IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 27 December 2012   (all times are UTC)

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11:08
<markit>
alkisg: hi :) I added a comment in my bug (no one has replied to it so far) about the strange IP is assigned https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1093088
11:08
do you know any particular reason why that strange 127.0.0.2 has been used?
11:08
<alkisg>
Hi markit
11:09
No, but I don't know why Ubuntu is using 127.0.1.1 either
11:09* markit missed alkisg so much these days, lol
11:09
<markit>
alkisg: debian too
11:09
<alkisg>
Other distros put the hostname at 127.0.0.1
11:09
<markit>
I remember was a gnome problem
11:09
<alkisg>
127.0.0.1 host host.domain localhost
11:09
I think I once saw a debian bug about it
11:09
<markit>
gnome people insisted to use that address to know "local host" name and FQDN if no static address is used
11:09
<alkisg>
(or maybe ubuntu bug, not sure)
11:10
If you can find a bug report that mentions 127.0.1.1, I can commit the change
11:10
<markit>
mm should be IP FQDN hostname, not IP FQDN hostname localhost...
11:10
alkisg: lol, you are putting my desires up side down
11:11
I would like ltsp to follow the "debian way", not to subvert it
11:11
<alkisg>
Haha... I don't know why either of them was selected
11:11
So I can't change it "because debian does it that way"
11:11
<markit>
so use 127.0.1.1 not 127.0.0.*2*
11:11
<alkisg>
LTSP is cross distro
11:11
<markit>
alkisg: I've never seen such a 127.0.0.*2*, do you?
11:12
<alkisg>
No, but I guess that the ltsp devs that put it there saw it somewhere
11:12
So in order to change that, I need some reason
11:12
"because debian does it that way" is good enough to do it that way when implementing something new, but not to change something that already exists without bug reports against it
11:12
And I don't think 127.0.2.2 is causing any bugs
11:13
In short, let's find a bug report that suggests WHY debian should use 127.0.1.1
11:14
<markit>
now I've got
11:14
I'll dig further :)
11:14* markit needs alkisg wisdom
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11:14* alkisg doesn't have any wisdom to offer, other than "don't marry too young" :P
11:18
<alkisg>
g
11:18
<markit>
lol
11:19
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#s-net-dns
11:19
The IP address 127.0.1.1 in the second line of this example may not be found on some other Unix-like systems. The Debian Installer creates this entry for a system without a permanent IP address as a workaround for some software (e.g., GNOME) as documented in the bug #316099.
11:20
http://bugs.debian.org/316099
11:20
alkisg: is it what you need?
11:20
<alkisg>
Reading...
11:20
<markit>
is a 2005 stuff...
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12:04
<MonkWitDaFunk>
hi ppl of ltsp channel, is it possible to network boot a wireless laptop?
12:06
does.the linux terminal server project make it possible?
12:18
<alkisg>
MonkWitDaFunk: it's possible to netboot it, although hard, but it's not worth it, as the bandwidth it too low for usage after boot
12:24
<MonkWitDaFunk>
ok. thanks. im totally new to network booting. my friend calls it pixie booting
12:25
where i recycle, we pixie boot our clients to run badblocks and memtest86
12:28
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, hi!
12:28alkisg has left IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg, Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
12:28
<Hyperbyte>
Got LTSP running nicely with NFS homedirs
12:28
....
12:28
Anyway, I can login from multiple computers at the same time, in the same homedir... all works fine too
12:29
Except Firefox refuses to be started twice, on different computers, because it says it's already running somewhere
12:29
I wonder if anyone knows a workaround
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12:33
<vlt>
Hyperbyte: Its called chromium.
12:35
Hyperbyte: But it's the same with OO/LO or Thunderbird,, isn't it?
12:37
<Hyperbyte>
Thunderbird I'm not using
12:37
LibreOffice asks if I want to continue anyways, so not an issue
12:37
Firefox refuses to start.
12:37
And Office is not so much of an issue, this is for the radio station....
12:37
I have three PC's in front of me
12:38
(work screens near the mixing desk)
12:38
Chances of me needing Office more than once are very slim
12:38
Chances of me wanting to open three different webpages on all three PC's are pretty big
12:38
Anyway, I've done some hack... we'll see how it goes
12:38
Before Firefox starts, a small script removes the lockfiles from the home dir.
12:39
It might screw up some session settings not being stored, but I don't care much about that.
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12:46
<alkisg>
MonkWitDaFunk: "where i recycle, we pixie boot our clients to run badblocks and memtest86 " ==> it'll be much easier if you just put those in a bootable CD or USB stick
12:47
Hyperbyte: logging in with the same users/home dir is not recommented, as other programs also have problems with that
12:47
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, yeah, I know it's not, but I really don't have much choice.
12:47
Or at least I don't think I do.
12:47
<alkisg>
Why not? Maybe there's some better way to organize things...
12:47
<MonkWitDaFunk>
wouldnt badblocks run faster if you network booted from a good computer
12:48
<Hyperbyte>
Three computers, standing nex to eachother, and I want the same user profiles on all three. How would you do it?
12:48
*next
12:48
<alkisg>
MonkWitDaFunk: the program would be loaded in the computer ram, so it would run at the same speed no matter how you load it
12:48
And netbooting over wireless does require some local storage first
12:48
So you'd have to use a CD or a usb stick anyways
12:49
<MonkWitDaFunk>
ok. thank you
12:49
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: same user profiles... does that mean that any changes are lost after logout?
12:49
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, no
12:50
I log in as janmiddelkoop on three computers before I start my program.
12:50
Four if you include the one where I prepare my program before going live.
12:50
<MonkWitDaFunk>
badblacks is run as linux
12:50
<alkisg>
Hyperbyte: so, suppose you visit some web pages with firefox, and it saves them on logout
12:51
If you logout from pc #1, it saves them. Then if you logout from pc #2, it saves them, overwriting the ones from pc #1.
12:51
<Hyperbyte>
That's the only downside.
12:51
<alkisg>
And you don't mind about problems like that, but you do want other data synced?
12:51
<Hyperbyte>
Preferably that wouldn't happen, preferably it would save them both.
12:51
But I think that's not going to happen.
12:51
So right now, I don't mind those problems, but I want as much synced as possible.
12:51
<alkisg>
Not the only... e.g. you might even have settings corruption, with the gconf database being completely broken etc
12:52
Programs are not designed for that usage scenario
12:52
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, only some I think.
12:52
<alkisg>
So you want synced as much stuff as you can get, or just the actual files, and not the settings?
12:52
<Hyperbyte>
dconf database corruption I haven't seen yet... but that's dconf, not gconf.
12:52
alkisg, settings too.
12:53
<alkisg>
I think dconf would be prone to settings corruption too, if you have 2 user dgonf daemons listening there
12:53
It depends on the implementation
12:54
<Hyperbyte>
Haven't seen it happen yet... and everyone at the radio station does this.
12:54
<alkisg>
And of course some programs might even fail to start
12:54
<Hyperbyte>
With sshfs it wasn't a problem, probably because locking works differently there
12:54
But with NFS, Firefox locks the homedir down across computers.
12:54
<alkisg>
E.g. suppose "tuxpaint" locks ~/.tuxpaint/settings, and then you try to run it again, it won't launch because the settings file is locked (just an example, not a real one)
12:54
<MonkWitDaFunk>
hey ppl of ltsp. i think the linux terminal server project is perfect for the light industrial setting
12:55
<Hyperbyte>
Yeah, but the software we use is pretty straightforward. Firefox, OpenOffice, rdesktop/vnc. Basically it. I know it's not ideal, but from a user perspective, this is the best solution I think.
12:55
<alkisg>
So what if 2 users open the same openoffice document at once, and try to save it?
12:55
user #1 changes are lost?
12:56
<MonkWitDaFunk>
file server?
12:57
<Hyperbyte>
alkisg, it's one user though
12:57
I can't edit one file on two computers at the same time
12:57
Well I suppose I could, but then it would be my own fault
12:57
Everybody has their own account, they just use it multiple times
12:57
<markit>
alkisg: btw, yesterday I logged as user "marco", then rebooted the client, relogged as "marco" but the gnome-fallback desktop "froze" (just the wall paper displayed, not menu etc), is the bug about some daemon not quitting you told me time ago? Is just a matter of "slay" user from server to fix when doing experiments?
12:58* alkisg needs to go urgently, bbl...
12:59
<Hyperbyte>
Bye!
12:59
<markit>
bye alkisg :)
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12:59
<markit>
Hyperbyte: we are alone now... ;P
13:03
<MonkWitDaFunk>
hey. i think running from a usb is a good idea. one of these days i hope to boot over a network
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14:01
<markit>
MonkWitDaFunk: "from an usb"?
14:01
btw, if you use FedoraProject, they have a "multi head" GNU/Linux server solution
14:02
sorry, multiseat
14:02
<MonkWitDaFunk>
yes. ive worked with memtest86 and badblocks on nodes that network booted. it.should be possible to.run the same.thing from a usb
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15:35
<Hyperbyte>
markit, actually, YOU were alone, because I left too. ;-)
15:35
<markit>
Hyperbyte: ;P
15:39
anyone tried "berry terminal"? thin client with raspberry pi. I have an error during boot, can't read sd card. If I plug the sd on my pc, in effect can't read the second partition
15:40
could be that a 16GB sd is not supported?
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16:11
<MonkWitDaFunk>
wow. the rasberry pi uses sd cards as secondary memory?
16:14
<||cw>
markit: could be a bad card
16:14
MonkWitDaFunk: as in swap? what else would it use?
16:15
rpi's are weak on the ram. cubbieboard is a better value
16:15
though less mature in OS support, but it's getting there
16:15
<markit>
||cw: maybe I'd better # sync after dd, I just waited and had no blinking led
16:15
<||cw>
markit: yes.
16:15
<markit>
MonkWitDaFunk: as primary memory
16:16
||cw: do you have both? Rp and cubieboard?
16:16
<||cw>
no, but I've seen them both
16:19
<MonkWitDaFunk>
is the RP and cubieboard considered supercomputers?
16:19
<||cw>
um, no. just the opposite
16:21
supercomputers are the size of a room and can emulate all the intricacies of weather patterns and run predictions on possibilities for several days of weather in a couple hours
16:21
like, 1000 iterations or something
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16:26
<MonkWitDaFunk>
can sd cards use the scsi interface?
16:31
i guess not
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16:33
<muppis>
Depends from controllerchip.
16:45
<MonkWitDaFunk>
the controller chip? i noticed that dban detected my usb flash drive as a 4gb scsi kingston. can you further explain the controller.chip?
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16:49
<autoditac>
hey all. is it possible to make ltsp-cluster use NX for local connections as well
16:50
i.e., by default?
16:50
!nx
16:50
<ltsp>
nx: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WorkInProgress#NX or http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/FreeNX
16:50
<markit>
autoditac: I think is much slower than direct LDM
16:51
<autoditac>
markit, sure?
16:51
<markit>
yes
16:51
well, kind of ;P
16:51
<autoditac>
really can't imagine
16:52
<markit>
btw, o2x or something like that is available in ltsp as "plugin"?
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16:58
<autoditac>
markit, what would be the strategy: to install nxclient in the chroot and launch that on screen_07?
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16:59
<markit>
autoditac: I've no idea, sorry
16:59
but probably like that
16:59
then start complaining because of the performance drop ;P
16:59
autoditac: do you have LDM_DIRECT=True in your lts.conf?
17:00
<autoditac>
i have
17:00
<markit>
gbit switch? server with 2 bonded nic?
17:00
(or more)
17:01
<autoditac>
i have gbit and just a single user on my server - i am just testing for now.
17:01
<markit>
a good switch that does not have the anti-flooding active?
17:02
ah, well, performances of the X-Window should not be a problem of bandwidth so
17:02
thin or fat client?
17:02
<autoditac>
thin client
17:02
the roundtrips are the problem
17:07
!dualscreen
17:07
<ltsp>
Error: "dualscreen" is not a valid command.
17:07
<autoditac>
hmmm.
17:07
<markit>
autoditac: really freenx will do more harm than benefit
17:08
<autoditac>
should ltsp discover multiple screens automagically or is there some extra configuration neccessary?
17:08
<markit>
freenx is born to reduce bandwidth and roundtrip in low performance connections
17:09
autoditac: I've no idea, maybe you'd better switch to Fat client config
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17:18
<||cw>
MonkWitDaFunk: dban is linux based, and so whatever linux driver is being used to access the sd card is emulating a scsi interface for the standard linux scsi stack to make their work easier
17:21
<MonkWitDaFunk>
seems like.all usb connections are detected as scsi
17:25
<||cw>
most linux storage drivers do these days
17:25
it's easier to interface with the iscsi stack than to maintain code to supply the block device directly
17:26
<alkisg>
autoditac: markit is right, on LAN, X performs much better than NX, you can even see video without dropped frames with plain X.
17:26
<||cw>
note my wording though. it's not "detected as scsi", ans it isn't scsi, it's just using the linux scsi storage stack
17:27* markit knows he is right because remembers alkisg told you so about NX long time ago
17:28
<||cw>
NX is good for low bandwidth and/or high latency use cases
17:29
<autoditac>
well, unity (even -2d) is no joy to use in a thin-client setup
17:30
especially the hud
17:31
<markit>
kde works fine as thin client once you force color depth (ltsp would default to 16bpp and plasma would look corrupted), or use gnome-fallback
17:31
would love to know if someone has tried lxdm or better xfce
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17:40
<||cw>
wasn't there some talk of officially switching ltsp to lxdm?
17:41
<alkisg>
vagrantc is using LTSP with LXDE
17:41
I don't know about any "official" plans though... ltsp devs seem scattered nowadays
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17:43
<ltspuser_04>
Hello There!
17:44
<||cw>
mornin
17:45
<ltspuser_04>
Can anyone tell me if it is possible to enable the rdp redirection from a ltsp server to a windows server
17:46
<effenberg>
ummm
17:49
<||cw>
ltspuser_04: redirect in what way?
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17:53
<ltspuser_04>
I what to have the possibility to boot both ubuntu and windows
17:53
<markit>
alkisg: I've installed lxde and seems really to use few ram, but xfce creators says that is just because it misses a lot of stuff xfce has, and if you add those xfce is not worse. Also since I use KDE programs a lot, would love to see if Razor-QT DE will evolve
17:53
<ltspuser_04>
like this example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJmMcNPBgig
17:53
<markit>
http://razor-qt.org/
17:53
<||cw>
ltspuser_04: can't do video's here.
17:54
<ltspuser_04>
search for "LTSP to Windows Terminal Server (RDP)"
17:54
<||cw>
ltsp has an rdesktop "screen" that can directly to a windows rdp. you can set up an ltsp menu to let you choose linux or windows
17:54
<ltspuser_04>
That seems good
17:55
how can i do it?
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17:55
<||cw>
in lts.conf
17:55
<ltspuser_04>
i have been searching for documentation but i cant seem to find it
17:55
do you have an example?
17:55
<||cw>
use the MENU_ITEM* and MENU_COMMAND* directives
17:56
gotta run, bbl
17:58
<markit>
ltspuser_04: I've some old note about setting the client do directly (and only) to rdp server with
17:59
SCREEN_07 = "rdesktop -f -d domain -u '' -r sound:local"
17:59
RDP_SERVER = "10.1.1.10"
17:59
or something like that, just in case it's of any help for you
17:59
(parameters for lts.conf file)
18:00
<effenberg>
like in the video, yeah
18:00
<alkisg>
markit: It's true that lxde is missing stuff, but I'm not sure if we do care about the stuff it misses. E.g. we don't even need network manager, and logout inhibitors might even be bad for schools, etc
18:00
<effenberg>
man rdesktop
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18:20
<ltspuser_04>
I have the ubuntu running great but when i put the lts.conf file noting boots
18:21
here's what i have:
18:21
[DEFAULT] SCREEN_07 = rdesktop RDP_SERVER = server SYSLOG_HOST= server [00:0C:29:7C:85:3F] SCREEN_07 = rdesktop -f 192.168.1.30 RDP_SERVER = "192.168.1.30" SYSLOG_HOST= server
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18:25
<knipwim>
ltspuser_04: so the client before you changed the lts.conf?
18:25
ltspuser_04: erm, the client booted before you changed it
18:27
<ltspuser_04>
yes
18:27
ubuntu boots ok
18:28
after checking the syslog file ive found that it cant find the /etc/ltsp/ndb-server.allow file
18:28
could that be the problem?
18:29
<knipwim>
probably not
18:29
it should mount the nbd without it
18:31
right? you see the client mounting the nbd in the server log?
18:31
<ltspuser_04>
no
18:31
sorry
18:31
it seems that is ok
18:32
It says authorized client
18:32
starting to serve
18:32
Size of exported file(device.....
18:32
<knipwim>
kk
18:32
<ltspuser_04>
and nothing else
18:32
<alkisg>
ltspuser_04: rdesktop is not installed in the chroot by default, either install it manually or use the preinstalled xfreerdp
18:33
<ltspuser_04>
but if i run the rdesktop command in the server terminal i cant enter the windows
18:33
<alkisg>
can't, or can?
18:34
<ltspuser_04>
can
18:34
<markit>
alkisg: confused... install or use preinstalled?
18:34
<ltspuser_04>
sorry :D
18:34
<markit>
ah, I see
18:34
<ltspuser_04>
installed
18:34
i have manually installed it with apt-get
18:34
<markit>
btw, xfreerdp ins't the new project much better than rdesktop?
18:34
<alkisg>
ltspuser_04: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg -l rdesktop
18:35
markit: Yes xfreerdp is the newer and better rdp client
18:35
<ltspuser_04>
root@strong-virtual-machine:~# sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg -l rdesktop Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold | Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) ||/ Name Version Architecture Description +++-==============-============-============-================================= un rdesktop <none>
18:36
<alkisg>
ltspuser_04: right, you don't have it installed in your chroot
18:36
Use xfreerdp
18:36
It's already in your chroot
18:37
<ltspuser_04>
do i have to rebuild the client image?
18:37
<markit>
alkisg: is there a way to have multiple fat chroot (i.e. one with kde, one with gnome, one with lxde) and choose where boot easely?
18:37
<alkisg>
vagrantc: r2420 fixes ltsp-cleanup on ltsp servers that are ldap clients... without it, it just breaks, but doesn't cause any harm, so I'd consider it low priority
18:37
ltspuser_04: no, just search the irclogs here for the xfreerdp command line
18:38
markit: sure, you just need a different nbdroot= kernel command line, either with a pxelinux menu or with by mac address
18:39
<markit>
I've no idea where nbdroot is set, also wondering about /var/lib/tftpboot... I will have multiple entries
18:41
<alkisg>
nbdroot is set in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
18:42
And you'd need configuration files in /etc/nbd-server/conf.d/*
18:42
They should be automatically created if you generate more chroots
18:42
<ltspuser_04>
right
18:43
<vagrantc>
alkisg: ok, that's good. i worried it might delete the ldap users or something :)
18:44
<ltspuser_04>
i forgot to mention im running lubuntu and not ubuntu
18:44
is that a problem
18:45
?
18:45
it seems that xfreerdp is not in the chroot
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18:51
<markit>
mmm RazorQT desktop uses only 566MB, wow
18:51
<alkisg>
ltspuser_04: then you'd need to install it
18:51
<markit>
(live cd, not ltsp)
18:51
<alkisg>
Only 566 ram?
18:52
<markit>
yep, free -m
18:52
<alkisg>
And that's "only"?!
18:52
:D
18:52
<markit>
lol
18:52
<alkisg>
markit: check the second line, not the first one
18:52
The one with -/+ buffers/cache in front
18:52
<markit>
ops, used 143MB????
18:53
<alkisg>
Yup, that's more like it
18:53
<markit>
that's stunning indeed
18:53* markit needs to learn some basics
18:53
<markit>
I was happy with "only" 566 lol
18:53
<alkisg>
Well, that means that it wouldn't run with 128 mb ram... while lubuntu does run there
18:54
Is that with just the desktop loaded?
18:54
Or with a browser etc?
18:54
<markit>
never find a decent client (decent to run as fat) with less than 512MB in "my" schools
18:54
just desktop, but if you want I run kde "just desktop" and we can compare
18:54
<alkisg>
You don't have P4 clients with 1.7 GHz CPU and 256 RAM?
18:54
<markit>
no, 512 with XP pro
18:55
<alkisg>
512 can still benefit from low-ram distros
18:55
<markit>
yes, expecially since kde needs more than 768
18:55
;P
18:56
btw, FF in my desktop is using 480MB right now... that is odd
18:56
<alkisg>
Odd, why?
18:56
<markit>
15 tabs open
18:56
well it eats 3 times the GNU/Linux + RazorQT
18:56
just to display 15 web pages?
18:57
<vagrantc>
that's firefox.
18:57
free software bloats too, just slower.
18:59
<markit>
vagrantc: hi, how is lxde working?
19:00
vagrantc: and since you are "on the debian side", just would like your opinion on this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1093088
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19:04
<vagrantc>
markit: lxde works fine
19:05
markit: no real opinion on the bug
19:05
<markit>
vagrantc: works well "out of the box", no special settings / fine tunings / etc? Did you tried xfce also?
19:08
<vagrantc>
haven't tried xfce, lxde requires no special tweaks
19:08
no sane desktop environment *should* require tweaks just to work with LTSP, but many are broken.
19:08
xubuntu requires some tweaks to get the desktop to properly show up as xubuntu rather than plain xfce
19:09
although xubuntu implements it's desktop kinda wonkishly
19:09
i.e. it configures the desktop you want on first login, so if you select xfce at first login, you'll get xfce even if you select xubuntu at later logins, and vice-versa.
19:10
but that's not LTSP specific
19:11
<markit>
I see, thanks
19:12* vagrantc hasn't tried with lubuntu, but worries it may have the same sort of problem.
19:29
<||cw>
markit: firefox caches aggressively
19:30
<markit>
||cw: uhm, was thinking about memory leaks instead
19:30
<||cw>
some extensions do have leaks
19:30
<markit>
wondering what is the reasoning of having my desktop swap like a mad since ff is caching...
19:31
<||cw>
chrome does it too, but chrome lets go of cache ram in a more sane manner
19:31
in chrome you can also "kill" a single tab if something on it is leaking
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19:51
<markit>
is firefox-gnome-support needed for unity too?
20:02
alkisg: do you install kdedu even if you use gnome-fallback? In general, do you install kde programs or fear a bloat of libraries and slow down?
20:34
mmm kde 4.10 in 13.04, desktop + terminal, free says 264MB...
20:35
so it should be able to run with 512MB, just FF is not, lol
20:36
alkisg: are you sure that the right line is the second one? seems that kde + libo writer eating only 294 (so LiBo only 30MB???) is too low
20:39
<||cw>
I install what I need to install. storage is cheap. I don't worry about it
20:42
<markit>
||cw: but if you load a gtk program + a kde one, each will have big libs to carry with
20:43
<||cw>
yes, but if it's what you need, it's what you do.
20:46
<markit>
ok
20:47
maybe I just have to "map" programs that exist in kde with gtk equivalent IF available, and use kde ones if not
20:47
or maybe kde programs run and look just fine in Gnome/Unity/gtk
20:48
<||cw>
they do
20:48
but depending on the app, it might start a bunch of kde helper services, or not
20:49
when it does, that's when you notice the ram usage
20:58
<markit>
mm rerun kubuntu 13.04 kde 4.10 with 512MB ram (it's a VM). Free -m shows free memory, no swap, but the system seems far slower
20:59
also changing tast from Write, to Calc, to Terminal takes some seconds
20:59
while with 1,5GB was snappy
20:59
how can I find what's wrong?
21:00
I mean, I just reduced memory and free shows still free one available, and no swap (well, it's a live cd...)
21:03
<alkisg>
(10:02:29 μμ) markit: alkisg: do you install kdedu even if you use gnome-fallback? In general, do you install kde programs or fear a bloat of libraries and slow down?
21:03
==> we only install kolourpaint in high school, because there's no gnome equivalent... we generally avoid kdeedu, but if some teacher needs it, he installs it in his local installation
21:04
<markit>
do you have a list of programs you usually install? maybe I can find in sh-school scripts?
21:04
<alkisg>
markit: live CDs use compcache or zram, i.e. compressed swap
21:04
<||cw>
markit: what vm? proper video drivers?
21:05
<markit>
||cw: well, the same VM, so the same video driver. First run with 1500MB, then with 512MB
21:05
<alkisg>
markit: we have 5 Gb of greek educational apps packaged in .deb, in repositories
21:05
<||cw>
ah
21:05
<markit>
so the only difference is in RAM, but sine free -m shows free ram available, why on earth is that so slower? :)
21:05
<alkisg>
markit: check what schools in italy use.. and try to package them as .debs
21:05
<||cw>
well, less ram will cache less, and this hit the hdd more
21:06
<markit>
alkisg: mmm now I remember that you package windows programs to be run in wine, correct?
21:06
<alkisg>
Either that, or flash apps which run natively
21:06
Or java apps which also run natively
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21:07
<markit>
||cw: I'm just switching from one program to the other, and since I have free ram (not used by cache) should work fine (well, free line shows only '4' as free)
21:07
alkisg: ok, thought just a list of normal package like I have for kde, but for gnome, never mind :)
21:08
<||cw>
and it's nto swapping, or you have no swap?
21:08
<markit>
is a live cd, how can I tell? the free -m line about swap says "0"
21:08
both as used than as free
21:09
so seems no swap available, afaiu, even if alkisg says that uses a zram one
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21:09
<||cw>
k, so when you have no swap, and you push up on the ram limits, the kernel does all sorts of cheating to prevent from panicing and things will get very slow
21:09
<alkisg>
Maybe their swap stopped working with the compache => zram change
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21:10
<||cw>
ah, zram too... check your cpu usage
21:10
<markit>
so I'd better test in a "real" VM instead of live cd
21:11
<||cw>
or add a vdisk and make some swap
21:11
or yes, a read install
21:11
real^
21:13
<markit>
my real life installations on HW pc is that KDE does not work well if less than 1GB, but seems that it does use far less beliving free, I'll investigate further
21:13
thanks a lot for the tips
21:14* markit still wonders why needs 512MB just to browse around
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