IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.freenode.net (webchat)


Channel log from 3 July 2015   (all times are UTC)

00:19
<maldridge>
I'm considering trying to run steam on ltsp. I need to get around the graphics sluggishness, any suggestsions?
00:19
in theory, the network is gigabit capable end to end
00:26
<vagrantc>
fat clients
00:26
don't use thin clients
00:27
should be just as fast as installed to a local disk, then
00:27* vagrantc waves to vicit
00:30
<maldridge>
is there a guide for that?
00:31
<vagrantc>
there are a number, but it requires more powerful clients, obviously
00:31
<maldridge>
the "clients" are actually full windows PCs that could easily do this natively, but for show I'm trying to do so with linux
00:32
the caveat is that I'm not allowed to touch the local disk
00:32
<vagrantc>
fat clients should be perfect for that
00:32
!fatclient
00:32
<ltsp>
I do not know about 'fatclient', but I do know about these similar topics: 'fatclients', 'fatclient-printers'
00:32
<vagrantc>
!fatclients | echo maldridge
00:32
<ltsp>
maldridge fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
00:32
<maldridge>
cool, thanks!
00:33
<vagrantc>
!debian
00:33
<ltsp>
debian: is a GNU/Linux based operating system that makes an excellent LTSP server. You can find it at http://www.debian.org. for information about LTSP on debian see http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP
00:33
<vagrantc>
!ltsp-pnp
00:33
<ltsp>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
00:33
<vagrantc>
ltsp-pnp is the easiest way to set them up
00:37
<maldridge>
I've seen that tossed around before, but I haven't used it because it uses proxyDHCP, is there a way to use it without that?
00:41
<vagrantc>
proxydhcp isn't required
00:41
you can manully configure dhcp
00:41
maldridge: you can just do the parts to create the image
00:44
<maldridge>
ok, and so as long as I tell steam to install all its stuff into the thing-that-was-formerly-a-chroot I should be good to have it running locally?
00:44
<vagrantc>
sure
00:45
<maldridge>
cool, this calls for much reading now, thanks for the info!
00:46
<vagrantc>
as long as it doesn't mangle the mesa libraries or something for the video card on the server...
00:49
<maldridge>
?
00:50
<vagrantc>
if the steam installer makes bad assumptions about the local hardware, it may not work. try it and find out
00:53
<maldridge>
the steam installer last I checked ships its own libc, which imho makes all its assumptions questionable
00:55* vagrantc nods
01:01
<vicit>
exit
01:01vicit has left IRC (vicit!~system@184-100-248-138.ptld.qwest.net, Quit: leaving)
01:13
<maldridge>
so if I'm not using the dnsmasq portion, I can safely omit the ipappend directives, right?
01:14
<vagrantc>
yup
01:26gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host86-130-12-96.range86-130.btcentralplus.com)
01:30
<maldridge>
ok, so reading the docs it implies that it literally builds a copy of the server's home rootfs, is that actually what happens?
01:31gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host86-130-12-96.range86-130.btcentralplus.com, Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
01:37
<vagrantc>
maldridge: if you're using the ltsp-pnp method, yes.
01:37
maldridge: if you're building images from chroots, no.
01:38
<maldridge>
I'm still not entirely clear with what the ltsp-pnp method does, it seems like a normal build process, so I don't follow where it uses the server's disk instead of a chroot
01:42
<vagrantc>
the difference is "ltsp-update-image --cleanup /" and "ltsp-update-image"
01:43
(which defaults to /opt/ltsp/$ARCH)
01:44
one bind-mounts the server's filesystems with aufs/overlayfs and then creates the image out of that, the other just creates the image out of the chroot.
01:45
the --cleanup leaves out certain parts from the image
01:46
don't know how else to explain it...
01:48
maldridge: good luck.
01:48
gotta head out.
01:48* vagrantc waves
01:48vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@unaffiliated/vagrantc, Quit: leaving)
02:28gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host86-130-12-96.range86-130.btcentralplus.com)
02:53NeonLicht has left IRC (NeonLicht!~NeonLicht@darwin.ugr.es, Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
03:00gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host86-130-12-96.range86-130.btcentralplus.com, Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
03:07gdi2k has left IRC (gdi2k!~gdi2k@180.191.108.104, Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
03:09gdi2k has joined IRC (gdi2k!~gdi2k@180.191.117.79)
03:44AlexPortable has left IRC (AlexPortable!uid7568@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-houutlbztvcfzvcy, Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
03:57gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host86-130-12-96.range86-130.btcentralplus.com)
04:22work_alkisg is now known as alkisg
04:25
<alkisg>
warren: I'm available for hire , if you want... I've never used any .rpm-based distro, but I was one of the most active ltsp devs in the last 5 years, so I guess I could port it quickly enough
04:25
alkisg at gmail
04:26
<warren>
alkisg: vagrant offered to do it too
04:26
<alkisg>
Ah sure np then
04:26
<warren>
it sounds like he's going to do a crowdfund campaign for LTSP6
04:26
and Fedora/RHEL would be supported targets
04:26
<alkisg>
That would be nice, we've been stuck there for a long time
04:26
<warren>
with all distros using systemd, they would be very similar
04:27
<alkisg>
The problems with ltsp6 are not distro-specific though
04:27
<warren>
I know
04:27
<alkisg>
Mainly, ditching ldm and developing ltspd
04:29
<maldridge>
what's the difference?
04:30
<alkisg>
ldm ==> to use some pam-based authentication system instead of our own login manager, so that way we could use e.g. lightdm or gdm
04:30
ltspd ==> to have a configuration daemon on the server, for the clients, to replace lts.conf and ldminfod
04:30gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host86-130-12-96.range86-130.btcentralplus.com, Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
04:31
<alkisg>
And it would be nice to support local caching (xnbd-proxy) and wifi (pc-sticks, laptops) as well...
04:31
The pc-sticks would make perfect fat clients if local caching was used extensively
04:33
<maldridge>
ah, makes sense
04:34
<gehidore>
alkisg: thanks again earlier, I was just noobing it up hardcore... needed a nap
04:34
<alkisg>
gehidore: np :)
04:34
<gehidore>
working on trying out the nbd method
04:35
<alkisg>
ltsp-config nbd-server
04:36
<gehidore>
I really dig this, on a vm with gigabit virtual network it took 23 seconds to boot deb8 default image, and 7 seconds to log into a usable desktop - not bad considering it was setup with a single 2.5ghz core and 512M ram no disk
04:36
and the settings all set to emulate a p4 essentially since my clients are mostly p4 3.2Ghz boxen with at most 1G ram
04:37
<alkisg>
LTSP fat clients behave mostly like local installations,
04:37
...but in the future with SSD disks providing 500+ MB/sec, we should start using local caching to take advantage of that speed
04:37
<gehidore>
^^^ +1
04:38
I was discussing this with my buddy
04:38
I spent years patching other peoples work because I wanted it to work better and realized I was spending too much time with it then just used linux as an appliance thru the great systemd revolution... ;) now I'm getting interested again in os level dev work...
04:39
we'll see if I can be of any helps once I fully extract my head from my ass
04:39
that might take a few months :D gotta get this office move finished
04:39
<alkisg>
LTSP is all about sending patches to other projects :)
04:39
Ideally LTSP would be just a how-to, and all the work would be done in other projects
04:40
<warren>
need to do more with fat clients
04:41
<gehidore>
what defines a "fat client"
04:41
<alkisg>
A client that runs the apps locally
04:41
vs one that uses the server's cpu and transfers the screen
04:41
<gehidore>
ahhh
04:41
<alkisg>
Mostly, remote disk instead of remote desktop
04:42
<gehidore>
which is what I'm after
04:42
<alkisg>
ltsp-pnp supports both use cases at the same time, so you're fine following that
04:42
<gehidore>
use the local machine for resources, but store the os and /home on the server... cause these girls will _kill_ my client machines sooner rather than later
04:42
this is why we can't have nice things though
05:15nahoskins has joined IRC (nahoskins!~nahoskins@64.147.84.76)
05:15
<nahoskins>
Hello from Bermuda
05:15
trying to get an LTSP Fat client set up going
05:15
it IS possible to do this without a hardrive on the client right...?
05:15
the documentation talks about using NBD to serve files from the server
05:16
but when my clients boot, they get to the Ubuntu Loading screen (with the dots) and then they reboot
05:16
I would LOVE some experienced advice
05:17codetuna has joined IRC (codetuna!4093544c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.147.84.76)
05:18
<nahoskins>
I've got to get these set up for Monday for a class of kids
05:19
I guess what I'm trying to do is a diskless fat client
05:19
<alkisg>
!ltsp-pnp
05:19
<ltsp>
ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
05:19
<alkisg>
nahoskins: try that ^
05:20
It's the simpler way to get fat (diskless) clients going
05:21codetuna has left IRC (codetuna!4093544c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.147.84.76, Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
05:21
<nahoskins>
fantastic
05:22
ive been struggling to get minecraft working on the default thin clients
05:22
and these kids are doing an entire camp based on programming with minecraft edu
05:22
so.. pretty crucial..
05:23
<alkisg>
What are your client specs? CPU, RAM?
05:23
<nahoskins>
well heres where it gets interesting
05:23
most of them have 4GB
05:24
none of them have a hardrive
05:24
and some of them are without RAM entirely
05:24
<alkisg>
Meaning? zero clients, or missing parts?
05:24
<nahoskins>
although.. I'm going to test using... 2GB and sharing it around a bit.. and i've also dug out some RAM
05:24
well its my understanding I can use multiple images
05:24
and assign them on MAC address
05:24
<alkisg>
You normally need only one image
05:25
Are all of them 64-bit capable, or do you have some that i386-only?
05:25
*that are
05:25
<nahoskins>
they came with XP.
05:25
I'm just guessing
05:25
but I've assumed they are all 32
05:25
i386
05:26
<alkisg>
xp and 4 gb ram? that's not normal...
05:26
Anyway, so, install ubuntu 14.04 i386 desktop to some pc (server) and then follow the ltsp-pnp steps
05:27
You should have it ready in 1 hour...
05:27
<nahoskins>
neither was the IT guy I got em off
05:27
I've gotta RAID server
05:27
that im installing it on
05:27
with 16GB RAM
05:27
<alkisg>
It doesn't matter, you can still use the 14.04 i386 desktop cd for that
05:27
<nahoskins>
so does it have to be the same arch as the images with pnp
05:28
ok alkisg, I trust ya.
05:28gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host86-130-12-96.range86-130.btcentralplus.com)
05:28
<alkisg>
You don't have any significant downside... well, other than java+minecraft going a bit slower to 64bit-capable clients that have 32bit os+java
05:29
Better start with checking /proc/cpuinfo to one of those clients, to see if it's 64bit-capable or not
05:29
<nahoskins>
theres nothin on em
05:29
they have no os or hardrives
05:29
<alkisg>
(minecraft is one of the very few apps where 64bit actually makes a visible difference)
05:29
USB stick, live CD...
05:30
<nahoskins>
very true!
05:30
<alkisg>
nahoskins: well, you could also directly test ltsp-pnp, it only needs 1 hour...
05:31
<nahoskins>
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2815543
05:31
thats the machine
05:32
<alkisg>
http://ark.intel.com/products/27520/Intel-Pentium-D-Processor-945-4M-Cache-3_40-GHz-800-MHz-FSB
05:32
<nahoskins>
so whats the benefit of pnp vs trying to run the fat client via "traditional" ltsp on precise ubuntu
05:32
<alkisg>
Instruction Set 64-bit
05:32
You can use 12.04 if you like, no difference
05:33
About the -pnp part, it's much easier to set it up and maintain it, read the wiki page
05:33
<nahoskins>
ok
05:33
<alkisg>
If you have 12.04 installed on that server of yours, you can run the -pnp part now on it...
05:35
<nahoskins>
im adding the greek ppa
05:35
<alkisg>
Note that you might need to update a couple of the configuration files
05:36
The stock 12.04 ltsp version was using an old syntax for nbd
05:37
<nahoskins>
I'm putting the coffee on now
05:40telex has left IRC (telex!teletype@freeshell.de, Remote host closed the connection)
05:42telex has joined IRC (telex!teletype@freeshell.de)
05:42
<nahoskins>
where do you pick up ltsp-config?
05:42
my server doesn't know about it
05:43
<alkisg>
$ dpkg-query -W ltsp-server
05:43
ltsp-server 5.5.4~r2646+p1230+201505220745~ubuntu14.04.1
05:43
<maldridge>
it gets installed when you setup the pnp stuff
05:43
<alkisg>
Verify that you have 5.5.4
05:44
<nahoskins>
i do not
05:44
i have 5.3.7
05:44
woops
05:44
<alkisg>
Maybe you didn't add the ppa, or you didn't update?
05:45
<nahoskins>
doing it again.. just in case
05:46
but its in my history
05:46
whatevs updating it
05:46
<alkisg>
apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade
05:47
<nahoskins>
yeah i just updated ltsp-server
05:47
its at 5.5.4 now and i have config
05:49
generating client image
05:49
so this duplicates the server correct?
05:50
so with this approach I won't be able to use edbuntu images directly
05:50
I'd need to modify the server
05:50
<alkisg>
Modify the server how?
05:50
To add a newer ltsp version?
05:50
Ah, to add a new program?
05:50
<nahoskins>
to add a new client image
05:50
<alkisg>
Yes, you'd add it to the server
05:50
You could also use a VM if you want
05:50
VM server
05:50
<nahoskins>
I was looking at VM
05:51
<alkisg>
With just ltsp-pnp on it, minecraft etc
05:51
<nahoskins>
well
05:51
all they need is minecraft and a browser
05:52
they do some ssh stuff etc with the weechall stuff
05:52
<maldridge>
is there a reason then that you are starting with edubuntu?
05:52
<nahoskins>
not particularly
05:52
seemed like the right choice
05:52
<maldridge>
it sounds like you could start at ubuntu server and just build up a very minimal graphical image
05:52
<nahoskins>
its an.. educaitonal camp
05:52
<maldridge>
yeah, but edubuntu includes tons of stuff you probably will never use
05:52
<nahoskins>
very true
05:53
well its building right now
05:53
and i assume this is taking the server image
05:53
so.. it will be essentially a standard ubuntu server
05:53
<alkisg>
Yes, but move aside the /opt/ltsp/i386 dir (or amd64), it'll confuse things
05:53
<nahoskins>
er shit
05:53
should i do that now
05:53
<alkisg>
Yup
05:53
<nahoskins>
theres like five images in tehre
05:53
k
05:53
<alkisg>
Don't break it
05:53
Just mv it aside
05:54
*I mean, don't Ctrl+C the running ltsp-update-image,
05:54
just open a terminal and run `mv /opt/ltsp/i386 /opt/ltsp-backups/`
05:54
Leave the /opt/ltsp/images directory intact
05:55
<nahoskins>
yeah
05:55
did taht
05:55
I can see its adding to images
05:55
didnt touch that
05:56
so whats the best way to manage the java game
05:56
none of hte machines have local storage
05:56
although i do have a tonne of USB drives
05:56
<maldridge>
nahoskins: manage how
05:56
<nahoskins>
(as a backup in case this does me in)
05:56
well, i frequently have to update it
05:56
and add mods, maps etc
05:56
and in the past ive run around with a usb stick or scp it
05:57
<maldridge>
oh, I'd nfsmount the .minecraft directory to some place you control
05:57
though be careful, I can't remember if it keeps lockfiles in there
05:57
<alkisg>
minecraft works fine over sshfs
05:57
So you don't need to manage anything, ltsp uses sshfs for /home by default
05:57
<nahoskins>
ok
05:57
and that resides in the server /home?
05:58vsuojane1 has left IRC (vsuojane1!~valtteri@83-136-248-31.uk-lon1.host.upcloud.com, Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
05:58
<nahoskins>
by default
05:58
<alkisg>
You can switch to nfs if you like, but minecraft is small, so you won't see a visible difference just for that
05:58
Yes
05:58
<nahoskins>
ok
05:58vsuojanen has joined IRC (vsuojanen!~valtteri@83-136-248-31.uk-lon1.host.upcloud.com)
05:58
<nahoskins>
the real question is whether 20 kids playing minecraft is going to be feasible
05:58
<gehidore>
what's the quickest way to wipe out an old nfs setup so I can try out the NBD method?
05:58
<nahoskins>
im hoping this just works..
05:59
its done
05:59
now... next step
05:59
<maldridge>
nahoskins: I've had the default just work with minecraft, it works and is playable, though you don't get high framerate
05:59
<alkisg>
If you have gigabit server <=> switch connection, then sure
05:59
Framerates depend mostly on the client CPU, i3's here get more FPS than the monitor can display
06:00
<nahoskins>
I have a gigabit server + switch
06:00
<maldridge>
a bit laggy and I don't know how many mods it could support, but I assume you're talking about something like computercraft which is super lightweight
06:00
<alkisg>
So it will go as fast as local installations
06:00
<nahoskins>
yeah
06:00
computercraft
06:00gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host86-130-12-96.range86-130.btcentralplus.com, Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
06:01
<alkisg>
gehidore: your nfs setup is on the server, assuming that you don't want to wipe your server, then you could either let it as it is (it doesn't conflict with nbd) or just remove nfs-kernel-server
06:01
<nahoskins>
ok restarted nbd server..
06:02
why is my client not being picked up by dhcp...
06:02
whats changed..
06:02
<gehidore>
alkisg: I want to wipe it cause there is limited space
06:02
<alkisg>
gehidore: nfs-kernel-server only needs a few MB
06:02
<gehidore>
I guess the other part is in this guide: https://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto there are two methods
06:03
<alkisg>
Are you talking about the /ltsp/i386 directory?
06:03
If you started using ltsp-pnp, you can wipe that directory now
06:03
<gehidore>
ja that's the one
06:03
<maldridge>
nahoskins: not picked up as in no address, or as in no pxe
06:03
<nahoskins>
no pxe
06:04
its just hanging looking for a dhcp offer
06:04
hold on
06:04
<maldridge>
is tftp running?
06:06
<nahoskins>
no dnsmasq
06:07
<gehidore>
http://gehidore.net/ss/1435903448YzZkO.png sorry alkisg that's the error I was getting which I mistook to mean I needed to nuke the nfs image
06:07
<alkisg>
gehidore: well, do run that
06:08
You don't need to nuke nfs, it can be used in parallel
06:08
Mentioning the exact error messages helps MORE than describing them :)
06:08
<nahoskins>
dnsmasq is running, so is isc-dhcp-server
06:08
<gehidore>
I need to stop working on this project while I'm sleep deprived...
06:09
<nahoskins>
hmm
06:09
<gehidore>
I'm usually on the other side of the help desk here o.O
06:09
<nahoskins>
hey does pnp change dhcp settings?
06:09
in ltsp
06:09
gehidore tell me about it
06:09
bloody kids
06:09
<alkisg>
nahoskins: you don't need both dnsmasq and isc-dhcp, select one of them
06:09
nahoskins: do you have an external dhcp server?
06:09
Like, a router?
06:09
<nahoskins>
well i know i dont NEED both..
06:10
uh
06:10
well i have an arch macbook
06:10
which has wifi being forwarded to ethernet
06:10
to a switch
06:10
to the server
06:10
<maldridge>
nahoskins: you might wish to run straight tftpd and isc, I find that dnsmasq doesn't ever do what I want it to
06:10
<nahoskins>
and i defined the ip manually
06:10
<gehidore>
nahoskins: you build a package for arch or working on one by chance?
06:10
<nahoskins>
so unless the cisco router has something on it
06:10
<alkisg>
nahoskins: run this on your server: sudo /usr/lib/klibc/bin/ipconfig -n eth0
06:11
(replace eth0 if needed)
06:11
Does it get an IP from a DHCP server?
06:12
<nahoskins>
nope
06:12
<gehidore>
alkisg: am I misunderstanding the way the pnp works? this appears to be creating a full image nearly the size of the actual system itself in /opt/ltsp/ ?
06:12
oh and it segfaulted anyways
06:13
<alkisg>
nahoskins: what's the output of `ip a` ?
06:13
<gehidore>
http://gehidore.net/ss/1435903974ZWM5Z.png
06:13
<alkisg>
gehidore: it's malfunctioning, it shouldn't be reading //sys
06:13
<nahoskins>
hey
06:14
<alkisg>
Check any error messages above, maybe about overlayfs or aufs
06:14
<nahoskins>
looked like a change to my dhcp.conf file
06:14
i have a boot screen!
06:14
on ze client
06:14
<gehidore>
nahoskins: wooot
06:14
<nahoskins>
lets hope it gets past the damn dots!!!
06:14
IRC should have a "buy a beer" button
06:14
if you are ever in Bermuda
06:14
find the Code Tuna guy
06:15
ok.. im at a busy box screen
06:15
getting ... closer!
06:15
<alkisg>
The output of `ip a` on the server will help... or, ip -oneline -family inet addr show
06:16
Or, at the client busybox, try `ipconfig eth0`
06:16
<nahoskins>
yeah.. im using weechat from the archbook pro
06:16
i could ssh into the server
06:16
would save on the number of keyboards i have going right now..
06:17
its got the ip address i manually gave it
06:17
<maldridge>
why did you have to manually give it an IP?
06:17
that sounds like something in your dhcp stack isn't functioning as intended
06:18
<nahoskins>
well no
06:18
i did that because this is just a hack to get internet to the server
06:18
I uh
06:18
don't have a router... here
06:18
im kinda borrowing wifi access from a friendly neighbour
06:18
so i have to port it through the archbook
06:18
which is why i assigned the ip address
06:19
so i can set a default route through the archbook
06:19
<maldridge>
ah, so that is jsut link-local from the macbook to the server
06:19
<nahoskins>
yeah
06:19
well macbook - cisco switch - RAID server
06:19
<gehidore>
since the scroll back is too long I wiped the build and reran it redirecting the output to a file...
06:20
<nahoskins>
ok so rootserver on the busybox is 192.168.0.1 which is my servers eth1 (which i coulda sworn was the connection to the macbook but nvm)
06:21
and the rootpath is /opt/ltsp/i386
06:21
and the filename is ltsp/i386/nbi.img
06:21
<alkisg>
nahoskins: now that's probably the newer ltsp version
06:21
egrep -rv '^#|^$' /etc/nbd*
06:22
http://paste.debian.net/278300/
06:22
Change them like that ^ and restart nbd
06:25
<gehidore>
http://ix.io/jrk
06:25
<nahoskins>
ok
06:25
i really fucking wish i was on ssh right now
06:25
:D
06:26
<gehidore>
I'm thinking the debian wiki article for this is lacking much
06:26
<alkisg>
gehidore: I think the issue is with the most recent debian kernel not supporting aufs, and only supporting the newer overlayfs syntax
06:27
So that wiki would work for debian 7, but not for 8
06:27
<gehidore>
ahh
06:27
I love overlayfs
06:27
<alkisg>
You probably need 2 lines changed, the ones that use overlayfs for -pnp
06:27* alkisg _did_ propose the ubuntu page, -pnp is most tested there :)
06:28
<nahoskins>
they all look the same..
06:28
<alkisg>
Well, an ltsp developer can put those 2 missing lines in 5 minutes... an ltsp user will have a blocker there... so distros do matter a bit
06:29
<gehidore>
alkisg: project code lines or config lines?
06:29
<alkisg>
ltsp project code line
06:29
s
06:30
<nahoskins>
so..
06:30
<gehidore>
let me rephrase, actual compiled binary code lines or the non compiled portions?
06:30
ie something I could grep for and easily switch
06:30
<alkisg>
shell, wait a bit, phone...
06:31
<gehidore>
no worries
06:34
<alkisg>
gehidore: $ grep -r overlay /usr/sbin/ltsp-update-image /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-bottom/ltsp
06:34
The first is broken and need to become similar to the second which is fixed
06:35
*needs
06:35
I.e. ltsp-update-image should imitate init-bottom/ltsp
06:35
<gehidore>
thanks
06:35
<alkisg>
gehidore: then do file a bug report so that we fix this upstream...
06:35
!ltsp-bug
06:35
<ltsp>
ltsp-bug: To file a bug report for upstream LTSP, go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp
06:36
<gehidore>
hehe it wants an ubuntu account
06:36
<alkisg>
A launchpad account
06:36
All ltsp developers have one, that's where the code is maintained...
06:37
<gehidore>
aye
06:37
just made me chuckle to see that
06:37
<alkisg>
We could switch to github, but there's no clear benefit yet there
06:38
<gehidore>
bleh @ github anyways
06:38
I use it personally ... it's just due for a political upshift and overthrow
06:38
<alkisg>
You could also file a bug at debian, if you prefer to file bug reports via mails...
06:39
<gehidore>
I normally submit patches with I submit bug reports :D
06:39* alkisg hates abusing mails for bug reporting
06:39
<gehidore>
^^
06:39
one thing that annoys me with syslinux they prefer you use the mailing list
06:39
<alkisg>
Bug trackers exist for a reason...
06:39
<nahoskins>
hmm
06:39
<gehidore>
exactly!
06:40
<nahoskins>
anyone got any advice on troubleshooting this
06:40
just got a coffee
06:40
<gehidore>
ok can't keep my eyes open, I'll file this in the morning, cheers again alkisg
06:40
<nahoskins>
night
06:40
<alkisg>
gehidore: good night
06:41
nahoskins: troubleshoot the coffee? Can't help with that, "works for me" fine here... :P :D
06:41
<nahoskins>
hehe
06:41
<alkisg>
Do you mean the busybox/nbd issue? Did you read my previous line above?
06:42
<nahoskins>
yeah
06:42
those lines you pasted
06:42
got them identical on mine
06:42
didnt have to change a thing
06:42
only thing, ive also got ltsp_amd64
06:43
but the client is looking in i386 so.. thats not it
06:43
<alkisg>
!nbd-client
06:43
<ltsp>
nbd-client: To try mounting the NBD image from the client initramfs: nbd-client 192.168.67.1 -N /opt/ltsp/i386 /dev/nbd0
06:47
<nahoskins>
Negotiation: ..size = 823MB
06:48
bs=1024, sz=863817728 bytes
06:48
<alkisg>
Try "exit" now
06:48
See if it continues
06:48
<nahoskins>
kernel panic
06:48
not syncing
06:48
<alkisg>
!ipappend
06:48
<ltsp>
ipappend: o temporarily solve DHCP problems in the initramfs, try putting IPAPPEND 3 after the APPEND line in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default. More info: http://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php/SYSLINUX#IPAPPEND_flag_val_.5BPXELINUX_only.5D
06:48
<alkisg>
Try this ^
06:51
<nahoskins>
ok
06:51uXus has left IRC (uXus!~uXus@217.77.222.72, Quit: ail bi bek)
06:52
<nahoskins>
rebooting the client
06:53
damnit
06:53
back to busy box
06:53
is there a service i should restart on teh server
06:53
i just appended the IPAPPEND 3 to the file
06:54uXus has joined IRC (uXus!~uXus@217.77.222.72)
06:55
<alkisg>
What is the error message on the busybox shell?
06:55
!quiet-splash
06:55
<ltsp>
quiet-splash: to disable the splash screen in Ubuntu, in order to see any boot error messages, run sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default and remove quiet splash plymouth:force-splash vt.handoff=7
06:55
<nahoskins>
t just dumps me on busybox
06:56
<alkisg>
Remove quiet-splash to see the error message
06:57
<nahoskins>
it is removed
06:57
quiet splash plymouth:force-splash vt.handoff=7
06:57
all gone
06:57
setting up nbd-client
06:57
is taking long time
06:57gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host86-130-12-96.range86-130.btcentralplus.com)
06:57
<nahoskins>
exported device is too big for me
06:57
oh dear
06:58
me thinks this is in fact 32 bit machine
06:58
<alkisg>
It wouldn't load an amd64 kernel then
06:59
<nahoskins>
but its trying to load i386
07:00
<alkisg>
cat /proc/cmdline
07:02
<nahoskins>
nbdroot=:ltsp_i386
07:05
<alkisg>
Ah, pxelinux.cfg/default is wrong then, you need ltsp-update-kernels etc to update it
07:05
label ltsp-NBD
07:05
menu label LTSP, using NBD
07:05
kernel vmlinuz-3.16.0-38-generic
07:05
append ro initrd=initrd.img-3.16.0-38-generic init=/sbin/init-ltsp quiet splash root=/dev/nbd0
07:05
ipappend 3
07:08
<nahoskins>
does i gotta change the kernel?
07:08
<alkisg>
No
07:08
Make it _similar_ to that... ^
07:09
<nahoskins>
after the ltsp-update-kernels
07:09
its gotten rid of the ipappend 3
07:09
<alkisg>
i.e. remove nbdroot= etc
07:09
It's not needed since 3 years, it even confuses things
07:10
<nahoskins>
doesn't have that
07:10
<alkisg>
It's in /proc/cmdline, you said
07:10muppis_ has joined IRC (muppis_!muppis@takaisin.fi)
07:11gdi2k has left IRC (gdi2k!~gdi2k@180.191.117.79, Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
07:11muppis has left IRC (muppis!muppis@takaisin.fi, Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
07:11gdi2k has joined IRC (gdi2k!~gdi2k@203.177.248.238)
07:11
<nahoskins>
cant find kernel image
07:11
odd
07:12muppis_ is now known as muppis
07:12
<nahoskins>
ok so i had a typo
07:12
back to the dots
07:13
annnd back to busybox
07:13
<alkisg>
cat /proc/cmdline again
07:13
Do you see nbdroot now?
07:14
<nahoskins>
root= /dev/nbd0
07:14
that is... it
07:14
<alkisg>
cat /conf/arch.conf
07:14
What's the arch defined there?
07:14
<nahoskins>
i386
07:15
<alkisg>
Wait I'm confused. Do you only use i386 everywhere, no amd64 software at all?
07:16
<nahoskins>
the server is x86_64
07:16
<alkisg>
Not the cpu arch, the software
07:17
If the server software is amd64, and you're using ltsp-pnp, then the client should get amd64
07:18
dpkg --print-architecture on the server
07:19
<nahoskins>
yeah, it is amd64
07:19
so why is the client getting an i386?
07:19
<alkisg>
dhcpd.conf
07:19
Did you point the clients to amd64 there?
07:19
ls /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp
07:19
2 arches there, and 2 images in /opt/ltsp/images
07:20
You select which one the clients will use from dhcpd.conf filename
07:20
Delete i386 from everywhere if you don't need it, so that it's easier for you to troubleshoot it
07:20
<nahoskins>
bollocks
07:20uXus has left IRC (uXus!~uXus@217.77.222.72, Quit: ail bi bek)
07:20
<nahoskins>
yes i did
07:21
is there any way to default the dhcpd.conf
07:22
where is the right .img
07:22
it put it in ...
07:22
somewhere
07:24uXus has joined IRC (uXus!~uXus@217.77.222.72)
07:25
<nahoskins>
opt/ltsp/images/amd64.img
07:25
it hink
07:27
<alkisg>
When the client boots, the PXE stack shows the filename it got
07:27
Do you see i386 or amd64 there?
07:27
E.g. http://i.imgur.com/ADX3l.png => TFTP prefix: /ltsp/i386/
07:28
Yours should say /ltsp/amd64/ there
07:28
It's derived from the "filename" directive of dhcpd.conf or dnsmasq.conf
07:29
<nahoskins>
yeah
07:29
missed it
07:30
4:30 AM here
07:30
losing it a bit
07:30
<alkisg>
np, /me is multitasking waaay to much to catch all possible issues anyway... :)
07:31gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host86-130-12-96.range86-130.btcentralplus.com, Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
07:32
<nahoskins>
wheres the pxelinux/default again
07:32
ive just cycled through opt etc and var
07:32
<alkisg>
/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64/pxelinux.cfg/default
07:32
<nahoskins>
ah
07:32
cheers
07:34
tftp prefix
07:34
was still i386
07:36
ive got an if loop in my dhcp.conf
07:37
if the vendor identifies as pxeclient it loads ltsp/amd64/pxelinux.0
07:37
otherwise it loads nbi.img
07:37
other then that its using root-path as /opt/ltsp/amd64
07:38
<alkisg>
It's a thing from the past, unused currently, but it doesn't hurt either
07:38
(nbi.img)
07:38
<nahoskins>
ok
07:38
on boot it is not showing ltsp/amd64
07:38
<alkisg>
Did you restart dhcp-server?
07:38
<nahoskins>
but the dhcp.conf is definitely pointing the right place
07:38
whats that again
07:39
service dhcp-server restart?
07:39
isc sorry
07:40
hmm
07:40
wont restart
07:40ricotz has joined IRC (ricotz!~rico@ubuntu/member/ricotz)
07:40
<nahoskins>
oh
07:40
helps if im root
07:41
damn
07:42
ok the tftpprefix is now amd
07:42
failure insufficient information to set up nbd
07:42
so it cant mount
07:42
ok
07:43
it doesnt have port or nbd-device...
07:43
why is that
07:44
<alkisg>
It doesn't need them, it automatically selects the correct ones, it's 10809 and $ROOTPATH
07:44
But you still have i386 in your nbd-server configuration
07:44
Check the command that I gave 1 hour ago and compare again...
07:44
<nahoskins>
!nbd-client
07:44
<ltsp>
nbd-client: To try mounting the NBD image from the client initramfs: nbd-client 192.168.67.1 -N /opt/ltsp/i386 /dev/nbd0
07:46
<nahoskins>
nbd0 unknown partition table
07:46
<alkisg>
That part is ok
07:47
(09:21:40 πμ) alkisg: egrep -rv '^#|^$' /etc/nbd*
07:47
(09:22:09 πμ) alkisg: http://paste.debian.net/278300/
07:47
(09:22:19 πμ) alkisg: Change them like that ^ and restart nbd
07:47
Replace i386 with amd64 now though
07:47
In the filenames as well
07:47
And restart nbd-server
07:49spectra has left IRC (spectra!~spectra@debian/developer/spectra, Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
07:49
<nahoskins>
ok but
07:49
ive got /etc/nbd-server/conf.d/ltsp_amd64 and ltsp_i386
07:50
<alkisg>
That's because you had an i386 chroot previously
07:50
<nahoskins>
and the files inside those directories all have the correct labelling
07:50
so what remove the ltsp_i386
07:50
or mv it
07:50
<alkisg>
No it doesn't matter if you have both files, you can leave it
07:51
<nahoskins>
ok well the amd file has the right parameter
07:51
<alkisg>
Now check <tftp>/ltsp/amd64/pxelinux.cfg/default
07:51
What's the append line from there?
07:52
Ah, and I wonder if you have an older version of the ltsp boot scripts in the initramfs...
07:52
ls -l /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/amd64/initrd*
07:52
Were those updated today?
07:52spectra has joined IRC (spectra!~spectra@debian/developer/spectra)
07:53
<nahoskins>
ro initrd=initrd.img autoconf=dhcp nbdroot=:ltsp_amd64
07:53
is the append line
07:53
<alkisg>
autoconf? where did that come from?
07:53
<nahoskins>
no idea
07:53
magic.
07:53
<alkisg>
Which distro/version was that again? ubuntu 12.04?
07:54
Remove the autoconf and nbdroot etc, make it similar to the i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
07:54
It looks like your kernels + tftp files are not up to date
07:55
<nahoskins>
k
07:56
its 12.04 btw
07:57
ikeep bloody trying to run systemctl
07:57
service?
07:57
on ubuntu
07:58
to restart nbd
07:58
gottit
07:59
no init found..
08:00
<alkisg>
Did you remove the init=/sbin/init-ltsp part from pxelinux.cfg/default?
08:00
<nahoskins>
so its still not mounting
08:00
<alkisg>
cat /proc/cmdline again
08:00
<nahoskins>
initrd=initrd.img
08:01
boot image = vmlinux...
08:01
then some ip info
08:01
append ro initrd-initrd.img
08:01
thats all it is now
08:02
label ltsp, kernel vmlinux, append ro initrd=initrd.img, ipappend 3
08:04
ok so
08:04
im going to copy the i386 default
08:04
because it doesnt even have a root now
08:04
and that is not going to end well i take it
08:05
<alkisg>
(10:05:56 πμ) alkisg: label ltsp-NBD
08:05
(10:05:56 πμ) alkisg: menu label LTSP, using NBD
08:05
(10:05:56 πμ) alkisg: kernel vmlinuz-3.16.0-38-generic
08:05
(10:05:56 πμ) alkisg: append ro initrd=initrd.img-3.16.0-38-generic init=/sbin/init-ltsp quiet splash root=/dev/nbd0
08:05
(10:05:56 πμ) alkisg: ipappend 3
08:08
<nahoskins>
initrd=initrd.img
08:08
and i got rid of quiet
08:08
and splash
08:08
otherwise
08:08
spot on
08:09
and kernel is just vmlinuz
08:09
but.. that should be ok
08:09
i take it
08:09
also there is memtest
08:11
holy shit
08:11
im at a login
08:12
uh
08:12
i logged in
08:12
and it restarted
08:12
BANG BANG BANG goes my head on the desk
08:12
dear god why
08:12
such a cock tease
08:14
ok so i can get an xterm up
08:14
but it is not looking happy
08:14
ok
08:14
so
08:14
ive got an xterm on the login screen
08:15
and it seems to work
08:15
yay
08:16
oh so if i try to login to ubuntu or ubuntu 2d
08:16
the system crashes
08:16
not ideal
08:16
bollocks
08:17
on boot it says nbd0 is an unknown partition table
08:18
login, see the pretty ubuntu background
08:18
and then CRASH
08:18
reboot
08:20
funnilly enough
08:20
i think i just started minecraft...
08:20
this is bloody odd
08:20
<maldridge>
nahoskins: do you have a shell for it to log into?
08:21
<nahoskins>
no it launches the ldm thing
08:21
and bottom left is some preferences
08:21
i pick failsafe xterm
08:21
and i get a terminal
08:21
from there i can launch programs etc
08:21
and they seem... so far... to work
08:21
but i cant actually get to the desktop
08:21
<maldridge>
yeah, it seems like you don't have a valid default session
08:21
<nahoskins>
bearing in mind im logging in as me
08:21
and im logged into the server
08:22
dont know if that complicates things
08:22
<maldridge>
does the server have a gui installed?
08:22
<nahoskins>
shouldnt do
08:22
yeah
08:22
it does
08:22
wish it didnt but that was the default
08:22
<maldridge>
huh, dunno then
08:22
<nahoskins>
minecraft is taking forever to load
08:22
<maldridge>
my experience is generally if it doesn't load then its because it couldn't load a session
08:23
<nahoskins>
well
08:23
it has an x server running somehow
08:23
its running a java program
08:23
or trying to
08:23
wow really slowly
08:24
<maldridge>
huh, this still sounds like the gfx backend wasn't found
08:24
<nahoskins>
firefox loads
08:24
but yeah mouse is intermittent
08:24
no window dressings
08:24
somethings not happy
08:25
oh bollocks and its not getting internet
08:25
will need to figure that out asap
08:25
<maldridge>
so to get windowing, you could install something like openbox from the server, then run that on the client
08:25
it would reparent all the windows so you could move them around
08:26
<nahoskins>
i was thinking awesome?
08:26
or maybe try and go with just wayland/weston
08:26
but it should work...
08:27
<alkisg>
nahoskins: is that xterm a local xterm (user@ltsp123) or a server-side xterm (user@server) ?
08:28
<nahoskins>
i wish i could switch back to it to tell ya
08:28
brought firefox up and its hogging all the screen
08:28
<alkisg>
Alt+F4
08:28
Or ctrl+q
08:28
<nahoskins>
yeah tried them
08:28
nothing
08:28
<alkisg>
*ctrl+w, whatever...
08:28
Alt+f, exit
08:29
Or reboot client
08:29
<nahoskins>
rebooted
08:29
ill let you know in a second
08:29
but hey alkisg, you got it working
08:29
even if its being a bitch
08:29
<alkisg>
The newest ltsp version that you have shouldn't have any issues with 2d/3d unity
08:29
<nahoskins>
thank god you were online
08:30
mmm
08:30
got any logs you recommend
08:30
<alkisg>
So something else is to blame, e.g. maybe you run ltsp-update-image before upgrading to the newest ltsp
08:30
No, we'll troubleshoot within the xterm you're getting
08:30
I'll just be answering slowly at times, too much multitasking here...
08:30
<nahoskins>
right so its ltsp109
08:30
hey your a god send
08:31
<alkisg>
What are the client specs?
08:31
<nahoskins>
*you're
08:31
<alkisg>
free => tells ram
08:31
cat /proc/cpuinfo ==> tells cpu
08:31
<nahoskins>
2GB
08:31
apparently
08:31
<alkisg>
grep -r Exec /usr/share/xsessions ==> tells the commands for the available sessions
08:32
And you can execute the session from the xterm manually
08:32
I hope you're not trying to login as root...
08:32
<nahoskins>
lol
08:32
no
08:32
<alkisg>
And, you do have /home/username there mounted via sshfs, right?
08:32
bb in 5'...
08:32
<nahoskins>
yep
08:32
<alkisg>
(be back)
08:32
<nahoskins>
got minecraft here but it wouldnt load
08:33
gnome session crashes the machine
08:33
might be not enough RAM?
08:33
<maldridge>
nahoskins: are you still in that xterm?
08:33
<nahoskins>
well... i will be again real soon
08:33
i tried to run gnome
08:33
I don't think 2GB is enough to run unity is it?
08:34
<maldridge>
once you are there can you try to ping session.minecraft.net and see that it resolves
08:34
it will be something in amazon's aws
08:34
<nahoskins>
its the edu one
08:34
so its local
08:35
id like to know why it cant ping out though
08:35
on the thin clients i had before it would just connect
08:35
via the server
08:35
which has 2 NICs
08:36
<maldridge>
ipappend prevents DNS from being set correctly
08:36
<nahoskins>
... why won't it let me sudo
08:36
saying incorrect password
08:36
<maldridge>
if you know an IP on the outside (such as 8.8.8.8) you can ping that
08:36
<nahoskins>
which is bs
08:36
yeah
08:36
its resolv.conf
08:36
but i cant edit it
08:37
<maldridge>
your login is on the ltsp node, which is likely different from your root login
08:37
<nahoskins>
because sudo isnt working
08:37
ahhhh
08:37
but.. if resolv.conf is set properly on the server
08:37
and its mounting the home directory...
08:37
or even etc
08:37
not home
08:37
why isnt the resolv.conf file the same
08:38
not having sudo is going to be a problem
08:38
<maldridge>
DNS is funny and doesn't always work the way for reasons I can't adequately explain at 0400
08:39
<nahoskins>
christ its almost 6 here
08:39
yeah. i can ping google
08:39
so its just a problem with dns
08:39
<maldridge>
ok, so its definitly a DNS issue
08:39
<nahoskins>
i can get around that
08:39
<maldridge>
yeah, that is ok, sudo is just a matter of building in a known root login on the image
08:40
<nahoskins>
this is the pnp
08:40
thing
08:40
<maldridge>
yeah, it still builds an image
08:40
<nahoskins>
yeah but from the server
08:40
so no chroot
08:40
if im not mistaken
08:40
which. i may well be
08:40
making more coffee
08:41
<maldridge>
yeah, no chroot, but it can't copy /etc/passwd or /etc/shadow iirc
08:41
<nahoskins>
ok
08:41
makes sense
08:41
so i have to su to root
08:41
cant be
08:42
ubuntu locks root doesnt it
08:42
<maldridge>
sort of
08:42
the account is locked by default, but you can su to it
08:42
<nahoskins>
right
08:42
just not on the ltsp node
08:42
<maldridge>
so the issue seems to be you can't sudo to it
08:43
<nahoskins>
correct the client does not have sudo
08:43
<maldridge>
I'm not that familiar with the pnp setup, lemme go dochunting
08:43
<nahoskins>
ill do the same
08:43
cheers
08:44
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2815543
08:44
thats what im working with btw
08:44
for the client
08:44
<maldridge>
can you visudo within the node and see if any groups are allowed sudo?
08:44
<nahoskins>
i cannot
08:44
denied
08:44
<maldridge>
figures
08:45
<alkisg>
You don't want sudo on the client. You can get it with an lts.conf directive, but you don't want it
08:45
Unity, gnome etc should run fine with 1 GB RAM
08:45
<maldridge>
alkisg: how do you edit the things then that would normally be in a chroot?
08:46
<alkisg>
You edit them on the server
08:46
E.g. you would need to install minecraft on the server
08:46
The server is actually a template client in the ltsp-pnp case
08:46
<maldridge>
I'm thinking more that his resolv.conf doesn't match the server
08:46
<alkisg>
Shouldn't we be focusing on the DE before the DNS issue?
08:46
DNS_SERVER=xxx in lts.conf, the ltsp-pnp wiki page does mention that
08:47
And if you have 2 NICs then you need NAT on the server
08:47
So that the internal network can access the internet
08:47* maldridge went for the problem that was in his area of knowledge
08:47
<alkisg>
sure, np
08:47
It's good to have people willing to help here :)
08:47
<maldridge>
yeah, I agree DE first, but not gnome, not on that hardware with minecraft
08:48* alkisg is using gnome-flashback
08:48
<nahoskins>
ok
08:48
i fixed it
08:48
the dns
08:49
<alkisg>
sudo apt-get install gnome-flashback; sudo ltsp-config lts.conf --overwrite (but keep your old lts.conf); sudo /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels; sudo update-initramfs -u; sudo ltsp-update-image -c /
08:49
Those should give you gnome-flashback and possibly fix your pxelinux.cfg/default issue
08:50
<nahoskins>
ok so ill overwrite the lts.conf
08:50
readd the dns
08:51
xfce not a good pick?
08:52
or awesome
08:52
the kids will learn
08:52
<alkisg>
Better use some DE that at least one LTSP dev uses :)
08:52
<maldridge>
I'd be careful with awesome since its just a wm and not a de, you might need to make some tweaks
08:52
<alkisg>
You do want a DE, don't you?
08:52
<maldridge>
I also had to tweak my minecraft scripts for it to load properly in awesome
08:52
<alkisg>
Or you want a kiosk-like experience?
08:53
<nahoskins>
ideally theyd all be stuck on arch
08:53
<maldridge>
lol
08:53
<nahoskins>
and id never have to stray into this crap... but... there you go
08:53
"user experience"
08:53
de works
08:53
ill go with gnome fallback
08:53
flashback
08:53
<alkisg>
OK, run all those commands then and see you when the ltsp-update-image finishes...
08:54
<nahoskins>
cant find flashback
08:55gvy has joined IRC (gvy!~mike@altlinux/developer/mike)
08:55
<alkisg>
apt-get install gnome-panel
08:55
ah maybe it was gnome-session-flashback... anyway gnome-panel is the same, do that
08:55
<nahoskins>
it skipped yaboot and etherboot images
08:55
i dont need those do i...
08:55
<alkisg>
You don't need them, they're obsolete
08:56
<maldridge>
long time since I've seen any reference to yaboot, thought it was dead
08:56
<nahoskins>
the camp
08:56
<alkisg>
It is, it's just too much bureaucracy to get people to agree to remove it from the ltsp code
08:56
<nahoskins>
incidentally
08:56
is www.codetuna.com
08:57
the children will be recorded saying something cute in your honour
08:57
and it will go on the facebook page
08:58
"Thank you #LTSP!"
08:58
<alkisg>
Haha :)
08:59
http://www.ltsp.org/stories/widget-map/?location=Greece
08:59* alkisg helps those ^ kids here...
08:59
<alkisg>
One school for each pin
08:59
<nahoskins>
well we need to add Bermuda to that map
08:59
<alkisg>
...and another 500+ schools that don't show up on this map
08:59
Do it, there's an "add your story" to ltsp.org
09:00
<maldridge>
wow, I wish here in Texas we had that much linux in use in schools, its pretty much a few lugs and that's it
09:00
<nahoskins>
I will, soon as I have time
09:00* alkisg would love to go to Bermuda and install ltsp there :P :D
09:00
<nahoskins>
right its still running the update-image
09:00
im going to make MORE COFFEE
09:01
gotta go to the school im running this camp at now
09:01
<maldridge>
so much coffee with you guys...
09:01
<nahoskins>
and pretend im well rested
09:03FGXR6 has left IRC (FGXR6!~phantom@ppp121-44-36-166.lns20.syd4.internode.on.net, Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
09:04
<nahoskins>
20%
09:04
this thing takes a fair while
09:04
why is ltsp so huge in greece
09:06
<maldridge>
iirc its actually backed by the country's school IT
09:07
<alkisg>
Yup, i'm in that team
09:07
But the good thing is that the adoption is on a voluntary basis
09:08
And it's good to see that schools select that solution even though they have new hardware, so that they don't need LTSP for Pentium 3's etc
09:08
In my prefecture the adoption rate is more than 90%
09:15
<nahoskins>
wow
09:15
well Bermuda is a tiny place
09:16FGXR6 has joined IRC (FGXR6!~phantom@ppp121-44-36-166.lns20.syd4.internode.on.net)
09:16
<nahoskins>
and I simply run a camp
09:16
but id be very surprised if the IT staff here were switched on enough to look into this
09:16
Bermuda is VERY .NET C# Microsoft land
09:17
very few python, ruby, linux people
09:17
<alkisg>
We have some tools here that let *teachers* maintain their schools
09:17
Mass user creation, automatic configuration of ltsp etc,
09:17
<nahoskins>
ok the command finished
09:17
i was looking at the remote ... viewing thing
09:17
<alkisg>
so they almost never need to open a console
09:17
<nahoskins>
looked like vnc
09:17
for multiple clients
09:17
<alkisg>
Yes it uses vnc underneath
09:18
<nahoskins>
ok
09:18
once i figure out a de
09:18
ill move onto that
09:18
so
09:19
rebooting
09:19
<alkisg>
In ltsp-pnp, it's as simple as "apt-get install epoptes; ltsp-update-image -c /"
09:19
<nahoskins>
nice
09:19
got friends in greece
09:19
need to come out there and visit
09:20
although now maybe nota good time
09:20
<maldridge>
alkisg: if I'm running exclusively fat clients, is ltsp still the best solution, or would I be better off doing diskless booting
09:20
<alkisg>
Don't come now, our banks are not working :P :D
09:20
<nahoskins>
drbl is a BITCH
09:20
HATE that thing
09:21
yeah, heard things were not so fun at the moment
09:21
ok... so
09:21
we are back to continuous reboot
09:21
tftp prefix is still amd64
09:21
<alkisg>
maldridge: ltsp is the best way for diskless booting from a single image no matter what you want
09:22
Fats, thins, kiosks, cluster...
09:22
If you want to boot a *single* diskless client then ok you can do other things like iscsi as well
09:22
<nahoskins>
ok got login screen
09:22
<maldridge>
alkisg: should I have any concerns about ltsp becoming dependant on systemd in the future?
09:22
<nahoskins>
fuck
09:23
its randomly rebooting
09:23
<alkisg>
ltsp is just glue. If you want the glue for ...systemE, you can just provide the 5-10 lines it will need
09:23
<nahoskins>
i was about to login and it went
09:24
<alkisg>
Uncomment the LDM_SESSION line in your lts.conf
09:24
So that gnome-flashback is the default DE
09:28
<nahoskins>
did that
09:28
same login though
09:28
looks a damn site like ldm
09:28gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host86-145-193-74.range86-145.btcentralplus.com)
09:29
<nahoskins>
how do you start gnome-flashback
09:29
i installed gnome panel
09:29
im at the login
09:29
with my xterm
09:29
it hasnt rebooted yet
09:29
its not gnome-*
09:34
nd gnome-session still crashes the system...
09:35
<alkisg>
did you reboot the client after running ltsp-update-image?
09:35
grep -r Exec /usr/share/xsessions/
09:35
This tells you what to run
09:35
It's not just "gnome-session"
09:37
<nahoskins>
yeah i was looking there
09:37
no gnome-flashback there though
09:37
when i update ltsp.conf i have to update image?
09:37
no right
09:37
that wouldnt make sense
09:38
the client has rebooted a half dozen times since i updated the image
09:38
<alkisg>
Try to start pasting the command output here, it helps a lot...
09:38
Run that grep on your server
09:38
<nahoskins>
i know man
09:38
let me get into the browser irc on the server
09:40codetuna has joined IRC (codetuna!4093544c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.147.84.76)
09:40
<codetuna>
ello ello
09:40
<alkisg>
Hello coding fish
09:41
<nahoskins>
grep -r Exec /usr/share/xsessions/
09:42
<codetuna>
ok
09:42
so it doesnt like me pasting in here
09:42
<nahoskins>
installing weechat
09:42FGXR6 has left IRC (FGXR6!~phantom@ppp121-44-36-166.lns20.syd4.internode.on.net, Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
09:43
<alkisg>
Select with the mouse the text, and then come here and press *middle* mouse click
09:43
it's the quick copy/paste for linux...
09:43
And it even works over VNC
09:43nahoskins1 has joined IRC (nahoskins1!~nahoskins@64.147.84.76)
09:43
<nahoskins1>
hello
09:43
<alkisg>
(12:43:03 μμ) alkisg: Select with the mouse the text, and then come here and press *middle* mouse click
09:43
<nahoskins1>
/usr/share/xsessions/gnome-fallback.desktop:Exec=gnome-session --session=gnome-fallback /usr/share/xsessions/gnome-fallback.desktop:TryExec=gnome
09:43
<alkisg>
And does your client also have that?
09:44codetuna has left IRC (codetuna!4093544c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.147.84.76, Client Quit)
09:44
<alkisg>
So you see the line to run from the xterm is, gnome-session --session=gnome-fallback
09:44
<nahoskins1>
/usr/share/xsessions/gnome-fallback.desktop:Exec=gnome-session --session=gnome-fallback
09:44
<alkisg>
But you shouldn't need to launch an xterm
09:44
<nahoskins1>
/usr/share/xsessions/gnome-fallback.desktop:TryExec=gnome-session
09:44
/usr/share/xsessions/gnome.desktop:Exec=gnome-session --session=ubuntu
09:44
/usr/share/xsessions/gnome.desktop:TryExec=gnome-session
09:44
/usr/share/xsessions/ubuntu.desktop:Exec=gnome-session --session=ubuntu
09:44
/usr/share/xsessions/ubuntu.desktop:TryExec=unity
09:44
/usr/share/xsessions/gnome-classic.desktop:Exec=gnome-session --session=gnome-classic
09:44
/usr/share/xsessions/gnome-classic.desktop:TryExec=gnome-session
09:44
/usr/share/xsessions/ubuntu-2d.desktop:Exec=gnome-session --session=ubuntu-2d
09:44
/usr/share/xsessions/ubuntu-2d.desktop:TryExec=unity-2d-panel
09:44
/usr/share/xsessions/gnome-shell.desktop:Exec=gnome-session --session=gnome
09:44
/usr/share/xsessions/gnome-shell.desktop:TryExec=gnome-shell
09:44
ok
09:44
<alkisg>
!pastebin
09:44
<ltsp>
pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
09:45
<nahoskins1>
yeah, my bad
09:45
more than it looked
09:45
failed to lad session
09:46
if i dont pick xterm fallback
09:46
it crashes
09:47
<alkisg>
Did you uncomment the LDM_SESSION I was talking about?
09:47gdi2k has left IRC (gdi2k!~gdi2k@203.177.248.238, Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
09:49
<nahoskins1>
ah
09:49
I did
09:49
but.. it isn't now
09:50
rebooting
09:51
crash
09:51
and burn
09:53
is there anything i need to restart after editing that file
09:53
it flashes the desktop
09:53
and crashes
09:54
<alkisg>
No you don't need to restart anything
09:54
Uncomment SCREEN_02 and SCREEN_07 in lts.conf
09:54
Then reboot the client
09:54
<nahoskins1>
yeah already tried that
09:54
rebooting now
09:55
<alkisg>
Then do this from the client, but in 5 minutes, I have other VNCs open now:
09:55
<nahoskins1>
ok
09:55
<alkisg>
!vnc
09:55
<ltsp>
I do not know about 'vnc', but I do know about these similar topics: 'x11vnc', 'kvm-vnc', 'vnc-plinet', 'vnc-alkisg', 'vnc-dide'
09:55
<alkisg>
!vnc-dide
09:55
<ltsp>
vnc-dide: To share your screen with me, run this: sudo apt-get --yes install x11vnc; x11vnc -connect srv1-dide.ioa.sch.gr - this is a reverse connection, it doesn't need port forwarding etc.
09:55
<alkisg>
The installation from screen 02, the command from screen 07
09:55FGXR6 has joined IRC (FGXR6!~phantom@ppp121-44-36-166.lns20.syd4.internode.on.net)
09:56gdi2k has joined IRC (gdi2k!~gdi2k@203.177.251.132)
09:57
<nahoskins1>
yeah except i cant sude
09:57
sudo*
09:57
<alkisg>
in screen_02 you are root
09:57
<nahoskins1>
oh shit
09:57
i am
09:58
cant find vnc
09:58
updating
10:00
connecting
10:00
ah
10:00
no x display
10:04
<nahoskins>
why wont it load x
10:09* alkisg is supporting someone else now, please wait...
10:15
<alkisg>
Hmm that's a hard one, ubiquity fails to detect the disk partitions... nahoskins, sorry it looks like work won't let me help you today
10:16
<nahoskins1>
hey no prob
10:16gdi2k has left IRC (gdi2k!~gdi2k@203.177.251.132, Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
10:16
<nahoskins1>
you've already helped
10:24alkisg is now known as work_alkisg
10:36gvy has left IRC (gvy!~mike@altlinux/developer/mike, Quit: Leaving)
10:36
<nahoskins1>
so awesome totally works
10:36
im guessing if i set the server to use awesome
10:36
rebuild the image
10:36
etc
10:36
i might come out of this darkness
10:37
WTF
10:37
it... is working
10:38
i ran awesome
10:38
and now
10:38
im logged in
10:38
and unity is sat here
10:38
as if it hasnt been leaving a mess all over the floor
10:38
nevermind.. it crashed
10:38
... wtf
10:40
i wonder
10:40
if its the switch..
10:46groeg has joined IRC (groeg!~georg@dslb-188-099-220-160.188.099.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
10:49nahoskins1 has left IRC (nahoskins1!~nahoskins@64.147.84.76, Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
10:51nahoskins1 has joined IRC (nahoskins1!~nahoskins@64.147.84.76)
11:20Faith has joined IRC (Faith!~paty@unaffiliated/faith)
11:21
<nahoskins>
any chance. at all. that the problems I'm having with intermittent restarts... have something to do with a lousy connection
11:22
maybe.. when it tries to load things
11:22AlexPortable has joined IRC (AlexPortable!uid7568@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xlfgdoumwbuhlrcj)
11:22
<nahoskins>
i dunno... im too tired at this point
11:22
going to focus on a workaround with awesome
11:32
it managed to freeze on this error this time
11:32
plymouthd ply terminal assertion terminal != ((void *)0) failed
11:32
dunno if that gives a clue
11:32
im packing it in
11:32
thank you to everyone for helping
11:32
amazing sense of support
11:32
really appreciate it
11:32
great work you're doing
11:32
keep it up
11:32
peace and love from Bermuda
11:36nahoskins1 has left IRC (nahoskins1!~nahoskins@64.147.84.76, Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
11:46nahoskins has left IRC (nahoskins!~nahoskins@64.147.84.76, Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
11:58spectra_ has joined IRC (spectra_!~spectra@63.142.251.150)
11:59spectra has left IRC (spectra!~spectra@debian/developer/spectra, *.net *.split)
12:26andygraybeal has left IRC (andygraybeal!~andy@h3.63.188.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net, Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
13:19kwmiebach has left IRC (kwmiebach!sid16855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-msppsyvhkswyleru, )
13:20kwmiebach has joined IRC (kwmiebach!sid16855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cugvnrqytgzmuzqj)
13:22gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host86-145-193-74.range86-145.btcentralplus.com, Remote host closed the connection)
13:25gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host86-145-193-74.range86-145.btcentralplus.com)
13:26gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host86-145-193-74.range86-145.btcentralplus.com, Remote host closed the connection)
13:26gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host86-145-193-74.range86-145.btcentralplus.com)
13:27andygraybeal has joined IRC (andygraybeal!~andy@h104.60.88.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net)
13:40gbaman_ has joined IRC (gbaman_!~gbaman@217.33.127.174)
13:44gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@host86-145-193-74.range86-145.btcentralplus.com, Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
13:45telex has left IRC (telex!teletype@freeshell.de, Remote host closed the connection)
13:46telex has joined IRC (telex!~telex@freeshell.de)
13:50adrianorg has left IRC (adrianorg!~adrianorg@177.156.61.199, Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
13:52adrianorg has joined IRC (adrianorg!~adrianorg@179.187.29.137.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br)
14:34championofcyrodi has joined IRC (championofcyrodi!~cott@50-205-35-98-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
14:35
<championofcyrodi>
when i back up the img file for nbd, how to i restore it while also updating the checksum ltsp uses to determine the image is the latest for clients?
14:44vagrantc has joined IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@unaffiliated/vagrantc)
14:48groeg has left IRC (groeg!~georg@dslb-188-099-220-160.188.099.pools.vodafone-ip.de, Quit: Verlassend)
15:17
<gbaman_>
When LTSP starts up a fat client, does it do anything fancy with /etc/ssh?
15:18
Playing around a bit with rewriting part of PiNet and having a weird issue where LDM fails to start up. I noticed there is an error message on startup of ssh keys missing, yet they are there on the server side?
15:23
<championofcyrodi>
gbaman_: as far as i know, ssh isnt used until a user attempts to log in.
15:23
at which point the /home/<user> folder is mounted via sshfs
15:23
<gbaman_>
I was of the assumption that LDM will fail to start if it can't initiate an SSH connection to the server?
15:24
<championofcyrodi>
LDM wont start until the user logs in
15:24
so yea
15:24
basically, if you can't ssh to the server, you can't get past the log in screen
15:24
<gbaman_>
Isn't LDM the login screen?
15:25
<championofcyrodi>
no, LDM is the desktop manager
15:25
<gbaman_>
I am not even getting the login screen
15:25
<championofcyrodi>
*display manager
15:25
what command did you use to build the fat client?
15:26
<vagrantc>
gbaman_: the ssh host keys for the client are probably purged when creating the image.
15:27
<gbaman_>
vagrantc: The same error though is not present when installing PiNet the normal way
15:27
<vagrantc>
otherwise you'd be exporting private key material over the network
15:27
what way is abnormal, and what way is normal?
15:28
<gbaman_>
Well, this is me moving PiNet to Python (away from bash). Something has failed along the way of building the client image with Python
15:28
So trying to figure out what
15:30
This any help? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1122948/temp/Photo%2003-07-2015%2016%2027%2057.jpg
15:31
<vagrantc>
wow.
15:31
that looks like something is messed up in the check for a new NBD image
15:32
<gbaman_>
So something up with the NBD config?
15:33
<vagrantc>
nah, that's a red herring, i think
15:33
ok, you're running ldm manually ... which likely doesn't have some environment set
15:34
what's in lts.conf ?
15:34
do you have SCREEN_02=shell ?
15:34
that will disable LDM...
15:35
you need to specify SCREEN_02=shell and SCREEN_07=ldm if you want both
15:35
<gbaman_>
Nope, not in there
15:36
All it has is http://pastebin.com/y20NEMhV
15:37
<work_alkisg>
gbaman_: ldm doesn't run without some env vars set
15:38
So, you cannot run it like # ldm
15:38
It needs to run from the startup scripts
15:38
That's why you get the segmentation fault, there's a launchpad bug report about it which basically advices not to do that
15:38
<vagrantc>
gbaman_: . /usr/share/ltsp/screen.d/ldm
15:39
<work_alkisg>
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/685272
15:39
<gbaman_>
Ah now that worked vagrantc..
15:39
Now why didn't start run on startup?
15:39
<work_alkisg>
getltscfg -a
15:39
That should tell you why...
15:40
<vagrantc>
gbaman_: is that paste from the client, or the server?
15:40
<gbaman_>
And it also logged in fine...
15:40
Server
15:40
<vagrantc>
gbaman_: see what you have in lts.conf on the client.
15:40
<work_alkisg>
and, cat /etc/X11/default-display-manager
15:41
<vagrantc>
gbaman_: is your python script running ltsp-build-client, or is it trying to replace it?
15:41
<gbaman_>
So it did log in, but LXDE got a little confused
15:41
But that's another issue for later
15:43
work_alkisg: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1122948/temp/Photo%2003-07-2015%2016%2042%2023.jpg
15:44
and vagrantc, default-display-manager has /usr/sbin/ldm
15:45
<vagrantc>
gbaman_: is your python script running ltsp-build-client, or is it trying to replace it?
15:45
<gbaman_>
It runs it
15:46
That bit is setup to basically just run bash lines from Python :)
15:46
But most of the rest of it is native Python
15:49
<work_alkisg>
what does the client screen look like on normal boot? it drops you to a shell?
15:49
<gbaman_>
Yeah
15:49
<work_alkisg>
Without any SCREENS? that doesn't sound right...
15:49
and no error messages?
15:50
<gbaman_>
No error messages. Screen 1 and 7 both have the same on them
15:50* vagrantc wonders what "cat /proc/cmdline" shows
15:51
<gbaman_>
Well, cmdline.txt on the Pi SD card is exactly the same as normal PiNet
15:55
Nothing out of the ordinary in /proc/cmdline
15:56
<work_alkisg>
is that with systemd?
15:58
<gbaman_>
What do you mean?
15:59
<work_alkisg>
is your distribution using systemd or sysvinit?
16:00
what is managing the screens? /etc/inittab or systemd?
16:00
<gbaman_>
Ohh right, the older one
16:00
Still based on Wheezy
16:00
So sysvinit
16:01
<work_alkisg>
and what are the contents of /etc/inittab?
16:01
do they match what you see?
16:05
<gbaman_>
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1122948/temp/Photo%2003-07-2015%2017%2003%2018.jpg
16:09
work_alkisg and vagrantc: Thanks, will give it a go again on Monday, gota head off
16:14gbaman_ has left IRC (gbaman_!~gbaman@217.33.127.174, Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
16:16growland has left IRC (growland!~growland@corp.heavyhammer.com, Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
16:17growland has joined IRC (growland!~growland@corp.heavyhammer.com)
16:28vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@unaffiliated/vagrantc, Quit: leaving)
16:59growland has left IRC (growland!~growland@corp.heavyhammer.com, Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
17:07Freejack has left IRC (Freejack!~Freejack@unaffiliated/freejack, Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
17:13growland has joined IRC (growland!~growland@corp.heavyhammer.com)
17:19Freejack has joined IRC (Freejack!~Freejack@unaffiliated/freejack)
20:12gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@dab-crx1-h-88-3.dab.02.net)
20:18gbaman_ has joined IRC (gbaman_!~gbaman@dab-crx1-h-88-1.dab.02.net)
20:22gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@dab-crx1-h-88-3.dab.02.net, Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
20:23gbaman has joined IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@dab-crx1-h-88-9.dab.02.net)
20:24gbaman_ has left IRC (gbaman_!~gbaman@dab-crx1-h-88-1.dab.02.net, Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
20:26Faith has left IRC (Faith!~paty@unaffiliated/faith, Quit: Saindo)
20:34uXus has left IRC (uXus!~uXus@217.77.222.72, Remote host closed the connection)
20:49ricotz has left IRC (ricotz!~rico@ubuntu/member/ricotz, Quit: Ex-Chat)
21:07gbaman has left IRC (gbaman!~gbaman@dab-crx1-h-88-9.dab.02.net, Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
21:39nahoskins has joined IRC (nahoskins!~nahoskins@64.147.84.76)
22:16telex has left IRC (telex!~telex@freeshell.de, Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:18telex has joined IRC (telex!teletype@freeshell.de)
23:13nahoskins has left IRC (nahoskins!~nahoskins@64.147.84.76, Ping timeout: 276 seconds)