IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 18 September 2007   (all times are UTC)

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07:21
<jammcq>
g'morning
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07:34
<ogra>
hey jammcq
07:34
<jammcq>
hey ogra
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07:50
<cliebow_>
67
07:52
<osl>
hello all, I have a problem in nfs while trying to boot up a thin client, message: mounting mxboot:/opt/xtermroot on /newroot faild
07:55
<jammcq>
osl: that doesn't sound like LTSP
07:56
<osl>
hmm
07:56
do u think we should look in nfs configuration ?
07:57
<cliebow_>
that sounds like jammcq!!!!!!!!
07:57
<jammcq>
cliebow_: smells like him too
07:57
<cliebow_>
haha!
07:58
<jammcq>
osl: I don't know what you are running, so I don't know where the problem could be
07:58
<osl>
well, I'm working on Mille-xterm
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07:58
<jammcq>
hmm
07:58
<osl>
mille-xterm.org
08:02
<klausade>
using ltsp5, I need to set autoneg off on my thinclients nic. on a normal workstation I would do that with "ethtool -s eth0 autoneg off". any pointers how to do that with ltsp5?
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08:03
<osl>
my problem rises at the moment when the client trying to mount the file system, where should I look for ?
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08:10
<sbalneav>
Morning all
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08:24
<klausade>
sbalneav: morning. I managed to get X_RAMPERC working, on debian etch. But, using x_ramperc=90 on a machine that only has 64mb ram, and no swap, makes ldm not start. what do you think about that?
08:24
<sbalneav>
I think you need to enable swap
08:24
or, raise X_RAMPERC
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08:25
<klausade>
sbalneav: yes, turning on swap helps, also raising X_RAMPERC. It was just an observation.
08:26
<sbalneav>
Well, obviously, on a lower ram machine, it'll be possible to starve the X process out of ram entirely
08:27
ldm spawns both X and the greeter, so you've got to have room for all three.
08:27
given that, on a 64 meg machine, you've probably got no more than 40-45 meg free by the time ldm gets around to executing, it's not surprising.
08:29
<klausade>
sbalneav: so, whats the real-life difference between X_RAMPERC=80 and X_RAMPERC=95?
08:29
<sbalneav>
What do you mean?
08:29
15 %
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08:33
<klausade>
sbalneav: I mean, if both X_RAMPERC=95 and X_RAMPERC=80 works for me, which one should I use?
08:34
<sbalneav>
95, obviously. That will dedicate the most amount of ram to the X process.
08:35
It's just a case of giving the machine just enough headroom to allow it to die gracefully when it exhausts all it's memory.
08:35
as opposed to the kernel hitting it over the head with a hammer.
08:36
if it works for you at 99 or 98, that's even better.
08:39
Morning Gadi!
08:39
<Gadi>
morning, sbalneav (/me says in groggy tone)
08:40
<sbalneav>
You need more coffee!
08:40
<Gadi>
indeed - tried to have a cup before I left home and the cup was out of the dishwasher still a bit soapy
08:40
enough to ruin the whole day
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09:17
<rjune_>
Gadi !
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09:28
<Petaris>
Hello
09:28
Are there any K12LTSP users here?
09:29
I have a K12 specific question and I don't have time to wait for a mail list answer (I have searched the mail list for the answer though)
09:30
I want to setup a default profile in /etc/skel but it seems to be being ignored when a new user logs on
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09:31
<Petaris>
to create the profile I have a local user that I setup the way I wanted and then used an rsync script I created to copy it to /etc/skel
09:31
I have done everything I can think of to take, even restarting the server
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09:32
<Petaris>
I did back up /etc/skel before copying over it just in case that breaks something else
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09:53
<Petaris>
Hi highvolt1ge
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10:53
<klausade>
Petaris: only when you _create_ a new user is the stuff copied in from /etc/skel.
10:54
<Petaris>
klausade, so where would my LDAP users (who have not logged into the system before) get their profile from?
11:00
<klausade>
Petaris: quit often the homedir is made at the same time as the account in ldap is made. If homedirs are on a different server than ldap, you could use pam_mkhomedir.so to copy stuff in the first time they logon.
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11:17
<Petaris>
klausade, ahh
11:18
your right they are made but it is on an OS X server so I wouldn't have thought that would matter
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11:25
<Petaris>
klausade: Do you think I could do it with a login script that only runs if it doesn't see some file file in the users home dir?
11:25
hrm
11:25
it would need to complete before xfce loaded though
11:26
<vagrantc>
just use a ~/.xsession file...
11:26
well, not knowing what you're doing ...
11:27
<Petaris>
vagrantc, I am trying to copy a profile that I setup to all of the LDAP users who logon
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11:27
<vagrantc>
profile, as in sabayon ?
11:27
<Petaris>
so that they will have our custom settings
11:27
as in user
11:28
that which is contained in /etc/skel
11:28
<vagrantc>
so, a make-homedirs-on-login sort of thing?
11:28
<Petaris>
well, kind of
11:29
their homedirs exist on the OS X server, but no settings for the ltsp server
11:29
<vagrantc>
then it is not contained in /etc/skel ?
11:29
<Petaris>
yes, thats where I put it but its ignoring it
11:29
<ogra>
what exactl do you put there ?
11:30
*exactly
11:30
<vagrantc>
what exactly is put where ?
11:30
<Petaris>
Hi ogra
11:30
ok
11:30
<ogra>
hey
11:30
<Petaris>
I created a local (non-LDAP) user on my ltsp box
11:30
I set this user up the way I wanted all users to be
11:31
I then used an rsync script to copy that to /etc/skel
11:31
this worked with edubuntu last year
11:31
but not with k12ltsp this year
11:31
a key difference is that last year I was using active dir for auth and this year open ldap
11:32
no local home directories are created
11:32
*on the ltsp box
11:33
<ogra>
so rather a pam issue i guess
11:33
<Petaris>
so how do I pass my settings on to the LDAP users the first time they login to the LTSP clients
11:33
ogra: could be, I don't know
11:33
<vagrantc>
libpam-mkhomedir or something ...
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11:34
<Petaris>
I thought it would still pull the settings from /etc/skel as the settings don't exist for the users in OS X
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11:34
<Petaris>
so they have to come from somewhere
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11:34
<vagrantc>
if it's not creating the home directory ...
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11:34
<vagrantc>
or if the home directory already exists ... it's not going to do anything.
11:34
typically
11:35
<Petaris>
its not because said dir exists on the os x server
11:35
<vagrantc>
the only time /etc/skel is used, typically, is during account creation
11:35
<Petaris>
hrm
11:35
there must be a way
11:35
<ogra>
and not even by all tools ...
11:36
<vagrantc>
relying on configurations in /etc/skel is a bad idea anyways.
11:36
<Petaris>
can I force a login script for all users that login from LDAP?
11:36* ogra never can remember if its useradd or adduser tat doesnt set up anything by default
11:36
<Gadi>
Petaris: is the ldap server on the k12ltsp box?
11:36
<vagrantc>
because, if you change the default configuration, only new users get the configuration
11:36
<Petaris>
Gadi: an OS X server
11:36
<vagrantc>
ogra: depends on the distro ... heh :)
11:37
<ogra>
heh
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11:37
<vagrantc>
ogra: i seem to recall debian and redhat-derivatives being exactly opposite.
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11:37* ogra would recommend to make proper global default settings instead of tweaking /etc/skel
11:37
<Gadi>
Petaris: so why not use mkhomedir?
11:37
<Petaris>
vagrantc, right, but I figured since they wouldn't have the settings for xfce or the ltsp box created for them already that it would take them from /etc/ skel
11:37
<vagrantc>
ogra: yeah, that's what i was getting at :)
11:37
Petaris: i think you were figuring wrongly.
11:38
<Petaris>
ogra: that would work too, but where would I put them?
11:38
<vagrantc>
Petaris: in /etc ?
11:38
<Petaris>
Gadi: they already have homedirs, and I don't want to wip out their documents
11:39
<Gadi>
ah
11:39
<vagrantc>
i.e. /etc/kde* for KDE configuration ... probably /etc/gnome* for gnome configurations ...
11:39
sure beats copying files into home directories
11:39
<Gadi>
well, if xfce uses gconf (not sure if it does) you can use gconf-editor to set up most things
11:40
or, dare I say it, sabayon
11:40
<ogra>
Petaris, whereever the desktop environment you use respects them :)
11:40
for gnome i'D use /usr/chare/gconf/defaults/ and have an override file there ...
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11:40
<ogra>
xfce probably uses something in /etc
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11:42
<Gadi>
I still like using sudo gconf-editor for gnome
11:43
a lot easier than mucking with the xml files
11:43
<ogra>
no xml involved
11:43
did you ever look at the files in this dir ?
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11:44
<ltsppbot>
"ogra" pasted "/usr/share/gconf/defaults/20-edubuntu for Gadi" (8 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/320
11:44
<Gadi>
ah, /usr/share
11:44* Gadi was thinking /etc/gconf
11:44
<Gadi>
hmm, actually I never have
11:44
good tip! ;)
11:45
still not the most intuitive
11:45
:)
11:45
<ogra>
you can force the order with the sequence numbers ... and it wont get overwritten by anything :)
11:45
<Gadi>
in gconf-editor you can set as Default or as Mandatory
11:45
<ogra>
its a beautiful easily system :)
11:47* vagrantc loves multi-layered configuration
11:47
<vagrantc>
that's at the heart of ltsp-build-client plugins :)
11:47
<ogra>
yeah :)
11:47
<vagrantc>
the only downside is when there are incompatible changes ...
11:49
but that's usually just going to be a pain no matter what
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12:33
<bricode>
Do you have to update the image after updating the ssh-keys?
12:34
<sbalneav>
yes
12:34
<ogra>
in gutsy at least
12:38
<sbalneav>
We should come up with some kind of tarball overlay, like with the lts.conf, for those sorts of things.
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12:39
<sbalneav>
As well, what I want to spend 10 minutes on at some point is a "viltsconf" command, like "visudo", that firgures out where your ltsp.conf file is (depending on if you're nfs or nbd chroot) and uses the $EDITOR variable to edit the file.
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12:40
<ogra>
sbalneav, well ... you dont *need* to use a tmpfs for the wireteable bits in the union/squashfs setup
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12:41
<ogra>
you could as well mount an ext2 image instead of the tmpfs
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12:41
<ogra>
so if you llop mount both on the server and merge them in a unionfs there, you can do changes directly
12:42
<sbalneav>
Well, either way. Something so that adding custom xorg.conf's or changing sshkeys doesn't require a rebuild.
12:42
<ogra>
without rebuilding the image
12:42
that was initially my idea for hardy to get rid of the chroot
12:42
<sbalneav>
Just use the base os, eh?
12:43
<ogra>
well, use the squashfs we build with ltsp-build-client but make all changes go live into a rw mounted ext2 image
12:43
and mount that instead of the tmpfs
12:43
would save client ram as well
12:44
<sbalneav>
hm
12:44
Interesting.
12:44
<ogra>
it adds some security challenges though
12:44
<sbalneav>
heh, doesn't everything? :)
12:45
<ogra>
well, mounting the rw image over the net ...
12:45
btw did you notice how utterly broken unionfs is atm ?
12:46
booting a thin client gets my server into constant beeping from syslog getting oopses from the client
12:46
<sbalneav>
I've heard some rumblings, and seen some error messages, but it seems to keep working.
12:47
Someone on top of it? This upstream breakage, or ubuntu breakage?
12:48* vagrantc would be surprised to see upstream changes this late in a release cycle
12:48
<ogra>
ubuntu breakage, being dealt with
12:49
it broke with the last kernel update
12:49
<sbalneav>
Cool.
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12:49
<ogra>
and affects the liveCD more than us
12:49
(we keep booting, they dont ;P)
12:49
<sbalneav>
heh, bit of a priority then :)
12:50
<ogra>
well, it seems not to do any harm to thin clientns, everything works as expected, its just noisy and leaves a bad feeling
12:50
<diadicic>
can someone help me understand how to setup an autologin from a remote Terminal using KDM. I've read through the mailing list but can't understand how to get it going.
12:50* ogra has no idea about kdm
12:50* vagrantc finally got the alsa -> pulse support working for debian
12:51
<ogra>
yay
12:51* ogra applauds
12:51
<diadicic>
ogra: do you know how to do it with GDM?
12:51
<vagrantc>
it amounted to adding a few lines in asound.conf and install libasound2-plugins
12:51
the hard part was "a few lines"
12:52
not having a clue how alsa is configured
12:52
<ogra>
diadicic, yes, its documented in the wiki
12:52
yeah, you need asoundconf
12:52
<vagrantc>
asoundconf wasn't useful at all
12:52
<ogra>
uh ?
12:52
thats what sets up the virtual alsa device
12:53
<vagrantc>
running it listed no devices, even after i got it working
12:53
<ogra>
and since that has to happen per user we have it in XSession.d
12:53
it wont list anything
12:54
asoundconf set-pulseaudio
12:54
<vagrantc>
hm. i just set a global default in /etc/asound.conf
12:54
<ogra>
thats what you want
12:54
and PULSE_SERVER to be set right
12:54
<diadicic>
ogra: I will check it out again but, I pretty sure that it didn't work, and I it was sugested that I use KDM.
12:54
<vagrantc>
sure
12:54
<ogra>
diadicic, well, in ltsp5 we dont use either ,,,
12:55
<vagrantc>
ogra: i just set the global default to use pulse instead ... but a per-user thing would probably be a good idea...
12:55
<Gadi>
diadicic: it should work in gdm
12:55
<ogra>
vagrantc, if you set a global default it will also affect logins on the server
12:55
<vagrantc>
ogra: sure.
12:55
<Gadi>
make sure your user is set to your loginscript|
12:55
with the pipe (|) on the end
12:55
<ogra>
vagrantc, the right way would be to have it in a ldm rc script ....
12:55
<vagrantc>
hrm.
12:56
<ogra>
and we should have post-session rc scripts to revert changes in ldm
12:57
<vagrantc>
i did seem to have problems with floppy ltspfs mounts not unmounting sometimes ...
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13:00
<ogra>
yeah i saw you moaning last night in the rare seconds i was online during my mega upload
13:00
<vagrantc>
heh
13:00
<ogra>
actually that were the only messages that got through here in 8h :P
13:00
<sbalneav>
ogra: BTW, did I mention: bugfixes in ltspfs-upstream?
13:00
<ogra>
beyond 0.5 ?
13:00
<vagrantc>
cdpinger is borked
13:01
<ogra>
who cares
13:01
<vagrantc>
heh
13:01
<ogra>
if they dont have bread, why dont they eat cacke ?
13:01
*cake
13:01
sbalneav, will merge, thanks
13:03
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: do you think it needs "from subprocess import *" or will "from subprocess import call" be sufficient? i.e. do we use any other parts of subprocess ?
13:03
that worked for me, and it's a bit cleaner
13:05
<ogra>
* is evil
13:05
especially on limited ram
13:08
<diadicic>
Gadi: Should there be one pip or two. (loginscript |) or (loginscript ||)?
13:09
<Gadi>
diadicic: one
13:09
at the end
13:09
no space
13:09
<loather-work>
vagrantc: i tried out your fedora bootstrap last night
13:09
<Gadi>
and the script should return a username
13:09
<loather-work>
it bails at the first yum commands
13:09
i think there might be a fedora-release-*.rpm that might need to be installed first
13:09
<diadicic>
ok. in the wiki it has two at the end of each line.
13:09
<loather-work>
lemme see if i can figure it out
13:10
<diadicic>
also, is the autologin.sh script in the wiki ok to use?
13:10
<vagrantc>
loather-work: weird.
13:10
loather-work: the chroot i had was a very basic fedora environment
13:11
<loather-work>
Error: Cannot retrieve repository metadata (repomd.xml) for repository: %s. Please verify its path and try again <--- is the error that happens
13:11
<Gadi>
I haven't looked at the wiki in a while, but all the script needs to do is print the username of the user to be logged in
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13:11
<loather-work>
plus, for whatever reason, it tries to install to /opt/ltsp/amd64, rather than i386, like it should
13:11
<Gadi>
the idea is that it will use the DISPLAY variable to figure out what thin client it is and map that to a username
13:11
<diadicic>
Gadi: I am not good at bash scripting yet.
13:12
I don't know how to do it.
13:12
<loather-work>
i'll figure out the architecture thing later -- it needs to at least install first
13:12
<Gadi>
ah. do you have the wiki link handy
13:12
I can take a peak at what they have there
13:12
er, peek
13:12
stupid keyboard
13:14
<diadicic>
the only output I get from this script is :0.0
13:15
<Gadi>
you're prolly running it on the server
13:15
if it is run from a thin client, you should get something different
13:15
<diadicic>
ok. I will check it out
13:16
<Gadi>
the DISPLAY variable tells applications where to display themselves
13:16
<rjune_>
Gadi: !
13:16
<Gadi>
it is of the form: <host>:<display>.<srceen>
13:16
rjune_: !!!
13:16
<rjune_>
you coming to indiana this month?
13:16
or is it next?
13:16
<Gadi>
is there a hoe-down?
13:16
;)
13:17
bec i only go to indiana for hoe-downs and hootinannies
13:17
<rjune_>
you betcha
13:17
an OSS hoe down sponsored by the IN DOE
13:17
<Gadi>
really?
13:18
<rjune_>
yup
13:18
<Gadi>
got details?
13:18
<rjune_>
gimme a sec
13:18* rjune_ rummages in INBOX
13:18
<Gadi>
watch out for sharp edges!
13:19
<rjune_>
http://daveshields.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/first-k-12-open-minds-conference-october-9-11-2007-in-indianapolis-indiana/
13:23
<Gadi>
wow - big conf
13:24
<rjune_>
yup
13:25
<diadicic>
Gadi: I have not figured it out yet but I know a little more thanks to you. I figured out how the $DISPLAY works.
13:25
Off to experiment. Thanks again
13:26
<Gadi>
diadicic: np - it makes more sense as you dig deeper
13:26
but, you'll never get it working if you don't understand what its trying to do
13:26
sometimes the wikis leave that out :)
13:26
<rjune_>
sometimes?
13:26
Gadi: you ever do smbldap?
13:26
<Gadi>
sure
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13:28
<cliebow_>
rjune_:yuou playing with smbldap?
13:29
Gadi:So if you want to change password used to join domain..which do you change?
13:29
<ogra>
loather-work, so youre taking over fedora development ?
13:29
for ltsp5 ?
13:30
<loather-work>
haha, i don't know about that :P but I'll definitely assist.
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13:30
<Gadi>
cliebow: what do you mean which?
13:30chupacabra_ is now known as chupacabra
13:30
<loather-work>
I just need to get it to work for the moment; if I have some time to maintain it, I'll grab the hat and run with it
13:31
<cliebow_>
if you add a windows machine you are promprted for user and pw..i ve never been sure which root account it uses??
13:31
<ogra>
loather-work, wellm, given you are the only one actively working on something for fedora now ... i'd consider you a lead not an assistant ;)
13:32
<loather-work>
haha, indeed ... well, i suppose I am, then
13:32
<Gadi>
cliebow_: the one in ldap
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13:41
<rjune_>
cliebow_: yup
13:42
My smb server can't find my username in ldap
13:42
cliebow_: look at GOsa
13:42
if I can work out my problem, it'll be nifty
13:42
<Gadi>
rjune_: did you do: smbpasswd -w
13:43
<rjune_>
yup
13:43
Sep 18 14:37:28 vm-auth slapd[15660]: conn=12 op=2 SRCH base="dc=imagestream,dc=com" scope=2 deref=0 filter="(&(uid=rjune)(objectClass=sambaSamAccount))"
13:43
Sep 18 14:37:28 vm-auth slapd[15660]: conn=12 op=2 SRCH attr=uid uidNumber gidNumber homeDirectory sambaPwdLastSet sambaPwdCanChange sambaPwdMustChange sambaLogonTime sambaLogoffTime sambaKickoffTime cn sn displayName sambaHomeDrive sambaHomePath sambaLogonScript sambaProfilePath description sambaUserWorkstations sambaSID sambaPrimaryGroupSID sambaLMPassword sambaNTPassword sambaDomainName objectClass sambaAcctFlags sambaMungedDial
13:43
sambaBadPasswordCount sambaBadPasswordTime sambaPasswordHistory modifyTimestamp sambaLogonHours modifyTimestamp uidNumber
13:43
Sep 18 14:37:28 vm-auth slapd[15660]: <= bdb_equality_candidates: (uid) index_param failed (18)
13:43
that's from my ldap log
13:43
but I can do a manual search on that filter with those attr, and it works fine
13:45
<Gadi>
make sure you do smbpasswd -w after any update to the dn info in smb.conf
13:45
any change in the smb.conf's info requires reissuing smbpasswd -w
13:46
<rjune_>
still fails
13:49
<Gadi>
ssl?
13:57
<rjune_>
as in ldap ssl?
13:57
not using it, using plain old ldap
13:57
samba connects to the ldap server and tries to find my username, but doesn't find it
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14:20
<rjune_>
found my problem. kind of
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14:24
<Gadi>
gotta run. don't be a stranger, rjune_
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14:24
<loather-work>
ok, i finally got it to begin installing.
14:24* ogra applauds
14:25
<loather-work>
it required a bit of haxery that I'm not happy with, but it seems to be doing the right thing so far
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16:30
<sbalneav>
Heading home, be on later tonight.
16:31
<ogra>
ciao sbalneav
16:31* ogra will be off then
16:38
<Guaraldo>
sbalneav: Congratulations!!! the C port of LDM is wonderfull... here I have about 40 seconds to be up...
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17:02
<charlie_21>
hi all
17:03
<loather-work>
ugh, yum sucks
17:03
<charlie_21>
Is there such a formula to determine the amount of cpu power needed to accommodate the amount of users need
17:03
using an ltsp server
17:04
<loather-work>
that depends entirely on the workload
17:05
<charlie_21>
workload
17:05
ok
17:05
how can you determina that
17:05
<loather-work>
and really, you'll notice that CPU bandwidth won't be the determining factor
17:05
it'll more likely be memory size
17:05
<charlie_21>
but memory
17:06
is
17:06
so its ok to have a pentium four for 50 users
17:06
??
17:06
what I am trying to say
17:07
<loather-work>
for instance, we have a box here that runs 4.3, and it's got a dual core opteron 270 and 4G RAM
17:07
<charlie_21>
that system is good for 50 users
17:07
<loather-work>
it serves 25 clients and sits around 20-30% CPU, and almost all the memory used
17:07
it would benefit from 8G of memory
17:08
but the CPU is fine. With 50 users, I wouldn't go any less than 8G and 4 cores. This is for a full GNOME desktop on each station.
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17:09
<charlie_21>
ok
17:10
but because of that information
17:10
cant there be a formula to be determined for this to work
17:10
it would be interesting to have that
17:10
<loather-work>
no, such a formula wouldn't really be deterministic
17:10
all my clients are just running web browsers
17:11
if they were doing anything intensive, it wouldn't be sufficient
17:11
<charlie_21>
I see
17:12
I know that alot of things play a factor in this situation
17:12
we have the desktop environment
17:12
XFCE 4 Gnome KDE JWM
17:13
and the applications being used on the system
17:14
but such a formula will only give a basic understanding as to where it should start
17:14
example when there are system requirements for an os
17:14
it states it can run with minimum 256 mb
17:15
that kind of information is really nice to have
17:16
does anybody in the channel see what I am talking about
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21:17
<loather-work>
ah, well, closer to having fedora integration
21:18
as soon as i get a working (booting and logging in) system i'm going to work on paring down the package list to a minimum and getting the additional features to work, like remote devices and sound
21:40
<joebob777as7>
while you're at it loather-work get compiz to work
21:44
<loather-work>
haha, i'll let someone else tackle *that* can of worms ;)
21:44
my stations don't even have 3D hardware
21:45
<sbalneav>
haha, that's what *I* said :)
21:47
<loather-work>
haha, to be honest all I wanted to do was download that ubuntu tarball and run with it
21:47
however, it looks like that's not going to work too well
21:47
so headfirst into the deep end I go
21:47
(and now I'm the LTSP fedora maintainer by popular demand!)
21:49
<sbalneav>
loather-work: Well, after I get done with Gutsy, i was planning on spending some time getting an up-to-date tarball working with Fedora
21:49
but if you're porting, so much the better.
21:54
<loather-work>
we'll see how it goes -- i hope to at least have a terminal booting by tomorrow
21:55
my biggest barrier to quick development is my slowass internet connection here
21:55
*never* get T1 circuits through cox.
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21:56
<jammcq>
hello kidz
21:56
<loather-work>
hi there.
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