IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 13 October 2010   (all times are UTC)

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01:50
<jimjimovich>
morning everyone
01:51
how can i change the language for the ldm login screen?
01:52
<Appiah>
LDM_LANGUAGE in lts.conf
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01:54
<jimjimovich>
Appiah: Thanks, somehow I overlooked that in the docs
01:57
um, that set the default language for the gnome session, but didn't change the UI on the login screen
01:58
<alkisg>
jimjimovich: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg-reconfigure console-setup
01:58
and ltsp-update-image afterwards
02:02
<jimjimovich>
alkisg: what i really want is for just the text for login screen to be in Russian without changing the default login language
02:02
<alkisg>
So, login in russian and session in english?
02:02
<jimjimovich>
dession default in English
02:02
<alkisg>
Then, put russian in the command that I told you before and put english in LDM_LANGUAGE - I think that'll work
02:03
<jimjimovich>
okay, will try!
02:07
alkisg: I still get English on the login screen.
02:07
<alkisg>
jimjimovich: did you update the image?
02:07
<jimjimovich>
yeah
02:08
<alkisg>
Uh sorry that's for the keyboard layout, the default chroot locale is in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/default/locale
02:09
<jimjimovich>
okay, will try!
02:12
alkisg: that works, thanks!
02:13
only one problem, the translation for "username" is (as often happens) too long for the space allowed in the layout for the longin screen. How can I edit the layout of the login screen?
02:13
<alkisg>
Here's a more comprehensive answer from the ML, from vagrantc: "it's a little confusing, but LDM_LANGUAGE sets the locale for the logged in session, not for LDM itself."
02:13
"if you want it to use a different language for LDM's user interface, add to lts.conf:
02:13
LANG=en_US "
02:14
<jimjimovich>
cool. that's exactly what I did and it worked great.
02:18
I found instructions for modifying the images in the ldm theme, but can anyone tell me where the layout files are for it? I'd like to move things around a little bit
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02:23
<gnunux>
hi
02:25
<alkisg>
jimjimovich: I think it's in greeter.c, so to change the layout you'd need to compile it
02:25
You can also change the translation if it's easier to you
02:25
<jimjimovich>
alkisg: yeah, digging through the source code now.
02:26
i have the translation here from the source code, can i just change it and drop it into some directory or does that also require recompiling?
02:28
<alkisg>
It requires "compiling" into .mo which is very easy
02:28
E.g. if you open it with poedit, it does it automatically
02:29
or, just run: msgfmt -cv -o output.mo input.po
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02:29
<jimjimovich>
alkisg: I can tell you've been doing this for a while :)
02:29
<alkisg>
:)
02:30
<jimjimovich>
I feel like I've learned more about Ubuntu in the last 2 weeks of setting up this system than in the last few years.
02:32
<muppis>
jimjimovich, same to me. :)
02:32
<jimjimovich>
muppis: it's a pretty great feeling, to learn so much every day at work :)
02:34
<muppis>
Altought, my thin just hanged when I changed lts.conf. Hopefully its typo.
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02:45
<muppis>
Funny. If I put LANG in lts.conf, LDM changes to English. Without any it's in Finnish (as it should be).
02:46
<alkisg>
Yup, that's the correct (but not intuitive) behaviour
02:47
<jimjimovich>
alkisg: thanks for the tip on poedit. I edited the translation (and even though it's kind wrong now) it fits.
02:47
<alkisg>
muppis: erm, LANG=what in lts.conf?
02:47
<muppis>
fi_FI
02:48
<alkisg>
Try fi_FL.UTF-8
02:48
see the exact name from your $LANG environment variable
02:49
Even a character wrong and it's considered invalid, so LANG=C is used instead
02:49
<muppis>
Frustating.. libvirtd keeps dying.
02:49
<jimjimovich>
there is a LANG setting in lts.conf? I didn't see that in the documentation
02:49
<alkisg>
No, it's kind of a hack to set environment variables for ldm
02:49
So anything you set in lts.conf is an env var for ldm
02:50
<jimjimovich>
so you can just set random env variables? Like MYVAR=foo?
02:51
<muppis>
alkisg, I think it still doesn't fix that partial translation for login screen. Anything else is in Finnish, but Preferences still sits there in corner.
02:52
<jimjimovich>
muppis: did you try changing the local in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/default/locale ? That worked for me
02:53
<alkisg>
muppis: ah, for preferences you need to install your gnome locale files to the chroot
02:53
It's a gnome button. Let me get you the exact package name...
02:53
<muppis>
alkisg, quite annoying..
02:53
<jimjimovich>
yes, same is true if you want to have local apps in your language (like Firefox)
02:53
<alkisg>
Right
02:55
The preferences button comes from /usr/share/locale-langpack/"$LANG_DIR"/LC_MESSAGES/gtk20.mo
02:55
<jimjimovich>
nice, now I have /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/default/locale set to Russian, and can add LANG=en_EN.UTF-8 for terminals that need to be in English :)
02:55
<alkisg>
muppis: language-pack-gnome-fi-base
02:56
(or just copy that file)
02:57
<jimjimovich>
I'd recommend installing language-pack-gnome-fi-base in chroot as it will probably save you from other problems down the road
02:57
<muppis>
How about Verifyin password -text, same file?
02:57
<alkisg>
No, that's ssh
02:57
But it's hardcoded to english from ldm
02:57
<muppis>
Ok.
02:58
<alkisg>
Hmmm wait let me look...
02:58
<jimjimovich>
actually, it's in the po file for ldm
02:58
I'm looking at the Russian po and it's in there, but it's missing from Finnish
02:58
<alkisg>
^^^ right
02:59
<muppis>
Hey, thanks! ;)
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02:59
<alkisg>
OK, time for poedit for all :P
03:00
<jimjimovich>
you can edit the fi.po file in poedit, save it then copy fi.mo to /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/locale/fi/LC_MESSAGES/ldm.mo
03:00
<muppis>
Looks like I have to set up my own PPA for fixes..
03:01
alkisg, have you yet tested Meerkat for LTSP?
03:02
<alkisg>
muppis: I only booted it in a vbox, I'll stick to LTS=>LTS for greek schools
03:02
<jimjimovich>
I have, and ended up ditching it quickly. There were a lot of bugs, especially with local apps
03:02
<alkisg>
It takes a couple of months to stabilize ubuntu installations unfortunately, so a 6 month release cycle is too often for us
03:04
<muppis>
jimjimovich, shame.. I'm setting up LTSP for HTPC at my home and for DVB-T -bugfixes might be forced to upgrade to Meerkat.
03:04
If I don't get inspiration to upgrade kernel in Lucid.
03:04
Hey... Installing language pack to chroot changed both texts.
03:04
<jimjimovich>
muppis: if it's something you're doing at home, you might want to try it
03:06
Maverick ltsp works, it's just that doing much beyond the basics became very difficult as a lot of the instructions i found online did not work (for example, Flash in local Firefox)
03:06
<muppis>
jimjimovich, my lack of inspiration kicks in when there is possibility for hours fight for stability.
03:07
What I need to work locally is nvidia drivers and XBMC..
03:07
<jimjimovich>
by the way, since I've been working more with LTSP recently, I keep imagining our flat with little touch screens all over running as ltsp clients :)
03:08
<muppis>
:)
03:08
<jimjimovich>
XBMC on a thin client ... hmmm. now you're just giving me ideas :)
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03:09
<muppis>
I got VDR and NAS already in network so there is no need for local HDD, so why it keep just for system..
03:09
<jimjimovich>
Can you buy small sized touch screens that work with Ubuntu in Finland? If so, I might have to make a trip over there
03:09
<muppis>
Depends what is definition of small sized?
03:09
<jimjimovich>
like 7-10 inch
03:10
well, less than 19 inch :)
03:10
<elias_a>
jimjimovich: What is the use case and how many?
03:12
<jimjimovich>
Use case ... to run LTSP or just Ubuntu. How many? It's more of a dream, really. Not sure
03:13
<muppis>
03:14
<elias_a>
jimjimovich: OK. Just being curious. Just thought that I found some second hand stuff for similar purposes and the magic word seems to be USB.
03:15
<jimjimovich>
elias_a: like those USB monitor extender things?
03:15
<elias_a>
If the control signal (=mouse) is transmitted through USB there should not be big problems
03:15
<muppis>
Yes, adding touchsupport any regular screen is cheaper than buying directly touchscreen..
03:15
At here in Finland.
03:16
<jimjimovich>
muppis: thanks for the info. I'll have to look into that idea too.
03:16
what would be really cool is ltsp running on any of the hardware for all these upcoming tablets that people are making
03:17
<alkisg>
The new vbox offers a tablet mouse mode, so I have mouse integration for vbox ltsp clients out of the box :)
03:17
<muppis>
I got also a plan for laptops. Having minimal installation to get X and wlan working, then firing kvm with vnc for ltsp client.
03:18
<jimjimovich>
I'd love to have a terminal stuck to my refrigerator :)
03:18
<alkisg>
vnc? too slow...
03:18
<muppis>
alkisg, it's local.
03:18
<alkisg>
Sure, it's even slow for gigabit
03:18
<jimjimovich>
have you tried neatx?
03:18
<alkisg>
E.g. neatx over adsl is faster than vnc on gigabit
03:19
<jimjimovich>
I got it working here and it's super fast
03:19
<muppis>
Probably vnc not even needed, when running only one app.
03:20
<sweetpi>
I got wireless working for thin client a while ago. never got around to figuring out how to handle bad packet loss without deadlocks
03:20
<jimjimovich>
alkisg: what's this about vbox (virtualbox?) clients?
03:20
sweetpi: yeah, was just thinking about wifi probably being a pretty big issue for ltsp
03:21
<alkisg>
jimjimovich: http://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch03.html ==> search for "Enable absolute pointing device"
03:21
<jimjimovich>
alkisg: so you're booting off of ltsp in virtualbox? I need this!
03:22
<alkisg>
Sure, and I also have 1280x720 without adding vbox guest additions, by specifying an additional vesa mode...
03:22
<muppis>
jimjimovich, my testing enviroment is running in virt-manager/libvirt/kvm
03:23
<feinbein_fred>
alkisg: sorry to interupt, but how did you manage higher resolutions without guest addistions?
03:23
<jimjimovich>
okay, i remember trying this virtual machine ltsp client several years ago without luck.
03:25
<alkisg>
feinbein_fred: http://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch09.html#id485343
03:25
feinbein_fred: You don't need the "vga=xxx" kernel parameter that it mentions, it's autodetected
03:26
jimjimovich: it "just works" in vbox...
03:26
<feinbein_fred>
thanks a lot, I'll try that... Just have to reboot to my desktop...
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03:27
<jimjimovich>
alkisg: that's what i get for not trying things for like 4 years ;)
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03:28
<jimjimovich>
anyone know of a way to boot a vm client if you're located outside of the network where the ltsp server is (but can ssh into the server)?
03:31
<muppis>
SSH Tunneling should help.
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03:33
<jimjimovich>
muppis: can you proxy dhcp over ssh?
03:35
<muppis>
jimjimovich, I just thought that could be problem..
03:37
<jimjimovich>
wow, this really does just work out of the box in vbox!
03:40
<sweetpi>
jimjimovich: I think doing what you want would require either magic hackery or at least kernel and initrd for the thin client(to get local network access) and then a ssh tunnel(on the vm host) for nbd
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03:42
<jimjimovich>
sweetpi: neatx sounds better than "magic hackery" ;)
03:42
<sweetpi>
true :)
03:43
<alkisg_studying>
jimjimovich: can you open the tftp port?
03:43
If you can, you can use gpxe, even over wan...
03:43
Or, if you have apache, you can publish the kernel with http
03:44
No dhcp is needed
03:44
<jimjimovich>
alkisg_studying: I don't see why I couldn't open the port (it's still within our main network)
03:44
<sweetpi>
how would it access the nbd server though?
03:45
<alkisg_studying>
Right, that too ^^ :)
03:45
He could copy the image locally, but it would require initscript changes
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03:46
<jimjimovich>
i was thinking more along the lines of making Virtualbox to "be" in the other network via something like a vpn
03:47
<alkisg_studying>
A, vbox client? Then sure, either ssh port forwarding or vpn
03:47
<jimjimovich>
alkisg_studying: how can I make it so that vbox isn't stuck in 800x600 mode?
03:47
<feinbein_fred>
alkisg_studying:vbox not working for me, added custom video modes - no luck!
03:47
<alkisg_studying>
See the link I pasted above for feinbein_fred
03:47alkisg_studying is now known as alkisg
03:47
<alkisg>
feinbein_fred: distro/version?
03:48
<elias_a>
muppis: I actually did not talk about an add-on device. There are touchscreens that have USB in any case.
03:48
<feinbein_fred>
meerkat some server, lucid64bit for vbox 3.2.8
03:49
<alkisg>
feinbein_fred: it should be working, can you post your vbox client .xml settings file?
03:49
<muppis>
elias_a, yes it is, but they costs a lot.
03:50
<alkisg>
feinbein_fred: e.g. mine contains a line like this: <ExtraDataItem name="CustomVideoMode1" value="1272x700x16"/>
03:51
<feinbein_fred>
http://pastebin.com/LGE4X0cV
03:52
<elias_a>
muppis: If you're interested I am going to check out 2nd hand devices like that next Fri @ Tampere. Priceclass 300€.
03:52
<muppis>
elias_a, any specs?
03:56
<jimjimovich>
alkisg: feinbein_fred: yeah, it's not working for me either with <ExtraDataItem name="CustomVideoMode1" value="1400x900x16"/>
03:57
<elias_a>
muppis: Not yet. Should be quality stuff. It is the voting booth displays from Kauniainen where the electronic voting was tested in the election.
03:58
<muppis>
elias_a, might be usable.
04:01
<alkisg>
jimjimovich, feinbein_fred: this one works fine for me: http://pastebin.com/JNmyXGT2
04:01
More in a while, doing something first...
04:01
<feinbein_fred>
jimjimovich: I am not sure, I have nvida-driver installed in the chroot, maybe thats the reason?
04:04
<jimjimovich>
feinbein_fred: I don't have them installed. I think it has something to do with the second part of the instructions ( vga = 0x200 | 0x160 ) how would you do that?
04:05
<feinbein_fred>
jimjimovich: good question, how do you add a kernel-parameter for a specific thinclient? Googling....
04:06
<alkisg>
You can put them in pxelinux.cfg/mac-address, but there's no need, gimme a few minutes to finish what I'm doing and I'll test from scratch with a new client
04:07
<jimjimovich>
okay, thanks alkisg
04:17
<feinbein_fred>
alkisg: just trying with pxelinux.cfg/mac-address
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04:32
<feinbein_fred>
just building a new image w/o nvidiadrivers
04:35
<alkisg>
jimjimovich, feinbein_fred: I created a new vbox client, ran VBoxManage setextradata vesatest "CustomVideoMode1" "1272x720x16", set X_COLOR_DEPTH=16 in my lts.conf and it's working without doing anything else
04:35
If yours fails, maybe it's because the vesa logic prefers some other mode because it cannot detect the monitor timings
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04:36
<alkisg>
So, either increase X_HORZSYNC/X_VERTREFRESH, or paste the /var/log/Xorg.7.log from the client and your CustomVideoMode1 and X_COLOR_DEPTH...
04:37
(I see in xorg.log that it tries some other modes with lower horizsync rates and fails, and then decides to automatically increase horizsync and then chooses my mode)
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05:03
<feinbein_fred>
alkisg: unfortunately I haven't got more time, will try and see later. Thanks for your help so far.
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06:10
<jimjimovich>
doing pxelinux.cfg/01-mac-address and adding the line from the vbox site makes vbox boot at my custom resolution until it hits the login screen, then everything is back to 800x600
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06:23
<alkisg>
jimjimovich: don't add vga=xx it uses framebuffer then
06:23
See what I proposed above
06:24
<jimjimovich>
I tried changing the X_HORZSYNC/X_VERTREFRESH but got very strange results
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06:25
<jimjimovich>
I got the desktop running at 1440x900 but the window in virtualbox was cut off
06:40
<alkisg>
jimjimovich: If you put too great values there, you'd also need to set XRANDR_MODE_0 for that client
06:40
What resolution are you trying to accomplish? 1440x900?
06:41
<jimjimovich>
1440x900, also trying your 1272x720
06:44
<alkisg>
And X_COLOR_DEPTH?
06:45
(ok if you put X_HORZSYNC/X_VERTREFRESH then just setting XRANDR_MODE_0 should do it)
06:45
Don't bother with the rest...
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06:48
<jimjimovich>
alkisg: I'm getting close. How do I determine the proper X_HORZSYNC/X_VERTREFRESH rates?
06:48
<alkisg>
jimjimovich: there's no need, you can put arbitrary large ones and just set XRANDR_MODE_0
06:48
For 1024x768 X_HORZSYNC is about 88
06:48
For 1440 it should be around 100, but not sure for the exact value
06:49
Unfortunately the timing calculation tools don't work for this
06:50
So just put X_HORZSYNC=120, X_VERTREFRESH=50-90, and XRANDR_MODE_0=1440x900 ...
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06:53
<alkisg>
Ah, not sure if vesa supports xrandr, if not then X_MODE_0 is needed instead
06:53
<muppis>
Funny. As I wrote earlier, got Preferences -button untranslated before installed language pack. That was on my newly build testing enviroment. In production enviroment that package is already installed and buttontext is still untranslated.
06:54
<alkisg>
muppis: is the i386.img image updated?
06:54
<muppis>
alkisg, yes.
06:55
alkisg, Verifying password is translated..
06:55
<alkisg>
muppis: and the translation is the same version as in your test server?
06:56
<jimjimovich>
alkisg: got it working!
06:56
<alkisg>
**language pack version, I mean
06:56
<muppis>
alkisg, haven't check that, but both installations are lucid.
06:56
<alkisg>
Sounds like it should work then...
06:57
jimjimovich: what did you do?
06:59
muppis: compare this file to your test server's file: /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/locale/fi/LC_MESSAGES/gtk20.mo
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07:01
<muppis>
Packages are same versions, but production is i386 and testing amd64.
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07:03
<jimjimovich>
muppis: I did notice that the translation for verifying password was missing from the ldm fi.po file
07:04
<alkisg>
muppis: are the "Username" and "Password" fields translated?
07:04
<muppis>
alkisg, yes.
07:04
<alkisg>
jimjimovich: sorry X_HORZSYNC shouldn't be fixed for XRANDR_MODE_0 to work
07:04
<muppis>
jimjimovich, installing language-pack-fi-base to chroot did the trick.
07:04
<alkisg>
jimjimovich: so, X_HORZSYNC=30-120, X_VERTREFRESH=30-90, and then using XRANDR_MODE_0 gets you any resolution you want
07:05
<jimjimovich>
alkisg: http://pastebin.com/5uDPej9h
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07:08
<jimjimovich>
alkisg: feinbein_fred: This works http://pastebin.com/FfCGqW5H
07:09
alkisg: so I still need to add the custom video modes to vbox or everything can be done in lts.conf?
07:10
<alkisg>
jimjimovich: with X_HORZSYNC etc you can get all vesa modes, but if you want additional ones that vesa doesn't provide, then you need custom video modes
07:10
E.g. I wanted the vbox window to be smaller than my 1280x800 desktop to prevent it from hiding my panels
07:11
<jimjimovich>
super, looks like we figured this one out :)
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07:13
<alkisg>
jimjimovich: btw it looks like the vbox driver ignores any X_HORZSYNC values, so any range (not fixed value) would do
07:14
<jimjimovich>
very nice, now I got one more tool in the toolbox
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07:20
<jimjimovich>
alkisg: what client do you use to connect to neatx? The standard No Machine for Linux?
07:20
<alkisg>
Yup
07:21
<jimjimovich>
alkisg: do you ever have problems with it taking a very long time to authenticate?
07:21
<alkisg>
Yeah, it does
07:21
<jimjimovich>
I noticed that from the windows client, it authenticates almost instantly
07:22
i thought that was strange
07:22
<alkisg>
But it never authenticated quickly so I don't know.... ah really? Didn't try a windows client
07:22* alkisg tested with freenx & neatx as servers, and nomachine nx linux client
07:22
<jimjimovich>
I noticed it a while back when making a blog post about using neatx on EC2, if you connect with windows it works fast, if you connect with linux, it'll actually time out before it authenticates
07:24
<alkisg>
Did you file a bug report?
07:26
<jimjimovich>
at the time, yes (this was like 6 months ago) but maybe to the wrong place, and nobody followed up on it because Desktop Ubuntu on EC2 wasn't a priority
07:27
<alkisg>
The best place would be at the neatx-server project page on code.google.com
07:28
<jimjimovich>
I thought it might have something to do with ssh, because it also takes quite a while for ssh to prompt me for my password on all my ltsp servers
07:34
alkisg: looks like there are already a handful of bugs filed which would match my experience. maybe they already fixed them. will have to try again someday
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10:46
<CarlosP>
hello
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12:09
<EarlessPierre>
Hi, everyone
12:09
Does anyone here have an LTSP server that authenticates using Kerberos?
12:09
<elias_a>
EarlessPierre: We are listening. We got ears :)
12:10
EarlessPierre: What is the problem?
12:10
<EarlessPierre>
Users take about 3 minutes to log on, even the locally defined ones.
12:10
I checked the tcpdump, and it just seems to be sitting there doing nothing
12:10
No packets between the server and the client at all
12:11
I think it's timing out somewhere, but I can't think of what it could be
12:11
<elias_a>
Sorry - this is beyond my field of experience :(
12:12
<EarlessPierre>
Dang
12:12
Nobody seems to know what's wrong with it
12:14
<Gadi>
EarlessPierre: is there a delayed login when you simply ssh to the machine?
12:14
you may want to try: ssh -vvv user@server
12:14
and watch where it hangs
12:21
<EarlessPierre>
SSH works fine
12:21
No delay at all
12:21
Kerberos or local user
12:34
<Gadi>
EarlessPierre: check the user's ~/.xsession-errors
12:38
<EarlessPierre>
What should I be looking for?
12:39
<Gadi>
not sure exactly - timeouts?
12:40
<EarlessPierre>
evolution-alarm-notify-Message: Setting timeout for 41597 1286496000 1286454403
12:40
This is the only mention of timeouts
12:41
<Gadi>
alternatively, it may also be a dns issue
12:41
in that the server is trying to look up the client's hostname
12:41
try setting a shell on the client
12:41
and ssh to the server from a client shell
12:42
<EarlessPierre>
Ok, I'll try that
12:42
I tried SSHing from a liveCD, that worked fine
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12:53
<EarlessPierre>
SSHing work fine from both thick or thin client image, both the web-facing interface and the client subnet facing interface
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13:02
<EarlessPierre>
I also tried different desktop environments (XFCE, KDE, LXDE, xterm), but they all take about the same amount of time
13:12
<Gadi>
EarlessPierre: are you using LDM_DIRECTX?
13:13
if not, try enabling it and seeing if it is faster
13:13
<EarlessPierre>
How do I do that?
13:13
<Gadi>
it is an lts.conf parameter: LDM_DIRECTX=True
13:14
that will at least tell you if the ssh X proxy is the culprit
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13:35
<EarlessPierre>
Interestingly enough, now my fat client is stuck on the splash scree and my thin client refuses all passwords
13:36
I think someone else is trying to fix it too
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13:42
<EarlessPierre>
Hm, nope
13:42
This is certainly weird
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21:05
<map7>
I'm having problems using my new thin client (Intel D510MO) graphics card with Ubuntu 10.04. Can anyone help me setup a Xorg.conf to suit this type of GPU? It says it's using the i915 kernel module.
21:06
The main problem is that I cannot use the high resolution as it cannot detect my monitor
21:06
I would like to use 1920x1080
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