LTSP 5 is in minimal maintenance mode
The new LTSP is hosted at https://ltsp.github.io

IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 30 August 2019   (all times are UTC)

00:30
<mmarconm>
alkisg: what is the disavantages in use ltsp for company, like production, databases, offices
00:30
i mean if the server fails, all the computers freeze ?
00:30
recommended to have a fallback server ?
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03:26
<alkisg>
mmarconm, it's like any other server; like file servers, http servers etc; once they go do, you need to replace them from backups etc for the service to be available again
03:26
The good thing about Linux is that for hardware failures, moving the disk elsewhere can make the service instantly available again...
03:26
E.g. if the server motherboard fails, you move the disk to pc01, and "call it" an ltsp server and everything is up again
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13:01
<MWALTERS>
mmarconm: We are a small social services non-profit... we have 4 offices, each with their own LTSP server
13:02
We deal with a lot of what the US calls "protected health information", which is information about heathcare combined with personally identifiable information
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13:02
<MWALTERS>
PHI storage and transmission is regulated in the states. LTSP enables us to have diskless workstations... which is a huge benefit to us.
13:02
<mmarconm>
Good
13:03
MWALTERS: how many workstantion do u have, and severs ?
13:03
<MWALTERS>
before you even get into the financials of workstations and things like that... a brand new workstation for us is like $250... probably under $400 w/ monitor, mouse, and keyboard
13:03
We have 4 servers, 1 per LAN. Probably around 75 to 85 workstations in total
13:04
(4 ltsp servers)
13:04
<mmarconm>
chrootless or chroot ?
13:04
if on server fails, another server take place ?
13:04
<MWALTERS>
I use a chroot, primarily because that's what I was familiar with when we upgraded from 14.04 to 18.04
13:04
<mmarconm>
ahhh, i use chroot too
13:05
has ldap integrated ?
13:05
<MWALTERS>
the LTSP servers are VMs. If the hardware fails, I simply replace it, install libvirtd, and fire up a backup snapshot
13:05
I'm using FreeIPA for ldap right now, yes
13:05
<mmarconm>
hunmnm GOod
13:05
i am using samba 4 + ldap
13:06
the program that you use, its web bases ?
13:06
<MWALTERS>
We use gSuite for email/office applications, and we have a home grown web-based case management system... that's about 90% of what we do
13:07
We still have a win2012r2 server and 4 windows workstations for quickbooks/financials, though
13:07
<mmarconm>
where are u from ?
13:07
<MWALTERS>
managing even 4 windows computers is such a CHORE compared to LTSP
13:07
<mmarconm>
EUA, greek ?
13:07
<MWALTERS>
Eastern USA
13:07
<mmarconm>
Ahhh good
13:07
i feel sad, ltsp and a big project, but not very known
13:08
MWALTERS: its possible to install ltsp on wireless network ?
13:08
<MWALTERS>
it's really amazing what alk, hyper, et al. have been able to do
13:08
<mmarconm>
Yes
13:08
if a client fails, OK, just replace, do not need to format again, and reinstall all over
13:08
<MWALTERS>
pxe isn't "supported" over wlan... but... I do have 2 workstations in a remote building about 25 meters away from one of our offices that operates over a wireless link
13:09
LTSP server -> office lan <- wireless link -> remote office LAN -> workstations
13:09
<mmarconm>
MWALTERS: how oftem you upgrade the images ?
13:09* mmarconm feels bad about his english
13:09
<MWALTERS>
due to the nature of what we do and the sensitivity of the information we handle, every 2 weeks
13:10
You speak English better than a lot of native speakers I know ;)
13:10
<mmarconm>
i installed ltsp on college, 1 server and 40 workstations
13:10
after that a installed samba + ldap
13:11
<MWALTERS>
nice... I our largest installation is our primary office... 3 buildings connected by 1gb fiber... probably 30 workstations
13:12
All the buildings are old 1900s houses, though... again, due to what we do, we like to keep a friendly, inviting appearance :)
13:12
...which makes it a huge pain to run cable ;)
13:12
<mmarconm>
i am from brazil, and fiber here its a very expensive thing
13:13* mmarconm everything its Expensive in brazil =(
13:13
<MWALTERS>
We have fiber internet through a local provider... but our LAN runs are fairly short... but yeah... it wasn't cheap
13:13
I have a rally codriver friend from Brazil, but he lives up here now
13:13
I also used to work for a razor manufacturer with offices in Sao Paulo ... and some other city I can't remember
13:13
<mmarconm>
ahhh i rope go to EUA too, i am a programmer
13:14
how long do u manage this company ?
13:14
<MWALTERS>
I remember having such a hard time troubleshooting windows when the language was set to Portuguese ;)
13:14
<mmarconm>
ahahaaa
13:14
yes, portuguese is not a easy language to learn
13:14* mmarconm learning portuguese till now
13:14
<MWALTERS>
It looks very similar to Spanish (at least to an English native)... but it really isn't! ;)
13:15
I've been working here and with LTSP about a year
13:15
<mmarconm>
Yes, we can understand spanish quit a bit, but yet its very diferent
13:16
pt-br brazil and pt-pt portugal, its very very diferent languages LOL
13:16
<MWALTERS>
I do miss that job, though... we had so many offices around the world for a small company... Worked with people from Brazil, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Czech Republic, Israel, UK
13:16
...Czech and Hebrew... those were hard too!
13:17
I had no idea what I was doing when looking at a Hebrew desktop ;)
13:17
<mmarconm>
MWALTERS: mandarin its very hard
13:17
<MWALTERS>
...just hope things are in the same place!
13:17
<mmarconm>
ahaha
13:17
before you run ltsp-buil-image, you make some backupt from the old one ?
13:17
<MWALTERS>
English can be similar... us-en, gb-en... Indian English is super interesting
13:17* mmarconm something made confusion about, make and made
13:18
<MWALTERS>
if you're updating the image, you want to use ltsp-update-image
13:18
which will back up the current image automatically
13:18
<mmarconm>
ahhh
13:18
<MWALTERS>
the build command completely recreates the chroot I think
13:18
<mmarconm>
did u test the new ltsp19 ?
13:19
<MWALTERS>
Not yet... when I started here everything was waaaay out of date already... we were still running whatever shipped with ubuntu 14.04
13:19
<mmarconm>
:o 14.04 ??? using unity ?
13:19
<MWALTERS>
I just updated to ltsp5/18.04 in December... I'm planning to start digging into 19 after the new year
13:19
<mmarconm>
i love ltsp + lxde, like lubunut
13:20
<MWALTERS>
No, the desktops were... metacity? the gnome2 fork
13:20
We also used thinclients then
13:20
<mmarconm>
gnome 2 fork ?? mate ?
13:20
<MWALTERS>
We're using mate now
13:20
<mmarconm>
ahh, i am using lubuntu
13:20
<MWALTERS>
it wasn't mate... can't remember what it was called ;)
13:20
maybe it was gnome flashback
13:21
<mmarconm>
ahhh yes yes, gnome flashback
13:21
<MWALTERS>
But that's what was here when I started
13:21
<mmarconm>
in brazil almost no one know about ltsp
13:21
just the old guys ehehehe
13:22
<MWALTERS>
It's not common in the states either... most shops here are just Microsoft
13:22
<mmarconm>
ahhhh
13:22
i dont have complains about M$ or Windows 10, but i some cases i indicate Windows or linux
13:22
but here in brazil, most companies uses Win
13:23
i tried to manage pxe with windows, but used a lot of memory
13:23
<MWALTERS>
Microsoft's licensing programs are just too much to deal with for me
13:23
It all seems intentionally confusing, and designed to encourage you to make mistakes
13:24
<mmarconm>
MWALTERS: if for you american people its expensive, imagine for us, brazil that cost 4 times more
13:24
amost a month salary one license Windows 10
13:24
almost*
13:24
<MWALTERS>
I'm sure! I think Microsoft is becoming less and less required, though. With all the online productivity suites... most people don't need MS office anymore
13:25
We only keep it around for quickbooks, because we can't find a financial package that meets our needs yet
13:25
<mmarconm>
libreoffice its quite good
13:25
but i have a lot of functions alredy build to excel
13:25
so .... its hard to change to libreoffce
13:26
<MWALTERS>
Yeah, file conversions don't always go well either, Office to Libre, I mean
13:26
Google sheets has matured a lot, though... most of the time I can just drop a MS Office file up there and it "just works"
13:26
<mmarconm>
Ahhh yes
13:26
really ??? i do not used google sheet often, i have to test to see
13:26
<MWALTERS>
but if you don't have reliable internet all the time... that can be a problem!
13:27
<mmarconm>
how much cost a fiber in EUA ?
13:27
and the speed that you get
13:27
i heard that 1gb/s costs 30 bucks per month
13:28
<MWALTERS>
Where's that?!
13:28
<mmarconm>
ahhh i dont remember
13:28
was a very long time ago
13:29
<MWALTERS>
We have 100mb/100mb in this office... It's somewhere between usd$100-200/mo... 2 of our offices further away have 1gb/1gb fiber, we get that really cheap... 4th office just has small cable circuit, since only a few people work there
13:29
in the US is very region dependent
13:29
We get discounts usually because we're not for profit
13:29
<mmarconm>
Ahhh good
13:29
<MWALTERS>
I'm sure expensive is all relative too...
13:30
I have cable at home, 250mb/10mb which is around $90/mo
13:30
<mmarconm>
here i thing costs 30 bucks, ( converted to dollar ) per month for 10mb/s
13:30
<MWALTERS>
but I could go 25km west... and not be able to get anything except wireless or satelite internet
13:31
<mmarconm>
how many I.T manage the company
13:31
<MWALTERS>
broadband in the USA is... complicated :)
13:31
<mmarconm>
one per server ?
13:31
<MWALTERS>
Just me
13:32
<mmarconm>
everybody using telegram, discord, facebook, whatsapp but us are the resistence using IRC LOL
13:34
<MWALTERS>
IRC forever!
13:34
"It's not broken, stop trying to fix it" ;)
13:36
I think slack is funny... first it looked like an IRC replacement... channels and chat... they added threads not too long ago... they basically reinvented a bulletin board system ;)
13:36
<mmarconm>
LOL
13:36
i used to use slack, but i have to many apps installed alredy
13:36
i do not use slack very often
13:39
MWALTERS: do u recommend use ssd ?
13:39
for ltsp server ?
13:49
<MWALTERS>
I have root and chroot on an SSD, and /home/ on a slow disk
13:49
mostly just so the VM starts up super fast :)
13:50
<mmarconm>
ahhhh O
13:51
ssd m2 ?
13:56
<MWALTERS>
naw, just sata SSDs
13:57
<mmarconm>
ahhh Ok
13:58
do make some bkp of /home folder to another pc ?
13:58
<MWALTERS>
from the LTSP server?
13:59
<mmarconm>
Yes
13:59
<MWALTERS>
I use lsyncd to keep /home mirrored across all of our LTSP servers... it is also mirrored from the main office LTSP server to our backup server, where it gets backed up off site
14:00
<mmarconm>
lsyncd .... i dint know this
14:00
ahhh if one server fails, another server assume, ltsp servers are clusters ?
14:00
<MWALTERS>
all of our servers are separated by WAN, so we can't do auto failover :(
14:01
<mmarconm>
ahhhh =(
14:01
https://github.com/axkibe/lsyncd <<< this ?
14:01
<MWALTERS>
but with lsyncd, any employees at the office where the server failed, can hop over to another office and log right in
14:01
and have all their files
14:01
<mmarconm>
Good
14:01
<MWALTERS>
yup
14:01
that's it
14:02
<mmarconm>
on Windows servers with ldap i setup a roaming folder
14:02
<MWALTERS>
I think it uses inotify to watch for filesystem events, then uses rsync to move the changed files around
14:02
<mmarconm>
the users can loggin wich computer they want
14:02
the home folder its shared on network
14:02
<MWALTERS>
nice
14:03
<mmarconm>
bi companies uses, do not need to buy a lot of notebook for managers and other employee that travel alot
14:03
big*
14:04
take a while to download and the files, home folder and configure offices, but works very well
14:04
all the files*
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15:17
<uumas>
> IRC forever!
15:17
I'm using Matrix, which really well bridges with irc. There's also bridges of varying maturity for most big services including Telegram, Discord, Slack and WhatsApp.
15:49
<mmarconm>
uumas: matrix ???
15:49
what is that ?
15:49
<uumas>
mmarconm: https://matrix.org/
15:50* mmarconm follow the white habbit
15:50
<uumas>
I'm using it for these messages right now
15:50
<mmarconm>
good
15:51
uumas: free ? opensource, payd ?
15:52
<uumas>
Free & opensource. Can be selfhosted or you can use the matrix.org server (or someone else's public server)
16:02
<mmarconm>
i wll test
16:02
thanks
16:02
ohhh this plugin for vscode its amazing, vscode developer console
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21:50
<mmarconm>
Hi all
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21:58
<mmarconm>
the ltsp client boots on /opt/ltsp/images or /opt/ltsp/amd64 ??
21:59
<vagrantc>
can use either, but in generate images have been used in recent versions
21:59
er, in general images...
21:59
<mmarconm>
for a bkp, i prefer to backup images folder or amd64 folder ?
22:00
<vagrantc>
depends on your configuration...
22:01
<mmarconm>
ahhhh lts.conf ?
22:01
<vagrantc>
more complicated than just lts.conf
22:02
<mmarconm>
i moved amd64 folder to another path, and the boots works normal
22:02
<vagrantc>
in general, the images are easier to back up and restore, but they don't backup incrementally ... so depending on your backup capacity...
22:02
<mmarconm>
ahhh Ok
22:02
using rsync, amd64 its more easy
22:02
<vagrantc>
how many old images you want, etc...
22:02
<mmarconm>
Ok
22:02
<vagrantc>
sure
22:02
<mmarconm>
but both are for the same purpose
22:03
<vagrantc>
sort of
22:03
<mmarconm>
ltsp uses only one, based on configuration
22:03
so by default, it uses .img
22:03
<vagrantc>
if you're generating your images from the directory, then backing up the directory should be fine
22:03
if you're generating your images from something else, then that won't do you much good :P
22:05
<mmarconm>
vagrantc: where is located the file configuration to specify either .img or folder ?
22:05
<vagrantc>
it is possible to just directly NFS mount the /opt/ltsp/ARCH directory instead of using an image ... it has advantages and disadvantages, and for a while didn't work at all
22:05
<mmarconm>
Ok
22:06
on ltsp-chroot, this command chage to /opt/ltsp/ARCH ?
22:06
change*
22:07
<vagrantc>
should be in the chroot's /etc/ltsp/update-image.conf
22:07
er...
22:07
update-kernels.conf
22:07
<mmarconm>
Ok
22:08
<vagrantc>
it can generate a menu that supports either
22:08
but it's a bit of a mess to configure
22:09
that whole part of the system is a bit of a mess ... partly my fault... partly just old history
22:09
<mmarconm>
the /etc/ltsp/update-image.conf do not exists, i think that i need to create manualy or using ltsp-conf
22:09
<vagrantc>
look in /opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf
22:10
<mmarconm>
vagrantc: i found
22:10
#TIMEOUT=100
22:10
<<< time for a delay ? like boot delay ?
22:15
<vagrantc>
it gives you a chance to interact with a menu, if a menu is configured
22:16
<mmarconm>
ahhh Ok
22:16
<vagrantc>
it's tenth's of a second, so 100 = 10 seconds
22:19
<mmarconm>
ahhhh
22:20
i did some tests, i generated a new image with some files installed, booted and workfs fine, replace with the old image, and the new apps installed wanst there
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23:18
<mmarconm>
MWALTERS: the flags do u use with rsync to copy all files like /home folder or /opt/ltsp/ARCH ?
23:18
rsync -avpzh ?