IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 18 October 2012   (all times are UTC)

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04:53
<ltspuser_11>
hi to every one
05:29
<work_alkisg>
Good morning
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08:27
<markit>
hi alkisg ... I've not heard anything anymore about you, ltsp andn KDE ... :)
08:40
<alkisg>
Hi markit, I was waiting to find you online as there have been problems :D
08:40
When we were talking the other day and I was doing some benchmarks, I didn't realize that sshfs failed and /home was actually local to the client
08:40
So the 150mb of traffic was nbd traffic, not /home related traffic
08:41
KDE somehow managed to create stuff inside /home/username *locally*, bypassing even the sshfs mount, so on the next login ltsp refused to use sshfs and assumed a local home
08:42
So anyway disabling nepomuk made that go away, and the next benchmarks were valid, but disappointing:
08:42
150 mb of nbd traffic + 450 mb of /home traffic
08:42
That's with the cache working properly, but I didn't switch to sqlite
08:43
So I'd say that KDE doesn't really work with networked /home, they need to look into this
08:48
<markit>
alkisg: I'm at work now, hope to find you after dinner and read carefully what you said here
08:48
:)
08:51
urgh... I think we will nave solve, there is the need of knowledge about how ltsp work, that kde devs don't have
08:51
<alkisg>
markit: no
08:51
Just tell them to use NFS home
08:51
Nothing related to ltsp
08:51
Or even local home
08:52
<markit>
"local home"?
08:52
<alkisg>
Drop local cache and measure that it needs 700mb for just login
08:52
Yes, any normal kde installation
08:52
KDE needs to read 700mb from the disk to login
08:52
As simple as that
08:52
<markit>
how do you measure it?
08:52
<alkisg>
drop existing caches and run iotop or something
08:52
<markit>
(because my "local" test were far less)
08:52
<alkisg>
echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches etc
08:53
<markit>
ah, GNU/Linux caches and not /var/tmp/kdecache you mean?
08:53
<alkisg>
Yes
08:53
<markit>
and iftop gives you the total I/O, while iotop only the "instant" one
08:53
<alkisg>
Some other disk utility then
08:54
<markit>
ok, I will google for that
08:54
<alkisg>
Or do it from an nbd disk, or from a virtualbox disk, or whatever
08:54
<markit>
:)
08:54
thanks a lot
08:54
<alkisg>
np
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09:20
<prem_>
hi all
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09:21
<prem_>
does a ltsp image setup in amd64 system will work?
09:23
i have a working amd64 debian image + i386 ltsp server combination
09:23
am able to login and see the desktop.,but amd64 debian image + amd64 ltsp server did not show me any desktop
09:24
it accepts the login username and password ., but shows only a rotating cursor
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09:37
<Hyperbyte>
prem_, why do you have an i386 server? Does your server not support amd64?
09:37
<prem_>
Hyperbyte, my host machine is amd64 server only
09:38
on that i tried setting up amd64 ltsp server ., but its not login inside
09:38
but setting up i386 ltsp client , successfully logs into the machine
09:39
<Hyperbyte>
I'm confused. You have one working setup, and one not working. Let's forget about the working one, and focus on the one that isn't.
09:40
What distro/version/architecture is installed on the server machine? And what architecture did you specify when building the LTSP image?
09:40
<prem_>
Hyperbyte, i have debian squeeze amd64 installed and setup "ltsp-build-client --arch i386" and is working
09:41
debian squeeze amd64 installed and setup "ltsp-build-client --arch amd64" is not working
09:41
am getting the ldm screen , its accepting the login crediantials., but not displaying the screen
09:41
<Hyperbyte>
Are all your clients amd64's too?
09:42
<prem_>
Hyperbyte, the hardware ?
09:43
<Hyperbyte>
Yes? Do all your clients have 64-bit processors?
09:43
<prem_>
Hyperbyte, no
09:43
i dont think so Hyperbyte
09:43
does that matter
09:43
i thought amd64 will work on i386 processor also
09:44
isnt it Hyperbyte
09:51
<Hyperbyte>
No, you cannot run 64-bit software on a 32-bit processor.
09:51
You can run 32-bit software on a 64-bit processor, but not vice-versa.
09:52
<prem_>
Hyperbyte, but i have installed debian i386 OS on a amd processor
09:52
and was working
09:52
<Hyperbyte>
However, if your clients are not 64-bit, you shouldn't even be able to load a 64-bit kernel. The fact that it comes to a login prompt, means either your image isn't properly 64-bit, or the clients are in fact 64-bit.
09:52
<prem_>
till now i have not faced any such issue
09:52
<Hyperbyte>
prem_, like I said - you can run a 32-bit OS on a 64-bit kernel, but not vice-versa.
09:53
You cannot run a 64-bit kernel on a 32-bit processor.
09:53
So if you use: ltsp-build-client --arch amd64 then ALL your clients *MUST* support 64-bit
09:54
If that's the case, then that's okay. I'm just making sure you know the consequences of using --arch amd64.
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09:56
<prem_>
Hyperbyte, am bit confused now..but am getting till ldm screen
09:57
<Hyperbyte>
prem_, why are you confused?
09:58
<prem_>
because i have installed and worked amd64 images in the same (i386 hardware ) machine
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09:58
<prem_>
but what are you saying.,may be that is a requirement for ltsp
10:01
<Hyperbyte>
prem_, looks more like it's a Debian thing
10:01
<prem_>
well then if this is the case.,will there be any compatibiity issue if i setup a i386 ltsp client on a amd64 OS
10:02
<Hyperbyte>
64-bit PC (amd64) First officially released with Debian 4.0. Port to the 64 bit AMD64 processors. The goal is to support both 32bit- and 64bit-userland on this architecture.
10:02
<prem_>
is there any known issues going for a cross arch like this
10:02
<Hyperbyte>
prem_, no, there will not be. LTSP uses network protocols to communicate between clients and servers. It does not have anything to do with processor architecture.
10:02
There are people who run 64-bit LTSP servers, powering ARM clients.
10:03
<prem_>
good to hear then
10:03
i read somewhere that its always to better to go for same architecutre for the host and the ltsp client
10:03
<Hyperbyte>
I myself run an i686 client image with a 64-bit server
10:04
prem_, I don't know about that. I think that's bullshit.
10:04
If you're using ltsp-pnp you -have- to use the same architecture on the server as you would want to use on the clients. But with regular LTSP you can use any client architecture you want.
10:04
<prem_>
Hyperbyte, okey then i will better stick with my working amd64+i386 combination
10:05
am using regulat ltsp setup only
10:05
<Hyperbyte>
I think it would be much better to run a kernel native to your processor. I don't know how Debian amd64 performs with a 32-bit processor, but since it doesn't matter what your clients are.
10:06
I'd just pick the one that's suited for your CPU architecture, which is 32-bit in your case.
10:06
But, I'm no Debian expert. :) This whole running amd64 kernel on a 32-bit CPU is fairly new to me. :)
10:06
<prem_>
yeah Hyperbyte my server hardware is ofcourse 64 bit, whereas my clients are 32 only in hardware
10:07
<Hyperbyte>
Same here.
10:07
Using thin clients. :)
10:08
Clients boot 32-bit image, which logs in to server. All applications on the client are 32-bit, on the server 64-bit. LTSP just uses remote X (X11Forwarding) which is architecture-independant...
10:09
<prem_>
but Hyperbyte the surprising fact is that in i386 booted ltsp image , when i check "dpkg-architecture" it shows "amd54"
10:10
and even "uname -r" shows amd64 kernel which i installed in server
10:11
<Hyperbyte>
prem_, how are you checking this? From a regular terminal?
10:11
And what's the hostname displayed in the 'uname -r'? I bet it's your servers'. :-)
10:12
<prem_>
Hyperbyte, yes you are rite
10:12
its server's only
10:12
<Hyperbyte>
See, that's the beauty of LTSP. Once you log in, it starts -all- programs, including your terminal (your entire desktop in fact) on the LTSP server
10:12
So when you ask for the architecture, you get the architecture of the server.
10:12
Try this one:
10:12
!localxterm
10:12
<ltsp>
localxterm: Any applications that you launch on a thin client actually runs on the server, not on the client itself. If you want to open a program on the client locally, you can type 'ltsp-localapps <program>' in a run dialog or in a terminal. For example, 'ltsp-localapps xterm' to open a terminal running on the client.
10:14
<prem_>
yeah i did check that too Hyperbyte ., but since increasing the client image size needs more ram in the client side, i didnt install any extra program in client
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10:47
<Hyperbyte>
prem_, xterm is in there by default.
10:47
Also
10:48
Increasing client image size does nothing to the RAM in the client, the image is provided over network.
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14:01
<sbalneav>
Morning all!
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14:16
<vector>
morning!
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15:14
<highvoltage>
morning scotty
15:17
<sbalneav>
Morning! Gettin' close to release, eh?
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15:18
<sbalneav>
I'm continuing to work on the pam stuff. Once you and Stephane are done with copenhagen, we'll start doing some integration stuff.
15:22
<highvoltage>
yep, *very* close :)
15:22
nice
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18:39
<ltspuser_67>
hi,
18:39
anybody here ?
18:43
<vagrantc>
!ask
18:43
<ltsp>
ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
18:43
<vagrantc>
!question
18:43
<ltsp>
question: if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
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18:50
<sbalneav>
ltspuser_67: Yup, people are here
18:50
vagrantc: hey ho
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19:05* vagrantc waves to sbalneav
19:05
<gvy>
/nick waves
19:05
...to both :)
19:06
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: y'all tear it up at the hackfest?
19:06
is everything i know about LTSP obsolete yet?
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19:20
<ltspuser_67>
I have deploy ltsp on a Ubuntu server 12.04, in a VM on a ESXi. I have 1 pxe boot client which works very well. The client has a Radeon video card. Can I use it to improve x rendering ?
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19:28
<||cw>
ltspuser_67: some things will use it, most can't. if the client is that powerful, thick clients might make more sense for you
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19:34
<ltspuser_67>
the client is my PC, now diskless. During a session, lscpi gives me "00:0f.0 VGA compatible controller: VMware SVGA II Adapter" and lsmod shows me "vmwgfx" module loaded.
19:38
<vagrantc>
that's because you're logged into the server, not the thin client.
19:38
so you're seeing the server's hardware.
19:38
try:
19:38
ltsp-localapps xterm
19:38
and run your commands from the xterm that pops up.
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19:45
<ltspuser_67>
Tx a lot <vagrantc>: you have connected my neurons ! radeon module is correctly mounted and i understand how it works now.
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19:53
<ltspuser_67>
the rendering is poor: for example, youtube video refresh is max 3-4 fps, how can i improve this ?
19:56
<alkisg>
!directx
19:56
<ltsp>
directx: If you want to turn off encryption to the workstation, which will speed up performance at the cost of security, you need to specify LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file. Type !docs in IRC to get a link to the current documentation
19:56
<alkisg>
!flash
19:56
<ltsp>
flash: Yes, flash sucks. Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like https://addons.mozilla.org/el/firefox/addon/161869/ (per user installation, gecko-mediaplayer is also needed).
20:00
<ltspuser_67>
!docs
20:00
<ltsp>
docs: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
20:01
<ltspuser_67>
Ok, many thanks, see ya !
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20:31
<vagrantc>
alkisg: i think you introduced some of this code: http://bugs.debian.org/690618 http://bugs.debian.org/690638 ?
20:32
alkisg: just a few bashisms....
20:34
<alkisg>
vagrantc: thanks I think both of those are mine, should switch to printf probably...
20:35
<vagrantc>
alkisg: also curious about your thoughts on: http://bugs.debian.org/689668
20:35
stgraber: yours too ^^
20:36
<alkisg>
Errr I think I'd rather rewrite the configuration parts than diving into them :P :D
20:36
It sounds reasonable though to read the cache first, and lts.conf later
20:37
<vagrantc>
it did torment my brain just glancing at all that
20:37
<stgraber>
in my head SERVER is whatever dhcp/pxelinux gives you and you shouldn't assume it's overridable by lts.conf, then we have LDM_SERVER (well *_SERVER) for the actual login servers
20:37
<vagrantc>
i wasn't sure if there was some reason to read the cache after the lts.conf and ltsp-cluster configuration stuff
20:37
<stgraber>
and those indeed default to whatever SERVER is set to
20:38
<vagrantc>
stgraber: yeah, i did mention that, though it is a change in behavior
20:38
you used to be able to force SERVER in lts.conf
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20:38
<vagrantc>
and it seems silly to have to configure all the various *_SERVER variables just because you have a different root server
20:39
we could implement DEFAULT_SERVER
20:39* alkisg will implement booting fat clients from C:\LTSP\i386.img, so he'll need SERVER there as well
20:39
<alkisg>
(for low bandwidth cases)
20:40
<vagrantc>
alkisg: from the local disk?
20:40
<alkisg>
Yeah, for wireless or for 100mbps lans
20:40
Grub can boot a kernel directly from the squashfs image
20:40
<vagrantc>
wow
20:40
<alkisg>
So, win32-loader.exe + a small script to download the img + add the entry, pretty easy
20:40
<stgraber>
re-ordering the code a bit would likely work, though we need to make sure we don't regress other parts, for example we don't want someone setting SERVER and then having ldm's nbd update check go poke at SERVER instead of the nbd server
20:40
<vagrantc>
grub is really getting impressive
20:40
<alkisg>
+ a couple of lines in the initramfs
20:41
<vagrantc>
rewriting the code entirely could also work :)
20:41* alkisg really wants to do that, for wheezy+1 and ubuntu 14.04
20:42
<alkisg>
(the rewriting part)
20:42
<vagrantc>
14.04? you're really planning ahead
20:42
<alkisg>
I've been installing LTSP in a school per day for the last weeks :D
20:42
So I have to plan ahead, no time to implement now !
20:42
<vagrantc>
heh
20:43* vagrantc plans ahead how to eat lunch in the coming minutes
20:43
<vagrantc>
alkisg: oh, i know you have your own backports and whatnot, but just uploaded LTSP related backports to backports.debian.org
20:44
alkisg: although they'll take an arbitrary amount of time before they get accepted
20:44
<alkisg>
vagrantc: got anything working with previous nbd versions? Or did you backport nbd?
20:44
<||cw>
there's only 2 "testing" more releases before 14.04, so it's not that far
20:46* alkisg also hopes Gnome will still be usable then.... otherwise ...it's a nice thing vagrantc is already using LXDE with LTSP :)
20:47
<muppis>
:D
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21:33
<ltspuser_40>
Hello
21:33
Is anyone on here that could answer a couple of questions I have regarding LTSP
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21:45
<muppis>
Sure thing. Just... Oh, gone.
22:11
<||cw>
where ever these people are coming from... maybe the "dont' ask to ask" blurb needs to be there...
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22:58
<gvy>
+1
23:09
<vagrantc>
||cw: good idea
23:09
i'm fairly certain they're coming from the new website
23:10
yeah, it doesn't say much of anything about it
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