server and 32-bit clients pretty much defines the need
20:14
only other option would really be to run a 32-bit LTSP server in a virtual machine or something instead of on the server directly
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20:37
<alkisg>
nehemiah: you can also do the opposite, have an 64bit "generic" server, with a 32 bit "ltsp-server" VM on it
20:37
That way you can manage the 32bit ltsp server VM with ltsp-manager, and boot all your clients from there
20:37
Usually 64bit clients don't need an 64bit OS, but the server does, because it may have more than e.g. 8 GB RAM.
20:51
<||cw>
32bit linux can still use 8GB ram, it's just a tiny bit slower on heavy ram usage
20:51
it just can't use more than 2GB per process
20:53
<vagrantc>
well, there are bugs that make ram above 8GB exponentially problematic
20:54
<||cw>
I think it'd still rather run ltsp in a VM than a container, especially if you're running VMs anyway
20:55
<vagrantc>
containers typically block access to device nodes, which make some aspects of building an LTSP image difficult, so yeah, a full VM is generally better
20:58
<||cw>
or tries to emulate the nodes, which is probably OK if you're offloading DHCP elsewhere entirely
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21:04
<alkisg>
||cw: there's a bug that makes hard disks unusable with more than 8gb ram and 32bit. It emerged last year.
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21:05
<alkisg>
I.e. disk access gets thousands of times slower
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21:39
<||cw>
interesting
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