IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 20 February 2017   (all times are UTC)

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07:40
<al-geo>
alkisg looks like i'm confused :( . is there some manual how to install simple (not pnp) ltsp with dnsmaqs to connect to router dhcp ?
07:42
<alkisg>
al-geo: when you follow the ltsp-pnp page, and then you run ltsp-build-client, you have what you're asking now
07:42
It's just not called ltsp-pnp anymore, since you now have a chroot
07:43
<al-geo>
but openssh-server on clients is not started
07:43
i didnt figure out how to fix it
07:43
<alkisg>
You need the fix from the bug report I gave you
07:44
You didn't need to run ltsp-build-client at all
07:44
Also, why do you need ssh on the clients?
07:44
Since you can run commands to them via epoptes?
07:47
<al-geo>
i need ssh :( my co-workers will not have connection with epoptes. they need direct ssh to clients
07:48
<alkisg>
OK
07:48
Just follow the steps mentioned in the bug report for ssh on ltsp
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08:04
<alkisg>
(it's also the same if you want to have ssh on ltsp-pnp; you just follow the steps from the bug report)
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10:01
<al-geo>
alkisg i | delete etc/ssh/ssh_host_*_key from /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.excludes | on server and | delete ssh-keygen -A from file /share/ltsp/cleanup.d/51-sshd on ltsp-chroot i386 | then install openssh-server and exit => ltsp-update-sshkeys, kernels, image, restart client but not help. what do i do wrong?
10:01
<alkisg>
al-geo: vnc to me to see, it'll take too long to check it via irc
10:01
!vnc-dide
10:01
<ltsp>
vnc-dide: To share your screen with me, run this: sudo apt-get --yes install x11vnc; x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr - this is a reverse connection, it doesn't need port forwarding etc.
10:04
<al-geo>
its on closed work LAN i cant open :( . did i do something wrong or its not enough ?
10:05
<alkisg>
3) Add "KEEP_SYSTEM_SERVICES=ssh" to lts.conf
10:05
Did you do that part?
10:05
<al-geo>
no i didnt find that
10:06
<alkisg>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1324545
10:09
<al-geo>
its too unclear maybe you can write down some step by step. because i didnt figure out what part to follow
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10:33
<markit>
hi alkisg, yesterday I had a quick look at i3 hardware is suggested in the site you pointed me to. I've been surprised, if google translated correctly, that ltsp clients have 128GB SSD... how is that?
10:34
<alkisg>
markit: no, that was the "standalone client" section, and below that, it says that "for ltsp clients, you don't need a disk/dvd"
10:36
<al-geo>
alkisg i did this too :( "KEEP_SYSTEM_SERVICES=ssh" to lts.conf no changes :(
10:36
<alkisg>
Sounds like you did something wrong then
10:38
<al-geo>
yep sounds like that :(
10:38
so i should start over?
10:39
new installation starting from OS
10:39
<alkisg>
Because you missed one step for ssh?
10:39
That doesn't sounds right to do...
10:40
<al-geo>
:D i dont like this too :D
10:41
<markit>
alkisg: I thought standalone client -> fat client , otherwise I would have called it "workstation" or "standalone PC", but thanks for the clarification :)
10:42
<alkisg>
School computer labs usually have a server/client architecture, even if they use windows; so we always call them "clients"
10:42
But sure workstation sounds fine too
10:43
<markit>
alkisg: btw, which is the "official wiki" of ltsp where I should find extensive troubleshooting (and updated) info? I've googled a little but seems ubuntu one is the most referred
10:43
<alkisg>
The official wiki is there: wiki.ltsp.org/wiki
10:43
Noone has contributed to it for maybe 3 years
10:45
<markit>
yes, that's why I asked, so you have to write the famous book I told you yesterday? ;P
10:45
<alkisg>
If someone pays me to do so, sure :)
10:45
Otherwise I'll stick to coding!
10:45
<markit>
well, maybe we can raise some money :)
10:45
<alkisg>
Feel free to try!
10:46
<markit>
you have to set the goal to reach and I could ask around (not very optimistic but who knows...)
10:47
<alkisg>
You can ask in general, "who would pay for ltsp documentation", and if you come up with anything, we can document as much as that funds will cover
10:48
<markit>
ok
10:49
<alkisg>
My experience is that people feel better if they pay for code or support, not for docs...
10:49
Maybe an ltsp book could work though
11:15
<al-geo>
alkisg it was my mistake :( i write down KEEP_SYSTEM_SERVICES=ssh at the end of file. not in [default] section :(
11:24
<alkisg>
al-geo: haha, markit had the same issue yesterday, putting things to the end of the file
11:25
<al-geo>
:D lamers mistake :d
11:41
<markit>
alkisg: ehm, maybe you'd better revise that example file... is a trap! I put that at the end so I could easely locate it and remved once experiment ended
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12:32
<alkisg>
markit: yup, it's a trap that catches those that don't read the file :P
12:32
<markit>
hahaha, good point!
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14:23
<BuddyButterfly>
hi
14:23
alkisg: tnx for the patch info. client boot is stable now!
14:24
alkisg: other question. Is it possible to have specific files (under /etc, for example) specific per client?
14:24
I am asking because I am using fat clients and I do have a client specific pulseaudio config (default.pa). Currently I configure this per user. But would need it per client.
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14:33
<kidar>
hi i have a proliant d160 with two 1tb hard drives and 16gig ram with xeon cpu. i would like to use this server in a class room enviroment where i have 20 hp thin clients with 4gig ram each. any help in setting it up would be great. thanks kidar
14:51
<BuddyButterfly>
hi kidar
14:51
do you want to use only 1 system for all or different systems (distributions)
14:52
<kidar>
yes
14:52
something like edubuntu
14:53
<BuddyButterfly>
easiest way would be to use ltsp-pnp, i.e. install edubuntu on server-side and use the clients as "fat clients".
14:53
also distributes the resource consumption to the clients.
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14:56
<alkisg>
!ltsp-pnp | echo kidar:
14:56
<ltsp>
kidar: ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
14:57
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: I was just about to paste the link also ;-)
14:57
tnx
14:57
<alkisg>
BuddyButterfly: put this in lts.conf: INIT_COMMAND_CP_ETC="cp /etc/$HOSTNAME/default.pa /etc/default.pa" or wherever else that goes to
14:58
The $HOSTNAME will be transformed to pc01, pc02 etc
14:58
So then just put all the files you want in /etc/pc01/default.pa, /etc/pc02/default.pa , and run ltsp-update-image -c /
14:59
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: wow, cool. So I guess the first client specific section will be pc01 and so forth?
14:59
<alkisg>
You can name clients with something like:
14:59
[mac:address]
14:59
HOSTNAME=pc01
15:00
<BuddyButterfly>
ah, so the $hostname is the parameter set in the client specific conf. Great!
15:00
<alkisg>
It's also used to actually set the hostname
15:00
So if you open a terminal, it'll show user@pc01
15:00
Not user@ltsp123
15:01
<BuddyButterfly>
cool, will try this immediately ;-)
15:01
yep, already have "speaking" hostnames....
15:02
alkisg: backgroudn: because clients also youse voip, I create signalling output combined devices to have ringing on loudspeakers and headsets, etc.....
15:03
youse, lol....
15:03
<alkisg>
BuddyButterfly: ideally, you'd dynamically create default.pa based on custom-defined lts.conf parameters
15:03
Like, MY_VOLUME=90 or whatever
15:05
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: Not a good way, I think. The parameters in lts.conf sections are good for some base parameters. Mapping all of them would make ltsp too dependend on an external component and would produce a lot of maintenance and would also never cover all settings of the external component anyway...
15:06
so I am fine with the decission to have basic parameters in lts.conf and the detailed conf separate for the external component.
15:07
In general "facade configuration" like the facade pattern is not soo good for configurations....
15:10
Maintenance explodes for such patterns: 1. Changes in ext. comp. have to be reflected and maintained. New versions, incompatibility for old versions, etc., 2. Coverage is unlikely to be 100%. So one always lacks features, etc.
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15:19
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: I do not find the INIT_COMMAND_CP_ETC be documented in man lts.conf?
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15:28
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: I guess this command parameter can be in global section? Or must it be in client specific section?
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15:40
<alkisg>
BuddyButterfly: all lts.conf parameters can be in either local or global section
15:41
About maintaining the configuration, you either need to maintain configuration files or code that edits/generates configuration files
15:41
<BuddyButterfly>
just was uncertain about the $HOSTNAME variable if this is also visible in global section.
15:42
<alkisg>
It's up to you to decide which of those 2 is more appropriate, but in any case, maintenance is needed
15:42
INIT_COMMAND_xx is like RCFILE_xx but it runs earlier
15:42
xx is whatever you like, 01, or some mnemonic
15:42
<BuddyButterfly>
ah, seems to be an undocumented feature ;-) But very cool!
15:43
alkisg: so global section gets parsed also for every client section? Then $HOSTNAME would be visible globally in file and not only in client section.
15:44
<alkisg>
Global section gets merged with local section and are *then* evaluated
15:44
<BuddyButterfly>
ahh, perfect! Tnx for enlightning ;-)
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16:41
<BuddyButterfly>
btw. epoptes is cool!
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16:47
<kidar>
alkisg the server fans, etc come on at high volume but do not go off. i loaded ubuntu mate which is working. hope i did right
16:54
<BuddyButterfly>
kidar: did you install lts 16.04?
16:55
<kidar>
yeh i did 16.04 mate
16:55
sorry had to step out earlier now back.
17:02
the server has a xeon cpu with 16gig ram. i do not know whether to buy the hp fat i5 fat client or the hp thin client with 4gig ram?
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17:16
<BuddyButterfly>
thin client would be enought, I think. all you need is ram, gpu and display ;-)
17:17
depends on the requirements for the clients.
17:17
<kidar>
hoping to load the education software.
17:17
<BuddyButterfly>
what resource consumption for education software?
17:19
disk is not needed. you normally map some nas share for that or the users use there home dir.
17:19
on the server
17:20
<kidar>
yeh that should be ok. but what about 20 clients listening to diff sounds of the server. from the education software like gcompris or so
17:21
<BuddyButterfly>
sound is working on the client. have it also. "apps" run on client side with fat client, so no problem.
17:21
I would suggest headsets then ;-)
17:21
would be a bit noisy with 20 clients, lol
17:21
<kidar>
so you would suggest fat clients
17:22
headphones taken care off :)
17:22
because the thin client has the following spec T520 Flexible Series Thin Client 16GB Flash Memory 4GB DDR3L-1600 SODIMM (1x4GB) RAM
17:22
and is 32bit
17:22
<BuddyButterfly>
yes, I would. with this you distribute the load and your server does not become so important.
17:23
ah, hmm, 32bit.
17:24
you installed amd64 on server, did you?
17:26
alkisg: we would have to ask alkisg if ltsp-pnp stays that simple for creating an i386 image.
17:26
it is simple when using same architecture, i.e. installed system.
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17:31
<BuddyButterfly>
kidar: if you have amd64 on server then you would have to create the image with 'ltsp-build-client --arch i386' to have i386 for clients. I am not sure if this is enought. just test it.
17:32
<alkisg>
kidar: what do you mean "fans do not go off"? you think that is a problem with ubuntu? what is the output of `uname -a`?
17:32
kidar: if you have i386 clients, then install i386 on the server too
17:33
But buying new clients that are not 64bit nowadays, sounds like a bad choice
17:33
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: agreed!
17:34
I do have only amd64 systems and even use a 128Bit fs ;-)
17:35
<alkisg>
Their cpu is gx-212jc with 1080 score on cpubenchmark.net
17:35
That's enough for a fat client. But an i5 would be 4 times faster
17:36
<kidar>
i installed amd 64bit on server
17:36
<BuddyButterfly>
kidar: then use 64Bit clients
17:36
<kidar>
ok so i go with i5 fat clients
17:37
<BuddyButterfly>
you have the option to upgrade ram much further if you have the requirments in later classes for sagemath or the like.
17:37
<kidar>
would i be able to use the same ltsp server for setting an adjust room where the pcs are old meaning would require i386 image
17:37
<alkisg>
kidar: cpuboss says this is a 64bit cpu
17:38
So it should boot fine from your amd64 installation
17:38
!ltsp-pnp
17:38
<ltsp>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
17:38
<alkisg>
"Your clients need to be the same architecture as your server, so if they're i386, you need to install the i386 Ubuntu variant in the server as well. If you have more than 4 Gb RAM don't worry, the default -pae kernel can access up to 64 Gb RAM. "
17:38
<kidar>
the server boots fine but it is noisy. had i installed windows or redhat there are drivers that kind of silence the fans
17:39
<alkisg>
That would be a question for #ubuntu or #ubuntu-server
17:40
Do the clients boot fine?
17:40
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: other question. I have moved the dhcp config to my central server. the only mismatch now is that # Kill multicast.(dhcp-option=vendor:pxe,6,2b)
17:40
<kidar>
ok, the adjacent room i was going to use for as an internet cafe using the old pcs
17:40
<BuddyButterfly>
is it absolutely necessary?
17:40
<kidar>
booting them up from the nic
17:41
<alkisg>
BuddyButterfly: I've read about it in some dnsmasq mailing list issue; i haven't seen it needed anywhere myself, so I'm not sure how "absolutely necessary" it is. Try it..
17:42
<BuddyButterfly>
will it be used at all if dnsmasq is in proxydhcp mode?
17:42
<alkisg>
kidar: then i would suggest you reinstall the server with i386
17:42
BuddyButterfly: not sure, possibly...
17:43
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: ok. will leave it away first.
17:43
<alkisg>
One would have to read the pxe spec again to be sure :D
17:44
<kidar>
any other suggestion for the internet cafe side
17:45
<alkisg>
kidar: other than install the server with i386?
17:45
Then use a second chroot with i386, but it'll take a lot more effort to maintain that
17:46
<kidar>
if i had to get another server just for the 12 internet pcs, what spec would you suggest
17:47
<alkisg>
Are all those fat clients too? E.g. more than 512 mb ram?
17:48
You have a good enough server to serve both labs; I don't think you should buy another one
17:48
But in general a server for 12 fat clients needs 4 gb ram and 1000 cpubenchmark score and gigabit networking
17:48
...which means, any recent pc
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17:53
<BuddyButterfly>
kidar: yep, I am running the ltsp server from a VM ;-)
17:53
therefore I am using only fat clients.
17:54
<kidar>
can you send me some help in setting up the hp server as a vm server :)
17:55
i have used oracle vmbox in ubuntu on my desktop but this will be my first to setup a serverin vm running ltsp
18:07
<BuddyButterfly>
kidar: but this would complicate all a bit more, though, I would prefer this myself. I would run an ubuntu server with kvm, would create 2 VMs, one amd64 and one i386 (you can add more), etc.
18:08
but then you have to have a central dhcp server where you direct the clients to the specific servers.
18:09
I am just about to switch completely to my central dhcp server....
18:09
<kidar>
or just get another i5 pc with 8 or 16 gig ram to run the internet side
18:10
<BuddyButterfly>
what do you mean the internet side?
18:10
<kidar>
i have this hp server that is going to serve the 20 fat clients for training.
18:11
in a room close by i want to setup an internet cafe with all the old pcs that i have.
18:11
<alkisg>
"old pcs" are pentium 4+, or even pentium 3?
18:12
<kidar>
p4
18:12
no p3
18:12
<alkisg>
Some p4 run better as thins
18:12
<BuddyButterfly>
kidar: hmmm, I know exactly how I would do it. Basically how I have it set up. but that is a bit involved....
18:12
<alkisg>
Do you have any at <= 2.0 GHz, or <= 512 ram?
18:12
<kidar>
no hard drives on most. some are dual core
18:13
<BuddyButterfly>
Run everything with your server, the 20 clients and the 12 clients. for each a seaparate ltsp-pnp vm.
18:13
<kidar>
no i dont think so 1 gig min ram and 3.2 i think
18:13
<alkisg>
..or a single ltsp-pnp installation that runs everything :)
18:13
No need to complicate things without specific reason...
18:13
<BuddyButterfly>
then put the 20 and 12 in separate vlans...
18:14
then 1 VM with pfsense in transparent bridge mode, so you can easily control everything....
18:15
<kidar>
if i am going to run only 1 server than why do i need to install vm
18:15
<BuddyButterfly>
and then you need a router with a dhcp server and a dns server. a good router or you build it with linux ;-)
18:15
<kidar>
so must i reload mate i386 or leave the mate 64
18:15
<BuddyButterfly>
vm: to be flexible with more different systems and to install more other VMs, like the firewall vm for pfsense.
18:16
<alkisg>
If you want to go with a single ltsp-pnp installation that serves all clients, reinstall with i386
18:17
<BuddyButterfly>
but I would definitely separate a "internet cafee" from the others with vlan....
18:17
<alkisg>
If you want to use 2 servers, then you can install i386 on that one
18:17
(or a vm as the second server)
18:17
I imagine that the internet cafe won't have ssh access to the ltsp server anyway
18:18
So there's no need to put it to a vlan, it can be a physical second nic on the server
18:18
<kidar>
my server already has to nics
18:18
<alkisg>
The client would have "guest accounts" with no ssh
18:18
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: yeah, vlans are much more flexible, if you have the right layer3 switch ;-)
18:19
<alkisg>
Sure. Or you can just use 2 switches and 2 nics, and be really really fool-proof :
18:19
<BuddyButterfly>
:-)
18:19* alkisg lines simple things because it's easier for the teachers in schools to maintain them
18:19
<alkisg>
*liukes
18:19
\*likes, maybe
18:19
<BuddyButterfly>
yes
18:19
<alkisg>
Damn double vnc
18:20
<vlt>
Hi! Can I make sure somehow that, if I have several SCREEN_X lines in lts.conf, one of them will always be shown first after booting?
18:20
<alkisg>
SCREEN_DEFAULT=08
18:20
<BuddyButterfly>
the nice thing with pfsense in transparent bridge is that I can use a central dhcp and dns, means I have the same lan but still can control access for all VMs...
18:20
<vlt>
alkisg: Thanks!
18:20
<alkisg>
If you setup the second nic to 192.168.67.1, then the ltsp server automatically is dhcp and dns server there
18:21
For filtering, I use squid, but pfsense is fine too
18:22
<BuddyButterfly>
first thing for me always is: VMserver with pfsense and total block to outside. then opening what is needed.
18:22
<kidar>
how is endian
18:22
<alkisg>
What endian?
18:22
<BuddyButterfly>
Inter VM traffic is controlled in VM server with virtual networks (openvswitch)
18:22
or xen stuff whatever you like.
18:22
<kidar>
endian is also a linux firewall software
18:23
<alkisg>
BuddyButterfly: when I go to setup a computer lab in a school, I finish in 1 hour. For everything, including the OS installation. I would need days to setup what you describe :
18:24
<kidar>
tell me how / what you do in hour. i like this
18:24
<alkisg>
If a setup has a dedicated sysadmin who like to play with stuff, then it's fine!
18:24
!ltsp-pnp
18:24
<ltsp>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
18:24
<alkisg>
That's basically the essence of what I do
18:24
Although we have a more specialized setup with greek software etc as well,
18:25
so I also run `apt-get install high-school` from our own repository somewhere along the way
18:25
<kidar>
so you install mate then ltsp-pnp, connect the pcs and done
18:25
<BuddyButterfly>
kidar: yes, that is the plan.
18:25
<alkisg>
And I run `sch-scripts` to create 200-300 users for the students
18:26
And name the PCs like pc01, pc02 etc, fix resolution, share printers or whatever else they need
18:26
<BuddyButterfly>
kidar: you know the shortest IT joke?
18:26
We'll have it soon......
18:26
<alkisg>
(tm)
18:27
<kidar>
:)
18:27
<vlt>
alkisg: SCREEN_DEFAULT works great. Thank you (again)!
18:27
<alkisg>
np
18:28
<kidar>
do you have a step by step guide or installation you follow. i have the server. waiting for the fat clients. they will arrive only in middle of march. network is already done.
18:29
<alkisg>
Yes but unfortunately it's in greek, of no use to you :)
18:29
<kidar>
what printer would you suggest to use in my enviroment
18:29
<alkisg>
The short english version I wrote in ltsp-pnp
18:29
Anything from hp is usually completely plug-n-play
18:29
<kidar>
will try and get it translatted into english
18:29
<alkisg>
In general, anything that works with linux...
18:29
http://ts.sch.gr/wiki/Linux/LTSP
18:29adrianor1 is now known as adrianorg
18:30
<alkisg>
We have the specs and the benefits and the 7 installation steps and all the programs documented there
18:30
<kidar>
what works good without any headache
18:31
<alkisg>
I didn't have any problems with any printer that supports linux, so I can't recommend anything specific
18:31
<BuddyButterfly>
I knew, Greeks are geeks....
18:31
<kidar>
what do you mostly use
18:31
<BuddyButterfly>
kidar: HP.
18:31
kidar: cause of hplip....
18:32
<alkisg>
+1
18:32
<BuddyButterfly>
just do sudo apt-get install hplip
18:32
<alkisg>
It's preinstalled
18:32
<kidar>
me to any particular model.
18:32
<BuddyButterfly>
sudo apt-get install hplib
18:32
sry
18:32
no, it really is hplip....
18:32
lip like liprary, lol
18:36
<kidar>
okay thanks to the two of you. i am busy reading the installation notes on your site alkisg. guess creating one account per computer is the best for starters.
18:38
<BuddyButterfly>
good luck! you will enjoy later....
18:38
<kidar>
thx and nite
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18:43
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: strange. I disabled dnsmasq but there still is a process started somehow.
18:44
<alkisg>
If you didn't follow all the ltsp-pnp steps, it's possibly the ubuntu local resolver, based on dnsmasq, which runs on all desktop ubuntu installations
18:44
The ltsp-pnp page has steps to remove that
18:44
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: it was systemd....
18:45
<alkisg>
systemd what? didn't you say dnsmasq?
18:45
<BuddyButterfly>
still have to get used to it.... disabled it in /etc/default/dnsmasq....
18:45
but systemd service still was active.
18:46
<alkisg>
Btw, why have dnsmasq disabled instead of uninstalled?
18:46
And, how will you serve tftp?
18:47
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: we already had this, do you remember? I have tftpd-hpa for that. It already was disabled in dnsmasq config.
18:48
now, cross fingers... enabled boot on my central dhcp.....
18:48
<alkisg>
OK, sorry, I remember the cases but I keep forgetting to match name with case :
18:48
So just uninstall dnsmasq then
18:52
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: yep, works! Cool. Now I have a clean ltsp-pnp in a mixed environment with a central dhcp and dns server.
18:52
no easy to install other VMs with other ltsp-pnp systems.... ;-)
18:52
no -> now...
18:55
alkisg: wah, shitty dependencies. purging dnsmasq installs dhcp-server and vice versa. I will go with letting it be installed but disabled.
19:05
<alkisg>
BuddyButterfly: your setup needs 'ltsp-server' installed, not 'ltsp-server-standalone'
19:06
So, sudo apt install ltsp-server; sudo apt purge --auto-remove ltsp-server-standalone dnsmasq
19:06
The first one marks ltsp-server as "manually installed"
19:08
<BuddyButterfly>
alkisg: ah, cool....
19:08
will do....
19:10
alkisg: yep, worked!
19:35
alkisg: tnx again. I am happy now with my mixed env installation! Works great without dnsmasq.
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