IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 20 August 2009   (all times are UTC)

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01:37
<alkisg>
stgraber: italc-launcher, when run from the LTSP server, is autodetecting each client twice
01:37
I get entries for the same host for both eth0 and eth1 (and eth2 for 3 nic servers). Only one of them should be kept...
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01:38
<alkisg>
avahi-publish publishes them to all available nics... :-/
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01:42
<alkisg>
stgraber: One way to fix it could be: param[1] is the nic (eth0, eth1...). For the first client that is autodetected, set listen_nic=param[1]. For all the other clients, if param[1] != listen_nic, ignore them.
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02:02
<alkisg>
stgraber, patched italc-launcher: http://pastebin.com/f664176fd
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05:38
<nightlight>
hi folks, i got a question
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05:40
<nightlight>
i have set up a thin client environment, but when i try to shutdown clients, they are shutting down the server as well, any ideas ?
05:41
<joshiggins_>
nightlight: which ubuntu version are you using?
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05:42
<nightlight>
i am not using ubuntu, i am using a local distro
05:42
i have built my own rootfs
05:42
and then booted them
05:42
they are working
05:42
but the problem is shutting down
05:42
<joshiggins_>
nightlight:So you're not using LTSP-5?
05:43
<nightlight>
no i am not
05:43
<ogra>
doesnt sound like ltsp at all
05:43
how do you expect us to help ?
05:43
<joshiggins_>
No you're right, but I did have this problem a while back
05:43
<nightlight>
i thought you could give any idea where to start
05:43
<ogra>
depends what exactly you have built there :)
05:44
and how you run it
05:44
<nightlight>
i have built kernel 2.6.30.4-125
05:44
<ogra>
if such a thing like shutting down the server happens in ltsp thats usually a bug in the desktop
05:44
<joshiggins_>
When mine was doing this I ended up only allowing users to log off, and used the shutdown button from the login screen
05:45
<ogra>
right, as i said, usually a desktop bug that you can work around by using LDMs shutdown and disable the desktops shutdown
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05:46
<joshiggins_>
I think the ltsp nightlight is using uses GDM and Xdmcp
05:46
nightlight: ltsp-4?
05:46
<nightlight>
i have heard an idea like setting up sth in the rootfs/etc/ but dont know exactly what to do, it is sth like allowing clients to shut down server
05:47
<ogra>
well, in ltsp clients cant shut down the server at all ... the desktop session tools can though
05:48
if you use something evil like xdmcp it can well be that the display manager has a shutdown option that applies to the server
05:48
so configure your display manager properly if thats the case
05:49
<nightlight>
yes, in my conf file xdmcp is enabled
05:49
<ogra>
ltsp didnt use anything like xdmcp since 5 years ... way to insecure
05:49
<joshiggins_>
Are many people still using older ltsp's?
05:49
<ogra>
some do but given there is no support or development for it it will die over time
05:50
<nightlight>
why is that, the reason not to use the xdmcp ?
05:50
<ogra>
the kernels, xorg etc are massively outdated
05:50
nightlight, you can extract screenshots from the network packets ... do keylogging from network data etc ...
05:51
there is zero privacy with xdmcp
05:51
every keystroke goes publically through the network in clear text
05:51
fun with passwords :)
05:52
<nightlight>
i see, i am not using the thin client env right now, just a development env. but i am glad to know about xdmcp,
05:53
what is ltsp-5 using?
05:53
<ogra>
LDM
05:53
its own display manager
05:53
<nightlight>
ok, thx a lot
05:54
helped me too many
05:54
<ogra>
passwords are always encrypted with it ... for the data stream you have the choice if you want it encrypted or not (i.e. if you have not so powerful client CPUs)
05:56
<nightlight>
i have an idea like , shutting down all clients at a certain time,think like in the library i gonna close all the clients with just one command. how to do that ?
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06:49
<zamba>
i'm running a thin client through a kvm switch.. problem with that is that the monitor isn't detected properly, so my resolution is stuck at 800x600.. is there a way to either permanently fix it or hack it after the client is up and running?
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06:53
<joshiggins_>
zamba: not sure its possible, i've tried everything to get 1680x1050 through my switch, modelines, drivers, different cards,
06:53
i suppose you could try a modeline generator
06:54
<zamba>
but what if you connect the monitor directly to the pc just to get the detection and then move back to the kvm switch?
06:54
wouldn't that be possible?
06:54
<joshiggins_>
should be, if the switch supports the resolution that you want
06:55
i think the problem lies with the switch not passing your monitor's ddc info to the pc
06:55
<ogra>
you can either use horizontal and vertical refresh rates hardcoded in lts.conf for that client, or live with 800x600 login screen in case you use gnome and just set a higher res in the desktop
06:56
(which should just use xrandr after login)
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06:56
<joshiggins_>
running xrandr in the terminal should show all the supported resolutions...;.
06:57
<ogra>
right
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06:59
<zamba>
yeah, that did the trick
07:00
starting with the monitor connected directly to the computer
07:00
and then switching back to the kvm
07:01
<ogra>
indeed, but is that feasable ?
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08:06
<rm-rf>
how do i "restart" ltsp so that i can pxe boot my thin clients from the image on the server?
08:07
i'm using ubuntu with ltsp, and i had to stop the nbd-server process to relocate my files
08:07
now i'm not sure how to get nbd-server started again since it complains about not having a config file
08:08
<ogra>
nbd-server never runs
08:09
nbd is served by inetd
08:09
restart openbds-inetd
08:09
*openbsd
08:13
<rm-rf>
thanks
08:13
also, is there a central place that ltsp logs to?
08:13
<ogra>
not by default
08:13
<rm-rf>
i'm having some wierdness with my clients connecting, but i'm not sure where i would get the logs to see what is going on
08:14
some users are able to login ok on the thin client, while others put their information in, and get kicked right back out to the login screen
08:14
have you seen that before?
08:14
<ogra>
check their ~/.xsession-errors file on the server
08:15
and also /var/log/auth.log
08:16
<rm-rf>
.xsession-errors is actually empty for the user that i just tried to login with
08:16
there are gtk errors in /var/log/auth.log
08:16
i'll pastebin them
08:16
<ogra>
o look at auth.log
08:19
<rm-rf>
http://pastebin.com/d375709a7
08:19
that's an error i was getting yesterday
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08:23
<ogra>
try removing the indicator applet for a test
08:24
<rm-rf>
remove it from the ltsp config?
08:24
<ogra>
no apt-get remove
08:24
<rm-rf>
ah
08:24
<ogra>
you can install it later again
08:24
<rm-rf>
ok
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08:38
<sbalneav>
Morning all
08:39
<alkisg1>
Good afternoon
08:40
Is there any project similar to nubae's fat clients (=offering remote hard disk only, shared /home, and 1 place for updates), but not based on ltsp?
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08:50
<sbalneav>
I really need to put the screws to nebae to get him to put his script upstream.
08:50
<alkisg>
Why didn't he so far? Not good enough code quality, or not enough time? :)
08:58
<Blinny>
Any gotchyas to be aware of when running wine off an Ubuntu 8.04 LTSP server?
09:01
<sbalneav>
alkisg: Certainly can't be code quality: We accept just about anything. Hell, even *my* code :)
09:01
<alkisg>
Blinny: some wine apps refresh the screen all the time, which can be a network bottleneck
09:01
sbalneav: heh... your code is mature like old wine :D
09:02
<ogra>
sbalneav, i'd strongly oppose code that fiddles with certain system defaults i.e. /etc/sudores
09:02
*sudoers
09:03
or doesnt properly handle conffiles
09:03
if its *only code* like in ltsp scripts that dont tweak the system, anything goes indeed :)
09:03
<Blinny>
alkisg: Right on. Thank you.
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09:05
<alkisg>
Blinny: I also had to run some apps with `nice`, because the used 100% cpu, so I could only use them for 2 users without `nice`. After putting `nice`, I could use them for ~10 users.
09:05
*they
09:06
<profesor>
hello
09:06
I have a problem running gcompris as a localapp in my ltsp setup.
09:06
<Blinny>
OK. I have one app in particular I'm looking at and it is a crappy VB accounting program. I hope it won't do much screen drawing.
09:06
Thank you alkisg.
09:07
<alkisg>
You're welcome.
09:07
<profesor>
it installs fine but it closes after like 10 seconds
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09:08
<profesor>
anyone?
09:08
<alkisg>
profesor: apps that depend on gconf don't run well as localapps
09:09
<profesor>
alkisg, really
09:09
<alkisg>
At least that's what I heard here.
09:09
dbus-related problems or something
09:09
<profesor>
theres no work around for that?
09:09
<ogra>
since when did gcompris start to use gconf ?
09:10
<ltsppbot>
"alkisg" pasted "apt-get install gcompris" (42 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/482
09:11
<alkisg>
Depends: gcompris-data (= 8.4.4-1.1ubuntu4), libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.20.0), libc6 (>= 2.4), libcairo2 (>= 1.2.4), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.4.0), libfreetype6 (>= 2.2.1), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.16.0), libgstreamer0.10-0 (>= 0.10.0), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.16.0), libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.22.0), libpython2.6 (>= 2.6), libsqlite3-0 (>= 3.6.10), libx11-6, libxml2 (>= 2.6.27), libxxf86vm1, python (>= 2.5) | python-pysqlite2, python-gtk2, gstreamer0.10-audiosink, gstreamer0.10-plugins-base
09:13
<ogra>
no gconf :)
09:13
<profesor>
ogra, so what could be the problem?
09:14
<ogra>
no idea
09:14
<alkisg>
Well, apt-get wants to install gconf, so one of the dependencies also depends on gconf
09:14
"the following packages will be installed"...gconf2 gconf2-common
09:14
<profesor>
Im running a lab of 22 terminals and gcompris is pretty hard on my server
09:15
im running openoffice,tuxpaint and scribus locally with no problems.
09:18
<sbalneav>
profesor: I don't think anyone here has tested gcompris locally, so you'll probably have to do some digging yourself.
09:18
<profesor>
sbalneav, I am digging :D thats why im here :-)
09:20
<alkisg>
profesor, have you tried with LDM_DIRECTX=true? Better performance at the cost of lower security.
09:21
<profesor>
alkisg, where do I set that? and what kind of performance should I expect?
09:21
<alkisg>
I haven't tried gcompris much; my students are older than that. You put LDM_DIRECTX=true in lts.conf. Let me link you to the docs...
09:22
<profesor>
alkisg, its weird that just by having gcompris open my network speed stays lock at 7.5MB/s and thats with students not using it at the time
09:23
<alkisg>
profesor: gcompris-data gcompris-sound-en gconf2 gconf2-common
09:23
AH
09:23
damn chromium
09:23
I meant http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#id2699167
09:24
profesor: it's possible that gcompris draws some part of it constantly, and causes network usage... but I'm just speculating, didn't use it much.
09:24
Or it may be playing some sound
09:29
<ogra>
it constantly plays some midi bg music usually
09:29
but that shouldnt even go to the network by default
09:30
<alkisg>
You mean as a localapp? I don't think the network bandwidth profesor said was about the localapp version... (being that it's only open for 10 secs...)
09:31
<profesor>
alkisg, when running from server
09:31
<alkisg>
Right.
09:32
<profesor>
i turned off the music and its running faster
09:32
thanks guys for pointing that out
09:32
i didnt notice because i had no speakers on the pcs
09:32
hahaha
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09:36
<alkisg>
Heh
09:36
profesor: do try with LDM_DIRECTX=True in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf ...
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09:39
<profesor>
thanks alkisg will try it in the next class change
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09:40
<profesor>
be back later.
09:40
thanks for your help. you guys rock.
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09:55
<Blinny>
I hate to ask this seemingly dumb question.. but how do I edit the Applications menu so that it applies to all users?
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09:56
<joachim>
hi
09:56
<tstafford_>
put the .desktop shortcut file in /usr/share/applications
09:56
or /usr/local/share/applications would be better actually
09:56
<Blinny>
I need to change the location of an item. Is that contained in the .desktop file?
09:57
<bieb>
isnt it /Desktop and /.config of the users home dir?
09:58
<Blinny>
(specifically, moving Tuxtype from games to education - I'm thinking I just change the 'Categories' entry in the .desktop?
09:58
<ogra>
should work, yes
09:58
thugh be aware that if you edit files in /usr/share/applications they get overwritten on package updates
09:59
<Blinny>
Gotchya. Thanks tstafford_, ogra
10:02
<joachim>
Hi, anyone has time to listen to my problem? we'v done a great ammount of research already, its just one small thing that doesn't want to work
10:02
<Blinny>
joachim: Don't ask to ask just ask the question (;
10:03
<joachim>
kk ok :p just don't want to be annoying, guess i failed but anyway :P
10:03
its about running firefox in a screenscript
10:04
its weird thing we have. we managed to go a long way, and if we do start a xterm in X, we can fire up firefox without problems
10:04
but if we try to replace the /usr/bin/xterm with /usr/bin/firefox in the screenscript, it doesn't work
10:04
so we tried using /usr/bin/xterm -e /usr/bin/firefox but that also fails
10:05
<Blinny>
joachim: Please pastebin your script
10:05
<joachim>
we now managed to "solve" it by putting /usr/bin/firefox in the .bashrc of root but thats kinda dirty :(
10:05
sec ssh'ing to server
10:06
<Blinny>
and tell us the desired behavior
10:06
<ogra>
joachim, did you look at the ubuntu kiosk plugin how its done there ?
10:06
its pretty outdated but the principle shouldnt have changed
10:07
<joachim>
done a lot of research, do you mean the linux-update-image --kiosk thing?
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10:07
<ogra>
no
10:08
<vmlintu>
Any ltsp-upstream maintainers here? (lp:~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk)
10:09
<joachim>
Blinny: http://pastebin.com/m6b4adec9
10:09
<ogra>
joachim, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowtoWriteLTSP5Plugins has an example plugin at the bottom that configures a webkiosk setup
10:09
<joachim>
what we do is, screen_06 = xgeneric and then give an app with a global XGENERIC variable
10:09
<ogra>
vmlintu, many, why ?
10:10
<joachim>
seen that ogra
10:10
<ltsplogbot>
I don't know who that is.
10:10
<vmlintu>
ogra: I'm just wondering how to get small fixes included.. e.g. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/412034
10:10
<ogra>
vmlintu, configure-x.sh is obsolete since over a year
10:11
should be removed from the code tree actually
10:11
<joachim>
and Blinny, that script works fine for lets say, vlc or some other app
10:11
<ogra>
its a freaky insane script i wrote as workaround until we have the proper mechanism ready
10:11
<joachim>
and if we do it manually from a shell it also works
10:11
<vmlintu>
oh, I saw it in the tree and thought that it'd be still in use..
10:12
<ogra>
vmlintu, what ubuntu release is that ?
10:12
<vmlintu>
ogra: I'm using 8.04
10:12
<ogra>
its definately not used in jaunty and i think not even in intrepid
10:12
oh, k
10:12
<vmlintu>
ogra: I checked the ltsp-trunk tree after noticing this and thought that it'd be still in use
10:13
<Blinny>
joachim: I'm in over my head there. You're basically trying a FF-only kiosk setup?
10:13
<ogra>
its not actually, input devices are handled by hal nowadays and x settings through xrandr
10:14
<joachim>
Blinny: we use the clients to play a flash in fullscreen on a screen. The flash is centralized on a server
10:14
<vmlintu>
ogra: now that I remember, is this still relevant with newer releases: http://marc.info/?l=ltsp-developer&m=123565544122688&w=2
10:15
<joachim>
so i created a firefox profile to launch it, fullscreen. And that all works
10:15
<vmlintu>
ogra: sorry, old mail
10:15
<joachim>
last step we now have to succeed is starting firefox automated
10:16
<Blinny>
This is probably the Wrong Way to do it, but couldn't you just throw your FF script in /etc/X11/Xsession.d ?
10:16
<joachim>
no interaction with the firefox is done. It just has to open go fullscreen then load the flash
10:16
<ogra>
vmlintu, committed your fix and pushed it ...
10:17
<vmlintu>
ogra: the one that used BOOTIF ?
10:18
<joachim>
Blinny: first time i stumble on these scripts
10:18
<ogra>
vmlintu, no, the one you asked about first
10:19
<joachim>
thing is we use our build also for other things so we really want to make some sort of profile
10:19
<Blinny>
joachim: I put scripts in there to rsync homes post-login but pre-desktop
10:19
<ogra>
vmlintu, the NIC thing is a real borken design
10:19
<Blinny>
joachim: Ah.
10:19
<vmlintu>
ogra: http://marc.info/?l=ltsp-developer&m=123568785721668&w=2
10:19
<ogra>
vmlintu, nowadays ltsp would load all modules for all NICs anyway
10:19
yes, thats broken as i said
10:20
<Blinny>
joachim: I think having a separate kiosk chroot is the way to go then.
10:20
<joachim>
like on the ubuntu wiki?
10:20
<Blinny>
Yes.
10:20
<ogra>
vmlintu, the modules will be loaded anyway with modern OSes, your problem lies elsewhere
10:20
<joachim>
so that means i'd get a /opt/ltsp/kiosk chroot
10:20
<ogra>
vmlintu, which i think stgraber solved in karmic by using udhcpc
10:20
<vmlintu>
ogra: the later link was the actual patch that was going to ask
10:21
<joachim>
maybe rather stupid question, where do i define the client to not boot the i386 but that plugin?
10:21
<vmlintu>
ogra: I first copied the NIC= fix that was really bad idea
10:21hanthana has joined #ltsp
10:21
<ogra>
its pointless, the prob is that you need to tell ipconfig which NIC to use
10:21
the module is loaded anyway
10:22
<vmlintu>
ogra: hmm.. this is not about loading the correct module: http://marc.info/?l=ltsp-developer&m=123568785721668&w=2
10:23
ogra: it's about choosing the correct interface
10:23
<ogra>
no, the first one is
10:23
and thats loaded anyway
10:23
the second one is solved by stgraber's inclusion of udhcpc
10:24
<vmlintu>
ogra: sorry, I never meant to send the link to the first one.. I was too fast copy-pasting
10:24
<Blinny>
joachim: /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf -- I believe you want option root-path but that is a guess. There may be a lts.conf way of doing it
10:24
<ogra>
vmlintu, ah
10:24
<joachim>
ah through dhcp... k
10:24
<ogra>
vmlintu, well, talk to stgraber, i think the fix of the second link is included in his changes
10:24
<joachim>
maybe we'll just have to start the firefoxes manually in that case :( its strage that we can fire them from shell but not from script
10:25
<ogra>
joachim, depends on your distro
10:25
ubuntu doesnt use root-path at all
10:25
there you define it in inetd.conf
10:25
<joachim>
the dhcp is on another (centos server)
10:26
<vmlintu>
ogra: ok, I'll check that with stgraber.. thanks!
10:26
<Blinny>
ogra: Is that true for LTS hardy as well? (no root-path directive)
10:27
<ogra>
since gutsy
10:27
since we dropped NFS by default
10:27
<Blinny>
Ah. Dig. Thank you.
10:28
<vmlintu>
ogra: for the future - what is the best place to send patches? ltsp-developer / launchpad / somewhere else?
10:28
<joachim>
anyway, ltsp is rather cool :) we v solved loads of funny tasks with it already :)
10:28
<ogra>
launchpad as bugs is fine
10:29
<zamba>
does anyone know of a set of programs or suite for remotely powering on and off computers? using WoL and ssh?
10:30
<Blinny>
zamba: I think iTalc do that if properly configured.
10:30
<zamba>
i have written some small scripts myself which i've set up in crontab, but i want more flexibility and ease of use (for someone non-technical - so a web program would be perfect)
10:30
<Blinny>
:s;do;does
10:31
<zamba>
oh, interesting
10:31
thanks
10:31
this uses vnc?
10:31
<ogra>
zamba, i think the ubuntu ltsp documentation on the wiki has a howto from Lns for that
10:31
<alkisg>
vmlintu: there where 2 changes related to BOOTIF, one in debian (which handles ipconfig) and one ubuntu-only so far, which solves it with udhcp
10:31
Karmic handles it out of the box, backports are available for jaunty AFAIK
10:32
<vmlintu>
alkisg: do you know which package includes the fixes?
10:33
<ogra>
ltsp-client or -core should have it
10:33
<zamba>
Blinny: that uses vnc, right?
10:33
ogra: where do i find the "ubuntu ltsp documentation"?
10:33
http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Ubuntu ?
10:34
<vmlintu>
ok..
10:34
<ogra>
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AutomatedTCShutodwn
10:34
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AutomatedTCStartup
10:34
heh, the first one has a funny typo :)
10:34
<zamba>
hehe
10:34
<alkisg>
vmlintu: ltsp-client-core: /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-premount/udhcp
10:35
<vmlintu>
For automatic TC shutdown, autopoweroff is quite nice: http://autopoweroff.sourceforge.net/
10:36
alkisg: thanks, I'll test that with some funky hardware.. I'm just waiting the switch to karmic with some horror..
10:37
<zamba>
ogra: yeah, that's basically the same wheel as i've invented.. it uses WoL in the same way
10:37
<ogra>
vmlintu, karmic is fun :)
10:37
<zamba>
but italc looks very interesting, for other reasons
10:38
Blinny: does it use vnc?
10:39
<vmlintu>
ogra: it's actually X that I'm worried about as all automatic configuration breaks when using document cameras between the tc and monitor..
10:39
<Blinny>
zamba: I don't believe so.
10:40
Hrm. Maybe it does.
10:40
<zamba>
very interesting
10:40
<Blinny>
Ah yes. Appears it does.
10:40
<zamba>
this would be an easy sell for our teachers having students at courses
10:41
it's a vnc server, yeah
10:41
i have to test this in my environment..
10:41
<Blinny>
If you're in the classroom, you may want to consider fl_teachertool
10:41
<zamba>
thanks for the hint
10:41
it's not LTSP clients
10:41
.. yet
10:42
and italc has the other benefit of being in the repositories
10:42
<ogra>
an dbeng cross platform/cross purpose
10:43
*and being
10:43
<Blinny>
*Nod*
10:43
<ogra>
you can crontrol windows systems with it too
10:43
or control linux *From* windows
10:43
it controls workstations as well as thin clients
10:43Ahmuck-Sr has joined #ltsp
10:43
<Blinny>
...not so much on remote servers over a WAN though..
10:44
<zamba>
anyway.. off to install it.. i'll report back to base :)
10:44
<Blinny>
remote control is no good over a T1
10:45
<zamba>
the only potential problem i can see is that teachers use a projector.. and this will invariably also project the monitor stuff, i guess..
10:45
unless the driver is able to just project a single workspace..
10:45
hm
10:45
<Ahmuck-Sr>
it is
10:45
<zamba>
cool
10:45
i'll need some more information about that as well
10:45
you mean italc or X?
10:46
<Ahmuck-Sr>
most projection capablities in a laptop allow one to use different workspaces specifiying which get's projected
10:47
i see someone fixed the double italc stuff
10:47
<zamba>
ok
10:57
anyone here installed iTalc?
11:00
i'm unable to launch it.. it complains about keys not generated.. but the installation process generated keys and i've also run ica -createkeypair manually afterwards
11:00
ah, nevermind
11:01
<Ahmuck-Sr>
well, partially i've got it
11:02
alkisg: where's the docs on iTalc?
11:03
<alkisg>
Ahmuck-Sr: google for: ubuntultsp italc
11:03
<zamba>
http://italc.sourceforge.net/documentation.php
11:03
<alkisg>
no, the ubuntu ones
11:03
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/iTalc
11:04
zamba: I think you need to logoff for ica to run
11:04
or, manually run: ica-launcher
11:04
<zamba>
yeah, trying now
11:09
cool.. got italc running..
11:09
on the master side
11:12
Ahmuck-Sr: i have to copy over the public key for the teacher to each and every computer i want to monitor, right?
11:16sene has quit IRC
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11:17
<alkisg>
zamba: no
11:18
<zamba>
ok.. i just did :p
11:18
<alkisg>
zamba: there are 2 ways to install italc in ltsp. One is on the server; you don't need to do anything apart from apt-get install italc-master.
11:18
<zamba>
i'm actually not in a thin client environment
11:18
<alkisg>
zamba: ah, ok
11:18
<zamba>
fat clients here
11:18
<alkisg>
then you do need to copy the keys :)
11:19
nubae's script? then you need to copy the keys to the fati386 chroot...
11:19
<zamba>
hm?
11:22
<Ahmuck-Sr>
alkisg: explain more ... one on the server, assuming that the server is not in a ltsp environment?
11:22irule has quit IRC
11:22
<zamba>
i'm just curious as to which files to copy
11:22
and does this use ssh?
11:22
<alkisg>
If not on a ltsp environment, then there's only 1 way to do it, the way zamba did.
11:22
I.e. install it to all pcs and copy the keys
11:23
<zamba>
alkisg: install italc-master to all clients?
11:23
<alkisg>
No, the client
11:23
<zamba>
alkisg: i only need italc-client, right?
11:23
ok.. but which keys should be copied?
11:23
<alkisg>
The master is only needed in the controlling pc
11:23
<zamba>
all? or just the public ones?
11:23
<Ahmuck-Sr>
if i'm on a ltsp environment then i need server and client
11:23
<alkisg>
the "other" keys. See the wiki page, there are details there.
11:24
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/iTalc
11:24
<zamba>
i see it uses port 5800 (which is java's vnc implementation if using vnc)
11:25
<alkisg>
5800 and 5900
11:25
control port and data port
11:25
<zamba>
i guess 5900 gets opened once i'm connected?
11:25
because i only see 5800 listening now
11:25
on the computer in question
11:25
but what "other" keys are you talking about?
11:26
that link you gave me provided no hints to any other keys
11:26
and it's only related to LTSP
11:26
"Especially if you re-create keys regularly (e.g. for security-reasons) you'll get annoyed with copying public keys to each client. Under Linux you can solve this issue by making /etc/italc/keys a symlink to a directory inside a NFS/SMB-mount or AFS-tree."
11:27
<alkisg>
Ah yeah it was changed since I last read it
11:27
<zamba>
that's from the italc's wiki
11:28
<Ahmuck-Sr>
so on ltsp i need to install the client portion in chroot as well
11:28
<alkisg>
Ahmuck-Sr: on ltsp, there are 2 methods to install italc. The simple one is: sudo apt-get install italc-master. Nothing else.
11:28
The second one is more difficult, on the chroot, see the wiki page for details.
11:29
<zamba>
the documentation for windows is superiour to the linux one in the italc wiki
11:29
that's a first
11:29
<alkisg>
zamba: I have these: tcp 0 0 *:5800 *:* LISTEN 7201/ica // tcp 0 0 *:5900 *:* LISTEN 7204/ica
11:29
<zamba>
alkisg: i only have 5800
11:30
<alkisg>
Do you have vnc server or vino server running?
11:30
<zamba>
nope, not as far as i know
11:30
<alkisg>
Maybe it only opens when it's used, I don't know.. I just used it half an hour ago.
11:30
<Ahmuck-Sr>
alkisg: how do i determine what method to install ?
11:31
<zamba>
alkisg: but again, how and which keys do i install?
11:31
<alkisg>
Ahmuck-Sr: the simple method only works after the users logon, so you can't handle the pc when it's in ldm
11:31
zamba: this line from the wiki should be enough: scp -r /etc/italc/keys USER@server2:/etc/italc/
11:32
<Ahmuck-Sr>
ah, ok
11:32
<zamba>
that copies the private keys too, do we want that?
11:32
<Ahmuck-Sr>
so ... i did the server side only, and it failed to work
11:32
<alkisg>
Ahmuck-Sr: but it also uses less ram, so e.g. if your clients only have 64 or 128 mb ram, you don't have much options...
11:32
zamba: permissions are also copied, so it should trouble you much...
11:32
<zamba>
ah, sure
11:33
<alkisg>
I.e. students won't be able to read the teacher keys
11:33
*shouldn't
11:33
<Ahmuck-Sr>
no iTalc service running. is this an error ?
11:33
<alkisg>
Ahmuck-Sr: you need to logoff and logon again for ica-launcher to run. Or, run it manually.
11:33
<Ahmuck-Sr>
server side uses less ram?
11:33
<alkisg>
Yes, it only uses server ram
11:34
<Ahmuck-Sr>
i ran it manually, but no go
11:34
<zamba>
cool!
11:34
<Ahmuck-Sr>
so doing the client side uses client side ram as well
11:34
<alkisg>
What did ica-launcher tell you?
11:34
<zamba>
got it working
11:34
aiai
11:34
<alkisg>
zamba: cool :)
11:34
<Ahmuck-Sr>
let me log out first and try again
11:34rjune_ has quit IRC
11:34* alkisg 'll be back in 10'.
11:35rjune_ has joined #ltsp
11:39
<knipwim>
can someone close bug 411107, this has been solved
11:40
johnny committed a patch for that yesterday
11:42
<johnny>
i can close it
11:42
knipwim, you should also fork the overlay
11:42
and let me pull it
11:42
fork it on github if you want
11:42
or gitorious
11:42
whatever you like
11:43
<knipwim>
http://git.flowledge.nl/?p=ltsp-overlay.git;a=summary
11:44
<ogra>
johnny, note that LP can pull git trees, if it helps you could create a distro tree in under the team, thats mergeable then in ltsp-trunk
11:45
(one that mirrors a gentoo git)
11:46
s/in//
11:46
<johnny>
nah
11:46
this is the overlay code
11:46
not the ltsp code
11:46
overlay as in repository..
11:46
it's the packaging code
11:47
knipwim, duh.. you already had that right? :)
11:47
lol
11:47
sorry :(
11:47
<ogra>
ah
11:47
<johnny>
knipwim, you run repoman before committing right?
11:48
<knipwim>
ehh
11:48
<johnny>
repoman full even..
11:48
we can't use stuff you don't repoman
11:48
knipwim, last night i dropped the ~ udev and fuse
11:48
finally! :)
11:49
<knipwim>
i saw, nice
11:49
<johnny>
knipwim, make sure you have gentoolkit and gentoolkit-dev
11:49
<knipwim>
for the repoman
11:49
<johnny>
yes
11:50
<knipwim>
i thought i did it
11:50
<johnny>
thought you did repoman?
11:50
also.. you must do repoman full :)
11:51
what exactly are these examples ?
11:51
<knipwim>
hmmm, i guess no repoman has been done on the originals
11:52
i gives me errors on code i didn't touch
11:53fotanus has joined #ltsp
11:53
<johnny>
yes.. i did repoman originally
11:53
but not since last october
11:53
since i haven't had a gentoo box since then
11:53
i did a few necessary unrepoman fixes
11:54
<knipwim>
amongst other: IUSE.invalid net-misc/ltsp-server/ltsp-server-9999.ebuild: dhcp
11:54
<johnny>
i think the rules got stricter
11:55
hmm.. we probably need to describe those flags in the proper place?
11:55
is that what it is whining about?
11:55
<knipwim>
yeah in metadata.xml
11:55
<johnny>
ahh.. i remember
11:55
at the time i was waiting for the metadata.xml for use.local.desc stuff to shake out
11:56
s/for/vs/
12:01
<knipwim>
check, it's in my todo list
12:01
i'll make an extra repoman check commit
12:03
<johnny>
i don't think we can rely on repoman 100% tho, does it succeed completely now?
12:03
i think there are some issues that can't be marked as complete just because it's in an overlaly
12:03
altho maybe they relaxed it a bit now
12:03garymc has joined #ltsp
12:03
<knipwim>
i think i can solve all issues
12:04
<garymc>
Hi guys. anyone know how I would setup Ubuntu 9.04 so it utelises 3 rack servers?
12:04
ubuntu LTSP
12:04
ive got ubuntu 9.04 LTSP on one server now working great
12:05
would like it to utelise the full power of 3 combined servers
12:05
is this possible? and how?
12:06
maybe im jumping ahead of myself
12:08
<Ahmuck-Sr>
garymc: yes it's possible
12:08
<garymc>
how?
12:08
<Ahmuck-Sr>
ltsp does load balancing
12:08
it's in the docs
12:08
in the topic
12:08
<garymc>
ok.... im new to all this you see, only just touched a server a couple of weeks ago
12:08
how do i link them. just plug it into the ethernet switch?
12:08bobby_C has joined #ltsp
12:09
<Ahmuck-Sr>
http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#session-dispatching
12:10
http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#id2699488
12:10
<garymc>
does that mean i have to install Ubuntu LTSP on each server
12:11
<Ahmuck-Sr>
multiple servers is not for the timid
12:11
<garymc>
then the thin client has to select one each time?
12:11
<Ahmuck-Sr>
r u trying to do clients or multiple server?
12:11
<garymc>
I just want them to share resources
12:11
<Ahmuck-Sr>
what kind of resources?
12:11
<garymc>
CPU hard drives
12:11
<Ahmuck-Sr>
like a bewolf ltsp cluster?
12:11
<garymc>
you know spread the work load
12:11
maybe
12:12
<Ahmuck-Sr>
read the docs. this is something you MUST do before attempting multiple servers
12:12
<garymc>
ok
12:12
cluster servers?
12:12
<johnny>
what about ltsp cluster? how's that doing?
12:12
<Ahmuck-Sr>
those links i posted are specific for what your tryin gto do
12:13
<garymc>
ok
12:13
<Ahmuck-Sr>
https://wiki.stgraber.org/LTSP-Cluster
12:13
as well as that one, to confuse you a bit more
12:13
johnny: i didn't realize that cluster servers were so far along
12:14
<Blinny>
Do we have session failover?
12:14
<johnny>
session failover?
12:15
<Blinny>
One server dies, session is migrated to another.
12:15
<ogra>
no
12:15
<alkisg>
Wow
12:15
<ogra>
but load balancin on login
12:16
<Blinny>
Right on.
12:16
<ogra>
thats what ltsp-cluster does
12:16
<Blinny>
Yeah I'm thinking more drdb stuff
12:16
<ogra>
that would require some evil hacks to X :)
12:16
<Blinny>
I'm sure.
12:17* ogra &
12:17
<Blinny>
But it ain't a bad destination to have on the long-term roadmap.
12:17
<alkisg>
only X? what about the whole hardware state?
12:18* alkisg doesn't think that's easily feasible without some kind of VM
12:18
<Blinny>
There's a lot involved. http://www.drbd.org/home/what-is-ha/
12:19
<johnny>
things will become feasible as the drivers are migrated to the kernel hopefully
12:19
and the server code is cleansed
12:20garymc has quit IRC
12:20
<alkisg>
Well, if the failed machine has 4 Gb RAM and the target machine 2 Gb, how's the migration going to work?
12:21
If process A allocated 64 Mb textures on videoram, and the target card only has 32 mb vram?
12:23
<Blinny>
Yeah I don't think you want to do that. (;
12:24
I think that's what is commonly referred to as putting 10 gallons of shit in a 5 gallon bucket.
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12:33
<johnny>
you're talking about 2 different things..
12:34
moving the session to another server, or logging in as a different client to the same session
12:35
i can't wait til all drivers support kms..
12:35
<Blinny>
Won't all sessions eventually be persistent?
12:38
Ideally all sessions would work like screen/NX scripts
12:39
Other than actual implementation, the limiting factor is of course RAM, but you could imagine a to-disk session hibernation.
12:39
<sbalneav>
If someone writes it, sure :)
12:40
<Blinny>
Exactly.
12:40
<sbalneav>
You volunteering? :)
12:40
<Blinny>
I haven't written C in a long time, but I'd guess that, without knowing X internals, the project would have far-reaching fingers.
12:41
It would be conceptually easier if every app was stateful.
12:41
(a weak example of this being Firefox's saved tabs)
12:42
That way you could close all the apps pre-session hibernation and just fire them back up upon session wakeup
12:42
sbalneav: As of right now, I'm more of the useless idea guy type. (;
12:44
<sbalneav>
I already have all the detachability I've ever wanted with screen :)
12:44
<Blinny>
Right.
12:45
You could say the same with shared /home's
12:45
<johnny>
we need more work at the X level for sure
12:46
but it's happening.. just at a very slow pace.. due to the lack of qualified people working on it
12:46
people are attacking the problem at different levels
12:46
<Blinny>
Steep learning curve.
12:46
<johnny>
check out the wayland X server for example
12:47
Blinny, and of course.. if more apps go web.. even locally hosted.. there is even less to do
12:47joachim has quit IRC
12:47
<johnny>
i look at the apps that are open on my desktop.. and most of them could be replaced by a proper web application.. if there were more interaction with the desktop and web server.. like mail notifications and event notifcations
12:48
atm.. i have terminal, evolution, gajim, and firefox open.. that's about it
12:49
of course.. games and OOo will be a bit harder to do online.. but seem to be coming closer every day..
12:49
<Blinny>
Right. Well, eventually the entire session will go into the cloud. Sure Chrome is nice but when I get bandwidth I don't want moving parts at home either.
12:49
<johnny>
?
12:49
<Blinny>
Basically, LTSP as a service
12:50
<johnny>
there are companies doing that already
12:50
altho not using ltsp
12:50
<Blinny>
Doing that well?
12:50
<johnny>
i think litl is doing it..
12:50
and some company that sells little gentoo computers.. i forgot what they are called
12:50
<Blinny>
As you say though, the big problem is local devices, games...
12:50
<johnny>
it's hard to know what litl is really doing.. they are still in stealth mode
12:50
local devices is easy
12:51
it's making sure a remote application can do something with them that is hard :)
12:51
but we're moving in that direction with gudev
12:51
<Blinny>
Right on.
12:51
<johnny>
games are probably going to take the longest
12:52
until we all have fiber
12:52
<sbalneav>
My sessions will never, ever, EVER go into the cloud.
12:52
<Blinny>
Dunno. There's been a few companies I've read about that are going that way now.
12:52
<johnny>
sbalneav, even if the cloud is self hosted?
12:52
<sbalneav>
Any computing we do will have to stay here in this building
12:52
<johnny>
sbalneav, sure.. that's a feasible option.. and probably the best for most
12:52
<Blinny>
sbalneav: Is that based on the assumption that we won't have strong encryption?
12:52
<sbalneav>
It's not a "cloud" if it's all your own machines. :)
12:53
<johnny>
sorry.. using cloud .. and web based interchangeably
12:53vagrantc has joined #ltsp
12:53
<johnny>
but it'll be no different for your users
12:53
except for the url they type in
12:53
<Blinny>
Making the PC an appliance would free up a LOT of money, and given the nature of 'the cloud', most of it would be recurring costs.
12:54
<sbalneav>
Blinny: That's based on the fact that judges ask us chain-of-custody questions, and "Well, your Honour, the photos of the murder victime were out... ON THE CLOUD" would get me 10 years in jail :)
12:54
<johnny>
Blinny, well if you host the apps locallly you'll still save money
12:54
<Blinny>
johnny: If you have the apps
12:54
<johnny>
the apps are coming
12:54
<Blinny>
sbalneav: Right
12:54
sbalneav: And a trust in the persistence of the cloud too
12:54
<johnny>
especially since you're seeing native coe compliation of js , you'll even have decent games :)
12:55
code*
12:56
<Blinny>
onLive - that's the streaming game crap I was thinking of. That and Gaikai
12:57* vagrantc looks puzzled to see work on configure-x.sh
12:57
<Blinny>
vagrantc: 11:12AM EST vmlintu fixed a bug
12:58tux_440volt has joined #ltsp
12:58
<vagrantc>
vagrantc: sure, it's just ... something i was expecting to see removed or just sit there forever
12:59
<Blinny>
It's still used in Ubuntu's current LTS, no?
12:59
<vagrantc>
don't believe so
12:59
oh, right
12:59
but LTS doesn't get new code at this point
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13:25
<jammcq>
hello friends
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13:39
<rjune_>
!j
13:39
<ltspbot>
rjune_: "j" is jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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13:40
<garymc>
Im not having any luck with this server clustering idea
13:40
is there a self explanitory document anywhere?
13:40
<ogra>
vagrantc, i just wanted to be nice to a contributor :)
13:41
<vagrantc>
ogra: :)
13:41
<garymc>
Hey Ogra
13:41
you know an easy'ish way I can cluster my 3 rack servers together as if they where one?
13:41
<ogra>
no
13:42
<garymc>
hmmm
13:42
<ogra>
as i said 1.5h ago, you can do load balancing
13:42
but things like beowulf are not supported in linux 2.6
13:42
<garymc>
ive got 3 rack servers all the same spec and would love to utelise the CPU and Hard drives all as one
13:43
ohh right sorry
13:43
it was you who said load balancing
13:43
<johnny>
hmm.. ltsp cluster?
13:43
<ogra>
right
13:43
<garymc>
yes johnny thought since i got 3 rack servers, i should use all the power of them
13:43
some how
13:44
<johnny>
well.. you're gonna have to play around with ltsp-cluster
13:44
i've personally never used it
13:44
<garymc>
so how would i install in
13:44* ogra would put all his disks into one of the machines and make it a fileserver, netboot the two others and make them ltsp appservers
13:44
<garymc>
apt-get
13:45
ogra sounds good too
13:45
<ogra>
its a very distinct and not an easy setup though
13:45
<garymc>
hmm ok
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13:46
<garymc>
ive heard theres a debian based beowolf installation?
13:46
<ogra>
there are ltsp-cluster docs somewhere on the net
13:46
<garymc>
ogra: im looking for them now
13:46
<ogra>
beowulf means yu need to compile your own kernel
13:46
and know a lot about low level stuff
13:46
<garymc>
ok i cant do that
13:46
<ogra>
and you will need to switch to a non distro kernel
13:47
since there is no official support for any beowulf stuff in recent kernels
13:47
<garymc>
so i dont want that
13:47
<ogra>
likely
13:47
wait for stgraber to drop by, he maintains ltsp-cluster
13:47Ahmuck-Sr has joined #ltsp
13:47
<ogra>
until he shows up, read all you can get your hands on about it
13:48
so you understand what you talk about once he is here ;)
13:49
<garymc>
ok thanks
13:49
i may have to come back 2morow
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14:09
<alkisg>
If a classroom has e.g. 12 powerful PCs but no server, is there any way to maintain a linux installation on one of them, and netboot the others and let them use the same file system? (with nfs & some other magic, I imagine...) Something like nubae's fat client script, but with no chroot involved?
14:10Ahmuck-Sr has quit IRC
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14:15
<EDinNY>
alkisg, you still here?
14:15
<alkisg>
EDinNY: yup?
14:15
<jammcq>
EDinNY: ?
14:16
<EDinNY>
hi jammcq!
14:16
<jammcq>
hey, how's it goin?
14:16
<EDinNY>
good
14:18
<sbalneav>
Hello Ed
14:18
<EDinNY>
hi
14:18
how you been?
14:19
<sbalneav>
Still here :)
14:19
<vagrantc>
alkisg: just use a fat client process ... what do you really gain by trying to avoid it?
14:19
<sbalneav>
Right side of the grass and all
14:19
<jammcq>
sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
14:19
<sbalneav>
Hey jammcq
14:19
vagrantc: So... wanna help me be sabayon maintainer for Debian? :)
14:19
<alkisg>
vagrantc: much simpler maintainance. Maintaing programs into a chroot requires command line and is difficult for a teacher...
14:19
<EDinNY>
they don't do linuxworld in the northeast anymore
14:20
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: i'm thrilled at the idea of working with you on other projects, but unfortunately feel like i've got a bit too much on my plate already to take on a project i haven't ever used :)
14:20
sbalneav: but i suspect there would be other good folk to help you with it
14:21
<sbalneav>
Was that thrilled thrilled, or <sarcasm>thrilled</sarcasm> thrilled? :)
14:22
Yeah, looks like some of the others are willing to put up with me.
14:22
I'll take it on.
14:22
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: genuinely thrilled! you're great :)
14:22
<alkisg>
EDinNY: did you want something?
14:23
<sbalneav>
phhht. I'm an *sshole, and I know it. No need to butter me up :)
14:23
brb, got a hot vmware install going on. :)
14:23
<johnny>
but you're my favorite asshole
14:23
hehe
14:24
<vagrantc>
sbalneav: i'd *much* rather have to deal with your quirks than half a dozen other people i've had the misfortune to be stuck with lately.
14:32
<jammcq>
sbalneav: I'm *thrilled* just to know you
14:37* ogra humms t.t.t.thriiiiller ...
14:37
<jammcq>
yeah, exactly like that
14:38
<ogra>
sbalneav, did you say you try to become a DD and take over sabayon there ?
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14:42
<Ryan52>
sbalneav: I can help you probably.
14:44
<ogra>
sbalneav, or i can kick NCommander to be your sponsor as well
14:44
plenty of options :)
15:10Ahmuck-Sr has quit IRC
15:11
<alkisg>
Are the nfs exporting parameters there still valid for jaunty? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWithoutNFS#Reverting%20to%20NFS%20if%20you%20want%20to
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15:16
<coordinador>
hi
15:19
<sbalneav>
Hello
15:20
<johnny>
alkisg, should be
15:20
if not.. file a bug
15:20
<alkisg>
I'm trying to switch Jaunty to use NFS for TCs, do I need to change anything in pxelinux.cfg/default? root=/opt/ltsp/i386 and boot=nfs, something like that?
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15:20
<alkisg>
Thanks johnny, will do if I get it to boot :)
15:20
<coordinador>
somebody from diskless workstations?
15:21
<alkisg>
coordinador: you lost him by 2 minutes :) (11:14:18 μμ) CAN-o-SPAM έφυγε από το δωμάτιο (quit: "ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.13/2009073022]").
15:21
<coordinador>
:o
15:21
too bad, i needed to talk to him urgently
15:23
<johnny>
coordinador, stop asking in here
15:23
call them in the phone, send them emails
15:23
<coordinador>
ok johnny
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17:10
<zamba>
i've asked a similar question like this before, but i've modified my approach a bit since that time.. i want to give a certain set of users that log on my ltsp environment the same environment (eg. home directory).. different logins/usernames, but the same home directory.. how could this best be implemented?
17:12
<laga>
create a group for that set of users, create home directory, set owner, make home-directory group-writable, set home directory for affected users
17:12fotanus has quit IRC
17:12
<Ahmuck-Sr>
use a shared directory
17:12jammcq has quit IRC
17:13
<zamba>
Ahmuck-Sr: i can't use a shared home directory, can i?
17:13
Ahmuck-Sr: give every user the same home?
17:13
<Ahmuck-Sr>
do like laga said
17:14
<zamba>
huh?
17:14
laga said?
17:14
that even english words? :)
17:14
oh, irc nick
17:14
oh.. i didn't see his response.. my bad :D
17:15
another requirement.. the users shouldn't be able to modify it
17:15
i guess firefox and the like will go crazy if 50+ users all write to the same .mozilla structure
17:16
so i want a skeleton home and then a writable layer on top of that
17:16
if that makes any sense
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17:31
<zamba>
i guess not :)
17:31lejo_ has quit IRC
17:31
<tstafford_>
maybe unionfs or something like that
17:31
<zamba>
yeah, i've used that on my fat clients.. but how can i get that working with thin clients?
17:32
oh, nevermind..
17:32tstafford_ has quit IRC
17:32
<zamba>
my problem earlier was related to the fact that i wanted the same username for all users
17:36tstafford_ has joined #ltsp
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17:42
<laga>
zamba: use aufs to get a writable layer for each user? or set MOZILLA_HOME to /tmp/$bar, if a thing like $MOZILLA_HOME exists
17:43
<zamba>
laga: well, i can't do that for every potential application, so i need something that works no matter
17:43
<laga>
then use aufs
17:44
<johnny>
why do you want the same user names for all users
17:44
just use guestlogin
17:45
and create an account for each pc
17:45
done
17:45
<zamba>
johnny: i don't want that
17:45
<johnny>
why not
17:45
what you want is not easily achievable otherwise
17:45
<zamba>
johnny: no, i mean, i don't want the same username for all users :)
17:45
johnny: but my previous attempt at this had the requirement that all users should have the same username
17:46
not anymore
17:46
so i'll probably use the guest account login, as you mentioned
17:46
<johnny>
i just use guestlogin for all my terminals now
17:46
with ssh key
17:46
<zamba>
ssh key? oh?
17:46
what do you mean?
17:47
<johnny>
the default for guestlogin is to use the hostname for the username, and the password
17:47
but.. it will login with an ssh key instead if you have one
17:47
<zamba>
why isn't the hostname for username sufficient?
17:47
what extra benefit do you get from using the ssh key?
17:48
<johnny>
because a remote user logged in and ran an irc bouncer
17:48
<zamba>
aha
17:48F-GT has joined #ltsp
17:48
<zamba>
extra security, got it
17:48
<johnny>
you can of course do LDM_USERNAME and LDM_PASSWORD for each machine
17:49
<zamba>
yeah, but that's just extra hassle
17:49
<johnny>
in lts.conf
17:49
<laga>
johnny: and guestlogin is enabled by default on LTSP?
17:49
<johnny>
enabled? no..
17:49
<laga>
good
17:49
<zamba>
i just enable that globally in lts.conf
17:49
right?
17:49
<johnny>
yes
17:49
<zamba>
cool
17:49
<johnny>
LDM_AUTOLOGIN is what i have i think
17:49
guest just puts a button
17:50
<zamba>
and then i need to set up something with pam that automatically creates a aufs mount whenever the user logs on
17:50
or unionsfs
17:50
eh
17:50
unionfs, rather
17:50
<johnny>
why?
17:50ajohnson has joined #ltsp
17:50
<zamba>
to create the writable layer ontop of a read-only home directory
17:50
<johnny>
it won't be readonly
17:50
<zamba>
hm?
17:51
<johnny>
uhmm.. you said you wanted this for thin clients right?
17:51
<zamba>
it has to be read-only, since all users will have the same home directory as the skeleton
17:51
<johnny>
not the fat client
17:51
<zamba>
yup
17:51
<johnny>
no.. they don't need to
17:51
just create a user per machine
17:51
<zamba>
yeah, that i will
17:51
<johnny>
then you're good..
17:51
no aufs
17:51
<zamba>
all users should have the exact same home directory, at all times
17:52
<johnny>
that's not worth the hassle
17:52
i guarantee it
17:52
just rm -rf when they logout
17:52
and start over
17:52
<zamba>
no, i want something to be pre-configured
17:52
<johnny>
that's fine
17:52
you can do that
17:52
<zamba>
like home page and default fonts and so on
17:52
<johnny>
by editing skel files
17:52
and gconf defaults
17:52
that's all fine
17:52
or use sabayon
17:52
now that it finally works
17:53
<zamba>
my co-system administrator at 60 can't edit skel files
17:53
<johnny>
then have him use sabayon
17:53
<laga>
then fire him
17:53
<johnny>
get it from sbalneav's ppa
17:53* laga hides
17:53
<zamba>
laga: this is a grammar school.. i'm doing much more than what's expected by even setting up this
17:53
<johnny>
you can force the same settings.. even make many unchangable
17:53
<zamba>
laga: it's mostly pro bono :)
17:53
<johnny>
zamba, next time.. try not to imagine the solution ..
17:53
<laga>
zamba: i guess i'm too used to the term "administrator" meaning "trained professional" :)
17:54
<johnny>
focus ont the problem
17:54
because you were going to give yourself major complications
17:54
<zamba>
laga: hehe
17:54
<johnny>
instead of something that already exists that will solve your problem
17:54
<laga>
so, sorry if i caused any offense ;)
17:54
<stgraber>
good evening
17:55
<zamba>
laga: no worries :)
17:56
johnny: i find very little documentation and tutorials about sabayon..?
17:56
<johnny>
you do'nt need much
17:56
<zamba>
oh believe me.. i do
17:56
i'm quite sure sabayon will be more than capable of messing everything up
17:56
<johnny>
uhmm
17:56
then you can just delete the profile and start over
17:57
<zamba>
"profile"?
17:57
<johnny>
you configure it the same way you configure yoru own desktop
17:57
point and click
17:57
<zamba>
i don't like that word
17:57
i'm thinking windows
17:57
<johnny>
and that's fine
17:57
because that's how it works
17:57
<zamba>
well.. do you install sabayon on the server, all the clients or both?
17:57
or on some other standalone computer?
17:57
<johnny>
just the server
17:57
<zamba>
the ltsp server?
17:57
<johnny>
wherver your users are
17:58
<zamba>
what's the theory of operation?
17:58
and how do you control which users should get these settings applied?
17:58
<johnny>
open app.. add desktop icons, set some settings (just like if you were using it), save it
17:58
assign it to a user or group of users
17:58
and on login the profile is applied
17:58
you can even set defaults for OOo
17:59
<zamba>
and can you combine this with fat clients?
17:59
<johnny>
and some basic firefox things.. altho that part could be more advanced
17:59
no need
17:59
<zamba>
how is it enforced?
17:59
no need? what do you mean?
17:59
i'd like to have a consistent environment, even if some users are on thin clients and some are on fat
17:59
<johnny>
at that point you'd just copy a ro version of an already configured user account
17:59
<zamba>
yeah, and use unionfs
18:00
as i do today
18:00
<johnny>
you're insane
18:00
<zamba>
i have to
18:00
<johnny>
you could use nfs rw mounts for users..
18:00
<zamba>
i really need someone to look over my approach in more detail
18:00
<johnny>
you could configure the fatclients to use sabayon.. but you won't be easily able to customizer it from it
18:01
sabayon was meant to solve the problem you're trying to solve
18:01
go get it from sbalneav ppa and try it
18:01
it's note perfect, but it is still pretty useful
18:01
<zamba>
hm
18:02
what's pessulus?
18:02
<johnny>
the lockdown portion
18:02
stop people from changing backgroundsd
18:02
stuff like that
18:03
<zamba>
and it's integrated into sabayon?
18:03
<johnny>
yes
18:03
one reason it isn't perfect yet.. is we just now are recently starting to use policykit.. once that is widespread, sabayon will be able to lock down even more things
18:04
<zamba>
where's sbalneav's ppa?
18:04
<johnny>
launchpad
18:04
search his nick
18:04
my glasses broke.. i'm tryin to put em back together now..
18:05
<laga>
that sucks :(
18:05
<zamba>
johnny: cool, got it
18:06
going to try it on my laptop now
18:06
<johnny>
zamba, sabayon developed slowed down for quite some time.. but seems back on track these days
18:07
there were some bugs i didn't know how to solve at the X level.. but somebody finally figured it out
18:07
<zamba>
you're one of the developers?
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18:08
<johnny>
i was.. but then got stuck.. so got busy with other stuff
18:08
but sbalneav is doing a better job than i did.. he's much better at python than i am :)
18:08
<zamba>
hehe, ok
18:08
<johnny>
and he uses ltsp more often than i do., so he actually has more purpose
18:08
and ways to test
18:08
i only use 3 machines atm..
18:09
i got sabayon working enough for that
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18:09
<zamba>
ok, last problem
18:09
all users should have a central place to store their documents
18:10
the same, central place.. nevermind problems with users deleting each other's work.. that's a non-issue so far..
18:10
it has never happened and we've been running with a central storage for nearly 10 years now
18:10
but.. the way i've solved it is by mounting a cifs share through fstab
18:10
so it's mounted whenever the computer is up
18:12
and then i've changed the documents location to point to this share
18:12
how would you do it instead?
18:12
i feel quite confident that i'm doing it the wrong way (tm) here as well :)
18:13
my confidence isn't the best atm :)
18:13
<johnny>
that way seems just as good as any other to me
18:13
especially since you can customize it in one place.. /etc/xdg/user-dirs.default or whatever
18:14
<zamba>
for the thin clients i'll just mount the share at the server and point all users to the same place
18:14
<johnny>
yep.. via that file i mentioned
18:14
<zamba>
yeah, but not for all users, mind you :)
18:14
only a specific set of users
18:14
<johnny>
oh
18:14
well hopefully sabayon can help with that
18:15
<zamba>
it's User Profile Editor?
18:15
oh, it is
18:18
don't think it can.. unless changes i do in the file system is replicated as well?
18:19
<johnny>
all the changes you make are stored in a zip file
18:19
the only super valuable thing you can't store is a symlink sadly (
18:19
we need to move away from zipfiles..
18:20
<zamba>
and i also wanted to set the default font for OOo
18:20
<johnny>
that's possible
18:20
iirc
18:20
even the default save format
18:20
<zamba>
yeah, i've set that
18:20
but i can't find where to change the font
18:21
<johnny>
weird.. suprised that it would miss that one
18:21
<zamba>
i have "Use system font", that's all
18:21
<johnny>
i haven't looked at tat part in awile
18:21
and it is checked already?
18:21
if so.. try uncheck?
18:21
<zamba>
nope, not checked
18:22
<johnny>
guess you should make sure that bug is registered then
18:22
<zamba>
hah, and i crashed it
18:22
i don't think this is production safe just yet
18:23
nah, nevermind this
18:24
<johnny>
is there such a thing? lol
18:25
<zamba>
well, i managed to crash it twice :)
18:25
<johnny>
probably easily fixable..
18:26
<zamba>
when looking at the profile.. there's a lot entries that looks like files
18:26
are they moved over the home directory?
18:27
i have here a file that's called .config/user-dirs.dirs
18:27
am i able to go in and edit this file?
18:27
doubleclicking it let's me view the contents
18:28
but i'd like to edit it
18:29
<johnny>
yes
18:29
dirs isn't a registered extension.. probably should use open with
18:29
they should rename those .cfg or somethin
18:29
<zamba>
hm?
18:29
i'm in user profile editor now
18:29
i know how to edit a file :)
18:29
<johnny>
ok?
18:30
you said you'd like to edit it..
18:30
so do it then :)
18:30
<zamba>
one sec
18:30
screenshot coming up
18:31
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/3751/screenshotprofileelev.png
18:31
<johnny>
oh.. you don't edit them from there
18:31
<zamba>
it looks like the profile's contents
18:31
<johnny>
you edit them from within the profile
18:32
<zamba>
exactly.. so where do i edit them from?
18:32
oh?
18:32
<johnny>
from within the session rather
18:32
<zamba>
aha
18:32
<johnny>
that's just a list of what changed
18:32
<zamba>
cool
18:32
then you can pretty much do whatever you want
18:32
<johnny>
yep
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18:34
<johnny>
zamba, what i'd like to see out of the default install.. is for the profile to actually be a git/hg repository so you an deploy specific versions to users and roll back easy
18:34
<zamba>
hm.. arrow keys not working when editing a profile?
18:34
<johnny>
and rely on the inheritance from the vcs branches
18:34
i wish scott was here.. i'm not on ubuntu to actually use that ppa.. and i don't want to install it by hand on fedroa
18:35
<zamba>
and when i edit the profile now it looks different from when i first created it
18:35
i've lost all the different links under Places
18:35
like music, documents and so on
18:35
and the icons on the desktop have lost the icon
18:36
nah, giving this a rest
18:36
hopefully it'll all work out :)
18:53
<Beer30>
hey johnny... found a few more things that are keyworded
18:54
I had to add these to profile.qs to get it to build: sys-apps/util-linux, media-sound/pulseaudio, >=sys-fs/e2fsprogs-1.41.8, >=sys-libs/e2fsprogs-libs-1.41.8
18:55
I kept crappy notes, so I'm not sure what depended on what.
18:56
but I eventually did get the chroot to build. haven't had a chance to get any further testing in though.
19:00
trying to figure out a why for ltsp-build-client to NOT build the kernel as this takes forever to build. I've added kernel_sources=none to profile.qs, but fuse fails to build because there is no kernel .config... not sure how to get around this.
19:02
.... if you have any sugguestions, post them here... I'm off to get some dinner. be back after bit.
19:02
<johnny>
well the point of the cccache option is so building kernel is easy
19:02
enable ccache and you should only have to build it one time
19:03
anyways. you really do have to tell me what they depend on.. so we can actually do something about it.. please retry
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21:01
<Beer30>
johnny: running ltsp-build-chroot from scratch. I'll post my findings as I go.
21:05
>>> Emerging binary (1 of 1) sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-2.6.30-r4
21:05
* gentoo-sources-2.6.30-r4.tbz2 MD5 SHA1 size ;-) ... [ ok ]
21:05
openpty failed: 'out of pty devices'
21:09
<johnny>
is /dev/ stuff mounted?
21:09
in the chroot
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21:09
<johnny>
altho sorry i can't help much atm.. my glasses broke
21:09
so i can't look at screen for long
21:10
<Beer30>
dev is mounted, but there is nothing under dev/pts
21:10
oh no
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21:10
<Beer30>
doesn't seem to affect anything as it just continues on.
21:11
I have had to specifically bind mount /dev/pts in a chroot before.... I think it was when I was trying to use screen in the chroot.
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21:14
<Ahmuck-Sr>
what kind of lockdown does kde have?
21:17
<sbalneav>
http://www.enterprisenetworkingplanet.com/netos/article.php/3573736
21:17
kiosk mode
21:18
Ahmuck-Sr: and if you're interested, a new build of Sabayon's up
21:18
dgroos and Lns both are having success with it.
21:26
<Ahmuck-Sr>
is there a way to combine the two ?
21:26
i use kde apps as well in the lab
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21:53
<Beer30>
does the kde kiosk tool work for kde4? I've used it for kde3 and it works well.
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22:04
<Beer30>
Johnny: * ERROR: media-sound/pulseaudio-0.9.9-r54 failed.
22:13
build.log: http://pastebin.com/m7e073e53
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22:27
<Beer30>
scratch that pastebin link. it didn't take the whole log.... here is the complete log: http://pastebin.com/m16a5daec
22:30
there is a bug, but I can't find it right now, that states that pulseaudio-0.9.9 won't build with libtools-2.2, but >=pulseaudio-0.9.15 will. ~0.9.15-r2 ~0.9.15-r51 are keyworded.
22:31
here is the bug: http://bugs.gentoo.org/269936
22:31
and the quote from Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Pettteno: libtool 2.2 does not work with 0.9.9 just 0.9.15. If you have libtool 2.2
22:31
you're either ~arch (so you should get 0.9.15) or you unmasked libtool 2.2 (and
22:31
so you should also unmask 0.9.15).
22:34
the version of libtool that is installed in the chroot is: sys-devel/libtool-2.2.6a which is ~
22:41
adding media-sound/pulseaudio to the temporary overrides in profile.qs and re-running ltsp-build-client
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23:07
<johnny>
ahhmm.. how did a ~ get installed
23:07
that wasn't specified
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23:46
<alkisg>
Good morning
23:51
<Beer30>
johnny: that is what I want to know. I am going to build a gentoo box from scratch tomorrow at work and start all over from scratch.
23:52
btw, how do you get ltsp-build-client to use ccache? I don't think it has been using it all along.