IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 28 June 2017   (all times are UTC)

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06:42
<alkisg>
highvoltage: now that we don't have much manpower in ltsp, is there any point in keeping so many ldm-themes around, instead of having a single common one for all ltsp distros/flavors?
06:46
<highvoltage>
alkisg: not sure, depends what people want. I think a single theme will indeed be better.
06:46
<alkisg>
highvoltage: if you're ok with that, and vagrant's ok with that, I don't care much about what people will want. They can come here and maintain them if they want. :)
06:47
<highvoltage>
alkisg: +1
06:47
<alkisg>
A nice theme with an LTSP logo instead of ubuntu/debian etc is fine for me!
06:47
Cool, I'll bring this up with vagrantc
06:47
<highvoltage>
alkisg: I was wondering what's happening with the login screen plans now that lightdm is being abandonded
06:47
alkisg: so I guess good old ldm will have to live on a bit longer?
06:48
<alkisg>
I don't see much work being done for ltsp6...
06:48
Personally I don't have the time to pull this off by myself
06:48
In which case, we'll stick with plain old ldm a while longer...
06:49
<highvoltage>
I still have an old wishlist for LTSP I'll probably never get to
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06:49
<alkisg>
I will start dropping much unmaintained code though
06:49
E.g. nbd-proxy or altlinux
06:49
<highvoltage>
but I care more about general netboot infrastructure than remote desktops via ssh anyway
06:50
what's altlinux?
06:50
<alkisg>
Haha a distro that has a lot of code in ltsp but hasn't been touched for 8 years or so
06:50
<highvoltage>
ah
06:50
ah right
06:51* alkisg also cares more about fat clients and netbooting infrastructure than about thin clients...
06:53
<bcg>
ldm works fine as it is.
06:55
I'm using nfs-mounted chroot, most of the stuff running on servers (two per site), firefox as localapps, ldm, ...
06:55
<alkisg>
Why localapps instead of ltsp fat clients?
06:56
If the client can run a browser, I imagine it can run a full session...
06:56
<bcg>
I started with firefox in server too with smaller clients, but things have evolved.
06:57
Switching to localapps-firefox was smaller task than switching to full session.
06:58
We'll probably rething now as we're switching to rhel7 and new NUCs
06:58* alkisg prefers the "either thin or fat", and preferably fat; localapps/remoteapps have inherent issues...
07:00
<bcg>
yeah, fat-testing is on my long todo.
07:03
and as there was (is :-) no real rhel-support the fat-clients are in bit bad shape, i guess.
07:03
<alkisg>
bcg: if you use ltsp-pnp instead of ltsp-build-client, you shouldn't need to do much
07:04
<bcg>
ltsp-pnp was not available in the older ltsp that I was using
07:04
<alkisg>
ltsp-pnp clones the server installation into a squashfs image, so the basic thing to do is to disable automatic ip assignment at boot
07:04
Yeah I think I introduced it in 2012...
07:04
<bcg>
Yeah, too new. :-)
07:05
Having separate chroot is not a problem, and we actually prefer different settings there.
07:06
I've also written yum ltsp-plugin, which updates chroot when server gets updates.
07:06
<alkisg>
If you have a sysadmin/coder, sure maintaining a chroot isn't an issue
07:06
<bcg>
So it's basically zero work after install.
07:06
<alkisg>
But tell that to persons trying to install dkms modules in a chroot with different kernel version
07:07
While maintaining a template installation via GUI is the normal thing for most persons
07:07
So I think ltsp-build-client will die in a few years...
07:09
<bcg>
Also our (current, old) chroot is 32bit while server is 64bit.
07:10
There was no 64bit support in ltsp's rhel code.
07:10
<alkisg>
Our rule there is, "if you have at least one 32bit client, install 32bit ltsp-pnp. If all of your clients are 64bit, install 64bit ltsp-pnp".
07:10
<bcg>
Sure, of course.
07:11
We've finally replaced all old 32bit clients with 64bit ones.
07:12
anyway, time to go now or I'll miss my flight.
07:13
<alkisg>
Have fun with your vacations!
07:13
bb
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07:43
<alkisg>
!ldm-bug
07:43
<ltsp`>
I do not know about 'ldm-bug', but I do know about these similar topics: 'ltsp-bug'
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12:33
<Guest82540>
Hello, I'm trying to setup dual screen on thin clients booting LTSP 5.5.1 server installed on top of Ubuntu 14.04. I've difficulties to find good documentation on that point. Does anyone know where I may find documentation on this ? xrandr does not access to hardware on thin clients and report kind of virtual graphic device... How can I do in order xrandr to see local hardware while LOCALDEV is set to true in my lts.conf ?
12:39
<alkisg>
Guest82540: first of all, it'd be best to use some newer ltsp version; but anyways, what's the output of `xrandr`, when you run it on the client?
12:39
Better yet, try this:
12:39
ltsp-localapps xterm
12:39
and from that xterm: xrandr | nc termbin.com 9999
12:39
This will put the xrandr results to termbin so that we see them too...
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13:21
<Guest82540>
alkisg: I've added xterm to local_apps_items in my lts.conf. xrandr report : Screen0 and a "default" monitor, but nothing about hardware output VGA and HDMI...
13:27
alkisg: I see everywhere ltsp-localapps but on my installation there is only a ltsp-localappsd ... is this normal ?
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13:58
<Guest82540>
alkisg: I can see my thin clients are using /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf which contain what I'm seeing with xrandr isn't it ? What would be the best way to update this config in order dual monitors to be taken in account ? Here is the default setup:Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" SubSection "Display" EndSubSection EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Device0" Option "NoAccel" EndSection
14:22
<alkisg>
Guest82540: if you managed to open a local xterm, there, `hostname` should tell you "ltsp123" instead of "server". Is that the case?
14:22
Guest82540: if you have noaccel, then you're using a subset of the driver needed
14:22
This comes from lts.conf settings like X_OPTION_01=xxx
14:23
To see the hardware, you'd run something like this: lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA
14:40
<Guest82540>
alkisg: I can confirm I'm logged on thin client (using telnet to join thin clients from server)
14:41
<alkisg>
OK, go on with the lspci command
14:41
<Guest82540>
alkisg: I already tryed disable hw accel
14:41
alkisg: 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Device 22b1 (rev 35)
14:43
<alkisg>
And put the output of xrandr to pastebin
14:43
!pastebin
14:43
<ltsp`>
pastebin: try !paste
14:43
<alkisg>
!paste
14:43
<ltsp`>
paste: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
14:44
<Guest82540>
alkisg: I've to leave a couple of hour. I'll be back to debug this...
14:45
<alkisg>
Guest82540: no problem, but note that it's summertime, so it might be a few weeks before you get help ;)
14:45
Keep trying.
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15:32
<vagrantc>
alkisg: heya!
15:32
alkisg: i seem to recall you mentioned a bug regarding PAE on i386, but i'm not finding any obvious references to this in email
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16:26
<alkisg>
vagrantc: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=196157
16:26
echo 1 > highmem_is_dirtyable is a workaround
16:30
<vagrantc>
alkisg: thanks!
16:30
<alkisg>
np! We're making some progress with ltsp-manager, today it was the first time we've seen it run on debian ;)
16:31
<vagrantc>
alkisg: we were running a mixture of amd64 and i386 kernels on i386 builds for reproducible-builds.org, which caught some reproducibility issues ... but to work around whatever issue we're experiencing have switchted to amd64 kernels in all cases
16:31
alkisg: maybe it's related to that bug you mentioned :)
16:31
<alkisg>
It could be. To verify, I was measuring dd'ing a small file before and after the issue
16:32
Before => 200 MB/sec, after => 2 MB/sec
17:31
vagrantc, stgraber, ogra: I think declaring ldm and ltspfs as "series and milestones" of ltsp in https://launchpad.net/ltsp is not correct, and we should declare them as separate projects instead, e.g. launchpad.net/ldm and launchpad.net/ltspfs... what do you think?
17:31
highvoltage: ^
17:31
(and same for ltsp-manager now...)
17:32
<highvoltage>
alkisg: sounds sensible yes
17:34
<alkisg>
ty - if the others agree, I'll create those projects
17:35
<vagrantc>
i'm not sure what series and milestones are even used for
17:35
<alkisg>
I think they're a method for supporting e.g. ltsp 5.5.9 for ubuntu 16.04, and ltsp 5.5.5 for ubuntu 14.04, etc
17:36
<vagrantc>
ah, yes, that would make sense
17:36
<alkisg>
So that one can have ltsp 5.5.9-1, -2, -3 etc, all in launchpad
17:36
<vagrantc>
i don't really understand all the structure of launchpad
17:36
<alkisg>
So we're abusing it in order to have "subprojects" for ldm/ltspfs
17:36
<vagrantc>
i do like having ldm and ltspfs as subprojects of ltsp
17:36
<alkisg>
But they're not subprojects that way
17:37
<vagrantc>
agreed
17:37
<alkisg>
It's just one way to abuse series/milestones to get ldm to be translatable etc
17:37
<vagrantc>
by your proposed changes, is that going to change VCS urls and such?
17:37
<alkisg>
Yes
17:37
<vagrantc>
that would be really annoying
17:37
<alkisg>
It'll be lp:ldm, not lp:ltsp/ldm
17:37
And I don't know about translations
17:38
I hope those can be moved...
17:38
<vagrantc>
while it's clearly weird, i'm a little inclined to not mess with it
17:38
but i don't know all the ramifications ... i do know that it's frustrating to have all the packages in the debian repository reference invalid URLs
17:39
weather that's actually the case ... not sure
17:39
for ldm i'm currently using: git+ssh://vagrantc@git.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/+git/ldm
17:40
<alkisg>
ldm: Vcs-Git: https://anonscm.debian.org/git/collab-maint/ldm.git -b dmaster
17:40
Vcs-Browser: https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/collab-maint/ldm.git/
17:40
Didn't you say you'd switch those to launchpad anyway?
17:40
<vagrantc>
and debian/copyright still references bazaar...
17:41* vagrantc sighs
17:41
<vagrantc>
it's all a big mess
17:41
<alkisg>
~ltsp-upstream/+git/ldm ==> I don't think that will change
17:43
<vagrantc>
that's good
17:45
<alkisg>
Although it's wrong, it's currently https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm
17:45
I.e. you missed the /ltsp there
17:45
But we can make it +git/ldm to match what you already have :D
17:46
(which makes more sense)
17:51
Since ltsp-manager is new, I think I'll switch it to a separate project and see how that goes
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17:51
<alkisg>
I'll reuse ogra_'s project page; hopefullly I'll have enough access there..
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18:10
<vagrantc>
alkisg: it works, so i'm not sure how wrong it is
18:11
alkisg: i think the git and bzr URLs don't necessarily follow the same conventions... to keep things very interesting :)
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18:14
<vagrantc>
or, at least, it did work at one point
18:14
as that's where i updated the repository from
18:14
this gets back to my frustration with the URLs moving around all the time
18:15
now neither work
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20:28
<Guest76315>
hello, I'm having trouble using thin client with dual monitors. Thin clients boot up an i386 image from a 5.5.1 LTSP deployed on top of an Ubuntu 14.04. xrandr on thin client does not report about local hardware. Does the xorg server require to run on thin clients in order local hardware to be used ? LOCALDEV is set to true in my lts.conf file.
20:29
<alkisg>
Guest76315: that's a copy/paste of your previous question without mentioning anything about the progress
20:29
<Guest76315>
I have a console access to thin clients, system and xorg logs.
20:29
<alkisg>
For example, now you know how to run xrandr locally, you know the hardware because of lspci, etc etc
20:29
Put the xrandr output to pastebin
20:31
<Guest76315>
alkisg: I can't run it as I do not have access to desktop, I only have a console access on thin client. Would you like to see xorg logs output instead of xrandr output ?
20:31
<alkisg>
Guest76315: do you have root access to the client via telnet?
20:32
Or user access?
20:32
<Guest76315>
alkisg: yep
20:32
<alkisg>
OK, run these:
20:32
apt-get update; apt-get install epoptes-client
20:32
export $(/usr/share/epoptes-client/get-display)
20:32
xrandr
20:32
Then you'll have access to xorg...
20:32
<Guest76315>
alkisg: ok I try it now
20:42
alkisg: https://pastebin.com/zSub4ejS
20:42
<alkisg>
OK, so you have one output with those resolutions available
20:42
And what do you want to do with that?
20:43
<Guest76315>
i'd like xrandr to report local output available on thin client, HDMI, VGA
20:44
in order to setup dual screen, one monitor left of the other for example
20:46
<alkisg>
Isn't that the output of the client?
20:46
Did you run the commands on the server?!
20:46
<Guest76315>
no the command ran on the thin client
20:47
<alkisg>
OK, then you only have a "default" monitor there
20:47
Put your client xorg.log to pastebin as well
20:47
<Guest76315>
ok
20:47
<alkisg>
cat /var/log/Xorg* | nc termbin.com 9999
20:47
If you're using a "bad" xorg.conf, remove it and reboot the client
20:48
E.g. if you blacklisted the intel driver or used nomodeset or noaccel etc
20:49
<Guest76315>
alkisg: what is termbin.com ? will I get an URL back using this cmd ?
20:49
<alkisg>
Yes
20:51
Anyways, time to go... goodnight guys
20:52
<Guest76315>
alkisg: thanks for your support ! good night
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20:59
<Guest76315>
As you can see, thin client kernel does see the HDMI hardware at boot time : Jun 28 17:28:12 ltsp22 kernel: [ 10.414625] input: HDA Intel HDMI as /devices/ pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/sound/card0/input11
21:22
Here is the log of the xorg server running on thin client : https://pastebin.com/KjBxmac3
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21:43
<vagrantc>
alkisg: what do you think about getting rid of ltsp-client-core and ltsp-server-standalone?
21:44
alkisg: basically, transforming ltsp-client into ltsp-client-core, adding recommends. similar for adding recommends for the ltsp-server-standalone package.
21:45
that didn't come out as clearly in words as in my mind...
21:45
e.g. we'd only have ltsp (the new one you proposed), ltsp-client and ltsp-server packages, and whatever optional packages would only be listed in recommends...
21:46
might be stuck with having transitional packages for a whole release cycle though
21:49* vagrantc will follow-up on that tomorrow
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